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Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 06:14:34 -0500

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From:         Johnny Space-Boy <johnny-space-boy@USA.NET>

Subject:      Fwd: [Fwd: spicy beef burritos]

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From: "johnny. Space-boy" <j_space_boy@hotmail.com>

To: johnny-space-boy@usa.net

Subject: Fwd: spicy beef burritos

Content-Type: text/plain

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 02:48:29 PST

 

 

 

----Original Message Follows----

 

I don't know what it is about these spicy beef burritos, but I seem to

have these big revelations when I eat them. As I was munching down this

Hispanic Culinary Microwavable treat I pondered the expression "Life is

what you make it". Which for the most part I agree, but at the same time

I believe you are what life makes you. There are events that occur that

are beyond you control and as you deal with the situation you grow as a

person. I guess it goes back to the old envirement vs. heridity

arguement. Are you a mass of chemical reactions, chromosomes, and

nuerotransmitters? That's a cold fact I can't bring myself to believe,

of course that is a part of who we are like it or not, but I like to

think that we play at least a small part in the shaping of our

personalities. I would have to describe the human animal as mystical,

trying not to sound to corny, a mixture of all these chemicals firing

and flowing and an unexplainable drive and consciousness.

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

 

 

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Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 06:16:42 -0500

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From: "johnny. Space-boy" <j_space_boy@hotmail.com>

To: johnny-space-boy@usa.net

Subject: Fwd:

Content-Type: text/plain

Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 02:46:36 PST

 

 

 

 

 

As I sit here munching on a spicy beef burrito, I am pondering what it

all means. What does it all mean? Of course you understand the basics of

nuclear fussion right? Hydrogen burns into helium, simple enough but did

you know when a star runs out of hydrogen to burn to keep the fussion

going it burns the helium. It turns to carbon, that what we are made out

of man, isn't that a trip?  We are all just pieces of stars burning in

our own way. Because if you're not burning, in some way or another,

burning to be alive, burning to love, burning to live, man you are dead.

Life sucks alot, but without the bad there would be no good or some

cliche bullshit, you know what I'm talking about. I guess it all goes

back to what Jack said, nespa?

"The only people for me are the people who are mad to live, mad to love,

mad to be

saved....people who burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman

candles."

That's life man, don't ever catch yourself saying those common place

things. Get out there and be alive. Alive. That word has a meaning most

don't relize. Relize it man.

 

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Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

 

 

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Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 11:32:52 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Kerouac pieces?

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Just wondering if anyone can tell me where these

two Kerouac pieces come from:

 

"Not Long Ago Joy Abounded at Christmas"

"Home at Christmas"

 

I've tried looking through my Kerouac collection

(minus 3-4 that a friend borrowed) and can't

seem to place these.  Are these from _Lonesome

Traveller_ (one of the missing books from my

shelf)?

 

Thanx,

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 12:10:29 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jjdorfner <Jjdorfner@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Kerouac pieces?

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mike...

 

   the two pieces that you were asking about are included in Kerouac's "Good

Blonde & Others"...

 

published by Grey Fox Press.

 

john j dorfner

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 12:41:36 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: [too much coffee]

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In a message dated 97-12-27 06:08:55 EST, you write:

 

Carl Rogers. A humanist pyschologist

~~~perhaps his ideas are just a little bit idealistic

 

It seems like a pretty hard thing to do

~~~perhaps because we are incapable of it

 

he goes on to say that if you don't have a relationship like this it causes

incongruencies in your persona (makes you neurotic, bitter, unhappy, shitty.)

~~~i think this is a tad bit overgeneralistic.....and besides, the people who

are unhappy, perhaps they would not be this way if not for the rest of society

around them....that is to say, they are only unhappy because love and

relationships are constants in this society, among others, and having this

"left out" feeling causes them to have a sense of brooding depression and

loneliness they "may or may not" otherwise feel if love and relationships did

not play such a huge, idealistic or otherwise, role in our society...

 

I like to call the way you feel and live while you are in this state "Raw

emotions". Being real to yourself, but this is very dangerous because it opens

you up.

~~~being real to yourself, is something, it would appear, that dean moriarty

did in OTR........he opened himself up, and often times was chastised for it,

even though his friends were the ones who appeared to get fed up with his

lifestyle......even at the same time being attracted to him......i don't think

opening yourself up would necessarily give way to unconditional love and

attachment in a relationship.....perhaps if we were all to give in to our

innermost desires, this world would be even more fucked up than it is

already.....and this can happen in a positive or negative

way.......essentially we are all the same, but then again, we are not...

 

Brian

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 12:44:20 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: [who is johnny space-boy? ]

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"I am a  simple bhikku searching for all the answers a can find. Roaming

the world now I am in Bavaria, Germany."

 

 

why did you have to have this file in an attachment?

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 12:47:15 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: [Fwd: Re: spicy beef burritos]

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In a message dated 97-12-27 06:10:31 EST, you write:

 

<< People are born with what they have, then, based on their personal

strengths, or most likely, weaknesses, determine which road to walk down or

fall down >>

 

don't these same socio/economic/environmental situations determine then, what

personal strengths and weaknesses these same people have? do we have anything

which we can truly call our own? are people themselves or just constructs? a

tabula rasa, so to speak?

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 12:49:42 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: [Fwd: spicy beef burritos]

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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In a message dated 97-12-27 06:14:28 EST, you write:

 

<< I would have to describe the human animal as mystical,

 trying not to sound to corny, a mixture of all these chemicals firing

 and flowing and an unexplainable drive and consciousness.

  >>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 12:50:20 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: [Fwd: spicy beef burritos]

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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In a message dated 97-12-27 06:14:28 EST, you write:

 

<< I would have to describe the human animal as mystical,

 trying not to sound to corny, a mixture of all these chemicals firing

 and flowing and an unexplainable drive and consciousness. >>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 12:54:28 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      I apologize

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for some off reason, my comp was messing up my email system......so if

everyone receives something like five replies to the same email without a

response, it's because no matter what button i pushed, the letter would

automatically be sent....tis a frustrating thing, really........sorry for any

inconvenience

 

In a message dated 97-12-27 06:14:28 EST, you write:

 

<<  I would have to describe the human animal as mystical, trying not to sound

to corny, a mixture of all these chemicals firing and flowing and an

unexplainable drive and consciousness. >>

 

perhaps it is something explainable.......who are we to suggest we know all

the answers concerning our drives and consciousnesses? and howso do you mean

mystical.........explicate

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 12:58:45 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: [Fwd: ]

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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In a message dated 97-12-27 06:16:57 EST, you write:

 

<< Relize it man >>

 

i am sorry to be pointing this out, but spelling is one of my pet

peeves......it is "realize" and "a lot" and "fusion".......they may have been

your excitement building up so much you could not contain your words in a form

to match your thoughts....but i just had to point that out.....i

apologize....nothing intended by it...

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 13:19:24 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Kirouack <Kirouack@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: [Fwd: ]

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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hey...as Mark Twain said..."never trust a man that can't spell a word 3

ways..."

spelling is for editors...not for writers.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 21:25:43 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Florian Cramer <cantsin@ZEDAT.FU-BERLIN.DE>

Subject:      Permutation poems

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Dear all,

 

my apologies if my request sounds naive, since I am not really familiar

with the beat poetry tradition. I am in the midst of writing an M.A.

thesis about combinatory poetry from the 17th to the 20th century, and it

took me long until I stumbled over information that Brion Gysin wrote

"permutation poems" around 1960. This is highly interesting for me, since

it was the same time when Raymond Queneau wrote his permuting "100.000

Billion Poems" and when the information theorist Abraham A. Moles

published his "Manifesto of Permutation Art". You might also be interested

to hear that the "fold-in" method was prototyped in a novel by Marc

Saporta which appeared in the early 1960s. It seems like the mutual

influences on the development of combinatory/permutational literature in

early 1960s France (where I guess Gysin was living at that time) still

needs to be researched, in case I'm not telling you old stories here.

 

I took me quite long to find out about Gysin's "permutation poems" since

Gysin and Burroughs are not quite considered high cultural/canonical

writers in European academia, so that even such comprehensive accounts of

permutational poetry as Ulrich Ernst's "Permutation als Prinzip in der

Lyrik" ("Permutation as a principle in poetry", published in: Poetica,

no.24, 1992) don't mention Gysin's experiments.

 

Hence my question: Are Gysin's "permutation poems" published in books? Are

there any essays or commentaries about them? In the Web, I found

information that Gysin created these poems with the help of a computer;

however, the Web page didn't mention the source of this information, so

I'm a bit suspicious. Did Gysin make any statements about his

permutational poetry in interviews? ... It seems really difficult

researching this, since most of Gysin's books are small press and out of

print, and I guess that the majority of Gysin criticism has been published

in the underground press.

 

Any help in this matter is really appreciated!

 

Florian

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 20:15:09 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>

Subject:      Re: Fwd: [too much coffee]

MIME-Version: 1.0

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i must say that i can identify with the title of your message; i've been

having the same problem lately.

 

> I think this all ties into the feeling of being alive that I love to

> talk about.

 

i may be wrong, but i think that being alive is something that you

should experience more and talk about less.

 

 Being real to yourself, but this is very

> dangerous because it opens you up. Makes you vulnerable. What do you

> think?

 

there is nothing wrong with being vulnerable. i mean, you do get hurt,

but at least you are what you are; you are honest to yourself, and you

know that you are alive. if it opens you up, it opens you up to

experience. and, as i understood, that's what you want, isn't it?

 

> Experiences like the ones I have been having lately makes you stop and

> think.

 

don't stop. don't think. just do it. use it: write!

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 20:27:46 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>

Subject:      Re: Fwd: [Fwd: spicy beef burritos]

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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I pondered the expression "Life is

> what you make it". Which for the most part I agree, but at the same time

> I believe you are what life makes you. There are events that occur that

> are beyond you control and as you deal with the situation you grow as a

> person.

 

only at the conscious level; things, if you noticed, always happen for a

reason. you may call it destiny if you please, but you may also ascribe

it to yourself. it is well known that if your attitude towards life is

positive, so will be the things happening to you. and vice versa. life

IS what you make of it.

 

 Are you a mass of chemical reactions, chromosomes, and

> nuerotransmitters? That's a cold fact I can't bring myself to believe,

> of course that is a part of who we are like it or not, but I like to

> think that we play at least a small part in the shaping of our

> personalities. I would have to describe the human animal as mystical,

> trying not to sound to corny, a mixture of all these chemicals firing

> and flowing and an unexplainable drive and consciousness.

>

that's what, more or less, modern physics says. i suggest that you find

and read 'the dancing wu-li masters' (i think i spelled it right) by

gary zukav (not sure about the first name).

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 20:32:01 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>

Subject:      Re: [too much coffee]

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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and besides, the people who

> are unhappy, perhaps they would not be this way if not for the rest of society

> around them....

 

 

do you really think so?

 

this

> "left out" feeling causes them to have a sense of brooding depression and

> loneliness they "may or may not" otherwise feel if love and relationships did

> not play such a huge, idealistic or otherwise, role in our society...

>

but, what if not love? not in the narrowest, romantic sense. from a

certain point of view, everything can be considered love.

 

perhaps if we were all to give in to our

> innermost desires, this world would be even more fucked up than it is

> already.....

 

????

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 20:36:29 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>

Subject:      Re: I apologize

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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> perhaps it is something explainable.......who are we to suggest we know all

> the answers concerning our drives and consciousnesses?

 

as i look at it, there is no right answer to any question. even

mathematics has doubts about things that seem obvious. so, we can create

a theory, about our consciousness, or anything else for that matter, and

if it works (if it's coherent, as scientists say) it is good enough.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 15:59:41 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac pieces?

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 12:10 PM 12/27/97 EST, john j dorfner wrote:

 

>the two pieces that you were asking about are included

>in Kerouac's "Good Blonde & Others"...

 

Thanx, one of the books that are on loan. . .

Looked familiar, but couldn't place them.

 

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 16:12:34 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      The Politically correct days of Christmas (fwd)

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I thought someone might get a chuckle out of

this. . .

 

>---------- Forwarded message ----------

>Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 10:10:12 -0500 (EST)

>To: Michael Cakebread <cake0570@mach1.wlu.ca>

>Subject: The Politically correct days of Christmas (fwd)

 

>The "Politically Correct" Days of Christmas...

