=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:14:51 -0500

Reply-To:     blackj@bigmagic.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Al Aronowitz <blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>

Subject:      GRAUERHOLZ

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Anybody got his email address? -Al Aronowitz

--

***************************************

Al Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST

http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:30:02 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Keratechnology

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Attila Gyenis wrote:

>

> >>Timothy Franklin Thomas writes:

> Subject: Re: Beat Generation multi-media???

>

> It's impossible to guess how Jack et al may have made use of this new

> technology. Don't be to sure of your position. With the sheer volume of

> letters available I believe they would have made good use of email.<<

>

> I'm not so sure. There is a reason why Jack used paper, and not the phone to

> communicate. I think it's for documentation . E mail is erased after being

> read. Phone call is forgotten. Letters are here almost forever.

>

> I do think he would have liked writing on a computer without having to stop

> to change sheets of paper, though he would have bitched about the lack of

> noise and rhythm.

>

> so it goes,  Attila

 

other than the notion of "noise" i don't understand this at all.

e-mails can be saved easily and many listserves are archived for

posterity.  as for rhythm it seems that one finds a beat at a keyboard

as easily as at an underwood.  bipbangbloopblat my fingers strike keys

as i listen to Jack on the CD player (definitely not noise).

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

 

therefore in conclusion ladies and gentlemen i decidate this poem

...........

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:37:47 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

Subject:      canuck mail strike

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beat-Lers

i just though that everyone should know that the canadian mai strike is

over and the mail should start moving soon. HORAY!

if any of you had made arrangements with me to pick up some of my prints,

etc - your mail should be moving and let me know if you have any questions

of concerns.

yrs

derek beaulieu

 

******************************************************************

Derek Beaulieu

House Press (limited ed. chapbooks, prints, etc)

#502-728 3rd Ave NW

Calgary, Alberta, Canada, T2N 0J1

ph. (403)270-4440, fax. 270-9357

"remove literary, grammatical & syntactical inhibition" -Jack Kerouac

******************************************************************

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:46:02 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Ryan White <whitery@UCS.ORST.EDU>

Subject:      Re: beat influence

In-Reply-To:  <3487BAB5.7C58@egenet.com.tr>

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>

>  As far as i know punk/rap/rock band RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE got some

> influence from the beats: The Solist reads Allen Ginsberg poem America

> before each concert and in lyrics of song "Take The Power Back" it says

> ">its the beats and lyrics they fear." But i am not very sure if they

> are telling the same beats.

 

I've listened to quite bit of Rage, and I don't believe the "beats"

they're talking about are anything more than musical.  I could be wrong,

these guys are pretty well read and very political.  They did do a

rendition of Ginsberg's "Hadda Been Playing On The Jukebox."

 

Buh-Bye!

 

Ryan

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:51:42 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Ryan White <whitery@UCS.ORST.EDU>

Subject:      Re: the last time....

In-Reply-To:  <971204101455_-1875617360@mrin51.mail.aol.com>

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On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, First_Name Last_Name wrote:

 

> In a message dated 97-12-04 09:32:18 EST, you write:

>

> << I had

>  ever rewound after 17 minutes >>

>

I have to admit, I enjoyed the film.   I actually think that the camera

work helped enforce the image of Neal as a nonstop mover talker and

thinker, and all this set to the jazzy bebop beats.  Sorry, I thought it

was great!

 

Buh-Bye!

 

Ryan

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:53:42 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      Chelsea Hotel

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Is that the same hotel that Dylan once lived in?  If so, does it change

the meaning (to me) of this line from Sara?

 

Stayin' up for days in the Chelsea Hotel,

Writin' "Sad-Eyed Lady of the Lowlands" for you.

 

Nah, not really, but it would be interesting to know what sort of

literary types have lived at the Chelsea.  Didn't Joni Mitchell do a

song about it too?

 

Al, can you enlighten us on the Chelsea and its occupants?

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:51:20 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Chelsea Hotel

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R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

>

> Is that the same hotel that Dylan once lived in?  If so, does it change

> the meaning (to me) of this line from Sara?

>

> Stayin' up for days in the Chelsea Hotel,

> Writin' "Sad-Eyed Lady of the Lowlands" for you.

>

> Nah, not really, but it would be interesting to know what sort of

> literary types have lived at the Chelsea.  Didn't Joni Mitchell do a

> song about it too?

>

> Al, can you enlighten us on the Chelsea and its occupants?

>

> --

>

> Peace,

>

> Bentz

> bocelts@scsn.net

> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

 

don't forget leonard cohen

 

i remember you well at the chelsea hotel....giving me head on the unmade

bed.....

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:03:10 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

Subject:      Re: Chelsea Hotel

In-Reply-To:  <34873476.73E941E2@scsn.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

leonard cohen also mentions the chelsea in his tribute to janis joplin

(damn what was the name of that song...?) anyways the lines goes:

"i remeber you well in th chelsea hotel...

that is all i

do think you of you that often..."

and as far as i remember the chelsea was also home to herbert huncke for a

while, and countless other artists, etc (motherwell? rauchenberg? uh...)

yrs

derek

 

******************************************************************

Derek Beaulieu

House Press (limited ed. chapbooks, prints, etc)

#502-728 3rd Ave NW

Calgary, Alberta, Canada, T2N 0J1

ph. (403)270-4440, fax. 270-9357

"remove literary, grammatical & syntactical inhibition" -Jack Kerouac

******************************************************************

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:26:45 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sean Young <syoung@DSW.COM>

Subject:      Re: Chelsea Hotel

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     Harry Smith lived and died there as well.

 

 

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________

Subject: Re: Chelsea Hotel

Author:  "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at Internet

Date:    12/4/97 4:03 PM

 

 

leonard cohen also mentions the chelsea in his tribute to janis joplin

(damn what was the name of that song...?) anyways the lines goes:

"i remeber you well in th chelsea hotel...

that is all i

do think you of you that often..."

and as far as i remember the chelsea was also home to herbert huncke for a

while, and countless other artists, etc (motherwell? rauchenberg? uh...)

yrs

derek

 

******************************************************************

Derek Beaulieu

House Press (limited ed. chapbooks, prints, etc)

#502-728 3rd Ave NW

Calgary, Alberta, Canada, T2N 0J1

ph. (403)270-4440, fax. 270-9357

"remove literary, grammatical & syntactical inhibition" -Jack Kerouac

******************************************************************

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:31:05 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sara Brosnan <coffee@MAIL.WDN.COM>

Subject:      Re: beat influence

MIME-Version: 1.0

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>  As far as i know punk/rap/rock band RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE got some

>

> influence from the beats: The Solist reads Allen Ginsberg poem America

>

> before each concert and in lyrics of song "Take The Power Back" it

> says

> ">its the beats and lyrics they fear." But i am not very sure if they

> are telling the same beats...

>

> (From the album Rage Against the Machine.)

>

 

I've been hearing a lot about RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE from various

sources.  And I like the lyrics to "Take the Power Back".  Does anyone

have any sugessitions of what album would be best to buy?

 

Sara

 

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:31:36 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Eric Lytle <e.lytle@CED.UTAH.EDU>

Subject:      Re: beat influence

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Sara Brosnan wrote:

 

> I've been hearing a lot about RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE from various

> sources.  And I like the lyrics to "Take the Power Back".  Does anyone

>

> have any sugessitions of what album would be best to buy?

>

> Sara

 

    They only have two albums released in the US.  IMHO,  the first

album,  self-titled,  is far better.  It has a b&w picture of a monk in

flames.  Very moving cover,  music even more moving.  Gets all the angst

out.

 

-E

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:29:52 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Dylan Thomas

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Hey- as for poetry other than American- you have Thomas, Rilke, and Yeats-

anything else is a shallow imitation- wonder if I will get any flack on this?

GT

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:01:02 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: Keratechnology

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BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU,.Internet writes:

>I'm not so sure. There is a reason why Jack used paper, and not the

>phone to

>communicate. I think it's for documentation . E mail is erased after

>being

>read. Phone call is forgotten. Letters are here almost forever.

 

keep in mind also the comparative cost of phone vs. mail... i think

it's obvious that the beats wouldn't have had an aversion to new

technology, jack, and especially allen, were on tv frequently and both

made numerous recordings, jack extremely interested in using recording

devices to tape himself, etc... the fact that he mixed media with jazz

and lit., an aversion to new technology as inferior to classic form is

a symptom of vain intellectualism... they were too genius to succumb to

that trap or exclude any possibility of expanding their art based

solely on technological vanity.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:31:03 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         CIRCULATION <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beat Bars/Taverns

 

If you lined up end-to-end all the beers Kerouac, Wolfe and Thomas ever drank,

how far would they go?

 

Dave B.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:36:53 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         CIRCULATION <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject:      Life imatates diaries

 

I heard on the news tonight about the kid who went beserk in Kentucky with a

rifle and killed three of his classmates, & was supposedly influenced by a scene

in the movie they made from Jim Carroll's BASKETBALL DIARIES. The scene depicts

a kids fantasy of doing the same. killing all his classmates with a rifle.

 

Has anyone heard any comments from Jim Carroll about this? Damn, at least the

kids didn't start using drugs instead!

 

Dave B.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:27:46 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Irving Leif <ileif@IX.NETCOM.COM>

Subject:      St. Mark's Reading

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Nancy,

 

You are so right.  I had a great time myself.  It was truly a landmark

event.  Most importantly, there was a whole new generation of Kerouac

readers.  Amram was great, but so was Ann Waldman.

 

Irving

 

At 09:50 AM 12/4/97 -0500, you wrote:

>I went to the Some of the Dharma Reading last night at St.Mark's Church

>and it was awesome. I went by myself and wound up meeting this really cool

>art teacher from Mass. and the performances were so cool. David Amram was

>great at everything...he played the piano, flute, drums, whatever, and he

>sang. It was my first time at the Poetry Project and it was just great!  I

>hope those of you who were there, enjoyed it!

>~Nancy

>

>The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

>Sure-JK

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:50:56 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: SOTD

In-Reply-To:  <BEAT-L%1997120415374286@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

It was a reading of Some of The Dharma...what were you expecting, not to

be rude or anything? Everything that was read came from the book.

~Nancy

 

On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Bill Gargan wrote:

 

> I decided at the last minute that I'd go down to St. Marks for the

> reading.  It wasn't what I expected.  I guess I thought it would be more

> like the celebration of OTR, where people were essentially reading

> passages from the work.  The evening opened with introductory remarks by

> editor David Stanford, who provided both historical background and

> comments on editorial problems associated with publishing the SOD

> manuscript.   Ann Douglas provided additional background reading and

> commented on Kerouac's buddhist beliefs, and read letters K had sent to

> Allen Ginsberg at the time he was working on SOD.  The rest of the

> program was really a musical tribute with pieces by David Amram, Ed

> Sanders, Hitchhiker, Lee Renaldo and others.  Anne Waldman also

> performed a couple of pieces.    The program began about 8:30 and ended around

> 10:30.  There was nearly a full house.

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:12:47 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>

Subject:      Re: Chelsea Hotel

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.A32.3.93.971204160052.78138A-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca> from "Derek A. Beaulieu" at Dec 4,

              97 04:03:10 pm

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> leonard cohen also mentions the chelsea in his tribute to janis joplin

> (damn what was the name of that song...?) anyways the lines goes:

> "i remeber you well in th chelsea hotel...

> that is all i

> do think you of you that often..."

> and as far as i remember the chelsea was also home to herbert huncke for a

> while, and countless other artists, etc (motherwell? rauchenberg? uh...)

 

My wife and I had our honeymoon there (not much money at the time,

so we couldn't do Paris).  Pretty romantic place, funky atmosphere,

lobby full of paintings by local artists.  Back then only about $100

a night, not bad.  I definitely recommend it whenever friends ask

me where they should stay.  On 23rd and 7th.

 

-------------------------------------------------------

| Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com                    |

|                                                     |

|     Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |

|      (the beat literature web site)                 |

|                                                     |

|          "Coffeehouse: Writings from the Web"       |

|            (a real book, like on paper)             |

|               also at http://coffeehousebook.com    |

|                                                     |

|                   *---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---* |

|                                                     |

|        "When I was crazy, I thought you were great" |

|                                       -- Ric Ocasek |

-------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:19:26 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Donald G. Jr. Lee" <donlee@COMP.UARK.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Beat Bars/Taverns

Comments: To: CIRCULATION <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

In-Reply-To:  <009BE47C.01479DE0.68@kenyon.edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

AROUND THE MOON TWICE?

 

"To live outside the law you must be honest."

                                        --Bob Dylan

 

On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, CIRCULATION wrote:

 

> If you lined up end-to-end all the beers Kerouac, Wolfe and Thomas ever drank,

> how far would they go?

>

> Dave B.

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:29:55 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         DCardKJHS <DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: the last time....

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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In a message dated 97-12-04 11:10:42 EST, Kindlesan wrote:

 

<<  i don't believe we can necessarily label

 interpretations of one or two people from that time period unless we

 ourselves spent significant time with them.......

  >>

Most folks on the list HAVE spent significant time with them...that film is

one of the worst pieces of trash ever foisted on the public.

Best regards, Dennis

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:19:24 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "PoOka(the friendly ghost)" <jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>

Subject:      pop music and the beats.

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

has anyone mentioned the 10,000 Maniacs song, "Hey Jack Kerouac" ? This

is an obvious beat influenced song by Natale Merchant. I have seen a few

postings about rage against the machine. Can't say i like them personally

because after meeting with the lead singer and actually talking about

current issues of the time, i found him to be a sheer hypocrite. Back in

1993 during the Lollapalooza tour, rage was playing. At the spoken word

tent he was answering questions by the fans that decided to visit him in

the tent. When the singer, Zak, was asked if he would support free speech

he said, "of course." When asked if he would support Howard STern and his

fight against the FCC, zak changed his tune and said, "No way man.

Howard is a racist." If memory serves correct, Zak was the same "racist"

who insisted of only having native americans at some of his shows in the

mid west. Funny how some people try to play both sides of the fence.

 

                                                jason

 

ps. if anyone is looking for some music that isn't drenched in politics

like Rage, i suggest Jawbox. Very poetic and they even wrote a song based

on a william carlose williams poem.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:37:22 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Dylan Thomas

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 04:10 PM 12/4/97 -0600, Amy Vokac wrote:

 

>In high school my theatre department did Under Milkwood.

>His languageis beautiful in it.

 

Bob Dylan a.k.a. Robert Milkwood Thomas

 

on:

 

Steve Goodman: Somebody Else's Troubles - 1973

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:39:53 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Chelsea Hotel

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 05:53 PM 12/4/97 -0500, Bentz wrote:

>Is that the same hotel that Dylan once lived in?  If so, does it change

>the meaning (to me) of this line from Sara?

>

>Stayin' up for days in the Chelsea Hotel,

>Writin' "Sad-Eyed Lady of the Lowlands" for you.

>

>Nah, not really, but it would be interesting to know what sort of

>literary types have lived at the Chelsea.  Didn't Joni Mitchell do a

>song about it too?

 

Leonard Cohen got head from Janis Joplin there.  As

imortalized in the song.

 

Mike

 

PS. As well as the Sid & Nancy connection.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:41:24 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Beat Bars/Taverns

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 08:31 PM 12/4/97 EST, Dave B. wrote:

>If you lined up end-to-end all the beers Kerouac, Wolfe and Thomas ever drank,

>how far would they go?

 

My liver. . .

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:44:41 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: the last time....

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At 12:45 PM 12/4/97 +1000, you wrote:

>G'day all,

>

>has anyone else had the sad misfortune of seeing a film called "The last

>time i committed suicide" , which i sat through last night hissing through

>clamped teeth? I've often wondered when or whether the right kind of movie

>treatment of some beat writers will eventuate - this was a really

>mindfuckingly stupid attempt, dealing as it did with a visual rendition of

>one of neal cassady's letters to jack - little bits of dialogue here and

>there offered promises almost immediately dashed against some

>hollywood/madison avenue figment of 'the beat'

>

>

>i dont want to say more at this stage other that the only authentic feel

>for the time is the music (a la miles davis, or maybe himself - i couldnt

>be bothered scanning the credits)

>

>i heard/read somewhere that FFCoppola has the rights to 'on the road' -

>anyone know more?

>--

>bye for now,

>#<|||||||||||||||||||||||># John Pullicino #<|||||||||||||||||||||||>#

>(|||||||||||||||||||)  #jjpull@pac.com.au# (|||||||||||||||||||)

>#<|||||||||||||># *Team AMIGA WorldWide* #<|||||||||||||||>#

>

>

John, we've had both of these threads earlier.  Coppola is working on

OTR.  A lot of people here liked the Last Time I etc.  I agree with

you.

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:58:44 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Beat Bars/Taverns

In-Reply-To:  <009BE47C.01479DE0.68@kenyon.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

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>If you lined up end-to-end all the beers Kerouac, Wolfe and Thomas ever drank,

>how far would they go?

>

>Dave B.

 

All the way to the Beat List.

 

 

                    HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

                             Details  on-line at

                                 http://www.bookzen.com

                      625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:47:20 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sad enigma <Sadenigma@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Chelsea Hotel

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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valori salanis(sp?)  who wrote the scum manifesto was there for awhile.  so

was sid vicious and nancy spungeon, who died there.   my 1 1/2 cents    have a

nice night and a happy halloween

 

 

      chad

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:28:30 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Cakebread, Dylan and Bern....

