=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 6 Oct 1997 17:03:38 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      road trip/not totally on track...mc

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Marie Countryman wrote:

 

> farewell electronic beats and  bohemeians! i'm off to louisville! to

> meet some cross list and new friends and read at the twice told coffe

> house .

> tomorow  morning i put myself and my electronic briefcase from hell

> (walkman dictaphone earphones cameras-batteries and film and

> sketchbooks  with a tangle of wires of course and a case full of

> cassettes/ poets and musicians mixed)(i only lack a powerbook, anyone

> want to donate?)

 

 

 

> (seroiusly, i'm

> documenting the trip with phots and on going dictation,

> actually i will look so eccentric i've figured out how to ensure a

> private seat :

> talk to dictaphone, listen to watch, talk som more.

> i think i already sent this but what the hell, moods mellow and i'm

> off on a

> ridiculously long (27hr)bus trip to l'ville.

> i'm not having my mail stopped. i'm hoping we can find some electronic

> time to at

> least drop a yahoo to the list...

> ok

> this more than anyone poss9iibly gets to know how chatty i get when im

> pounded.

> night all

> see y'all in a few days.

> i pity jim, he gets to claim my coprse or the expalin the handcuffs,

> all to be

> dealt with in chapter 2 and ok this is definitely enough.

> la to all and to al a goodnm

> mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 6 Oct 1997 16:05:36 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: road trip/not totally on track...mc

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Marie Countryman wrote:

>

> Marie Countryman wrote:

>

> > farewell electronic beats and  bohemeians! i'm off to louisville! to

> > meet some cross list and new friends and read at the twice told coffe

> > house .

> > tomorow  morning i put myself and my electronic briefcase from hell

> > (walkman dictaphone earphones cameras-batteries and film and

> > sketchbooks  with a tangle of wires of course and a case full of

> > cassettes/ poets and musicians mixed)(i only lack a powerbook, anyone

> > want to donate?)

>

> > (seroiusly, i'm

> > documenting the trip with phots and on going dictation,

> > actually i will look so eccentric i've figured out how to ensure a

> > private seat :

> > talk to dictaphone, listen to watch, talk som more.

> > i think i already sent this but what the hell, moods mellow and i'm

> > off on a

> > ridiculously long (27hr)bus trip to l'ville.

> > i'm not having my mail stopped. i'm hoping we can find some electronic

> > time to at

> > least drop a yahoo to the list...

> > ok

> > this more than anyone poss9iibly gets to know how chatty i get when im

> > pounded.

> > night all

> > see y'all in a few days.

> > i pity jim, he gets to claim my coprse or the expalin the handcuffs,

> > all to be

> > dealt with in chapter 2 and ok this is definitely enough.

> > la to all and to al a goodnm

> > mc

 

may the wind be at your back

don't take any wooden nickels

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 6 Oct 1997 17:18:12 +0000

Reply-To:     randyr@southeast.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Comments:     Authenticated sender is <randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>

From:         randy royal <randyr@MAILHUB.JAXNET.COM>

Subject:      Re: road trip/not totally on track...mc

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good luck and take care of your shoes.

~randy

> Marie Countryman wrote:

>

> > farewell electronic beats and  bohemeians! i'm off to louisville! to

> > meet some cross list and new friends and read at the twice told coffe

> > house .

> > tomorow  morning i put myself and my electronic briefcase from hell

> > (walkman dictaphone earphones cameras-batteries and film and

> > sketchbooks  with a tangle of wires of course and a case full of

> > cassettes/ poets and musicians mixed)(i only lack a powerbook, anyone

> > want to donate?)

>

>

>

> > (seroiusly, i'm

> > documenting the trip with phots and on going dictation,

> > actually i will look so eccentric i've figured out how to ensure a

> > private seat :

> > talk to dictaphone, listen to watch, talk som more.

> > i think i already sent this but what the hell, moods mellow and i'm

> > off on a

> > ridiculously long (27hr)bus trip to l'ville.

> > i'm not having my mail stopped. i'm hoping we can find some electronic

> > time to at

> > least drop a yahoo to the list...

> > ok

> > this more than anyone poss9iibly gets to know how chatty i get when im

> > pounded.

> > night all

> > see y'all in a few days.

> > i pity jim, he gets to claim my coprse or the expalin the handcuffs,

> > all to be

> > dealt with in chapter 2 and ok this is definitely enough.

> > la to all and to al a goodnm

> > mc

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 6 Oct 1997 16:00:28 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>

Subject:      Re: road trip/not totally on track...mc

Mime-Version: 1.0

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> farewell electronic beats and  bohemeians! i'm off to louisville! to

> meet some cross list and new friends and read at the twice told coffe

> house.

 

Cincy/Louisville isn't the city you see in the opening scenes of

"WKRP", it's more like Lowell, tenements and gray clapboard.  A good

college scene, some fun night spots, and of course that beautiful muddy

river...

 

My "Lowell" is further up river, near Steubenville (as in Dino

Crochetti's "kinda reminds me of my little apartment back in

Steubenville", back in the boozin' (he never stopped the boozin'),

gamblin', whorehousin' days before he and Jerry met up and started

making the pictures).  All steel mills and bars, with a good number of

churches that might as well be "dry bars", they serve mostly a social

function.

 

Say hello to my river.  If you feel like a swim, Cassius' gold medal is

still down there somewhere.

 

love and lilies (floating from the Monongahela and Allegheny into my

big river at Pittsburgh and on down to the Miss').

 

matt h.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 7 Oct 1997 11:54:34 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         ALAN PETER MADDRELL <apm5@ABER.AC.UK>

Subject:      beat?

In-Reply-To:  <E0xHhuy-00069T-00@ultra1.aber.ac.uk>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Brief ponderance re: question of who is "beat" and who is not.

 

Taking wandering, drinking, chemicals, bohemia as the broadest of

parameters, why not Jean Genet? Not American, born 1910 Paris, not so very

fashionable either.

 

But beat? Probably.

 

Inventive? Usually.

 

My knowledge of Genet is scant, but if you are as intrigued by this

"proto-Beat" as I am, check out "The Thief's Journal". Seems like an

earlier "Diary of a Supertramp".

 

As an afterthought, anyone get to see "The Kerouac Triangle"? I caught it

in Edinburgh during the festival. Yikes, what a vomitous letdown that

was... Further details of the horror available if required.

 

ttfn

 

Alan Maddrell

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 7 Oct 1997 08:52:40 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jonathan Pickle <jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>

Subject:      Re: beat?

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 11:54 AM 10/7/97 +0100, you wrote:

>Brief ponderance re: question of who is "beat" and who is not.

>

>Taking wandering, drinking, chemicals, bohemia as the broadest of

>parameters, why not Jean Genet? Not American, born 1910 Paris, not so very

>fashionable either.

>

>But beat? Probably.

>

>Inventive? Usually.

>

>My knowledge of Genet is scant, but if you are as intrigued by this

>"proto-Beat" as I am, check out "The Thief's Journal". Seems like an

>earlier "Diary of a Supertramp".

>

>As an afterthought, anyone get to see "The Kerouac Triangle"? I caught it

>in Edinburgh during the festival. Yikes, what a vomitous letdown that

>was... Further details of the horror available if required.

>

>ttfn

>

>Alan Maddrell

>

I would like to hear about this "Kerouac Triangle".  Tell us what you saw.

 

Jon

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 7 Oct 1997 13:27:08 UT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sherri <love_singing@CLASSIC.MSN.COM>

Subject:      Re: beat?

 

yes i was at the Fringe Festical and of course made it a priority to see the

"Kerouac Triangle" - hideous i thought.  i understand Carolyn Cassady had been

there a few nights before i was...  she must have been horrified.

 

as for Jean Genet, i haven't read him, but am aware of him as a great

influence on JK.

 

ciao,

sherri

 

----------

From:   BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of ALAN PETER MADDRELL

Sent:   Tuesday, October 07, 1997 3:54 AM

To:     BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        beat?

 

Brief ponderance re: question of who is "beat" and who is not.

 

Taking wandering, drinking, chemicals, bohemia as the broadest of

parameters, why not Jean Genet? Not American, born 1910 Paris, not so very

fashionable either.

 

But beat? Probably.

 

Inventive? Usually.

 

My knowledge of Genet is scant, but if you are as intrigued by this

"proto-Beat" as I am, check out "The Thief's Journal". Seems like an

earlier "Diary of a Supertramp".

 

As an afterthought, anyone get to see "The Kerouac Triangle"? I caught it

in Edinburgh during the festival. Yikes, what a vomitous letdown that

was... Further details of the horror available if required.

 

ttfn

 

Alan Maddrell

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 7 Oct 1997 22:22:20 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Beat Supernova update 6th oct 1997

In-Reply-To:  <3437C1E6.779@midusa.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

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At 13.21 07/10/97 GMT, ipl1@columbia.edu wrote:

>You have Joyce Johnson listed as JK's wife.  She was never his wife.

