=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 18:03:49 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Cecco Angiolieri an Ancient Beat.

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Eric Craig Sapp wrote:

>

> hi rinaldo,

> could you maybe post an english translation of this poem.

>

> from,

> Eric

>

> On Thu, 13 Nov 1997 23:15:36 +0100 Rinaldo Rasa

> <rinaldo@GPNET.IT> wrote:

>

> > cari amici,

> > Cecco Angiolieri born in Siena (near Florence) in 1260,

> > was an italian poet, he was involved in brawls and

> > lawsuit for don't do the military service. He was a

> > friend to Dante Alighieri.

> > His feeling is't picaresque but a mix of spleen and joy,

> > Lawrence Ferlighetti appreciates Angiolieri's poetry.

> >

> > Now i post a poem by Cecco Angiolieri dated at end of the 1200s'

> >

> > *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

> >         La mia malinconia               by Cecco Angiolieri

> >

> >         La mia malinconia e' tanta e tale,

> >         ch'e' non discredo che, s'egli 'l sapesse

> >         un che mi fosse nemico mortale,

> >         che di me di pietade non piangesse

> >

> >         Quella, per cu' m'avven, poco ne cale;

> >         che mi parebbe, sed ella volesse

> >         guarir'n un punto di tutto tutto 'l mie male

> >         sed ella pur: - I' t'odio - mi dicesse

> >

> >         Ma quest'e' la risposta c'ho da lei;

> >         e ched'i vad'a far li fatti miei;

> >         ch'ella non cura s'i' ho gi'oi' o pene

> >         men ch'una paglia che le va tra' piei:

> >         mal grado h'abbi Amor, ch'a le' mi diene.

> >

> > *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

> >

> > un saluto a tutti,

> > Rinaldo.

 

hi rinaldo,

 

so good to see your name on my computer screen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 19:10:13 +0000

Reply-To:     randyr@southeast.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Comments:     Authenticated sender is <randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>

From:         randy royal <randyr@MAILHUB.JAXNET.COM>

Subject:      Re: GAN

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Hello Attila and alll,

> When I read Kerouac, I want to write.

>

> When I read Vonnegut, I want to read.

>

true true. never read on the road if you can't drive.

 

> But the best book for me is

> Confederacy of Dunces by John Kennedy Toole.

> A#1

yes, it is a wonderful book, but definetly not the Great American

Novel. Perhaps the Great New Orleans Novel. if anyone wants a real

funny book and/or ever lived in New Orleans (preferably thirty odd

years ago) this is the book for you. no higher praise can  be given

for a book of this stature.

 

>

> so it goes, Attila

>

Randall

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 03:22:03 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Shani St.John" <lawlaw1@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      FW: LECTURE SERIES

 

----------

Sent:   Tuesday, November 11, 1997 9:42 PM

To:     'Beat-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU'

Subject:        LECTURE SERIES

 

I'm sponsoring a lecture series on the beats.  it will feature (if I can get

them) Gary Snyder, Larry Ferlinghetti, and Gerald Nicosia Snyder.  What do you

guys think about these choices.  Have you heard any of these writers

speak(besides Snyder)?

 

Thanks!!!!!!

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 19:49:05 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Ferlinghetti recording

 

A while back someone asked about recordings of Ferlinghetti reading "A

Coney Island of the Mind."  Going through some spoken word records in my

collection this evening I came across an album called "San Francisco

Poets" on the Evergreen label.  It includes an excerpt from Coney Island

of the Mind and a poem called "Dog" by Ferlinghetti.  Also featured are

Brother Antoninus, Kenneth Rexroth, Robert Duncan, Michael McClure,

Philip Whalen, Allen Ginsberg, James Broughton, Josephine Miles, and

Jack Spicer.  Sorry if this information was already posted.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 19:55:50 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: star wars and Kerouac?

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>its a shame that Kerouac didn't live to see star wars. Before  you all

>accuse me of being shallow, think about this: star wars is an epic film

>of

>imagination, a modern myth using ideas from classic literature. There's

>a

>book out right now that compares the star wars genre to myth. Would the

>beats "dig" such cinematic attempts?

 

     I think that jack's view on sci-fi was that it was an attempt to

renew the vitality of literature without making progressions is

writing... i remember reading something to that effect.  what he

would've thought of the movie i don't know for sure, obviously.  star

wars is a classic regardless, because it has everything, i use it often

as a comparison in lit classes, much to instructors' distress... i

think that jack might have appreciated the grandioseness of it, but may

have classified it as rehash.. hard to say.. considering how

ever-changing jack was, it's hard to say what he would've been like in

'77, except for the sincere core of his being.

     Makes me wonder how his still being alive today would've affected

his popularity... i also wonder if he would've continued to make new

progressions in writing or if he would've stuck with what he'd

achieved... again, hard to say... it's pretty pointless in wondering, i

don't think jack was meant to live to a ripe old age..

despite his domestic desires.  a lot like jesus christ, especially his

portrayal in last temp. of christ... reminds me of jack's life.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 20:07:45 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M .Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Re: star wars and Kerouac?

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At 01:57 PM 13/11/97 -0500, jason wrote:

>its a shame that Kerouac didn't live to see star wars.

>Before  you all accuse me of being shallow, think

>about this: star wars is an epic film of imagination,

>a modern myth using ideas from classic literature.

>There's a book out right now that compares the

>star wars genre to myth. Would the

>beats "dig" such cinematic attempts?

 

Luke Skywalker and Buddha have a lot in common.

Guatanama Sakyamumi had been protected by his

father from the knowledge of age, sickness, death, etc.

And LS was protected by his uncle from the knowledge

of his father, the *force*, etc.  And as all young people do,

they both rebelled and looked for other experiences.

In the end, when they were ready, they both gained the

"force," or "enlightenment."

 

I believe a good look at Joseph Campbell's _The Hero

With A Thousand Faces_ would be wise.  If I remember

correctly, he was some how connected to George Lucas

for these movies.

 

"May the force be with you!!"

Yoda (woops, I mean Mike)

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 20:08:47 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: The Great American Novel

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>What I was really wondering was if the rhythm, tempo (all the musical

>elements, etc.) are something more than just an efficient delivery

>system,

>but actually, really and truly, and independently of any merely personal

>and subjectve psychology, add to the meaning of a literary work. I think

>it's pretty obvious that it does, but how exactly, and what is the

>precise

>nature of this addition? I want something more than psychology here.

>But what could this "more" be?--

 

     most definitely.  adding to the meaning? do you mean theme? mood?

value of the work?  very simply, let's say we have a scene rapidly

progressing in time, a staccato rhythm conveys that sense, and drives

the reader furiously forward.  same as longer, more mellifluous rhythms

will often do the opposite.  more than psych?  well, if you're looking

at it from the point of view of writing, as in how you're writing,

regardless o subject matter, yes, it's essential to be conscious of it.

 how else? there are infinite subtle intricacies that some would

disagree with.. depending on your view of the reader's subconscious

mind.  repitition being a form of rhythm, take jack's commonly used

words, night, sky, stars, or colors, or the wonderful red slant light

that indicates sudden passing revelation, placed in key points

throughout a large work the mind will connect those moments because of

these recurring phenomena.  so we have an element that significantly

contributes to unification, and which aids in collapsing the work into

a more instantly perceived thing.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 20:15:45 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: The Great American Novel

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>Isn't this what opera was supposed to accomplish? It was supposed to be

>the Consummate Art precisely because it united words, music, visual arts

>(the scene design & costumes), and I suppose you could also integrate

>dance into it if you wanted. But so many people find opera intolerable!

>Maybe there's such a thing as trying to include too much and ending up

>with a clumsy dinosaur.

 

     well, when i talk about this melding i'm almost always referring

to writing; incorporating these things into the written work.  my

interest when i mention this is in pushing lit/writing further, rather

than the entire realm of art.  i also mean a combination that leaves no

visible seams.  opera is a form, an in being so is uniform as a whole,

there are standards and they are followed.  it's the same skeleton.

the point is to make a new animal.  of course you have to build on

what's come before, but that influence needs to be renounced after it's

been used as a stepping stone.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 20:18:46 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: GAN

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>  Once I was sitting on a bench in Boston Common and a crazy man

>came down the path from that Civil War memorial. He was an old man about

>fifty or sixty and the lapels of his coat were covered with celluloid

>buttons that said, "O, You Kid," "Keep Cool With Coolidge," "Cow Brand

>Soda," "The Jolly Chums Club," and things like that.

 

     i think i know this guy.  :)

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 21:06:04 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Preston Whaley <paw8670@MAILER.FSU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: beat courses

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Neil,

 

a couple of years ago I took an American Lit course and Lolita was on the

syl.  It was an upper level course and one of the exam questions asked us

to argue pro or con, for or against introducing Lolita to students of a

freshman lit course.  Probably a good question for anyone who wants to

teach the book.

 

 Does Nabokov appear on many American Lit syllabi? I

>haven't seen him listed for courses in and around my school.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 21:37:29 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Irving Leif <ileif@IX.NETCOM.COM>

Subject:      Re: Beat and Kerouac books for sale

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Plase send me this list.  Thanks!!

 

 

At 03:46 AM 11/13/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Hello,

>

>If you are interested in a short list of Kerouac and beat books for sale

>(most are collectible) please e mail me and I will send you the list.

>

>thanks

>Attila

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 23:03:39 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: beat courses

In-Reply-To:  <v01540b00b09152d890e0@[146.201.2.123]>

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I read Lolita on my own and I thought it was the best book I had read in

awhile. Of course, the movie version has been censored here in the US but

not in Europe...

