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Date:         Fri, 6 Feb 1998 04:04:35 -0500

From:        

 "L-Soft list server at The City University of NY (1.8c)"              <LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Subject:      File: "BEAT-L LOG9801"

To:           Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 23:36:06 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Some Dharma 1997

In-Reply-To:  <4137cc00.34aacba7@aol.com>

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>I am not real sure i see the humor in the monks chanting for the souls of the

>chickens. Explain, please?

>                           GT

 

Wish I could provide more details, but my understanding is that the monks

released many, many fish back into the sea as a spiritual attonment for the

slaughtering of the chickens. Read a note that they released a ship's catch

of fish. Many hundreds of them.

 

Here in Madison it will be 1998 in 20 minutes.

 

My best to you all in the new year.

 

Peace and justice,

 

j grant

 

                    HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

                             Details  on-line at

                                 http://www.bookzen.com

                      625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 02:27:04 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>

Subject:      Happy New Year

Comments: To: Rounders List <hmr@olywa.net>,

          Loudon List <loudon@world.std.com>,

          Irene Apalsch <momandmike@juno.com>,

          John D Barton <jdbarton@unm.edu>,

          Linda Beck <beckl@milwaukee.tec.wi.us>,

          Jim D Deuchars <deuchars@juno.com>, Mary Gardner <rgardner@up.net>,

          Bryan Kanieski <JKanieski@aol.com>, Gary Maynard <manog@aol.com>,

          George Maynard <chjm47f@prodigy.com>,

          Hudson Maynard <maynard5@olypen.com>,

          Jack C Maynard <chjm47a@prodigy.com>,

          Jackie Maynard <maynardj@ucs.orst.edu>,

          Chris Mooney <cmooney@wvu.edu>, Jodie Mooney <jodie@calkinslaw.com>,

          Fritz Schuler <goldenrg@lakefield.net>,

          Bob Weeth <BWEETH@CENTURYINTER.NET>, Sarah Westbrook <smm@flash.net>,

          Ann Wichmann <wichmann@co.dane.wi.us>

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Good morning, America, how are ya?

 

Just got home from a wonderful gathering of friends, singing in the new

year with guitars, mandolins, fiddle, washboard, harmonica, and conga dru=

m,

laughing, eating, talking, telling stories, and sharing the warmth of

loving friendship with each other.  At midnight we all hugged and kissed

and sang "Auld Lang Syne"...starting out with tongue slightly in cheek, b=

ut

by the end the beauty of that fine old Scots song transcended the clich=E9

and drew us all together.  And one and all were so sweet, assuring me tha=

t

1998 was going to be a much better year for me.  I can't think of a nicer

way I would have wanted to spend tonight.

 

Wishing all of you, far and wide, the very best of everything in 1998!

 

Love,

 

Jym

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 10:21:24 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      BRION GYSIN (WAS Re: Permutation poems)

In-Reply-To:  <da18fc3c.34a97634@aol.com>

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At 17.31 30/12/97 EST, Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM> wrote:

>what the heck is a permutation poem? help! i really don't know very much

about

>this sort of stuff and i hate not knowing things. can someone tell me what it

>is in non-technical (read---> layman's) terms and send me a copy of one?

>thanks so much.

>

here an example by brion gysin

http://switch.sjsu.edu/switch/sound/articles/wendt/folder4/ngbg1.htm

 

 

 

RUB OUT THE WRITE WORD

RUB OUT RIGHT WORD THEE

RUB OUT WORD RITE THEE

RUB OUT THE WORD RIGHT

RUB OUT RIGHT THE WORD

RUB OUT WORD THEE WRITE

 

RUB OUT THE WORD RIGHT OUT

RUB THE RIGHT OUT WORD

RUB THE OUT WORD RIGHT

        WORD OUT RIGHT

        RIGHT WORD OUT

        OUT RIGHT WORD

 

RUB WORD RIGHT OUT THE

RUB WORD OUT RIGHT THE

RUB WORD THE RIGHT OUT

         RIGHT THE OUT

         OUT THE RIGHT

         THE OUT RIGHT

 

WORD RUB THE RIGHT OUT

     RUB RIGHT OUT THE

         OUT RIGHT THE

         THE OUT RIGHT

         RIGHT THE OUT

         OUT THE RIGHT

 

WORD RIGHT RUB THE OUT

               THE

               OUT

               RUB

               THE

               OUT

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 09:50:03 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: BeatSuperNovaUpdated

In-Reply-To:  <aa5eb9fe.34aabde5@aol.com>

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Buon 1 gennaio 1988,

thanks a lot for yr comments. they remain in my memory.

 

        "My works comprises one vast book like

        Proust's except that my remembrances are

        written on the run instead of afterwards in

        a sick bed."---JACK KEROUAC

 

saluti a tutti voi da

Rinaldo.

---------------------

At 16.49 31/12/97 EST, Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM> wrote:

>maybe i missed him, but i don't remember seeing rimbaud on there. i think he

>deserves to be on there as much as any of those people. and what about marcel

>proust? saroyan?

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 11:56:25 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Hpark4 <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Fact, fiction, flags and Mudd

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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The other night I watched the series on the 1950's  (on tape) presented by the

History Channel.  Overall, quite interesting.  It was loosely based on David

Halberstam's book, The Fifties.

 

The next to last segment of the eight hour series focused on Elvis, and on the

Beat Generation.  Pretty good stuff - interviews with Joyce Johnson and Allen

Ginsberg among others.  At the very end of the segment, host Roger Mudd

commented that Kerouac differed from many of the Beats because he

disassociated himself from the "rampant anti-Americanism of the 1960's".  Then

he added, "Kerouac appeared at a rally where Allen Ginsberg was passing out

American flags to be burned.  Kerouac retreved the flags and neatly folded

them."

 

!! W H A T !!  This is pure bullshit that Mudd probably heard at a right-wing

cocktail party and then passed on, via national television, to millions of

people.  None of the many biographers (about 10) of Kerouac or Ginsberg ever

described anything like this flag burning rally.  Instead, the source for

Mudd's fantasy undoubtedly is the often described incedent when Ken Kesey and

the Merry Pranksters paid Kerouac a visit in 1964.  Amidst the partying of the

Pranksters, Kerouac did notice an American flag lying around (perhaps the

floor, or on a chair or couch).  The flag was probably being used as a scarf

or cape by one of the colorful Pranksters, something that was uncommon in

1964.  Kerouac considered this disrespectful and he did neatly fold the flag

and set it aside.  He left shortly thereafter and was never a fan of the

Pranksters.  Various biographers have different spins on the incident, but

what the foregoing is pretty much the consensus as reported by eyewitnesses.

 

I don't know if Allen Ginsberg ever was into burning flags.  I doubt it, given

his lifelong sense for PR and the fact that flag burning was outlawed until

the 1980's.

 

What should be outlawed (not that it is possible to outlaw stupidity) is

highly paid "reporters" like Mudd who have less regard for the facts than used

toilet paper.  He can spin history anyway he wants but to report an incident

based on sheer fantasy is something else entirely.

 

Does anyone know where I could write Mudd,  Halberstam, or the History

Channel?

 

Howard Park

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 19:02:20 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      afternoon blues today

In-Reply-To:  <aa5eb9fe.34aabde5@aol.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

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        i called you at 11 pm

        (sure)

        the cold (of course)

 

        persons

        don't know

 

        the sound is an antithief device

        than

        a carol

 

        be happy! BE HAPPY!!

 

---

rinaldo

31thdec98

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 11:00:44 +0000

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Sorry

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Bentz--Happy new year.  What did I warn you about?  You are welcome to

all the bandwidth you ant!

 

James

 

R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

 

> Sorry

>

> I knew it.

> James warned me.

> But anyway,

> I still blew it.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 10:51:35 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         marie countyman <mcountyman@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      happy holidays and a good year to all

Content-Type: text/plain

 

hi all:

my 1998 is going to be a kickass one, it is starting out, or i should

say it started back in 87 when i got off the train and leon was there to

greet me!

adventures abound.

expect some stuff after i get home. whhooooeeee.

marie

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 11:03:41 +0000

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: BeatSuperNovaUpdated

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> AT that rate why not Villon?

 

How far to extend this is Rinaldo's problem, thank god

 

James

 

> At 16.49 31/12/97 EST, Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM> wrote:

> >maybe i missed him, but i don't remember seeing rimbaud on there. i think he

> >deserves to be on there as much as any of those people. and what about marcel

> >proust? saroyan?

> >

> >

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 11:01:28 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         marie countyman <mcountyman@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: ho ho holicay

Content-Type: text/plain

 

dear patricia, we will keep the hugs rolling. leon here too - lots of

hugging to do.

the best of the best to you!

mc

 

>

>I am envious of you all, getting together in calif , sherri give marie

a

>hug, james, give sherri  a hug.  etc. my self i usually don't hug but

if

>i see david on his way back to salina i will give him a hug.  We have

>been warned to watch out for beat zen signs so, i will watch out, eager

>always to advance the warpage of an old religion. I am not sure that i

>see zen in catholicism but it is probaly every and nowhere. so also i

>will watch out in case jacks catholic whims start invading my

>conciousness.

>kick your heels

>patricia

>

 

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 14:59:02 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Czarnecki <peent@SERVTECH.COM>

Subject:      Re: happy holidays and a good year to all

Mime-Version: 1.0

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>hi all:

>my 1998 is going to be a kickass one, it is starting out, or i should

>say it started back in 87 when i got off the train and leon was there to

>greet me!

>adventures abound.

>expect some stuff after i get home. whhooooeeee.

>marie

 

 

Did you notice you wrote 87 in the above? Now, I know you haven't been out

there 10 years already! As for myself, I keep seeing 1998 and thinking

that's not right, it's supposed to be 88.

 

Yes, a year full of adventure, creativity and growth for everyone!

 

Michael

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 15:20:06 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         NICO 88 <NICO88@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Fact, fiction, flags and Mudd

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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Howard---

                       im sure the Hist.Channel has email, ya know? like,

"comments@historychannel.com" or something. perhapsjust watch for their

advertisements or something. not too hard to find, im sure.  that was the 1

episode i missed of that series.  :(

-Ginny

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 15:37:42 -0500

Reply-To:     blackj@bigmagic.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Al Aronowitz <blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>

Subject:      Re: Question

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R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

>

> Jack Kerouac and Thomas Wolfe have been criticized for being story

> tellers, or just writing down what happened.  It seems to me that there

> is a large element of fiction involved, more than most would like to

> see, but it all is based on reality.

>

> My question is this, my life and the lifes of most people I know have

> some exciting moments, but generally are full of daily routine.  If

> Jack's work is mostly autobiographical, that is actually just telling

> what happened, wouldn't that take a writer of greater statute to be able

> to make everyday life so full, so true and such an inspiration.  I think

> it would, because he would have to actually see, and not imagine.  What

> do you think?

>

> --

>

> Peace,

>

> Bentz

> bocelts@scsn.net

> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

BENTZ:  It's taken me a long time to reply to this E but of course Jack

was a great writer who could endow his words with magic.  And what's

wrong with being a story-teller.  Our greatest writers are nothing but

story-tellers.  I'd rather read a story than a stock proposal.  I know

Jack wrote what he saw and felt.  He had the same kind of dedication to

truth that I now have.  --Al

--

***************************************

Al Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST

http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 15:48:57 -0500

Reply-To:     blackj@bigmagic.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Al Aronowitz <blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>

Subject:      Re: Ginsberg interview

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R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

>

> I don't recall seeing this posted to the Beat-L before, but I thought

> this was a cool discussion of Dylan's impact on Allen by Allen.  Notice

> that darned ole Charles Plymell was right in the middle of this thing.

> I got this off an old post to the Dylan list.

>

> >  Q:  Can you tell us how you met Bob Dylan and

> >   what your earliest impressions of him were?

> >

> >   AG:  My earliest impressions of Dylan were, uh,

> >   on returning from India...  My earliest

> >   impressions of Dylan were, on returning from

> >   India via San Francisco, a young poet, Charlie

> >   Plimel[?], took me aside at a party in Belinas[?]

> >   and played me some records from a new young

> >   singer, folk singer, and it was the "Masters of

> >   War," I think, and "I'll Stand," uh, "I'll Know

> >   My Song Well Before I Start Singing," and "I'll

> >   Stand on the Sea Where All Can Reflect or

> >   Mountain Where All Can Reflect It."  And I was

> >   really amazed.  It seemed to me that the torch

> >   had been passed, sort of, from, uh, Kerouac or

> >   from the, uh, beat, uh, genius on to another

> >   generation completely, who had taken it, uh, and

> >   he'd taken it and made something completely

> >   original out of it, and that life was in good

> >   hands.  I remember bursting into tears.  Because

> >   the, uh, proclamation of confidence was so

> >   certain and, uh, the, uh, humility was apparent,

> >   and at the same time the confidence in, uh, his

> >   own voice or his own inspiration, which is, I

> >   think, some of the secret of genius which is, uh,

> >   like in Whitman:  "I celebrate myself and sing

> >   myself.  What I shall assume, you shall assume."