>She was his girlfriend during 1957/58.

>

>

>On 6 Oct 1997 08:19:58 GMT, you wrote:

>

>>******** Beat Supernova update 6th oct 1997 ********

>>****************************************************

>>==Joyce Johnson [wife to JK]

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 7 Oct 1997 22:14:21 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Kinsey and the beats in 1945.

In-Reply-To:  <3437C1E6.779@midusa.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

"All kinds of evil plans are hatched in Ritzy's Bar -

you can sense it in the air - and all kinds of mad

sexual routines are initiated to go with them. The

safecracker proposes not only a certain loft on the

14th Street to the hoodlum, but that they sleep

together. Kinsey spent a lot of time in Ritzy's Bar,

intervieweing some of the boys; I was there the night

his assistant came, in 1945. Hassel and Carlo were

interviewed."---Jack Kerouac "On the Road" p.2,5.

 

friends, it seems that Allen Ginsberg and Herbert Huncke

were interviewed by a Kinsey assistant, there is a

notice in the Kinsey's report about such famous interviewed?

thanks a lot,

rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 7 Oct 1997 18:22:58 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: Kinsey and the beats in 1945.

In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue, 7 Oct 1997 22:14:21 +0100 from <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

 

Yes, Kinsey interviewed them.  They all hung out at the Angle bar which was on

8th Avenue in the Times Square area.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 7 Oct 1997 17:35:47 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         tristan saldana <hbeng175@EMAIL.CSUN.EDU>

Subject:      Ginsberg

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Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Hi everyone-

 

I have a newfound love for Ginsberg.  A friend/colleague gave me a copy of

the KCET bio on him. I've watched it over and over again.  I've probably

seen it five or six times in the last couple of weeks.  Anyway, I had

never seen/heard him perform his poetry until I now.  The video begins

with him reciting "Song."  His rhythm, energy, and sincerity leave me in

awe. Now my son and I skip down the street through the autumn sun and wind

singing together, "I always wanted, I always wanted to return to the body

where I was born."

 

Tristan

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 7 Oct 1997 20:49:39 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject:      New Catalogue

 

Our new Catalogue 71 is now available online...

226 Beat/Underground/Avant Garde items...

Check it out at www.waterrowbooks.com

Thanks -

Jeffrey

Water Row Books

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 7 Oct 1997 23:03:03 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Entropy Operator <rush2@INSTANTLINUX.COM>

Subject:      Re: Ginsberg

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.HPP.3.91.971007171856.23036A-100000@csun1.csun.edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

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> Hi everyone-

>

> I have a newfound love for Ginsberg.  A friend/colleague gave me a copy of

> the KCET bio on him. I've watched it over and over again.  I've probably

> seen it five or six times in the last couple of weeks.  Anyway, I had

> never seen/heard him perform his poetry until I now.  The video begins

> with him reciting "Song."  His rhythm, energy, and sincerity leave me in

> awe. Now my son and I skip down the street through the autumn sun and wind

> singing together, "I always wanted, I always wanted to return to the body

> where I was born."

>

> Tristan

>

 

 

Something else you might like.. is go to http://www.real.com I cant

rmemeber where but yo ucan find a link to an hour long conversation on the

radio between him and corso it's wonderful.. and look for the "Life and

times of Allen Ginsberg".. I've only seen it on the independant film

channel and the sundance channel.. last thing i watched on tv (oddly

enough) was the day after ginsberg died I watched the life and times of

allen ginsberg movie.. halfwaythrough my mother came home.. asked what I

was watching.. "that biography on ginsberg" then.. "oh he died" .. :/ oh

well. hey at least we have rap right? *grumble*

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 8 Oct 1997 10:57:51 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         tristan saldana <hbeng175@EMAIL.CSUN.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Ginsberg

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.LNX.3.96.971007230111.2553A-100000@poconos.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

A rather frightening but interesting story.

 

On Tue, 7 Oct 1997, Entropy Operator wrote:

 

> > Hi everyone-

> >

> > I have a newfound love for Ginsberg.  A friend/colleague gave me a copy of

> > the KCET bio on him. I've watched it over and over again.  I've probably

> > seen it five or six times in the last couple of weeks.  Anyway, I had

> > never seen/heard him perform his poetry until I now.  The video begins

> > with him reciting "Song."  His rhythm, energy, and sincerity leave me in

> > awe. Now my son and I skip down the street through the autumn sun and wind

> > singing together, "I always wanted, I always wanted to return to the body

> > where I was born."

> >

> > Tristan

> >

>

>

> Something else you might like.. is go to http://www.real.com I cant

> rmemeber where but yo ucan find a link to an hour long conversation on the

> radio between him and corso it's wonderful.. and look for the "Life and

> times of Allen Ginsberg".. I've only seen it on the independant film

> channel and the sundance channel.. last thing i watched on tv (oddly

> enough) was the day after ginsberg died I watched the life and times of

> allen ginsberg movie.. halfwaythrough my mother came home.. asked what I

> was watching.. "that biography on ginsberg" then.. "oh he died" .. :/ oh

> well. hey at least we have rap right? *grumble*

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 8 Oct 1997 19:41:33 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Eliot Katz <eliotk@EDEN.RUTGERS.EDU>

Subject:      Andy Clausen's new book

 

        Andy Clausen's new book, _40th CENTURY MAN: SELECTED VERSE

1996-1966_, has just been published by Autonomedia. It's an amazing

collection. Andy's work is energetic, funny, visionary, politically sharp &

emotionally moving. It extends a wide range of poetic traditions from

American-democratic yearnings (Whitman/the Beats/the blues) to

Russian-futurist utopian-imaginings & laments--a nice mixture for the

post-Cold War era.

 

        Andy's poetry was highly praised by Allen Ginsberg for over twenty

years.  (Andy Clausen's name also appears on the list of beat writers that

has been circulating on the beat generation newsgroup.) On the back cover of

Andy's book, Allen Ginsberg wrote: "Andy Clausen's character voice is heroic,

a vox populi of the democratic unconscious, a 'divine average' thinking

workman persona. As 'one of the roughs,' a Whitmanic laborer, precisely a

union hod-carrier lonstanding, his bardic populism's grounded on long years'

painful sturdy experience earning family bread by the sweat of his brow. His

comments on the enthusiastic Sixties, defensive Seventies, unjust Eighties

and bullying Nineties present a genuine authority in America not voiced much

in little magazine print, less in newspapers of record, never in political

theatrics through Oval Office airwaves. The expensive bullshit of Government

TV poetics suffers dimunition of credibility placed side by side with Mr.

Clausen's direct information and sad raw insight. Would he were, I'd take my

chance on a President Clausen!"

 

        The book is 192 pages with a cover painting by Eric Drooker and a

back cover author photo taken by Allen Ginsberg. To order, write to:

Autonomedia, P.O. Box 568, Williamsburgh Station, Brooklyn, NY  11211-0568.

(www.autonomedia.org) (The book is $8.00 list price plus $2.50 shipping &

handling)

 

Eliot Katz

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:41:56 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gary Mex Glazner <PoetMex@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Dana's request for SF Ideas

 

Dear Dana and Beat List,

 

Here are some interesting places to

visit while in San Francisco, and a short review

of the Six Gallery Reading (held 42 years later)

and what about Chuck...

 

Starting at City Lights 261 Columbus @ Broadway

Cool old posters and broadsides,

huge selection of poetry...

(By the way Beat Literature is upstairs

Bukowski has his own section down stairs)

 

Just across Kerouac Alley

at 255 Columbus is Vesuvio's

On the wall to the left as you walk

in are photos of poets. Dylan Thomas

once drank here after a reading.

A hang out for beat writers, Kerouac

once spent the night getting drunk and

calling Henry Miller, (who he was supposed

to be on his way to see) every hour or so

telling him he was on the way, they never met.

 

Across Columbus @ #12 Adler Alley

is Spec's still a poet hang out

with interesting memorabilia

from the beat era on the walls.

 

Walk up Columbus turn right on Broadway

walk two blocks turn left

you will find at 1010 Montgomery

the apt. building where Ginsberg

lived from Feb 3rd to Sep 6th 1955

and wrote "Howl". Light a candle, spin around

look for the best minds of your...

 

Go back down Broadway to Columbus

turn right you will find Green St.

Go a half a block to

the corner of Green and Vallejo

at 605 Vallejo is Caffe Trieste

You can still find poets here,

Ask around for Jack Hershman,

a big burly madman always ready

to talk poems and politics.

 

Continue down Green Street

576 Green was the sight of the

Cellar where Rexroth and Ferlingetthi

recorded with jazz musicians.

548 Green Gino and Carlo's

a Jack Spicer hangout.