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 22:00:11 -0600

Reply-To:     cawilkie@comic.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>

Subject:      ATTN: DAVID MELTZER

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Hello all:

 

I seem to recall at one time or another running across a person either

on this list or the other one i'm on by the name of David Meltzer.

David, I just wanted to let you know i picked up a copy of 'New American

Writing' that has 'from BEAT THING' in it.

 

enjoyed it much

 

cathy

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 22:15:53 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: The Great American Novel

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Tyson Ouellette wrote:

> of course you have to build on

> what's come before, but that influence needs to be renounced after it's

> been used as a stepping stone.

 

i didn't understand the need or purpose of this renunciation you

suggest.  could you expand on your notion?

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 21:51:09 -0800

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Gary - Larry - Harry Lecture Series!

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>         Does anyone actually call him Larry?...it doesn't exactly trip off

> my tongue.

 

Antoine,

 

If they were to call Mr. Ferlinghetti  "Larry" they would be reminded

that it is "Lawrence".  Not Mr. F, not Larry, Lawrence.

 

I have heard him react this way when addressed as Larry by the son of a

Beat Icon.

 

J. Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 22:02:09 -0800

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Lolita on film

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Glad to see some drums beating for V. Nabokov who in my mind is the

writer in this century who most closely resembles a genius like Mozart,

especially when you consider his ability to write marvelous Russian,

French and English.  Lolita is one of the great books of our time in my

op.

 

As I understand it the current film version is not so much censored as

having one hell of a time attracting a distributor--certainly the theme

is even harder to deal with in this PC environment than it was when the

orignial film was released and apparently the financial terms are also

unnatractive.

 

Don't forget the great version of Lolita that already is out and in

video near you.  One of my top five films of all time, I think.  Sellers

and Mason are magnificent.  Kubrick at his best.  Nabokov screenplay.

I am eager to see if the current film comes close--I do like the idea of

Jeremy Irons as Humbert.

 

J. Stauffer

Nancy B Brodsky wrote:

>

 Of course, the movie version has been censored here in the US but

> not in Europe...

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 23:13:59 -0800

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      [Fwd: Re: Lolita]

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Mike,

 

Yes it's odd, my name seems to appear in the reply to area rather than

Beat L.  There are a few others like that, for most of you it's a list

reply.  Maybe Bill is trying to shut me up, or maybe because I have

advocated that format that is what I get!  I think Leon's is the same.

 

Hmmmmm.

 

J. Stauffer

 

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Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 02:07:14 -0500

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To: stauffer@pacbell.net

From: "M .Cakebread" <cake@ionline.net>

Subject: Re: Lolita

 

Ahh, I noticed that the auto-thingy is on and this

is going to you James - not the list.  Hmm?  If

you think anyone else would be interested in this

you can forward it to Beat-l.

 

Mike

------------------------------------------------------------------

Just perusing my copy of _Lolita_ and noticed the

prelude was by a "favorite" professor of a few of the people

mentioned here from time to time. {;^>

 

>From the Berkeley Medallion Edition, November, 1966

 

                                        LOLITA

 

"In recent fiction no lover has thought of his beloved with

so much tenderness, no woman has been so charmingly

evoked, in such grace and delicacy, as Lolita; it is one of

the few examples of rapture in modern writing. . . .

 

I think that the real reason why Mr. Nabokov chose his

outrageous subject matter is that he wanted to write a

story about love.

 

Lolita is about love.  Perhaps I shall be better understood

if I put the statement in this form: Lolita is not about sex,

but about love.  Almost every page sets forth some explicit

erotic emotion or some overt erotic action and still is not

about sex.  It is about love.  This makes it unique in my

experience of contemporary novels. . . ."

 

Lionel Trilling

 

 

--------------790413741ACA--

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 10:14:22 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Cecco Angiolieri an Ancient Beat.

In-Reply-To:  <346B9565.6EE7@midusa.net>

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At 18.03 13/11/97 -0600, David Rhaesa wrote:

>Eric Craig Sapp wrote:

>>

>> hi rinaldo,

>> could you maybe post an english translation of this poem.

>>

>> from,

>> Eric

>>

>> On Thu, 13 Nov 1997 23:15:36 +0100 Rinaldo Rasa

>> <rinaldo@GPNET.IT> wrote:

>>

>> > cari amici,

>> > Cecco Angiolieri born in Siena (near Florence) in 1260,

>> > was an italian poet, he was involved in brawls and

>> > lawsuit for don't do the military service. He was a

>> > friend to Dante Alighieri.

>> > His feeling is't picaresque but a mix of spleen and joy,

>> > Lawrence Ferlighetti appreciates Angiolieri's poetry.

>> >

>> > Now i post a poem by Cecco Angiolieri dated at end of the 1200s'

>> >

>> > *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

>> >         La mia malinconia               by Cecco Angiolieri

>> >

>> >         La mia malinconia e' tanta e tale,

>> >         ch'e' non discredo che, s'egli 'l sapesse

>> >         un che mi fosse nemico mortale,

>> >         che di me di pietade non piangesse

>> >

>> >         Quella, per cu' m'avven, poco ne cale;

>> >         che mi parebbe, sed ella volesse

>> >         guarir'n un punto di tutto tutto 'l mie male

>> >         sed ella pur: - I' t'odio - mi dicesse

>> >

>> >         Ma quest'e' la risposta c'ho da lei;

>> >         e ched'i vad'a far li fatti miei;

>> >         ch'ella non cura s'i' ho gi'oi' o pene

>> >         men ch'una paglia che le va tra' piei:

>> >         mal grado h'abbi Amor, ch'a le' mi diene.

>> >

>> > *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

>> >

>> > un saluto a tutti,

>> > Rinaldo.

>

>hi rinaldo,

>

>so good to see your name on my computer screen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

>david rhaesa

>salina, Kansas

>

cari amici,

 

the Cecco Angiolieri poem is written in very ancient italian,

the time (XIII century) when i.e. the ego was "I" (note the italian

"I" use in the ancient italian sentence "I' t'odio"= "i hate you!",

then the use was dismissed, now of course the italian people is

less egocentric...).

 

the poem is in a bunch of poems written by Cecco Angiolieri, prolific

medieval writer .

 

well, for the poem "La mia malinconia" Cecco is in sad blue feeling,

his girlfriend parted from him. Cecco is hopeless...

 

*       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

                        My melancholy           by Cecco Angiolieri

 

                        my melancholy is deep

                        that even a my worse enemy

                        would have pity for me

 

                        but the woman

                        she doesn't care about my melancholy

                        she doesn't tell to me not even I hate!

                        If she tells me "I hate you"

                        it would cure my melancholy

 

                        but the woman

                        she tell me go away!

                        she doesn't care about my melancholy

                        she tramples on my sorrow like grass

                        under her feet.

 

*       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

 

i think it's wonderful to post the original poem by Cecco (the

poem that Lawrence Ferlinghetti mimes in ''Alla maniera di

Cecco Angiolieri'')

 

*       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

 

                S'i' fosse foco         by Cecco Angiolieri

 

                S'i' fosse foco arderei 'l mondo;

                s'i' fosse vento, lo tempesterei;

                s'i' fossi acqua i' l'annegherei;

4               s'i' fosse Dio mandereil'en profondo;

 

                s'i' fosse papa, sare' allor giocondo,

                che' tutti cristiani imbrigherei;

                s'i' fosse 'mperator, sa' che farei?

8               A tutti mozzarei lo capo a tondo.

 

                S'i' fosse morte anderei da mio padre;

                s'i' fossi vita, fuggirei da lui:

11              similmente far'ia da mi' madre.

 

*       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

translation of the above poem

by courtesy of Federica "Kikka" Ferrieri

 

 

Cecco Angiolieri                IF I WERE FIRE

----------------        --------------

 

IF I WERE FIRE, I WOULD BURN THE WORLD;

IF I WERE WIND, IWOULD STORM IT;

IF I WERE WATER, I WOULD DROWN IT;

IF I WERE GOD, I WOULD SEND IT INTO DEPTH;

 

IF I WERE THE POPE, I WOULD THEN BE HAPPY,

BECAUSE I WOULD TROUBLE ALL CHRISTIAN PEOPLE;

IF I WERE THE EMPEROR, DO YOU KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO?

I WOULD COMPLETELY DECAPITATE EVERYONE

 

IF I WERE DEATH, I WOULD GO TO MY FATHER;

IF I WERE LIFE, I WOULD ESCAPE FROM HIM:

IN THE SAME WAY I WOULD BEHAVE WITH MY MOTHER.

 

IF I WERE CECCO, AS I AM AND HAS BEEN,

I WOULD CHOSE YOUNG AND BEAUTIFUL WOMEN:

AND LEAVE THE OLD AND UGLY ONES FRO SOMEONE OTHER.

 

*       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

 

un caro saluto a tutti,

Rinaldo e "Kikka".

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 07:45:13 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Cecco Angiolieri an Ancient Beat.

MIME-Version: 1.0

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rinaldo, wonderful poems, you make us open up. i do fear you have set a

a poor example, for we are too provincial,  should you ask us for to

please post our words in italian too.

ciao

patricia

Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

>

> At 18.03 13/11/97 -0600, David Rhaesa wrote:

> >Eric Craig Sapp wrote:

> >>

> >> hi rinaldo,

> >> could you maybe post an english translation of this poem.

> >>

> >> from,

> >> Eric

> >>

> >> On Thu, 13 Nov 1997 23:15:36 +0100 Rinaldo Rasa

> >> <rinaldo@GPNET.IT> wrote:

> >>

> >> > cari amici,

> >> > Cecco Angiolieri born in Siena (near Florence) in 1260,

> >> > was an italian poet, he was involved in brawls and

> >> > lawsuit for don't do the military service. He was a

> >> > friend to Dante Alighieri.

