=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:20:49 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>

Subject:      Re: The Life and Times of Allen Ginsberg

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.HPP.3.93.970911142727.18282A-100000@holmes.ipfw.indiana.edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, Jennifer Thompson wrote:

 

> > Just letting everyone know that PBS will be showing this next Wednesday at

> > 10.  Check local listings yadda yadda yadda.....

 

> 10 a.m. or p.m.?

 

In the pm, sorry to not make that clear.

 

------------------

Alex Howard  (704)264-8259                    Appalachian State University

kh14586@am.appstate.edu                       P.O. Box 12149

http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586             Boone, NC  28608

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:26:47 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: list

Mime-Version: 1.0

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At 04:44 PM 9/11/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Rinaldo,

>You should also add Howard Hart to your list.

>Cordially,

>Michael Skau

>9/11/97

>

>

Hell, why not add Bret Harte, Moss Hart

and Harte Crain?

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:56:41 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Iowa connecting

Mime-Version: 1.0

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     Be sure to have some apple pie and ice cream!

 

 

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________

Subject: Iowa connecting

Author:  "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> at Internet

Date:    9/11/97 2:01 PM

 

 

I'm heading out for a two week reading tour of Iowa (not hitchhiking!)

Sept. 25 through Oct. 9. 10 - 12 readings around the state. Anyone on the

list from there? Anyone want to connect out in mid-America? I'll send more

info to anyone interested.

 

Michael

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:36:37 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jonathan Pickle <jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Visions of America

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 04:43 PM 9/11/97 -0500, you wrote:

>On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, chenxiao wrote:

>

>> Folks over there, is hitchhiking still easy thing in this continent as

in the

>>  OTR time?

>>

>> Hitchhike to America, hitchhike to moon;

>> with bag empty, with hair long.

>>

>> ciao

>> yan

>>

>I'm afraid not, Yan.  It's illegal in many places.  Most depressing thing

>in the world is to see a road sign with a thumb up held with a big red

>slash across it.  and you read or hear about people getting killed, raped

>. . . all the time .  I was lucky enough to hitch 1600 miles down the

>Alaskan-Highway last year, through Canada.  It was fairly easy for us.

>But Canada and Alaska are a lot different than the rest of the U.S.

>

>i like your little poem.  reminds me of Jack's "Visions of America."

>

>-matt

>

>

Matt - Ive been searching for "Visions of America" for two years and cant

seem to find it except through this internet bookdealer who wants 125

dollars for it which of course I don't have.  Do you know of a way of how I

could get it cheeper?

 

 

                                                                -Jon

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:26:18 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: hitchhiking

 

In a message dated 97-09-11 17:58:54 EDT, we write:

 

<< ><< one may hitch-hike.  but it's not safe anymore. >>

 >

 >it's safe if i'm the one picking you up.

 >

 >ddr

 >

 >

 How can we be sure?  Who knows what you have done in

 your secret life.

 

 Mike Rice

 

<<<

 

well, mike... maybe YOU wouldn't be safe... hee hee hee

 

ddr

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:36:31 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: thumbs up

 

In a message dated 97-09-11 15:38:07 EDT, patricia wrote:

 

<<

 Diane De Rooy wrote:

 > I say, Let's all get out there and hitch a ride and change "reality..."

 >

 > ddr

 

 I hitched probably over 200,000 miles over the years between 1967 and

 1979.

 

hey I know this is not beat related but I found just loved thinking about

those trips,

p

 >>

 

I don't know about everyone else, but I've thoroughly enjoyed this thread...

and I think hitching is completely Beat-related, and "thumbs up" is a great

title for your letter. Wish I'd thought of it...

 

So, patricia, what's the best route to hitch from Seattle to where you are?

 

diane

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:05:42 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Crickets

MIME-Version: 1.0

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David:

 

I found the crickets.  In an ad for a Nancy Griffith show it says:

 

Horizon presents

 

An Evening with

 

NANCI GRIFFITH & the Blue Moon Orchestra

featuring THE CRICKETS

 

So, at least you know that they are in good hands and making a wonderful

folk sound.