Mime-Version: 1.0

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Hi Mike,

 

        Can you fill in a few more details for us? Does Goodman use that

name as a veiled reference to Mr. Zimmerman?   ...in the song you mentioned?

 

        Speaking of Dylan, did you catch an article in the Globe and Mail

back at the end of October titled Tangled up in Bob? It covered other

singers with strong dylanesque leanings including one Dan Bern. He is quite

amazing...not quite sure how much is send-up vs. being totally immersed and

in love with the sound. Very good album with two decidedly beat songs:

"Rome" with a real on the road road song feel.....

 

        We pulled into Rome with blood in our eyes

        After days of travellin', months of lies.

        Takin' our various turns at the wheel

        Taking booze and pot and cigarettes, anything not to feel.

 

and "wasteland"...

 

        I saw the best minds of my generation playing pinball

        Maked up and caked up and lookin' like some kind of china doll

        With all of Adolf Hitler's moves down cold

        As they stood up in front of a rock n' roll band

        And always movin' upward and ever upward to this gentle golden

promised land.

 

        I haven't tired of him yet. The article is worth reading also if you

haven't seen it.

 

                Antoine

 

      ********************

 

>At 04:10 PM 12/4/97 -0600, Amy Vokac wrote:

>

>>In high school my theatre department did Under Milkwood.

>>His languageis beautiful in it.

>

>Bob Dylan a.k.a. Robert Milkwood Thomas

>

>on:

>

>Steve Goodman: Somebody Else's Troubles - 1973

>

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never

cease to be amused."

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:03:34 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: the last time....

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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In a message dated 97-12-05 00:06:37 EST, you write:

 

<< Most folks on the list HAVE spent significant time with them. >>

 

 

well in that case i suppose i can just keep my mouth shut  ;o)

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:03:58 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Cakebread, Dylan and Bern....

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 01:28 AM 12/5/97 -0500, Antoine wrote:

 

>Can you fill in a few more details for us? Does

>Goodman use that name as a veiled reference

>to Mr. Zimmerman?   ...in the song you mentioned?

 

Hey Antoine et al,

 

"Robert Milkwood Thomas" is a pseudonym that Dylan used

on the Goodman album mentioned in the original post.

He plays piano and sings harmony on two songs:

 

"Election Year Rag"

"Somebody Else's Troubles"

 

>Speaking of Dylan, did you catch an article in the Globe and Mail

>back at the end of October titled Tangled up in Bob?

 

No I didn't, but my roomates have a whole pile of old

Globe's kicking around and I'll root through em.  If it's

not there I'll hit the library.

 

Thanx,

Mike (PS. How's things in Montreal?  Keeping the Maudit(sp.)

cold?)

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:07:10 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      music

MIME-Version: 1.0

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I am not a musical person but.

When i was house sitting for william (wsb) when he was in new york for

his 70 birthday, i got a phone call and . oh around 7, asking for

william's number in NY, i politely said, im sorry but i can't give out

where he is ( he was at the bunker getting ready to go to the party) ,

the man said he would like the address of the bunker or address of the

place of the party, again i demurred. we were at a stalemate, then i

offered to take his number and give it to william, the guy said yes,

yes, i'm frank zappa, well i did a double take, then said,(looking

hurriedly in williams rollodex, under frank, there he was. then quickly

gavin mr zappa the particulars.  I heard he sent literally dozens of

long stem red roses to the bar where the party was at.  It was quite a

party.  william brought me back the neatest poster, it was a shadowy

siluette of him. signed by the artist and by william. I know that this

might not be "not boring" but i so seldom have a musical story. I

remember that when bob dylan played in kansas city, william went and

visited with him back stage. James g has group and i hear it is very

good,  i haven't made it out to hear him. as i have "married with

children" syndrome.

patricia

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:09:47 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      music ps

MIME-Version: 1.0

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i also remember that william was flattered that david bowie had painted

a protrait of him, I remember hearing it was very striking.

patricia

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:00:27 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Ksenija Simic <xenias@EUNET.YU>

Subject:      Re: Dylan Thomas

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Donald G. Jr. Lee wrote:

>

> I know virtually zilch about Dylan Thomas--can anyone suggest a good book

> and/or website?  Plus, which of his poetry collections is best?  Plus

> anything anybody else has to add...

>

> thanks

>

> Don Lee

> Fayetteville, Ark.

>

> "Might as well be frank, monsieur.  It would take a miracle to get you

> out of Casablanca and the Germans have outlawed miracles."

 

his stories, by all means. instead of reading new books, i read them

three times; they are completely psychodelic; and they just can't seem

to leave me.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:34:31 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: music ps

 

Frank Zappa - now there's one hell of a guy.  if you haven't heard it, his

last cd "The Yellow Shark" is amazing.  it's more of a "serious" music

style, performed by an avante-garde chamber ensemble -  reminiscent of Cage,

Glass, Schoenberg, yet all very Zappa, as only Zappa can be.  but it's full

of outrageous, beautiful, caustic, funny, dark, enlightened sound, words and

ideas.  check it out if you get a chance.  Frank began to be quite ill while

the "ensemble" was being toured around the world and i'm not sure if the cd

was released before his death or not.

 

ciao, sherri

-----Original Message-----

From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Thursday, December 04, 1997 11:11 PM

Subject: music ps

 

 

>i also remember that william was flattered that david bowie had painted

>a protrait of him, I remember hearing it was very striking.

>patricia

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:39:40 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      this is long and i know this isn't Beat, but

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it's wonderful. and the notion about life and destiny seems right in =

line with our Beat folks.

=20

>From Milan Kundera's "The Book of Laughter and Forgetting":

=20

"At the same time, he made a name for himself as a scientist, and that =

protected him.  The state needed him, so he could allow himself to be =

caustic about it at a time when hardly anyone was daring to.  Little by =

little, as those who were in pursuit of their own act gained influence, =

he appeared on television more and more, becoming well known.  After the =

Russians arrived, he refused to renounce his convictions, was removed =

from his job and hounded by the secret police.  That didn't break him.  =

He was in love with his destiny, and even his march toward ruin seemed =

noble and beauitful to him.

=20

Please understand me:  I said he was in love with his destiny, not with =

himself.  These are two entirely different things.  It is as if life had =

freed itself and suddenly had interests of its own, which did not =

correspond at all to Mirek's.  This is how, I believe, life turns itself =

into destiny.  Destiny has no intention of lifting a finger for Mirek =

(for his happiness, his security, his good spirits, his health), whereas =

Mirek is ready to do everything for his destiny (for its grandeur, its =

clarity, its beauty, its style, its intelligible meaning).  He felt =

responsible for his destiny, but his destiny did not feel responsible =

for him.

=20

His connection to his life was that of a sculptor to his statue or a =

novelist to a novel...."

 

ciao, sherri

 

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<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =

http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =

HTML//EN"><BASE=20

href=3D"file://C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft =

Shared\Stationery\">

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bgColor=3D#ffffff>

<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript size=3D5>it's wonderful. =

and the notion=20

about life and destiny seems right in line with our Beat =

folks.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript =

size=3D5></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript size=3D5>From Milan =

Kundera's &quot;The=20

Book of Laughter and Forgetting&quot;:</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DLoosieScript></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DLoosieScript>&quot;At the same time, he made a name =

for himself=20

as a scientist, and that protected him.&nbsp; The state needed him, so =

he could=20

allow himself to be caustic about it at a time when hardly anyone was =

daring=20

to.&nbsp; Little by little, as those who were in pursuit of their own =

act gained=20

influence, he appeared on television more and more, becoming well =

known.&nbsp;=20

After the Russians arrived, he refused to renounce his convictions, was =

removed=20

from his job and hounded by the secret police.&nbsp; That didn't break=20

him.&nbsp; He was in love with his destiny, and even his march toward =

ruin=20

seemed noble and beauitful to him.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DLoosieScript></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DLoosieScript>Please understand me:&nbsp; I said he was =

in love=20

with his destiny, not with himself.&nbsp; These are two entirely =

different=20

things.&nbsp; It is as if life had freed itself and suddenly had =

interests of=20

its own, which did not correspond at all to Mirek's.&nbsp; This is how, =

I=20

believe, life turns itself into destiny.&nbsp; Destiny has no intention =

of=20

lifting a finger for Mirek (for his happiness, his security, his good =

spirits,=20

his health), whereas Mirek is ready to do everything for his destiny =

(for its=20

grandeur, its clarity, its beauty, its style, its intelligible =

meaning).&nbsp;=20

He felt responsible for his destiny, but his destiny did not feel =

responsible=20

for him.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DLoosieScript></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DLoosieScript>His connection to his life was that of a =

sculptor=20

to his statue or a novelist to a novel....&quot;</FONT></DIV>

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript size=3D5>ciao,=20

sherri</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

 

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=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:03:34 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Gender of Nature...

MIME-Version: 1.0

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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

 

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Haven't been able to read the list much over the last several weeks and =

have a bunch of unread stuff on my computer at work, because i kept =

forgetting to put this list on digest.  at any rate, that's the reason =

for this late post on this thread.  and i apologize if i'm repeating =

something already said.

 

i don't believe that any culture has ever ascribed the moon with =

masculine attributes nor the sun with feminine.  it appears that the =

moon has been tied to the feminine reproductive cycle since ancient =

times and certainly in Native American culture the moon is known as =

Grandmother Moon, Earth as Mother Earth, sky as Father Sky (which i =

think may be synonymous with the sun, not certain though).

 

mi taku oyasin, sherri

 

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<HTML>

<HEAD>

 

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =

http-equiv=3DContent-Type><BASE=20

href=3D"file://C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft =

Shared\Stationery\">

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bgColor=3D#ffffff>

<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript size=3D5>Haven't been =

able to read the=20

list much over the last several weeks and have a bunch of unread stuff =

on my=20

computer at work, because i kept forgetting to put this list on =

digest.&nbsp; at=20

any rate, that's the reason for this late post on this thread.&nbsp; and =

i=20

apologize if i'm repeating something already said.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript =

size=3D5></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript size=3D5>i don't believe =

that any=20

culture has ever ascribed the moon with masculine attributes nor the sun =

with=20

feminine.&nbsp; it appears that the moon has been tied to the feminine=20

reproductive cycle since ancient times and certainly in Native American =

culture=20

the moon is known as Grandmother Moon, Earth as Mother Earth, sky as =

Father Sky=20

(which i think may be synonymous with the sun, not certain =

though).</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript =

size=3D5></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript size=3D5>mi taku oyasin,=20

sherri</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

 

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0D/5eq+lJB6Idpcl/8Eb/ekdQzuVGEBTjsmgcTWbbfobp9OgVqsuURS15PoL+decd9KgLqsLCvVQ

79eSU5RTkUEiwQi2QKkcrsMCPBh2KqatOEU5SJtmlcGi5jgAcguUFCA0zZd58zlRpzq2/LA/P8pp

bssNFzq4H3lHC4SVaZdiSKiRGJYJj8EjEQpVpEq5JBsVb1OdNemirYE5n4cz+0hHDzK6pCuPPXaP

v4Zr3PUBclFiCpghTfVukyEJs+uRqlgNzrduj/knJRdBtHcmnnI+HDC8EflcvMVn6kh/jpN/QmeZ

4hRfyiG9EIkPrzSSRvYvvacgNForg/MRG/hg0NYB4BuQf6Nh2NNjvf/WBRbZVK92YFjarJpZqfEb

jc8yVxxlv5nxokJ6YyW6k2V3ZnEbwOKIQgjIs3emjfWVs/ZrUJHBZuEAwbQrMMXZrObICUWSJF0m

NvKWpKphZIrgweJIKWM3OH4JbYYSUziEUl4xqi4cjhdZK7oUacYhhvPxqHA4iNzBGjssjVyki/lR

xDzmkBSkZp1KIEkcjZekPrtlc9kBp38FcY/YKFWSBTbRWr6gfVUsjIewKUiyTMqCE+yWL38Cf8IA

Pg8rLWeMxpn7eFFCdWVKRX51ozB6re6YEa9zx7SIh8zGuy5oCKn7N7krJ48yiCJryDGIhtBlmYkS

ydn3jiSMui4KwpPrS8mWGDU2laqSsIfzV8G8wGp8ERKEVMiibIm661BIqAkl1i8AiBh5C3AMdIRG

khOxfIkIgQZeoraURC4ThnWAKMYmkHkLiVmyG8xUGLM3MoLWKjCMxL5gorrhcya5WG/STIS6m5AR

+HjBZn/eJJPZ6p03eILRHM4xyGrIy2TV4wb8opKeks8tdhXwbIfuh2s0KnH9ljMjxL8FfXTwMbP9

LHgvqwWXZzt4K17dcZSNoCMjkn2R9zcLbYZ5yyyJyFZl/DKbfIBkkA8mPRNzF04qvdFlaFtqV8x3

MnyNkjcm/DOPFwfiMn8sXYUJAAA7

 

------=_NextPart_000_007E_01BD0111.3A866540--

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:46:57 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: pop music and the beats.

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.OSF.3.91.971205001339.4060B-100000@turbo.kean.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Hey Jack Kerouac

I think of your mother and the tears she cried for none other

than her little boy lost in our little world that hated and thay dared to

drag him down...

Allen BabY why so jaded have you boys all gone away and their music

faded...

 

These are some of the lyrics that I can remember but im not sure how

accurate it is...you can find the lyrics at the Int'l Lyrics Server on the

web...

 

 

 

On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, PoOka(the friendly ghost) wrote:

 

> has anyone mentioned the 10,000 Maniacs song, "Hey Jack Kerouac" ? This

> is an obvious beat influenced song by Natale Merchant. I have seen a few

> postings about rage against the machine. Can't say i like them personally

> because after meeting with the lead singer and actually talking about

> current issues of the time, i found him to be a sheer hypocrite. Back in

> 1993 during the Lollapalooza tour, rage was playing. At the spoken word

> tent he was answering questions by the fans that decided to visit him in

> the tent. When the singer, Zak, was asked if he would support free speech

> he said, "of course." When asked if he would support Howard STern and his

> fight against the FCC, zak changed his tune and said, "No way man.

> Howard is a racist." If memory serves correct, Zak was the same "racist"

> who insisted of only having native americans at some of his shows in the

> mid west. Funny how some people try to play both sides of the fence.

>

>                                                 jason

>

> ps. if anyone is looking for some music that isn't drenched in politics

> like Rage, i suggest Jawbox. Very poetic and they even wrote a song based

> on a william carlose williams poem.

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:47:37 -0500

Reply-To:     Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@is8.nyu.edu>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Dylan Thomas

In-Reply-To:  <199712050537.AAA20336@ionline.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

I thought Bob Dylan's real name was Robert Zimmerman...

 

On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, M. Cakebread wrote:

 

> At 04:10 PM 12/4/97 -0600, Amy Vokac wrote:

>

> >In high school my theatre department did Under Milkwood.

> >His languageis beautiful in it.

>

> Bob Dylan a.k.a. Robert Milkwood Thomas

>

> on:

>

> Steve Goodman: Somebody Else's Troubles - 1973

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:48:37 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Chelsea Hotel

In-Reply-To:  <9a3afe83.3487956a@aol.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Valerie Salonas...check out I Shot Andy Warhol...

 

On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Sad enigma wrote:

 

> valori salanis(sp?)  who wrote the scum manifesto was there for awhile.  so

> was sid vicious and nancy spungeon, who died there.   my 1 1/2 cents    have a

> nice night and a happy halloween

>

>

>       chad

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:58:33 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: music

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

patricia: you have yet to be boring, and i absolutly cracked up reading

your story, please keep them coming, you make wsb (your william) come

alive in a way that is unique and wondrous.

mc

 

Patricia Elliott wrote:

 

> I am not a musical person but.

> When i was house sitting for william (wsb) when he was in new york for

> his 70 birthday, i got a phone call and . oh around 7, asking for

> william's number in NY, i politely said, im sorry but i can't give out

> where he is ( he was at the bunker getting ready to go to the party) ,

> the man said he would like the address of the bunker or address of the

> place of the party, again i demurred. we were at a stalemate, then i

> offered to take his number and give it to william, the guy said yes,

> yes, i'm frank zappa, well i did a double take, then said,(looking

> hurriedly in williams rollodex, under frank, there he was. then quickly

> gavin mr zappa the particulars.  I heard he sent literally dozens of

> long stem red roses to the bar where the party was at.  It was quite a

> party.  william brought me back the neatest poster, it was a shadowy

> siluette of him. signed by the artist and by william. I know that this

> might not be "not boring" but i so seldom have a musical story. I

> remember that when bob dylan played in kansas city, william went and

> visited with him back stage. James g has group and i hear it is very

> good,  i haven't made it out to hear him. as i have "married with

> children" syndrome.

> patricia

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:11:11 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Life imatates death

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

db: don't know don't know but sure do know that at least the DARE cop did his

 job.

no drugs, but here's a handgun, kiddo....

mc

 

CIRCULATION wrote:

 

> I heard on the news tonight about the kid who went beserk in Kentucky with a

> rifle and killed three of his classmates, & was supposedly influenced by a

 scene

> in the movie they made from Jim Carroll's BASKETBALL DIARIES. The scene

 depicts

> a kids fantasy of doing the same. killing all his classmates with a rifle.

>

> Has anyone heard any comments from Jim Carroll about this? Damn, at least the

> kids didn't start using drugs instead!