>----------------------------------------------

 

>On the 12th day of the Eurocentrically imposed

>midwinter festival, my Significant Other in a

>consenting adult, monogamous relationship gave to

>me:

>

>TWELVE males reclaiming their inner warrior

>through ritual drumming,

>ELEVEN pipers piping (plus the 18-member pit orchestra

>made up of members in good standing of the Musicians

>Equity Union as called for in their union contract

>even though they will not be asked to play a note),

>TEN melanin deprived testosterone-poisoned scions

>of the patriarchal ruling class system leaping,

>NINE persons engaged in rhythmic self-expression,

>EIGHT economically disadvantaged female persons stealing >milk-products

from enslaved Bovine-Americans,

>SEVEN endangered swans swimming on federally

>protected wetlands,

>SIX enslaved Fowl-Americans producing stolen

>non-human animal products,

>FIVE golden symbols of culturally sanctioned enforced

>domestic incarceration,

>(NOTE: after members of the Animal Liberation Front

>threatened to throw red paint at my computer, the

>calling birds, French hens and partridge have been

>reintroduced to their native habitat. To avoid further

>Animal-American enslavement, the remaining gift

>package has been revised.)

>FOUR hours of recorded whale songs

>THREE deconstructionist poets

>TWO Sierra Club calendars printed on recycled processed

>tree carcasses

>and...

>ONE Spotted Owl activist chained to an old-growth pear

>tree.

>Merry Christmas  Happy Chanukah. Good Kwanzaa.

>Blessed Yule. Oh, heck!  Happy Holidays!!!! (unless

>otherwise prohibited by law) *

>

>*Unless, of course, you are suffering from Seasonally

>Affected Disorder (SAD). If this be the case, please

>substitute this gratuitous call for celebration with

>suggestion that you have a thoroughly adequate day.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 13:33:41 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      HAPPY BIRTHDAY SHERRI!

Content-Type: text/plain

 

BULLETIN:

 

We are planning to sing the first round of Happy Birthdays to Sherri at

Tosca's, across the street from City Lights this evening at 8:00 p.m.

After

that you might find us at City Lights or Vesuvios, eating Chinese food,

roaming about in the neighborhood, then we are off to dance somewhere.

Sweet

marie will be there, Ann Marie (Anne Murphy) will be there, James

Stauffer

and myself and any one of you who can join us. We hope some of you can

make it. Sorry to be so late.

 

Happy Birthday Sherri!!

 

leon

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 16:10:13 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: HAPPY BIRTHDAY SHERRI!

In-Reply-To:  <19971227213342.11972.qmail@hotmail.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

If you pop across the street to Prairie Lights tell Paul Joe and Shar Grant

send him our best.

 

How wonderful that you folks are in Iowa City. Wish I were able to drive

over from Madison.

 

j grant

 

 

>BULLETIN:

>

>We are planning to sing the first round of Happy Birthdays to Sherri at

>Tosca's, across the street from City Lights this evening at 8:00 p.m.

>After that you might find us at City Lights or Vesuvios, eating Chinese food,

>roaming about in the neighborhood, then we are off to dance somewhere.

>Sweet marie will be there, Ann Marie (Anne Murphy) will be there, James

>Stauffer and myself and any one of you who can join us. We hope some of

>you can

>make it. Sorry to be so late.

>

>Happy Birthday Sherri!!

>

>leon

 

 

 

                    HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

                             Details  on-line at

                                 http://www.bookzen.com

                      625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 14:19:37 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: HAPPY BIRTHDAY SHERRI!

 

Joe, we're in San Francisco.  Leon said City Lights Books.  any of you Bay

Area beats who would like to meet Marie whois visiting us or just want an

excuse to party and touch a couple of Beat haunts, please join us.  we'll

meet at Cafe Tosca for a drink, then hang at Vesuvio, then if we're hungry

probably grab some cheap pasta at Pasta Pomodoro, then off to find some

dancing (will be checking the Guardian this afternoon, suggestions welcome).

please e-mail me if you'll be joining us so we'll know to hang in one place

til you get there.

 

and to everyone - hope you had a wonderful holiday and a most beatific New

Year to you all.

 

ciao, sherri

-----Original Message-----

From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Saturday, December 27, 1997 2:07 PM

Subject: Re: HAPPY BIRTHDAY SHERRI!

 

 

>If you pop across the street to Prairie Lights tell Paul Joe and Shar Grant

>send him our best.

>

>How wonderful that you folks are in Iowa City. Wish I were able to drive

>over from Madison.

>

>j grant

>

>

>>BULLETIN:

>>

>>We are planning to sing the first round of Happy Birthdays to Sherri at

>>Tosca's, across the street from City Lights this evening at 8:00 p.m.

>>After that you might find us at City Lights or Vesuvios, eating Chinese

food,

>>roaming about in the neighborhood, then we are off to dance somewhere.

>>Sweet marie will be there, Ann Marie (Anne Murphy) will be there, James

>>Stauffer and myself and any one of you who can join us. We hope some of

>>you can

>>make it. Sorry to be so late.

>>

>>Happy Birthday Sherri!!

>>

>>leon

>

>

>

>                    HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

>                             Details  on-line at

>                                 http://www.bookzen.com

>                      625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 14:50:23 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "David C. Breithaupt" <moondog@WELL.COM>

Subject:      Re: twister (fwd)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 10:47:18 -0800

From: Kesey and/or Babbs <kenk@efn.org>

To: "David C. Breithaupt" <moondog@well.com>

Subject: Re: twister

 

It's two days before Christmas

And all through the hoose

Everything's stirring

Including the moose.

 

The chocolate bubbling

On the stove over there

Soon to be applied

To the fattening eclair.

 

Remember this phrase

And attempt to fly it:

Eat drink and make merry

For tomorrow you may diet.

 

The elves jumped for joy

And joy jumped out the window

Gets too hot in the kitchen

Plunk yer butt down in the snow.

 

There's nothing every season

You can think of that's worse

Than guys like me

Attempting to make verse.

 

So just knock your selfs out

Don't pay no attention to me

Do whatever you want

With verve, grace and excess of glee.

 

Happy Holidays and bodacious New Year.

 

k&k

 

http://www.intrepidtrips.com

 

                 __________

                 _/          |

                |_  FURTHER _|

                   O       O

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 28 Dec 1997 00:06:23 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Permutation poems

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.SGI.3.96.971227210531.18998A-100000@komma.fddi2.fu-be

              rlin.de>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 21.25 27/12/97 +0100, Florian Cramer wrote:

>Dear all,

>

>my apologies if my request sounds naive, since I am not really familiar

>with the beat poetry tradition. I am in the midst of writing an M.A.

>thesis about combinatory poetry from the 17th to the 20th century, and it

>took me long until I stumbled over information that Brion Gysin wrote

>"permutation poems" around 1960. This is highly interesting for me, since

>it was the same time when Raymond Queneau wrote his permuting "100.000

>Billion Poems" and when the information theorist Abraham A. Moles

>published his "Manifesto of Permutation Art". You might also be interested

>to hear that the "fold-in" method was prototyped in a novel by Marc

>Saporta which appeared in the early 1960s. It seems like the mutual

>influences on the development of combinatory/permutational literature in

>early 1960s France (where I guess Gysin was living at that time) still

>needs to be researched, in case I'm not telling you old stories here.

>

>I took me quite long to find out about Gysin's "permutation poems" since

>Gysin and Burroughs are not quite considered high cultural/canonical

>writers in European academia, so that even such comprehensive accounts of

>permutational poetry as Ulrich Ernst's "Permutation als Prinzip in der

>Lyrik" ("Permutation as a principle in poetry", published in: Poetica,

>no.24, 1992) don't mention Gysin's experiments.

>

>Hence my question: Are Gysin's "permutation poems" published in books? Are

>there any essays or commentaries about them? In the Web, I found

>information that Gysin created these poems with the help of a computer;

>however, the Web page didn't mention the source of this information, so

>I'm a bit suspicious. Did Gysin make any statements about his

>permutational poetry in interviews? ... It seems really difficult

>researching this, since most of Gysin's books are small press and out of

>print, and I guess that the majority of Gysin criticism has been published

>in the underground press.

>

>Any help in this matter is really appreciated!

>

>Florian

>

 

dear Florian.

u are right Brion Gysin really made use of the computer

with the help of Ian Sommerville, the performance

"The Permuted Poems of Bryon Gysin" was aired by the

BBC but the audience rate was very low (the 2th worst score in

the history of the BBC).

[Nothing Here Now But The Recordings (1959-1980)

LP IR 0016 ''Industrial Records'' Rough Trade,

137 Blenheim Crescent, London W11, England.]

 

& it's possible that some tapes are in the

"Burroughs Communication Center" at Lawrence,Kansas.

 

i hope this help & other friends maybe can add

further info,

 

r.

 

---

Brion Gysin interviewed:

 

Devo confessare che i documenti piu' avventurosi sono stati

realizzati con vetusti Revere e con scatoline giapponesi da

100 $ con cui facevamo gli stupidi, William, Ian Sommerville

ed io. Affrofittai delle sovvenzioni BBC per realizzare con

loro una serie di poesie sonore. Tecnicamente non si discutono

,certo. In principio m'era parso di capire che avrei avuto a

disposizione una settimana; salto' fuori poi che erano tre

giorni soltanto, cosi' nella fretta alla fine cominciai a

spezzettare un testo parlato- mi pare fosse la spiegazione di

come funziona il lavoro in cut-up, Cut-ups Self Explained- e

lo feci passare parecchie volte nella strumentazione elettronica.

Approdai sul nastro a parole del tutto nuove, mai pronunciate

scientemente da me e da altri. L'esperimento fu subito ritirato

perche'... il tempo era finito e Loro erano un po' alterati,

anzi decisamente malpresi per i risultati che saltavano fuori

dagli altoparlanti; non furono poco contenti di darci un taglio.

"Beh, che si aspettavano? Un coro di cherubini con le imbeccate

sulla Borsa?"--William Burroughs.

 

"The Permutated Poems of Brion Gysin" (riversato al computer da

 Ian Sommerville) fu trasmesso dalla BBC, per la produzione di

Douglas Cleverson.(Il secondo peggior indice di gradimento fatto

registrare). sono reperibili alcuni dei primi esperimenti di

Cut-Up su nastro: Nothing Here Now But The Recordings (1959-1980)

LP IR 0016 reperibile nel catalogo ''Industrial Records'' Rough

Trade, 137 Blenheim Crescent, London W11, England.

 

---

saluti

Rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 23:35:49 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      11 23 magic numbers

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.A32.3.93.971226111445.36916C-100000@srv1.freenet.calg

              ary.ab.ca>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

MagenDror@aol.com writes:

>>i ask you, for my vanity, if the 23

>Both, I think. I came across numerous 23 synchronicities before being made

>aware of the Burroughs connexion, so the fact that WSB was also aware of

>these is just further synchronicity. Eleven . . . also a prime number, but

>not as interesting from a kabbalistic perspective as 23. And see Psalm 23 .

 

Dear Luther and others,

the William S. Burrough's interest for the number 23

as prime number is anticipated by the italian futuristic

performer Filippo Tommaso Marinetti (1876-1944). Marinetti

has for him the magic numer 11 (eleven).

saluti,

Rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 18:08:02 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: HAPPY BIRTHDAY SHERRI!

In-Reply-To:  <04e2e0721221bc7UPIMSSMTPUSR03@email.msn.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>Joe, we're in San Francisco.

 

Of course. I saw City Lights, but was thinking Prairie Lights. Got carried

away.

 

Happy everything out there.

 

j grant

 

                    HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

                             Details  on-line at

                                 http://www.bookzen.com

                      625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 28 Dec 1997 00:25:25 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: [Fwd: ]

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 97-12-27 13:22:14 EST, you write:

 

<< hey...as Mark Twain said..."never trust a man that can't spell a word 3

 ways..."

 spelling is for editors...not for writers.

  >>

 

 

very very true......point taken......

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 28 Dec 1997 00:34:10 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: [too much coffee]

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 97-12-27 15:39:55 EST, you write:

 

<< and besides, the people who

 > are unhappy, perhaps they would not be this way if not for the rest of

society

 > around them....

 do you really think so?

~~~it's only a theory....not one i particularly hold too much stock in, but

nonetheless, a suggestion i have considered....i have seen a lot of people who

react according to the rest of the pack, whether it be with them or against

them....and i have seen friends and family who become seriously ill as a

result of wanting too hard to be accepted by a society they believe has set

standards of what a person should be.....but by no means would i generalize

this statement for everyone....

 

 this

 > "left out" feeling causes them to have a sense of brooding depression and

 > loneliness they "may or may not" otherwise feel if love and relationships

did

 > not play such a huge, idealistic or otherwise, role in our society...

 >

 but, what if not love? not in the narrowest, romantic sense. from a

 certain point of view, everything can be considered love.