 

Peace,

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:18:00 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Hitchhiking

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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I did more than my share in 1970-71.   But, I don't remember much really

being fun.  It was a sense of adventure and had a cool trip full of

conincidences once.  We were hitching from Thomasville GA to Bushkill

Falls PA for a rock festival, Harmonyville.  We got to Atlanta and slept

under some pine trees on the side of the road.  We went down to a 76

truck stop and got breakfast.  We started talking to this middle aged

man. He was up drinking all night and was going to head to the Atlanta

Raceway for a stock car race.  We told him what we were doing and he got

that "crazy" look in his eyes.  He said, damn, I always wanted to do

something like that.  He got in his car and decided to take us to

Greenville SC and come back for the race.

 

When we got to Greenville he said, hell, I always wanted to do something

crazy like this.  I'm gonna take you to Pennsylvania.  I was behind the

wheel and drove his car all the way from Atlanta to Philadelphia.  Since

it was the days before atms, he had his girl friend wire him money in

Washington DC.  As we rode around the Western Union office, we thought,

man, I can't believe he would let us three kids drive his car around

like this in DC.

 

When we got to PA, the festival was cancelled.  Sly Stone was late for a

show in Illinois and when he didn't come out the kids had a riot.  A

bunch of festivals got canceled.  We chose to go to this one instead of

one in VA.  At the one in VA, it rained a lot and they had a show

despite the ban.  I believe "Candles in the Rain" by Melanie and "Who'll

Stop the Rain" by CCR may have been inspired by that show.  Anyways, he

took us back to Atlanta.

 

His occupation was a mechanic.  But he made his real money turning back

odometers for used car dealers.

 

A pretty cool ride.

 

But, despite this great trip, I don't really thinking hitching was that

great an idea.

 

Peace,

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:35:17 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Crickets

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

>

> David:

>

> I found the crickets.  In an ad for a Nancy Griffith show it says:

>

> Horizon presents

>

> An Evening with

>

> NANCI GRIFFITH & the Blue Moon Orchestra

> featuring THE CRICKETS

>

> So, at least you know that they are in good hands and making a wonderful

> folk sound.

>

> Peace,

> --

> Bentz

> bocelts@scsn.net

>

> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

 

that sounds like Nancy ... used to be on her wavelength ever few weeks

back in iowa city ... the Mill was kinda Nancy griffith kinda place ...

i think greg browne or green or something or other too.  used to goof

off at open mike nites there with guitar and persecuting music for free

... crowd favourite was acoustic-punk-angst-version of johndenver

version of Leavin on a jet plane!

 

dbr

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:47:29 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>

Subject:      kerouac timeline

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

As I did up a timeline of Kerouac's life for class on Monday, I figured

"whatthehell", did some quick coding in my local web editor (knew those

things were good for something), and put it up on my Kerouac page.  If

anyone gets the chance/desire, I'd love for some double checking on my

dates and such; as my sources conflicted a bit on some of the "began

working on suchandsuchnovel", "moved to suchandsuchplace", and "ran

whilly-nilly to Mexico" dates.  Order of events of each year may be a

bit skewed as well.  I'd appreciate the lowdown if anyone finds errors.

 

http://porter.appstate.edu/~kh14586/links/beats/kerouac/timeline.html

 

------------------

Alex Howard  (704)264-8259                    Appalachian State University

kh14586@am.appstate.edu                       P.O. Box 12149

http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586             Boone, NC  28608

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:57:21 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: update 10 sep 1997 Beat SuperNova  (Beats:The List)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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Jym Mooney wrote:

 . . .the only *true* Beat

> writers had to have been mentioned in "Howl" (which is rather limiting

> things to Kerouac, Huncke, Cassady, Carr, Solomon, Burroughs, and, oddly

> enough, Tuli Kupferburg).