>

> Dave B.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:27:03 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Dylan Thomas

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

flack. no time to enumerate. but you get what you asked for:

flack.

mc

 

GTL1951 wrote:

 

> Hey- as for poetry other than American- you have Thomas, Rilke, and Yeats-

> anything else is a shallow imitation- wonder if I will get any flack on this?

> GT

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:41:14 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         DCardKJHS <DCardKJHS@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Apologizing to Your Mouth

Comments: To: Kindlesan@aol.com

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

Perhaps my response was a bit short...even curt, but I did NOT say that you

should shut your mouth.   I was pointing out that even though Jack and Neal

were not close personal friends of mine, I've been reading and studying them

for about 35 years.   Many list members are in this canoe with me and most of

us continue to paddle furiously.   Many feel that the movie did not present

the guys we have come to know...If a public apology on the list is

necessary...say the word and it shall be done...I have a tendency to respond

quickly and sharply... I need to work on that...I often give offense where

none is intended.

Dennis

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:51:57 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      Re: Dylan Thomas

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Me too, me too.

 

Marie Countryman wrote:

 

> flack. no time to enumerate. but you get what you asked for:

> flack.

> mc

>

> GTL1951 wrote:

>

> > Hey- as for poetry other than American- you have Thomas, Rilke, and Yeats-

> > anything else is a shallow imitation- wonder if I will get any flack on

 this?

> > GT

 

 

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:47:55 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Life imatates death

 

Marie, what a perfect response!  <grinning>  how are things, girl?  ciao,

sherri

-----Original Message-----

From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Friday, December 05, 1997 6:14 AM

Subject: Re: Life imatates death

 

 

>db: don't know don't know but sure do know that at least the DARE cop did

his

> job.

>no drugs, but here's a handgun, kiddo....

>mc

>

>CIRCULATION wrote:

>

>> I heard on the news tonight about the kid who went beserk in Kentucky

with a

>> rifle and killed three of his classmates, & was supposedly influenced by

a

> scene

>> in the movie they made from Jim Carroll's BASKETBALL DIARIES. The scene

> depicts

>> a kids fantasy of doing the same. killing all his classmates with a

rifle.

>>

>> Has anyone heard any comments from Jim Carroll about this? Damn, at least

the

>> kids didn't start using drugs instead!

>>

>> Dave B.

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:03:49 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Dylan Thomas

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

I have looked for flack, but darn it , my husband seemed to need all i

had last night , i find myself in the unusual postition of being low on

flack, try me later.

patricia

R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

>

> Me too, me too.

>

> Marie Countryman wrote:

>

> > flack. no time to enumerate. but you get what you asked for:

> > flack.

> > mc

> >

> > GTL1951 wrote:

> >

> > > Hey- as for poetry other than American- you have Thomas, Rilke, and Yeats-

> > > anything else is a shallow imitation- wonder if I will get any flack on

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:44:51 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      speaking of music

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

dylan's new CD is not only musically beauteous, with his singing

absolutely from the heart  and his lyrics among his finest poetry ever

written.

i suggest it heartily - put it on yr christmas list, blow money you

would have spent on something else,

but get it.

listen.

it's been years since i've been so enraptured by the man and his

writings, and of course his music.

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:12:32 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>

Subject:      apology

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: multipart/alternative;

              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007F_01BD014D.27D19C80"

 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

 

------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BD014D.27D19C80

Content-Type: text/plain;

        charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

using new e-mail program, looked like i was responding backchannel to =

Marie, sorry to have wasted bandwidth.

 

ciao, sherri

 

------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BD014D.27D19C80

Content-Type: text/html;

        charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">

<HTML>

<HEAD>

 

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =

http-equiv=3DContent-Type>

<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>

</HEAD>

<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>

<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript size=3D4><FONT =

size=3D5>using new e-mail=20

program, looked like i was responding backchannel to Marie, sorry to =

have wasted=20

bandwidth.</FONT></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript size=3D4><FONT=20

size=3D5></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 face=3DLoosieScript size=3D4><FONT =

size=3D5>ciao,=20

sherri</FONT></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

 

------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BD014D.27D19C80--

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:34:18 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         CIRCULATION <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Chelsea Hotel

 

Chelsea Clinton stayed at the Chelsea. So did Socks.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:04:35 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Chelsea Hotel

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

CIRCULATION wrote:

 

> Chelsea Clinton stayed at the Chelsea. So did Socks.

 

  wearing mrs nixon's cloth coat.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:26:42 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Chelsea Hotel

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 12:04 PM 12/5/97 +0000, Marie wrote:

>CIRCULATION wrote:

>

>> Chelsea Clinton stayed at the Chelsea. So did Socks.

>

>  wearing mrs nixon's cloth coat.

 

and Jackie K's leopard-skin pill-box hat

 

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:46:33 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RoadSide6 <RoadSide6@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Life imitates diaries

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

No word yet from the Jim Carroll camp. However, more likely than not, any

information available could be found at

http://home.forbin.com/~laverne/carroll/carroll.html, a page run by one Cassie

Carter, who seems to be in close contact with Carroll. As of today, there are

no updates, but I've put in an email w/ Carter asking if there will  be any

official "release" by Carroll & co.  I'll post any info I receive < if, in

fact, there is interest on the list.>

 

The website is quite an accomplishment, by the way --- sound & video, an

unpublished poem, performance schedules & reviews, rare photos, a bio, a

bibliography and tons of links. Hope all fellow Carroll-admirers check it

out...

 

Take care,

Starfishes from Seattle

L. Deal

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:53:37 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: SOTD

In-Reply-To:  Message of Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:50:56 -0500 from

              <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

 

I expected more of a marathon reading as was the case with the OTR celebration.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:10:06 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RoadSide6 <RoadSide6@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: elf abuse

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

Speakin' of elf abuse -- has anyone else checked out David Sedaris' amazing

short story in his '95 book BARREL FEVER? Well, the story SantaLand Diaries is

a hoot -- detailing the abuses of a Macy's Elf.... It'd put anyone in the Xmas

spirit...

 

Happy Holidays...hehe

LD

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:48:05 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Michael McClure and Jim Morrison.

In-Reply-To:  <3487BA9E.3C78@egenet.com.tr>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Murat says:

>> Jim Morrison Interview by Jerry Hopkins - Rolling Stone 26th jul 1969.?

>> []yes

>> []no

>  [+] i dont know.

>

> Yrs,

> Murat.

*****************************

Murat e tutti voi cari amici,

 

Jim Morrison interviewed tell he was writing a screenplay

together with Michael McClure on the basis of a unpublished

McClure's novel. McClure typewrites directly the ideas when

they are together. The plot of the movie is a story about

three characters looking for a psychic treasure... one of

them called Rourke is neo-capitalist devoted to the revolution...

both are longhair hippies... and they took the airplane to Mexico

and they meet a black kid called Derner. The trio ventured

out to the desert in order to meet a border guard to pull

off a robbery...

 

Jim Morrison's as cinema student at UCLA was described by

Oliver Stones' movie "The Doors" (1991)

 

an italian remark sideway, Tito Schipa jr was the italian

translator of Jim Morrison's lyrics and poems.

Tito Schipa senior (Lecce 1889- New York 1965) was a famous

tenor opera singer.

 

i hope this help, and other friends can help you to further dig a

lot mcclure and morrison connection,

 

                The blue bus is calling us

                The blue bus is calling us

                Driver where you taking us?

 

saluti da

Rinaldo.

_________

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:57:14 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         tristan saldana <hbeng175@EMAIL.CSUN.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Michael McClure and Jim Morrison.

In-Reply-To:  <3.0.1.32.19971205224805.00b746dc@pop.gpnet.it>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

I saw McClure and Manzarek at the LA County Museum of Art in October.

They had a one-hour gig.  McClure performed his poetry and Manzarek did

the interpreting with the piano.  Manzarek played "Riders on the Storm" to

one of McClures pieces.  It was quite good.  Manzarek and McClure said the

there is an Egyptian belief that whenever you say a person's name that

you, in effect, resurrect their spirit.  They closed with saying Jim's

name.

 

Tristan

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:02:19 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      Re: speaking of music

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Marie:

 

I was sitting here listening to TOOM and thinking about how good this work

is by Bob Dylan.  When I see your post. Listen to the woman folks, she

knows what she is talking about here.  I love it when he say, "People

asked me about you, but I didn't tell them everything I knew!"  "I'm gonna

find me a janitor to sweep" Marie "off her feet."

 

Still a Million miles from you, I am

 

Bentz

Marie Countryman wrote:

 

> dylan's new CD is not only musically beauteous, with his singing

> absolutely from the heart  and his lyrics among his finest poetry ever

> written.

> i suggest it heartily - put it on yr christmas list, blow money you

> would have spent on something else,

> but get it.

> listen.

> it's been years since i've been so enraptured by the man and his

> writings, and of course his music.

> mc

 

 

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:04:49 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Ryan White <whitery@UCS.ORST.EDU>

Subject:      Re: beat influence

In-Reply-To:  <34873D39.BA1B343@mail.wdn.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Sara Brosnan wrote:

 

> >  As far as i know punk/rap/rock band RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE got some

> >

> > influence from the beats: The Solist reads Allen Ginsberg poem America

> >

> > before each concert and in lyrics of song "Take The Power Back" it

> > says

> > ">its the beats and lyrics they fear." But i am not very sure if they

> > are telling the same beats...

> >

> > (From the album Rage Against the Machine.)

> >

>

> I've been hearing a lot about RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE from various

> sources.  And I like the lyrics to "Take the Power Back".  Does anyone

> have any sugessitions of what album would be best to buy?

>

> Sara

>

>

There first, self-titled album is the best.  There second album, "Evil

Empire" is also very, very good!

Buh-Bye!

 

Ryan

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:02:00 -0600

Reply-To:     cawilkie@comic.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>

Subject:      Re: the last time ....

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> Ugh... a friend loaned me the movie after she had rented it and before she

> had to take it back to the video store. I don't know whether it was the

> offensive portrayal of Neal, or the lame portrayal of Allen,

 

 

 

I don't remember a "portrayal of allen" in the movie.

 

did i miss that part completely?

 

cathy

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:08:34 -0600

Reply-To:     cawilkie@comic.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>

Subject:      Louis Ginsberg poem

MIME-Version: 1.0

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> From:

>         "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

>

>

> beat-l'ers

> just thought that some of you migt like to read this poem by Luois

> Ginsberg, from his _Morning in Spring and other poems_

>

> "To a mother, buried"

>

> Naomi, when the world swam away,

> and the windows grew blind,

> were you thinking about who searched endless corridors

> of sanitariums, hoping to find

> His old lost love?

> now with eart above

> do you know that your lawyer son, Eugene,

> often will start,

> at the grief, shaking,

> the dungeon of his heart?

> if only you knew how

> your poet son, Allen,

> Raves over the world,

> Crazed for the love of you.

>

 

 

 

I must say, this is the first time i've read Louis' work.  In just this

one poem, you can see why Allen might have chosen poetry as his main

life's work.  Please share more of his poems, and any info about louis'

books would also be appreciated.

 

cathy

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:31:55 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: the last time ....

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 09:02 PM 12/5/97 -0600, cathy wrote:

 

>I don't remember a "portrayal of allen" in the movie.

>did i miss that part completely?

 

I believe he was in the football scene?

 

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:15:06 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Shani St.John" <lawlaw1@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: the last time....

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Diane De Rooy

Sent:   Thursday, December 04, 1997 9:02 AM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: the last time....

 

In a message dated 97-12-04 02:16:31 EST, John wrote:

 

<< has anyone else had the sad misfortune of seeing a film called "The last

 time i committed suicide"  >>

 

I don't know whether it was the

offensive portrayal of Neal, or the lame portrayal of Allen, or the stupid

jerky camera affectations, or the contrived hipness of the soundtrack, but

itwas, without exception, the most stupefyingly dumb <fill in the blank> I had

ever rewound after 17 minutes.

diane

 

Hmmm....I don't know, I didn't hate it.  I think the camera was present almost

as a character in the film.  It's like the director was trying to imitate

Cassady's frenetic movement visually.  Overall, I agree it did seem too . . .

slick? If the homosexual male was a portrayal of A.G, it was way off . . . I

agree with you there.  But it seemed like EVERYTHING about the film  was kind

of exaggerated...

(Ferlinghetti basically said that the actor playing Neal looked too preppy and

clean-cut.    I don't think the actor really looked preppy at all; his style

seemed very current(as far as "gen-x", GAP,etc.)  But IMO the current styles

harken back to the way they were dressing in the fifties.)

Anyway, back to the exaggeration thing:  was there a purpose for it

sylistically(sp)? I think the director was struggling to characterize a man

who defied characterization.  He was a legend.  I really think it is hard to

portray someone like that honestly.  Kerouac faced the same issue in Visions

of Cody.  It was like he was twisting, turning, telling, re-telling, making

false starts, in his attempt to find TRUTH.  In the end he reached the same

conclusion that the director(Steven kays?) did: How reliable is one man's

vision of another man.  The movie is flawed, but necessarily so.  Why did you

think the portrayal of Cassady was offensive?  I think it was at least true to

his letter .  It was definitely true to my(second-hand) visions of neal. He

lived his life at lightening speed to avoid thinking about . . .the last time

he committed suicide?  It's like he was living with all of these regrets about

a life he may have considered mis-directed.  In order to survive, he had to

exist two steps ahead.  In the end, I guess, he just get swept under by the

tide.  The point is that I kind of like. . . dig this movie!  How's that for

contrived hipness:)

O.K, back to the point: I think the movie shows us the humanity of an amazing

(and flawed) individual.

 

Sorry to be so longwinded.  I hope this convoluted mess makes sense.

Good-night all!

 

Shani

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:15:14 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Shani St.John" <lawlaw1@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: the last time....

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Diane De Rooy

Sent:   Thursday, December 04, 1997 9:02 AM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: the last time....

 

In a message dated 97-12-04 02:16:31 EST, John wrote:

 

<< has anyone else had the sad misfortune of seeing a film called "The last

 time i committed suicide"  >>

 

Ugh... a friend loaned me the movie after she had rented it and before she

had to take it back to the video store. I don't know whether it was the

offensive portrayal of Neal, or the lame portrayal of Allen, or the stupid

jerky camera affectations, or the contrived hipness of the soundtrack, but it

was, without exception, the most stupefyingly dumb <fill in the blank> I had

ever rewound after 17 minutes. I simply could not watch it. And I can't think

of another movie I've ever felt that way about.

 

diane

 

Hmmm....I don't know, I didn't hate it.  I think the camera was present almost

as a character in the film.  It's like the director was trying to imitate

Cassady's frenetic movement visually.  Overall, it does seem somewhat . . .

slick? If the homosexual male was a portrayal of A.G, it was way off . . . I

agree with you there.  But it seemed like EVERYTHING about the film  was kind

of exaggerated...

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 6 Dec 1997 01:22:23 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         GYENIS <GYENIS@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Just a little bad news

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

For people who didn't know, Micheal Hedges, guitarist extraordinaire, passed

on this past week. He was a guitarist best known for being a Windham Hill

Records, but really, his live shows (and I only saw two) were incredible. He

was one of those pure whimsical souls that this planet just doen't have enough

of. He was 43 and drove his car off the road in Calif, north of San Fran. He

does have some great songs as well as great covers. I'm sad to say I only have

one record by him and one Windham Hill compilation that includes him. I always

thought that I would catch up to him (go see his shows) when I have a little

more money. Now it won't help no matter how much money I have.

 

so it goes,       but go do your thing,

Attila

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 6 Dec 1997 04:45:16 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Glenn Cooper <coopergw@MPX.COM.AU>

Subject:      Re: pop music and the beats.

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.OSF.3.91.971205001339.4060B-100000@turbo.kean.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

aAt 00:19 05/12/97 -0500, you wrote:

>has anyone mentioned the 10,000 Maniacs song, "Hey Jack Kerouac" ? This

>is an obvious beat influenced song by Natale Merchant. I have seen a few

>postings about rage against the machine. Can't say i like them personally

>because after meeting with the lead singer and actually talking about

>current issues of the time, i found him to be a sheer hypocrite. Back in

>1993 during the Lollapalooza tour, rage was playing. At the spoken word

>tent he was answering questions by the fans that decided to visit him in

>the tent. When the singer, Zak, was asked if he would support free speech

>he said, "of course." When asked if he would support Howard STern and his

>fight against the FCC, zak changed his tune and said, "No way man.

>Howard is a racist." If memory serves correct, Zak was the same "racist"

>who insisted of only having native americans at some of his shows in the

>mid west. Funny how some people try to play both sides of the fence.

>

>                                                jason

 

Steve Earle has a song called "I'm The Other Kind" which has lyrics that go:

 

"Before you can say Jack Kerouac

Just turn your back

And I'll be gone"

 

 

Glenn C.

---------------------------------------------------------

"Life does not imitate art, it imitates bad television."

                                    -- Woody Allen

---------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:01:37 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      THE PINE by Dylan Thomas

In-Reply-To:  <199712051726.MAA07800@ionline.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

        THE PINE                by Dylan Thomas (1929)

 

        Virgate and sprung of the dusk,

        The pine is the tree of the breeze,

        And the winds that stream through the ribboned light

        And the motley winds from the seas.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:34:29 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Dylan Thomas

Comments: To: Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@is8.nyu.edu>

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.OSF.3.95.971205074709.7055B-100000@is8.nyu.edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Nancy B Brodsky wrote:

 

> I thought Bob Dylan's real name was Robert Zimmerman...