~~~from a certain point of view.....sorta like the statement i suppose, "some

things done out of love are beyond good and evil".....but if you can say that

everything can be considered love from one perspective, you could easily turn

it around, and say everything is done out of selfishness

 

 perhaps if we were all to give in to our

 > innermost desires, this world would be even more fucked up than it is

 > already.....

 ????

~~~meaning, if we stopped limiting ourselves.....(which some, not all of us

do)....stop checking out innermost selves at the door, in the name or morality

or all else, perhaps, perhaps our society or our world would be more

anarchist...and not necessarily in a political or negative fashion....perhaps

more love would be shown, you know the facade(if it exists) of machoism would

be let down...more emotions could be revealed.....or perhaps we would have a

million more neal cassadys in the world....or perhaps not....you never

know.....if every man and woman on this planet for one day, unlocked these

man-made doors constructed by physical boundaries, religion, morality,

etc......and just went above it all, transcendance, whatever you would like to

call it......and just did absolutely what they wanted to, then we would have a

truly curious and mysterious and beautifully odd world.....

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 28 Dec 1997 10:54:04 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      a poem by Gary Snyder.

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.SGI.3.96.971227210531.18998A-100000@komma.fddi2.fu-be

              rlin.de>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

How Poetry Comes to Me          by Gary Snyder

 

It comes blundering over the

Boulders at night, it stays

Frightened outside the

Range of my campfire

I go to meet it at the

Edge of the light

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 28 Dec 1997 14:55:27 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Irving Leif <ileif@IX.NETCOM.COM>

Subject:      New Kerouac Translations

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Kerouac's reputation and acceptance as an important writer continues to

spread around the world.  He is now been translated into two additional

languages - Turkish and Hebrew.

 

The books are:

 

Yolda (On The Road) published in Istanbul by Kiyi

 

ha-Hatranim (The Subterraneans) published in Tel Aviv by Geranim

 

 

Irving Leif

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 29 Dec 1997 05:38:49 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Glenn Cooper <coopergw@MPX.COM.AU>

Subject:      Personal to Michael Nally

In-Reply-To:  <34A5D641.45F5@eunet.yu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Michael,

 

I received your post about "Sunlight Dies With The Roses" but my mail to

you is bouncing. Any ideas?

 

Glenn C.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 29 Dec 1997 06:56:54 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>

Subject:      Satori in Phoenix

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

This thread involves the peculiarities of existence finishing Maggie

Cassidy and beginning Satori in Paris while spending the holidays in

Phoenix.

 

OR

 

It's just a way of saying hello to friends around here and there.

 

The flight here i was reading Maggie C. but two rows back some young kid

was reading the compleat works of Rimbaud and coincidentally or not the

guy sitting next to him went into some sort of overdose coma and came

out to try and light a cigarette (which i could definitely relate to)

and was stopped and then passed out and then the call for medical folks

and gadgets and junk connected to him which pretty much meant that the

rest of us were not only excluded from our nicotine doses but also had

to wait extra extra long to get our caffeine infusions.  But it was a

rather decent distraction.

 

So ---- sitting in Mesa (not actually IN Phoenix --- but close to it)

and I finally says to myself i need an infusion of Beat-L mania and so

while listening to Clapton UnPlugged nobody knows you when you're down

and out (in Paris or London or Phoenix) I hit a few buttons and must've

hit Some of the right ones cuz i'm here again ((((at least i think i

am)))))

 

so did i miss anything while i was incommunicado?

 

david rhaesa (race)

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:04:53 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: New Kerouac Translations

In-Reply-To:  <199712282055.OAA14973@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Buona giornata a tutti,

 

at the right moment, in Italy is out (september 97)

an abridged edition of "Jack Kerouac-Selected Letters 1040-1959)"

(c) 1995 the Estate of stella Kerouac, John Sampas,

Literary Representative. Notes copyright (c) Ann Charters,1995

 

the italian named Jack Kerouac "Letter dalla Beat Generation",

translated by Silvia Piraccini,

published by Arnoldo Mondadori Editore S.p.A. Milano

(a Silvio Berlusconi's publishing house).

Luckily the book is a paperback edition (lire italiane 9000

value approximately 3 $).

Info on Internet

http://www.mondadori.com/libri

 

saluti,

Rinaldo.

--------

At 14.55 28/12/97 -0600, Irving Leif <ileif@IX.NETCOM.COM> wrote:

>Kerouac's reputation and acceptance as an important writer continues to

>spread around the world.  He is now been translated into two additional

>languages - Turkish and Hebrew.

>

>The books are:

>

>Yolda (On The Road) published in Istanbul by Kiyi

>

>ha-Hatranim (The Subterraneans) published in Tel Aviv by Geranim

>

>

>Irving Leif

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 29 Dec 1997 10:12:11 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Satori in Phoenix

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Jim Rhaesa wrote:

>

> This thread involves the peculiarities of existence finishing Maggie

> Cassidy and beginning Satori in Paris while spending the holidays in

> Phoenix.

>

> OR

>

> It's just a way of saying hello to friends around here and there.

>

yes you did, great to hear fromyou, happy monday. I was almost silehnt

patricia

>

> so did i miss anything while i was incommunicado?

>

> david rhaesa (race)

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 29 Dec 1997 01:38:29 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Satori in Phoenix

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> RACE wrote:

>

> This thread involves the peculiarities of existence finishing Maggie

> Cassidy and beginning Satori in Paris while spending the holidays in

> Phoenix.

 

It has been very quiet here on the beat-l.  What did Maggie Cassidy have

to say to you about the peculiarities of existence?

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 29 Dec 1997 18:08:40 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Satori in Phoenix

In-Reply-To:  <34A7CBDB.E22@sunflower.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

patricia wrote:

>Jim Rhaesa wrote:

>>

>> This thread involves the peculiarities of existence finishing Maggie

>> Cassidy and beginning Satori in Paris while spending the holidays in

>> Phoenix.

>>

>> OR

>>

>> It's just a way of saying hello to friends around here and there.

>>

>yes you did, great to hear fromyou, happy monday. I was almost silehnt

>patricia

>>

>> so did i miss anything while i was incommunicado?

>>

>> david rhaesa (race)

>

        -

        -

        -

        -

        -odetosatori-            -yr white pointed shoes-

        just now the-            -you are eating spaghetti

        take away re-             in the midnite on the boat

        staurant chi-            -yr wind yr wind

        nese in fron-            -the sky u never NEVER u'll see

        t of my wind-            -an old car

        ow has light-            -a new car

        on red lante-            -

        rns swaying -            -

        cuz the wind-            -

        29 december -            -poesy is over for u

        after noon m-            -

        y mind is my-            -a prayer

        body my brai-            -how many diabetics on

        n an electri-             the autumnal parking lot

        c transforme-             one hundred!

        r blades of -            -electric sound in yr

        copper wrapp-             mind my brother

        ed day after-            -every day so tiny

        day after da-            -

        y cut! born!-            -no one scream

        dead! i'm li-            -electric stream

        stening the -            -7 seven days

        radio & look-            -

        ing at the s-            -

        ky a bit fog-            .

        gy the-

        day is-

        hardly-

        over t-

        he rad-

        io tel-

        ls who-

        i am w-

        hooo i-

        am    -

        da-

        y -

        af-

        te-

        r -

        da-

        y -

        -

        -

        -

cos'altro si puo' dire alla fine di una

giornata invernale? le ombre della nott

e stanno gia' avvicinandosi, cos'e' un

satori a parigi, a londra, a phoenix, o

qui a mestre the cyber venicesque other

side of the moon world?

        -

        -

        -

        r

        i

        n

        a

        l

        d

        o

        -

        -

        -

beat heart beat heart beat heart beat heart

        -

        -

        -

SCREEEEEEEAMM! ode to-day       ODE TO-DAY!

        -

        -

        THE

E L E C T R I C

T R A N S F O R M E R

        -

        -

        -

is well working in the factory

        -

        -

        -

a tribute to d.r.

        -

        -

        -

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:03:42 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Satori in Phoenix

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

on a chill wind day,

mourning as a way to weave mortality and time.

i hear rinaldos voice,

beacon to encourage my provincial dance

on

cosmopolition streets.

poems drip from his nose,

odes from his toes,

prose swim in his irises

his tom sawyer voice

yelling come jump in the river

listen to this.

tribute to rinaldo

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 29 Dec 1997 10:27:05 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         marie countyman <mcountyman@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject:      hello from california

Content-Type: text/plain

 

hey there all beat-ls

i haven't had the time to write much, but would like to tell you all

happy new year and a damned fine good one it should all be! leon has

been showing me the sights, and sherri's birthday party atnorth beach

was a blast, the redwoods, the salvation army thrift store where i

bought my dr sax raincoat, all so much happening. even went on my first

roller coaster ride in my life ALONE!!!

i'm journaling like mad, hoping in a few weeeks after return to have

some interesting things to write. for now, old fashioned fountain pen

and notebook loggin all thoughts and adventures.

mc

 

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:41:17 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Irving Leif <ileif@IX.NETCOM.COM>

Subject:      Re: New Kerouac Translations

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Rinaldo,

 

Thank you greatly for this info and for being so kind to bring it to my

attention. This is important for my ongoing work on a new bibliography.

 

Irving

 

 

At 04:04 PM 12/29/97 +0100, you wrote:

>Buona giornata a tutti,

>

>at the right moment, in Italy is out (september 97)

>an abridged edition of "Jack Kerouac-Selected Letters 1040-1959)"

>(c) 1995 the Estate of stella Kerouac, John Sampas,

>Literary Representative. Notes copyright (c) Ann Charters,1995

>

>the italian named Jack Kerouac "Letter dalla Beat Generation",

>translated by Silvia Piraccini,

>published by Arnoldo Mondadori Editore S.p.A. Milano

>(a Silvio Berlusconi's publishing house).

>Luckily the book is a paperback edition (lire italiane 9000

>value approximately 3 $).

>Info on Internet

>http://www.mondadori.com/libri

>

>saluti,

>Rinaldo.

>--------

>At 14.55 28/12/97 -0600, Irving Leif <ileif@IX.NETCOM.COM> wrote:

>>Kerouac's reputation and acceptance as an important writer continues to

>>spread around the world.  He is now been translated into two additional

>>languages - Turkish and Hebrew.

>>

>>The books are:

>>

>>Yolda (On The Road) published in Istanbul by Kiyi

>>

>>ha-Hatranim (The Subterraneans) published in Tel Aviv by Geranim

>>

>>

>>Irving Leif

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:23:53 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Satori in Phoenix

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

Hey Race

              Sounds like one of my flights! Hope the satori was good. Gotta

take em where you find em!

                              GT

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:36:01 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>

Subject:      Re: Satori in Phoenix

MIME-Version: 1.0

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GTL1951 wrote:

 

> Hey Race

>               Sounds like one of my flights! Hope the satori was good. Gotta

> take em where you find em!

>                               GT

 

the flight crew was damn amusing.  so worried about liability that they're

hopping around like headless chickens.

 

Phoenix is a warm and wonderful place where cactus grow three thousand feet in

the air.

 

Satori is always good.

 

david rhaesa

in mesa

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:37:23 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>

Subject:      Re: hello from california

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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marie countyman wrote:

 

> hey there all beat-ls

 

> the salvation army thrift store where i

> bought my dr sax raincoat,

 

HEY!  I think that's my missing Raincoat!!!

 

david rhaesa

in mesa

 

 

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:38:35 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>

Subject:      Re: Satori in Phoenix

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Patricia Elliott wrote:

 

> his tom sawyer voice

> yelling come jump in the river

> listen to this.

 

i'll be huck and we can go to our funerals together

 

david rhaesa

in mesa

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:40:19 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>

Subject:      Re: Satori in Phoenix

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

 

> patricia wrote:

> >Jim Rhaesa wrote:

> >>

> >> This thread involves the peculiarities of existence finishing Maggie

> >> Cassidy and beginning Satori in Paris while spending the holidays in

> >> Phoenix.

> >>

> >> OR

> >>

> >> It's just a way of saying hello to friends around here and there.

> >>

> >yes you did, great to hear fromyou, happy monday. I was almost silehnt

> >patricia

> >>

> >> so did i miss anything while i was incommunicado?

> >>

> >> david rhaesa (race)

> >

>         -

>         -

>         -

>         -

>         -odetosatori-            -yr white pointed shoes-

>         just now the-            -you are eating spaghetti

>         take away re-             in the midnite on the boat

>         staurant chi-            -yr wind yr wind