> >   That confidence of self-acceptance, or

> >   self-empowerment, the empowerment.  Uh, so I

> >   heard just that first record, and I was pretty

> >   amazed by it.  Then, uh, cause, you know, we had

> >   learned from earlier people.  I had learned from

> >   William Carlos Williams and  William Burroughs,

> >   who was much older, and, uh, every generation

> >   produces its own spontaneous genius, sort of.  So

> >   it seemed to me that somebody had emerged with

> >   their own, out of cocoon, with their own life,

> >   with their own scepter, so to speak.  Then, uh, I

> >   got to New York with Peter Orlovsky, and we were

> >   staying at the, it's, uh, above, upstairs from

> >   the Eighth Street Bookstore, which was at that

> >   time a big, interesting, intelligent bookstore, Uh, really

> >   admirable -for, for, for journalism it was a

> >   really well-researched and even piece at a time

> >   when, uh, the notion, the journalistic idea was

> >   beatniks, it was cockroaches, and, uh, dirty

> >   houses and uh, some idiot, uh, media idea

> >   ignoring the literature and ignoring the actual

> >   brilliance of the people like Kerouac or

> >   Burroughs or Gary Snyder or others.  So in '59,

> >   Aronowitz had written a very good series.  And

> >   he'd actually gone to the West Coast, interviewed

> >   Michael McClure, Neal Cassidy, uh, the poet Gary

> >   Snyder I think, or friends of Snyder, Snyder was

> >   in Japan.  Maybe Philip Whalen he saw and uh,

> >   McClure turned him on to some grass which

> >   enriched his account of, uh, serialized account

> >   of the poets.  So Aronowitz I had known for four

> >   or five years and Aronowitz brought Dylan to a

> >   welcome party.  Peter and I had been around the

> >   world actually and spent a year and a half in

> >   India.  And I'd spent some time in Japan in a Zen

> >   setting with Gary Snyder and then come back to a

> >   big poetry conference in Vancouver and then spent

> >   time in San Francisco, heard Dylan on the radio,

> >   on the phonograph and then got to New York, got a

> >   welcome home party and that was the night that

> >   Dylan had come from the Emergency Civil Liberties

> >   Committee banquet and had renounced any role as

> >   sort of a political prophet for them, and that is

> >   a left wing, uh, what, folk, uh, fighter for

> >   causes.  I don't think he wanted to be limited to

> >   that view and that perspective.  And so I

> >   remember coming up the stairs and meeting him and

> >   I was really interested, because I'd seen, heard

> >   his language.  And he was kind of mysterious, but

> >   one of the first things he said is he had

> >   explained, uh, uh, he had not obeyed what their

> >   idea was and they were shocked and horrified.

> >   But he felt that he had to make his own statement

> >   and have his own independence rather than being a

> >   replica of, uh, folk song hero, conforming to

> >   their expectations as somebody in, responding to

> >   every civil liberties case, every case of

> >   discrimination, every strike, the traditional

> >   sing outs, folk music, left wing party line.  And

> >   I thought it was pretty smart of him, though, he

> >   may have not had the skillful means to do it in

> >   which a way that encouraged them to do what they

> >   wanted to do

> >

>

> --

>

> Peace,

>

> Bentz

> bocelts@scsn.net

> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

BENTZ:  Yeah, I was t he invisible man in those days, working behind the

scenes to pull everyone of like minds together.  I was invisible so they

all overlooked me, took me for granted and eventually were too quick to

write me off.   --Al

--

***************************************

Al Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST

http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 17:07:47 -0500

Reply-To:     "eastwind@erols.com"@erols.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "D. Patrick Hornberger" <"eastwind@erols.com"@EROLS.COM>

Organization: EASTWIND PUBLISHING

Subject:      Re: Fact, fiction, flags and Mudd

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Hpark4 wrote:

>

> The other night I watched the series on the 1950's  (on tape) presented by the

> History Channel.  Overall, quite interesting.  It was loosely based on David

> Halberstam's book, The Fifties.

>

> The next to last segment of the eight hour series focused on Elvis, and on the

> Beat Generation.  Pretty good stuff - interviews with Joyce Johnson and Allen

> Ginsberg among others.  At the very end of the segment, host Roger Mudd

> commented that Kerouac differed from many of the Beats because he

> disassociated himself from the "rampant anti-Americanism of the 1960's".  Then

> he added, "Kerouac appeared at a rally where Allen Ginsberg was passing out

> American flags to be burned.  Kerouac retreved the flags and neatly folded

> them."

>

> !! W H A T !!  This is pure bullshit that Mudd probably heard at a right-wing

> cocktail party and then passed on, via national television, to millions of

> people.  None of the many biographers (about 10) of Kerouac or Ginsberg ever

> described anything like this flag burning rally.  Instead, the source for

> Mudd's fantasy undoubtedly is the often described incedent when Ken Kesey and

> the Merry Pranksters paid Kerouac a visit in 1964.  Amidst the partying of the

> Pranksters, Kerouac did notice an American flag lying around (perhaps the

> floor, or on a chair or couch).  The flag was probably being used as a scarf

> or cape by one of the colorful Pranksters, something that was uncommon in

> 1964.  Kerouac considered this disrespectful and he did neatly fold the flag

> and set it aside.  He left shortly thereafter and was never a fan of the

> Pranksters.  Various biographers have different spins on the incident, but

> what the foregoing is pretty much the consensus as reported by eyewitnesses.

>

> I don't know if Allen Ginsberg ever was into burning flags.  I doubt it, given

> his lifelong sense for PR and the fact that flag burning was outlawed until

> the 1980's.

>

> What should be outlawed (not that it is possible to outlaw stupidity) is

> highly paid "reporters" like Mudd who have less regard for the facts than used

> toilet paper.  He can spin history anyway he wants but to report an incident

> based on sheer fantasy is something else entirely.

>

> Does anyone know where I could write Mudd,  Halberstam, or the History

> Channel?

>

> Howard Park

Hold On --it seems to me Ginsberg told that story some place --- I would

be careful drawing quick conclusions on JK when it come to

Patriotism--actually the event and JK's response sounds like him---

anti-patriotism was not a paert of beats ---anti-government was.

Let me know if you find the Ginsberg reference

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 17:23:56 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bigsurs4me <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Fact, fiction, flags and Mudd

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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Steve Turner's Angel Headed Hipster on page 200 has a few photo's of Jack

wearing the flag bandana around his neck while smoking a joint and looking

very goofy and out of it. The photo is credited to Ron Bevirt who I believe

was one of the Pranksters and is dated June 1964, New York.  In one of the

photo's you can see what appears to be a movie camera on a tri-pod.  As Kesey

filmed a lot of that trip I wonder if video exists of that party?

 

Jerry Cimino

Fog City

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 17:25:41 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Some Dharma 1997

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i didn't mean that the monks' chants were humourous, but that it was a funny

coincidence that i heard about it from you right after i had just heard about

it on the news.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 17:41:51 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Question

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i don't understand why they should be criticized for being strytellers or

'just writing down the facts'. both of those are good things.the ability to

tell a good story is great for the heart head and bottom line.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 17:59:45 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Some Dharma 1997

In-Reply-To:  <v0311070ab0d0cd18d7e4@[156.46.45.120]>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I saw a picture of a monk heaving fish into the sea.  I

like the verisimilitude of it.  A few foul off the earth,

a few fish cast into the sea.  The monks had the right idea.

It adds a funny twist to an already somewhat funny story, of

orientals driven into a chicken-killing frenzy by a malignant

disease that is threatening their lives!  To add a religious

element to this is to put icing on the cake.

 

Mike Rice

 

At 11:36 PM 12/31/97 -0500, you wrote:

>>I am not real sure i see the humor in the monks chanting for the souls of

the

>>chickens. Explain, please?

>>                           GT

>

>Wish I could provide more details, but my understanding is that the monks

>released many, many fish back into the sea as a spiritual attonment for the

>slaughtering of the chickens. Read a note that they released a ship's catch

>of fish. Many hundreds of them.

>

>Here in Madison it will be 1998 in 20 minutes.

>

>My best to you all in the new year.

>

>Peace and justice,

>

>j grant

>

>                    HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

>                             Details  on-line at

>                                 http://www.bookzen.com

>                      625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 17:54:52 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Hpark4 <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Fact, fiction, flags and Mudd

Comments: cc: eastwind@erols.com

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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In response to Mr. Hornberger -

 

The point is pretty simple.  The incident Mr. Mudd described never happened.

Period.  Whet people make up or repeat stories that are untrue, for political

or other purposes, they should be held up to ridicule.

 

It is quite a stretch to equate the real episide - Kerouac's respect for the

flag he found at the Prankster party, with what Mudd described "Ginsberg was

at a rally passing out American flags to be burned..."  The two situations are

very, very different.

 

The real point of Mudd's fantasy is a very political one.  Mudd equates the

anti-war and counter-cultural movements with anti-americanism.  That still

resonates on many of the issues of today.  Certain right-wingers also accused

George McGovern, Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton of flag burning - without

any evidence whatsoever.  None.  Burning the flag is an anti-american action,

a very powerful symbolic action, especially for older generations.  What Mudd

was trying to get accross was that Allen Ginsberg, who can no longer speak for

himself, was some sort of flag burning commie.  That is simply untrue.

Ginsberg had the honor of being kicked out of Cuba and communist

Czechoslovakia.  Ginsberg loved America every bit as much as Kerouac, although

AG was undoubtedly way to the left of Kerouac and the American mainstream.

 

Again, I've read all the major bios of Kerouac, one of the most extensively

researched figures of the  recent past.  Nothing like the incident Mudd

described is in any of the bios.  Facts and truth do matter.

 

Howard Park

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 18:44:24 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Fact, fiction, flags and Mudd

In-Reply-To:  <3b18a2f9.34abcabb@aol.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

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Sure,  I wrote something like www.historychannel.com and said

I loved the Fifties.  I'm a little worried that you say you saw

the Fifties the other day, since my own TV schedule said they

were running the whole 8 hours today (Thurs) from 11 a.m. to

7 p.m. today.  I'm taping it while we speak.  I have heard

the story about Kerouac and the flag somewhere, also.  I

probably heard Mudd tell the story you find untrue.  Jack

wasn't a hippie, nor was he on the Bus.  I don't think it

hurts his legacy that he did not want to party with Wavy

Gravy.

 

Mike Rice

 

At 11:56 AM 1/1/98 EST, you wrote:

>The other night I watched the series on the 1950's  (on tape) presented by

the

>History Channel.  Overall, quite interesting.  It was loosely based on David

>Halberstam's book, The Fifties.

>

>The next to last segment of the eight hour series focused on Elvis, and on

the

>Beat Generation.  Pretty good stuff - interviews with Joyce Johnson and Allen

>Ginsberg among others.  At the very end of the segment, host Roger Mudd

>commented that Kerouac differed from many of the Beats because he

>disassociated himself from the "rampant anti-Americanism of the 1960's".

Then

>he added, "Kerouac appeared at a rally where Allen Ginsberg was passing out

>American flags to be burned.  Kerouac retreved the flags and neatly folded

>them."

>

>!! W H A T !!  This is pure bullshit that Mudd probably heard at a right-wing

>cocktail party and then passed on, via national television, to millions of

>people.  None of the many biographers (about 10) of Kerouac or Ginsberg ever

>described anything like this flag burning rally.  Instead, the source for

>Mudd's fantasy undoubtedly is the often described incedent when Ken Kesey and

>the Merry Pranksters paid Kerouac a visit in 1964.  Amidst the partying of

the

>Pranksters, Kerouac did notice an American flag lying around (perhaps the

>floor, or on a chair or couch).  The flag was probably being used as a scarf

>or cape by one of the colorful Pranksters, something that was uncommon in

>1964.  Kerouac considered this disrespectful and he did neatly fold the flag

>and set it aside.  He left shortly thereafter and was never a fan of the

>Pranksters.  Various biographers have different spins on the incident, but

>what the foregoing is pretty much the consensus as reported by eyewitnesses.

>

>I don't know if Allen Ginsberg ever was into burning flags.  I doubt it,

given

>his lifelong sense for PR and the fact that flag burning was outlawed until

>the 1980's.

>

>What should be outlawed (not that it is possible to outlaw stupidity) is

>highly paid "reporters" like Mudd who have less regard for the facts than

used

>toilet paper.  He can spin history anyway he wants but to report an incident

>based on sheer fantasy is something else entirely.

>

>Does anyone know where I could write Mudd,  Halberstam, or the History

>Channel?

>

>Howard Park

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 19:41:51 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Question

In-Reply-To:  <9066b870.34ac1bb2@aol.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

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At 05:41 PM 1/1/98 EST, you wrote:

>i don't understand why they should be criticized for being strytellers or

>'just writing down the facts'. both of those are good things.the ability to

>tell a good story is great for the heart head and bottom line.

>

>

Who is being cricized for being a storyteller.

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 20:06:25 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Re: Permutation poems (fwd)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

This was Florian's response, which I think people might find interesting.

Neil

 

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 17:13:01 +0100 (MET)

From: Florian Cramer <cantsin@zedat.fu-berlin.de>

To: "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject: Re: Permutation poems

 

On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, Neil M. Hennessy wrote:

 

> There are Gysin permutation poems in _The Exterminator_, which was

> published in 1960:

>

> TITLE: The exterminator / William Burroughs, Brion Gysin. -

> IMPRINT: San Francisco : Auerhahn Press, 1960.

> NOTES: Narrative and poems. * Poems and calligraphs by Brion Gysin.

> LANGUAGE: eng

> PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION: 51 p. : ill. ; 24 cm.

> ASSOCIATED NAME(S): Gysin, Brion. * Haselwood, Dave L. - Book designer. *

>           Haselwood, Dave L. - Printer. * McIlroy, James F. - Printer. *

>           Auerhahn Press - Private Press.

 

Thanks very much for this reference. I will check out immediately whether

I can get it here in Berlin.

 

>

> Can you give a reference where I could find information about this?

> The first book Burroughs wrote/assembled using fold-in texts-- _The Soft

> Machine_ -- appeared in 1961 from The Olympia Press in Paris.

 

Then I was mistaken. Marc Saporta's novel "Composition No.1" appeared in

1962, Paris, Editions du Seuil.

 

> Certainly does. The 100,000 sonnet book gets a lot of attention from

> people doing work on hypertext theory and literature. And yes, both

> Burroughs and Gysin were living in Paris in the early 60's.

 

I know there has been a lot of research on Oulipo (=Queneau, Perec et.al.)

combinatorics, but I wonder whether anyone has researched yet the

interrelatedness of Gysin's/Burroughs', Saporta's, Queneau's and Moles'

approaches to combinatory literature which all happened to be

conceptualized around 1960 and in France.

 

By the way, permutation poetry itself is much older than this. The

earliest examples date back to the late Roman empire (Publilius Optatianus

Porfyrius' Carmen XXV consists of five lines with each five words; the

words permute against each other and from line to line. Porfyrius lived in

the around 330 A.D.; his complete poems are published in a two volume

book: Pvblilii Optatiani Porfyrii, Carmina, Torino: Paravia publ., 1973.)

 

> Hope I've been of some assistance.

>

Thanks a lot for your help!

 

Florian

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 20:09:16 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Re: Permutation poems

In-Reply-To:  <da18fc3c.34a97634@aol.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, Aeronwytru wrote:

 

> what the heck is a permutation poem? help! i really don't know very much about

> this sort of stuff and i hate not knowing things. can someone tell me what it

> is in non-technical (read---> layman's) terms and send me a copy of one?

> thanks so much.