 

There are times for narrow definitions and times for broad ones.  On

this list I think broad is helpful, although there are some on this list

that to my mind are clearly out, but this is democracy.  There are lots

of people on the list who would have hated like hell to be called "Beat"

(Jack Spicer is a good example, or Bukowski) but because of their time

and associations are going to be called Beat whether they like it or

not.  "Beat" was Allan and Jack's term really, and I think other writers

resented being dragged into that camp feeling that they had their own

thing going. Allan was a wonderful promoter.  But narrowly defined Beats

are all dead and gone now.  Certainly we can borrow the term and give it

somewhat wider application without watering it down beyond all

usefullness

 

J. Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Sep 1997 22:32:12 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Czarnecki <peent@SERVTECH.COM>

Subject:      Re: Iowa connecting

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

MATT HANNAN wrote:

 

>     Be sure to have some apple pie and ice cream!

>

>

 

I will, and know just the place, The Barn Cafe, Dike, Iowa where a sign in

entranceway proclaims:

 

OFFICIAL AGRICULTURAL SEMINAR

HELD HERE DAILY

 

Michael

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:25:34 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: hitchhiking

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> Leon Tabory wrote:

> Was this the point Diane? Scary looking people never get invited for a

> ride?

>

> My earlier response was my sadness that Jack was so unhappy that he

> looked

> at the dark side  that he had for whatever reasons to wallow in his

> depressed outlook where the bright things that were happening were not

> visible to him. That area, at that time, was just beautiful hitchiking

> land.

> I know because I was a frequent rider on that coast highway. That was

> Big

> Sur area he was speaking of, no and a couple of years more than 32?

 

I read it as meaning that he felt America was changing even then, but if

you hitchhiked in the same area at about the same time and didn't feel

it, then perhaps this is another way in which his depression caused him

to see the darker side of things.  Jack was "sick of life" through most

of Big Sur and many of his older joys (and I would see hitchhiking as one

of them) no longer held much meaning for him.

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:11:49 -0700

Reply-To:     sgglbg@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Stanley & Laurie Gonzalez <sgglbg@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: AG as MONEY Magazine Publisher?

Comments: To: Jym Mooney <vmooney@execpc.com>

Comments: cc: mongo.bearwolf@Dartmouth.EDU

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Jym Mooney wrote:

>

> She is thinking of RALPH GINZBURG, not our Allen.  I remember his MONEY

> magazine, too.

>

> > >Subject: Re: A.G. as MONEY magazine publisher

> >

> > In the mid-1960s for over a year, Allen Ginsberg (the very same, I am

> > sure) offered from a New York addresss via a full-page color ad in the

> > comics pages of the San Francisco Chronicle (such ads were often placed

> > in the comics during the 60's)--for $5 per year or $10 for a "lifetime

> > subscription", a monthly or semi-monthly publication called MONEY or

> > YOUR MONEY or some such short title with MONEY in it.  It was the first

> > of its kind; a nearly identical version has recently started publishing

> > this year, edited and promoted by one Martin Edelston at a Boulder, CO

> > address, called Bottom Line/PERSONAL and deals with ways to save, make,

> > spend and otherwise get the best deal in every area of money management.

> >

> > MONEY claimed to be an inside report (what "they" DON'T want you to

> > know). I recall that (1) I paid $5 for one year, then renewed at $10

> > (for life) and it went out of business within a few months afterward

> > with no refund for remaining issues.  I am absolutely sure that this was

> > Allen Ginsberg's venture.  Any verification of that in your background

> > information on him?

> >

> >

> > Thanks in advance for providing this forum for informaiton exchange and,

> > in advance, for any info or assistance you can provide in response.

> >

> > Laurie (the "lbg" in sgglbg@pacbell.net)

> >

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you, Mongo, Bill and Jim for leading me to the right first name at

last and the correctly spelled last name.  Wonder what became of Ralph

G... Probably absconded with all of the "lifetime membership" monies

(for a couple of weeks in Mexico)!

               (.) (.)

                  .