>

 

Yes, Bob Dylan was born Robert Zimmerman.  When he moved to New York, and

started playing clubs, he wanted a less semitic name and changed it to

Bob Dillon (Dillon being his maternal grandfather's last name)

Supposedly, right before he signed his first album contract, he changed

the spelling to "Dylan" because people were always misspelling Dillon and

leaving off one of the "i's"  He figured if people were going to spell it

Bob "Dilon", it looked better with a "y" than an "i"

 

The story that he changed his name in honor of Dylan Thomas was a total

myth probably fabricated by the press.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 6 Dec 1997 09:32:32 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Dylan Thomas

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Richard Wallner wrote:

>

> On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Nancy B Brodsky wrote:

>

> > I thought Bob Dylan's real name was Robert Zimmerman...

> >

>

> Yes, Bob Dylan was born Robert Zimmerman.  When he moved to New York, and

> started playing clubs, he wanted a less semitic name and changed it to

> Bob Dillon (Dillon being his maternal grandfather's last name)

> Supposedly, right before he signed his first album contract, he changed

> the spelling to "Dylan" because people were always misspelling Dillon and

> leaving off one of the "i's"  He figured if people were going to spell it

> Bob "Dilon", it looked better with a "y" than an "i"

>

> The story that he changed his name in honor of Dylan Thomas was a total

> myth probably fabricated by the press.

 

my understanding was that the shift to Dillon came earlier perhaps after

his journey to Denver but definitely still in the Dinkytown days.  The

same reason of a less semetic name at the University of Minnesota was

what i'd heard.  it is difficult to say, it seems to me, what legends

about "bob" are productions of the press and which are yarns he spun at

one time or another merely to discard when the press began to think they

had him "figured out".

 

i recall about five years ago i was teaching a course on the rhetoric of

protest music somewhere along the Mississippi and i sent off to a bunch

of folks for more information (addresses which had accumulated over the

years and never followed through on). . . . i wrote this kind of

formalish note about teaching this course and looking for more

information about bob dillon which might me useful in the course.  i

received a reply saying "it's D-Y-L-A-N you idiot!".  I got a real kick

out of that.  Never did get around to filling the fools in on the rest

of the story.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:03:57 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Just a little bad news

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Didn't know of Michael Hedges work Attila, but will chase the album down.

I'm a big fan of Leo Kottke, Richard Thompson, Bert Jansch, Sandy Bull, John

Fahey but hadn't heard Hedges. Is he like any of them in style?

 

        Thanks for the tip and the tribute.

 

                Antoine

 

 

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never

cease to be amused."

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:29:19 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      read kerouac

In-Reply-To:  <199712051726.MAA07800@ionline.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~eddietwo/indeterminacy/names.html

http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~eddietwo/indeterminacy/s.cgi?174

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:32:48 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Carl A Biancucci <carl@WORLD.STD.COM>

Subject:      Re: Chelsea Hotel

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.OSF.3.95.971205074814.7055C-100000@is8.nyu.edu> from "Nancy

              B Brodsky" at Dec 5, 97 07:48:37 am

Mime-Version: 1.0

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This may sound like a silly question,but here goes anyways...

 

Have any of you ever stayed at the Chelsea?

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:42:04 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: speaking of music

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

thanks for your response, bentz: when most girls my age were choosing jr prom

dresses and jr high pom pom squads, i was buying dylan 45s and listnenig to

al kooper mike bloomfield, etc. i have yet to meet a woman who can listen to

music the way my guy friends can. i know they are out there. it's just so

nice to be able to talk music off or on list. btw, i am mad for dave

matthews, for lyrics and great fusion instrumentals. when i tell most folks

that, i have to duck the rotten vegggies.

"but i'm tryin to get to heaven before they close the door" as dylan tells

us. time is short. follow your bliss.

this year i have lost everything and gained twice as much in spirtuality..

mc

 

R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

 

> Marie:

>

> I was sitting here listening to TOOM and thinking about how good this work

> is by Bob Dylan.  When I see your post. Listen to the woman folks, she

> knows what she is talking about here.  I love it when he say, "People

> asked me about you, but I didn't tell them everything I knew!"  "I'm gonna

> find me a janitor to sweep" Marie "off her feet."

>

> Still a Million miles from you, I am

>

> Bentz

> Marie Countryman wrote:

>

> > dylan's new CD is not only musically beauteous, with his singing

> > absolutely from the heart  and his lyrics among his finest poetry ever

> > written.

> > i suggest it heartily - put it on yr christmas list, blow money you

> > would have spent on something else,

> > but get it.

> > listen.

> > it's been years since i've been so enraptured by the man and his

> > writings, and of course his music.

> > mc

>

> --

>

> Peace,

>

> Bentz

> bocelts@scsn.net

> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:24:12 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Hpark4 <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Chelsea Hotel

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

I stayed at the Chelsea once.  The room was a suite and it was economical (for

New York City) because I was with four others.  I don't think its very

practical to stay there if you're alone.  The location is good too - New York

really has very few hotels near Grenwhich Village.  It's funky - its fun to

waunder the halls.  The lobby is great - lots of interesting artwork.  It sure

beats a Holiday Inn!

 

Howard

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:31:41 -0800

Reply-To:     Sherri <love_singing@email.msn.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@EMAIL.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: speaking of music

 

ah marie - you haven't listened to music with me!!!  ciao, sherri

-----Original Message-----

From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Saturday, December 06, 1997 9:54 AM

Subject: Re: speaking of music

 

 

>thanks for your response, bentz: when most girls my age were choosing jr

prom

>dresses and jr high pom pom squads, i was buying dylan 45s and listnenig to

>al kooper mike bloomfield, etc. i have yet to meet a woman who can listen

to

>music the way my guy friends can. i know they are out there. it's just so

>nice to be able to talk music off or on list. btw, i am mad for dave

>matthews, for lyrics and great fusion instrumentals. when i tell most folks

>that, i have to duck the rotten vegggies.

>"but i'm tryin to get to heaven before they close the door" as dylan tells

>us. time is short. follow your bliss.

>this year i have lost everything and gained twice as much in spirtuality..

>mc

>

>R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

>

>> Marie:

>>

>> I was sitting here listening to TOOM and thinking about how good this

work

>> is by Bob Dylan.  When I see your post. Listen to the woman folks, she

>> knows what she is talking about here.  I love it when he say, "People

>> asked me about you, but I didn't tell them everything I knew!"  "I'm

gonna

>> find me a janitor to sweep" Marie "off her feet."

>>

>> Still a Million miles from you, I am

>>

>> Bentz

>> Marie Countryman wrote:

>>

>> > dylan's new CD is not only musically beauteous, with his singing

>> > absolutely from the heart  and his lyrics among his finest poetry ever

>> > written.

>> > i suggest it heartily - put it on yr christmas list, blow money you

>> > would have spent on something else,

>> > but get it.

>> > listen.

>> > it's been years since i've been so enraptured by the man and his

>> > writings, and of course his music.

>> > mc

>>

>> --

>>

>> Peace,

>>

>> Bentz

>> bocelts@scsn.net

>> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:06:26 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Dylan Thomas

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 10:34 AM 12/6/97 -0500, Richard Wallner wrote:

>On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Nancy B Brodsky wrote:

>

>> I thought Bob Dylan's real name was Robert Zimmerman...

>>

>

>Yes, Bob Dylan was born Robert Zimmerman.  When he moved to New York, and

>started playing clubs, he wanted a less semitic name and changed it to

>Bob Dillon (Dillon being his maternal grandfather's last name)

>Supposedly, right before he signed his first album contract, he changed

>the spelling to "Dylan" because people were always misspelling Dillon and

>leaving off one of the "i's"  He figured if people were going to spell it

>Bob "Dilon", it looked better with a "y" than an "i"

>

>The story that he changed his name in honor of Dylan Thomas was a total

>myth probably fabricated by the press.

 

I was refering to an alias, "Robert Milkwood Thomas,"

that Dylan recorded under.  Zimmerman is his birth

name.  I thought he took his name from Marshall Matt

Dillon from Gunsmoke. {;^>  Just around the time

he ran away from home and was travelling with the

circus. . .

 

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 6 Dec 1997 20:10:41 +0000

Reply-To:     caridade@mail.telepac.pt

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         caridade <caridade@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>

Subject:      Re: read kerouac

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

>

> http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~eddietwo/indeterminacy/names.html

> http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~eddietwo/indeterminacy/s.cgi?174

 

Sorry Rinaldo but don't you mean read John Cage?

That texts is one of the indeterminacies written by Cage.

 

daniel

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:08:23 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Hpark4 <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: speaking of music

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

At the risk of seeming bragadocious I had the privlige of seeing Mr. Bob Dylan

last Thursday and Friday nights at the 9:30 Club in Washington, DC.  It was a

real treat to see Dylan at a "small" 1,000 person capacity club.  It was fun

to see the ol' sage having fun himself as he actually smiled several times.

He is in great form these days - like always he looks to me like he could put

on 10 pounds or so - but he's a long, long way from knockin' on heavens door!

Each night he played for a solid two hours - mixing old and new.  Songs like

Maggies Farm, Rainy Day Woman, Highway 61, Mr. Tamborine Man, It Ain't Me

Babe, etc. are in heavy rotation on his set list (he does use one).

 

Bob will be honored by President Clinton at the Kennedy Center tomorrow.  I

think it will be broadcast on public television sometime in the future (check

listings under "The Kennedy Center Honors").

 

Howard Park

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:16:58 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: speaking of music

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 04:08 PM 12/6/97 EST, Howard Park wrote:

 

>Bob will be honored by President Clinton at the

>Kennedy Center tomorrow.  I think it will be

>broadcast on public television sometime in the future

>(check listings under "The Kennedy Center Honors").

 

The performance at the Kennedy Center will be recorded

by CBS television and will be broadcast on December 26th

from 9PM to 11PM.  I believe Dylan will not be performing.

But his award will be taped.

 

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:21:39 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Chelsea Hotel

In-Reply-To:  <89310064.3489984f@aol.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

A good hotel is The Washington Square Hotel on Washington Place, right

near my building. Attatched to it is the restaurant, C3, which is nice

place to eat but not too expensive...

 On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Hpark4 wrote:

 

> I stayed at the Chelsea once.  The room was a suite and it was economical (for

> New York City) because I was with four others.  I don't think its very

> practical to stay there if you're alone.  The location is good too - New York

> really has very few hotels near Grenwhich Village.  It's funky - its fun to

> waunder the halls.  The lobby is great - lots of interesting artwork.  It sure

> beats a Holiday Inn!

>

> Howard

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:52:21 -0600

Reply-To:     cawilkie@comic.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>

Subject:      LTICS "portrayal of allen"??????

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> Subject:

>         Re: the last time ....

>   Date:

>         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:31:55 -0500

>   From:

>         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

>

>

> At 09:02 PM 12/5/97 -0600, cathy wrote:

>

> >I don't remember a "portrayal of allen" in the movie.

> >did i miss that part completely?

>

> I believe he was in the football scene?

>

> Mike

 

 

 

I'm convinced thoroughly that I heard that character called by a

different name.  Did Cassady and ginsberg know each other at the time of

the composition of the "cherry mary" letter?????

 

If I have to, i will rent the movie again just to ascertain whether that

was, or was not, supposed to be allen.

 

cathy

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:53:44 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: read kerouac

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 97-12-06 12:09:28 EST, you write:

 

<< http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~eddietwo/indeterminacy/names.html

 http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~eddietwo/indeterminacy/s.cgi?174 >>

 

what are these web pages?

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 6 Dec 1997 19:01:30 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      Dylan

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Mike:

 

You wrote:

 

> Just around the time

> he ran away from home and was travelling with the

> circus. . .

>

I thought he was traveling with a carnival down in Texas, working swap

meets.  Then his ride broke down in Mobile.  He had to hitch all the way

up Highway 61 to get back home.  And when he was in Missouri, they

wouldn't let him be.  It seems that sometime around then he tried the

North Country but finally followed Woody to New York.  Lived at the

Chelsea Hotel, and down on Elizabeth Street,  maybe 4th for a while.

No, I am positive about that.  Anyway, last I heard, he was playing a

show in Miami!

 

Could be the same Dillion that was in the Circus.  Could be.  I heard he

was spotted in Lowell once, with Dr. Sax in the band.  But that was a

rumor.  And it was probably planted in the press.  Rinaldo, have you

ever seen him in Italy?  I heard he traveled there under the name of

Gray!  With a widow.  But, me I'm still on the road, headed for another

joint.

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:36:04 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Dylan

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

>

> Mike:

>

> You wrote:

>

> > Just around the time

> > he ran away from home and was travelling with the

> > circus. .

 but finally followed Woody to New York.

>

> Peace,

>

> Bentz

> bocelts@scsn.net

> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

 

according to newspaper reports, he went to new york to see woody the day

i was born .... (not making that up <grin>)

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 6 Dec 1997 20:13:13 -0500

Reply-To:     "henkel@wmich.edu" <henkel@wmich.edu>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Scott Henkel <henkel@WMICH.EDU>

Organization: OVPR

Subject:      Re: Kerouac and The Fifties

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

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Did anyone see the piece on Jack on the History channel Friday night? I missed

 it. Can you fill me in or wasn't it worth watching?

Scott

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From:   Richard Miller [SMTP:richard@EMF.NET]

Sent:   Wednesday, December 03, 1997 8:50 PM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Kerouac and The Fifties

 

The History Channel is doing a 7 hr special on The Fifties and on Friday

night (12/5) they examine the impact of Jack Kerouac and Elvis Presley.So

far its been pretty well done.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 6 Dec 1997 23:02:59 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Just a little bad news

In-Reply-To:  <762c3cb0.3488ef21@aol.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

He was a New Age artist according to obits I read,

innovated by playing guitar strings at the top of

the kneck and the bottom at the same time.

 

Mike Rice

 

At 01:22 AM 12/6/97 EST, you wrote:

>For people who didn't know, Micheal Hedges, guitarist extraordinaire, passed

>on this past week. He was a guitarist best known for being a Windham Hill

>Records, but really, his live shows (and I only saw two) were incredible. He

>was one of those pure whimsical souls that this planet just doen't have

enough

>of. He was 43 and drove his car off the road in Calif, north of San Fran. He

>does have some great songs as well as great covers. I'm sad to say I only

have

>one record by him and one Windham Hill compilation that includes him. I

always

>thought that I would catch up to him (go see his shows) when I have a little

>more money. Now it won't help no matter how much money I have.

>

>so it goes,       but go do your thing,

>Attila

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 6 Dec 1997 23:49:41 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Harry Smith article

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Jens,

 

        A bit late I know, but thanks for going to the trouble of putting

the Folk Roots article about Harry Smith at your site. I've had the reissue

for about ten days now after first spending a summer with the anthology in

1962 or '63. Any of you who have followed up on Jens suggestion should.

Harry Smith was among other things responsible for making many, many

recordings of Ginsberg reading - lived with him for about a year. A truly

fascinating multi-dimesional character. And the Anthology is wonderful

although maybe not to everybody's taste....race and hillbilly recordings

from the years 1927 to 1932 more or less.

 

        Thanks Jens.

 

                Antoine

 

Jens Harry Smith article page.....

http://home1.inet.tele.dk/jenskoch/harry1.htm

 

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never

cease to be amused."

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 6 Dec 1997 23:00:16 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      hillbilly journals  Re: Harry Smith article

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Antoine Maloney wrote:

> And the Anthology is wonderful

> although maybe not to everybody's taste....race and hillbilly recordings

>

 

oh yeah i remember making those recordings <grin>....funny this note

about hillbilly recordings came to my computer just moments after i'd

accidentally found an old journal notebook with my tales of driving deep

back into my maternal roots in the hill country of Kentucky.  Muses Mill

to be exact.  In my more psychotic moments over the years the towns name

has taken on meaning all out of proportion to sensibility.  Listening to

an old hillbilly singer right now singing mothers and fathers throughout

the land don't criticize what you can't understand and i guess that goes

for non-hillbilly's understanding those of us with some hillbilly genes

and blood running through our systems.  (do you have hillbilly blood

Antoine?)

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 00:23:04 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      test

Comments: To: henkel@wmich.edu

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

test

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 6 Dec 1997 21:38:26 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: LTICS "portrayal of allen"??????

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>> Subject:

>>         Re: the last time ....

>>   Date:

>>         Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:31:55 -0500

>>   From:

>>         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

>>

>>

>> At 09:02 PM 12/5/97 -0600, cathy wrote:

>>

>> >I don't remember a "portrayal of allen" in the movie.

>> >did i miss that part completely?

>>

>> I believe he was in the football scene?

>>

>> Mike

>

>

>

>I'm convinced thoroughly that I heard that character called by a

>different name.  Did Cassady and ginsberg know each other at the time of

>the composition of the "cherry mary" letter?????

>

 

That character (whatever the name was) was clearly based on Ginsberg.  The

character was not in the story in the book.

 

I think this invented character is symptomatic of the problems of the movie

and maoviemaker in general that made it a not so good movie (although I did

not have the strong negative reaction against it others seem to have had--I

think it was almost a good movie.)