 

The easiest way to find out what a permutation poem is to read one. Here's

a Gysin permutation poem that appears in The Exterminator:

 

RUB    OUT    THE    WORDS

RUB    OUT    THE

WORDS  RUB    OUT

THE    WORDS  RUB

OUT    THE    WORDS

 

RUB    OUT    THE    WORDS

RUB    THE    WORDS  OUT

RUB    WORDS  THEE   OUT

RUB    OUT    WORDS  THEE

RUB    THE    OUT    WORDS

RUB    WORDS  OUT    THEE

 

OUT    THE    WORDS  RUB

OUT    WORDS  RUB    THEE

OUT    RUB    WORDS  THEE

OUT    THEE   RUB    WORDS

OUT    WORDS  RUB    THEE

OUT    RUB    THE    WORDS

 

THE    WORDS  RUB    OUT

THEE   RUB    WORDS  OUT

THE    OUT    RUB    WORDS

THE    WORDS  OUT    RUB

THE    RUB    OUT    WORDS

THE    OUT    WORDS  RUB

 

WORDS  RUB    OUT    THEE

WORDS  OUT    RUT    THEE

WORDS  THEE   OUT    RUB

WORDS  RUB    THEE   OUT

WORDS  OUT    THEE   RUB

WORDS  THEE   RUB    OUT

 

              Brion Gysin

 

And here's my favourite poem of this genre, which isn't really a

permutation poem per se, but a combninatorial one at the letter level. It

appeared in Nichol's first book bp from Coach House, 1967:

 

turnips are

inturps are

urnspit are

tinspur are

rustpin are

stunrip are

piturns are

ritpuns are

punstir are

nutrips are

suntrip are

untrips are

spinrut are

runspit are

pitnurs are

runtsip are

puntsir are

turnsip are

tipruns are

turpsin are

spurtin

 

      bpNichol

 

Although the modus operandi and overriding concerns of Burroughs/Gysin and

the concretists are often strikingly similar, their aims are widely

disparate. For Burroughs the word is a viral agent of control, and

language its medium of exchange. Cut-ups, collage, and gestural

calligraphy were all attempts at finding freedom outside of language, a

non-linguistic freedom in silence. Nichol was a self-professed lover of

language and alphabet fetishist with an interest in language at play in

all its forms: aural, semantic, tonal, visual. His work is more

investigative, irreverent and celebratory, while Burroughs was deadly

serious and perceived his work as dangerous, urgent and combative.

 

Just some random thoughts on different, compelling artists whose central

concern was language itself.

 

Cheers,

Neil

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 20:17:51 -0500

Reply-To:     "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@uwaterloo.ca>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Re: Permutation poems

Comments: cc: Florian Cramer <cantsin@zedat.fu-berlin.de>

In-Reply-To:  <da18fc3c.34a97634@aol.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

I've done a little looking into the permutation poems of Brion Gysin in

the source materials I have. Here is a preliminary report:

 

>From Ted Morgan's "Literary Outlaw": "Minutes to Go" was published in

March 1960 in Paris and included permutation poems by Gysin. The only

specific one mentioned is "Rub out the Word." I don't have Minutes to Go,

so I can't tell you what else is there.

 

I do have a copy of "The Exterminator", published later in 1960. It

contains poems that permute the phrases "WHO SENDS THE MAN?", "KICK THAT

HABIT MAN", "JUNK IS NO GOOD BABY", "CAN MOTHER BE WRONG?", "SHORT TIME TO

GO", "IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD", "RUB OUT THE WORDS", and "PROCLAIM

PRESENT TIME OVER". After the Rub out the Words permutation poem, there is

another poem also called Rub out the Words, which is laid out identically

with the first, but uses typographic symbols instead of words, where

rub = #, out = $, the = %, words = &. The book closes with the straight

Rub out the Word poem, then the typographic symbol poem, then "Proclaim

Present Time Over", and finishes with 4 Gysin calligraphic works, which

are gestural permutations of calligraphic strokes. The idea, as far as I

can tell, is that Gysin rubs out the word by first permutating phrases so

that they lose any singular meaning, becoming merely an arrangement

yielding polysemous underpinnings when mixed; and secondly by a semiotic

shift to typographic symbols, which shifts the signifier/signified

relationship from letter-phonetic based representations with their aural

basis to a purely visual sign. The word is finally rubbed out when words

are lost to calligraphy without meaning, writing without communication,

signifiers without a signified.

 

>From the Brion Gysin CD "Mektoub": "In 1960 Gysin was asked to present

sound works for a broadcast on the BBC. Among those recorded for the event

were 'i am that i am', 'recalling all active agents', and the 'pistol

poem' which differed by permutating recordings of a gun firing from

varying distances." All three BBC recordings from 1960 appear on the CD.

The two poems with words start with Gysin reading the permutated poems,

and then the reading itself is permutated by tape splices, speed-ups and

slow downs. The CD was produced by Perdition Plastics 4216 N.Damen Chicago

Il 60618 USA Fax 312.327.3887

 

I have a chap-book called "A William Burroughs Birthday Book" (1994,

Temple Press, ISBN 1-871744-90-3) that has two relevant essays/stories.

One is called "William Burroughs: a biological mistake" by Simon Strong.

He briefly mentions the connection between Gysin/Burroughs and Oulipo as a

topic worthy of further investigation: "The very least that Mr [Martin]

Gardner deserves is a mention here since it is my express intention to

shamelessly plagiarize the vast majority of this essay from his 1952 book

'(Fads and Fallacies) in the Name of Science'. Mr Gardner and his work

were, and still are, highly regarded by the members of Oulipo, the Ouvroir

de Litterature Potentielle. This was a circle of literary experimenters

founded in Paris in 1960 which would appear to have a number of

culture-spatial co-ordinates in common with Mr. Burroughs as well as

sharing geographical and chronological criteria. To my knowledge the one

has never passed comment on the other, nor vice-versa. If anyone reading

this essay has any ideas or information concerning this matter I would be

most interested to be a party to it."

 

There is another essay/story called "Nothing is True. Everything is

Permuted: The Last Words of Hassan I Sabbah" by Paul Cecil that is of

interest. The entire piece is an exploration of Gysin's thoughts on

permutations, drawing from many sources, most notably "The Process" and

"Here to Go". This is a must read. Paul Cecil then goes on to include

permutation poems using Gysin/Burroughs phrases and a formula of his own

devising. The chap-book was edited by Paul Cecil and has this in the

Biographical Notes:

"For a full catalogue of all Temple Press publications, or to contact any

of the contributors to this project, please send an s.a.e or International

Reply Coupon to:

Temple Press, PO Box 227, Brighton, Sussex BN2 3GL.

(Phone: 0273 679129 / Fax: 0273 621284)"

 

The book "Here to Go: Planet R101" has 6 listings under "permutations" in

the index, and from the number of references Cecil made in his essay, it

sounds like "The Process" will have many more. Here to Go also includes a

Gysin permutation poem that permutes the line

"ADEBC       14523      .$#-("

in three columns all the way down the page.

 

Please feel free to contact me for any clarifications, or if you have

specific questions about any of the books listed above that I have (Here

to Go, The Exterminator, A William Burroughs Birthday Book).

 

Cheers,

Neil

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 20:22:00 -0500

Reply-To:     "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@uwaterloo.ca>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Re: Permutation poems

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.SGI.3.96.971227210531.18998A-100000@komma.fddi2.fu-berlin.de>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

One thing I forgot to mention when I posted the Gysin permutation poem

from The Exterminator-- There was a very interesting typo that was in the

second line of the "WORD" stanza in the original that I reproduced:

 

[snip]

WORDS  RUB    OUT    THEE

WORDS  OUT    RUT    THEE

WORDS  THEE   OUT    RUB

WORDS  RUB    THEE   OUT

WORDS  OUT    THEE   RUB

WORDS  THEE   RUB    OUT

[snip]

 

A lot of interesting conclusions can be drawn from that one!

 

Neil

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 20:29:17 -0500

Reply-To:     "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@uwaterloo.ca>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Re: Permutation poems

In-Reply-To:  <da18fc3c.34a97634@aol.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

One thing I forgot to mention when I posted the Gysin permutation poem

from The Exterminator--there was a very interesting typo that was in the

second line of the "WORD" stanza in the original that I reproduced

faithfully:

 

[snip]

WORDS  RUB    OUT    THEE

WORDS  OUT    RUT    THEE

WORDS  THEE   OUT    RUB

WORDS  RUB    THEE   OUT

WORDS  OUT    THEE   RUB

WORDS  THEE   RUB    OUT

[snip]

 

A lot of interesting conclusions can be drawn from that one, and as

Burroughs always said, there's no such thing as a coincidence.

 

Neil

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 20:38:36 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      Re: Question

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

I think that goes back to an old post that I made.  The point was that "critics"

were critical of Thomas Wolfe and Jack Kerouac for "just being storytellers or

reporters" and lacking originality.  Al Aronowitz made a belated reply saying

that it didn't matter that writers were just story tellers anyway and that Jack

pursued the truth.  I belive the post that you refer to was merely stating that

the critics were wrong or unfair.

 

But if a thread were to get started on the writer as reporter/story teller, I

think it could prove interesting.

 

 

mike rice wrote:

 

> At 05:41 PM 1/1/98 EST, you wrote:

> >i don't understand why they should be criticized for being strytellers or

> >'just writing down the facts'. both of those are good things.the ability to

> >tell a good story is great for the heart head and bottom line.

> >

> >

> Who is being cricized for being a storyteller.

>

> Mike Rice

 

 

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 18:03:52 +0000

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Question

MIME-Version: 1.0

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<HTML>

Bentz and all

 

<P>This may be an old thread that I just rediscovered in Mr. Aronowitz's

response to it.&nbsp; I would argue that while JK and TW write very much

about "real life" they select away the daily drugery or compress it to

focus on the more interesting aspects of that life.&nbsp; Were they to

have kept an hour by hour record of those lives they would no doubt be

still wonderfully rendered, but a good deal nearer to the ordinariness

of our own.

 

<P>James Stauffer

<BR>&nbsp;

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

<BR>.

<BR>>

<BR>> My question is this, my life and the lifes of most people I know

have

<BR>> some exciting moments, but generally are full of daily routine.&nbsp;

If

<BR>> Jack's work is mostly autobiographical, that is actually just telling

<BR>> what happened, wouldn't that take a writer of greater statute to

be able

<BR>> to make everyday life so full, so true and such an inspiration.&nbsp;

I think

<BR>> it would, because he would have to actually see, and not imagine.&nbsp;

What

<BR>> do you think?

<BR><A HREF="http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj"></A>&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>

&nbsp;</HTML>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 18:06:41 +0000

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Fact, fiction, flags and Mudd

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Jerry

 

I am quite sure that film of the event is probably in the Pranskter archive.

 You

might check the Kesey website to see if it is available on video.

 

James

 

Bigsurs4me wrote:

 

> Steve Turner's Angel Headed Hipster on page 200 has a few photo's of Jack

> wearing the flag bandana around his neck while smoking a joint and looking

> very goofy and out of it. The photo is credited to Ron Bevirt who I believe

> was one of the Pranksters and is dated June 1964, New York.  In one of the

> photo's you can see what appears to be a movie camera on a tri-pod.  As Kesey

> filmed a lot of that trip I wonder if video exists of that party?

>

> Jerry Cimino

> Fog City

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 18:00:20 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         marie countyman <mcountyman@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Fact, fiction, flags and Mudd

Content-Type: text/plain

 

h hey, hello jerry. found yr email online. if things are possible for

visit, please give a holler to countyman@hotmail.com.\would really like

to get in touch with you. in frisco and then redwoods until some time

monday. don't leave until 15. reading on the 8th. get in touch and yes,

everyone here, thanks for the use of the bandwidth.

mc

 

>From owner-beat-l@cunyvm.cuny.edu Thu Jan  1 14:28:28 1998

>Received: from listserv.cuny.edu (listserv.cuny.edu [128.228.100.10])

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>Message-ID:  <32063c47.34ac177e@aol.com>

>Date:         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 17:23:56 EST

>Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>From: Bigsurs4me <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

>Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

>Subject:      Re: Fact, fiction, flags and Mudd

>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>

>Steve Turner's Angel Headed Hipster on page 200 has a few photo's of

Jack

>wearing the flag bandana around his neck while smoking a joint and

looking

>very goofy and out of it. The photo is credited to Ron Bevirt who I

believe

>was one of the Pranksters and is dated June 1964, New York.  In one of

the

>photo's you can see what appears to be a movie camera on a tri-pod.  As

Kesey

>filmed a lot of that trip I wonder if video exists of that party?

>

>Jerry Cimino

>Fog City

>

 

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 2 Jan 1998 08:29:17 -0600

Reply-To:     cawilkie@comic.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>

Subject:      Re: the fifties series on History channel

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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>

> What should be outlawed (not that it is possible to outlaw stupidity) is

> highly paid "reporters" like Mudd who have less regard for the facts than used

> toilet paper.  He can spin history anyway he wants but to report an incident

> based on sheer fantasy is something else entirely.

>

> Does anyone know where I could write Mudd,  Halberstam, or the History

> Channel?

>

> Howard Park

 

 

 

howard:

 

You may want to see if you can find out who the writer/director was of

the series, he may be more responsible for said error than mr. Mudd.

Mr. Mudd is a reporter, most of the time just reading what someone else

writes for him.  He's got the talented face and voice, and more than

likely was just used as a 'talking head' for the series.  Don't blame

him, blame the newswriters and the fact checkers (if there were any).

 

And once again, another fine example on why I did not go into journalism

as a career.

 

cathy

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 2 Jan 1998 08:32:15 -0600

Reply-To:     cawilkie@comic.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>

Subject:      marie's overly-long stay in california

Comments: To: mcountyman@hotmail.com

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

>

> Subject:

>         happy holidays and a good year to all

>   Date:

>         Thu, 1 Jan 1998 10:51:35 PST

>   From:

>         marie countyman <mcountyman@HOTMAIL.COM>

>

>

> hi all:

> my 1998 is going to be a kickass one, it is starting out, or i should

> say it started back in 87 when i got off the train and leon was there to

> greet me!

> adventures abound.

> expect some stuff after i get home. whhooooeeee.

> marie

 

 

 

So, marie,

 

am I to understand that you've been living at Leon's since 1987??????

So, Leon, how has it felt to have marie around for eleven years????