> >> > His feeling is't picaresque but a mix of spleen and joy,

> >> > Lawrence Ferlighetti appreciates Angiolieri's poetry.

> >> >

> >> > Now i post a poem by Cecco Angiolieri dated at end of the 1200s'

> >> >

> >> > *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

> >> >         La mia malinconia               by Cecco Angiolieri

> >> >

> >> >         La mia malinconia e' tanta e tale,

> >> >         ch'e' non discredo che, s'egli 'l sapesse

> >> >         un che mi fosse nemico mortale,

> >> >         che di me di pietade non piangesse

> >> >

> >> >         Quella, per cu' m'avven, poco ne cale;

> >> >         che mi parebbe, sed ella volesse

> >> >         guarir'n un punto di tutto tutto 'l mie male

> >> >         sed ella pur: - I' t'odio - mi dicesse

> >> >

> >> >         Ma quest'e' la risposta c'ho da lei;

> >> >         e ched'i vad'a far li fatti miei;

> >> >         ch'ella non cura s'i' ho gi'oi' o pene

> >> >         men ch'una paglia che le va tra' piei:

> >> >         mal grado h'abbi Amor, ch'a le' mi diene.

> >> >

> >> > *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

> >> >

> >> > un saluto a tutti,

> >> > Rinaldo.

> >

> >hi rinaldo,

> >

> >so good to see your name on my computer screen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

> >

> >david rhaesa

> >salina, Kansas

> >

> cari amici,

>

> the Cecco Angiolieri poem is written in very ancient italian,

> the time (XIII century) when i.e. the ego was "I" (note the italian

> "I" use in the ancient italian sentence "I' t'odio"= "i hate you!",

> then the use was dismissed, now of course the italian people is

> less egocentric...).

>

> the poem is in a bunch of poems written by Cecco Angiolieri, prolific

> medieval writer .

>

> well, for the poem "La mia malinconia" Cecco is in sad blue feeling,

> his girlfriend parted from him. Cecco is hopeless...

>

> *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

  *       *

>                         My melancholy           by Cecco Angiolieri

>

>                         my melancholy is deep

>                         that even a my worse enemy

>                         would have pity for me

>

>                         but the woman

>                         she doesn't care about my melancholy

>                         she doesn't tell to me not even I hate!

>                         If she tells me "I hate you"

>                         it would cure my melancholy

>

>                         but the woman

>                         she tell me go away!

>                         she doesn't care about my melancholy

>                         she tramples on my sorrow like grass

>                         under her feet.

>

> *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

  *       *

>

> i think it's wonderful to post the original poem by Cecco (the

> poem that Lawrence Ferlinghetti mimes in ''Alla maniera di

> Cecco Angiolieri'')

>

> *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

  *       *

>

>                 S'i' fosse foco         by Cecco Angiolieri

>

>                 S'i' fosse foco arderei 'l mondo;

>                 s'i' fosse vento, lo tempesterei;

>                 s'i' fossi acqua i' l'annegherei;

> 4               s'i' fosse Dio mandereil'en profondo;

>

>                 s'i' fosse papa, sare' allor giocondo,

>                 che' tutti cristiani imbrigherei;

>                 s'i' fosse 'mperator, sa' che farei?

> 8               A tutti mozzarei lo capo a tondo.

>

>                 S'i' fosse morte anderei da mio padre;

>                 s'i' fossi vita, fuggirei da lui:

> 11              similmente far'ia da mi' madre.

>

> *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

  *       *

> translation of the above poem

> by courtesy of Federica "Kikka" Ferrieri

>

> Cecco Angiolieri                IF I WERE FIRE

> ----------------        --------------

>

> IF I WERE FIRE, I WOULD BURN THE WORLD;

> IF I WERE WIND, IWOULD STORM IT;

> IF I WERE WATER, I WOULD DROWN IT;

> IF I WERE GOD, I WOULD SEND IT INTO DEPTH;

>

> IF I WERE THE POPE, I WOULD THEN BE HAPPY,

> BECAUSE I WOULD TROUBLE ALL CHRISTIAN PEOPLE;

> IF I WERE THE EMPEROR, DO YOU KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO?

> I WOULD COMPLETELY DECAPITATE EVERYONE

>

> IF I WERE DEATH, I WOULD GO TO MY FATHER;

> IF I WERE LIFE, I WOULD ESCAPE FROM HIM:

> IN THE SAME WAY I WOULD BEHAVE WITH MY MOTHER.

>

> IF I WERE CECCO, AS I AM AND HAS BEEN,

> I WOULD CHOSE YOUNG AND BEAUTIFUL WOMEN:

> AND LEAVE THE OLD AND UGLY ONES FRO SOMEONE OTHER.

>

> *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

  *       *

>

> un caro saluto a tutti,

> Rinaldo e "Kikka".

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 08:12:48 -0600

Reply-To:     cawilkie@comic.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>

Subject:      vonnegut's answer and the x-gen

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Leon wrote:

> It is easy for elders to disrespect the younger ones. The elders who

> have aquired years of experience which is weighty but can be very very

> wrong also. Personally I think that quite possibly Vonnegut dismissed

> another young person's question, the way some of us dismiss the ways of

> the "x-generation".

 

 

 

 

Going back to the x-generation thread:

 

maybe this above statement by our own insightful leon demonstrates

exactly why gen-x (which i count myself as a member of, being one of the

grungekids) spends so much time bitching about how people don't really

understand them....it's because the elders don't wish or bother to

understand...

 

cathy

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 08:26:16 -0600

Reply-To:     cawilkie@comic.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>

Subject:      star wars and kerouac

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> Subject:

>         star wars and Kerouac?

>   Date:

>         Thu, 13 Nov 1997 13:57:43 -0500

>   From:

>         "PoOka(the friendly ghost)" <jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>

>

>

> its a shame that Kerouac didn't live to see star wars. Before  you all

> accuse me of being shallow, think about this: star wars is an epic film of

> imagination, a modern myth using ideas from classic literature. There's a

> book out right now that compares the star wars genre to myth. Would the

> beats "dig" such cinematic attempts?

>                                                         jason

 

 

 

 

think of it this way:  wasn't "The Shadow" essentially the cinema of

kerouac's childhood????  From what i understand, he had a great affinity

for that radio program.

 

cathy

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 10:20:31 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Special! Selected Letters$15.00

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I have the first issue of Selected Letters Vol. I in hardcover by Jack

Kerouac for sale. Only $15.00! There are several copies. With this, I will

include the second Kerouac Quarterly. Go to the web site for more info:

 

  http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/KerouacQuarterly.html

 

 

            Thanks, Paul. . .

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 14:34:22 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         cheryl broderick <T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK>

Subject:      Re: beat courses

Mime-Version: 1.0

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Caroline Cassady speaks to UEA this Thursday.

Huzzah!

 

Tom.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 14:43:38 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         cheryl broderick <T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK>

Subject:      Tom Finds Problems in Beat History

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I have been looking at Joan Vollmer and Bill for the background to a short

 story.

Once again, it seems that there are discrepancies (right word?) between

 different

accounts of what happened.  Does anyone know where I can get a full, and

hopefully correct version of that fatal day?  Joyce Johnson has them drinking at

home, Miles has them in a room above a bar.  Johnson has Joan suggesting the

routine, Miles (and WSB) has Bill suggesting it.  I know I've brought this up

 before,

but I'm more interested now due to it being research.

 

Tom. H.

http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759

"When the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro."

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 14:46:20 PST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         cheryl broderick <T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK>

Subject:      Joan Volllmer(-Adams) Burroughs

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While I'm on the subject, does anyone know of anything by Joan, letters,

 stories,

poems?  I think there's an archive somewhere, but it'll be in the states,

 which'll

make it difficult for me to get at, if I was even going to take it that far.

 When was

she born? (Well, really, how old was she when she died?)  Are there are other

accounts of Joan apart from WSB biographies and Minor Characters?  I suppose

there might be something in Off The Road... better go check that one.

 

Cheers,

 

Tom. H.

http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759

"When the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro."

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 10:22:23 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: GAN

In-Reply-To:  <msg1223284.thr-e9d9d91d.55d4a82@umit.maine.edu>

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>>  Once I was sitting on a bench in Boston Common and a crazy man

>>came down the path from that Civil War memorial. He was an old man about

>>fifty or sixty and the lapels of his coat were covered with celluloid

>>buttons that said, "O, You Kid," "Keep Cool With Coolidge," "Cow Brand

>>Soda," "The Jolly Chums Club," and things like that.

>

>     i think i know this guy.  :)

 

What was it that convinced you he was crazy. Being in Boston? Hanging

around the Commons? Wearing buttons?

 

What year was it?  Back in the 50's while in school in Boston, there were

times when I felt--and probably looked--50 or 60.

 

What were you wearing that day?

 

j grant

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 11:35:58 -0500

Reply-To:     mongo.bearwolf@Dartmouth.EDU

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mongo BearWolf <mongo.bearwolf@DARTMOUTH.EDU>

Organization: Dartmouth College

Subject:      Ginsberg Artwork - forwarded inquiry

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Hi folks...

 

I'm forwarding the following inquiry from a correspondent who is not on

the list.  Please reply DIRECTLY to Jay, not to me.  Thanks!

 

--Mongo

 

---------------

 

Hello,

 

I'm an art dealer in New York. I've been offered a drawing of

Allen Ginsberg, signed by Allen Ginsberg.