>         nese in fron-            -the sky u never NEVER u'll see

>         t of my wind-            -an old car

>         ow has light-            -a new car

>         on red lante-            -

>         rns swaying -            -

>         cuz the wind-            -

>         29 december -            -poesy is over for u

>         after noon m-            -

>         y mind is my-            -a prayer

>         body my brai-            -how many diabetics on

>         n an electri-             the autumnal parking lot

>         c transforme-             one hundred!

>         r blades of -            -electric sound in yr

>         copper wrapp-             mind my brother

>         ed day after-            -every day so tiny

>         day after da-            -

>         y cut! born!-            -no one scream

>         dead! i'm li-            -electric stream

>         stening the -            -7 seven days

>         radio & look-            -

>         ing at the s-            -

>         ky a bit fog-            .

>         gy the-

>         day is-

>         hardly-

>         over t-

>         he rad-

>         io tel-

>         ls who-

>         i am w-

>         hooo i-

>         am    -

>         da-

>         y -

>         af-

>         te-

>         r -

>         da-

>         y -

>         -

>         -

>         -

> cos'altro si puo' dire alla fine di una

> giornata invernale? le ombre della nott

> e stanno gia' avvicinandosi, cos'e' un

> satori a parigi, a londra, a phoenix, o

> qui a mestre the cyber venicesque other

> side of the moon world?

>         -

>         -

>         -

>         r

>         i

>         n

>         a

>         l

>         d

>         o

>         -

>         -

>         -

> beat heart beat heart beat heart beat heart

>         -

>         -

>         -

> SCREEEEEEEAMM! ode to-day       ODE TO-DAY!

>         -

>         -

>         THE

> E L E C T R I C

> T R A N S F O R M E R

>         -

>         -

>         -

> is well working in the factory

>         -

>         -

>         -

> a tribute to d.r.

>         -

>         -

>         -

 

 

wonderfulbeautifulloveitmagnificantspinsmysynapsesgottaloveyourwordskeepontyping

 gogogo

 

david rhaesa

in mesa

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 29 Dec 1997 18:40:47 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Satori in Phoenix

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

i'm lost. what exactly is satori that it's so great? i thought it was just a

book or something. anyone care to enlighten me?

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:41:42 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>

Subject:      Re: Satori in Phoenix

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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nothing and nobody in life are a sure thing.

 

david rhaesa

in mesa

 

Diane Carter wrote:

 

> > RACE wrote:

> >

> > This thread involves the peculiarities of existence finishing Maggie

> > Cassidy and beginning Satori in Paris while spending the holidays in

> > Phoenix.

>

> It has been very quiet here on the beat-l.  What did Maggie Cassidy have

> to say to you about the peculiarities of existence?

> DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 29 Dec 1997 18:44:20 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Glenn Cooper <coopergw@MPX.COM.AU>

Subject:      Personal to Michael Nally

In-Reply-To:  <8b5765b3.34a53fdf@aol.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Michael,

 

Neither of your email addresses work. Keep bouncing.

 

Yes, go ahead, use "Sunlight Dies With The Roses" as you wish. I look

forward to seeing the end result. Checked out your site. Looks like it'll

be a good one.

 

Glenn.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 29 Dec 1997 21:53:59 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Burgwine <Burgwine@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      No Subject

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

If at all possible, could you subscribe me to your mailing list?

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 29 Dec 1997 21:49:58 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>

Subject:      Re: Satori in Phoenix

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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Aeronwytru wrote:

 

> i'm lost. what exactly is satori that it's so great? i thought it was just a

> book or something. anyone care to enlighten me?

 

"Somewhere during my ten days in Paris (AND Brittany) [and could easily have

been Phoenix AND Mesa] I received an illumination of some kind that seems to've

changed me again, towards what I suppose'll be my pattern for another seven

years or more: a SATORI: the Japanese word for 'sudden illumination,' 'sudden

awakening' or simply 'kick in the eye.'  Whatever, something DID happen and in

my first reveries after the trip and I'm back home regrouping ...."  Jack

Kerouac, Satori in Paris, p.1

 

Can't enlighten ya further - better to find out for yerself.  Experience your

own satori and tell us all how it smelled!

 

So does anyone have insight on the difference between satori as used here and

epiphany as used elsewhere?

 

david

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 29 Dec 1997 21:19:59 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Satori in Phoenix

 

in my Oxford Dictionary epiphany involves the appearance of a god or

demi-god.  satori either doesn't involve any gods or may, but doesn't have

to.  depends on which form of Buddhism, i suppose.

 

ciao, sherri

-----Original Message-----

From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Monday, December 29, 1997 9:10 PM

Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix

 

 

>Aeronwytru wrote:

>

>> i'm lost. what exactly is satori that it's so great? i thought it was

just a

>> book or something. anyone care to enlighten me?

>

>"Somewhere during my ten days in Paris (AND Brittany) [and could easily

have

>been Phoenix AND Mesa] I received an illumination of some kind that seems

to've

>changed me again, towards what I suppose'll be my pattern for another seven

>years or more: a SATORI: the Japanese word for 'sudden illumination,'

'sudden

>awakening' or simply 'kick in the eye.'  Whatever, something DID happen and

in

>my first reveries after the trip and I'm back home regrouping ...."  Jack

>Kerouac, Satori in Paris, p.1

>

>Can't enlighten ya further - better to find out for yerself.  Experience

your

>own satori and tell us all how it smelled!

>

>So does anyone have insight on the difference between satori as used here

and

>epiphany as used elsewhere?

>

>david

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 29 Dec 1997 21:37:20 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mary Maconnell <MMACONNELL@MAIL.EWU.EDU>

Subject:      New/"Kerouac:  The Essence of Jack"

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

 

Hi.  I'm new to the list and probably shouldn't be posting until I sit and

read letters for a few days but I'm posting nonetheless.  I've read Jack

and loved him but what spurred me to join a mailing list was this show I

caught in Seattle:  "Kerouac: The Essence of Jack."  Probably some of you

have seen it and know what I'm talking about.  Vincent Balestri performs

this one-man show where he plays Jack and *IS* Jack.  I'm not going to

be unpurposefully redundant in telling you all about it because it's

probably already been discussed here.  But I was amazed and mesmerized

and it was the best live theater thing I have ever seen in my life.

 

So I'm glad there's a mailing list for this and so far I've read really

great things and I'm looking forward to reading even more.  :)

 

Mary

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 29 Dec 1997 22:35:18 +0000

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Satori in Phoenix

MIME-Version: 1.0

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> Race wrote:

>

> so did i miss anything while i was incommunicado?

>

> David

 

Missed almost nothing as far as I can tell--but then I was incommunicado for

a long time to.  Good to have you back, and with a recent satori--even

better.  Just make sure you eat the right cactus!

 

James

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 30 Dec 1997 02:45:12 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         VegasDaddy <VegasDaddy@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Satori in Phoenix

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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"Beat Zen" is something that we all I think need to watch out for.  It's

wonderful that Kerouac and Gary Snyder and Alan Watts and all those brilliant

poetic angels with Western origins developed a penchant for Buddhism,

especially Zen..but I think there was a huge gap inherent in this Beat Zen

(especially in Kerouac's arena), and we should all exercise caution when

throwing around our Zen Buddhist phrases.  Thru Time Zen monks in the Far East

have practiced, studied sutras, and gone half-mad on the path to experiencing

bodhi, or satori, or enlightenment (and Gautama Buddha himself, well we know

what ordeals preceded his "satori") and these are people whose lives were

wholly devoted to the experience of their Buddhism, down to the last teacup.

It's fantastic to experience insights into our own lives, especially when on

the road, and I give props to all who see deeper into themselves, I give holy

praises (to people like this cat who just got back...name David?)because we

all should be feeling insights into where and who and why we are...but I just

feel and have felt for a while that Kerouac's use of the word satori should

perhaps be taken lightly, more lightly perhaps than D.T. Suzuki's (or another

East-West Zen master's ) use of the word.  I am in love with Kerouac's

writings but I still feel a bit cynical about his Zen...partly because I know

that I'm constantly equating myself and my own situations to Jack's (regarding

his thoughts on Zen), and I feel that the Zen about which he wrote and which

he experienced, and which I often believe to experience, is, i don't

know...there's some dualism which shouldn't be there, some lack of humility,

something entirely too Western and empty, or perhaps not empty enough.

A.C.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 30 Dec 1997 10:35:57 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Allen Ginsberg & Ronald Reagan.

In-Reply-To:  <199712291841.MAA08366@dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

...

<<Ah love is so sweet in the Spring time,>>

       Jeanette McDonald sang

              three decades ago

       on marble balustrade in giant darkness

       downtown Paterson Fabian Theater balcony

       I wept, How soft flesh is-

Watching boyish Ronald Reagan

         emote

             his shadow

                  across the 'Thirties

                         Same black vastness

                                  pierced

                                      by emotion

          melancholy toward the stars-

Political planets whirling round the Sun,

...

a fragment by Allen Ginsberg, IRON HORSE, 22-23th july 1966.

 

the above fragment from IRON HORSE is nice as a back to

the future plot where Ginsberg in the Fabian (leftist society)

weeps for the future political planet of ronald reagan (the

'81-'89 Us of America president)

 

saluti,

Rinaldo

-------

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 30 Dec 1997 05:38:02 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>

Subject:      "BeatZen" (was Re: Satori in Phoenix)

MIME-Version: 1.0

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seems like what your saying here might make a bit of sense.  least something to

dream about a bit over my morning coffee as my brother's cats -- precious and

bob-cat fondle my legs.  Wondering if you find "any" Western uses of Zen phrases

reasonable.  I have to say I feel an uneasiness squirm in my stomach at the

 number

of "zenishistic" books at the Mall bookstores of America and think of the vast

uses and misuses of phrases and words in a viral departure from traditional

meanings.

 

VegasDaddy wrote:

 

> "Beat Zen" is something that we all I think need to watch out for.  It's

> wonderful that Kerouac and Gary Snyder and Alan Watts and all those brilliant

> poetic angels with Western origins developed a penchant for Buddhism,

> especially Zen.

 

I think that my penchant probably began with Watts but I found more interesting

accounts in the writings of Blyth, Herrigel(sp?), and Suzuki.  While i didn't

bring it on this trip, Blyth's "Games ZenMasters Play" is hilarious in many

regards.  But I think that it is easy for us to attempt to gain "satori" or some

other word by imagining or replaying the path of another found in a book and i

think this is an error of sorts.  Of course, we might happen along the way by a

repetitive pattern, but it seems that the experience which pops one's mind past

certain points on the perceptual map is usually unusual -- it isn't the usual

 path

of another because the experience has a peculiar and particular flavour (and

 odour

<grin>) for each person -- and for each moment of it.

 

I've had some difficulty in seeing the Zen in GS's writings.  I can imagine that

certain experiences in the natural world might bring some kick in one's

 awareness

-- and every so often a cricket's song will whack my ear just right -- but the

writing seems to me at least just propaganda against contemporary culture more

than accounts of illumination in the natural world.

 

 

> .but I think there was a huge gap inherent in this Beat Zen

> (especially in Kerouac's arena), and we should all exercise caution when

> throwing around our Zen Buddhist phrases.

 

I imagine you have something here with regards to Jack's uses.  It seems that JK

-- and one of the things I enjoy most about him -- was willing to take ideas,

notions, words and whatnot and make them his own and put them to his own uses.

Soooooo if one is interested in strict and cautionary use of language JK would

 not

be a primer of the path probably.  But - this irreverance on his part might be

 one

of the conditions required for sliding (or zooming) past the viral control of

certain words in the world today.

 

 

> Thru Time Zen monks in the Far East

> have practiced, studied sutras, and gone half-mad on the path to experiencing

> bodhi, or satori, or enlightenment (and Gautama Buddha himself, well we know

> what ordeals preceded his "satori") and these are people whose lives were

> wholly devoted to the experience of their Buddhism, down to the last teacup.

 

Teacup! -- beautiful and flower arranging and this and that and watching Alice

with my niece and nephew I'd probably suggest the half mad art of hat-wearing

 (of

which i'm closer to the angle of illumination than with tea, flowers, or

archery)...

 

 

> It's fantastic to experience insights into our own lives, especially when on

> the road, and I give props to all who see deeper into themselves, I give holy

> praises (to people like this cat who just got back...name David?)because we

> all should be feeling insights into where and who and why we are.

 