Thanks again.   \___/  Laurie

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:51:27 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         chenxiao <xbchen@SUN.NANKAI.EDU.CN>

Subject:      Re: hitchhiking

 

I don't know how is hitchhiking in China. This summer I took a trip to northwest

 China, not hitchhiking but taking cheapest train and hotel room so that I can

 stay longer on the road. There is cool landscape. I encountered several poor

 people including a little begger girl, who has pure eyes and tender voice, and

 a old hobo thousands of miles away home, who picks up littered water or

 coca-cola bottles to earn money. I always wonder how those hobos survive with

 no money in pocket.

I should have stay a day or two with the old man. There are millions of hobos

 wandering around Chinese vast land. But I think they are different to hobos

 described by Beats writers, they send money back home whenever having any. Its

 sad thing.

 

west side of Yellow River,

desert is ahead,

stuck bicycle in mud,

saw footprints of mine on wet sand.

i am alone, haaaa i am alone.

 

Yan

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Sep 1997 23:21:53 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: update 10 sep 1997 Beat SuperNova  (Beats:The List)

Comments: To: stauffer@pacbell.net

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

James Stauffer wrote:

>

> Jym Mooney wrote:

>  . . .the only *true* Beat

> > writers had to have been mentioned in "Howl" (which is rather limiting

> > things to Kerouac, Huncke, Cassady, Carr, Solomon, Burroughs, and, oddly

> > enough, Tuli Kupferburg).

>

> There are times for narrow definitions and times for broad ones.  On

> this list I think broad is helpful, although there are some on this list

> that to my mind are clearly out, but this is democracy.  There are lots

> of people on the list who would have hated like hell to be called "Beat"

> (Jack Spicer is a good example, or Bukowski) but because of their time

> and associations are going to be called Beat whether they like it or

> not.  "Beat" was Allan and Jack's term really, and I think other writers

> resented being dragged into that camp feeling that they had their own

> thing going. Allan was a wonderful promoter.  But narrowly defined Beats

> are all dead and gone now.  Certainly we can borrow the term and give it

> somewhat wider application without watering it down beyond all

> usefullness

>

> J. Stauffer

 

Being somebody who is coming into this whole game fairly if not at a

moron status in terms of my level of ignorance, the project of the

expanded list is helping me considerably in creating connections between

(as Lou Reed would say) "faces and names".  The list of the "CORE" Beats

is wonderful for providing focus and it seems like a decent idea to try

and draw lines of association that connect (like those old sex chains in

college) to one or more of these.  Perhaps this is a way of creating

some slight method to the madness of the entire definition game.  But

i'm one for letting quite a lot of madness flow.  Part of the

distinction in this thread seems to be the notion of Beats and Beat

Generation.  Certainly the DIRECT influences of the CORE Beats move far

beyond their initial little group.  There are many advantages to having

both lists.  The most obvious is that when newcomers come in -- as i did

-- relatively ignorant, there is material to examine without falling

into that dangerous thread of "What is Beat?" and the true but not

particularly helpful answer of "Rhubarb" (or was it "Dumpling!!?!!)...It

provides information both from a lens that is focused VERY VERY closely

on a selected group of Exemplar and of the Larger Literary Community

that is -- in computerese -- LINKED to the Core.

 

Just two thoughts as night falls in the Land where Eisenhower is still

thought to be President and the pledge of Allegiance a marvelous little

poem!

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:20:37 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: hitchhiking

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

chenxiao wrote:

>

> I don't know how is hitchhiking in China. This summer I took a trip to

> northwest

>  China, not hitchhiking but taking cheapest train and hotel room so

> that I can

>  stay longer on the road. There is cool landscape. I encountered

> several poor

>  people including a little begger girl, who has pure eyes and tender

> voice, and

>  a old hobo thousands of miles away home, who picks up littered water

> or

>  coca-cola bottles to earn money. I always wonder how those hobos

> survive with

>  no money in pocket.

> I should have stay a day or two with the old man. There are millions

> of hobos

>  wandering around Chinese vast land. But I think they are different to

> hobos

>  described by Beats writers, they send money back home whenever having

> any. Its

>  sad thing.

>

> west side of Yellow River,

> desert is ahead,

> stuck bicycle in mud,

> saw footprints of mine on wet sand.