 

My search through various sales databases of auction results

has not yielded any of Ginsberg's art that has sold at auction.

 

Is there a private market, or dealers who specialize in his art? Was

he a painter, in addition to being a poet?  The owner of the drawing

tells me that it's a pastel painting, and it's obviously a portrait

of Ginsberg.

 

Your comments would be appreciated.

 

Thank you,

 

 

Jay Levin

finart@worldnet.att.net

 

--------------------------------------------------------

                     ...visit...

 

                   ALLEN GINSBERG:

              Shadow Changes into Bone

 

       The Clearinghouse for all things Ginsberg!

 

                 http://www.ginzy.com

--------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 12:03:53 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: GAN

MIME-Version: 1.0

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>What was it that convinced you he was crazy. Being in Boston? Hanging

>around the Commons? Wearing buttons?

 

>What year was it?  Back in the 50's while in school in Boston, there

>were

>times when I felt--and probably looked--50 or 60.

 

   no, i'm just a lad of 20, but it did remind me of a crazy in boston

i know... i know most of the prominent bums around certain sections of

boston... they're pretty cool guys..   but this guy it reminded me of

sorta looks like castro, about his age, and he wears green jacket and

pants similar to military fatigue, and he's gut a castro gut... and the

hat too, he's always arguing with someone that i can't see, but who i'm

sure is there, it's just that this guy is on a different level of

existence than i am.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 11:19:18 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: 1st & last response to Grant's attempt to start a flame war.

In-Reply-To:  <1.5.4.32.19971113183354.006a494c@pop.pipeline.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

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>I'm an ex-con?  I stole library books. Jack Kerouac stole the Buddhist

>Bible from the New York >Public Library. Huncke stole coats and Neal

>Cassady stole cars. Am I not in good company with >the subject matter?

 

On one level it appears that you are.

 

Splash.

 

j grant

 

 

                Small Press Publishers and Authors

                  Display Books Free At BookZen

                                453,989 Visitors  07-01-96 to 07-01-97

                         http://www.bookzen.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 12:10:04 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: The Great American Novel

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>i didn't understand the need or purpose of this renunciation you

>suggest.  could you expand on your notion?

 

     when i said renounced i didn't mean disregarding one's influence

in a negative manner, i meant more use the foundation but then burn it

once the house is built.  Buddhism is a good example, its very precepts

lead to its eventual renouncing, know what i mean?  or like nasa

shuttles drop their thrusters once they've achieved orbit...

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 12:14:07 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tyson Ouellette <Tyson_Ouellette@UMIT.MAINE.EDU>

Organization: University of Maine

Subject:      Re: vonnegut's answer and the x-gen

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>maybe this above statement by our own insightful leon demonstrates

>exactly why gen-x (which i count myself as a member of, being one of the

>grungekids) spends so much time bitching about how people don't really

>understand them....it's because the elders don't wish or bother to

>understand...

 

     yeah, but that's the case throughout history; parents never

understand their kids habits/culture...

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 11:21:00 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: The Great American Novel

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Tyson Ouellette wrote:

>

> >i didn't understand the need or purpose of this renunciation you

> >suggest.  could you expand on your notion?

>

>      when i said renounced i didn't mean disregarding one's influence

> in a negative manner, i meant more use the foundation but then burn it

> once the house is built.  Buddhism is a good example, its very precepts

> lead to its eventual renouncing, know what i mean?  or like nasa

> shuttles drop their thrusters once they've achieved orbit...

 

detach?

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 10:09:29 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: vonnegut's answer and the x-gen

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At 12:14 PM 11/14/97 -0500, you wrote:

>>maybe this above statement by our own insightful leon demonstrates

>>exactly why gen-x (which i count myself as a member of, being one of the

>>grungekids) spends so much time bitching about how people don't really

>>understand them....it's because the elders don't wish or bother to

>>understand...

>

>     yeah, but that's the case throughout history; parents never

>understand their kids habits/culture...

>

>

 

I think it is the opposite.  The parents understand all too well having been

there before.

 

Youngsters always think they are unique.

 

Youngsters also have more time and inclination to care about if they are

"really understood".

 

Parents understand all too well, understanding is not the problem.

 

I think a lack of trust of faith in the youngster's ability to muddle

through like the rest of humanity has done is more the crux of any friction

than a lack of understanding.  This lack of faith though is based upon the

strong understanding of the kids, so strong that there becomes and

identification and a projection and then a protectionism wherein the parent

sees the kid making all the same mistakes they made.  Thye forget they are

also learning the same things they learned and having the necessary

experiences they has as well.

 

So the parents make the same mistakes their parents made and the kids make

the same mistakes the parents made as kids.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 12:43:53 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Frances J Green <fjgst7+@PITT.EDU>

Subject:      Re: star wars and Kerouac?

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On Thu, 13 Nov 1997, RACE --- wrote:

 

>

> i finally broke down and watched them the summer before last after so

> many years of hearing about the Campbell connection (ending my quest to

> be the only living American that hadn't seen them <smile>).

>

> perhaps i need to see them again.  my first impression was that Joseph

> Campbell's spin on them the Bill Moyer's videos is better than the

> movies themselves.

>

> horribly un-American,

>

> david rhaesa

> salina, Kansas

>

 I've never seen them either - nor do I plan to - despite any vague ideas

that the Beats would've loved them. I'm upset you gave in - hopefully my

will power is stronger.

 

 

Fran Green

Pittsburgh, PA

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 12:14:55 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: vonnegut's answer and the x-gen

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Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

>

> At 12:14 PM 11/14/97 -0500, you wrote:

> >>maybe this above statement by our own insightful leon demonstrates

> >>exactly why gen-x (which i count myself as a member of, being one of the

> >>grungekids) spends so much time bitching about how people don't really

> >>understand them....it's because the elders don't wish or bother to

> >>understand...

> >

> >     yeah, but that's the case throughout history; parents never

> >understand their kids habits/culture...

> >

> >

>

> I think it is the opposite.  The parents understand all too well having been

> there before.

>

> Youngsters always think they are unique.

>

> Youngsters also have more time and inclination to care about if they are

> "really understood".

>

> Parents understand all too well, understanding is not the problem.

>

> I think a lack of trust of faith in the youngster's ability to muddle

> through like the rest of humanity has done is more the crux of any friction

> than a lack of understanding.  This lack of faith though is based upon the

> strong understanding of the kids, so strong that there becomes and

> identification and a projection and then a protectionism wherein the parent

> sees the kid making all the same mistakes they made.  Thye forget they are

> also learning the same things they learned and having the necessary

> experiences they has as well.

>

> So the parents make the same mistakes their parents made and the kids make

> the same mistakes the parents made as kids.

 

probably not limited to just "mistakes" if you mean that in a negative

sense.  if you mean "mistakes" in that being a child or parent is a

series of happy and unhappy accidents giving a double sided emotion to

the word "mistakes" then it seems to make plenty of sense.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 13:33:36 -0500

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From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: vonnegut's answer and the x-gen

In-Reply-To:  <346C951F.6280@midusa.net>

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Personally, Ive blessed with parents that do understand, whatever it is

there is to understand. I think most parents do, more than my peers care

to realize.

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 13:34:32 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Tougue in Cheek

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Just thought I'd let you all know that I got my tounge pierced this

afternoon.

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 19:45:59 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Cecco Angiolieri an Ancient Beat.

In-Reply-To:  <346C55E9.2140@sunflower.com>

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        After Dino Campana              by Lawrence Ferlinghetti

 

 

        'Song of Myself and Others'?

                                                O what a laugh that is

        When all I ever wanted

                was to voice an

                                        inchoate

                                                        elementary fury

                A spirit that frees itself

                                                        and flies

                                to the top of a tree to sing

                        in the ultimate

                                                red sunset

        O tree without birds

                                        standing mute!

 

*       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

 

cari amici,

 

Lawrence Ferlinghetti has celebrated the tuscan poetry

connected with beat poetry and it's right. Of course

there's another 2 line in italian poetry: it's the

sicily poetry and  venetian poetry. speaking of venetian

poetry (or lombard) it's more roughly and picaresque.

The tuscan poetry is more soft and better, so the root

of the italian language tuscan, sicilian and venetian,

it's better choice the tuscan language. Lawrence Ferlinghetti

wrote another poem to celebrate a tuscan poet such as

Dino Campana who was suffering during his life a heavy

mental illness and died in a mental hospital.

 

*       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

for those who like Federico Fellini's movies there's in

the movie titled "Amarcord" (1975) the mad uncle on the

top of the tree shouting "a woman! i want a woman!"

but on evening went the dwarf nun and the madman goes back

peacefully to the hospital, an unforgettable scene.

I dunno if Fellini was suggested by the above poem

"After Dino Campana" or vice versa.

 

un saluto a tutti, a good saturday to everybody,

Rinaldo.

 

*       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

At 07.45 14/11/97 -0600, Patricia Elliott wrote:

>rinaldo, wonderful poems, you make us open up. i do fear you have set a

>a poor example, for we are too provincial,  should you ask us for to

>please post our words in italian too.

>ciao

>patricia

>Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

>>

>> At 18.03 13/11/97 -0600, David Rhaesa wrote:

>> >Eric Craig Sapp wrote:

>> >>

>> >> hi rinaldo,

>> >> could you maybe post an english translation of this poem.

>> >>

>> >> from,

>> >> Eric

>> >>

>> >> On Thu, 13 Nov 1997 23:15:36 +0100 Rinaldo Rasa

>> >> <rinaldo@GPNET.IT> wrote:

>> >>

>> >> > cari amici,

>> >> > Cecco Angiolieri born in Siena (near Florence) in 1260,

>> >> > was an italian poet, he was involved in brawls and

>> >> > lawsuit for don't do the military service. He was a

>> >> > friend to Dante Alighieri.