backtoya with the praises (but not so holy) for these thoughts (from

 David?race?)

insights into How we are can be nice as well.

 

 

> ..but I just

> feel and have felt for a while that Kerouac's use of the word satori should

> perhaps be taken lightly, more lightly perhaps than D.T. Suzuki's (or another

> East-West Zen master's ) use of the word.

 

And so where would you recommend one turn - or to whom?  Are you saying that the

bridge between the experiences of East-West socio-culture are too vast to

translate from East to West or West to East --- not just in words but in deeds

 and

attitude/orientation it would seem?  Where does this leave us in the art of

how-ing our experiences.

 

 

> I am in love with Kerouac's

> writings but I still feel a bit cynical about his Zen...partly because I know

> that I'm constantly equating myself and my own situations to Jack's (regarding

> his thoughts on Zen), and I feel that the Zen about which he wrote and which

> he experienced, and which I often believe to experience, is, i don't

> know...there's some dualism which shouldn't be there, some lack of humility,

> something entirely too Western and empty, or perhaps not empty enough.

> A.C.

 

 

something entirely too Western and empty or perhaps not empty enough -

i think that is REALLY funny.  it's so easy to slam and scream at the emptiness

 of

living in Phoenix or the Plains and then turn in hope of an emptiness that is

BETTER or MORE EMPTY.  The slamming and screaming seem to be the lack of

 humility

-- and sometimes it feels that way about any writing as well (or is that just an

excuse for slow output on other projects?) .... when the screaming fades would

 the

illuminati of Western emptiness be so horrible ---and to draw on Rinaldo's

Ginsberg/Reagan post --- this probably extends as far as Ronnie.  Or as far back

as Ike tied to Burroughs in a letter ...

 

and if you tried to understand any of this ... well ... that was your choice.

 

david rhaesa (race)

coffee tastes the same

in Mesa

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 30 Dec 1997 05:50:09 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>

Subject:      Re: Satori in Phoenix

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

as i recall from some years back OED usually gives the context (in tiny tiny

tiny print) and i was wondering from where they drew these meanings for epiphany

and satori.............

 

david rhaesa (race)

looking for Abraxas in Mesa

 

sherri wrote:

 

> in my Oxford Dictionary epiphany involves the appearance of a god or

> demi-god.  satori either doesn't involve any gods or may, but doesn't have

> to.  depends on which form of Buddhism, i suppose.

>

> ciao, sherri

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>

> To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

> Date: Monday, December 29, 1997 9:10 PM

> Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix

>

> >Aeronwytru wrote:

> >

> >> i'm lost. what exactly is satori that it's so great? i thought it was

> just a

> >> book or something. anyone care to enlighten me?

> >

> >"Somewhere during my ten days in Paris (AND Brittany) [and could easily

> have

> >been Phoenix AND Mesa] I received an illumination of some kind that seems

> to've

> >changed me again, towards what I suppose'll be my pattern for another seven

> >years or more: a SATORI: the Japanese word for 'sudden illumination,'

> 'sudden

> >awakening' or simply 'kick in the eye.'  Whatever, something DID happen and

> in

> >my first reveries after the trip and I'm back home regrouping ...."  Jack

> >Kerouac, Satori in Paris, p.1

> >

> >Can't enlighten ya further - better to find out for yerself.  Experience

> your

> >own satori and tell us all how it smelled!

> >

> >So does anyone have insight on the difference between satori as used here

> and

> >epiphany as used elsewhere?

> >

> >david

> >

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 30 Dec 1997 10:31:50 -0500

Reply-To:     "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@uwaterloo.ca>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Neil M. Hennessy" <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Re: Permutation poems

Comments: cc: Florian Cramer <cantsin@ZEDAT.FU-BERLIN.DE>

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.SGI.3.96.971227210531.18998A-100000@komma.fddi2.fu-berlin.de>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Sat, 27 Dec 1997, Florian Cramer wrote:

 

> took me long until I stumbled over information that Brion Gysin wrote

> "permutation poems" around 1960. This is highly interesting for me, since

> it was the same time when Raymond Queneau wrote his permuting "100.000

> Billion Poems" and when the information theorist Abraham A. Moles

> published his "Manifesto of Permutation Art".

 

There are Gysin permutation poems in _The Exterminator_, which was

published in 1960:

 

TITLE: The exterminator / William Burroughs, Brion Gysin. -

IMPRINT: San Francisco : Auerhahn Press, 1960.

NOTES: Narrative and poems. * Poems and calligraphs by Brion Gysin.

LANGUAGE: eng

PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION: 51 p. : ill. ; 24 cm.

ASSOCIATED NAME(S): Gysin, Brion. * Haselwood, Dave L. - Book designer. *

          Haselwood, Dave L. - Printer. * McIlroy, James F. - Printer. *

          Auerhahn Press - Private Press.

 

This was the first "cut-up" work Burroughs and Gysin published in

collaboration, although it came after the publication of _Minutes to Go_,

which also included work by Sinclair Beiles, and Gregory Corso. I haven't

yet read _Minutes to Go_, so I don't know if there are permutation poems

in there (anyone?), although I imagine there is, since that was extent of

his poetic contribution to The Exterminator (excepting, of course, the

calligraphic work):

 

TITLE: Minutes to go [by] Sinclair Beiles [and others.]

PUBLISHED: [Paris The English Bookshop] [c1960]

PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION: 63p.

SERIES: Two cities editions

 

There was a second edition that I am told is identical to the first (which

cannot be said for many books Burroughs has been involved with):

 

TITLE: Minutes to go [by] Sinclair Beiles [and others]

PUBLISHED: [San Francisco] Beach Books, Texts & Documents [c1968]

PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION: 63p.

 

I vaguely remember hearing that a permutation of Gysin's phrase "Rub out

the Word" appeared in _Minutes to Go_ but I'd check with someone who's

read the book. There are also recordings of Gysin reading his permutation

poems, including "Kick that Habit Man", "Junk is No Good Baby" and some

others.

 

As for finding the above books, if you wanted to buy them, you'd have to

shell out anywhere between $85 to $200 American dollars for The

Exterminator, and I've seen the first edition of Minutes to Go at a wide

range of prices from $100 to $250, and the second edition at around

$40-$80.

 

> You might also be interested

> to hear that the "fold-in" method was prototyped in a novel by Marc

> Saporta which appeared in the early 1960s.

 

Can you give a reference where I could find information about this?

The first book Burroughs wrote/assembled using fold-in texts-- _The Soft

Machine_ -- appeared in 1961 from The Olympia Press in Paris.

 

> It seems like the mutual

> influences on the development of combinatory/permutational literature in

> early 1960s France (where I guess Gysin was living at that time) still

> needs to be researched, in case I'm not telling you old stories here.

 

Certainly does. The 100,000 sonnet book gets a lot of attention from

people doing work on hypertext theory and literature. And yes, both

Burroughs and Gysin were living in Paris in the early 60's.

 

> Hence my question: Are Gysin's "permutation poems" published in books?

 

Yes, the one's above.

 

> Are there any essays or commentaries about them?

 

I haven't seen any.

 

> In the Web, I found information that Gysin created these poems with the

> help of a computer; however, the Web page didn't mention the source of

> this information, so I'm a bit suspicious.

 

I can't confirm that this is true, or offer a source (other than the

Burroughs bio's), but both Burroughs and Gysin worked with Ian

Sommerville, a computer scientist from Britain, on tape recorder

experiments, so it is possible that he helped Gysin with his

permutations.

 

> Did Gysin make any statements about his permutational poetry in

> interviews?

 

The best books to look into are _Here to Go: Planet R-101_ which is

constructed as a series of interviews with Gysin, _Brion Gysin Let the

Mice In_ ,  and _Man from Nowhere: Storming the Citadels of

Enlightenment_. Mike Cakebread might be able to tell you if there's

anything about permutations in the Man from Nowhere book (Mike?)

 

> ... It seems really difficult

> researching this, since most of Gysin's books are small press and out of

> print

 

Yup, it sure is hard. I don't know what it's like in Europe, but decent

university libraries in N. America should have most of these books. For

instance, The University of Toronto libraries have all of the books I've

mentioned except for Man from Nowhere, although many of them are kept in

the rare book collection. I don't know if they do

inter-(continental)library loans though.

 

> and I guess that the majority of Gysin criticism has been published

> in the underground press.

 

There was a chap-book published for Burroughs' 80th birthday that had a

piece that took the oft-cited words of Hassan I Sabbah "Nothing

is True. Everything is Permitted" and transformed them into "Nothing is

True. Everything is Permuted". I'll check it out next time I'm at the

homestead to see if it's of interest.

 

Hope I've been of some assistance.

 

Neil

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 30 Dec 1997 07:36:34 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: "BeatZen" (was Re: Satori in Phoenix)

 

while i like to see neither misuse of nor pablum philosophy - a philosophy

or religion is dead if it does not continue to evolve as humankind learns.

for zen to deny any great western insights or experiences, and there are

some, would mean that zen was getting in its own way, which would mean it

would be denying one of its own precepts:  "if you meet the Buddha, kill

him".

 

paix, sherri

-----Original Message-----

From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Tuesday, December 30, 1997 4:48 AM

Subject: "BeatZen" (was Re: Satori in Phoenix)

 

 

>seems like what your saying here might make a bit of sense.  least

something to

>dream about a bit over my morning coffee as my brother's cats -- precious

and

>bob-cat fondle my legs.  Wondering if you find "any" Western uses of Zen

phrases

>reasonable.  I have to say I feel an uneasiness squirm in my stomach at the

> number

>of "zenishistic" books at the Mall bookstores of America and think of the

vast

>uses and misuses of phrases and words in a viral departure from traditional

>meanings.

>

>VegasDaddy wrote:

>

>> "Beat Zen" is something that we all I think need to watch out for.  It's

>> wonderful that Kerouac and Gary Snyder and Alan Watts and all those

brilliant

>> poetic angels with Western origins developed a penchant for Buddhism,

>> especially Zen.

>

>I think that my penchant probably began with Watts but I found more

interesting

>accounts in the writings of Blyth, Herrigel(sp?), and Suzuki.  While i

didn't

>bring it on this trip, Blyth's "Games ZenMasters Play" is hilarious in many

>regards.  But I think that it is easy for us to attempt to gain "satori" or

some

>other word by imagining or replaying the path of another found in a book

and i

>think this is an error of sorts.  Of course, we might happen along the way

by a

>repetitive pattern, but it seems that the experience which pops one's mind

past

>certain points on the perceptual map is usually unusual -- it isn't the

usual

> path

>of another because the experience has a peculiar and particular flavour

(and

> odour

><grin>) for each person -- and for each moment of it.

>

>I've had some difficulty in seeing the Zen in GS's writings.  I can imagine

that

>certain experiences in the natural world might bring some kick in one's

> awareness

>-- and every so often a cricket's song will whack my ear just right -- but

the

>writing seems to me at least just propaganda against contemporary culture

more

>than accounts of illumination in the natural world.

>

>

>> .but I think there was a huge gap inherent in this Beat Zen

>> (especially in Kerouac's arena), and we should all exercise caution when

>> throwing around our Zen Buddhist phrases.

>

>I imagine you have something here with regards to Jack's uses.  It seems

that JK

>-- and one of the things I enjoy most about him -- was willing to take

ideas,

>notions, words and whatnot and make them his own and put them to his own

uses.

>Soooooo if one is interested in strict and cautionary use of language JK

would

> not

>be a primer of the path probably.  But - this irreverance on his part might

be

> one

>of the conditions required for sliding (or zooming) past the viral control

of

>certain words in the world today.

>

>

>> Thru Time Zen monks in the Far East

>> have practiced, studied sutras, and gone half-mad on the path to

experiencing

>> bodhi, or satori, or enlightenment (and Gautama Buddha himself, well we

know

>> what ordeals preceded his "satori") and these are people whose lives were

>> wholly devoted to the experience of their Buddhism, down to the last

teacup.

>

>Teacup! -- beautiful and flower arranging and this and that and watching

Alice

>with my niece and nephew I'd probably suggest the half mad art of

hat-wearing

> (of

>which i'm closer to the angle of illumination than with tea, flowers, or

>archery)...

>

>

>> It's fantastic to experience insights into our own lives, especially when

on

>> the road, and I give props to all who see deeper into themselves, I give

holy

>> praises (to people like this cat who just got back...name David?)because

we

>> all should be feeling insights into where and who and why we are.

>

>backtoya with the praises (but not so holy) for these thoughts (from

> David?race?)

>insights into How we are can be nice as well.

>

>

>> ..but I just

>> feel and have felt for a while that Kerouac's use of the word satori

should

>> perhaps be taken lightly, more lightly perhaps than D.T. Suzuki's (or

another

>> East-West Zen master's ) use of the word.

>

>And so where would you recommend one turn - or to whom?  Are you saying

that the

>bridge between the experiences of East-West socio-culture are too vast to

>translate from East to West or West to East --- not just in words but in

deeds

> and

>attitude/orientation it would seem?  Where does this leave us in the art of

>how-ing our experiences.

>

>

>> I am in love with Kerouac's

>> writings but I still feel a bit cynical about his Zen...partly because I

know

>> that I'm constantly equating myself and my own situations to Jack's

(regarding

>> his thoughts on Zen), and I feel that the Zen about which he wrote and

which

>> he experienced, and which I often believe to experience, is, i don't

>> know...there's some dualism which shouldn't be there, some lack of

humility,

>> something entirely too Western and empty, or perhaps not empty enough.

>> A.C.

>