 

Other similar inventions are also symptomatic including the difference

where in the movie near the end Cassady's friend comes out of the bar and

begs him and cajoles Neal to go in and have a drink.  This is quite

different than in the book where cassady writes he walked by the bar and

saw his friend inside and decided to go in and have a drink.  No cajoling

in the book.

 

etc...

 

 

>If I have to, i will rent the movie again just to ascertain whether that

>was, or was not, supposed to be allen.

>

>cathy

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 01:33:05 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: hillbilly journals  Re: Harry Smith article

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

do you have hillbilly blood Antoine?

 

...asked david rhaesa

 

 

        Only in so far that there was/is a strong Irish component in them

thar hills! The music has a definite hold on me despite being a Brooklyn boy

living in Quebec...I slipped under the spell of Doc Watson, the New Lost

City Ramblers, Hazel Dickens swirled together with all early blues.

 

        Gotta love anything on a fiddle, dulcimer, autoharp, bo diddly or

slide guitar!

 

                Antoine

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never

cease to be amused."

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 04:25:37 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: hillbilly journals  Re: Harry Smith article

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 11:00 PM 12/6/97 -0600, david rhaesa wrote:

 

>Listening to an old hillbilly singer right now

>singing mothers and fathers throughout

>the land don't criticize what you can't understand

>and i guess that goes for non-hillbilly's understanding

>those of us with some hillbilly genes and blood running

>through our systems.

 

Hmm, 4:15 am and too much Sleeman's Dark in me

(fell off the wagon two wks ago at the Horseshoe).

Tool is rifling off in the background (after Dr. Disc xmas

party).  Are Tool hillbilly's? {;^>  Kinda the same thing -

"Fuck you buddy!!"  A little cynical tonight, not much

different than the day, I guess. . .

 

Michel Gateaupain

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 04:37:30 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Dylan

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 07:01 PM 12/6/97 -0500, Bentz wrote:

 

>I thought he was traveling with a carnival down in

>Texas, working swap meets.  Then his ride broke down

>in Mobile.  He had to hitch all the way up Highway 61

>to get back home.  And when he was in Missouri, they

>wouldn't let him be.  It seems that sometime around

>then he tried the North Country but finally followed Woody

>to New York.  Lived at the Chelsea Hotel, and down on

>Elizabeth Street,  maybe 4th for a while.

>No, I am positive about that.  Anyway, last I heard, he was

>playing a show in Miami!

>

>Could be the same Dillion that was in the Circus.  Could

>be.  I heard he was spotted in Lowell once, with Dr. Sax

>in the band.  But that was a rumor.  And it was probably

>planted in the press.  Rinaldo, have you ever seen him

>in Italy?  I heard he traveled there under the name of

>Gray!  With a widow.  But, me I'm still on the road, headed

>for another joint.

 

Reminds me of a personal ad I once saw:

 

"do people tell you to your

face youve changed?  do you

feel offended?  are you seeking

companionship?  are you plump?

4 ft. 5?  if you fit & are

a full blooded alcoholic

catholic, please call

UH2-6969

 

                                        ask for Oompa"

 

>From _Tarantula_ by Bob Dylan

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 11:22:56 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Dylan

In-Reply-To:  <3489E759.4DC97EB2@scsn.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

caro Bentz, (good sunday) buona domenica!,

 

non so se questo e' di aiuto a te (i dunno if this helps you)

e gli amici (and to the friends) but the connection is (ma il

collegamento e')

Zimmerman->Zimbo->Dillion->Dylan.

che Bob Dylan abbia cambiato nome in onore di

Dylan Thomas non sembra accertato (it seems that Bob Dylan don't

choose his name as a tribute to english poet Dylan Thomas).

 

by the good office of the catholic culture bob dylan 'll be

an icon in the x-mas crib (cre'che), and it's not a bad news...

 

in the early 70s' i tried to see the Wings in San Marco Square

but the hugeness of people stop the trafic on the bridge...

in 1989 the Pink Floyd great performace... then the venice town

council stopped the rock meeting in Venice cuz they scared

by the electronic sound shattering the medieval monuments as

in a futuristic/post-modernist/dream/nightmare...

 

p.s. Bob Dylan says tha 'On the Road' "changed my life

        like everyone else's"

 

cari saluti (best wishes) da

 

Rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 06:55:27 -0500

Reply-To:     blackj@bigmagic.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Al Aronowitz <blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>

Subject:      Re: Dylan

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

>

> caro Bentz, (good sunday) buona domenica!,

>

> non so se questo e' di aiuto a te (i dunno if this helps you)

> e gli amici (and to the friends) but the connection is (ma il

> collegamento e')

> Zimmerman->Zimbo->Dillion->Dylan.

> che Bob Dylan abbia cambiato nome in onore di

> Dylan Thomas non sembra accertato (it seems that Bob Dylan don't

> choose his name as a tribute to english poet Dylan Thomas).

>

> by the good office of the catholic culture bob dylan 'll be

> an icon in the x-mas crib (cre'che), and it's not a bad news...

>

> in the early 70s' i tried to see the Wings in San Marco Square

> but the hugeness of people stop the trafic on the bridge...

> in 1989 the Pink Floyd great performace... then the venice town

> council stopped the rock meeting in Venice cuz they scared

> by the electronic sound shattering the medieval monuments as

> in a futuristic/post-modernist/dream/nightmare...

>

> p.s. Bob Dylan says tha 'On the Road' "changed my life

>         like everyone else's"

>

> cari saluti (best wishes) da

>

> Rinaldo.

CARO RINALDO:  Please, can you tell me what is the source of that

statement: "Bob Dylan says that OTR changed my life like everyone

else's."  (To which I might also add Bob Dylan changed MY life like

everyone else's.)  Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg, the Beatles, Bob

Dylan!  Quite a 1-2-3-4 punch! --Al Aronowitz

--

***************************************

Al Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST

http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 06:57:34 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: speaking of music

MIME-Version: 1.0

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              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

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green with envy but glad to hear he is as strong as his latest CD

last time i saw him was as opener for grateful dead in Higate, vermont - with

 hot

guitar player jo jo jackson, i believe was the name. hot and heavy full metal

assault on crowd of 100,000 or so --totally freaked out by massive crowd and

whisked away in limo or helicopter or similar such exit. but excellent show.

1,000 folk two nights in a row, jealous jealous jealous

mc

 

Hpark4 wrote:

 

> At the risk of seeming bragadocious I had the privlige of seeing Mr. Bob Dylan

> last Thursday and Friday nights at the 9:30 Club in Washington, DC.  It was a

> real treat to see Dylan at a "small" 1,000 person capacity club.  It was fun

> to see the ol' sage having fun himself as he actually smiled several times.

> He is in great form these days - like always he looks to me like he could put

> on 10 pounds or so - but he's a long, long way from knockin' on heavens door!

> Each night he played for a solid two hours - mixing old and new.  Songs like

> Maggies Farm, Rainy Day Woman, Highway 61, Mr. Tamborine Man, It Ain't Me

> Babe, etc. are in heavy rotation on his set list (he does use one).

>

> Bob will be honored by President Clinton at the Kennedy Center tomorrow.  I

> think it will be broadcast on public television sometime in the future (check

> listings under "The Kennedy Center Honors").

>

> Howard Park

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 07:22:37 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: test

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

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you passed!

 

Mike Rice wrote:

 

> test

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 08:17:40 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Naropa Institute

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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Hey- if any members have an address or phone number for the Naropa Institute

out in I belive Boulder,CO i would be most grateful. Been trying to track them

down. Thanks

                                        Gene

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 07:23:23 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Naropa Institute

MIME-Version: 1.0

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GTL1951 wrote:

>

> Hey- if any members have an address or phone number for the Naropa Institute

> out in I belive Boulder,CO i would be most grateful. Been trying to track them

> down. Thanks

>                                         Gene

 

its on arapahoe in boulder.  i found in by doing a web search when i

wandered through a few months back

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 07:32:55 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: hillbilly journals  Re: Harry Smith article

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M. Cakebread wrote:

>

> At 11:00 PM 12/6/97 -0600, david rhaesa wrote:

>

> >Listening to an old hillbilly singer right now

> >singing mothers and fathers throughout

> >the land don't criticize what you can't understand

> >and i guess that goes for non-hillbilly's understanding

> >those of us with some hillbilly genes and blood running

> >through our systems.

>

> Hmm, 4:15 am and too much Sleeman's Dark in me

> (fell off the wagon two wks ago at the Horseshoe).

> Tool is rifling off in the background (after Dr. Disc xmas

> party).  Are Tool hillbilly's? {;^>  Kinda the same thing -

> "Fuck you buddy!!"  A little cynical tonight, not much

> different than the day, I guess. . .

>

> Michel Gateaupain

 

 

cynical's fine by me

someday we'll compare wagon's and whatnot maybe

hillbilly's anything ya want it to be really

wonderful journey i had back into the hills those years ago

gonna pack up my cynicism and head to the filling station

to see what day it is and read a little

of Dr. Sax.

I'm playing the Count for halloween this January.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 12:54:51 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Dylan

In-Reply-To:  <348A8EAE.7FAA@bigmagic.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

>>

 

>> p.s. Bob Dylan says tha 'On the Road' "changed my life

>>         like everyone else's"

>>

>> cari saluti (best wishes) da

>>

>> Rinaldo.

>CARO RINALDO:

>Please, can you tell me what is the source of that

>statement: "Bob Dylan says that OTR changed my life like everyone

>else's."  (To which I might also add Bob Dylan changed MY life like

>everyone else's.)  Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg, the Beatles, Bob

>Dylan!  Quite a 1-2-3-4 punch! --Al Aronowitz

>--

>***************************************

>Al Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST

>http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj

 

Al,

 

I can't help you with your Q to Renaldol, but you should know that a fellow

(whose name I did not get) was commenting on Bob Dylan on National Public

Radio this Sunday morning and quoting from material you had written about

Dylan.

 

I have my radio set to catch the early morning news block on NPR. I doze,

but wake when something is said that rings a bell. Your name did. I caught

the end, but not the name of the speaker. Unable to get through to NPR for

a name, but I'll E-mail them and ask. Might get a reply.

 

j grant

 

                    HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

                             Details  on-line at

                                 http://www.bookzen.com

                      625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 13:01:30 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Naropa Institute

In-Reply-To:  <348AA34B.7825@midusa.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>GTL1951 wrote:

>>

>> Hey- if any members have an address or phone number for the Naropa Institute

>> out in I belive Boulder,CO i would be most grateful. Been trying to

>>track them

>> down. Thanks

>>                                         Gene

>

>its on arapahoe in boulder.  i found in by doing a web search when i

>wandered through a few months back

>

>david rhaesa

>salina, Kansas

 

David,

 

Wondering about NAROPA and NEUROPA. Are  you familiar with both? Are they

similar as far as curiculum is cponcerned?

 

j grant

 

 

                    HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

                             Details  on-line at

                                 http://www.bookzen.com

                      625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 13:35:16 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Chelsea Hotel

In-Reply-To:  <199712061732.AA02754@world.std.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>This may sound like a silly question,but here goes anyways...

>

>Have any of you ever stayed at the Chelsea?

 

Stayed there in he mid 70s. Prices, if my memory serves me, were less than

$30. Back then that was my limit for a room. Bit on the shabby side, but

cheap and central.

 

j grant

 

 

                    HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

                             Details  on-line at

                                 http://www.bookzen.com

                      625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 14:57:33 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Kindlesan <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Naropa Institute

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 97-12-07 08:35:55 EST, you write:

 

<< Hey- if any members have an address or phone number for the Naropa

Institute

 out in I belive Boulder,CO i would be most grateful. Been trying to track

them

 down. Thanks

                                         Gene >>

 

 

Naropa Institute

2130 Arapahoe Avenue

Boulder, Colorado

08302-6697

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 14:57:36 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Naropa Institute

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 08:17 AM 12/7/97 EST, Gene wrote:

>Hey- if any members have an address or phone

>number for the Naropa Institute out in I belive

>Boulder,CO i would be most grateful. Been trying to

>track them down. Thanks

 

Try:

 

http://www.naropa.edu/

 

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 15:22:24 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Ddrooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Dylan

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

In a message dated 97-12-07 14:00:50 EST, jo grant wrote:

 

<<

 I have my radio set to catch the early morning news block on NPR. I doze,

 but wake when something is said that rings a bell.  >>

 

I can't help but find this curious, the fact that you listen to NPR,

considering the fact that you have a most damning condemnation of their

coverage of someone you support at your website.

 

I sure wouldn't support a news source with my listenership if I found it so

repressive and conspiratorial. I'd boycott 'em.

 

Maybe this an example of yin and yang and I just don't get it?

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 16:03:33 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: dylan

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

"dear tom

 

have i ever told you that i

think your name ought to be

bill.  it doesn't really matter

of course, but you know, i like

to be comfortable around people.

how is margy? or martha? or

whatever the hell her name is?

listen: when you arrive & you

hear somebody yelling "willy" it'll

be me that's who. . . so c'mon.  there'll

be a car and party waiting.  it'll

be very easy to single me out, so

dont say you didnt know I was there.

                                        gratefully

                                        truman peyote"

 

>from _Tarantula_ by Bob Dylan

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 15:08:08 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Dylan

In-Reply-To:  <b43319e2.348b0582@aol.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>In a message dated 97-12-07 14:00:50 EST, jo grant wrote:

>

><<

> I have my radio set to catch the early morning news block on NPR. I doze,

> but wake when something is said that rings a bell.  >>

>

>I can't help but find this curious, the fact that you listen to NPR,

>considering the fact that you have a most damning condemnation of their

>coverage of someone you support at your website.

>

>I sure wouldn't support a news source with my listenership if I found it so

>repressive and conspiratorial. I'd boycott 'em.

>

>Maybe this an example of yin and yang and I just don't get it?

 

 

De Rooy,

 

I think you just don't get it.

 

I've got serious problems with every network, most politicians, every

industry--auto, power and light, food processors, etc. I think the whole

Xmas thing is BS, but we have a tree, decorate, buy gifts for our children

and friends.

 

I REALLY have problems with NPR, but my defense against NPR, and all of the

above, (who hid behind a multitude of masks) is not to become a Maginot

Line. I don't like having the "news" stacked selectively. They all do it.

NPR less than the rest.

 

Maybe I don't get it either.

 

The other day I approached a group of people demonstrating in front of a

store that sold furs. I pointed out to them that I thought it odd they were

opposed to people selling furs but were wearing leather shoes. One of them

said, "There's a big difference between shoes and furs."

 

Like I said, "Maybe I don't get it either."

 

 

j grant

 

 

                    HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

                             Details  on-line at

                                 http://www.bookzen.com

                      625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 16:16:10 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      dylan and art objext

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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Ddrooy wrote:

 a news source with my listenership if I found it so

> repressive and conspiratorial. I'd boycott 'em.

>

> Maybe this an example of yin and yang and I just don't get it?

 

hi

while it is somewhat interesting to get such a example of tone in

language, this may be one of the interesting but not exactly beat that

might be backchanneled. Unless of course it isn't a question for the

individual but a political stance.  Sometime i don't get politics as

immediately as others.  If you wish to explain any thing political to me

on this, please feel free to backchannel me.

         I have been creating an art objext, interpreting the mighty and strong

political arguments that have gotten through to me.  Oh by the way my

web page is going to become better, i hope. So two weeks obit on the

present version.

http://www.sunflower.com/~pelliott/pictures.html

 

It is now a crude rough layout of a scattering of photos.  I plan to

change it to scattered photos and scanned pages of the city moon,  This

material is copyrighted to Roger Martin and David Ohle.

        I have so much enjoyed revisiting the various websites that this list

has bestowed on me. I just took a brief trip around the world.  I truely

wish to thank you all.

my address ( for those servers who are not as easily accesssed)

pelliott@sunflower.com

p

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:51:12 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Naropa Institute

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

Thank you very much!

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 20:04:35 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         CIRCULATION <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Harry Smith article

 

I got to know Harry Smith fairly well when he was living with Allen G. In the

morning I would sit at Allen's kitchen table and catalog his latest batch of

cassette and video recordings. Sooner or later, Harry would stumble to the

table and fix himself a bowl of cornflakes and eat them, the milk dribbling

down his chin. He was slow to start but usually had some fascinating story

about Charlie Parker or Thelonius Monk. I always wanted to take Harry's picture

but he would never let me, claiming the camera would steal his soul.

 

getting used to Harry's style of speach took sometime. He was slow to speak and

had long lapeses. This was not helped by Julius Orlovsky, who was staying, I

think, in Peter's apartment next door. Julius was speaking at the time, but

S-l-o-w-l-y, and sometimes Harry and Julius would be in a silent battle trying

to remember the same word at the same time.

 

I miss Harry, he was a gentle, unassuming, soft spoken genuis.

 

Dave B.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 22:18:12 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      Back tt the Future II

Comments: To: Hey Joe <hey-joe@gartholamew.com>, "jjw-l@io.com" <jjw-l@io.com>,

          Johnny Winter <jwinter@sicel-home-2-19.urbanet.ch>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Hey, is there a Back to the Future fan out there who knows whether of

not this is true.  If so, it is weird.  I mean, I know that I just got

through watching the X-Files and all, but this is really different if it

is true.  Kinda cool idea, maybe urban myth?

 

> << HEY PEOPLE, this is really interesting you must read on, as it is true.