>> >> > His feeling is't picaresque but a mix of spleen and joy,

>> >> > Lawrence Ferlighetti appreciates Angiolieri's poetry.

>> >> >

>> >> > Now i post a poem by Cecco Angiolieri dated at end of the 1200s'

>> >> >

>> >> > *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

    *

>> >> >         La mia malinconia               by Cecco Angiolieri

>> >> >

>> >> >         La mia malinconia e' tanta e tale,

>> >> >         ch'e' non discredo che, s'egli 'l sapesse

>> >> >         un che mi fosse nemico mortale,

>> >> >         che di me di pietade non piangesse

>> >> >

>> >> >         Quella, per cu' m'avven, poco ne cale;

>> >> >         che mi parebbe, sed ella volesse

>> >> >         guarir'n un punto di tutto tutto 'l mie male

>> >> >         sed ella pur: - I' t'odio - mi dicesse

>> >> >

>> >> >         Ma quest'e' la risposta c'ho da lei;

>> >> >         e ched'i vad'a far li fatti miei;

>> >> >         ch'ella non cura s'i' ho gi'oi' o pene

>> >> >         men ch'una paglia che le va tra' piei:

>> >> >         mal grado h'abbi Amor, ch'a le' mi diene.

>> >> >

>> >> > *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

    *

>> >> >

>> >> > un saluto a tutti,

>> >> > Rinaldo.

>> >

>> >hi rinaldo,

>> >

>> >so good to see your name on my computer screen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>> >

>> >david rhaesa

>> >salina, Kansas

>> >

>> cari amici,

>>

>> the Cecco Angiolieri poem is written in very ancient italian,

>> the time (XIII century) when i.e. the ego was "I" (note the italian

>> "I" use in the ancient italian sentence "I' t'odio"= "i hate you!",

>> then the use was dismissed, now of course the italian people is

>> less egocentric...).

>>

>> the poem is in a bunch of poems written by Cecco Angiolieri, prolific

>> medieval writer .

>>

>> well, for the poem "La mia malinconia" Cecco is in sad blue feeling,

>> his girlfriend parted from him. Cecco is hopeless...

>>

>> *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

>  *       *

>>                         My melancholy           by Cecco Angiolieri

>>

>>                         my melancholy is deep

>>                         that even a my worse enemy

>>                         would have pity for me

>>

>>                         but the woman

>>                         she doesn't care about my melancholy

>>                         she doesn't tell to me not even I hate!

>>                         If she tells me "I hate you"

>>                         it would cure my melancholy

>>

>>                         but the woman

>>                         she tell me go away!

>>                         she doesn't care about my melancholy

>>                         she tramples on my sorrow like grass

>>                         under her feet.

>>

>> *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

>  *       *

>>

>> i think it's wonderful to post the original poem by Cecco (the

>> poem that Lawrence Ferlinghetti mimes in ''Alla maniera di

>> Cecco Angiolieri'')

>>

>> *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

>  *       *

>>

>>                 S'i' fosse foco         by Cecco Angiolieri

>>

>>                 S'i' fosse foco arderei 'l mondo;

>>                 s'i' fosse vento, lo tempesterei;

>>                 s'i' fossi acqua i' l'annegherei;

>> 4               s'i' fosse Dio mandereil'en profondo;

>>

>>                 s'i' fosse papa, sare' allor giocondo,

>>                 che' tutti cristiani imbrigherei;

>>                 s'i' fosse 'mperator, sa' che farei?

>> 8               A tutti mozzarei lo capo a tondo.

>>

>>                 S'i' fosse morte anderei da mio padre;

>>                 s'i' fossi vita, fuggirei da lui:

>> 11              similmente far'ia da mi' madre.

>>

>> *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

>  *       *

>> translation of the above poem

>> by courtesy of Federica "Kikka" Ferrieri

>>

>> Cecco Angiolieri                IF I WERE FIRE

>> ----------------        --------------

>>

>> IF I WERE FIRE, I WOULD BURN THE WORLD;

>> IF I WERE WIND, IWOULD STORM IT;

>> IF I WERE WATER, I WOULD DROWN IT;

>> IF I WERE GOD, I WOULD SEND IT INTO DEPTH;

>>

>> IF I WERE THE POPE, I WOULD THEN BE HAPPY,

>> BECAUSE I WOULD TROUBLE ALL CHRISTIAN PEOPLE;

>> IF I WERE THE EMPEROR, DO YOU KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO?

>> I WOULD COMPLETELY DECAPITATE EVERYONE

>>

>> IF I WERE DEATH, I WOULD GO TO MY FATHER;

>> IF I WERE LIFE, I WOULD ESCAPE FROM HIM:

>> IN THE SAME WAY I WOULD BEHAVE WITH MY MOTHER.

>>

>> IF I WERE CECCO, AS I AM AND HAS BEEN,

>> I WOULD CHOSE YOUNG AND BEAUTIFUL WOMEN:

>> AND LEAVE THE OLD AND UGLY ONES FRO SOMEONE OTHER.

>>

>> *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *

>  *       *

>>

>> un caro saluto a tutti,

>> Rinaldo e "Kikka".

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 09:40:05 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Harold Rhenisch <rhenisch@WEB-TREK.NET>

Subject:      Re: vonnegut's answer and the x-gen

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I don't think too much should be made about generational divisions.

Vonnegut was always bitching, even before he grew old.

 

Harold Rhenisch

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 11:18:24 -0800

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: vonnegut's answer and the x-gen

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>From one dad to another, Hi Tim!

 

Kids will be kids and grownups will be grown ups and the ones in between

have their own problems. I agree with you Tim that parents have gone through

childhood and that kids have not yet experienced parenthood.

 

What makes nevertheless very difficult for parents to understand their

children, is the fact that the world of the parents' childhood was changed

from under them, some of it by their own adult activities, but also by many

other influences that they weren't able to keep out.

 

All too often parents are strangers to the very different world their kids

are immersed in, surrounded by, and which create new ways,  new anxieities,

new mores, new social standards, etc., etc.. Pierced body parts and purple

hair are only a couple of more extreme examples that were hard for parents

to accept. Then parents get used to it, after they start seeing it all

around themselves, but it is still very puzzling to them to understand why

anyone would ever want to do those things. A generation ago it was the same

with teenage boys letting their hair grow like girls.

 

It is the changed values, mores, defining selfhood that leaves loving

parents who were chidren themselves under a whole set of different standards

and valuations, baffled and perplexed quite often about their chidren.

 

When today's parents were growing up, they were pushing against the fences

that their parents erected to shelter them from the dangers of the larger

world out there. The holes they poked in those fences were scary to the

parents who were trying to stop them. Only partially successfully in every

generation. The new parents have erected fences around their new territory,

and are just as scared when they see their kids knocking holes, sampling new

concepts, in their lives. They don't understand the new music even too well.

 

I agree with you that kids will continue to act as kids and grownups will

continue to act as grownups. Every generation nevertheless finds new aspects

to their world that the parents are not familiar with, at least somewhat

apprehensive about, and have difficulty understanding.

 

I thought Everson's interview of Dreiser is a very goo example of the

disdain that grown ups often show for the young generation. Everson was

young, but a dedicated brilliant person whose pacifict statement alone had

was saying a lot more than his elders were willing to take responsibility

for. Dreiser the great man was certainly one of the more enlightened human

beings of those times. He had to know what the place that Everson mentioned

represented. Still, he dismissed the young generation as wannabes who have

nothing to say themselves. I have certainly seen that same attitude strongly

expressed about the youth of the x generation.

 

I agree further that we all continue to make the same mistakes. I am not

sure that we are learning enough about them, about ourselves.

 

leon

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Timothy K. Gallaher <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Friday, November 14, 1997 10:11 AM

Subject: Re: vonnegut's answer and the x-gen

 

 

>At 12:14 PM 11/14/97 -0500, you wrote:

>>>maybe this above statement by our own insightful leon demonstrates

>>>exactly why gen-x (which i count myself as a member of, being one of the

>>>grungekids) spends so much time bitching about how people don't really

>>>understand them....it's because the elders don't wish or bother to

>>>understand...

>>

>>     yeah, but that's the case throughout history; parents never

>>understand their kids habits/culture...

>>

>>

>

>I think it is the opposite.  The parents understand all too well having

been

>there before.

>

>Youngsters always think they are unique.

>

>Youngsters also have more time and inclination to care about if they are

>"really understood".

>

>Parents understand all too well, understanding is not the problem.

>

>I think a lack of trust of faith in the youngster's ability to muddle

>through like the rest of humanity has done is more the crux of any friction

>than a lack of understanding.  This lack of faith though is based upon the

>strong understanding of the kids, so strong that there becomes and

>identification and a projection and then a protectionism wherein the parent

>sees the kid making all the same mistakes they made.  Thye forget they are

>also learning the same things they learned and having the necessary

>experiences they has as well.

>

>So the parents make the same mistakes their parents made and the kids make

>the same mistakes the parents made as kids.

>.-

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 14:17:26 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Tom Finds Problems in Beat History

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intro to queer?

 

cheryl broderick wrote:

 

> I have been looking at Joan Vollmer and Bill for the background to a short

>  story.

> Once again, it seems that there are discrepancies (right word?) between

>  different

> accounts of what happened.  Does anyone know where I can get a full, and

> hopefully correct version of that fatal day?  Joyce Johnson has them drinking

 at

> home, Miles has them in a room above a bar.  Johnson has Joan suggesting the

> routine, Miles (and WSB) has Bill suggesting it.  I know I've brought this up

>  before,

> but I'm more interested now due to it being research.