 

1353 Grant and Green

 now the Lost and Found

Saloon in the 50's was the

Coffee Gallery home of many poetry

readings.

 

Continue down Green to Union, turn right

go up to the top of the hill

At the Corner of Union and

Montgomery in an old wood frame

building Gregory Corso lived

in the 70's. Turn left on Montgomery

go a block and a

half here you find the Filbert

Steps, turn right and walk down

into turn of the century San Francisco

a neighborhood accessible only

by a steep wooden stair case,

half way down is the Filbert

Garden, yesterday I saw a

flock of wild parrots green with bright

red heads, chased by a hawk.

Walk back up the Stairs

and continue up to Coit Tower

Here you will find sweeping views of the Bay.

Inside Coit Tower are murals

painted in the 30's, see

if you can find the book by

Rexroth on the book case

in one of the murals.

Here is the opening of

Corso's poem Ode to

Coit Tower from Gasoline.

"O anti-verdurous phallic were't

not for your pouring height looming in tears

like a sick tree or your ever-gaudy-comfort

jabbing your city's much wrinkled sky you's

seem an absurd Babel squatting before mortal millions....

>From here you are on your own.

 

There is one more address you might like to check out

(20 blocks or so from North Beach)

3119 Filmore the sight of the Six Gallery

where Ginsberg first read "Howl"

Last night there was a reading held there

as commemoration of the Gallery and as a

of memorial to Ginsberg.

 

The organizer/poet Jack Foley, has come into possession

a post card that Ginsberg made to announce the

reading with the Date of Oct. 7th, 1955. Many books

about the beats have other dates for the event,

it appears that in finding the post card, Jack has the

scoop.

 

The sight is now the home of "Silk Roads"

which sells carpets. Stacks of flying carpets with little buddhas

and Hindu statues filling the shelves, in the front window

a collection of smooth phallic stones (Lingums Sp?)

Da Mayor declared it "Six Gallery Day" in San Francisco,

 

Marc Olmsteds, poem of hearing of Ginsberg's death

while on a meditation retreat was very moving,

especially sweet was the part where Ginsberg, when

calling to tell Marc he was dying told him

how good Marc had been to him over the years,

fantastic on his death bed the poet remembers to

thank his students for their kindness.

 

Also intriguing was Neeli Cherkovski, he had just returned

from a reading in Mexico City. He turned his poem about

a museum he visited into an exploration of his soul, his

mind becoming the rooms of the museum and his

thoughts the artifacts.

 

The evening closed with the true beat style of Q.R. Hand

Who bopped and wailed with his partner Reginald Lockett.

Q.R. looks and sound like he stepped out of the 50's.

He can even pull off wearing sandels.

 

Neeli wrote "Hank" the biography

of Bukowski, when I asked him if he thought Bukowski

was a beat writer, He laughed and said, "Bukowski, hated

the beats, although he was the same age, he started writing

poetry much later, his themes were different. No he is definitely

not beat." Then Joyce Jenkins of Poetry Flash said, "Bukowski

wasn't beat, he was postal!"

 

There was for me a huge shadow over the event

40 years later, the poets still trying to measure

up to that night so long ago....

 

love and flowers in my hair,

Gary Mex Glazner

85 Stanyan Street and other Sorrows

P.S. Addresses, and beat stories are from Don Herron's

The Literary World of San Francisco

published by City Lights Books

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 8 Oct 1997 21:04:21 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: Dana's request for SF Ideas

In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:41:56 -0400 from <PoetMex@AOL.COM>

 

Great list of SF places.  Let me add 29 Russell Street near Hyde &

Union, home of the Cassadys and Jack & Memere's brief home in Berkeley

at 1943 Berkeley Way. And for some good Chinese food--Woey Loy Goey--on

Jackson, I think.  Dana, if you need hotel recommendations, email me

privately.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 8 Oct 1997 22:30:19 -0400

Reply-To:     Greg Elwell <elwellg@voicenet.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Greg Elwell <elwellg@VOICENET.COM>

Subject:      Kerouac and Capote

MIME-Version: 1.0

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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

 

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        charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

I was in the library today, doing some reading, when I took a little =

break to rest. I found myself looking around the entire library, when I =

saw a poster-type thing that I hadn't noticed before.  It said something =

like, "Great Writers," or something or other.  Anyhow, it has drawings =

of famous writers, and Kerouac and Capote were on the same poster.  I =

just find that ironic, being that Capote called Kerouac a "Typist, not a =

writer."

 

Greg Elwell

 

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BCD439.C2812840

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        charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">

<HTML>

<HEAD>

 

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =

http-equiv=3DContent-Type>

<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>

</HEAD>

<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>

<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I was in the library today, doing =

some reading,=20

when I took a little break to rest. I found myself looking around the =

entire=20

library, when I saw a poster-type thing that I hadn't noticed =

before.&nbsp; It=20

said something like, &quot;Great Writers,&quot; or something or =

other.&nbsp;=20

Anyhow, it has drawings of famous writers, and Kerouac and Capote were =

on the=20

same poster.&nbsp; I just find that ironic, being that Capote called =

Kerouac a=20

&quot;Typist, not a writer.&quot;</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Greg =

Elwell</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

 

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BCD439.C2812840--

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:51:55 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Pulp Fiction

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Dear Beat-lers,

 

During a discussion of paperback covers of Kerouac novels I mentioned a

local outfit that has a series of postcards (and I beleive posters) of

old pulp covers.  This collection includes the original cover of "Junky"

by "Bill Lee"--WSB's first publication.

 

For those who asked I am sending along the address.  The operation has

moved from Palo Alto to Santa Barbara.  Before anyone gets too excited

let me not that "Junky" is the only beat cover I have seen, tho there

may be others.  Most of the stuff is wonderfully lurid trash,

unmemorable then and justly forgotten, but the art is great.

 

The address is

 

Jeff Luther

PC Design

P.O Box 40859

Santa Barbara, Ca. 93140

Ph:  805-88409110

 

J. Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 8 Oct 1997 22:46:04 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Burroughs piece

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Neil Hennessy wrote:

> In any case, the lead in page is at

> http://www.interlog.com/~fiction/netedit.html

> and the actual tribute is linked from there. I'll warn you

>

> Neil

 

bravo

p

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 8 Oct 1997 22:47:08 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Burroughs piece

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Neil Hennessy wrote:

>

> Hello fellow Beat-L'ers,

>

> I'm currently the Internet Editor for B&A New Fiction, and

> the latest Net Editorial I've written is on Burroughs. It's

> not really an editorial but a fiction. It's also not really a

> fiction, but a fragmented narrative involving 17 quotations

> from 10 books, two photographs, 3 paintings, and a couple of

> concrete poems that are all an integral part of the story. The

> piece is also a memorial/tribute, but it is more than that,

> and perhaps less.

>

> In any case, the lead in page is at

> http://www.interlog.com/~fiction/netedit.html

> and the actual tribute is linked from there. I'll warn you

> that it is about 400K with all the images.

>

> It was writing this piece that has finally brought a sense of

> closure. I didn't burn anything, but created something with

> Burroughs as silent collaborator. We have different ways

> of dealing with grief, and this is how I dealt with mine.

>

> It's called "ghost-writing: a metempsychosis"

>

> I invite you all to read/view it, and I'd appreciate any

> comments or feedback.

>

> Thanks,

> Neil

 

graceful yet a real head snapper. bravo

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 8 Oct 1997 21:34:12 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         ANNE ELIZABETH SNEDDON <sneddon@NEVADA.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Kinsey and the beats in 1945.

In-Reply-To:  <BEAT-L%1997100718260104@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

There is a book called "Cad, A Handbook for Heels," which is a book

dedicated to "Slick cats, hip chicks, exotic sounds, G-men, B-girls, stag

parties, stogies, Spanish Fly, German Beer..." (isbn #0-922915-09-1)

It contains a reprint of an article from a 50's men's magazine called

"BEAT-ing off with Dr. Kinsey" and it gives some detail into what went on

during the interviews. There's also a very interesting reprint of an

interview with Chet Baker.   I found my copy at Tower Records.

Anne Sneddon

 

 

On Tue, 7 Oct 1997, Bill Gargan wrote:

 

> Yes, Kinsey interviewed them.  They all hung out at the Angle bar which was on

> 8th Avenue in the Times Square area.

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 8 Oct 1997 23:26:39 -0500

Reply-To:     cawilkie@comic.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cathy Wilkie <cawilkie@COMIC.NET>

Subject:      just saying hello

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Thank god i have found some kindred souls to speak to!!!

Anyone know any cool groovy beat related places to visit in Denver

colorado? I also recently got a copy of "Some of the Dharma"

anyone else been enlightened by it yet?

 

Looking forward to getting to know ya'll.