 

 

(Just kidding guys)

 

cathy

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 2 Jan 1998 07:41:50 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>

Subject:      Elm Street in Tempe

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Public thanks to Jo Grant for connecting me with a wonderful couple

Chris and Bil here in the Valley.

A lovely evening spent chatting over coffee and gardens of sound and

thoughts and chili peppers.

 

heading back to the Heartland tomorrow...will probably be at the

Beat-Hotel in Lawrence by

Sunday night or Monday afternoon.

 

Isn't 1998 off to a great beginning!  It's probably the best 1998 i can

remember

 

david rhaesa

there will be peace in the valley fa la la la la blah blah blah

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 2 Jan 1998 08:50:54 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         TRICIA PORTER <tporter5@WEBER.EDU>

Subject:      Some Dharma 1997 -Reply

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain

 

thanks honey.  that is interesting.  i'm not sure how freeing fish, will help

the chickens death less painfull.  i'll have to read more on this.

 

love tp

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 2 Jan 1998 08:46:13 +0000

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Some Dharma 1997 -Reply

MIME-Version: 1.0

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1998 and some things never change.  Love blooms on the Beat-L and more posters

join the group  triple checking  their "Reply to" addresses.  Just be assured

 you

are in good company.

 

James Stauffer

 

TRICIA PORTER wrote:

 

> thanks honey.  that is interesting.  i'm not sure how freeing fish, will help

> the chickens death less painfull.  i'll have to read more on this.

>

> love tp

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 2 Jan 1998 14:48:29 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Zucchini4 <Zucchini4@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Hard to find WSB book

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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Hi everybody. Just joined this list, and it is proving to be pretty

interesting. So here's a question I hope you guys could help me w/-

A little while ago, I found a Burroughs book called..... something.... of

course hiding on the wrong shelf of the bookstore so I'd never be able to find

it again. It was very small, had a .... dog?..... on the cover, and if you

turned it over and backwards it was in German. It started out going on about

how "language is a virus" and went on like that. I wish I could remember more,

but it's been a while, and no one else I've checked w/ seems to know.

 

And while I'm asking- do you guys think that when reading JK books (the

autobiographical novels, I mean) you should follow the chronological order?

I've been wondering about this. I read "Big Sur" after the "Dharma Bums", and

though that's the right order, there's about 4 yrs difference in copyright

dates... I know I missed *something*. I know I *should* read them as seperate

books, but then I always start wondering which name stands for which name, so

I'm not really reading it as fiction anyway.

 

Oh, and how about Jim Morrison as Beat? He refers to Beat poets a number of

times (although never to himself as one), and influenced Jim Carroll a lot

too.

 

--Stephanie

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 2 Jan 1998 13:30:32 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>

Subject:      Re: Hard to find WSB book

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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i think you're talking about "Electronic Revolution" or something like that.

read it while listening to Captain Beefheart's Safe As Milk

and the virus will feel fairly safe indeed

 

david rhaesa

soon headed to the Beat-Hotel

 

Zucchini4 wrote:

 

> Hi everybody. Just joined this list, and it is proving to be pretty

> interesting. So here's a question I hope you guys could help me w/-

> A little while ago, I found a Burroughs book called..... something.... of

> course hiding on the wrong shelf of the bookstore so I'd never be able to find

> it again. It was very small, had a .... dog?..... on the cover, and if you

> turned it over and backwards it was in German. It started out going on about

> how "language is a virus" and went on like that. I wish I could remember more,

> but it's been a while, and no one else I've checked w/ seems to know.

>

> And while I'm asking- do you guys think that when reading JK books (the

> autobiographical novels, I mean) you should follow the chronological order?

> I've been wondering about this. I read "Big Sur" after the "Dharma Bums", and

> though that's the right order, there's about 4 yrs difference in copyright

> dates... I know I missed *something*. I know I *should* read them as seperate

> books, but then I always start wondering which name stands for which name, so

> I'm not really reading it as fiction anyway.

>

> Oh, and how about Jim Morrison as Beat? He refers to Beat poets a number of

> times (although never to himself as one), and influenced Jim Carroll a lot

> too.

>

> --Stephanie

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 2 Jan 1998 16:39:44 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         DCardKJHS <DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Hard to find WSB book

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

David, You never cease to amaze...you old ZigZagWanderer!

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 2 Jan 1998 16:12:33 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      And the Beat Goes On and On--via Tempe, AZ

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

David,

What a pleasure to hear that the folks at 1603 found you as interesting and

charming in person as I have via the List. Perhaps someday our paths will

cross, out there,  on the road.

j grant

 

>

>Dear Joe --

>

>Thank you for introducing us to David Rhaesa!  We enjoyed his presence, his

>stories, his perspective, and found much in common.

>

>We introduced David to our phase conjugate model of consciousness.  Most

>people find it a bit abstract, but David found it paralleled his thoughts

>on the subject.  We provided a few pieces of the puzzle that weren't

>available to Burroughs, Kerouac, Ginsberg, Leary, and Watts.  It'll be very

>interesting to see what David does with this material!

>

>We spent 4-1/2 hours together on the Event Horizon, where cultural frames

>of reference dissolve and the barriers between individuals become receptor

>sites for new World Views; where God becomes your Friend, not an abstract

>Court of Judgment.

>

>We gained a sense of our larger kinship beyond Time and Space.  David

>arrived as a stranger, but left as an old friend.  We fondly remember a

>time when WE first arrived at the front door of 1603 as strangers, and

>found friends.  There must be something magical about this place!

>

>David left with a glow, a smile, and some hugs.  We and he had some laughs

>with the Universe of Creation.

>

>Thank you, Joe, for your intercession.  Once again, you've acted as the

>Divine Novelty Agent you truly are!

>

>Looking forward to sitting around the table with you again!

>

>Love,

>Chris and Bil

>

 

                    HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

                             Details  on-line at

                                 http://www.bookzen.com

                      625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 2 Jan 1998 19:14:38 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Hard to find WSB book

In-Reply-To:  <a66ef9e2.34ad448f@aol.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

> And while I'm asking- do you guys think that when reading JK books (the

> autobiographical novels, I mean) you should follow the chronological order?

> I've been wondering about this. I read "Big Sur" after the "Dharma Bums", and

> though that's the right order, there's about 4 yrs difference in copyright

> dates... I know I missed *something*. I know I *should* read them as seperate

> books, but then I always start wondering which name stands for which name, so

> I'm not really reading it as fiction anyway.

 

Well, if you want to be technical, Some of the Dharma should be inserted

and read along with the last half or third of Dharma Bums, then follow

with Desolation Angels.  Some of the Dharma was just published this year

so don't go by copyright dates.  Maggie Cassidy and Dr. Sax should go

before them all and you should read Visions of Cody while you're

simultaneously reading On the Road.  VoC wasn't published until after

Kerouac had died.  Its good to read them in some sort of order just so you

can see how his style changed from early on (Town & the City) to later

(Big Sur) -- big differences.  And knowing what was happening in his life

lets you know why his style changed.  Also, he didn't write his books in

the chronological order of his life.  In fact, his later stuff and the

book he started just before he died was about his childhood in Lowell.

So, don't sweat it.  Unless you're also as fanatical about the events of

his life and the happenings of the man and his era as we lunatics are,

just read what you can get your hands on.  There's a multitude of

writings that haven't seen the light of day since Kerouac himself stuffed

them into his "to do" box also, so you'd be fighting a losing battle.

 

------------------

Alex Howard  (704)264-8259                    Appalachian State University

kh14586@am.appstate.edu                       P.O. Box 12149

http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586             Boone, NC  28608

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 2 Jan 1998 19:32:31 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         CIRCULATION <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Fact, fiction, flags and Mudd

 

Jerry C. I forwarded your question to the Kesey camp. I'm curious too if that

film is still around. Also, I didn't see that apartment listed in Bill Morgan's

Beat Tour book. I think it was on 86th Street in NYC. Does anyone have

specifics? Probably torn down long ago.

 

Dave B.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 2 Jan 1998 21:03:05 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Hard to find WSB book

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 02:48 PM 1/2/98 EST, Stephanie wrote:

 

>Hi everybody. Just joined this list, and it is proving to

>be pretty interesting. So here's a question I hope you

>guys could help me w/-  A little while ago, I found

>a Burroughs book called..... something.... of

>course hiding on the wrong shelf of the bookstore

>so I'd never be able to findit again. It was very small,

>had a .... dog?..... on the cover, and if you

>turned it over and backwards it was in German.

 

Sounds like _The Four Horsemen Of The Apocalypse_.

Published by E.M.E. (Expanded Media Editions).

 

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 2 Jan 1998 21:19:36 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      Floyd Cramer

Comments: To: Hey Joe <hey-joe@gartholamew.com>,

          Johnny Winter <jwinter@sicel-home-2-19.urbanet.ch>,

          "jjw-l@io.com" <jjw-l@io.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Most here may not care, but an important musical figure passed on New

Year's Eve.  Floyd Cramer of "The Nashville Sound" passed.  He played

piano on Heartbreak Hotel, which in my book qualifies him for admission

into any Hall of Fame or Olympus.  His biggest hit that I know of was

"Last Date."

 

The newspaper reports that he recorded 50 solo albums and along with

Chet Atkins, and Boots Randolph (He had a great album cover back in the

sixties) created The Nashville Sound that allowed country music to cross

over.  He pioneered what is known as the "bent note" or "slip note"

style on the piano, "hitting a note and almost instantly sliding into

the next -- influenced a generation of pianists."

 

He also played on sessions by Roy Orbison, the Everly Brothers, PATSY

CLINE (a divine and eternal goddess) and Perry Como in addition to the

historic 1955 recordings by Elvis in his first RCA sessions.

 

We will miss you Floyd.  Many didn't know his sound, but if they heard

him play, they would know why so many play like him still.

 

NP-- The Ballad of Easy Rider (album version)

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 2 Jan 1998 22:39:47 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Glenn Cooper <coopergw@MPX.COM.AU>

Subject:      Re: Hard to find WSB book

In-Reply-To:  <199801030203.VAA02922@ionline.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 21:03 02/01/98 -0500, you wrote:

>At 02:48 PM 1/2/98 EST, Stephanie wrote:

>

>>Hi everybody. Just joined this list, and it is proving to

>>be pretty interesting. So here's a question I hope you

>>guys could help me w/-  A little while ago, I found

>>a Burroughs book called..... something.... of

>>course hiding on the wrong shelf of the bookstore

>>so I'd never be able to findit again. It was very small,

>>had a .... dog?..... on the cover, and if you

>>turned it over and backwards it was in German.

>

>Sounds like _The Four Horsemen Of The Apocalypse_.

>Published by E.M.E. (Expanded Media Editions).

>

>Mike

>

 

Nah, I think it's Electronic Revolution. My copy has a dog on the cover. A

dog doing a ... twirlie.

 

Glenn C.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 Jan 1998 02:06:34 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Floyd Cramer

In-Reply-To:  <34ADA038.EB07CBA2@scsn.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 09:19 PM 1/2/98 -0500, you wrote:

>Most here may not care, but an important musical figure passed on New

>Year's Eve.  Floyd Cramer of "The Nashville Sound" passed.  He played

>piano on Heartbreak Hotel, which in my book qualifies him for admission

>into any Hall of Fame or Olympus.  His biggest hit that I know of was

>"Last Date."

>

>The newspaper reports that he recorded 50 solo albums and along with

>Chet Atkins, and Boots Randolph (He had a great album cover back in the

>sixties) created The Nashville Sound that allowed country music to cross

>over.  He pioneered what is known as the "bent note" or "slip note"

>style on the piano, "hitting a note and almost instantly sliding into

>the next -- influenced a generation of pianists."

>

>He also played on sessions by Roy Orbison, the Everly Brothers, PATSY

>CLINE (a divine and eternal goddess) and Perry Como in addition to the

>historic 1955 recordings by Elvis in his first RCA sessions.

>

>We will miss you Floyd.  Many didn't know his sound, but if they heard

>him play, they would know why so many play like him still.

>

>NP-- The Ballad of Easy Rider (album version)

>--

>

>Peace,

>

>Bentz

>bocelts@scsn.net

>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

>

>

I always like to call Floyd's style the teardrop piano note

because it has a sad edge to it.

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 Jan 1998 04:55:24 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>

Subject:      Re: And the Beat Goes On and On--via Tempe, AZ

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Just got home from an all night adventure in Tempe with a local attorney and old

college friend.  We went to see the new Nicholson flick ate dinner and then

talked about Melville and Faulkner until dawn's early light.  We'd not been in

contact for nine years.  We're still old friends as it turns out.

 

As for 1603 evening it seems about a month ago already.  The ideas were

stimulating.  An interesting angle especially given the high degree of

scientific expertise involved and my moron level of ignorance in scientific

matters.  The parallels were far far away from each other.  It seems the

question is whether a unified conjugation of consciousness is possible in which

the forward moving muse and the backward moving muse say precisely the same

message?   I'll let them figure that one out.

 

I definitely have many other thoughts.  The evening was one of those enactments

of temporal relativity.  Chronologically four hours, yet also seemed ten minutes

and four years at the same time.  Bil's facial structure resembled an old

housemate in Illinois who was the Fool on the Hill.  Sometimes it was hard to

follow completely because i had to keep telling my memories of North to turn off

so that i could focus on the words coming in from Bil.  For those who know about

the conjugal consciounsess<grin> the experience makes total sense.

 

leaving on a jet plane today

 

david rhaesa

airborne.....

 

jo grant wrote:

 

> David,

> What a pleasure to hear that the folks at 1603 found you as interesting and

> charming in person as I have via the List. Perhaps someday our paths will

> cross, out there,  on the road.

> j grant

>

> >

> >Dear Joe --

> >

> >Thank you for introducing us to David Rhaesa!  We enjoyed his presence, his

> >stories, his perspective, and found much in common.

> >

> >We introduced David to our phase conjugate model of consciousness.  Most

> >people find it a bit abstract, but David found it paralleled his thoughts

> >on the subject.  We provided a few pieces of the puzzle that weren't

> >available to Burroughs, Kerouac, Ginsberg, Leary, and Watts.  It'll be very

> >interesting to see what David does with this material!

> >

> >We spent 4-1/2 hours together on the Event Horizon, where cultural frames

> >of reference dissolve and the barriers between individuals become receptor

> >sites for new World Views; where God becomes your Friend, not an abstract

> >Court of Judgment.