>

> Tom. H.

> http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759

> "When the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro."

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 14:25:46 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marlene Giraud <M84M79@AOL.COM>

Subject:      chancing ridicule and loving it!

 

             Untitled

 

      its about to rain

      the sky is swollen

      pregnant

      as am i

      with fullness

      with desire

      i ache for the coolness

      calmness

      serenity

      silver slips on my window

      tip-tap-tip

      music

      parted lips

      i am desperate for rain

      for solitude broken

      for droplets to hang on my eyelashes

      miracles in water lapping

      tenderness in blue

      me in a full skirt

      swirling around my ankles

      i twirl on my toes

      dance in small puddles

      rain goddess

      grey poetess

      mingle tingle churn

      what communion is this!

      this wet wine flesh

      this body cold rush

      dripping hair

      blankets of mud

      rain-stain-art

      rain as birth!

      rain as life!

      as maternal caresses

      as sunken sweetness

      as reward

      as renewal

       I am strong!

      power in the elements

      currents in my skin

      i offer prayers to pagan gods

      scream with passion

      call out to the mists

      hold the wind against my breasts

      i don't need lightning

      white heat

      mockery of the sun

      i am deaf to thunder

      i open to rain like virgin clouds

      i allow myself to be taken

      washed clean

      molded  holded   felt

      i am sculpted

      i am saved

      i don't need worship or form

      prayer or solididty

      i need liguid goodness

      drip-drop    father

      Holy Rain!

      i only believe in poetry......i only believe in poetry

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 14:25:02 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      hey, let's have a wsb reading that..

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combines the letters w/the work? the combo i know the most about is

Interzone(ed. by mr. grauerholz) and the letters to ginsberg 53-57.

i may be totally whacked, but i believe that wsb was to remark that the

pieces that became interzone and naked lunch were to found in his

letters to AG.

let me know if i'm wrong

(like i need to encourage anyone, <g>

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 14:31:29 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: vonnegut's answer and the x-gen

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i grew up much more tightly bound to my generation than to my parents; i was

precocious in the sixties (as many of you know); and for reasons relating to

family traits. i had a genreation . i think that many of the punk attitudes

derived from kids like me needing to shock their parents, my peers, exhippy

parents. just a thought.

just another spin..

mc

Nancy B Brodsky wrote:

 

> Personally, Ive blessed with parents that do understand, whatever it is

> there is to understand. I think most parents do, more than my peers care

> to realize.

>

> The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

> Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 11:32:09 -0800

Reply-To:     Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: my comments on Patricia's posts

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>Hello Joe,

>

>I got nothing against you. I still enjoy the memories of your wonderful

>story from your youthful adventure. For that one alone you got my respect.

>

>I don't think you disrespect me even though I am a felonious ex-con.

>However, your attempt to explain away (that's how it strikes me) your

>initial statement , just doeasn't make it for me. Frankly, some of it I

>don't quite understand. Some of it I question. You rattle off a list of

>names of prisons and you imagine what would happen to you if you mouthed

off

>in any of  them. If you are speaking from personal observation than what

you

>have observed is quite different from what I have seen over the years.

>

>I haven't been in any of those  places you mention, but I can tell you from

>experience, not imagination, that in the maximum security facility in South

>Carolina people mouthed off to each other all the time. Same In Atlanta, El

>Paso, Terminal Island, Vacaville, San Quentin. Mouthing off was a very

>common occurence in all of those, plus others that I have done time in long

>enough to see for myself. Besides I don't see how it relates to your very

>clear statement that I responded to. In fact I could remember a small

>fraction of the ingenious, creative mouthing off explicatives that I heard

>constantly in all of these human congregations, I would would have a hot

>item for your bookshelves.

>

>I am answering to the list because that's where the question arose. I am

>suggesting now that if you feel that we should continue our discussion of

>it, we can do it backchannell.

>

>BTW, Got any other stories like that one? It would be a pleasured to read

>them if they are anywhere close to the one you shared with us.

>

>Ciao

>leon

>

>-----Original Message-----

>From: jo grant <jgrant@bookzen.com>

>To: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

>Date: Friday, November 14, 1997 9:52 AM

>Subject: Re: my comments on Patricia's posts

>

>

>>>-----Original Message-----

>>>From: Leon Tabory <letabor@cruzio.com>

>>>To: jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

>>>Date: Thursday, November 13, 1997 10:33 AM

>>>Subject: Re: Re: my comments on Patricia's posts

>>>

>>>>Hi Joe,

>>>>-----Original Message-----

>>>>From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

>>>>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>>>>Date: Thursday, November 13, 1997 9:11 AM

>>>>Subject: Re: my comments on Patricia's posts

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>>Just because a person has done a little time doesn't mean they cannot

be

>>>>>trusted. But when an excon slanders and lies about a person whose

>>>>>reputation is untarnished then that excon has to expect a little truth

>in

>>>>>return. It's something SOME excons learn to live with.

>>

>>

>>Leon,

>>

>>I did not mean for my comments to be directed at you.

>>

>>What I said (above) is true. If you've done time you know how people deal

>>with someone who makes false accusations and silly threats. You can

imagine

>>the response to that kind of "mouthing off" on the yard at Walpole,

>>Raiford, Angola, Marian, Levenworth, or any joint--other than the "country

>>clubs."

>>

>>People who haven't done time occasionally lash out at someone who has gone

>>over the edge, in the truth department, by using "convicted" to make a

>>point about a person's trustworthiness. I didn't like it when Gerry did

it,

>>but I understood why he did it. The words that provoked his response, had

>>they been said, "on the yard" could very easily have been fatal. How many

>>times have you seen someone's mouth overload their ass.

>>

>>One doesn't have to do time in maximum security to learn that, but it's

one

>>of the early lessons learned in there.

>>

>>On the outside, ex-cons learn to live with "hurtful" comments that are

>>made--for whatever reasons. It never really works.  I've found that out,

>>and it appears, you have too. My complaint with Maher has nothing to do

>>with his being found guilty of a minor crime.

>>

>>j grant

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>.-

>>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 14:33:46 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Judith Campbell <judith@BOONDOCK.COM>

Subject:      James Laughlin, Dead at 83

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

James Laughlin, Poet and  Publisher, Dead at 83

 

Associated Press 14-NOV-97

 

NORFOLK, Conn. (AP) James Laughlin, a poet and pioneering publisher who

introduced American readers to some of the best-known writers of this

century, died Wednesday of complications following a stroke. He was 83.

 

Laughlin died at his home, his family said. He was still an undergraduate

at Harvard University in 1936 when he founded New Directions with money

from his father and issued the first of the anthologies that he said were a

place "where experimentalists could test their inventions by publication."

 

His first book, "New Directions in Prose & Poetry," included  writings from

Henry Miller, Gertrude Stein, Ezra Pound, Wallace Stevens and William

Carlos Williams.

 

For more than 50 years, his anthologies showcased writers he considered

originals, among them Vladimir Nabokov, William Saroyan, Dylan Thomas,

Thomas Merton, James Agee, Delmore Schwartz, Lawrence Ferlinghetti and John

Hawkes and a host of others.

 

Laughlin's company became New Directions Publishing Corp., one of the

world's most influential book publishers.

 

 He brought the translated works of authors such as Jorge Luis Borges and

Garcia Lorca to the United States, and was Nabokov's first American

publisher.

 

A native of Pittsburgh, where his great-grandfather founded a family steel

business, Laughlin was still a teen-ager when he began getting his short

stories and poems published in small magazines.

 

Laughlin wrote several books of poetry, including "In Another Country,"

Stolen & Contaminated Poems" and "The Bird of Endless Time." At the time of

his death, he was writing his memoirs through a series of poems, his family

said.

 

 He won the National Book Foundation Medal for Distinguished Contribution

to American Letters in 1982, and the Robert Frost medal from the Poetry

Society of America in1989.

 

Survivors include his wife, Gertrude; two sons, a daughter and six

grandchildren.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 19:38:38 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: vonnegut's answer and the x-gen

 

i agree except to say that there are the occasional exceptions to the rule,

thank god.  sadly, i think the real problem is communication starting with

birth.  if parents were more straight up and honest with their children in the

first place, both parents and children would have a hell of alot more trust

between them and could venture more into the grey areas of being alive.

 

ciao, sherri

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of Tyson Ouellette

Sent:   Friday, November 14, 1997 9:14 AM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: vonnegut's answer and the x-gen

 

>maybe this above statement by our own insightful leon demonstrates

>exactly why gen-x (which i count myself as a member of, being one of the

>grungekids) spends so much time bitching about how people don't really

>understand them....it's because the elders don't wish or bother to

>understand...

 

     yeah, but that's the case throughout history; parents never

understand their kids habits/culture...

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 14:43:01 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: chancing ridicule and loving it!

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

h marlene : this conjures up for me countless dead shows, rainy ones and

one in which all rains down from heaven. however, i have a gender issue

:mother rain (sumtimes mo-fo rain). whips up the memory glands.

mc

 

Marlene Giraud wrote:

 

>              Untitled

>

>       its about to rain

>       the sky is swollen

>       pregnant

>       as am i

>       with fullness

>       with desire

>       i ache for the coolness

>       calmness

>       serenity

>       silver slips on my window

>       tip-tap-tip

>       music

>       parted lips

>       i am desperate for rain

>       for solitude broken

>       for droplets to hang on my eyelashes

>       miracles in water lapping

>       tenderness in blue

>       me in a full skirt

>       swirling around my ankles

>       i twirl on my toes

>       dance in small puddles

>       rain goddess

>       grey poetess

>       mingle tingle churn

>       what communion is this!