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 8 Oct 1997 23:00:18 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Burroughs piece/ Current posting format

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Patricia,

 

Good to have you back.

 

To all others,  I must confess I am puzzled by the current very slow

pulse of this list.  Maybe, as one who has complained when we were

getting upwards of 50 posts a day I am paying for my sins, but where is

everybody?

 

I am also puzzled by the reply format which usually indicates the list

address but sometimes the individual address.  Can Bill or someone

please elucidate why this changes?

 

Let's fire this sucker up again!

 

James Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 9 Oct 1997 00:55:55 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Burroughs piece/ Current posting format

Comments: To: stauffer@pacbell.net

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

James Stauffer wrote:

>

> Patricia,

>

> Good to have you back.

>

> To all others,  I must confess I am puzzled by the current very slow

> pulse of this list.  Maybe, as one who has complained when we were

> getting upwards of 50 posts a day I am paying for my sins, but where is

> everybody?

>

> I am also puzzled by the reply format which usually indicates the list

> address but sometimes the individual address.  Can Bill or someone

> please elucidate why this changes?

>

> Let's fire this sucker up again!

>

> James Stauffer

 

I'm up.  Have been for 38 hours .... will everybody please tell some

Beat bedtime stories :)

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 8 Oct 1997 23:11:35 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Beat Bedtime Stories

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

David,

 

I suspect that a real beat bedtime story would be more like whatever

imaginative bullshit our heroes fed Alfred Kinsey.

 

But, once upon a time there was a Beat daddy-O bear, a Beatchick Bear

and a Beat Baby bear . . . They all spent a lot of time playing their

bongos and adjusting their berets, and combing their goatees (at least

the Daddy-O bear did) . . .  and the porridge would probably turn out to

be reefer.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 9 Oct 1997 01:12:19 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Beat Bedtime Stories

Comments: To: stauffer@pacbell.net

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

James Stauffer wrote:

>

> David,

>

> I suspect that a real beat bedtime story would be more like whatever

> imaginative bullshit our heroes fed Alfred Kinsey.

>

> But, once upon a time there was a Beat daddy-O bear, a Beatchick Bear

> and a Beat Baby bear . . . They all spent a lot of time playing their

> bongos and adjusting their berets, and combing their goatees (at least

> the Daddy-O bear did) . . .  and the porridge would probably turn out to

> be reefer.

 

Somebody's bit bogarting my porridge...i know this one already does

somebody have another?

 

patricia be certain to fill us in on any excitements from your travels.

Perhaps it is a coincidence meaningful or otherwise but the slowdown

seems to have hit the little machine here that we all love to live on

about the time i punched keys in your basement and took a four hour nap

in the basement.  That was a wonderful patchwork quilt.  Is there a

story behind that.  A bedtime story...hint hint hint.... Anyone Anyone

 

To sleep to sleep perchance to have a nightmare from which i can never

awake, ah there's the rub

 

Let's see Beat sounds lately.  Listened to Allen Ginsberg's "Do The

Meditation Rock" about thirty times in the last week.  Tonight listened

to Elvis of Lettres and Spared Ass Annie.

 

Oh By the way, i heard from a cricket yesterday that Timothy Leary is

dead!  Can you believe that????

 

And i'm also a big fat liar.

 

I haven't been up for anywhere near 38 hours.  But more Beat Bedtime

stories anyway.  I liked James' lots and lots and lots.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 9 Oct 1997 01:22:41 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Pulp Fiction

Comments: To: stauffer@pacbell.net

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

James Stauffer wrote:

>

> Dear Beat-lers,

>

> During a discussion of paperback covers of Kerouac novels I mentioned a

> local outfit that has a series of postcards (and I beleive posters) of

> old pulp covers.  This collection includes the original cover of "Junky"

> by "Bill Lee"--WSB's first publication.

>

> For those who asked I am sending along the address.  The operation has

> moved from Palo Alto to Santa Barbara.  Before anyone gets too excited

> let me not that "Junky" is the only beat cover I have seen, tho there

> may be others.  Most of the stuff is wonderfully lurid trash,

> unmemorable then and justly forgotten, but the art is great.

>

> The address is

>

> Jeff Luther

> PC Design

> P.O Box 40859

> Santa Barbara, Ca. 93140

> Ph:  805-88409110

>

> J. Stauffer

 

Now if everyone just orders one of these Junkie postcards and sends them

to me my ponyexpress mailbox will no longer feel anorexic

 

david rhaesa

nita #23

500 east crawford st.

salina, Kansas 67401

 

(please no mail bombs!)

 

dbr

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 9 Oct 1997 01:32:37 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: another monday morning

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

RACE --- wrote:

>

> a twister catches

> all Beat-L posts and deposits

> them in the chirp of a cricket

> Frances spills a cup

> of coffee and it showers

> the cricket

> who runs away

> but returns

> to sing his song

> just another monday morning

> october this time around (i think)

> on my back stoop....

>

> david rhaesa

> salina, Kansas

 

come on cricket give us back our posts.

nice little cricket

nice little cricket

of course i understand you.

no that's not a pick up line.

will you just give the fucking machine back its posting CHI?

well yes i probably should wash my mouth out with soap.

what?

you're right.

well that's true too.

yes. yes.  Gregory is the greatest poet

 

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 8 Oct 1997 23:41:20 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         George <nellie@CCO.NET>

Subject:      Re: black beats

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 03:28 PM 10/6/97 -0400, you wrote:

>> Thanks to the wonders of our education system, I have to do a report

>>on a 'famous' African American

>

>You don't sound happy about this assignment... how come?

>

>--

>Adam

>

>

 

Oh, I have no problem with the assingment, just the education system

 

Janelle

 

 

        "Strange now to think of you, gone without corsets & eyes,"

                                                        --Allen Ginsberg

 

        "So in America when the sun goes down and I sit on the old broken-down

river pier watching the long, long skies over New Jersey and sense all that

raw land  that rolls in one unbelivble huge bulge over to the West Coast,

and all that road going and all thoes people dreaming in the immensity of

it, and in Iowa i know by now the children must be crying in the land where

they let the children cry, and tonight the stars'll be out, and don't you

know God is Pooh Bear?  the evening star must be drooping and shedding her

spakler dims on the prairie, which is just before the coming of compleate

night that blesses the earth, darkens all rivers, cups the peaks and folds

the final shore in, and nobody, nobody knows what's going to happen to

anybody besides the forlorn rags of growing old, I think of Dean Moriarty, I

even think of old Dean Moriarty the father we never found, I think of Dean

Moriarty."                      --Jack Kerouac

 

 

 

*********************************************************************

If you would like to submit an artical, drawing, photograph, poem, song,

story, joke, rant, manifesto, or whatever else you have, to 96 MILES TO

PORTLAND, PLEASE contact me.  If you want to subscribe PLEASE contact me, if

you submitt your issue containing the submission is free.  If you would just

like to get an issue then it's $1. By e-mail it's free but you can't seee

the pretty pictures

=========================================================================

Date:         Wed, 8 Oct 1997 23:51:28 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      [Fwd: Re: Imploding Text Revival]

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: message/rfc822

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Message-ID: <343C7CBF.1B80@pacbell.net>

Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 23:42:07 -0700

From: James Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>

Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net

X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)

MIME-Version: 1.0

To: RACE --- <race@midusa.net>

Subject: Re:Imploding Text Revival

References: <Pine.SUN.3.95q.971003111026.22040A-100000@landen.math.uwaterloo.ca>

                            <343C53BC.27EE@sunflower.com> <343C72F2.41CB@pacbell.net>

 <343C71EB.556E@midusa.net>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

David

 

Another contribution for material for your "Imploding Text"--

 

Particularly the last stanza--last Will & Testament

 

Lew Welch, prophetically foreshadowing his disappearance/suicide.

 

SONG OF THE TURKEY BUZZARD

 

                        For Rock Scully

                        who heard it

                        the first

                        time

 

Praises, Tamalpais

        Perfect in Wisdon and Beauty,

She of the Wheeling Birds

 

                I

 

The rider riddle is easy to ask,

but the answer might suprise you.

 

How desperately I wanted Cougar

(I, Leo, etc.)

        brilliant proofs: terrain

color, food, all

nonsense.  All made up.

 

        They were always there, the

      laziest high-flyers, bronze-winged,

                the silent ones

 

"A cunning man always laughs and smiles,

        even if he's desperately hungry,

while a good bird always flies like a vulture,

        even if it is starving."

 

                (Milerapa sang)

 

Over and over again, that sign:

 

I hit one once, with a .22

heard the "flak" and a feather flew off, he

flapped his wings just once and

went on sailing. Bronze

(when seen from above)

 

                as I have seen them, all day sitting

                on a cliff so steep they

                circledd below me, in the up-draft

                passed so close I could see his

                eye.