> >

> >We gained a sense of our larger kinship beyond Time and Space.  David

> >arrived as a stranger, but left as an old friend.  We fondly remember a

> >time when WE first arrived at the front door of 1603 as strangers, and

> >found friends.  There must be something magical about this place!

> >

> >David left with a glow, a smile, and some hugs.  We and he had some laughs

> >with the Universe of Creation.

> >

> >Thank you, Joe, for your intercession.  Once again, you've acted as the

> >Divine Novelty Agent you truly are!

> >

> >Looking forward to sitting around the table with you again!

> >

> >Love,

> >Chris and Bil

> >

>

>                     HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

>                              Details  on-line at

>                                  http://www.bookzen.com

>                       625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 Jan 1998 11:35:23 -0600

Reply-To:     cawilkie@comic.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>

Subject:      LANGUAGE IS A VIRUS

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>

> Subject:

>         Hard to find WSB book

>   Date:

>         Fri, 2 Jan 1998 14:48:29 EST

>   From:

>         Zucchini4 <Zucchini4@AOL.COM>

>

>

> Hi everybody. Just joined this list, and it is proving to be pretty

> interesting. So here's a question I hope you guys could help me w/-

> A little while ago, I found a Burroughs book called..... something.... of

> course hiding on the wrong shelf of the bookstore so I'd never be able to find

> it again. It was very small, had a .... dog?..... on the cover, and if you

> turned it over and backwards it was in German. It started out going on about

> how "language is a virus" .......

 

 

 

 

 

This has nothing to do with that book, (I think) but

Does anybody remember Laurie Anderson, the musical performance artist

who at times worked with peter Gabriel?  She did a song called "Language

is a Virus."  I used to have her tape, I can't find it now. If anyone

out there knows what I'm talking about, can they post the lyrics?  Maybe

it does have something to do with the book.

 

cathy

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 Jan 1998 14:05:43 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Permutation poems

Comments: cc: nhenness@uwaterloo.ca

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At 10:31 AM 12/30/97 -0500, Neil Hennessy wrote:

 

<snip>

>There are also recordings of Gysin reading his

>permutation poems, including "Kick that Habit Man",

>"Junk is No Good Baby" and some

>others.

 

<snip>

>The best books to look into are _Here to Go: Planet R-101_

>which is constructed as a series of interviews with Gysin,

> _Brion Gysin Let the Mice In_ ,  and _Man from

>Nowhere: Storming the Citadels of Enlightenment_.

>Mike Cakebread might be able to tell you if there's

>anything about permutations in the Man from Nowhere

>book (Mike?)

 

The only mention of permutation poems I could

find in _Man From Nowhere: Storming the Citadels of

Enlightenment with William Burroughs and Brion Gysin_

(published by the gap and subliminal books, 1992) is the

above recordings (and the blurb below) at BBC studios in

1960 by Gysin, with producer George Macbeth.

 

>from:  _Man From Nowhere: Storming the Citadels of

Enlightenment with William Burroughs and Brion Gysin_

 

Brion Gysin:

 

"We did first of all the 'Pistol Poem' which was their

revolver shot; I had brought a cannon shot with me, not

realizing that it would be too long. . . because here we

began dealing with sound as material measurable in

centimetres, even in feet and inches, and the whole point

of the exercise was to do things treating sound as if it was

material. . . tangible material; as indeed it has become

since the invention of tape.  And so we went to work, we

did the pistol shot one metre away, two metres away,

three, four, five metres, and then a permutation of these

numbers produced a pistol poem."

 

Not much, but better than nothing. . .

 

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 Jan 1998 18:52:32 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Wittgenstein?

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Does anybody know if there are any Burroughs references

regarding Ludwig Wittgenstein?  Any info would

be appreciated.

 

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 Jan 1998 19:11:37 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Glenn Cooper <coopergw@MPX.COM.AU>

Subject:      Re: Wittgenstein?

In-Reply-To:  <199801032352.SAA05859@ionline.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 18:52 03/01/98 -0500, you wrote:

>Does anybody know if there are any Burroughs references

>regarding Ludwig Wittgenstein?  Any info would

>be appreciated.

>

>Mike

>

WSB quotes him during the BURROUGHS THE MOVIE doco.

 

Glenn C.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 Jan 1998 19:52:02 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Wittgenstein?

In-Reply-To:  <199801032352.SAA05859@ionline.net>

MIME-version: 1.0

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On Sat, 3 Jan 1998, M. Cakebread wrote:

 

> Does anybody know if there are any Burroughs references

> regarding Ludwig Wittgenstein?  Any info would

> be appreciated.

 

reference to the Tractatus in the intro to Naked Lunch (about 2

pages from the end)....a paraphrase perhaps of 5.47321

 

*******

Jeff Taylor

taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

*******

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 3 Jan 1998 22:09:33 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Greetings and salutations

Content-Type: text/plain

 

I'd just like to say hello.

I just joined the list and thought I should I announce my presence.

A little bit about me:

I was first introduced to the Beats by reading "Desolate Angel,"

biography of Jack Kerouac. From there I read "On the Road" and "The

Dharma Bums".

I have shifted a little bit recently, I consider myself to mainly be a

Ginsberg devotee, of his books I own:

"Plutonian Ode"

"The Fall of America"

"Howl and Other Poems"

"Mind Breaths"

"Selected Poems"

"Journals Mid Fifties"

"Annotated Howl"

and the Barry Miles biography.

I have also spent a lot of time recently on a web site devoted to him:

http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry

 

I am going to make a point of reading some Burroughs (I started Naked

Lunch at one point, never finished for one reason or another) and to

read more of Kerouac (plus rereading "On the Road").

I have read a little bit about Buddhism and try to incorporate some of

the teachings into my life, I am also a writer of fiction and poetry.

That's enough rambling for now... Hope to hear from everyone soon.

 

Greg Beaver-Seitz

Stillwater, Minnesota

hookooekoo@hotmail.com

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 Jan 1998 04:23:26 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Greetings and salutations

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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i've noticed that a lot of new members have signed on recently. three cheers!

though i'm still new myself, and am hardly in a position to say this, welcome

aboard!

 

aeronwy

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:19:06 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Greetings and salutations

In-Reply-To:  <19980104060934.15361.qmail@hotmail.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

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Welcome to the list, Greg...

I also started Naked Lunch and never finished it but Im sure I will,

eventually.

~Nancy

PS I really want a Gary Fisher HooKooEKoo. Do you have one?

 

 

On Sat, 3 Jan 1998, Greg Beaver-Seitz wrote:

 

> I'd just like to say hello.

> I just joined the list and thought I should I announce my presence.

> A little bit about me:

> I was first introduced to the Beats by reading "Desolate Angel,"

> biography of Jack Kerouac. From there I read "On the Road" and "The

> Dharma Bums".

> I have shifted a little bit recently, I consider myself to mainly be a

> Ginsberg devotee, of his books I own:

> "Plutonian Ode"

> "The Fall of America"

> "Howl and Other Poems"

> "Mind Breaths"

> "Selected Poems"

> "Journals Mid Fifties"

> "Annotated Howl"

> and the Barry Miles biography.

> I have also spent a lot of time recently on a web site devoted to him:

> http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry

>

> I am going to make a point of reading some Burroughs (I started Naked

> Lunch at one point, never finished for one reason or another) and to

> read more of Kerouac (plus rereading "On the Road").

> I have read a little bit about Buddhism and try to incorporate some of

> the teachings into my life, I am also a writer of fiction and poetry.

> That's enough rambling for now... Hope to hear from everyone soon.

>

> Greg Beaver-Seitz

> Stillwater, Minnesota

> hookooekoo@hotmail.com

>

> ______________________________________________________

> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:04:15 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Greetings and salutations

Content-Type: text/plain

 

I've got a trip to the library today to get some kerouac and

burroughs.... i hope to find time to read them along with stuff for

school and a great book (completely un-beat) called "Sophie's World"....

 

Greg

 

ps Nancy... yes, I have a 95 Hookooekoo which I've upgraded a little

since buying it.

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:14:08 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Wittgenstein?

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Thanx Jeff & Glenn for the Wittgenstein info!!

 

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:54:01 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>

Subject:      kerouac & flags

MIME-Version: 1.0

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In _On the Bus_ by Paul Perry (NY: Thunder's Mouth, 1990), the following

statement occurs regarding a party at a Manhattan apartment including the

Merry Pranksters and Jack Kerouac:

        "'Take a listen,' Cassady says, putting the earphones on Jack. The

Pranksters massage Kerouac with soothing words. They croon choruses of

'Everything's Fine,' into his ears. Dale covers Jack's shoulders with an

American flag. Jack endures it stoically and when the chorusing is done,

takes off the earphones and carefully folds the flag and places it on the

sofa." (p. 84)

This book also contains a photo of Kerouac at that party with the flag

draped around his shoulders (p. 86) and quotes the following story by

Ginsberg:

        "The Pranksters had a big throne of a sofa completely clear for

Kerouac. The room was full of wires and lights and cameras and people in

striped clothes and Pranksters and jesters and American flags and people

waving cameras around drinking in rock and roll and all lit up like

amphetamines.

        Kerouac came in. He was mute and quiet and they showed him to his

couch seat but there was an American flag on it, so Kerouac, without

making a big, noisy complaint but a little minor objection, turned around

and took the flag and folded it up neatly and put it over the side of the

couch so they wouldn't sit on it. He was very conscious of the flag as an

image, and I think he misunderstood their use of it. They were

appropriating the flag for their own American purposes and he thought they

were maybe insulting it.  Of course, you can say many things about Kesey,

but being unpatriotic is not one of them." (p. 86)

 

Cordially,

Mike Skau

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:53:56 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mary Maconnell <MMACONNELL@MAIL.EWU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: New/"Kerouac:  The Essence of Jack"

MIME-version: 1.0

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Hi again.  Howard Park was right on in describing the play thusly:

 

-----

It opens with a fine jazz combo.  From there it is a series of events from

Kerouac's life.  It sticks pretty close to the facts as I understand them with

some "license" when the actor gets into the rhelm of how Kerouac felt about

certain things.  The territiory is pretty familier - Gerards death, football

days,  meeting Cassidy and Ginsberg, troubles getting On The Road published,

positive and negative reactions to OTR, troubles brought on by sudden fame,

the Steve Allen show, the breakdown at Big Sur, the Merry Pranksters visit,

the alcohol soaked 60's.  Readings from various Kerouac books are sprinkled

throughout.  At the end Vincent takes questions -- mostly from

twentysomethings who know a little, but not a lot, about Kerouac.

-----

 

Vincent Balestri was simply amazing.  Every time I think about it I want

to back and see it again and again.  Unfortunately, I live about 250 miles

from Seattle and so that would involve a weekend road trip which now I

won't have much time for.  Anyway, this guy is incredible.  He really *is*

Jack.  It's just him and the jazz trio.  On the stage is a coat rack, a

table with a typewriter on it, and a rocking chair.  He has a few

miscellaneous props such as an alcohol bottle, a poster from a "cheesy"

(so I've been told -- I didn't see it and I can't remember the title)

movie about the beats, etc.  I was captivated and it held my attention

for the entire duration.  He takes the play from a two-page bio that

Jack wrote from "Heaven..." and actually consults that during the play.

It's funny, well-written, poignant, and completely gripping.

 

On the night that I went there was such a mixture of people it was unreal.

I saw everyone from high schoolers (I wish I had known about Kerouac then!!)

to older people (hope I don't offend anyone).  :)  There were a few, but

now many, 'twentysomethings' in the crowd and I must confess that I was

one of them!  They do have a nice little bar in the back that serves

cheap, good, stiff drinks which you can enjoy at your seat during the

show.

 

The musicians are excellent.  The friend I went with knows the bass player

(Mike Bisio) pretty well and he introduced us to Brian Kent (sax) and the

guy playing drums (can't remember his name -- he was a stand-in for the

normal guy).  I loved the music.  They also play a bit before the show

so it sets the mood very nicely.

 

For those who missed it before, the play is at the Velvet Elvis in Pioneer

Square in Seattle and it plays until the 15th of February.  The price is

$18 a ticket but it *is* well worth it.  Heck, I'm going again if I can

possibly get over there.

 

Take care, all, and happy new year!

 

Mary

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:56:50 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Don Marriner <mmas@NETIDEA.COM>

Subject:      that old time religion

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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

 

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I'm yet another new lister - hi all.

 

I wonder if there's been any discussion before about how cool it is that

the three uber-dudes of Beat genesis - Burroughs, Ginsberg, Kerouac -

represented, by dint of their particular backgrounds,what could be

considered the three founding religious permutations of Euro-American

culture : Protestantism, Judaism and Catholicism respectively. It's like in

order for there to be a new spiritual wave form released into the North

American consciousness there had to be a coming together of the old

factions. Whaddya think?

 

Oh, and by the way, I'm a Canadian. Just for fun, can anyone think of any

truly Beat Canucks?

 

jacqui in Nelson, B.C.

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<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =

color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">I'm yet another new lister - hi =

all.<br><br>I wonder if there's been any discussion before about how =

cool it is that the three uber-dudes of Beat genesis - Burroughs, =

Ginsberg, Kerouac - represented, by dint of their particular =

backgrounds,what could be considered the three founding religious =

permutations of Euro-American culture : Protestantism, Judaism and =

Catholicism respectively. It's like in order for there to be a new =

spiritual wave form released into the North American consciousness there =

had to be a coming together of the old factions. Whaddya =

think?<br><br>Oh, and by the way, I'm a Canadian. Just for fun, can =

anyone think of any truly Beat Canucks?<br><br>jacqui in Nelson, =

B.C.</p>

</font></body></html>

------=_NextPart_000_01BD1942.83D433A0--

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:20:32 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sara Feustle <sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>

Subject:      Truly Beat Canucks

In-Reply-To:  <199801050255.SAA10191@everest.netidea.com>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

I heard your first prime minister (McDonald, right?) was pretty cool......

 

                         Sara Feustle

                    sfeustl@uoft02.utoledo.edu

                      Cronopio, cronopio?

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:54:18 -0600

Reply-To:     cawilkie@comic.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>

Subject:      language is a virus

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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Help me,

 

 

I'm still desparately trying to locate that Laurie Anderson tape I had

with "Language is a virus".  Does anyone out there have it and can they

post the lyrics.  I've got to satisfy my curiousity if it is connected

to that recently discussed wsb book.  Patricia told me that she had

preformed with burroughs and ginsberg, so i'm really curious on this.