>       this wet wine flesh

>       this body cold rush

>       dripping hair

>       blankets of mud

>       rain-stain-art

>       rain as birth!

>       rain as life!

>       as maternal caresses

>       as sunken sweetness

>       as reward

>       as renewal

>        I am strong!

>       power in the elements

>       currents in my skin

>       i offer prayers to pagan gods

>       scream with passion

>       call out to the mists

>       hold the wind against my breasts

>       i don't need lightning

>       white heat

>       mockery of the sun

>       i am deaf to thunder

>       i open to rain like virgin clouds

>       i allow myself to be taken

>       washed clean

>       molded  holded   felt

>       i am sculpted

>       i am saved

>       i don't need worship or form

>       prayer or solididty

>       i need liguid goodness

>       drip-drop    father

>       Holy Rain!

>       i only believe in poetry......i only believe in poetry

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 14:59:29 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         First_Name Last_Name <Kindlesan@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Ginsberg Artwork - forwarded inquiry

 

does anyone know of a web page where i could download the drawings made of

allen ginsberg the day he died that were featured in tricyle magazine?

 

thanks,

brian

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 14:59:52 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Neil Hennessy <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Re: Tom Finds Problems in Beat History

In-Reply-To:  <199711141922.OAA15190@pike.sover.net>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Despite Patricia's many admonitions against Morgan's Literary Outlaw, I

believe his presentation of the events surrounding Joan's death to be

about as good as it gets when it comes to biography. You are not going to

find anything approaching the Truth (Nothing is True, Everything is

Permitted (Permuted)). He presents the accounts of several eyewitnesses,

people that were there, and they all conflict with each other in various

ways, some minor, some MAJOR. I think what you are going to find is that

you can't find a truth, but only a sort of sordid assorted stories,

various permutations of the same event. The only thing we know for sure is

William pulled the trigger, and Joan died.

 

Neil

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 15:23:45 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M .Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      The Dark Eye -WSB as character voice

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I just picked up an interesting 3-D animated, role-playing

adventure CD-ROM game that was inspired by the works of

Edgar Allen Poe.  It involves macbre plots, intrigue,

horror, etc.  Pretty cool actually.  I guess the point

I was going to make, is that WSB does the voice for

one of the main characters.  Not sure if this has

been brought up on the list yet?  But I thought someone

might like to look this up.  Not bad for $9.99!!

 

It's called _The Dark Eye_ and was put out by Inscope

multimedia.

 

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 15:54:50 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "IamAs I Be@aol.com" <IamAsIBe@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Beat and Kerouac books for sale

 

please might you be so kind to send me your beat books list?

much thnks

k

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 15:04:23 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: beat courses

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 08:36 AM 11/13/97 -0500, you wrote:

>On Thu, 13 Nov 1997, Paul A. Maher Jr. wrote:

>

>> >From the Kerouac Cd -Rom:

>

>>  And inscribed in his copy of Lolita is this:

>>

>>  What decency really is, can never be outraged- This is a great book by the

>> world's most honest and smartest living writer. JK

>

>Ahh, I agree almost completely (I'd call Burroughs the most honest). Funny

>though, I always thought Lolita paled in comparison with Bend Sinister,

>Pnin, and Pale Fire. It's just the one that produced the most controversy.

>Pnin should be required reading for any faculty or student involved in the

>university game. Does Nabokov appear on many American Lit syllabi? I

>haven't seen him listed for courses in and around my school.

>

>Neil

>

>

I'm certain he is where the literary canon is still honored.  I

was taught Lolita in 1965, is a sophomore English Lit class.

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 16:18:01 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: vonnegut's answer and the x-gen

In-Reply-To:  <199711141932.OAA18051@pike.sover.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

I cant say that anything I do shocks my parents because I had two older

sisters to pave the way for me. Even still, my dad is the kind of guy who

understands that teenagers do things (ie drinking and drugs) and in my

house, it was dont ask, dont tell. He didnt want to know anything about

our exploits and I think part of it is because by knowing, he is

parentally obligated to chasiste us in some way and we all know what a

waste of time that is...

 

 

 

On Fri, 14 Nov 1997, Marie Countryman wrote:

 

> i grew up much more tightly bound to my generation than to my parents; i was

> precocious in the sixties (as many of you know); and for reasons relating to

> family traits. i had a genreation . i think that many of the punk attitudes

> derived from kids like me needing to shock their parents, my peers, exhippy

> parents. just a thought.

> just another spin..

> mc

> Nancy B Brodsky wrote:

>

> > Personally, Ive blessed with parents that do understand, whatever it is

> > there is to understand. I think most parents do, more than my peers care

> > to realize.

> >

> > The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

> > Sure-JK

>

 

The Absence of Sound, Clear and Pure, The Silence Now Heard In Heaven For

Sure-JK

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 15:29:31 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      christmas

MIME-Version: 1.0

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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

 

--------------51D825F731AD

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

my shoice of a story is william and james coming to kansas and finding

the western land and how it came to be written.  i have always thought

it interesting about william coming back to the midwest.

 

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--------------51D825F731AD--

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 16:22:47 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Greatest Novels ...

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 09:31 PM 11/11/97 -0500, you wrote:

>In a message dated 97-11-11 17:31:07 EST, you write:

>

><< I think Selby is incredibly under-appreciated. I think he's a master. >>

>Hubert Selby is a monster writer and should be discussed on this list more

>often.  I heartily agree with your selections, Glenn, but I'm curious as to

>why you left off Last Exit to Brooklyn.  Isn't it as least as good as The

>Demon and The Room?

>

>

Did Selby have other books besides Last Exit?  I read this one just a few

years ago and thought there was more understanding of sexuality in all its

disguises, in the book, than in any other I have read before or since.  It

has an understanding of homosexuality in it that I have not seen equalled

in any other novel, since.

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 16:23:01 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: great american novel

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 09:12 AM 11/12/97 -0400, you wrote:

>This list is fascinating  and growing fatter, healthier. Wondering if

>anyone has read and likes/hates/indifferent to E.L. Doctorow?  A few

>titles: Daniel, Ragtime, Loon Lake, Worlds Fair, Billy Bathgate, The

>Waterworks.  To me, his books evince poignant, lyrical, encyclopedic,

>historical, American, tragic voice like no other.

>

>Preston

>

>

I hated Ragtime because it seemed to read and drag like history.  It

seemed portentous, and I was put off by that.  I read Loon Lake after

that and like its aping of the style of Raymond Chandler, among others.

I sort of gave up on Doctorow, but I haven't forgotten him.  He seems

a master of other people's styles.

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 16:23:03 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: method and meaning

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 09:11 PM 11/10/97 -0500, you wrote:

>>>

>>Plot is not all that matters. Faulkner told the whole plot of the novel,

>Absalom, Absalom by the end of the first chapter. What he did was fashion

>each chapter after the first by restating the various "truths" of each

>character about what happened with Sutpen. Shreve wants to know from Quentin

>Compson what the 'South" was like...each character has a different take on

>this but it is the structuring of the novel that makes it what it is and not

>the plot. Plot is a vehicle for expression, not necessarily linear or

>non-linear so much as it gives the writer a place to hang his hat.

>"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

>                                           Henry David Thoreau

>

>

I read Absalom, Absalom and don't recall the entire plot being

show in the first chapter.  I read the first 100 pages twice.

It was a terrible book to read, with everyone rehashing the

same stuff over and over, and then adding one more fact to the

accumulated plot.

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 16:22:33 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: star wars and Kerouac?

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

This is an interesting thread.  I saw the Campbell

TV shows, but only liked the first two, the ones where

Campbell identifies the universal meanings of many

symbols.  Only on rerelease did I learn about Lucas

writing the Campbell symbols into Star Wars.  I have

never heard anywhere else that he hired Campbell as

an advisor on the movie. I certainly agree the Moyer's

films on Campbell were more interesting to me than

Star Wars.

 

A friend of mine has a load of Campbell lectures on

audiotape which he keeps promising to lend me.  Then

he doesn't come through.  He told me the Campbell

lectures are better than the Campbell books. I have

read none of the Campbell books.  Does someone else

have another opionion?

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 16:22:36 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Tougue in Cheek

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 01:34 PM 11/14/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Just thought I'd let you all know that I got my tounge pierced this

>afternoon.

>

 

 

Its very sad.  Do you think you can get the procedure reversed?

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 22:25:26 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Joan Volllmer(-Adams) Burroughs

 

also try "Women of the Beat Generation" by Brenda Knight.  Joan's dates are

1924 - 1951.  i haven't read the section yet, but it should prove helpful.

 

ciao, sherri

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of cheryl broderick

Sent:   Friday, November 14, 1997 2:46 PM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Joan Volllmer(-Adams) Burroughs

 

While I'm on the subject, does anyone know of anything by Joan, letters,

 stories,

poems?  I think there's an archive somewhere, but it'll be in the states,

 which'll

make it difficult for me to get at, if I was even going to take it that far.

 When was

she born? (Well, really, how old was she when she died?)  Are there are other

accounts of Joan apart from WSB biographies and Minor Characters?  I suppose

there might be something in Off The Road... better go check that one.

 

Cheers,

 

Tom. H.

http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759

"When the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro."