 

        Praises Tamalpais,

           Perfect in Wisdon amd Beauty,

        She of the Wheeling Birds.

 

        Another time the vision was so clear another saw it too,

Wet, a hatching bird, the shell of the egg streaked with dry scum

exhausted, wet, too weak to move the shriveled wings, fierce

sun-heat, sand.  Twitching, as with elbows (we all have the same

parts). Beak open, neck stretched, gasping for air. O how we

want to live!

 

    "Poor little bird," she said, "he'll never make it."

 

        Praises, Tamalpais,

                Perfect in Wisdon and Beauty,

        She of the Wheeling Birds.

 

        Even so I didn't get it for a long long while.  It finally came

in a trance, a coma, half in sleep and half in fever-mind,  A Turkey

Buzzard, wounded, found by a rock on the mountain.  He wanted

to die alone.  I had never seen one, wild, so close.  When I reached

out, he sidles away, head drooping, as dizzy as I was.  I put my

hand on his wing-shoulders and lifted him.  He tried, feebly, to

tear at my hands with his beak.  He tore my flesh too slightly to

make any difference.  The he tried to heave his great wings. Weak

as he was, I could barely hold him.

 

  A drunken veternarian found a festering bullet in his side,

a .22 that slid between the bronze scales his feathers were.

We removed it and cleansed the wound.

 

  Finally he ate the rotten gophers I trapped and prepared

for him.  Even at first, he drank a lot of water.  My dog seemed

frighted of him

 

        They smell sweet

           meat is dry on their talons

 

        The very opposite of

           death

 

        bird of re-birth

           Buzzard

 

        meat is rotten made

           Sweet again and

 

        lean, unkillable, wing-locked

           soarer til he's but a

 

        speck in the highest sky

            infallible

 

        eye finds Feast! on

            baked concrete

 

        free!

 

        squashed rabbit ripened:

           our good cheese

 

(to keep the highways clean, and bother no Being)

 

        Prqises Gentle Tamalpais

   Perfect in Wisdom and Beauty of the

           sweetes water

         and the soaring birds

 

    great seas at the feet of thy cliffs.

 

 

Hear my last Will & Testament

 

        Among my friends there shall  always be

        one with proper instructions

        for my continuance.

 

                Let no one grieve.

                I shall have used it all up

                used up ever bit of it.

 

                What an extravagance!

                What a relief!

 

        On a marked rock, follwing his orders,

        place my meat.

 

                All care must be taken not to

                frighten the natives of this

                barbarous land, who

                will not let us die, even

                as we wish..

 

        With proper ceremony disembowel what I

        no longer need, that it might more quickly

        rot and tempt

 

        my new form.

 

(as one who hit one with  .22 myself)

J. STauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 9 Oct 1997 02:59:23 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         M L Buchenroth <mike@BUCHENROTH.COM>

Organization: No organization here

Subject:      Re: Burroughs piece/ Current posting format/Topcat

Comments: cc: "race@MIDUSA.NET;stauffer@PACBELL.NET;pelliott"@SUNFLOWER.COM

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RACE --- wrote:

> James Stauffer wrote:

> > Patricia,

> > Good to have you back.

> > To all others,  I must confess I am puzzled by the current very slow

> > pulse of this list.  Maybe, as one who has complained when we were

> > getting upwards of 50 posts a day I am paying for my sins, but where > > is

 everybody?

> > I am also puzzled by the reply format which usually indicates the > > list

 address but sometimes the individual address.  Can Bill or > > > > someone

 please elucidate why this changes?

> > Let's fire this sucker up again! James Stauffer

> I'm up.  Have been for 38 hours .... will everybody please tell some

> Beat bedtime stories :

****

Let Topcat here delight you, as persistent as he is, I still encourage

you to double click Topcat so as to exeucute him. Afterwhile you might

even desire to execute him again... or to allow a friend to execute him.

He'll provide plenty of pleasure . . .

 

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--------------38936ACC757--

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 9 Oct 1997 03:31:08 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Kinsey and the beats in 1945.

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 09:34 PM 10/8/97 -0700, you wrote:

>There is a book called "Cad, A Handbook for Heels," which is a book

>dedicated to "Slick cats, hip chicks, exotic sounds, G-men, B-girls, stag

>parties, stogies, Spanish Fly, German Beer..." (isbn #0-922915-09-1)

>It contains a reprint of an article from a 50's men's magazine called

>"BEAT-ing off with Dr. Kinsey" and it gives some detail into what went on

>during the interviews. There's also a very interesting reprint of an

>interview with Chet Baker.   I found my copy at Tower Records.

>Anne Sneddon

>

>

>On Tue, 7 Oct 1997, Bill Gargan wrote:

>

>> Yes, Kinsey interviewed them.  They all hung out at the Angle bar which

was on

>> 8th Avenue in the Times Square area.

>>

>

>

The New Yorker carried a preview recently of a new bio of Kinsey,

which suggested the Kinsey report was cooked to overreport the

amount of homosexuality in America.  It also said Kinsey himself

was a homosexual and masochist.  The scientist had an agenda behind

his "science," according to the new biography.

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 9 Oct 1997 05:07:41 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jonathan Pickle <jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Burroughs piece/ Current posting format/Topcat

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Okay, this cat bouncing around my screen is great. He reminds me of NC who

could jump around from place to place yet could in an instant go to sleep.

Or maybe it was JK.  I can't remember how or who was being described, but

it's late hear and I've been up for almost 48 hours now trying to write an

English rport on _Trilby_ - how do you stop this thing?

 

Jon

 

At 02:59 AM 10/9/97 -0500, you wrote:

>RACE --- wrote:

>> James Stauffer wrote:

>> > Patricia,

>> > Good to have you back.

>> > To all others,  I must confess I am puzzled by the current very slow

>> > pulse of this list.  Maybe, as one who has complained when we were

>> > getting upwards of 50 posts a day I am paying for my sins, but where >

> is

> everybody?

>> > I am also puzzled by the reply format which usually indicates the > >

list

> address but sometimes the individual address.  Can Bill or > > > > someone

> please elucidate why this changes?

>> > Let's fire this sucker up again! James Stauffer

>> I'm up.  Have been for 38 hours .... will everybody please tell some

>> Beat bedtime stories :

>****

>Let Topcat here delight you, as persistent as he is, I still encourage

>you to double click Topcat so as to exeucute him. Afterwhile you might

>even desire to execute him again... or to allow a friend to execute him.

>He'll provide plenty of pleasure . . .

>

>Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\Topcat.exe"

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 9 Oct 1997 16:53:37 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: Caleb Carr

In-Reply-To:  <3437C1E6.779@midusa.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>From:         Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>

>Subject:      Caleb Carr

>To:           BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

>

>For anyone interested, there's an interesting interview with Caleb Carr

>at the Salon website. Here's where to go:

>http://www.salonmagazine.com/books/int/

>

>Adrien

>

thanks adrien,

just ended to read _The Alienist_ by Caleb Carr,

and the book is fine well written. i was surprised 'cuz of Caleb Carr

don't referred to his beat father Lucien Carr in the thanks,

then i visit the web site (u mentioned) and it's very instructive.

The italian translation of _The Alienist_ (L'Alienista,1995)

has on the cover an evocative

photo by Alfred Stieglitz, titled "The Street", from the

Stieglitz's book titled Camera Work (july 1903), great!,

ciao da rinaldo.

 

from the above mentioned web site :

"Carr's father, Lucien Carr, was a seminal figure in the early years of the

Beats. While he wasn't a writer himself, he introduced Jack Kerouac, Allen

Ginsberg and William S. Burroughs to each other, and he remained friends

with all three until their deaths. Lucien Carr was a kind of dark star in

the Beat firmament. In 1944, he murdered a man named David Kammerer, who

was so infatuated with Carr that he followed him to New York from their

hometown of St. Louis. The details of that night are unclear (Kammerer may

have tried to kiss Carr). But Carr later rolled the dead man into the

Hudson River and, with Kerouac's help, hid the man's eyeglasses and the

murder weapon. Kerouac was imprisoned for several days as an accomplice;

Carr was out after two years, having convinced the court that he was

fighting off an unwanted homosexual advance."

-*-

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 9 Oct 1997 08:40:39 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Imploding Text Revival

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

James Stauffer wrote:

>

> David

>

> Another contribution for material for your "Imploding Text"--

>

> Particularly the last stanza--last Will & Testament

>

> Lew Welch, prophetically foreshadowing his disappearance/suicide.

>

> SONG OF THE TURKEY BUZZARD

>

>                         For Rock Scully

>                         who heard it

>                         the first

>                         time

>

> Praises, Tamalpais

>         Perfect in Wisdon and Beauty,

> She of the Wheeling Birds

>

>                 I

>

> The rider riddle is easy to ask,

> but the answer might suprise you.

>

> How desperately I wanted Cougar

> (I, Leo, etc.)