 

cathy

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:11:42 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         tristan saldana <hbeng175@EMAIL.CSUN.EDU>

Subject:      Re: that old time religion

Comments: To: Don Marriner <mmas@NETIDEA.COM>

In-Reply-To:  <199801050255.SAA10191@everest.netidea.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

What are you referring to exactly when you say "that old time religion?"

I mean what does that phrase actually mean?  I haven't heared that saying

since the tune "Big Money" by Rush!

 

                                                Tristan

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 Jan 1998 02:24:01 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Timothy Franklin Thomas <tt324696@OAK.CATS.OHIOU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: language is a virus

Comments: To: Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@comic.net>

In-Reply-To:  <34B0758A.5F29@comic.net>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

"Language is a virus from outer space" was on Anderson's 1984 five-album

set "United States Live". I believe that this was released on cd only

recently. I'm sure she had many collaberations with the boys only one of

which comes to mind at this time. She did an album on John Giorno's

Dial-A-Poet series with Giorno and Burroughs. The album is interesting in

that instead of having one groove spiraling toward the center, there were

three separate grooves intertwined. Depending on were the needle touched

down at the start of the record then that was the track you heard. The

album was called "You're The Guy I Want To Share My Money With".

 

TIMBO

 

 

On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, Cathy Wilkie wrote:

 

> Help me,

>

>

> I'm still desparately trying to locate that Laurie Anderson tape I had

> with "Language is a virus".  Does anyone out there have it and can they

> post the lyrics.  I've got to satisfy my curiousity if it is connected

> to that recently discussed wsb book.  Patricia told me that she had

> preformed with burroughs and ginsberg, so i'm really curious on this.

>

> cathy

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:27:21 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         CIRCULATION <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject:      Kerouac & Kesey on film

 

From:   MX%"kenk@efn.org"  "Kesey and/or Babbs"  4-JAN-1998 20:00:09.62

To:     MX%"breithau@kenyon.edu"

CC:

Subj:   Re: This video still around?

For the Beat Listers who wondered if that film of Kerouac and the Pranksters in

NYC was still around, here is the word from Ken Babbs.

 

 

Dave B.

 

 

 

Hi, Dave. Yes, the film of which you speak is still in existence, as it has

been these past 34 years.  We have yet to edit it and release it. But you

can get videos of parts of the film from keyz@efn.org

 

or you can call them at 541-484-4315. It's Zane Kesey (Kesey's son) and his

wife, Stephanie.

 

kb

 

http://www.intrepidtrips.com

 

                 __________

                 _/          |

                |_  FURTHER _|

                   O       O

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:04:33 -0800

To: CIRCULATION <breithau@kenyon.edu>

From: kenk@efn.org (Kesey and/or Babbs)

Subject: Re: This video still around?

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:45:40 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         michael hanson <hanson@HUM.AUC.DK>

Subject:      Re: Wittgenstein?

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Someone recently asked for information on Burroughs's use of and relation

to Ludwig Wittgenstein. I am afraid I no longer remember who asked, but

anyway... here is an article you might like to read:

 

R.G.Peterson: "A Picture Is A Fact: Wittgenstein and Naked Lunch", in: The

Beats - Essays in Criticism, pp. 30-39, Ed. by Lee Bartlett, McFarland 1981.

 

Sincerely

Michael Hanson

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:45:30 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>

Subject:      Most Stolen Books

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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     According to Publisher's Weekly:

 

     Books most likely to be stolen from stores in New York City [would we

     consider this to be indicative of the US in general? - Matt] include:

 

     Waiting to Exhale

     Jazz

     Playing in the Dark

     Silent Passage:  Menopause

     Race

     Possessing the Secret of Joy

 

     Most stolen authors include:

 

     Annie Leibovitz

     Dr. Seuss

     Franz Kafka

     Jack Kerouac

     Malcolm X

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:36:10 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Glenn Cooper <coopergw@MPX.COM.AU>

Subject:      Re: Most Stolen Books

In-Reply-To:  <00089626.3427@usoc.org>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 13:45 05/01/98 -0500, you wrote:

>     According to Publisher's Weekly:

>

>     Books most likely to be stolen from stores in New York City [would we

>     consider this to be indicative of the US in general? - Matt] include:

>

>     Waiting to Exhale

>     Jazz

>     Playing in the Dark

>     Silent Passage:  Menopause

>     Race

>     Possessing the Secret of Joy

>

>     Most stolen authors include:

>

>     Annie Leibovitz

>     Dr. Seuss

>     Franz Kafka

>     Jack Kerouac

>     Malcolm X

>

In Australia, a list of most stolen books was published a couple of years ago.

 

Number 1 was WSB's "Junkie". Also feautured was "On The Road". The

Mariujuana growers handbook ranked highly, as did a lot of Henry Miller

books.

 

A couple of the book stores I frequent place all their "Beat" and

"counterculture" stuff right up near the counter, to help deter thieves.

 

Not sure what we can make from that!

 

Glenn C.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:04:56 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Most Stolen Books

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

     I'm surprised that Abbie Hoffman's "Steal This Book" isn't on either

     list.

 

 

 

 

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________

Subject: Re: Most Stolen Books

Author:  "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at Internet

Date:    1/5/98 4:36 PM

 

 

At 13:45 05/01/98 -0500, you wrote:

>     According to Publisher's Weekly:

>

>     Books most likely to be stolen from stores in New York City [would we

>     consider this to be indicative of the US in general? - Matt] include:

>

>     Waiting to Exhale

>     Jazz

>     Playing in the Dark

>     Silent Passage:  Menopause

>     Race

>     Possessing the Secret of Joy

>

>     Most stolen authors include:

>

>     Annie Leibovitz

>     Dr. Seuss

>     Franz Kafka

>     Jack Kerouac

>     Malcolm X

>

In Australia, a list of most stolen books was published a couple of years ago.

 

Number 1 was WSB's "Junkie". Also feautured was "On The Road". The

Mariujuana growers handbook ranked highly, as did a lot of Henry Miller

books.

 

A couple of the book stores I frequent place all their "Beat" and

"counterculture" stuff right up near the counter, to help deter thieves.

 

Not sure what we can make from that!

 

Glenn C.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:59:31 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Wittgenstein?

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Can anyone briefly tell me if the references mentioned

are influenced by Wittgenstein's _Tractatus_, or

 _Philosophical Investigations_?  Just curious.

If I remember correctly, LW changed his views about

language (he believed his views in _Tractutus_ were narrow,

and in _Philosophical Investigations_ he argues that

if one actually looks to see how language is used, the

variety of linguistic usage becomes clear.  Words

are like tools, and just as tools serve different

functions, so linguistic expressions serve many

functions). This recognition of linguistic flexibility and

variety led to his concept of a language game and to

the conclusion that people play different language games.

Trying to find out what WSB's take was on Wittgenstein's

theories.

 

Thanx,

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:22:31 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Most Stolen Books

Content-Type: text/plain

 

Speaking of movies..

Does anyone know if it's possible to find a copy of the movie, "Pull my

Daisy" which ginsberg and kerouac made way back when??

I have read about it a few different places and have pretty much never

planned on finding it but I thought I'd try.

 

-Greg

 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Ginsberg etc.

http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:38:00 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Wittgenstein?

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 98-01-05 17:26:02 EST, Mike wrote:

 

<< If I remember correctly, LW changed his views about

 language (he believed his views in _Tractutus_ were narrow,

 and in _Philosophical Investigations_ he argues that

 if one actually looks to see how language is used, the

 variety of linguistic usage becomes clear.  Words

 are like tools, and just as tools serve different

 functions, so linguistic expressions serve many

 functions). This recognition of linguistic flexibility and

 variety led to his concept of a language game and to

 the conclusion that people play different language games.

 Trying to find out what WSB's take was on Wittgenstein's

 theories. >>

 

Please don't take this personally, but who gives a shit? If prose was as

sterile and ho-hum as that theory and passage above, I'd never crack a book.

 

Gotta go read some Hank before I die of starvation.

 

ID

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:14:24 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mary Maconnell <MMACONNELL@MAIL.EWU.EDU>

Subject:      Kerouac: The Essence of Jack cont'd. (notes)

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

 

Thought I'd dig up the production notes and copy them from the program

from the aforementioned play.  They read:

 

Jack Kerouac exploded into the nation's consciousness in 1957 with the

publication of On the Road: the odyssey of two young men in post World

War II America travelling across the continent in a search for truth.

Their journey from Harlem jazz joints to the barrios of Mexico City lit

the hearts and minds of a new generation like a torch set ablaze against

a dreary cold war landscape.  The New York Times called the book a

literary milestone.  A few weeks later, the Times published a second

review condemning the work and all it represented.  But it was too late.

A new generation had been born.

 

In 1980, Mr. Balestri began actively working on what was to become

Kerouac: The Essence of Jack.  A friend introduced him to Edie Kerouac,

Jack's first wife, who was struck by Balestri's resemblance to Kerouac.

Edie supplied him with tapes of the author's voice and spent hours

talking about her life with Jack and the times in which they lived.

With Edie's encouragement, Balestri began a series of hour long '

performances in a friend's loft in Chicago.  He next performed as a

benefit at David Thompson University in B.C. -- an eight hour

marathon in which the actor and the audience went for broke.  Full

production began in 1981.  Since that time, Mr. Balestri has toured

extensively across the United States and Canada.  "Kerouac" has been

showcased in Jack's hometown, Lowell, Massachusetts, for their annual

birthday celebration and has been seen by many of Jack's family and

friends.

 

This production is dedicated to Jack's loved ones who are with him

now -- safe in heaven dead.

 

-----

 

The typos are mine, if there are any, and I don't know who wrote these

notes as there is not an author mentioned.

 

Thought this might give more concrete information rather than just the

groovy feelings I have for the play.  :)  I hope I'm not boring everyone!!

 

Mary

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:21:09 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Wittgenstein?

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 05:38 PM 1/5/98 EST, IDDHI@AOL.COM wrote:

 

>Please don't take this personally, but who gives a shit?

>If prose was as sterile and ho-hum as that theory

>and passage above, I'd never crack a book.

 

Obviously I do give a shit, and maybe there are

others. . .  How do you not expect me to not take

a reply like this personally?  If you

are going to make an open attack on me, please

don't kiss my ass beforehand.  I'd respect the

candor of the attack a hell of a lot more than a

petty flame.  I was trying to find out some info for

personal study, and this retort was not appreciated.

I hope next time you think before you post.

 

Sorry for the flame folx.

 

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:50:09 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Wittgenstein?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

IDDHI wrote:

>

> In a message dated 98-01-05 17:26:02 EST, Mike wrote:

>

> << If I remember correctly, LW changed his views about

>  language (he believed his views in _Tractutus_ were narrow,

>  and in _Philosophical Investigations_ he argues that

>  if one actually looks to see how language is used, the

>  variety of linguistic usage becomes clear.  Words

>  are like tools, and just as tools serve different

>  functions, so linguistic expressions serve many

>  functions). This recognition of linguistic flexibility and

>  variety led to his concept of a language game and to

>  the conclusion that people play different language games.

>  Trying to find out what WSB's take was on Wittgenstein's

>  theories. >>

>

> Please don't take this personally, but who gives a shit? If prose was as

> sterile and ho-hum as that theory and passage above, I'd never crack a book.

>

> Gotta go read some Hank before I die of starvation.

>

> ID

Interesting, what some people find interesting, i found the first post

interesting.  Language as a game resulting in escalation of thought is a

roller coaster i can buy a ticket on.  the second post seemed real

boring.

patricia

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:48:20 -0800

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: Wittgenstein?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

-----Original Message-----

From: IDDHI <IDDHI@AOL.COM>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 2:54 PM

Subject: Re: Wittgenstein?

 

 

>In a message dated 98-01-05 17:26:02 EST, Mike wrote:

>

><< If I remember correctly, LW changed his views about

> language (he believed his views in _Tractutus_ were narrow,

> and in _Philosophical Investigations_ he argues that

> if one actually looks to see how language is used, the

> variety of linguistic usage becomes clear.  Words

> are like tools, and just as tools serve different

> functions, so linguistic expressions serve many

> functions). This recognition of linguistic flexibility and

> variety led to his concept of a language game and to

> the conclusion that people play different language games.

> Trying to find out what WSB's take was on Wittgenstein's

> theories. >>

>

>Please don't take this personally, but who gives a shit?

 

Count me in as one who does give a shit.

 

>If prose was as

>sterile and ho-hum as that theory and passage above, I'd never crack a

book.

 

Sterile and ho-hum in the eyes of the beholder?

>

>Gotta go read some Hank before I die of starvation.

 

Stay alive with Hank, man, while I feast on Wittgenstein's theories. Thanks

for the delightful food for thought, Mike.

>

>ID

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:31:11 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      English major

Content-Type: text/plain

 

>> If I remember correctly, LW changed his views about

>> language (he believed his views in _Tractutus_ were narrow,

>> and in _Philosophical Investigations_ he argues that

>> if one actually looks to see how language is used, the

>> variety of linguistic usage becomes clear.  Words

>> are like tools, and just as tools serve different

>> functions, so linguistic expressions serve many

>> functions). This recognition of linguistic flexibility and

>> variety led to his concept of a language game and to

>> the conclusion that people play different language games.

>> Trying to find out what WSB's take was on Wittgenstein's

>> theories. >>

>

>

 

>Please don't take this personally, but who gives a shit? If prose was

>as

>sterile and ho-hum as that theory and passage above, I'd never crack a

book.

>

>Gotta go read some Hank before I die of starvation.

>

>ID

>

 

Exactly.

 

Leave dry, emotionless theories to those studying dry, emotionless

authors/poets/people.

I have seen such analytical, super-intellectualism in three places:

        In an AOL chat room (note: never visit AOL chat rooms)

        At a talk by Jane Smiley between her (although she seemed anxious

                (to end such talk) and an english major in the audience.

        In physics' books.

 

I have absolutely nothing against english majors (I very well could

become one next year), i have little respect for most people on AOL and

I just really dislike physics.

I also have absolutely nothing against the writer of the first message,

believe me.