>

>something entirely too Western and empty or perhaps not empty enough -

>i think that is REALLY funny.  it's so easy to slam and scream at the

emptiness

> of

>living in Phoenix or the Plains and then turn in hope of an emptiness that

is

>BETTER or MORE EMPTY.  The slamming and screaming seem to be the lack of

> humility

>-- and sometimes it feels that way about any writing as well (or is that

just an

>excuse for slow output on other projects?) .... when the screaming fades

would

> the

>illuminati of Western emptiness be so horrible ---and to draw on Rinaldo's

>Ginsberg/Reagan post --- this probably extends as far as Ronnie.  Or as far

back

>as Ike tied to Burroughs in a letter ...

>

>and if you tried to understand any of this ... well ... that was your

choice.

>

>david rhaesa (race)

>coffee tastes the same

>in Mesa

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 30 Dec 1997 07:37:47 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Satori in Phoenix

 

epiphany: 'Mid Eng from Greek epiphaneia 'manifestation', from epiphaino,

'reveal'

 

satori:  Japanese, 'awakening'

 

so it seems to me one could use the word epiphany in place of satori, but

the sense could be misunderstood. plus epiphany carries the sense that

someone or thing outside the self originated the experience, which satori

does not seem to imply.

 

ciao, sherri

-----Original Message-----

From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Tuesday, December 30, 1997 4:50 AM

Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix

 

 

>as i recall from some years back OED usually gives the context (in tiny

tiny

>tiny print) and i was wondering from where they drew these meanings for

epiphany

>and satori.............

>

>david rhaesa (race)

>looking for Abraxas in Mesa

>

>sherri wrote:

>

>> in my Oxford Dictionary epiphany involves the appearance of a god or

>> demi-god.  satori either doesn't involve any gods or may, but doesn't

have

>> to.  depends on which form of Buddhism, i suppose.

>>

>> ciao, sherri

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>

>> To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>> Date: Monday, December 29, 1997 9:10 PM

>> Subject: Re: Satori in Phoenix

>>

>> >Aeronwytru wrote:

>> >

>> >> i'm lost. what exactly is satori that it's so great? i thought it was

>> just a

>> >> book or something. anyone care to enlighten me?

>> >

>> >"Somewhere during my ten days in Paris (AND Brittany) [and could easily

>> have

>> >been Phoenix AND Mesa] I received an illumination of some kind that

seems

>> to've

>> >changed me again, towards what I suppose'll be my pattern for another

seven

>> >years or more: a SATORI: the Japanese word for 'sudden illumination,'

>> 'sudden

>> >awakening' or simply 'kick in the eye.'  Whatever, something DID happen

and

>> in

>> >my first reveries after the trip and I'm back home regrouping ...."

Jack

>> >Kerouac, Satori in Paris, p.1

>> >

>> >Can't enlighten ya further - better to find out for yerself.  Experience

>> your

>> >own satori and tell us all how it smelled!

>> >

>> >So does anyone have insight on the difference between satori as used

here

>> and

>> >epiphany as used elsewhere?

>> >

>> >david

>> >

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 30 Dec 1997 19:03:22 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      BeatSuperNovaUpdated

In-Reply-To:  <199712291841.MAA08366@dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>Return-Path: <npk@powertech.no>

>Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 22:41:12 +0100

>From: Nicholas Knutsen <npk@powertech.no>

>To: rasa@gpnet.it

>Subject: New beats for the list

>

>How about JIM JARMUSCH, a filmmaker who is very influenced by the beat

>style. And he works a lot with Tom Waits, and also JOHN LURIE, a

>musician who is not on your list either.

>And then there's LOU REED...

>

>Nick

>

>--

>--==--==--==--

>

>-- Mork, Where'd you get the dead Mindys..?

>-- They're not dead, Mind. It's just my personal pile of perkiness.

>

 

Nick, much thanks!

 

tante grazie for yr help to improve the beat web site,

i've added John Lurie to the list of beats,

have a happy new year!

 

saluti cari,

Rinaldo.

--------

p.s. i posted in the following url a picture of John Lurie (photographed

by Wim Wender)

 

http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/lurie_john_at_soho.html

 

 

----------------------------------

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------------------------------

last update 30th december 1997

------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 30 Dec 1997 13:53:54 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Satori in Phoenix

In-Reply-To:  <5096c7dd.34a8a68a@aol.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

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On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, VegasDaddy wrote:

 

> "Beat Zen" is something that we all I think need to watch out for.  It's

> wonderful that Kerouac and Gary Snyder and Alan Watts and all those brilliant

> poetic angels with Western origins developed a penchant for Buddhism,

> especially Zen..but I think there was a huge gap inherent in this Beat Zen

> (especially in Kerouac's arena), and we should all exercise caution when

> throwing around our Zen Buddhist phrases.  Thru Time Zen monks in the Far East

> have practiced, studied sutras, and gone half-mad on the path to experiencing

> bodhi, or satori, or enlightenment (and Gautama Buddha himself, well we know

> what ordeals preceded his "satori") and these are people whose lives were

> wholly devoted to the experience of their Buddhism, down to the last teacup.

> It's fantastic to experience insights into our own lives, especially when on

> the road, and I give props to all who see deeper into themselves, I give holy

> praises (to people like this cat who just got back...name David?)because we

> all should be feeling insights into where and who and why we are...but I just

> feel and have felt for a while that Kerouac's use of the word satori should

> perhaps be taken lightly, more lightly perhaps than D.T. Suzuki's (or another

> East-West Zen master's ) use of the word.  I am in love with Kerouac's

> writings but I still feel a bit cynical about his Zen...partly because I know

> that I'm constantly equating myself and my own situations to Jack's (regarding

> his thoughts on Zen), and I feel that the Zen about which he wrote and which

> he experienced, and which I often believe to experience, is, i don't

> know...there's some dualism which shouldn't be there, some lack of humility,

> something entirely too Western and empty, or perhaps not empty enough.

> A.C.

>

 

if all is emptiness (sunyata), how can something be 'not empty enough'

 

 

 

 

 

eric

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 30 Dec 1997 14:06:43 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Satori in Phoenix

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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Hey Vegas

         I believe you have a valid point here. I also believe that what kept

JK from totally getting into a "real" Zen was his inherent hangups via Roman

Catholicism. A tough nut to break away from in any case. Satori doesnt come

cheap, if ever. If you look at it is as simple little breakthroughs i feel you

might miss the total picture. This is only my opinion, and coming from one who

has been away from Zen for 20 some years and now trying to work my way back

into it. I love Some of the Dharma but I also realize that it was written by a

man who was sorta confused when he wrote it. I think we should appreciate what

the Beats were doing when they got into Buddhism and Zen, and in the case of

Snyder, actually made a comitment to it. Also would have to include Whalen in

there. Its a hard road. I hope to finish it. Not holding my breath, then again

I am.

                                                GT

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 30 Dec 1997 14:40:58 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: New/"Kerouac:  The Essence of Jack"

In-Reply-To:  Message of Mon, 29 Dec 1997 21:37:20 -0800 from

              <MMACONNELL@MAIL.EWU.EDU>

 

On the contrary, Mary, we haven't heard much on this play.  Any further comment

s you have will be of interest.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 30 Dec 1997 16:43:31 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Hpark4 <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: New/"Kerouac:  The Essence of Jack"

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Thanks to Diane DeRooy I saw the play - the Essence of Jack,  while visiting

Seattle this fall.  It was excellent.

 

It has run in Seattle, at a small theatre, the Velvet Elvis just off Pioneer

Square (the original skid row), for over a year.  I'm not sure if it is still

running, it has been held over several times.

 

It opens with a fine jazz combo.  From there it is a series of events from

Kerouac's life.  It sticks pretty close to the facts as I understand them with

some "license" when the actor gets into the rhelm of how Kerouac felt about

certain things.  The territiory is pretty familier - Gerards death, football

days,  meeting Cassidy and Ginsberg, troubles getting On The Road published,

positive and negative reactions to OTR, troubles brought on by sudden fame,

the Steve Allen show, the breakdown at Big Sur, the Merry Pranksters visit,

the alcohol soaked 60's.  Readings from various Kerouac books are sprinkled

throughout.  At the end Vincent takes questions -- mostly from

twentysomethings who know a little, but not a lot, about Kerouac.

 

I highly recommend the play to anyone visiting Seattle.

 

Howard Park

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 30 Dec 1997 17:08:42 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         VegasDaddy <VegasDaddy@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: "BeatZen" (was Re: Satori in Phoenix)

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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In a message dated 97-12-30 07:38:53 EST, you write:

 

<< I imagine you have something here with regards to Jack's uses.  It seems

that JK

 -- and one of the things I enjoy most about him -- was willing to take ideas,

 notions, words and whatnot and make them his own and put them to his own

uses.

 Soooooo if one is interested in strict and cautionary use of language JK

would

  not

 be a primer of the path probably.  But - this irreverance on his part might

be

  one

 of the conditions required for sliding (or zooming) past the viral control of

 certain words in the world today. >>

 

 

David - Very true, Jack's non-conformity, or "irreverance" both on and off the

page are what made him so beautiful, and as an original stylist he is

immortal.  But I don't think that he was really ever able to grasp Buddhism

beyond an intellectual level.  I think that if Jack had really had a genuine

satori, then he would not have died by the bottle.

 

As for living in Pheonix or the Plains, I don't think that would put a damper

on anyone's Zen. I just think that here in the Western world we tend to view

life very differently than they view it in the Far East, and when Americans

take Zen Buddhist concepts and play around with them, very often their Zen

becomes defiled confused and futile.  I'm not saying that a Westerner can't

practice Zen or gain new insights into Buddhism or even realize Prajna, that

is, experience satori thru seeing into their own Buddha-natures...but we

definitely tend to intellectualize these things and adapt them to our somewhat

fucked up American way of looking at things, at least when we adopt Zen.

It is one (and a wonderful) thing to gain insight into one's life.  It is

another (and not very common) thing to experience a Zen satori, to become one

with your no-mind or Unconscious, or to see into the vast emptiness of one's

own self-nature.

Tho I do hear what you're saying about irreverance to language, and I think

that you are absolutely right and most of the Time I say screw traditional

uses of words...but with Zen Buddhism I feel that we must look to the East,

and BeatZen is great but when we read it and about it I think we need to

realize that it's not true Zen teaching...

Anthony C.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 30 Dec 1997 17:31:14 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Permutation poems

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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what the heck is a permutation poem? help! i really don't know very much about

this sort of stuff and i hate not knowing things. can someone tell me what it

is in non-technical (read---> layman's) terms and send me a copy of one?

thanks so much.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 30 Dec 1997 16:27:20 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>

Subject:      Re: BeatSuperNovaUpdated

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

 

 

> ----------------------------------

> Beats:The List

> Beat SuperNova

> an absolutely shit kicking list

> http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm

> ----------------------------------

>

> Michael McClure

 

i just found a copy of something called "The Beard" by MM today.  The

afterward said it was performed four times before police intervention.  I

thought that was kinda funny.  Anybody read it?

 

 

david rhaesa (race)

winding down the year in mesa

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 00:26:50 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: "BeatZen" (was Re: Satori in Phoenix)

In-Reply-To:  <074cc1138151ec7UPIMSSMTPUSR04@email.msn.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

"Every healthy culture provides for there being non-joiners. Sanyassi,

hermits, drop-outs too...Every healthy society has to tolerate this... "

--Alan Watts.

i have some problems concerning why Jack Kerouac's rejected

the zen experience it seem to me zen is near the catholic feeling

of the life, rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 30 Dec 1997 15:38:33 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>

Subject:      Re: "BeatZen" (was Re: Satori in Phoenix)

In-Reply-To:  <3.0.1.32.19971231002650.0068c89c@pop.gpnet.it>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Wed, 31 Dec 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

 

> i have some problems concerning why Jack Kerouac's rejected

> the zen experience it seem to me zen is near the catholic feeling

> of the life, rinaldo.

 

perhaps because kerouac had so cleansed his consciousness of objectivity

and objective structures, the Nothingness of zen would have been too much

for him. his was essentially a catholic mind, and as such was more at

home in ritual and pageantry than in the zen void. he was like watts in

that - i think watts had very little affection for the void of zen ... his

wonderful _way of zen_ book turns the patriarchs and disciplies into a

colorful pageant through time anyway; has more of a mahayana / tibetan

buddhist feeling.

 

 

 

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

  Michael R. Brown                        foosi@global.california.com

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

 

 