> kinda makes ya go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

>

>

>        If any of you remember the movie "Back to the Future II" you

>     will recall that Bif goes to the future and steals a Sports Almanac, where

> in

>    turn he  goes back to the past to give it to young Bif.  As we all know

> Young Bif

>     was  able to become very wealthy by betting on games where he already knew

>     the  final score.

>

>       In an obscure line you hear young Bif say "Florida is going to

>     win the  World Series in 1997, yeah right"

>

>        This movie came out in 1987, ten years before the Marlins did

>     actually  win the  world series.  And what's really weird is that Florida

> didn't

>     even have a baseball team in 1987.

>

 

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 21:31:13 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Lynn Taylor <tlt0004@JOVE.ACS.UNT.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Back tt the Future II

Comments: To: "jjw-l@io.com" <jjw-l@io.com>

Comments: cc: Hey Joe <hey-joe@gartholamew.com>,

          Johnny Winter <jwinter@sicel-home-2-19.urbanet.ch>

In-Reply-To:  <348B66F4.7FDD5749@scsn.net>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

 

> Hey, is there a Back to the Future fan out there who knows whether of

> not this is true.  If so, it is weird.  I mean, I know that I just got

> through watching the X-Files and all, but this is really different if it

> is true.

 

Well we were just discussing this at work and one of the proffessors that

I work for is a big Back to the Future Fan and confirmed that it was true

Makes ya kinda wonder?

Tyson

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 20:11:54 -0800

Reply-To:     MICHAEL_ROGERS@bc.sympatico.ca

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Rogers <MICHAEL_ROGERS@BC.SYMPATICO.CA>

Subject:      Re: Back tt the Future II

Comments: To: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@scsn.net>

Comments: cc: Hey Joe <hey-joe@gartholamew.com>, "jjw-l@io.com" <jjw-l@io.com>,

          Johnny Winter <jwinter@sicel-home-2-19.urbanet.ch>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Kind of makes the hair on the back of your neck stand on end.

 

Does anyone know if Bif said anything about whether or not the Vancouver

Canucks would win the Stanley cup in 1998.

 

Mike

http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/michael_rogers/

 

 

 

 

 

 

R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

>

> Hey, is there a Back to the Future fan out there who knows whether of

> not this is true.  If so, it is weird.  I mean, I know that I just got

> through watching the X-Files and all, but this is really different if it

> is true.  Kinda cool idea, maybe urban myth?

>

> > << HEY PEOPLE, this is really interesting you must read on, as it is true.

> > kinda makes ya go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

> >

> >

> >        If any of you remember the movie "Back to the Future II" you

> >     will recall that Bif goes to the future and steals a Sports Almanac,

 where

> > in

> >    turn he  goes back to the past to give it to young Bif.  As we all know

> > Young Bif

> >     was  able to become very wealthy by betting on games where he already

 knew

> >     the  final score.

> >

> >       In an obscure line you hear young Bif say "Florida is going to

> >     win the  World Series in 1997, yeah right"

> >

> >        This movie came out in 1987, ten years before the Marlins did

> >     actually  win the  world series.  And what's really weird is that

 Florida

> > didn't

> >     even have a baseball team in 1987.

> >

>

> --

>

> Peace,

>

> Bentz

> bocelts@scsn.net

> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 8 Dec 1997 01:07:52 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Harry Smith article

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Hi Dave,

 

        It was terrific to read your description of sitting talking with

Harry Smith. Wold he ahve known other of the Beats besides Ginsberg - and

even Ginsberg himself - during the '40s and '50s given his involvement with

some of the bebop players?  Tell us some more stories!

 

        I'm listening to volume 1-b now....Furry Lewis's great two part

Kassie Jones (Casey Jones); Down on Penny's farm up next....precursor to

Dylan's "Maggie's Farm" after lots of twists and turns.

 

        Thanks Dave.

 

                Antoine

 

 

 

 

>I got to know Harry Smith fairly well when he was living with Allen G. In the

>morning I would sit at Allen's kitchen table and catalog his latest batch of

>cassette and video recordings. Sooner or later, Harry would stumble to the

>table and fix himself a bowl of cornflakes and eat them, the milk dribbling

>down his chin. He was slow to start but usually had some fascinating story

>about Charlie Parker or Thelonius Monk. I always wanted to take Harry's picture

>but he would never let me, claiming the camera would steal his soul.

>

>getting used to Harry's style of speach took sometime. He was slow to speak and

>had long lapeses. This was not helped by Julius Orlovsky, who was staying, I

>think, in Peter's apartment next door. Julius was speaking at the time, but

>S-l-o-w-l-y, and sometimes Harry and Julius would be in a silent battle trying

>to remember the same word at the same time.

>

>I miss Harry, he was a gentle, unassuming, soft spoken genuis.

>

>Dave B.

>

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never

cease to be amused."

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 7 Dec 1997 22:36:12 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Colin Hartridge <colinh@WIMSEY.COM>

Subject:      Re: Back to the Future II (no Jimi)

Comments: To: MICHAEL_ROGERS@bc.sympatico.ca, "R. Bentz Kirby"

          <bocelts@scsn.net>

Comments: cc: Hey Joe <hey-joe@gartholamew.com>, "jjw-l@io.com" <jjw-l@io.com>,

          Johnny Winter <jwinter@sicel-home-2-19.urbanet.ch>

In-Reply-To:  <348B738A.3D4C@bc.sympatico.ca>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 8:11 PM -0800 12/7/97, Michael Rogers wrote:

 

>Does anyone know if Bif said anything about whether or not the Vancouver

>Canucks would win the Stanley cup in 1998.

 

Now they've got Keenan as coach, anything's possible. Messy, eh? (in-joke

there)

 

Keep on rockin',

Colin

 

NP: MUTANT MONSTER BEACH PARTY -- "Do the Clam" / Hodge Podge Barrage From

Japan

 

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Colin Hartridge (Captain Maniac) |  Vancouver, B.C. Canada

colinh@wimsey.com                |  "Past the outskirts of infinity"

_________________________________________________________________________

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 8 Dec 1997 10:33:13 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      found a quote (was Re: Dylan)

In-Reply-To:  <348A8EAE.7FAA@bigmagic.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 06.55 07/12/97 -0500, Al Aronowitz  wrote:

>CARO RINALDO:  Please, can you tell me what is the source of that

>statement: "Bob Dylan says that OTR changed my life like everyone

>else's."  (To which I might also add Bob Dylan changed MY life like

>everyone else's.)  Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg, the Beatles, Bob

>Dylan!  Quite a 1-2-3-4 punch! --Al Aronowitz

>--

>***************************************

>Al Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST

>http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj

>

 

caro Al, buona giornata, (good day)

 

first source:

i remember the Dylan's OTR proposition was quoted by

poet Ron Whitehead as a tribute to the 40th

anniversary of Jack's masterpiece 1th printed.

by the way

what happened to Ron? why he do not come back

to beat-L he left a year ago?

 

second source:

Steve Turner's book titled

"Angelheaded Hipster. A life of Jack Kerouac"

have a dedication to Bob Dylan (the quote on the

back of summary page).

i hope this help,

un caro saluto a tutti,

Rinaldo.

* "some real hot things in the Bible"--- jack kerouac *

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 8 Dec 1997 09:17:10 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Brian Peterson <peterson@EZNET.NET>

Subject:      Re: Jim Morrison/beat influence

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

In Eduardo Lipschutz-Villa's book "Suppport the Revolution", dedicated

to the work of Wallace Berman there is an interview with Michael

McClure. In the interview Michael mentions that he advised Jim to

self-publish his poems as he and Shelley had done and then to give them

to friends to hear their reactions, as Berman had done. McClure believes

he must have shown him some copies of Wallace's "Semina" because the

first secret editions of his poetry, "The Lords" and "The New Creatures"

where published in such a way that they look like Wallace might have

done them.

Brian

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 8 Dec 1997 11:57:11 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Re: Wallace Berman

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Brian,

 

        Regarding the book "Support the Revolution", could you tell me how

much of it deals with Wallace Berman and his art and printing? Are you

reading it or already read it?

 

        Thanks very much.

 

        Antoine

 

        ******************

Brian Peterson wrote....

 

>In Eduardo Lipschutz-Villa's book "Suppport the Revolution", dedicated

>to the work of Wallace Berman there is an interview with Michael

>McClure. In the interview Michael mentions that he advised Jim to

>self-publish his poems as he and Shelley had done and then to give them

>to friends to hear their reactions, as Berman had done. McClure believes

>he must have shown him some copies of Wallace's "Semina" because the

>first secret editions of his poetry, "The Lords" and "The New Creatures"

>where published in such a way that they look like Wallace might have

>done them.

>Brian

>

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never

cease to be amused."

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 8 Dec 1997 12:54:19 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         CIRCULATION <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Harry Smith article

 

I forgot to mention that Harry Smith is mentioned in the new Greil Marcus book,

INVISIBLE REPUBLIC (I think that's the title). Though I have not read it, I

have heard good things about it. BTW the book focuses mostly on Dylan and the

band, it will really make you want to listen to the Basement Tapes again, or

for the first time, depending (again, so I'm told).

 

I've liked most of Marcus' other books though his writing style takes a little

getting used to. Sorry if this has been brought up already, I sometimes lose

chunks of my e-mail due to this wacky vax system at work which fritzs out

everytime a squirrel jumps on the power lines.

 

Dave B.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:33:23 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Brian Peterson <peterson@EZNET.NET>

Subject:      Re: Wallace Berman

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Antoine ,

The book "Support the Revolution" deals entirely with Wallace and his

art-all 181 pages and approx. 200 illustrations. I picked up my copy at

The Whitney Museum during the Beat Art Exhibition they had a few years

ago. Yes, I've read it-several times, Wallace is one of my favorite

artists. The book is published by the Institute of Contemporary

Art/Amsterdam. Can't remember how much it cost-it doesn't say on the

jacket. There are articles by David Meltzer, Walter Hopps, Charles

Brittin, Christopher Knight, Wallys' son Tosh, and others.

Brian

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:50:42 -0500

Reply-To:     blackj@bigmagic.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Al Aronowitz <blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>

Subject:      Re: Wallace Berman

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Brian Peterson wrote:

>

> Antoine ,

> The book "Support the Revolution" deals entirely with Wallace and his

> art-all 181 pages and approx. 200 illustrations. I picked up my copy at

> The Whitney Museum during the Beat Art Exhibition they had a few years

> ago. Yes, I've read it-several times, Wallace is one of my favorite

> artists. The book is published by the Institute of Contemporary

> Art/Amsterdam. Can't remember how much it cost-it doesn't say on the

> jacket. There are articles by David Meltzer, Walter Hopps, Charles

> Brittin, Christopher Knight, Wallys' son Tosh, and others.

> Brian

Wally Berman was a friend of mine.  If I can't buy a copy of the book

about him which you refer to, can I obtain a photocopy? --Al Aronowitz

--

***************************************

Al Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST

http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 8 Dec 1997 14:07:37 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: Back tt the Future II

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

>Well we were just discussing this at work and one of the proffessors

>that

>I work for is a big Back to the Future Fan and confirmed that it was

>true

>Makes ya kinda wonder?

>Tyson

 

     oh god! NO!!!!  someone with my name!!  i though i was safe from

this.... i guess i'll have to make sure my i.d. is known in my

messages...

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 8 Dec 1997 16:04:25 -0500

Reply-To:     blackj@bigmagic.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Al Aronowitz <blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>

Subject:      Re: Beat fad?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Howard Park wrote:

>

> Fad in the 50's.

>

> Trend in the 60's.

>

> Old news in the 70's.

>

> Rediscovered in the 80's.

>

> Classic in the 90's.

>

> "cannon" in the 00's?

>

> Howard Park

How about if they spelled it "canon?" --Al

--

***************************************

Al Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST

http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 8 Dec 1997 16:50:58 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      arugghhhh

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> like being tongue-tied,

> no thing to contribute.

>

> so much to resend to

> too little time

> too many burnt syanpses

> at least for today

>

> marvels appear on my screen

> pierce me to the heart,

> heart demands anesthetic

> wine qualifies

>

> too much wine

> too much beauty

> too much angst

>

> too much alone.

>

> would rather take a dive into the now

> freezing winoosi river

> than admit the above

>

> in 'real life'

> how can it be so possible

> here,

>

> perhaps,

> because this is my

> well lighted place

> where monsters can roam

> and others recongize

> them for what the are:

> name

> catogorize

>

> takes the sting

> the fear away

> by the simple

> naming of the fears.

>

> sorry all. it's a bad day

> this is the best i could

> do to explain the pit in

> which i find myself.

>

> brandon, you write yr own poem

> for yr own love

> that is what is most imp0rtant

> about the wheel barrow in the rain.

>

> that it is yours, has meaning, and

> transcends the gap between

> me and you

> you and she

> us and all humanity.

>

> mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 8 Dec 1997 16:47:45 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: arugghhhh

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Marie Countryman wrote:

>

> > like being tongue-tied,

> > no thing to contribute.

> >

> > so much to resend to

> > too little time

> > too many burnt syanpses

> > at least for today

> >

> > marvels appear on my screen

> > pierce me to the heart,

> > heart demands anesthetic

> > wine qualifies

> >

> > too much wine

> > too much beauty

> > too much angst

> >

> > too much alone.

> >

> > would rather take a dive into the now

> > freezing winoosi river

> > than admit the above

> >

> > in 'real life'

> > how can it be so possible

> > here,

> >

> > perhaps,

> > because this is my

> > well lighted place

> > where monsters can roam

> > and others recongize

> > them for what the are:

> > name

> > catogorize

> >

> > takes the sting

> > the fear away

> > by the simple

> > naming of the fears.

> >

> > sorry all. it's a bad day

> > this is the best i could

> > do to explain the pit in

> > which i find myself.

> >

> > brandon, you write yr own poem

> > for yr own love

> > that is what is most imp0rtant

> > about the wheel barrow in the rain.

> >

> > that it is yours, has meaning, and

> > transcends the gap between

> > me and you

> > you and she

> > us and all humanity.

> >

> > mc

 

so glad to read the wonderful words that remind me everyone has days

like that.  hope yours ain't too deep a drop.  we'll all catch ya when

you're falling.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:30:04 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      long lost beat

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

hello friends,

 just wanted to say hi and i'm back. i needed some time off for reflection,

but i missed you all so much. so, i decided to dive back in. a quick hello to

marie, david, sherri, leon and all the rest. i'm happy to be back. can't wait

to hear the latest threads. take care.

~~Marlene

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:00:32 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Laurie Hutchinson <laurel555@YAHOO.COM>

Subject:      Japhy Rhyder

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

 

I'd like to hear some of your thoughts on Japhy Ryder (SP?) in the

Dharma Bums.  I've read zillions of reviews and criticisms of

Kerouac's "major" works, but I've never run across any discussion of

him.  He's always been one of my favorites...Laurel

 

 

 

_________________________________________________________

DO YOU YAHOO!?

Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:14:48 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Kaddish

In-Reply-To:  <19971208230032.1235.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Today, I bought a very old copy of Kaddish from those guys that sell books

in front of Bobst Library on Washington Square South. I was very happy but

also bummed that I couldnt also buy Dharma Bums, which was also being sold

and then I realized that I already have Dharma Bums, so I wasnt bummed

anymore! :)

~Nancy

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:29:26 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Japhy Rhyder

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

Hey- what can you say about Gary Snyder(Japhy Ryder)? He is probably one of

the most brilliant minds in a living being today.

                             GT

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:49:42 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         GTL1951 <GTL1951@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Kaddish

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

Nancy- Kaddish is such an amazing poem. I cant believe I hated it when I first

tried to read it at 17- read it two months ago and flipped!

                                       GT

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:10:52 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Kaddish

In-Reply-To:  <92417401.348c9fb6@aol.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Ive never read the whole thing through before because its just too sad for

me, not the actual poem itself but the thought of losing my mother, to

whom I am extremely attached, makes me very very sad.

~Nancy

 

On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, GTL1951 wrote:

 

> Nancy- Kaddish is such an amazing poem. I cant believe I hated it when I first

> tried to read it at 17- read it two months ago and flipped!

>                                        GT

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:20:05 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: Japhy Rhyder

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

I'd like to hear some of your thoughts on Japhy Ryder (SP?) in the

>Dharma Bums.  I've read zillions of reviews and criticisms of

>Kerouac's "major" works, but I've never run across any discussion of

>him.  He's always been one of my favorites...Laurel

 

     hey jive cat, Japhy be Gary Snyder...

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:25:01 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sad enigma <Sadenigma@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Jim Morrison/beat influence

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

 

didn't jim also say in an interview before  he believed in a long prolonged

absence of the sences to reach the unknown (or somthing like that, my memory

isn't too good at doing it's job)  and didn't ginsberg  or lucien carr  say

that first?

 

 

 

        chad

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:34:52 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      road advice SF

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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>so glad to read the wonderful words that remind me everyone has days

>like that.  hope yours ain't too deep a drop.  we'll all catch ya when

>you're falling.

 

     speaking of being caught while falling, I think I've settled on

the decision to abandon my current lifestyle which i am utterly sick of

and take to the road out west, being a middle class college student is

no place for me or my writing, and so i ask anyone on the west coast to

offer any info they can on living in the bay area... any place in

particular out there i should hit as soon as i arrive? i'm talking

survival now, not tourism, if you can help me keep the beat alive and

real in our time when everything is against it, offer your wisdom and

advice.  it seems san francisco is a good place to start.  anyone wanna

join me?  Anyone live in SF that has great firsthand knowledge of where

to live cheaply?  any help would be appreciated.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:04:36 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Maggie Gerrity <u2ginsberg@YAHOO.COM>

Subject:      Kaddish

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

 

  After three months and one day of intense research and long hours of

work, I've finally finished my Allen Ginsberg anthology. Yahoo!!