>         brilliant proofs: terrain

> color, food, all

> nonsense.  All made up.

>

>         They were always there, the

>       laziest high-flyers, bronze-winged,

>                 the silent ones

>

> "A cunning man always laughs and smiles,

>         even if he's desperately hungry,

> while a good bird always flies like a vulture,

>         even if it is starving."

>

>                 (Milerapa sang)

>

> Over and over again, that sign:

>

> I hit one once, with a .22

> heard the "flak" and a feather flew off, he

> flapped his wings just once and

> went on sailing. Bronze

> (when seen from above)

>

>                 as I have seen them, all day sitting

>                 on a cliff so steep they

>                 circledd below me, in the up-draft

>                 passed so close I could see his

>                 eye.

>

>         Praises Tamalpais,

>            Perfect in Wisdon amd Beauty,

>         She of the Wheeling Birds.

>

>         Another time the vision was so clear another saw it too,

> Wet, a hatching bird, the shell of the egg streaked with dry scum

> exhausted, wet, too weak to move the shriveled wings, fierce

> sun-heat, sand.  Twitching, as with elbows (we all have the same

> parts). Beak open, neck stretched, gasping for air. O how we

> want to live!

>

>     "Poor little bird," she said, "he'll never make it."

>

>         Praises, Tamalpais,

>                 Perfect in Wisdon and Beauty,

>         She of the Wheeling Birds.

>

>         Even so I didn't get it for a long long while.  It finally came

> in a trance, a coma, half in sleep and half in fever-mind,  A Turkey

> Buzzard, wounded, found by a rock on the mountain.  He wanted

> to die alone.  I had never seen one, wild, so close.  When I reached

> out, he sidles away, head drooping, as dizzy as I was.  I put my

> hand on his wing-shoulders and lifted him.  He tried, feebly, to

> tear at my hands with his beak.  He tore my flesh too slightly to

> make any difference.  The he tried to heave his great wings. Weak

> as he was, I could barely hold him.

>

>   A drunken veternarian found a festering bullet in his side,

> a .22 that slid between the bronze scales his feathers were.

> We removed it and cleansed the wound.

>

>   Finally he ate the rotten gophers I trapped and prepared

> for him.  Even at first, he drank a lot of water.  My dog seemed

> frighted of him

>

>         They smell sweet

>            meat is dry on their talons

>

>         The very opposite of

>            death

>

>         bird of re-birth

>            Buzzard

>

>         meat is rotten made

>            Sweet again and

>

>         lean, unkillable, wing-locked

>            soarer til he's but a

>

>         speck in the highest sky

>             infallible

>

>         eye finds Feast! on

>             baked concrete

>

>         free!

>

>         squashed rabbit ripened:

>            our good cheese

>

> (to keep the highways clean, and bother no Being)

>

>         Prqises Gentle Tamalpais

>    Perfect in Wisdom and Beauty of the

>            sweetes water

>          and the soaring birds

>

>     great seas at the feet of thy cliffs.

>

> Hear my last Will & Testament

>

>         Among my friends there shall  always be

>         one with proper instructions

>         for my continuance.

>

>                 Let no one grieve.

>                 I shall have used it all up

>                 used up ever bit of it.

>

>                 What an extravagance!

>                 What a relief!

>

>         On a marked rock, follwing his orders,

>         place my meat.

>

>                 All care must be taken not to

>                 frighten the natives of this

>                 barbarous land, who

>                 will not let us die, even

>                 as we wish..

>

>         With proper ceremony disembowel what I

>         no longer need, that it might more quickly

>         rot and tempt

>

>         my new form.

>

> (as one who hit one with  .22 myself)

> J. STauffer

 

thanks a lot James.

 

"In a little hilltop village

they gambled for my clothes

I bargained for salvation

And they gave me a lethal dose

I offered up my innocence

And got repaid with scorn

'Come in she said i'll give you

Shelter from the Storm"

        -- Robert Zimmerman

 

I'd pretty much figured this thread was flushed down the terminal sewer

-- hope somebody else will join the fray.  Bentz????

 

dbr

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 9 Oct 1997 10:28:49 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Burroughs piece/ Current posting format/Topcat

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Jonathan Pickle wrote:

>

> Okay, this cat bouncing around my screen is great.

 

I'm a cricket not a cat!

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 9 Oct 1997 11:42:07 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gary Mex Glazner <PoetMex@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Dana's request for SF Ideas

 

Dear Dana and Beat List,

 

Here are some interesting places to

visit while in San Francisco, and a short review

of the Six Gallery Reading (held 42 years later)

and what about Chuck...

 

Starting at City Lights 261 Columbus @ Broadway

Cool old posters and broadsides,

huge selection of poetry...

(By the way Beat Literature is upstairs

Bukowski has his own section down stairs)

 

Just across Kerouac Alley

at 255 Columbus is Vesuvio's

On the wall to the left as you walk

in are photos of poets. Dylan Thomas

once drank here after a reading.

A hang out for beat writers, Kerouac

once spent the night getting drunk and

calling Henry Miller, (who he was supposed

to be on his way to see) every hour or so

telling him he was on the way, they never met.

 

Across Columbus @ #12 Adler Alley

is Spec's still a poet hang out

with interesting memorabilia

from the beat era on the walls.

 

Walk up Columbus turn right on Broadway

walk two blocks turn left

you will find at 1010 Montgomery

the apt. building where Ginsberg

lived from Feb 3rd to Sep 6th 1955

and wrote "Howl". Light a candle, spin around

look for the best minds of your...

 

Go back down Broadway to Columbus

turn right you will find Green St.

Go a half a block to

the corner of Green and Vallejo

at 605 Vallejo is Caffe Trieste

You can still find poets here,

Ask around for Jack Hershman,

a big burly madman always ready

to talk poems and politics.

 

Continue down Green Street

576 Green was the sight of the

Cellar where Rexroth and Ferlingetthi

recorded with jazz musicians.

548 Green Gino and Carlo's

a Jack Spicer hangout.

 

1353 Grant and Green

 now the Lost and Found

Saloon in the 50's was the

Coffee Gallery home of many poetry

readings.

 

Continue down Green to Union, turn right

go up to the top of the hill

At the Corner of Union and

Montgomery in an old wood frame

building Gregory Corso lived

in the 70's. Turn left on Montgomery

go a block and a

half here you find the Filbert

Steps, turn right and walk down

into turn of the century San Francisco

a neighborhood accessible only

by a steep wooden stair case,

half way down is the Filbert

Garden, yesterday I saw a

flock of wild parrots green with bright

red heads, chased by a hawk.

Walk back up the Stairs

and continue up to Coit Tower

Here you will find sweeping views of the Bay.

Inside Coit Tower are murals

painted in the 30's, see

if you can find the book by

Rexroth on the book case

in one of the murals.

Here is the opening of

Corso's poem Ode to

Coit Tower from Gasoline.

"O anti-verdurous phallic were't

not for your pouring height looming in tears

like a sick tree or your ever-gaudy-comfort

jabbing your city's much wrinkled sky you's

seem an absurd Babel squatting before mortal millions....

>From here you are on your own.

 

There is one more address you might like to check out

(20 blocks or so from North Beach)

3119 Filmore the sight of the Six Gallery

where Ginsberg first read "Howl"

Last night there was a reading held there

as commemoration of the Gallery and as a

of memorial to Ginsberg.

 

The organizer/poet Jack Foley, has come into possession

a post card that Ginsberg made to announce the

reading with the Date of Oct. 7th, 1955. Many books

about the beats have other dates for the event,

it appears that in finding the post card, Jack has the

scoop.

 

The sight is now the home of "Silk Roads"

which sells carpets. Stacks of flying carpets with little buddhas

and Hindu statues filling the shelves, in the front window

a collection of smooth phallic stones (Lingums Sp?)

Da Mayor declared it "Six Gallery Day" in San Francisco,

 

Marc Olmsted, read a poem of hearing of Ginsberg's death

while on a meditation retreat was very moving,

especially sweet was the part where Ginsberg, when

calling to tell Marc he was dying told him

how good Marc had been to him over the years,

fantastic on his death bed the poet remembers to

thank his students for their kindness.

 

Also intriguing was Neeli Cherkovski, he had just returned

from a reading in Mexico City. He turned his poem about

a museum he visited into an exploration of his soul, his

mind becoming the rooms of the museum and his

thoughts the artifacts.

 

The evening closed with the true beat style of Q.R. Hand

Who bopped and wailed with his partner Reginald Lockett.

Q.R. looks and sound like he stepped out of the 50's.

He can even pull off wearing sandels.

 

Neeli wrote "Hank" the biography

of Bukowski, when I asked him if he thought Bukowski

was a beat writer, He laughed and said, "Bukowski, hated

the beats, although he was the same age, he started writing

poetry much later, his themes were different. No he is definitely

not beat." Then Joyce Jenkins of Poetry Flash said, "Bukowski

wasn't beat, he was postal!"