                Find out the laws then do what you will.

                                - Susannah Thompson

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 30 Dec 1997 17:45:53 -0800

Reply-To:     Sherri <love_singing@email.msn.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@EMAIL.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: "BeatZen" (was Re: Satori in Phoenix)

 

Anthony C. wrote:

 

>But I don't think that he was really ever able to grasp Buddhism

>beyond an intellectual level.  I think that if Jack had really had a

>genuine satori, then he would not have died by the bottle.

 

while i would agree with you that satori is probably a rather rare

experience, not just in the western world, but in all of it, i would

strongly hesitate to judge anyone else's experience.  after all, it's only

experienced within one's own nature.  who is anyone to externally judge

that?  and who's to say that dying by the bottle wasn't JK's path?  i also

never felt that Jack was attempting to be only zen.  he looked into, at

least, mahayana buddhism and hinduism and found wisdom there as well.

perhaps, he sought to find those few basic, fundamental truths which seem to

run like a golden thread throughout this world's religions and philosophies,

looking to validate and more deeply understand them.

 

ciao, sherri

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 30 Dec 1997 22:40:34 +0000

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: BeatSuperNovaUpdated

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Rinaldo,

 

I like the new list.  Just a few minor arguments from me (also plead

ignorance on a few)

John Cage --Black Mtn and all, but beat?--a stretch

Malcolm Lowry--wonderful writer, but definitely not beat to me

Mark Shorer--don't see that one at all either--maybe my memory is wrong but

I remember him as pretty buttoned down and un beat--

 

but these are minor disagreements.  You have done a great service and it is

a wonderful list for suggesting a lot of directions to look.

 

James Stauffer

 

Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

 

> >Return-Path: <npk@powertech.no>

> >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 22:41:12 +0100

> >From: Nicholas Knutsen <npk@powertech.no>

> >To: rasa@gpnet.it

> >Subject: New beats for the list

> >

> >How about JIM JARMUSCH, a filmmaker who is very influenced by the beat

> >style. And he works a lot with Tom Waits, and also JOHN LURIE, a

> >musician who is not on your list either.

> >And then there's LOU REED...

> >

> >Nick

> >

> >--

> >--==--==--==--

> >

> >-- Mork, Where'd you get the dead Mindys..?

> >-- They're not dead, Mind. It's just my personal pile of perkiness.

> >

>

> Nick, much thanks!

>

> tante grazie for yr help to improve the beat web site,

> i've added John Lurie to the list of beats,

> have a happy new year!

>

> saluti cari,

> Rinaldo.

> --------

> p.s. i posted in the following url a picture of John Lurie (photographed

> by Wim Wender)

>

> http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/lurie_john_at_soho.html

>

> ----------------------------------

> Beats:The List

> Beat SuperNova

> an absolutely shit kicking list

> http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/beats.htm

> ----------------------------------

> Carl Adkins

> Willie Loco Alexander

> Donald Allen

> Steve Allen

> David Amram

> Kenneth Anger

> Jerry Aronson

> Al Aronowitz

> Mary Beach

> Amari Baraka (LeRoi Jones)

> Wallace Berman

> Stephen Jesse Bernstein

> Ted Berrigan

> Paul Blackburn

> Robin Blaser

> Richard Brautigan

> Bonnie Bremser

> Ray Bremser

> Chandler Brossard

> Lenny Bruce

> Charles Bukowski

> William S. Burroughs

> William S. Burroughs Jr.

> John Cage

> Edgar Cayce

> Caleb Carr

> Lucien Carr

> Paul Carroll

> Louis R Cartwright

> Carolyn Cassady

> Neal Cassady

> Norris Church

> Tom Clark

> Andy Clausen

> Leonard Cohen

> Al Cohn

> Bruce Conner

> Gregory Corso

> Robert Creeley

> Henry Cru

> Fielding Dawson

> Jay deFeo

> Robert De Niro

> Diane DiPrima

> John Doe

> Kirby Doyle

> Edward Dorn

> Robert Duncan

> Bob Dylan

> Larry Eigner

> Kenward Elmslie

> William Everson (Brother Antoninus)

> Mary Fabilli

> Larry Fagin

> Richard Farina

> Lawrence Ferlinghetti

> Tom Field

> Charles Henry Ford

> Charles Foster

> Robert Frank

> Allen Ginsberg

> John Giorno

> Paul Goodman

> Robert Gover

> James Grauerholz

> Morris Graves

> Emmet Grogan

> Brion Gysin

> Howard Hart

> Dave Hazelwood

> Wally Hedrick

> Abbie Hoffman

> John Clellon Holmes

> Herbert Huncke

> Evan Hunter

> William Inge

> Robinson Jeffers

> Ted Joans

> Joyce Johnson

> Lenore Kandel

> John Kelly

> Robert Kelly

> Jack Kerouac

> Jan Kerouac

> Ken Kesey

> Franz Kline

> Seymour Krim

> Paul Krassner

> Art Kunkin

> Tuli Kupferberg

> Joanne Kyger

> La Loca

> Philip Lamantia

> Jay Landesman

> Fran Landesman

> James Laughlin

> Denise Levertov

> Timothy Leary

> Alfred Leslie

> Lawrence Lipton

> Ron Loewinsohn

> Gerald Locklin

> Philomene Long

> Malcom Lowry

> John Lurie

> Bill MacNeill

> Norman Mailer

> Gerard Malanga

> Edward Marshall

> Peter Martin

> Lewis McAdams

> Joanna McClure

> Michael McClure

> Fred McDarrah

> Don McNeill

> Taylor Mead

> David Meltzer

> Jack Micheline

> Henry Miller

> John Montgomery

> Shigeyoshi (Shig) Murao

> Ken Nordine

> Harold Norse

> Frank O'Hara

> David Ohle

> Charles Olson

> Peter Orlovsky

> Kenneth Patchen

> Thomas Parkinson

> Claude Pelieu

> Nancy Peters

> Stuart Z. Perkoff

> Charles Plymell

> Dan Propper

> Lee Ranaldo

> Lou Reed

> Kenneth Rexroth

> Steve Richmond

> Frank Rios

> Edoardo Roditi

> Theodore Roethke

> Hugh Romney

> Michael Rumaker

> Ed Sanders

> Albert Saijo

> Mark Schorer

> Tony Scibella

> Hubert Jr. Selby

> Patti Smith

> Gary Snyder

> Carl Solomon

> Terry Southern

> Jack Spicer

> Hunter Stockton Thompson

> Bob Thiele

> John Thomas

> Mark Tobey

> Alexander Trocchi

> Giuseppe Ungaretti

> Charles Upton

> Janine Pommy Vega

> William T. Vollmann

> Tom Waits

> Anne Waldman

> Lewis Warsh

> Alan W. Watts

> Lew Welch (Lewis Barret Welch)

> Philip Whalen

> John Wieners

> Jonathan Williams

> William Carlos Williams

> Clay Wilson

> Ruth Witt-Diamant

> James Wright

> Zoot Simms

> Louis Zukofsky

> ------------------------------

> last update 30th december 1997

> ------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 02:21:27 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         NICO 88 <NICO88@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: BeatSuperNovaUpdated

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

hey, dont you guys think Jim Carroll's beat?

i mean if you're gonna name Lou Reed and Patti Smith "beats", well then...

 

oh, and why no Dennis Hopper??????

 

-- Ginny.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 13:19:02 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: "BeatZen" (was Re: Satori in Phoenix)

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.BSI.3.95.971230153355.13470B-100000@global.california .com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>On Wed, 31 Dec 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

>

>> i have some problems concerning why Jack Kerouac's rejected

>> the zen experience it seem to me zen is near the catholic feeling

>> of the life, rinaldo.

 

At 15.38 30/12/97 -0800, Michael R. Brown wrote:

>

>perhaps because kerouac had so cleansed his consciousness of objectivity

>and objective structures, the Nothingness of zen would have been too much

>for him. his was essentially a catholic mind, and as such was more at

>home in ritual and pageantry than in the zen void. [...]

>  Michael R. Brown                        foosi@global.california.com

 

michael,

i think, jack kerouac abandoned the countercultural movement

growing in the '60s (ginsberg, snyder, et cetera) for istance

he started the revisionism of the "beat" shifting the meaning

from "hey i'm beat" to "beatific" as in Saint Francesco way.

kerouac in his last years have a little problems with his old

beat friends (& wasn't present in the countercultural debate).

sometime expressed furore as for political or cultural performances

of his dated friends. anyway jack kerouac via the catholic

roman church has a reincarnation not a rebirth. in my opinion

the myth of the reincarnation of our own body (in flesh) and

not trasmigrate in other beings on this planet (kharma) is a strong

point favorauble to mother christian/catholic curch way of life

(i think of "visions of gerard"), &(sad) the good dies young...,

saluti rinaldo.

---------------

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 07:00:17 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>

Subject:      Re: New/"Kerouac:  The Essence of Jack"

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Looking forward to hearing more about Jack's Essence.

Please tell us more and more and more....

 

david rhaesa (race)

still in the Valley

 

Mary Maconnell wrote:

 

> Hi.  I'm new to the list and probably shouldn't be posting until I sit and

> read letters for a few days but I'm posting nonetheless.  I've read Jack

> and loved him but what spurred me to join a mailing list was this show I

> caught in Seattle:  "Kerouac: The Essence of Jack."  Probably some of you

> have seen it and know what I'm talking about.  Vincent Balestri performs

> this one-man show where he plays Jack and *IS* Jack.  I'm not going to

> be unpurposefully redundant in telling you all about it because it's

> probably already been discussed here.  But I was amazed and mesmerized

> and it was the best live theater thing I have ever seen in my life.

>

> So I'm glad there's a mailing list for this and so far I've read really

> great things and I'm looking forward to reading even more.  :)

>

> Mary

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 10:17:25 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      Last goodbye to Allen & Bill

In-Reply-To:  <34AA4FF0.F5BD7247@primenet.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

As 1997 comes to a close, so we say goodbye to the last year of the lives

of Allen Ginsberg and Bill Burroughs.  The coming year, and all the

coming years, will not seem as full without those two in the world.

 

Goodbye Allen...Goodbye Bill...your words will live on.

 

Next time Im at the White Horse, I'm going to drink a cold one in your

memories.

 

RJW

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 07:22:57 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael R. Brown" <foosi@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM>

Subject:      Re: Last goodbye to Allen & Bill

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.971231101354.18642A-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Wed, 31 Dec 1997, Richard Wallner wrote:

 

> As 1997 comes to a close, so we say goodbye to the last year of the lives

> of Allen Ginsberg and Bill Burroughs.  The coming year, and all the

> coming years, will not seem as full without those two in the world.

>

> Goodbye Allen...Goodbye Bill...your words will live on.

>

> Next time Im at the White Horse, I'm going to drink a cold one in your

> memories.

 

To paraphrase Bill's friend, the Bard of Avon,

 

They were men.

Take them all for all

And all in all,

Their like shall not come again.

 

 

 

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

  Michael R. Brown                        foosi@global.california.com

+ -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- + -- +

 

 

                Find out the laws then do what you will.

                                - Susannah Thompson

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:08:02 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>

Subject:      Hello Again

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     I'm back again, at least temporarily.  I thought I'd give the list

     another try, I've been watching for a few days and no one's used the

     dreaded E- word, (can't bear to even write the whole word, someone may

     bring the subject up again).

 

     Received a copy of Some of the Dharma for the holidays.  Anyone else

     currently in its throes?

 

     love and lilies,

 

     matt

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:00:07 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      ho ho holicay

Comments: To: stauffer@pacbell.net

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I am envious of you all, getting together in calif , sherri give marie a

hug, james, give sherri  a hug.  etc. my self i usually don't hug but if

i see david on his way back to salina i will give him a hug.  We have

been warned to watch out for beat zen signs so, i will watch out, eager

always to advance the warpage of an old religion. I am not sure that i

see zen in catholicism but it is probaly every and nowhere. so also i

will watch out in case jacks catholic whims start invading my

conciousness.

kick your heels

patricia

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:28:58 -0800

Reply-To:     Sherri <love_singing@email.msn.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@EMAIL.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Happy New Year

 

well, kids it's been wonderful, sad, tragic, wild, crazy year.  this list

has added a lot for me and i want to thank you all for all the great, crazy

and even inane thoughts that have run through the list.  always good to get

the brain cells stirred up.

 

anyway, i wish you all a beatific, wild, crazy, safe new year, and...

live, live, live like mad!!!

 

ciao, sherri

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:30:04 -0800

Reply-To:     Sherri <love_singing@email.msn.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@EMAIL.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: ho ho holicay

 

Patricia - we'll all give hugs in your name.  sure wish you were with us.

you can hug david for all of us, when he comes back through.  happy new

year!   sherri

-----Original Message-----

From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Wednesday, December 31, 1997 9:00 AM

Subject: ho ho holicay

 

 

>I am envious of you all, getting together in calif , sherri give marie a

>hug, james, give sherri  a hug.  etc. my self i usually don't hug but if

>i see david on his way back to salina i will give him a hug.  We have

>been warned to watch out for beat zen signs so, i will watch out, eager

>always to advance the warpage of an old religion. I am not sure that i

>see zen in catholicism but it is probaly every and nowhere. so also i

>will watch out in case jacks catholic whims start invading my

>conciousness.

>kick your heels

>patricia

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 13:26:36 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Philibin <deadbeat@BUFFNET.NET>

Subject:      Happy New year From Buffalo, NY

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        I don't know how far this list spans, or how many cultures it touches, but

Happy new year and seasons greetings to each and all.  It's been a wacky

year...  Full of laughs, tears, hope, some more tears, and I'd just like to

give everyone a great big sloppy kiss from a Drunkard.  I'll have a drink

at the fall of the ball and think about everyone who has passed.  Join me.

 