Special thanks to Levi Asher and Al Aronowitz for having such great

information about AG on the web. Their sites were bookmarked and

referred to quite often during my many hours of research.

  I did some research about Kaddish for my anthology, since my thesis

was illustrating how Ginsberg was a robust lover, a wise teacher, and

an inquisitive mortal questioning death 'round every turn. I learned a

lot about the state of mind AG was in when he wrote Kaddish. He wrote

it in two days straight, under the influence of amphetamine injections

and morphine.  He used the drugs so that he could approach the whole

topic from a more metaphysical point of view.

  While Kaddish is not my favorite AG poem, I do believe it is one of

the greatest epic-length poems of this century.

  During my research, I also came across a great AG quote in a book

called "Big Sky Mind: Buddhism and the Beat Generation" (ed. Carole

Tonkinson; Riverhead Books, 1995-great book!), from a lecture called

"First Thought, Best Thought," which he gave at Naropa Institute in

1974:

  "So really you have to make a resolution just to write for yourself,

in the sense of no bullshit to impress others, not writing poetry to

impress yourself, but just writing what your self is saying."

  Ginsberg offers advice to budding writers such as myself from beyond

the grave...gives you something to think about.

          Maggie

 

 

 

 

_________________________________________________________

DO YOU YAHOO!?

Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:35:21 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: road advice SF

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Tyson Ouellette wrote:

>

> >so glad to read the wonderful words that remind me everyone has days

> >like that.  hope yours ain't too deep a drop.  we'll all catch ya when

> >you're falling.

>

>      speaking of being caught while falling, I think I've settled on

> the decision to abandon my current lifestyle which i am utterly sick of

> and take to the road out west, being a middle class college student is

> no place for me or my writing, and so i ask anyone on the west coast to

> offer any info they can on living in the bay area... any place in

> particular out there i should hit as soon as i arrive? i'm talking

> survival now, not tourism, if you can help me keep the beat alive and

> real in our time when everything is against it, offer your wisdom and

> advice.  it seems san francisco is a good place to start.  anyone wanna

> join me?  Anyone live in SF that has great firsthand knowledge of where

> to live cheaply?  any help would be appreciated.

 

opportunities to be in school are a mixture of time and space. soemtimes

it is boring and tedious but my advice, stay in school, maybe take more

hours, finish.

p

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:55:19 +0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Yan Feng <yfeng@PUBLIC1.TPT.TJ.CN>

Subject:      Re: road advice SF

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----------

Tyson Ouellette Wrote:

 

>

> >so glad to read the wonderful words that remind me everyone has days

> >like that.  hope yours ain't too deep a drop.  we'll all catch ya when

> >you're falling.

>

>      speaking of being caught while falling, I think I've settled on

> the decision to abandon my current lifestyle which i am utterly sick of

> and take to the road out west, being a middle class college student is

> no place for me or my writing, and so i ask anyone on the west coast to

> offer any info they can on living in the bay area... any place in

> particular out there i should hit as soon as i arrive? i'm talking

> survival now, not tourism, if you can help me keep the beat alive and

> real in our time when everything is against it, offer your wisdom and

> advice.  it seems san francisco is a good place to start.  anyone wanna

> join me?  Anyone live in SF that has great firsthand knowledge of where

> to live cheaply?  any help would be appreciated.

>

Tyson, I am in simliar state as yours. But I can't decide to abandon all.

We are just so young that we stay in college.

We are just too young to stay in college.

Good luck to you.

 

Yan

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 02:26:59 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         VegasDaddy <VegasDaddy@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: road advice SF

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Hey man - Sounds like it's hit you, the great inevitable truth of being a

writer (as I take it you are)...you aint gonna git no inspiration in school,

matter of fact none of your great writing will be done in school (a-la Keats,

Shelley, Steinbeck, even Kerouac).  Take me, I hit the books out in Palo Alto

CA but born and raised in NYC, am a poet but had to drop school for three

months to push the pen in any sort of a meaningful way.  I'm goin back, but

I'm damn glad I got away from the sonumbitch they call college for a while

anyway.

Go West, bro, it rocks out there.  Try the Tenderloin for living

cheap...they'll tell you it's dangerous but it's nothing to sweat, nothing too

terrible.  Or try your hand at Berkeley, maybe sublet a studio out there (hell

them's my plans for the end of the month).  I managed to survive for four

months in Berkeley with just a few dollars and a couple local friends, also

wrote mad mouthfuls of poetry...the Bay Area is great for the artist.

And maybe hit school again in a year, when you're twice the man and ten times

the writer as anyone on campus.

Screw the machine, don't think twice just head out there.

 

Immortal goat,

ring your good bell.

With God's ear loaned

I eavesdrop near.

Ring!  bright crier,

the Vast to hear.

 

Gregory Corso, the Herald

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 02:32:19 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         VegasDaddy <VegasDaddy@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Jim Morrison/beat influence

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I think Rimbaud said that stuff about absence from the senses first.

 

AC

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 03:11:25 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RoadSide6 <RoadSide6@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: Jim Morrison/beat influence

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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In a message dated 97-12-09 03:07:58 EST, you write:

 

<<

 I think Rimbaud said that stuff about absence from the senses first.

 

 AC

  >>

 

And I do believe our man Arthur got his idea about "prolonged derangement of

the senses" from one William Blake, if memory serves...

 

LD

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 04:39:33 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         GYENIS <GYENIS@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Take me to the Chelsea

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In a message dated 97-12-07 00:08:35 EST, you write:

 

<<

 Have any of you ever stayed at the Chelsea?

  >>

 

Actually I have, and I think it was around 150 bucks a night (I think it

depends on whether they like you or not) but it was great. There is definitely

an ambience there. I was there during one of the Kerouac events at New York

University, so I felt a double thrill. It was neat going to listen to the

conference, and then going back to the Chelsea to hang out. Its worth it just

to sit in the lobby and watch the tide come in and out. The people at the

front desk have been there along time and if inclined might tell you a story.

They do have newspaper clipping on the wall that talks about the history as

well. The neighborhood is interesting as well.

 

check it out and enjoy,

Attila

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 04:39:33 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         GYENIS <GYENIS@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Looking for articles on Kerouac for DHARMA beat

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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Hello,

 

DHARMA beat, a Jack Kerouac newszine, is looking for articles about Kerouac

and related. Next issue is due out in March. If you have an article that you

would be of interest, please contact me with details  GYENIS@aol.com

 

To review what was in previous issues, go to

<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/kerouaczin/backissues.html">

http://members.aol.com/kerouaczin/backissues.html</A>

 

or DHARMA beat's home page at

<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/kerouaczin/dharmabeat.html">

http://members.aol.com/kerouaczin/dharmabeat.html</A>

 

or a page of Kerouac and beat links at

<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/kerouaczin/links.html">

http://members.aol.com/kerouaczin/links.html</A>

 

thanks and enjoy, Attila

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:20:48 +1000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         John Pullicino <jjpull@PAC.COM.AU>

Subject:      Re: zazu peels

In-Reply-To:  <199712060331.WAA06318@ionline.net>

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'listen to this bit..........' - jimi hendrix

 

          while majordomos shine their caps)

rome duskens statues yawn

withered cats are at it

noiseless between the bones

of noseless martyrs

in caves where vatsayana

out of flashbulbs

holds his scented breath ....

 

                and madmen pardon sins)

eli eli, william burroughs sleeps now

on the cross between two wigless judges,

lama sabacthani ? =

 

'S.P.Q.R.' the minstrels sing

and squeeze into his spine =

 

a full syringe of vinegar =

 

'wave to the grave while william bleeds,

nothing goes round but rosary beads

and all rogues need to roam'

 

           minerva sets her velvet traps)

countrymen i give you here =

 

three sweet and painted ladies

the women of the roman proverb

your friends and mine let's hear it =

 

for the bearers of the velvet thigh

and soft machine =

 

Yiss Yess Yass are come

to weave the night into a thousand

tuneless violins

                and tunes her violins)

 

 

=A9jjpullicino 1997

-- =

 

bye for now,

john p

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 10:09:56 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: road advice SF

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>Go West, bro, it rocks out there.  Try the Tenderloin for living

>cheap...they'll tell you it's dangerous but it's nothing to sweat,

>nothing too

>terrible.  Or try your hand at Berkeley, maybe sublet a studio out

>there (hell

>them's my plans for the end of the month).

 

     thanks, will look into that... also noticed in my research that

lower haight area is a cheap popular place for young folks..

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 10:19:43 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: road advice SF

MIME-Version: 1.0

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>Tyson, I am in simliar state as yours. But I can't decide to abandon

>all.

>We are just so young that we stay in college.

>We are just too young to stay in college.

>Good luck to you.

 

     mmm, i agree.... i guess abandonment isn't an issue for me because

i've longed to do it for a while, escape my material possessions and

live very simply for a while... only way to find out if it's right is

to try it i guess.  i was actually contemplating the move about a year

and a half ago... didn't happen.  i think it's largely due to the fact

that in 1997 we're predisposed to rooting ourselves in one place, that

security and stability are the creed of modern life.  it kills me

really when i talk to so many people that want to do this but don't,

that are so unhappy following the path of the norm..i think it'll take

a cultural change to instill many people with the confidence they need

to take aternatives.. it's scary, thrilling and advnturesome, yes, but

scary when all you've known is a stable life in the norm of society...

complacency is really an epidemic among  american college-aged folks...

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 10:28:57 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         M84M79 <M84M79@AOL.COM>

Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Subject:      Re: road advice SF

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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In a message dated 97-12-09 01:30:00 EST, you write:

 

<< Tyson, I am in simliar state as yours. But I can't decide to abandon all.

 We are just so young that we stay in college.

 We are just too young to stay in college.

 Good luck to you.

 

 Yan >>

 

tyson,

actually, i'm in the same situation. i just dropped school for the semester. i

was looking for some road trips. i'd love to come with you. but i'm torn, i do

agree with patricia. you should be in school sometime. hell, so should i once

i get a grasp on what the heck i'm doing with my life. trust me i know how you

feel. as for writing, its all in the perspective. i think experience and

setting are important, but its all how you look at it. i try to find something

new everyday. its the only way i survive in my suburban town. good luck to

you, man. i wish you the best.

~~marlene

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:05:07 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>

Subject:      The Beat Movement Was A Failure

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

This is the title of a column recently published in our school newspaper

here.  If anyone needs to be made irrate, here is the URL for it --

http://www.csil.appstate.edu/moron.htm.  I'm the webmaster, so that's why

its named moron, because the author is such an incredible one.  By late

today, it will have been moved to [http://www.csil.appstate.edu/

archives/97-12-04/moron.htm].

 

My response to this (too long to be printed as a letter, so run as a guest

column) will be printed today and be at [http://www.csil.appstate.edu/

beat.htm] by later tonight.

 

Everyone is welcome to reply to both.  It doesn't dignify taking up

bandwidth by being posted.  The paper's address is at the bottom of each

page (theapp@appstate.edu).  I welcome everyone to mail bomb to their

hearts content.  Its not a very good article, even without its point of

view; but still a slap in the face to some of the most influential writers

of this century.

 

------------------

Alex Howard  (704)264-8259                    Appalachian State University

kh14586@am.appstate.edu                       P.O. Box 12149

http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586             Boone, NC  28608

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:28:30 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Eric Lytle <e.lytle@CED.UTAH.EDU>

Subject:      Re: road advice SF

MIME-Version: 1.0

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> complacency is really an epidemic among  american college-aged

> folks...

 

    Complacency is an epidemic among american folks.  It only gets worse

after college-age.  That's probably why you feel a bit alienated.  Be

glad that you're not among the complacent.  Be glad that you're in

america where you don't have to be like everybody else.

    I felt like jumping ship before graduation,  but stuck it out.  It

did change things a bit.  Two years later,  I did the trip,  the move,

no friends,  no job,  and have fully enjoyed it.  I feel that I was a

little better prepared,  but that's probably just an excuse for my own

benefit.  Either way,  things will work out in your favor,  if you want

them too.

 

Good Luck.  Keep us posted,  if possible.

 

-E

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:49:28 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Comments:     Resent-From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM>

Comments:     Originally-From: "L-Soft list server at The City University of NY

              (1.8c)" <LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

 

To:           William Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

 

 

 

----------------------------Original message----------------------------

Your  message is  being returned  to you  unprocessed because  it looks  like a

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Date:         Tue, 09 Dec 97 15:26:01 EST

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM>

Subject:      Leaving the List

To:           beat-l@CUNYVM

 

 

New listmembers frequently ask for instructions on how to unsubscribe.

To do so, send mail to listserve@cunyvm.cuny.edu.  (DO NOT send mail to

beat-l.)  Leave the subject line blank.  In the body of your mail, type

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wxgbc@cunyvm.cuny.edu.    Bill Gargan, listowner.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:07:52 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Kaddish

In-Reply-To:  <19971209040436.2495.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Maggie,

Is this for publication? If so, go to http://www.bookzen.com and enter the

basic information so I can get it on-line in our Free Book Information

Library.

Sounds like a winner.

j grant

 

 

>  After three months and one day of intense research and long hours of

>work, I've finally finished my Allen Ginsberg anthology. Yahoo!!

>Special thanks to Levi Asher and Al Aronowitz for having such great

>information about AG on the web. Their sites were bookmarked and

>referred to quite often during my many hours of research.

>  I did some research about Kaddish for my anthology, since my thesis

>was illustrating how Ginsberg was a robust lover, a wise teacher, and

>an inquisitive mortal questioning death 'round every turn. I learned a

>lot about the state of mind AG was in when he wrote Kaddish. He wrote

>it in two days straight, under the influence of amphetamine injections

>and morphine.  He used the drugs so that he could approach the whole

>topic from a more metaphysical point of view.

>  While Kaddish is not my favorite AG poem, I do believe it is one of

>the greatest epic-length poems of this century.

>  During my research, I also came across a great AG quote in a book

>called "Big Sky Mind: Buddhism and the Beat Generation" (ed. Carole

>Tonkinson; Riverhead Books, 1995-great book!), from a lecture called

>"First Thought, Best Thought," which he gave at Naropa Institute in

>1974:

>  "So really you have to make a resolution just to write for yourself,

>in the sense of no bullshit to impress others, not writing poetry to

>impress yourself, but just writing what your self is saying."

>  Ginsberg offers advice to budding writers such as myself from beyond

>the grave...gives you something to think about.

>          Maggie

>

>

>

>

>_________________________________________________________

>DO YOU YAHOO!?

>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

 

 

                    HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

                             Details  on-line at

                                 http://www.bookzen.com

                      625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

 

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:07:32 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Stone on Kerouac

 

Wonder what others might think of Robert Stone's article on Kerouac in last Sun

day's book review....no flames, please.  After all, this list prides itself on

reasoned discourse.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:53:39 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Stone on Kerouac

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 04:07 PM 12/9/97 EST, you wrote:

>Wonder what others might think of Robert Stone's article on Kerouac in last Sun

>day's book review....no flames, please.  After all, this list prides itself on

>reasoned discourse.

>

>

 

What last sunday book review?  The NY Times?

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:01:30 -0500

Reply-To:     "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>

Subject:      Re: road advice SF

 

Reply to message from VegasDaddy@AOL.COM of Tue, 09 Dec

>

>Hey man - Sounds like it's hit you, the great inevitable truth of being a

>writer (as I take it you are)...you aint gonna git no inspiration in school,

>matter of fact none of your great writing will be done in school (a-la Keats,

>Shelley, Steinbeck, even Kerouac).  Take me, I hit the books out in Palo Alto

>CA but born and raised in NYC, am a poet but had to drop school for three

>months to push the pen in any sort of a meaningful way.  I'm goin back, but

>I'm damn glad I got away from the sonumbitch they call college for a while

>anyway.

 

Funny...I think the best story I ever wrote was inspired by my college

years (I have no other real opinions of it, though, because I don't know

what to _do_ with it now...)  If it hadn't been for my college

surroundings I wouldn't have found my inspiration.  God knows that cleaning

hotel rooms isn't helping me any with my writing.

 

But hey...to each their own.  Good luck with your decision--(I can't

remember whose dilemma this was in the first place).

 

Diane.

 

 

--

"This is Beat.  Live your lives out?  Naw, _love_ your lives out!"

                                                        --Jack Kerouac

Diane Marie Homza

ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:08:48 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: Stone on Kerouac

In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:53:39 -0800 from

              <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

 

On Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:53:39 -0800 Timothy K. Gallaher said:

>At 04:07 PM 12/9/97 EST, you wrote:

>>Wonder what others might think of Robert Stone's article on Kerouac in last

>Sun

>>day's book review....no flames, please.  After all, this list prides itself on

>>reasoned discourse.

>>

>>

>

>What last sunday book review?  The NY Times?

 

 Yes, the New York Times.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:15:54 -0800

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From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Stone on Kerouac

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At 05:08 PM 12/9/97 EST, you wrote:

>On Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:53:39 -0800 Timothy K. Gallaher said:

>>At 04:07 PM 12/9/97 EST, you wrote:

>>>Wonder what others might think of Robert Stone's article on Kerouac in last

>>Sun

>>>day's book review....no flames, please.  After all, this list prides

itself on

>>>reasoned discourse.