 

There was for me a huge shadow over the event

40 years later, the poets still trying to measure

up to that night so long ago....

 

love and flowers in my hair,

Gary Mex Glazner

85 Stanyan Street and other Sorrows

P.S. Addresses, and beat stories are from Don Herron's

The Literary World of San Francisco

published by City Lights Books

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 9 Oct 1997 10:57:02 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Burroughs piece/ Current posting format/Topcat

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Jonathan Pickle wrote:

>

> Okay, this cat bouncing around my screen is great. He reminds me of NC who

> could jump around from place to place yet could in an instant go to sleep.

 

sleep is just a state of mind really now isn't it.  I'm no NC though i

have about fifteen wonderful relatives in the Denver area and somewhere

in Golden in a backyard is the grave of Uncle Jake's old dog.

 

and i've been to Ogden.  Ogden Utah not the Ogden theatre on Colfax in

Denver.  Well actually my friend John took me to see George Clinton live

at the Ogden theatre last December and i gave him all my WSB books for

Hannukah(sp?).  And i have a great big friend in Odgen named Bear.  Last

time i was in Ogden i flew a couple of kids to the DSR-TKA National

Debate tournament at Weber State.  Beautiful view of the mountains

walking out of the Weber library.  I remember that i found a GREAT GREAT

used record store there somewhere.  Now if i just had a turntable

<grin>  oh ... what was i saying ... maybe it's time for a nap <yup>

 

dbr

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 9 Oct 1997 11:00:16 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Dana's request for SF Ideas

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Gary Mex Glazner wrote:

>

> Dear Dana and Beat List,

>

> Here are some interesting places to

> visit while in San Francisco, and a short review

> of the Six Gallery Reading (held 42 years later)

> and what about Chuck...

>

> Starting at City Lights 261 Columbus @ Broadway

> Cool old posters and broadsides,

> huge selection of poetry...

> (By the way Beat Literature is upstairs

> Bukowski has his own section down stairs)

>

> Just across Kerouac Alley

> at 255 Columbus is Vesuvio's

> On the wall to the left as you walk

> in are photos of poets. Dylan Thomas

> once drank here after a reading.

> A hang out for beat writers, Kerouac

> once spent the night getting drunk and

> calling Henry Miller, (who he was supposed

> to be on his way to see) every hour or so

> telling him he was on the way, they never met.

>

> Across Columbus @ #12 Adler Alley

> is Spec's still a poet hang out

> with interesting memorabilia

> from the beat era on the walls.

>

> Walk up Columbus turn right on Broadway

> walk two blocks turn left

> you will find at 1010 Montgomery

> the apt. building where Ginsberg

> lived from Feb 3rd to Sep 6th 1955

> and wrote "Howl". Light a candle, spin around

> look for the best minds of your...

>

> Go back down Broadway to Columbus

> turn right you will find Green St.

> Go a half a block to

> the corner of Green and Vallejo

> at 605 Vallejo is Caffe Trieste

> You can still find poets here,

> Ask around for Jack Hershman,

> a big burly madman always ready

> to talk poems and politics.

>

> Continue down Green Street

> 576 Green was the sight of the

> Cellar where Rexroth and Ferlingetthi

> recorded with jazz musicians.

> 548 Green Gino and Carlo's

> a Jack Spicer hangout.

>

> 1353 Grant and Green

>  now the Lost and Found

> Saloon in the 50's was the

> Coffee Gallery home of many poetry

> readings.

>

> Continue down Green to Union, turn right

> go up to the top of the hill

> At the Corner of Union and

> Montgomery in an old wood frame

> building Gregory Corso lived

> in the 70's. Turn left on Montgomery

> go a block and a

> half here you find the Filbert

> Steps, turn right and walk down

> into turn of the century San Francisco

> a neighborhood accessible only

> by a steep wooden stair case,

> half way down is the Filbert

> Garden, yesterday I saw a

> flock of wild parrots green with bright

> red heads, chased by a hawk.

> Walk back up the Stairs

> and continue up to Coit Tower

> Here you will find sweeping views of the Bay.

> Inside Coit Tower are murals

> painted in the 30's, see

> if you can find the book by

> Rexroth on the book case

> in one of the murals.

> Here is the opening of

> Corso's poem Ode to

> Coit Tower from Gasoline.

> "O anti-verdurous phallic were't

> not for your pouring height looming in tears

> like a sick tree or your ever-gaudy-comfort

> jabbing your city's much wrinkled sky you's

> seem an absurd Babel squatting before mortal millions....

> >From here you are on your own.

>

> There is one more address you might like to check out

> (20 blocks or so from North Beach)

> 3119 Filmore the sight of the Six Gallery

> where Ginsberg first read "Howl"

> Last night there was a reading held there

> as commemoration of the Gallery and as a

> of memorial to Ginsberg.

>

> The organizer/poet Jack Foley, has come into possession

> a post card that Ginsberg made to announce the

> reading with the Date of Oct. 7th, 1955. Many books

> about the beats have other dates for the event,

> it appears that in finding the post card, Jack has the

> scoop.

>

> The sight is now the home of "Silk Roads"

> which sells carpets. Stacks of flying carpets with little buddhas

> and Hindu statues filling the shelves, in the front window

> a collection of smooth phallic stones (Lingums Sp?)

> Da Mayor declared it "Six Gallery Day" in San Francisco,

>

> Marc Olmsted, read a poem of hearing of Ginsberg's death

> while on a meditation retreat was very moving,

> especially sweet was the part where Ginsberg, when

> calling to tell Marc he was dying told him

> how good Marc had been to him over the years,

> fantastic on his death bed the poet remembers to

> thank his students for their kindness.

>

> Also intriguing was Neeli Cherkovski, he had just returned

> from a reading in Mexico City. He turned his poem about

> a museum he visited into an exploration of his soul, his

> mind becoming the rooms of the museum and his

> thoughts the artifacts.

>

> The evening closed with the true beat style of Q.R. Hand

> Who bopped and wailed with his partner Reginald Lockett.

> Q.R. looks and sound like he stepped out of the 50's.

> He can even pull off wearing sandels.

>

> Neeli wrote "Hank" the biography

> of Bukowski, when I asked him if he thought Bukowski

> was a beat writer, He laughed and said, "Bukowski, hated

> the beats, although he was the same age, he started writing

> poetry much later, his themes were different. No he is definitely

> not beat." Then Joyce Jenkins of Poetry Flash said, "Bukowski

> wasn't beat, he was postal!"

>

> There was for me a huge shadow over the event

> 40 years later, the poets still trying to measure

> up to that night so long ago....

>

> love and flowers in my hair,

> Gary Mex Glazner

> 85 Stanyan Street and other Sorrows

> P.S. Addresses, and beat stories are from Don Herron's

> The Literary World of San Francisco

> published by City Lights Books

 

WOW ... San Francisco sounds like a great place.  Was there when i was

six or so and all i remember are steep steep streets and a mime at the

Fisherman's Wharf.

 

But are these places real???  I'm skeptical of it all!!!  PROVE these

things exist to someone who lives in OZ.

 

(anybody wishing to send fun photographs my way -- feel free)

 

david rhaesa

nita #23

500 east crawford st.

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 9 Oct 1997 00:35:03 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Let's Discuss Something

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Let me take a stab at getting this list back into discussion mode.  We

have not yet discussed Howl, something we started talking about a few

months ago.

 

I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving

        hysterical naked

dragging themselves through the Negro streets at dawn looking for an

        angry fix,

angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the

        starry dynamo in the machinery of night,

who poverty and tatters and hollow-eyed and high sat up smoking in the

        supernatural darkness of cold-water flats floating across the

        tops of cities contemplating jazz,

who bared their brains to Heaven under the El and saw Mohammedan

        angels staggering on tenement roofs illuminated

who passes through universities with radient cool eyes hallucinating

        Arkansas and Blake-light tragedy among the scholars of money and

        war

 

Howl still speaks to me absolutely as clearly as it did the first time I

read those beginning lines twenty years ago.  There is something not only

about the power of the statement but the rhythm of the language that

makes it so almost explosive.  In my mind, the best beginning of any

poem, ever (someone out there is surely going to disagree with that,

aren't you) And where are we now in terms of not only the literal madness

of Carl Solomon and Naomi Ginsberg but the madness that has defined us,

the madness of America as a culture?  Is there any one of you who cannot

identify with Howl?  Perhaps the scholars of war are now the scholars of

money.  Perhaps the halluncinating has now become our natural state, our

consciousness altered by technology more than drugs.  I would say that in

the forty years since this poem was written it is still defining the

state of America and the state of our individual lives.  Are we still not

burning, searching, for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry

dynamo in the machinery of night?  Isn't that what draws us to the beats?