        -Bill

 

[  email: deadbeat@buffnet.net  |  web: http://www.buffnet.net/~deadbeat  ]

|"An unexamined life is not worth living."

|

|                                                          -- Socrates

[---  ICQ UIN = 188335  --|--  PrettyGoodPrivacy v2.6.2 Key By Request --]

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 19:32:19 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: BeatSuperNovaUpdated

In-Reply-To:  <75dd107b.34a9f27a@aol.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 02.21 31/12/97 EST, NICO 88 <NICO88@AOL.COM> wrote:

>hey, dont you guys think Jim Carroll's beat?

>i mean if you're gonna name Lou Reed and Patti Smith "beats", well then...

>

>oh, and why no Dennis Hopper??????

>

>-- Ginny.

>

ginny, grazie (thanks) for yr comments, i consider to expand

the list. why not Kim Gordon (Sonic Youth's singer)?,

again saluti by rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:07:30 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Some Dharma 1997

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>From South China Morning Post

 

_______

 

Wednesday  December 31  1997

 

                 Buddhists free fish to

                      appease poultry

 

                ANDREA LI

                Buddhists freed more than 600 kilograms of live

                fish yesterday in an effort to pacify the souls of the

                slaughtered chickens.

 

                The Reverend Sik Wing Sing said the worshippers

                released a fishing boat's catch worth an estimated

                $49,000 off Sai Kung.

 

                "There were lots of fish of all types and sizes. This

                is a standard ritual we perform every so often as we

                believe the freeing of life will help others," said

                Reverend Sik.

 

                The fish-releasing ceremony is performed by

                Buddhists twice a year. Yesterday's event involved

                more than 150 worshippers.

 

                "By releasing life back into the sea, it will be easier

                for animals and humans to come back into the

                world," Buddhist Leung Him-tai, 46, said. "In the

                wake of the chicken slaughter, it will also help the

                chickens die more comfortably and make their

                deaths less painful."

 

                Chui Shing-lei, 31, is a regular participant in the

                ceremonies. "I know I have done something good.

                It is, in essence, freeing and saving someone's life."

 

                Other ceremonies to pacify the souls of the dead

                birds will start this morning at Western Monastery

                in Lo Wai, Tsuen Wan, and continue for seven

                days.

 

                "Dozens of monks will chant poems to send the

                souls to peaceful lands," said Foon Wang, a monk

                at the monastery.

 

                The prayers will run from 9 am to 11.30 am, and

                from 1 pm to 4 pm.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 14:52:13 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Titanic and Nike

In-Reply-To:  <34AA4FF0.F5BD7247@primenet.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

If any Beat Listers happen to see the movie TITANIC check for a Nike Swoosh

on the Life Jackets. Did I really see that? Not possible to sit through it

twice.

 

j grant

 

                    HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

                             Details  on-line at

                                 http://www.bookzen.com

                      625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 13:22:14 -0800

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE

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I am sitting here at the open window bringing to me luscious ocean  flavored

breezes drenched in pale sunlight painting moving silver amorphous textures

in the clear sky, saying good bye to another year serenely moving us another

notch closer to the 21st century.  Marie is resting with a book in her room.

We are getting ready to join a couple of friends in the first night

festivities downtown Santa Cruz. Indoors and out, entertainment everywhere,

last year there were about 20,000 grown ups and kids greeting the new year

with alcohol free good vibes.

 

I would like to find some very clever one liner, but all I can think of is

wishes for a year full of Happiness Love and Peace for all of  us.

 

leon

 

 

leon

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:29:41 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Some Dharma 1997

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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that's funny because i heard on the news that they Buddhist monks were singing

chants for the  souls of the chickens.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:30:52 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Titanic and Nike

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

am going to see it soon. will let you know. tll me mmore about where to look.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:36:47 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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ummm.. that sounds so luscious. i'm so jealous! i'm stuck here in smoggy nyc.

well i'm no good at spontaneous one-liners either, so happy new year's to you

too.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:49:08 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Aeronwytru <Aeronwytru@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: BeatSuperNovaUpdated

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

maybe i missed him, but i don't remember seeing rimbaud on there. i think he

deserves to be on there as much as any of those people. and what about marcel

proust? saroyan?

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 22:47:58 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      L'Isola della Certosa.

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

friends,

 

i've the pleasure to present a beautiful web site

developed by Daniele Savio a friend of mine who

is an ecologist devoted to defend the nature against

the damage of the human negligence regard the resource

of our planet. his principal objective is to rescue

the Isola della Certosa near Venice (see the map

linked in the web pages). i hope his efforts 'll have

rewarded during this coming year to create a natural park

in this island at disposal for the people.

 

         --- * ---

 

L'ISOLA DELLA CERTOSA A VENEZIA.

For beyond 600 years the island was place of religious

installations, initially of the Agostiniani, afterward,

beginning from the 1424, of the Fathers chartreuses,

which, on sketch of Pietro Lombardo, they reconstructed

the church and they widened the complex conventual,

that finished for deal with (like he testifies the

press of Coronelli Vincenzo) the complete surface of the island.

 

Ample spaces had destined to meadows and planted with trees

avenues and, in distinctive, to the gardens, that, with the

donations of the believers, they contributed to the economic

calm of the religious, consenting those conditions of

essential isolation to the monastic life. Around to the 1820,

with the cancel of the religious Orders, the convent came

completely demolished to exception of the guesthouse,

reformatted to military barracks, and the island was military

custom. The numerous other constructions by now half-destroyed

and invaded from the present botany in the island belongs to

the recent history and results barren of historic or artistic

interest.

 

web path to a virtual garden in Venice:

 

http://www.gpnet.it/savio/certosa/intro.htm

http://www.gpnet.it/savio/certosa/spot1.htm

http://www.gpnet.it/savio/certosa/zoom.htm

http://www.gpnet.it/savio/certosa/cert_sto.htm

http://www.gpnet.it/savio/certosa/cert_ide.htm

http://www.gpnet.it/savio/certosa/schede/percintr.htm

http://www.gpnet.it/savio/certosa/schede/percomap.htm

 

thanks Daniele!

 

                --- * ---

 

 

saluti a tutti,

Rinaldo.

-------

31thDec97

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 17:20:02 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Kerouac Reissue on Verve Records!

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

We have a scan of the cover, a link to the product, and the latest news at

your fingertips! Go to:

 

   http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html

 

 

                          Happy New Years to all!

                                  Paul of The Kerouac Quarterly....

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 17:48:05 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Some Dharma 1997

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

I am not real sure i see the humor in the monks chanting for the souls of the

chickens. Explain, please?

                           GT

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 20:52:56 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         CIRCULATION <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

 

------------------------------ Rejected message ------------------------------

Received: by kenyon.edu (MX V4.2 VAX) id 16; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 13:44:14 EST

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 13:44:13 EST

From: CIRCULATION <breithau@kenyon.edu>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDY

Message-ID: <009BF97A.A491DA20.16@kenyon.edu>

Subject: Let Dreiser drive...

 

Excuse me if I mentioned this book before, can't remember if I have but I'd

like to mention the recent re-issue of A HOOSIER HOLIDAY by Theodore Dreiser.

This reprint is nicely done by Indiana University Press and has the original

illustrations of Franklin Booth, who was one of the main artists for the

magazine, the MASSES.

 

Published originally in 1915, this is one of the first 'road books' ever

produced in America. In this piece, Dreiser decides to take a trip from New

York State back to his home in Indiana with artist Franklin Booth, who is also

a character in this book. They hire a youngkid to drive, who is given the

nikname of "Speed." The book has many close associations with On The Road.

This paricular edition btw, has a forward by Douglas Brinkley. If you have

never cared much for Dreisers writing, let me say that this is the man at his

best, the writing is excellent.

 

Ever since reading Keroauc's On The Road, I have been interested in travel

books that cross this country via auto. They make nice background reading for

OTR. Also of interest might be FREE AIR, by Sinclair Lewis. This came out in

1917 and is more of a novel than Dreiser's memoir-like Holiday. FREE AIR is

interesting, wort the read if you can find it, it is still another among the

earliest of On The Road books. But by all means, check out A Hoosier Holiday,

five stars.

 

Cheers in 1998 and to anotheryear of good books!

 

Dave B.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 19:44:25 EST

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=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 18:05:34 +0000

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Let the Good Times Roll

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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    Happy New Year to all of you.

 

I'll lift a glass and pass the pipe for the List.  Let it rip!

 

James

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 21:46:29 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      Leon

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Leon wrote:

 

 

> I would like to find some very clever one liner, but all I can think of is

> wishes for a year full of Happiness Love and Peace for all of  us.

>

> leon

>

Leon:

 

What could be more clever.  Thanks and the same to ya!

 

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 22:01:02 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Glenn Cooper <coopergw@MPX.COM.AU>

Subject:      Help!

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I seem to have been unsubbed from this list. Haven't received a post in

three days. Could somebody please tell me (via private email) how I can

resubscribe?

 

Thanks.

 

Glenn C.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 22:12:55 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      Re: Help!

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Glenn:

 

Here is what I know.

 

 

> To subscribe, send an email to

> listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu with a blank subject line. In the body of your mail,

 type "subscribe

> Beat-L ." There's been some interesting talk there lately.

>

 

 

Glenn Cooper wrote:

 

> I seem to have been unsubbed from this list. Haven't received a post in

> three days. Could somebody please tell me (via private email) how I can

> resubscribe?

>

> Thanks.

>

> Glenn C.

 

 

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 22:15:33 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      Sorry

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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Sorry

 

I knew it.

James warned me.

But anyway,

I still blew it.

Back channel, back channel, back channel

Is my manta.

Bandwidth wasted,

Sour tasted,

Sorry.

:-)

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 22:12:16 -0500

Reply-To:     cosmicat@holeintheweb.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         cosmicat@HOLEINTHEWEB.COM

Subject:      Re: Help!

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Glenn Cooper wrote:

>

> I seem to have been unsubbed from this list. Haven't received a post in

> three days. Could somebody please tell me (via private email) how I can

> resubscribe?

>

> Thanks.

>

> Glenn C.

 

 

i think you send the e-mail to listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu and put

subscribe beat-l in the body text. if not...ask bill gargan. you might

add your name and e-mail address as well.

later,

michael

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 21:29:47 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jim Rhaesa <racy@PRIMENET.COM>

Subject:      Re: Leon

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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so i was thinking....since new year's eve seems to be a valid excuse to party

all night

(i was looking up at the Arizona stars) and i says well if we all decided to

astral project

simultaneously to a star 100,000 light years from here we could reasonably have

100,000 days in a row of new year's eve parties.  see you in the stars everyone

have a happy new year

 

david rhaesa

somewhere between Arizona and beta antares

 

R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

 

> Leon wrote:

>

> > I would like to find some very clever one liner, but all I can think of is

> > wishes for a year full of Happiness Love and Peace for all of  us.

> >

> > leon

> >

> Leon:

>

> What could be more clever.  Thanks and the same to ya!

>

> --

>

> Peace,

>

> Bentz

> bocelts@scsn.net

> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

 



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