 

With good feelings all around,

greg

 

 

* * * * * * * * * * * * *

Ginsberg etc.

http://members.tripod.com

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:45:43 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>

Subject:      Re: Most Stolen Books

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

I got my copy from Beat Books in Berkeley.

 

http://members.aol.com/beatshop/beatcat.html

 

Good luck!

 

Jym

 

----------

> From: Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>

> To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

> Subject: Re: Most Stolen Books

> Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 4:22 PM

>

> Speaking of movies..

> Does anyone know if it's possible to find a copy of the movie, "Pull my

> Daisy" which ginsberg and kerouac made way back when??

> I have read about it a few different places and have pretty much never

> planned on finding it but I thought I'd try.

>

> -Greg

>

> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

> Ginsberg etc.

> http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry

>

> ______________________________________________________

> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:47:02 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>

Subject:      Re: Most Stolen Books

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Matt Hannan wrote:

 

>      According to Publisher's Weekly:

>

>      Books most likely to be stolen from stores in New York City [would

we

>      consider this to be indicative of the US in general? - Matt]

include:

>

>      Waiting to Exhale

>      Jazz

>      Playing in the Dark

>      Silent Passage:  Menopause

>      Race

>      Possessing the Secret of Joy

>

>      Most stolen authors include:

>

>      Annie Leibovitz

>      Dr. Seuss

>      Franz Kafka

>      Jack Kerouac

>      Malcolm X

 

DR. SEUSS?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

What is the world coming to???????

 

Jym

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:12:14 -0800

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: English major

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 4:33 PM

Subject: English major

 

 

hookooekoo,

 

>>Gotta go read some Hank before I die of starvation.

>>

>>ID

>>

>

>Exactly.

 

Is it possibly your diet that keeps you, ID and Hookooekoo, on the verge of

starvation?

 

>Leave dry, emotionless theories to those studying dry, emotionless

>authors/poets/people.

 

Thanks for the compliment hookooekooo.

 

 

>I have seen such analytical, super-intellectualism in three places:

>        In an AOL chat room (note: never visit AOL chat rooms)

>        At a talk by Jane Smiley between her (although she seemed anxious

>                (to end such talk) and an english major in the audience.

>        In physics' books.

 

Is anything beyond your grasp unworthy of alive vibrant intelligent

consideration?

 

>I have absolutely nothing against english majors (I very well could

>become one next year), i have little respect for most people on AOL and

>I just really dislike physics.

 

How do you stack up in your noble assignments of respect and "nothing

against" refreshingly vital judgements?

 

>I also have absolutely nothing against the writer of the first message,

>believe me.

 

Here is a dry, supeeranalytical, overly intellectual question for your

amusement: What in the hell do you think you are communicating about

yourself with this statement?

 

Do you wonder if anybody takes you seriously?

>

>With good feelings all around,

 

 

Those are good feelings that you just spread out for me, a great admirer of

great minds and intelligent discussions?

 

I would like to suggest to you that perhaps if you worked hard at it you too

might discover the great joy there is to be found in profound use of your

brain. If you want to limit it to just whatever it is that you can enjoy

that is fine with me, but must you dismiss what you don't like as feed for

dried up super something or other? I think if you respected yourself more

you wouldn't be so quick with your handouts of respect  to others.

 

>greg

>

>

>* * * * * * * * * * * * *

>Ginsberg etc.

>http://members.tripod.com

>

>______________________________________________________

>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:59:59 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>

Subject:      [Fwd: Flying visions #3308]

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Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 23:38:55 -0600

From: Barb & Jim Rhaesa <racee@primary.net>

Reply-To: racee@primary.net

Organization: Living Big with Jim & Barb

X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; U; PPC)

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To: Jim Rhaesa <racy@primenet.com>

CC: Beach@qconline.com

Subject: Flying visions #3308

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Jim,

 

please forward the following to the Beat-L (address in you address book)

at your earliest convenience.

 

January 3rd, 1998 America West Return Flight from Phoenix to KC

(read while watching Space Jam and listening to Holy Soul Jelly Roll)

 

Riding a bike

First fight

NoDoz and First frozen pizzas

my first experiences with a

mustard seed

and the old old gardener

teaching

coooking

simmering

alchemical, archetypal, synaptic interactions whiz by like clouds

b

e

l

o

w

 

I'm flying above the clouds in a hot air balloon named Widener or

Titanic

I came to the Valley

with the old myth

"ya gotta walk that Lonesome valley"

by yurself

with a genetic engrained MIDI

chip brain ram recorder

spitting 200 floors above

Leonard Cohen's vision of the Future

Me and Roy are laughing

(Hank's 180 floors down coughing so we invite him up)

all night long

Often snoring too as boredom overtook us

we talked about lactose intolerance

with Robert Johnson

 

Whadayadoin here kid - says Blind Lemon Jefferson

and I says I'm just the Pizza Delivery boy

waiting

for a tip

on how

to survive the loneliness below

 

And John Lennon sings

There Will be Peace in the Valley

and gives me a ticket to fly

and Big Brother who held me company (not captive)

loans me a car and suddenly

I'm at 1603 ELF Street in Tempe

in the Land of the Apache

in the Valley of the Sun

and I'm a Moonchild's shadow from the

Dark Side

wearing Ruby Converse All-stars (low tops)

and black Levis

the Stranger of Strangers

who ghostwrote Camus

in anti-linear conjugative temporal telepathic Hog Greek

a total stranger

in the Valley of the Sun

interacting

intraacting

based souly on introduction

via

a technological medium

I understand at a limit set to nihil

empty set

of fingers pouncing on a keyboard

with John Lennon's choir singing

Rocky Mountain High

a

n

d

Louis Armstrong - It's A Wonderful World

with Jimmy Stewart dancing on the bridges

between the 12th and 13th dimensions

and

 

i wonder

 

when someone else will find the key

to the "Pizza Delivery Con"

at the Tower of Song

in issue #23

of Spy vs. Spy

 

the special biography of my backchannel brain distorted

and the eagle landed

in arrowhead stadium

 

david rhaesa

copyright January 1998

 

 

--------------A66F4A113EDD568599A4DB00--

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:56:45 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject:      Re: Most Stolen Books

In-Reply-To:  <19980105222232.650.qmail@hotmail.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 02:22 PM 1/5/98 PST, you wrote:

>Speaking of movies..

>Does anyone know if it's possible to find a copy of the movie, "Pull my

>Daisy" which ginsberg and kerouac made way back when??

>I have read about it a few different places and have pretty much never

>planned on finding it but I thought I'd try.

>

 

E-mail Jeffry Weinberg at waterrow@aol.com or go to his site at

 

http://www.waterrowbooks.com/orderpage.html  I am pretty sure he has it and

he is very reliable. Phil

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:25:45 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: English major

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> Greg Beaver-Seitz wrote:

 

> Leave dry, emotionless theories to those studying dry, emotionless

> authors/poets/people.

 

What strikes me in this comment is the assumption that a concern for the

idea of language and meaning is considered dry and emotionless, and that

perhaps it is not necessary in discussions of beat writers, whom I hope

are experienced as emotional, vital and alive.  The whole idea of beat

literature is centered in the experience of truly living life to the

fullest.  All of these people however went from "experiencing" to

"writing about the experience."  They wrote about human-ness and the only

way to do that is by using language.  Not only that, all of them

experimented with language: Ginsberg brought immediate, personal

experience to the realm of poetry; Kerouac brought up the idea of

spontaneous prose; and few writers of the twentieth have ever begun to

experiment with language in the way that Burroughs did.  I am sure

that Burroughs read widely in the area of the philosophy of language. The

meaning of language is key to everything we do and great writers all

experiment with the potentiality of the word.  If I'm broaching the area

of "analytical, superintellectism" then so be it! As Joseph Campbell

would say "follow your bliss."

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:31:36 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: English major

 

well said Diane.  while over-analysis seems to be the problem these days -

leaving the emotion as though it were a mere tangent to the work, still it's

obvious that language was VERY important to Beats, just as it is to anyone

who writes seriously.  for all his spontaneity, if memory serves, JK wrote

12 revisions of "On the Road".  and i agree that Burroughs whole take on

language could be viewed as a study of semiotics.  and if we wish to

understand any writing to the fullest, we must understand language, for it

is language that defines much of how a culture thinks - its philosophies,

its understanding of the world, its limitations.

 

ciao, sherri

-----Original Message-----

From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 7:00 PM

Subject: Re: English major

 

 

>> Greg Beaver-Seitz wrote:

>

>> Leave dry, emotionless theories to those studying dry, emotionless

>> authors/poets/people.

>

>What strikes me in this comment is the assumption that a concern for the

>idea of language and meaning is considered dry and emotionless, and that

>perhaps it is not necessary in discussions of beat writers, whom I hope

>are experienced as emotional, vital and alive.  The whole idea of beat

>literature is centered in the experience of truly living life to the

>fullest.  All of these people however went from "experiencing" to

>"writing about the experience."  They wrote about human-ness and the only

>way to do that is by using language.  Not only that, all of them

>experimented with language: Ginsberg brought immediate, personal

>experience to the realm of poetry; Kerouac brought up the idea of

>spontaneous prose; and few writers of the twentieth have ever begun to

>experiment with language in the way that Burroughs did.  I am sure

>that Burroughs read widely in the area of the philosophy of language. The

>meaning of language is key to everything we do and great writers all

>experiment with the potentiality of the word.  If I'm broaching the area

>of "analytical, superintellectism" then so be it! As Joseph Campbell

>would say "follow your bliss."

>DC

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:12:45 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Don Marriner <mmas@NETIDEA.COM>

Subject:      Re: that old time re:ligion

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tristan-

"that old time religion" refers to what I consider the old religions that I

mentioned in my message...

...ah, Rush: a very _unbeat_ Canadian band. But how about those Cowboy

Junkies? Surely they're carrying the torch.

 

chris-

Jack's family came from the Great White North but it seems to me that the

man himself was a good red blooded American boy.

 

And just to answer my own question - I just remembered Leonard Cohen -!

How could I forget Cohen-san. Mr Canuck Beatnik.

 

adrien -

hey, flat lander!

Thanks for the tips re Levy-Beaulieu and the bongobeat guy!

As for faves, I'm definitely a Kerouackian - I first read the Dharma Bums

while riding the Coast Starlight train from Seattle to Oakland, my jumping

off point for a week of wandering around San Fran and Berkeley and Mount

Tam with the lenses of Jack's lingo before my eyes. I was 19. Since then I

've tried to read as widely as possible and tried to get some shit down on

paper myself. I practically live by Jack's "list of essentials". I had the

pleasure of seeing Ginsberg and Orlovsky read here in Nelson in 1979 and

own what I suppose is a bootleg copy of that night.

 

 

ciao,

 

-jacqui

 

List of Essentials, #16:  Work from pithy middle eye out, from the jewel

center of interest, swimming in language sea.

 

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<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =

color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">tristan-<br>&quot;that old time =

religion&quot; refers to what I consider the old religions that I =

mentioned in my message...<br>...ah, Rush: a very _unbeat_ Canadian =

band. But how about those Cowboy Junkies? Surely they're carrying the =

torch.<br><br>chris-<br>Jack's family came from the Great White North =

but it seems to me that the man himself was a good red blooded American =

boy.<br><br>And just to answer my own question - I just remembered =

Leonard Cohen -!<br>How could I forget Cohen-san. Mr Canuck =

Beatnik.<br><br>adrien -<br>hey, flat lander! <br>Thanks for the tips re =

Levy-Beaulieu and the bongobeat guy!<br>As for faves, I'm definitely a =

Kerouackian - I first read the Dharma Bums while riding the Coast =

Starlight train from Seattle to Oakland, my jumping off point for a week =

of wandering around San Fran and Berkeley and Mount Tam with the lenses =

of Jack's lingo before my eyes. I was 19. Since then I 've tried to read =

as widely as possible and tried to get some shit down on paper myself. I =

practically live by Jack's &quot;list of essentials&quot;. I had the =

pleasure of seeing Ginsberg and Orlovsky read here in Nelson in 1979 and =

own what I suppose is a bootleg copy of that night. =

<br><br><br>ciao,<br><br>-jacqui<br><br>List of Essentials, #16: =

&nbsp;Work from pithy middle eye out, from the jewel center of interest, =

swimming in language sea.</p>

</font></body></html>

------=_NextPart_000_01BD1A16.4904DCA0--

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:32:50 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         DCardKJHS <DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: English major

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 98-01-05 19:33:22 EST, you write:

 

<< i have little respect for most people on AOL >>

There are 9 million people on AOL, I'm sure they'll be crushed.

Dennis (English major/AOL subscriber)

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:51:00 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Most Stolen Books

In-Reply-To:  <000898E4.3427@usoc.org>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 03:04 PM 1/5/98 -0500, you wrote:

>     I'm surprised that Abbie Hoffman's "Steal This Book" isn't on either

>     list.

>

>I imagine booksellers are tired of playing along with Abbie's little

joke.  Why stock the book at all if it is only for theft.  In the seventies,

I saw the book in stores, but haven't seen it since then.  It was a pop book

of the moment while Hoffman was hiding out somewhere in America, on the

lam from a heroin selling charge.  During that time, he negotiated a TV

interview of himself, with WNET in New York, in exchange for the then bulky

3/4 inch

videocassette player. Abbie makes you wonder.  He seemed the most carefree and

joyous of all the real life comedians of the sixties, and yet he must have

suffered bouts of despair, the last one leading to his suicide, when the

country started to grow more conservative, and he and Jerry Rubin were forced

to play good cop and bad cop to one another on a national debate tour;

discussing whether "twas nobler to pull out the stops for humanity (Hoffman),

or sell out to the highest bidder (Rubin)."

 

Rubin's position seems to have won the day, at least temporarily, but I

remember Abbie more fondly than any of the other players who entertained

us during the madness of the late sixties.  His motives seemed purer.

 

Mike Rice

>

>

>______________________________ Reply Separator

_________________________________

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:51:03 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Most Stolen Books

In-Reply-To:  <19980105222232.650.qmail@hotmail.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 02:22 PM 1/5/98 PST, you wrote:

>Speaking of movies..

>Does anyone know if it's possible to find a copy of the movie, "Pull my

>Daisy" which ginsberg and kerouac made way back when??

>I have read about it a few different places and have pretty much never

>planned on finding it but I thought I'd try.

>

>-Greg

>

>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

>Ginsberg etc.