>>>

>>>

>>

>>What last sunday book review?  The NY Times?

>

> Yes, the New York Times.

>

>

 

Thanks for replying so quick.  I found it at their site

 

url is http://www.nytimes.com/books/97/12/07/reviews/971207.07stonet.html

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Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:27:27 -0500

Reply-To:     blackj@bigmagic.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Al Aronowitz <blackj@BIGMAGIC.COM>

Subject:      Re: Stone on Kerouac

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CTimothy K. Gallaher wrote:

>

> At 05:08 PM 12/9/97 EST, you wrote:

> >On Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:53:39 -0800 Timothy K. Gallaher said:

> >>At 04:07 PM 12/9/97 EST, you wrote:

> >>>Wonder what others might think of Robert Stone's article on Kerouac in last

> >>Sun

> >>>day's book review....no flames, please.  After all, this list prides

> itself on

> >>>reasoned discourse.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>

> >>What last sunday book review?  The NY Times?

> >

> > Yes, the New York Times.

> >

> >

>

> Thanks for replying so quick.  I found it at their site

>

> url is http://www.nytimes.com/books/97/12/07/reviews/971207.07stonet.html

Can somebody put it on list so I can read it? I gave away my book

section.--Al

--

***************************************

Al Aronowitz THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST

http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj

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Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:08:12 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From:         Maggie Gerrity <u2ginsberg@YAHOO.COM>

Subject:      Ginsberg Anthology

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Jo,

  Thanks for your inquiry about my Ginsberg anthology, but, for now,

at least, it's just a massive project for my Honors Composition class.

My prof has suggested that I seek publication, but right now I'm just

glad I have the silly thing finished!!

          Maggie

 

 

 

 

_________________________________________________________

DO YOU YAHOO!?

Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:28:31 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Stone on Kerouac

Comments: To: blackj@bigmagic.com

In-Reply-To:  <348DC5CF.7186@bigmagic.com>

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Al,

If you extend the number of characters you'll avoid the long-short-long

lines. Or, do as I do and doenload to a word doc.

Hope you're well.

Was unable to find the name of the person comenting on Dylan and mentioning

your columns as source.

j grant

 

The following is copyrighted by the nEW yORK tIMES. Bringing you "All the

news that's pit to frint."

 

 

        December 7, 1997

 

            American Dreamers: Melville and Kerouac

 

            By ROBERT STONE

 

THE BEAT GOES ON

A New York Times retrospective on Jack Kerouac

 

            In the autumn of 1957 I was 19 years old, in the Navy and also

more or less permanently in

             the grip of romantic adolescent impulses. That year, I rashly

volunteered to serve with the

             last of the Byrd expeditions to the Antarctic continent aboard

the U.S.S. Arneb. The Arneb

            would depart New England in December for the bases Adm. Richard

E. Byrd had established at

            Little America on McMurdo Sound in Antarctica. It would then

proceed to circumnavigate the

            globe, steaming outside the shipping lanes and tracking solar

storms.

 

            Byrd would not be coming with us. He had died in February. But

the operations were closely

            associated with him and with his schoolboy-hero mystique. The

last of the explorers, he actually

            ''discovered'' places and named them -- Marie Byrd Land, for

example, and Mount Edsel Ford,

            its overmastering peak. In the tank towns and tenements from

which the 50's Navy was

            recruited, his career evoked the essence of exotic adventure.

 

            In the autumn of 1957 I was 19 years old, in the Navy and also

more or less permanently in the

            grip of romantic adolescent impulses. That year, I rashly

volunteered to serve with the last of the

            Byrd expeditions to the Antarctic continent aboard the U.S.S.

Arneb. The Arneb would depart

            New England in December for the bases Adm. Richard E. Byrd had

established at Little America

            on McMurdo Sound in Antarctica. It would then proceed to

circumnavigate the globe, steaming

            outside the shipping lanes and tracking solar storms.

 

            Byrd would not be coming with us. He had died in February. But

the operations were closely

            associated with him and with his schoolboy-hero mystique. The

last of the explorers, he actually

            ''discovered'' places and named them -- Marie Byrd Land, for

example, and Mount Edsel Ford,

            its overmastering peak. In the tank towns and tenements from

which the 50's Navy was

            recruited, his career evoked the essence of exotic adventure.

 

            The journey would take almost a year. After Thanksgiving, the

volunteer crew began gathering

            at the Seabee base in Davisville, R.I. Among them were many

bookish high-school dropouts like

            me, along with protocomputer-nerd technicians attracted by the

state-of-the-art detecting devices

            provided by the University of Chicago to monitor cosmic rays.

 

            Like the Pequod from Nantucket, the Arneb departed the

ice-edged New England shore at

            Christmastime with its complement of largely juvenile

adventurers. ''Yet now, federated along

            one keel, what a set these Isolatoes were,'' a 19th-century

American novelist might have written

            of us as well. They ''blindly plunged like fate into the lone

Atlantic!'' he might have said. In

            other words, I had found the ideal circumstances to read

''Moby-Dick,'' at just the right age.

 

            I had a second novel along, one considerably less bulky, that

my mother had sent me. My mother

            was a free but tormented spirit, an ex-teacher who shuttled

between single-room-occupancy

            hotels and hospitals. She'd picked it up somewhere, and thought

I'd like to have a look at it. It

            was by a young author, one I'd never heard of. The author was

Jack Kerouac and the novel was

            ''On the Road.''

 

            I read the Melville first. Across the southern ocean, far from

customary skies, I would lie in my

            rack each night with a pen flashlight, a force 11-plus gale

screaming above decks, listening to the

            groaning of seams and the squealing of lockers as the ship

rolled to starboard, the lockers

            creaking, creaking, creaking, threatening to go over. At each

roll, the ship favored its congenital

            list, easing farther and farther toward that soft starboard

side -- maybe herself capsizing -- while

            my hair stood on end at Ahab's rant when his first mate, the

godly Quaker Starbuck, accuses him

            of blasphemy for wanting to take it all out on a dumb whale:

''All visible objects, man, are but as

            pasteboard masks. But in each event -- in the living act, the

undoubted deed -- there, some

            unknown but still reasoning thing puts forth the moldings of

its features from behind the

            unreasoning mask. . . .That inscrutable thing is chiefly what I

hate; and be the white whale agent

            or be the white whale principal, I will wreak that hate upon

him. Talk not to me of blasphemy,

            man; I'd strike the sun if it insulted me.''

 

            Then I would look up into the dark compartment, because we

really had been listing to starboard

            for the longest time and I had to wonder if we ever would

right, and then, slowly, the big tub

            would find its level and begin to creak back upright toward the

best it could manage by way of

            an even keel.

 

            ''Who's over me?'' the mad captain demanded of his reasonable,

humane No. 1. ''Truth hath no

            confines.''

 

            So during gunnery practice when I found myself with frozen

fingers clinging to the ladder of a

            sight mounting at 53 degrees south latitude while the ship

fought its way, decks awash, through

            the swells -- I could compare my condition to Tashtego's as he

lashed down the Pequod's

            main-topsail yard amid thunder and lightning.

 

            Then, somewhere between Montevideo and the Carolina Capes, with

the Pequod settled deep

            beneath the Japan Ground, I picked up Kerouac's novel. After

the months of half-light, the

            rolling ship and the blank horizon, ''On the Road'' floored me.

Aboard the Arneb, life was a

            trancelike state. Each day, by design, was exactly like another

except for the weather, the pattern

            interrupted only by drunken hallucinatory liberties in places,

with people one would never see

            again, prostitutes and land sharks -- who receded into phantoms

of alcoholic memory. Here in

            this book with its primordially American title, by a young man

with a semipronounceable name,

            was the World, the one I'd lost at sea while youth atrophied

and my inner ear echoed with

            Ahab's hassles with ''that unknown but still reasoning thing.''

In contrast, ''On the Road'' was the

            narrative of someone I imagined as not much older than myself

and so like myself that -- he was

            me! Me, and out occupying my rightful place in the lost World,

experiencing ever new towns,

            new guilt-free sexual adventures, the pleasures of wonderful

friends and jazz and art and

            bohemia.

 

            I had a few bohemian pretensions myself, you understand. I

could rejoice in the knowledge that I

            was certainly the only sailor aboard the Arneb with a

girlfriend at the High School of Music and

            Art. But there was something else about the narrator, Sal

Paradise, that made me identify with

            him, something in the sad undertone of the novel that is

finally its core. That narrator was

            forever in search of American authenticity and it was forever

somewhere else. He, like me, came

            from a place that seemed distressingly inauthentic. For him as

for me, the road to America

            suggested a transcendent journey toward an ineffable reality

that was somehow our lost

            birthright. The road to Opelousas, the road to Ogallala, the

road to Truckee. Hence we must

            hasten, the book seemed to say in that darker key, to find

ourselves no more authentic, no more

            at home. Because of its youthful enthusiasm, and my own, I was

not so aware then of that

            heartbreaking subtext in ''On the Road.'' Of course its

components would years later bring the

            author, who brought so much wild promise to so many, into the

nightmare heart of his own

            interior darkness.

 

            When I'd finished the novel I started passing it along to the

friends I'd made on the voyage, the

            underachievers and inept teen-age car thieves and feckless

younger brothers of heroes of the

            recent war. And it turned out that they too came from

hopelessly inauthentic places, they too

            dreamed of an infinity of willing, largehearted, well-read

women and parties and big-city action,

            a world of jazz and girls and reefer in which they would be

unwontedly at home and welcome.

            They too were looking for the road and they too loved Kerouac's

novel. So what dreams of high

            times to come we projected on that endless succession of

hateful, gorgeous sunsets thanks to

            Kerouac.

 

            We could not know, as the author, who was then 35, would have,

that in the endless formula we

            had already come to the Road, were already on it, that many of

us would come to look back on

            our oceanic wanderings as the most of freedom and authenticity

we would ever know.

 

            It never occurred to me, then or since, that ''On the Road''

was a great book. I had just finished

            ''Moby-Dick.'' For all the bright fantasies it invited, there

was really nothing much in ''On the

            Road'' to ponder, to obsess over and argue about in the grave

adolescent atmosphere of our

            nightly bull sessions. The book had very little humor. On the

contrary, it had an earnestness that

            seemed a little much even to a pack of wised-up rubes like

ourselves, the crew of the Arneb.

 

            Yet that earnestness never seemed to bring the reader any

closer to the touch of redemption

            through insight that finally justifies fiction. Its characters

were thin and their relationship with

            one another consisted of unvarying admiration and affection.

Situations where everybody is

            smart, hip and beautiful are much more satisfactory in life

than in novels. It did not seem to

            offer the shock of recognition of the tragedy we all suspected

lay at the core of things, which

            even the sentimentality of Thomas Wolfe, plainly Kerouac's

model, provided. Even then, it

            seemed that when the author approached the layers of art or the

emptiness of Buddha-hood there

            was a naive posturing about the writing that made it seem a

trifle ignorant, a self-conscious

            appropriation of high culture to ultimately trivial purpose.

 

            But of course we loved the invocations of popular culture in

the book, since they occupied so

            much of our imaginations -- comic strips, B movies, all that.

And it was fun to think of George

            Shearing as God, in whose guise he briefly appears in ''On the

Road,'' although by 1957 and

            1958 he had really stopped being God and become a fairly

conventional jazz pianist.

 

            The overwhelming gratifying element in ''On the Road'' for its

contemporary readers was the

            dream, the promise of life more abundant available to the young

American adventurer, the

            intrepid traveler. Thirty or so years before, ''The Sun Also

Rises'' had offered similar dreams,

            though it made them appear more difficult of access. ''The Sun

Also Rises'' was a better book, of

            course, and it seems wiser, though that may be only because

Hemingway was tougher and meaner

            and more realistic about people than Kerouac.

 

            Years later, after our respective periods working in Vietnam, I

had a conversation with Michael

            Herr, the author of the great war memoir ''Dispatches.''

''There are two kinds of things guys

            like us do,'' Michael said to me. ''The things we do because we

read Jack Kerouac and the things

            we do because we read Hemingway.''

 

            As it once promised the future, ''On the Road'' now evokes the

past, pre-Interstate America, the

            diners serving slabs of ice cream and fresh pie, the simple

cowboys singing songs of pretty girls

            ''sweet sixteen,'' the stars growing larger as Sal Paradise's

ride takes him out on the High Plains.

            And if one thing works in a sound writerly fashion in it,

that's the portrayal of Neal Cassady.

            The rendering of Cassady is so vivid that for years, trying to

say nice things about Kerouac's

            novel, people who had read the book and knew Cassady would

assure one another of the

            exactitude of that portrait.

 

            Little did I suspect, out on the ocean, that in fewer than 10

years I, along with various other

            marginal characters, would be sharing an abandoned Purina

factory on the Mexican coast with

            the divine Cassady himself. By then a muscled-up, Popeye the

Sailor-like motormouth speed

            loon, Cassady would be roaming the place with his capsules and

a hypodermic full of LSD,

            eternally engaged in his private project of slipping

psychedelics into his fellow inmates' food or

            drink.

 

            When a number of us tried to elude him by buying a piglet and

roasting it, Cassady ambushed us

            by injecting the squealing porker in vivo with about 10,000

micrograms of Owsley acid, upon

            which I died some kind of literary death to emerge in Book

Hell. Book Hell is the place where

            you are compelled to wander for days, hour after garrulous

hour, utterly whacked out, in the

            company of larger-than-life characters you once thought

charming from pretty good novels you

            once sort of enjoyed, while they tell you absolutely everything

else about themselves.

 

            And little did I suspect that a major critic of the period,

Gerald Nicosia, would decades later

            write:

 

            ''Both trail and superhighway, 'On the Road' led from

'Moby-Dick' . . . into the 21st century --

            from outer to inner space. Ahab in 'Moby-Dick' searched for the

purveyors of cosmic evil. . . .

            By contrast, the heroes of 'On the Road,' Dean Moriarty (Neal)

and Sal Paradise (Jack), no

            matter how far they travel in the external world, are

ceaselessly penetrating deeper into their

            own souls. They are constantly aware that their travel, by the

excitement and curiosity it

            generates, is a means to understanding themselves. Travel to

them is a conscious philosophical

            method by which they test the store of hand-me-down truisms.

Moreover, as a potent imaginative

            symbol, travel is a philosopher's stone that turns every

experience into a spiritual lesson.''

 

            I wish I could agree. This is an excerpt from ''On the Road,''

a section so typical the publishers

            of this year's 40th-anniversary edition (Viking, $24.95) have

reproduced it on the back cover:

 

            ''So in America when the sun goes down and I sit on the old

broken-down river pier watching

            the long, long skies over New Jersey and sense all that raw

land that rolls in one unbelievable

            huge bulge over to the West Coast, and all that road going, all

the people dreaming in the

            immensity of it, and in Iowa I know by now the children must be

crying in the land where they

            let children cry, and tonight the stars'll be out, and don't

you know that God is Pooh Bear? the

            evening star must be drooping and shedding her sparkler dims on

the prairie, which is just

            before the coming of complete night that blesses the earth,

darkens all rivers, cups the peaks and

            folds the final shore in, and nobody, nobody knows what's going

to happen to anybody besides

            the forlorn rags of growing old, I think of Dean Moriarty, I

even think of Old Dean Moriarty

            the father we never found, I think of Dean Moriarty.''

 

            Let's say that the reader must provide a good half of the

genuine sentiment here from his own or

            other sources. And the same, I think, is true throughout ''Some

of the Dharma'' (Viking,

            $32.95), a previously unpublished collection of Kerouac's

Buddhist musings put out to mark the

            occasion of the anniversary of ''On the Road.'' But let us,

Kerouac's survivors, remember how

            much the work from which all this comes moved so many young

people, and also remember how

            cruel, how brutal and heartless most of the mainstream media

were to Jack Kerouac and his

            work during his lifetime. How in ridiculing his unarmored,

vulnerable prose they broke his too

            tender heart and helped destroy him.

 

            People once said that Jack Kerouac's name would be remembered

when those of his

            contemporaries are forgotten. They may well be right, and for

filial and patriotic reasons I say

            let it be so. But, on the whole, I think ''On the Road'' was

more Mom's kind of book than mine.

                                --30--

 

            <i>Robert Stone, Rosencrantz Writer in Residence at Yale

University, is the author, most recently,

            of ''Bear and His Daughter.'' His new novel, ''Damascus Gate,''

will be published in the spring.</i>

 

                    HELP RECOVER THE MEMORY BABE ARCHIVES

                             Details  on-line at

                                 http://www.bookzen.com

                      625,506 Visitors  07-01-96 to 11-28-97

 

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Date:         Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:35:48 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Ginsberg Anthology

In-Reply-To:  <19971209230812.20989.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com>

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>Jo,

>  Thanks for your inquiry about my Ginsberg anthology, but, for now,

>at least, it's just a massive project for my Honors Composition class.

>My prof has suggested that I seek publication, but right now I'm just

>glad I have the silly thing finished!!

>          Maggie

 

Maggie,

 

Just wondering. Should I designed a form so a person, like yourself, with a

finished writing project and probably considerable research, can enter the

details of the paper in case a publisher is interested?  In case a fellow

writer wants to ask questions? In case a reporter, working on a story,

might want to talk to you?

 

what do you think?

 

jo

 



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