DC

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 9 Oct 1997 11:38:34 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Dana Lee Kober <dana@SPIDERLINE.COM>

Subject:      SF

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

Thanks to you all who replied regarding my request for San Fransisco

ideas, I recieved quite a response.  I should have no problem finding

things to do for five days :)

 

Dana

 

PS.  dbr--hey man *calm* *down*!

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 9 Oct 1997 12:41:44 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Beat-l traffic

 

Every list has its ebb and flow.  Hang around, things will pick up again.  I pl

an a long post on my trip to Lowell.  Anyone else have any comments on the week

end?

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 9 Oct 1997 11:54:21 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      And why did he leave salina out of the Vortex??(Re: Let's Discuss

              Something)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

McPherson is twenty minutes south of me and Abilene twenty miles east of

me.  There are a few backroads that can take you through from McPherson

to Abilene and miss Salina.  You'd get to see Canton and Galva and their

combined high school Canton/Galva (mcpherson's high school mascot is

appropriately the BULLDOGS by the way).  But most of the backroads

unless you know them well will miss Abilene and you'll leave McPherson

and wind around until you hit Junction City or if you turn a bit East it

would be Council Grove a wonderfully historicaly place.

 

 

Diane Carter wrote:

>

> Let me take a stab at getting this list back into discussion mode.  We

> have not yet discussed Howl, something we started talking about a few

> months ago.

>

> I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving

>         hysterical naked

 

my experience in the 90s at the Fransican Hilton and other "special

places" would not be the "best minds" but the biggest hearts and instead

of hysterical naked it would be "chi disintegrated"....

>

> Howl still speaks to me absolutely as clearly as it did the first time I

> read those beginning lines twenty years ago.  There is something not only

> about the power of the statement but the rhythm of the language that

> makes it so almost explosive.  In my mind, the best beginning of any

> poem, ever (someone out there is surely going to disagree with that,

> aren't you)

 

i'll disagree.  Wonderful wonderful but not more than an F-4 tornado.

Certainly not a f-5 finger of god twister :)

 

 

 And where are we now in terms of not only the literal madness

 

coming along long way i would say...schizophrenic neighbor who would

have been lobotomized before just walked upstairs to check her mailbox

(which was empty of course -- but one can always hope can't we) she was

dressed in BRIGHT BRIGHT purple and her hair was wet.  I believe it was

the first time she had washed it in three months.  Her name is GLORIA

and i used to live next door to her and hear her screaming at people who

weren't in her apartment.  The only time i got worried and called the

landlord was when i DIDN"T HEAR her screaming for three days.  I

suddenly became terribly afraid that Gloria had decided to end it all.

Fortunately she was at the STATE hospital getting some help.... (i think

U2 should dedicate their version of GLORIA to her BTW :))  [Listening to

Bob ... singing unplugged "How does it feel to be on your own with no

direction home like a complete unknown like a rolling stone.]  Goodness

what a statement about madness today.  Deinstitutionalization in mental

health was a wonderfu "liberal" idea but "nobody taught them how to live

out on the street" and their stones are often not rolling but rather

stopped solid in isolation and loneliness :)

 

> of Carl Solomon and Naomi Ginsberg but the madness that has defined us,

> the madness of America as a culture?

 

Have been reading a book lately by a dude named James and have been

quite obsessed for sometime now with a dead character named RUDY.  Today

i was looking at a particular quotation and said My doesn't RUDY just

represent America a bit too well????

 

 

  Is there any one of you who cannot

> identify with Howl?

 

It is a bit bitter for me.

 

Perhaps the scholars of war are now the scholars of

> money.  Perhaps the halluncinating has now become our natural state, our

> consciousness altered by technology more than drugs.  I would say that in

> the forty years since this poem was written it is still defining the

> state of America and the state of our individual lives.  Are we still not

> burning, searching, for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry

> dynamo in the machinery of night?  Isn't that what draws us to the beats?

> DC

> DC

 

Excellent questions and i believe that you may have gotten more than one

little stone rolling along ....

 

how does it feel

to be out on your own

no direction home

like a compleat unknown

like a rolling stone

 

understanding, love and peace (and in that ORDER!)

 

dbr

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 9 Oct 1997 11:55:42 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Let's Discuss Something

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Diane Carter wrote:

>

> Let me take a stab at getting this list back into discussion mode.  We

> have not yet discussed Howl, something we started talking about a few

> months ago.

>

> I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving

>         hysterical naked

> dragging themselves through the Negro streets at dawn looking for an

>         angry fix,

> angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the

>         starry dynamo in the machinery of night,

> who poverty and tatters and hollow-eyed and high sat up smoking in the

>         supernatural darkness of cold-water flats floating across the

>         tops of cities contemplating jazz,

> who bared their brains to Heaven under the El and saw Mohammedan

>         angels staggering on tenement roofs illuminated

> who passes through universities with radient cool eyes hallucinating

>         Arkansas and Blake-light tragedy among the scholars of money and

>         war

>

> Howl still speaks to me absolutely as clearly as it did the first time I

> read those beginning lines twenty years ago.  There is something not only

> about the power of the statement but the rhythm of the language that

> makes it so almost explosive.  In my mind, the best beginning of any

> poem, ever (someone out there is surely going to disagree with that,

> aren't you) And where are we now in terms of not only the literal madness

> of Carl Solomon and Naomi Ginsberg but the madness that has defined us,

> the madness of America as a culture?  Is there any one of you who cannot

> identify with Howl?  Perhaps the scholars of war are now the scholars of

> money.  Perhaps the halluncinating has now become our natural state, our

> consciousness altered by technology more than drugs.  I would say that in

> the forty years since this poem was written it is still defining the

> state of America and the state of our individual lives.  Are we still not

> burning, searching, for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry

> dynamo in the machinery of night?  Isn't that what draws us to the beats?

> DC

> DC

 

WOW WOW WOW  GREAT GREAT POST!!!

 

Could you give brief biographical information on that opening section in

a few days?  Who are these best minds and why were they the best?  What

is meant exactly by DESTROYED! ????

 

take care,

david

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 9 Oct 1997 13:06:35 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jonathan Pickle <jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>

Subject:      THE STATE OF MADDNESS

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

 And where are we now in terms of not only the literal madness

of Carl Solomon and Naomi Ginsberg but the madness that has defined us,

the madness of America as a culture?

 

America seems to have always prided itself on its maddness.  Ceaselessly we

drone out life for the sake of the mind manipulation of the media and

politicians who are, seemingly, under no obligation to be accountable.

While America as an idea has amazing potential, it is being diminished by

the consuming virus of complacency with mainstream culture.  The times have

changed relatively little since the day Allen Ginsberg scribbled these

lines.  A few laws have changed and a few people have died in the fight,

but all in all the hysteria of life goes on.  That is why Howl is such a

timeless work - sadly enough it must always be thought to be relavant.  I

by no means think it is less valuble, but the rage against contemporary

society that Howl symbolizes will always be there.  The Beats were tired of

society, so they dropped out and railed against it.  It will be done again

as it has been, and will be done for thousands of years ad infinitum.  The

state of American maddness is the same - our image of it has only slightly

changed.

 

Jon

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 9 Oct 1997 12:30:45 -0500

Reply-To:     vorys@concentric.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         vorys <vorys@CONCENTRIC.NET>

Subject:      Re: Madness/Howl

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Diane Carter wrote:

>

> Howl still speaks to me absolutely as clearly as it did the first time I

> read those beginning lines twenty years ago.  There is something not only

> about the power of the statement but the rhythm of the language that

> makes it so almost explosive.  In my mind, the best beginning of any

> poem, ever (someone out there is surely going to disagree with that,

> aren't you) And where are we now in terms of not only the literal madness

> of Carl Solomon and Naomi Ginsberg but the madness that has defined us,

> the madness of America as a culture?  Is there any one of you who cannot

> identify with Howl?  Perhaps the scholars of war are now the scholars of

> money.  Perhaps the halluncinating has now become our natural state, our

> consciousness altered by technology more than drugs.  I would say that in

> the forty years since this poem was written it is still defining the

> state of America and the state of our individual lives.  Are we still not

> burning, searching, for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry

> dynamo in the machinery of night?  Isn't that what draws us to the beats?

> DC

> DC

 

Carl Solomon was not "mad". He and Ginsberg would have been offended by

the term. Allen always felt a little guilty over hanging that burden on

Carl. Carl Solomon and my wife had a steady correspondence until his

death. He was lucid and funny to the end. ie. Ginsberg to hospitalized

Carl Solomon ..."How are you?"  Carl responded ... " I'm dying but I

have life insurance."

 

Re:Howl ... It's a wonderful poem and period piece. The original beats

have transcended it by living through it.