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 16:26:15 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Tom Finds Problems in Beat History

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.SOL.3.95q.971114145038.5696F-100000@picard.math.uwaterloo.ca>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Fri, 14 Nov 1997, Neil Hennessy wrote:

 

> Despite Patricia's many admonitions against Morgan's Literary Outlaw, I

 

I, like many others, have greatly enjoyed Patricia's stories of WSB, but

was also surprised to hear her say that Morgan's book was unreliable in

certain respects. I had thought it was pretty good--but then, I didn't

know WSB personally. So Patricia, if you're willing, I would love to have

some more specifics as to what exactly, Morgan got wrong?

 

*******

Jeff Taylor

taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

*******

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 18:07:12 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      CCI

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CCI

(For Leon and Joe, by an outsider)

 

Central Correctional Institute.

A granite fortress,

Mined on the Saluda River

By the inmates.

 

That was before THE war.

 

Death house.

Pee Wee Gaskins blew up Rudolph Tyner

And they made a tv movie of it.

Outside were baseball fields, basketball courts, and weights.

And row after row of barbed razor wire helix curving back

Until it reinvented itself.

Machine guns in the turrets.

Right on the Columbia canal.

 

In this cell block the ghosts howl,

And you do not have to strain to hear them.

 

Now, it is almost gone.  All but the granite.

First they made a park on the old canal.

Then Bell South built a building to house

Busy executives of this modern society.

So, they moved the prison, tore it down,

Will soon build condominiums.

Haunted by the rastafarian dreams,

by the death row marches,

by the electrocution of a teen age boy,

by Tyner turning on his radio,

by three time users doing 25 with no parole.

 

It has been the home of noble spirits too,

But, alas, they do not haunt,

Or if they do, are drowned by banshee.

 

CCI,

Central Correctional Institute,

Maximum Security,

Not much correction.

Turn your head like you can forget.

In the night, they shall hear the voices.

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 18:13:04 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      Hey Sherri

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What was that song Sherri, the one I liked when I was the Child. It

doesn't seem to work as good these days.

 

Teach your children well

The parent's hell

Can slowly go by,

Don't you ever ask them why,

If they told you you would sigh,

Just look at them and smile,

And know they love you.

 

An interesting point you make in your post about the generation

thingy.  Last night's ER was all about that distance and what creates

it.  It was very well done for tv.  In one scene the sexy guy's

character (Clooney) said to the dork guy, Mark?, that his father being

there every night, even when he said nothing, was an act of love.  It

caused me to rethink some of my observations.

 

As children, it is hard for us to know what our parents have been

through and what decisions and experinces got them to be who they

were.  As parents, it is hard for me to get my children to see what

the difference is.  I think honesty is the best we can do.

 

Take care,

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 17:13:28 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: star wars and Kerouac?

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Mike Rice wrote:

>

> This is an interesting thread.  I saw the Campbell

> TV shows, but only liked the first two, the ones where

> Campbell identifies the universal meanings of many

> symbols.  Only on rerelease did I learn about Lucas

> writing the Campbell symbols into Star Wars.  I have

> never heard anywhere else that he hired Campbell as

> an advisor on the movie. I certainly agree the Moyer's

> films on Campbell were more interesting to me than

> Star Wars.

>

> A friend of mine has a load of Campbell lectures on

> audiotape which he keeps promising to lend me.  Then

> he doesn't come through.  He told me the Campbell

> lectures are better than the Campbell books. I have

> read none of the Campbell books.  Does someone else

> have another opionion?

>

> Mike Rice

 

The lectures are better -- but get the videos he's more human that way.

(even has to check his watch to see how he's doing on time).  I believe

it's called Transformations of Myth Through Time.

 

my local library had it.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

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Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 17:41:47 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jym Mooney <jymmoon@EXECPC.COM>

Subject:      Re: Greatest Novels ...

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Mike Rice wrote:

 

> Did Selby have other books besides Last Exit?  I read this one just a few

> years ago and thought there was more understanding of sexuality in all

its

> disguises, in the book, than in any other I have read before or since.

It

> has an understanding of homosexuality in it that I have not seen equaled

> in any other novel, since.

 

This summer I picked up a Quality Paperback Book Club three-for-one edition

of Selby's "Last Exit...," "The Room," and "Requiem For A Dream."  Up until

I got this book, I had only been aware of "Last Exit" as well.  What a

powerful writer indeed.  Selby writes in his introduction that he is

concerned with what happens when people lose control over themselves and/or

their situation...when that happens, he paints horrifying, grim portraits

of life being sucked down an irresistible vortex.  Not light reading for a

sunny summer's day, by any means, but meaty, gutsy, honest stuff.

 

Jym

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 20:04:44 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Special! Selected L...

 

Paul from Kerouac Quarterly has offered copies of Kerouac's Selected Letters

hardcover for $15.00 - with free copy of the KQ

This is a great deal...

But before you buy it, please note that we also have copies of the book

available for the same price (orig published price was $29.95) but our copies

are signed by Ann Charters.....at no additional charge....

Thanks -

Jeffrey

Water Row Books

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 20:47:44 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nancy B Brodsky <nbb203@IS8.NYU.EDU>

Subject:      poetry places (fwd)

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 Hey guys,

A friend asked me to pass along the following website for poets...

 <A HREF="http://www.gis.net/~levesque2/contactinformation.html">Poetry Inform

ation</A>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 21:24:54 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Special! Selected L...

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At 08:04 PM 11/14/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Paul from Kerouac Quarterly has offered copies of Kerouac's Selected Letters

>hardcover for $15.00 - with free copy of the KQ

>This is a great deal...

>But before you buy it, please note that we also have copies of the book

>available for the same price (orig published price was $29.95) but our copies

>are signed by Ann Charters.....at no additional charge....

>Thanks -

>Jeffrey

>Water Row Books

>

We will not be undersold! Selected Letters Volume I (Hardcover 1st Edition

Barnd New! and The Kerouac Quarterly No. 2 for $10.00 plus $2.00 P/H.

Thanks! Paul of TKQ. . .

"We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

                                           Henry David Thoreau

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Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 20:58:06 -0500

Reply-To:     tb2867a@american.edu

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Tom Bryer <tb2867a@AMERICAN.EDU>

Organization: American University

Subject:      Beats as source for 60s counterculture

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Does anybody know of any titles (literature or otherwise) looking at the

Beats of the 50s as a source and influence on the countercultural

ideology of the sixties?

 

Thanks,

 

Tom

--

Next Meeting for Third Party League:

 

   Nov. 20th at 8 PM

 

Hear different political perspectives!

This week will feature the voice of DSA.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 20:22:52 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Special! Selected L...

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Paul A. Maher Jr. wrote:

>

> At 08:04 PM 11/14/97 -0500, you wrote:

> >Paul from Kerouac Quarterly has offered copies of Kerouac's Selected Letters

> >hardcover for $15.00 - with free copy of the KQ

> >This is a great deal...

> >But before you buy it, please note that we also have copies of the book

> >available for the same price (orig published price was $29.95) but our copies

> >are signed by Ann Charters.....at no additional charge....

> >Thanks -

> >Jeffrey

> >Water Row Books

> >

> We will not be undersold! Selected Letters Volume I (Hardcover 1st Edition

> Barnd New! and The Kerouac Quarterly No. 2 for $10.00 plus $2.00 P/H.

> Thanks! Paul of TKQ. . .

> "We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

>                                            Henry David Thoreau

i love this list!!!!!

p

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 20:33:32 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Special! Selected L...

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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Patricia Elliott wrote:

>

> Paul A. Maher Jr. wrote:

> >

> > At 08:04 PM 11/14/97 -0500, you wrote:

> > >Paul from Kerouac Quarterly has offered copies of Kerouac's Selected

 Letters

> > >hardcover for $15.00 - with free copy of the KQ

> > >This is a great deal...

> > >But before you buy it, please note that we also have copies of the book

> > >available for the same price (orig published price was $29.95) but our

 copies

> > >are signed by Ann Charters.....at no additional charge....

> > >Thanks -

> > >Jeffrey

> > >Water Row Books

> > >

> > We will not be undersold! Selected Letters Volume I (Hardcover 1st Edition

> > Barnd New! and The Kerouac Quarterly No. 2 for $10.00 plus $2.00 P/H.

> > Thanks! Paul of TKQ. . .

> > "We cannot well do without our sins; they are the highway to our virtues."

> >                                            Henry David Thoreau

> i love this list!!!!!

> p

 

whadamybidforIgottenbucksdoIhear 9 bucks anyone give 9 bucs?????

 

auctioneer

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 22:05:27 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      free enterprise

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Free enterprise is a beautiful thing.  Ain't it.

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 14 Nov 1997 22:26:21 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Subject:      correction/not users, losers

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CCI

(For Leon and Joe, by an outsider)

 

Central Correctional Institute.

A granite fortress,

Mined on the Saluda River

By the inmates.

 

That was before THE war.

 

Death house.

Pee Wee Gaskins blew up Rudolph Tyner

And they made a tv movie of it.

Outside were baseball fields, basketball courts, and weights.

And row after row of barbed razor wire helix curving back

Until it reinvented itself.

Machine guns in the turrets.

Right on the Columbia canal.

 

In this cell block the ghosts howl,

And you do not have to strain to hear them.

 

Now, it is almost gone.  All but the granite.

First they made a park on the old canal.

Then Bell South built a building to house

Busy executives of this modern society.

So, they moved the prison, tore it down,

Will soon build condominiums.

Haunted by the rastafarian dreams,

by the death row marches,

by the electrocution of a teen age boy,

by Tyner turning on his radio,

by three time losers doing 25 with no parole.

 

It has been the home of noble spirits too,

But, alas, they do not haunt,

Or if they do, are drowned by banshee.

 

CCI,

Central Correctional Institute,

Maximum Security,

Not much correction.

Turn your head like you can forget.

In the night, they shall hear the voices.

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

 



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