>http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry

>

>______________________________________________________

>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

>

>

Try Home Film Festival at 800-258-3456.  They have a

reputation for renting independent and offbeat films.

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:16:31 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: English major

In-Reply-To:  <19980106003112.28202.qmail@hotmail.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I think you can talk the work of the three most famous

beat writers to death, as occasionally happens on this

list.  I view the List as a take-off point for anything

anyone might want to talk about.  And don't really object

to most threads, save for the dreaded Gordian Knot that is

the Kerouas estate.

 

I don't mind even the intellectualism, if there is nothing

else.  Something always bubbles to the fore eventually.

 

Mike Rice

 

 

At 04:31 PM 1/5/98 PST, you wrote:

>>> If I remember correctly, LW changed his views about

>>> language (he believed his views in _Tractutus_ were narrow,

>>> and in _Philosophical Investigations_ he argues that

>>> if one actually looks to see how language is used, the

>>> variety of linguistic usage becomes clear.  Words

>>> are like tools, and just as tools serve different

>>> functions, so linguistic expressions serve many

>>> functions). This recognition of linguistic flexibility and

>>> variety led to his concept of a language game and to

>>> the conclusion that people play different language games.

>>> Trying to find out what WSB's take was on Wittgenstein's

>>> theories. >>

>>

>>

>

>>Please don't take this personally, but who gives a shit? If prose was

>>as

>>sterile and ho-hum as that theory and passage above, I'd never crack a

>book.

>>

>>Gotta go read some Hank before I die of starvation.

>>

>>ID

>>

>

>Exactly.

>

>Leave dry, emotionless theories to those studying dry, emotionless

>authors/poets/people.

>I have seen such analytical, super-intellectualism in three places:

>        In an AOL chat room (note: never visit AOL chat rooms)

>        At a talk by Jane Smiley between her (although she seemed anxious

>                (to end such talk) and an english major in the audience.

>        In physics' books.

>

>I have absolutely nothing against english majors (I very well could

>become one next year), i have little respect for most people on AOL and

>I just really dislike physics.

>I also have absolutely nothing against the writer of the first message,

>believe me.

>

>With good feelings all around,

>greg

>

>

>* * * * * * * * * * * * *

>Ginsberg etc.

>http://members.tripod.com

>

>______________________________________________________

>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:16:35 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Most Stolen Books

In-Reply-To:  <199801060046.SAA17705@core0.mx.execpc.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 06:45 PM 1/5/98 -0600, you wrote:

>I got my copy (of Pull My Daisy) from Beat Books in Berkeley.

>

>http://members.aol.com/beatshop/beatcat.html

>

>Good luck!

>

>Jym

>

 

Fine, did you pay for it?

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:17:43 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         mike rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: English major

In-Reply-To:  <4918e886.34b1b3f4@aol.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 11:32 PM 1/5/98 EST, you wrote:

>In a message dated 98-01-05 19:33:22 EST, you write:

>

><< i have little respect for most people on AOL >>

>There are 9 million people on AOL, I'm sure they'll be crushed.

>Dennis (English major/AOL subscriber)

>

>

AOL gets a terrible wrap whereever you go.  Apart from the

problems they have been suffering for one solid year, I think

there is nothing wrong with those 9 million folks.  Many have

an aversion to dealing with the installation of software.  Others

want to carry their email with them when they travel, and the two

national "Brands" allow you to do this, though I simply fire up

hotmail on someone's computer, anywhere, to write someone.

 

By the way, does anyone know of an email software that will allow

you to create more than one personalized account and private code,

by encoding the incoming and outgoing messages, so that as many

as three or four people can use the same account and get total

email privacy from one another.  It would seem to be a simple

software trick to bring off.  If anyone knows, please write me

privately, will you?

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:26:25 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>

Subject:      Abbie

In-Reply-To:  <000898E4.3427@usoc.org>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Actually Abbie Hoffman had attempted the same strategy with his first

book, _Revolution for the Hell of It_, which he had written under the

pseudonym Free, a pseudonym which he wanted splashed across the front

cover so that people might think it meant the book was free.

Unfortunately, the publishers decided to reduce the size of the

author-pseudonym considerably.

Cordially,

Mike Skau

 

On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, MATT HANNAN wrote:

 

>      I'm surprised that Abbie Hoffman's "Steal This Book" isn't on either

>      list.

>

>

>

>

> ______________________________ Reply Separator

 _________________________________

> Subject: Re: Most Stolen Books

> Author:  "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at Internet

> Date:    1/5/98 4:36 PM

>

>

> At 13:45 05/01/98 -0500, you wrote:

> >     According to Publisher's Weekly:

> >

> >     Books most likely to be stolen from stores in New York City [would we

> >     consider this to be indicative of the US in general? - Matt] include:

> >

> >     Waiting to Exhale

> >     Jazz

> >     Playing in the Dark

> >     Silent Passage:  Menopause

> >     Race

> >     Possessing the Secret of Joy

> >

> >     Most stolen authors include:

> >

> >     Annie Leibovitz

> >     Dr. Seuss

> >     Franz Kafka

> >     Jack Kerouac

> >     Malcolm X

> >

> In Australia, a list of most stolen books was published a couple of years ago.

>

> Number 1 was WSB's "Junkie". Also feautured was "On The Road". The

> Mariujuana growers handbook ranked highly, as did a lot of Henry Miller

> books.

>

> A couple of the book stores I frequent place all their "Beat" and

> "counterculture" stuff right up near the counter, to help deter thieves.

>

> Not sure what we can make from that!

>

> Glenn C.

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:31:12 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bigsurs4me <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Pull My Daisy - video and CD

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

Pull My Daisy was finally released to video about a year or so ago.  We have

it available, as well as David Amram's CD of Pull My Daisy in our catalog.  E-

mail your snail-mail address to me and we'll mail you a catalog.

 

Speaking of David Amram I spoke with him the other day and he informed me the

soundtrack for the Manchurian Candidate which he recorded in early 60's was

just released on CD last month for the first time.  Gave it a listen last week

and it has a great jazz beat.  We now carry it at $16.98.

 

 

Jerry Cimino

Fog City Facts & Fiction

1-800-KER-OUAC

www.kerouac.com

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Date:         Tue, 6 Jan 1998 03:02:57 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: English major

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At 04:31 PM 1/5/98 PST, greg wrote:

 

>Leave dry, emotionless theories to those studying dry, e

>motionless authors/poets/people.  I have seen such

>analytical, super-intellectualism in three places:

>In an AOL chat room (note: never visit AOL chat rooms)

>At a talk by Jane Smiley between her (although she

>seemed anxious (to end such talk) and an english

>major in the audience.  In physics' books.

 

Hmm, an ex-psych/soc major (now Religion/Culture)

to be exact.  In respect to my original question about

Wittgenstein and Burroughs, I find it kind of funny to

be flamed for a question, that I feel, has relevance to

Burroughs and his works.  I admit this topic may not

appeal to some, but the usual banal banterings of the

list don't always appeal to me either - in other words,

I don't criticize others for their posts, or the relevance

of them.

 

<snip>

>With good feelings all around,

 

Actually a bad taste in the back of my mouth would

be more suitable.  I hope that your fear of "super-

intellectualism" wanes, and you learn how to effectively

use the processes of analytical/critical thinking. . .

 

Mike

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Date:         Tue, 6 Jan 1998 03:14:47 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: English major

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At 12:16 AM 1/6/98 -0500, Mike Rice wrote:

 

>I don't mind even the intellectualism, if there is nothing

>else.  Something always bubbles to the fore eventually.

            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

A perfect example of a Wittgenstein theory.

The meaning of a proposition must be understood in

terms of its context, that is, in terms of the rules

of the game of which that proposition is a part. The

key to the resolution of philosophical puzzles is the

therapeutic process of examining and describing language

in use.  So, to a scientist this may mean something

entirely different than it would to an "english major." {;^>

 

Mike

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Date:         Tue, 6 Jan 1998 05:21:11 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Julian Ruck <julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>

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 hello everyone, my name is julian, i was on this list for awhile this

summer, and now i have returned. i am from michigan, port huron, and i

am a poet, musician, artist, philosopher, and traveler. i am 18, and

have lived a life far beyond my years. i am a senior in highschool,

waiting to get out.

 anyway, that's me in a few words (and from my perspective), so if there

are people who would like to respond, please do, also, if there is

ANYONE from michigan, PLEASE respond, i've nearly given up on culture

and intelligence here in the "outhouse" of the united states.

-julian

 

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Date:         Tue, 6 Jan 1998 06:02:15 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Greg Beaver-Seitz <hookooekoo@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Pull My Daisy - video and CD

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Okay:

 

A few things.

a) you have all made excellent points about the necessity of language to

the study of beats.

b) i don't study the beats.

c) i admire the beats.

d) i don't attempt to mimic the beats when I write.

e) i simply write however i feel is right and it usually makes me happy.

f) for those studying the beats, i have nothing against that - not my

thing.

g) i did _not_ mean that to be a personal attack... if it had been

personal I would have said that the person who wrote the first message

was the problem.

h) the problem is the type of thinking that went into that message.

i) but that is only my problem and i don't see why everyone else is

making it their problem.

j) i am a subscriber to aol.

k) Montag15@aol.com

l) i will probably be an english major next year.

m) thank you to all those who gave me places to look for "pull my

daisy."

 

thank you, good night,

greg

 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Ginsberg etc.

http://members.tripod.com/~Sprayberry

 

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Date:         Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:53:21 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: English major

In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue, 6 Jan 1998 03:02:57 -0500 from <cake@IONLINE.NET>

 

A discussion on Burroughs and language is certainly appropriate for

Beat-l.  In fact, it's much more of the type of discussion I had in mind

when I created the list.   I hope to see more serious, academic topics

discussed on the list this year.  Recently, in my opinion, the list has

become a little too chatty.  There are a lot of messages that should be

private that are being posted to the list.   I agree with Mike, though,

that it's better to be flexible than to be too rigid.  I wouldn't want

the list to turn into a *purely* academic forum.   If one insn't

interested in a thread, one can simply use the delete key.

As a reminder to everyone, I thought it might be a good idea to re-post

the scope note all of you received in the welcome message: "Beat-l is an

online discussion forum devoted to the lives and works of the writers of

the Beat Generation, especially Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg, and

William Burroughs.  In addition to serving as an outlet for discussion,

Beat-l is intended to facilitate scholarly communication and to serve as

a bulletin board or calendar for poetry readings, announcements of new

publications, upcoming conferences, and related events."  And as our New

Year's resolution, let's all try to remember to treat each other with

civility and respect.

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Date:         Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:15:20 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      river city reunion

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patricia and i are having a river city reunion for two --

the cat just crashed it so now there's three

 

david rhaesa

at the Beat-Hotel

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Date:         Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:28:22 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Pull My Daisy - video and CD

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Greg Beaver-Seitz wrote:

>

> Okay:

>

> A few things.

> f) for those studying the beats, i have nothing against that - not my

> thing.

 

or not my thang -- the African for thing according to Tom Wolfe

 

david rhaesa

at the Beat-Hotel

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Date:         Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:55:51 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      julian

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In a message dated 98-01-06 08:35:39 EST, you write:

 

julian,

 

have lived a life far beyond my years.

~~~~not to demean your experiences, for i know not you or your life, how is it

that you have lived a life far beyond your years? traveling? thoughts? many

experiences compact into a short span of time into your town that are just

unusual for a person your age? of this i am curious.......for i am also your

age and i was under the same impression of myself up until my first semester

of college (which has since greatly humbled any sense of intelligence or

transcending the dreary plain of my high school chums, of i thought i

possessed, for the sheer immensity of the world that is beyond my senses and

experiences thus to date)....one example: being involved in a War.

 

PLEASE respond, i've nearly given up on culture and intelligence here in the

"outhouse" of the united states.

~~~i think there can be a certain beauty to an "outhouse", lacking

intelligence or not........perception of intelligence and culture, i think,

can be relative......it would be easy for me to generalize my podunk town that

i've lived in all my life as redneck and lacking any semblance of

intelligence.......but that would be a gross  overgeneralization on my part,

for i don't know a tenth of the people here.....and intelligence is not the

end all to life......there might be an emotional tenderness to this outhouse

which puts intelligence to shame.......but what i thought i learned in high

school has made me cynical to the effect of presuming that all is void in my

little county(unless, of course, you've got less than a thousand people in

your town, which, in that case, just ignore everything previously said  ;o))

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Date:         Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:57:22 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Julian Ruck <julian42@HOTMAIL.COM>

Content-Type: text/plain

 

 hello again everyone, i was just wondering, are there any avid

hitch-hikers out there anymore?....

 sometimes i feel like i'm the only one.

 please reply if you are or are willing to try it using the "buddy"

system. i am planning a fulll three month hitch all over america this

summer, and am looking for someone to do it with, because it can get

real lonely not having anyone to talk to. who knows what awaits for you

"on the road"

-julian

 

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Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Date:         Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:20:21 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: your mail

In-Reply-To:  <199801061557.HAA03897@f82.hotmail.com>

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Im a hitchiker in my dreams, if that counts for anything. I feel too tied

down by my life to take off and also, its not very safe for girls on the

road, or thats the perception I get anyway...

 

On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Julian Ruck wrote:

 

>  hello again everyone, i was just wondering, are there any avid

> hitch-hikers out there anymore?....

>  sometimes i feel like i'm the only one.

>  please reply if you are or are willing to try it using the "buddy"

> system. i am planning a fulll three month hitch all over america this

> summer, and am looking for someone to do it with, because it can get

> real lonely not having anyone to talk to. who knows what awaits for you

> "on the road"

> -julian

>

> ______________________________________________________

> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

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Date:         Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:19:43 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      alexander supertramp

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In a message dated 98-01-06 11:01:38 EST, you write:

 

<< who knows what awaits for you "on the road" >>

 

if your name happens to be alexander supertramp, which i seriously doubt yours

is, what awaits is death.

 

have you ever heard that story of the emory college graduate?

 

 

brian

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Date:         Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:21:40 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      German

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can anyone read german on this list?

 

if so, i was wondering if it was at all possible that you(singular or plural)

could perhaps translate a few small poems for me from kathy acker's "my

mother: demonology"......seeing as how the book in itself is confusing enough,

i thought perhaps my comprehension of it might increase if i knew what she was

plagirizing or saying in the german parts

 

gracias,

brian

 



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