> i am alone, haaaa i am alone.

>

> Yan

Yan:

 

Thanks for the cool post.

 

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 11 Sep 1997 23:24:34 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Iowa connecting

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Michael Czarnecki wrote:

>

> MATT HANNAN wrote:

>

> >     Be sure to have some apple pie and ice cream!

> >

> >

>

> I will, and know just the place, The Barn Cafe, Dike, Iowa where a sign in

> entranceway proclaims:

>

> OFFICIAL AGRICULTURAL SEMINAR

> HELD HERE DAILY

>

> Michael

 

MACHINESHED Interstate 80 Davenport Iowa, Northwest side of Town.  You

will see TRUE farmers!!!!!  (and some tourists)

 

If you dip below to the I-70 range ... consider a slide through salina

though not a lot to do here but watch the sunflowers.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:54:58 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: thumbs up

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Diane De Rooy wrote:

> So, patricia, what's the best route to hitch from Seattle to where you are?

>

> diane

my server is only working about 10 minutes every 4 hours. so here goes,

the best way to hitch from seattle to here is via mexico. of course that

is how i found canada.  Route and weather, lines and chance.

 

to respond to a variety of thoughts and messages

 

Jamie picked up the lesbians at a coop grocery in fayetteville, after

they disappeared with him , his money and his van, a tv they had hocked

turned out hot.  Jamie Grow was a hippies hippy, tales of him in Ohle's

"cows are freaky when they look at you; tales of the Kaw Valley Hemp

Pickers."

 

Inge is dead but i don't think he is beat!

 

Here in lawrence some of us have take the great rinaldo beat list and

made of list of the  works and we play match games (beat pursuit) bob

(the saint that is my husband) is the best.

 

Mike, I believe you are correct, I am not sure but I do believe Ted

Bundy did go on to murder more people ( in Florida) after he was in

Colorado.

 

Iowa, i would love to meet you, too, I am heading to texas for a couple

of weeks (end of Sept) ( i am driving), give us your  rough itinerary

and mayhaps we can share a cuppa.

 

now i will click on send and see.

p

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 01:08:31 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: list

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Mike Rice wrote:

>

> At 04:44 PM 9/11/97 -0500, you wrote:

> >Rinaldo,

> >You should also add Howard Hart to your list.

 

> >

> >

> Hell, why not add Bret Harte, Moss Hart

> and Harte Crain?

>

> Mike Rice

 

I certainly agree with adding howard Hart but as for bret, moss and

crain is this humor? i sure don't get this new humor.  i understand the

hart  refrain but are you disagreeing about Howard hart?

p

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 05:27:09 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         David Jones <71224.1465@COMPUSERVE.COM>

Subject:      Re: AG as MONEY Magazine Publisher?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

 

Ginzberg was a publisher who had been an editor at Esquire Magazine in the

fifties. In 1958 his "An Unhurried View of Erotica" was published. He

published the hardcover "Eros" magazine in the early sixties and became

something of a cause celebre over an obscenity case (involving an issue of

that publication) which went all the way to the US Supreme Court. He lost

the appeal and served time in prison in the seventies, then wrote

Castrated: My Eight Months in Prison. Before they locked him up, he

published Fact Magazine in the mid sixties, which was mildly beat in that

it published work by Rexroth and such, and "Avant Garde" magazine between

1968 and 1971, which was a high-end periodical noted for its graphics. I

seem to remember a later version of "Fact", and Ginzberg also put out a

series of newsletter style publications having to do with money saving and

other handy tips (as you have mentioned). One, published in the eighties,

had to do with getting Social Security payments.

 

I'm not sure if he's still alive.

 

- David

 

-----Original Message-----

From:   INTERNET:sgglbg@pacbell.net

Sent:   Thursday, September 11, 1997 20:46

To:     INTERNET:BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject:        Re: AG as MONEY Magazine Publisher?

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you, Mongo, Bill and Jim for leading me to the right first name at

last and the correctly spelled last name.  Wonder what became of Ralph

G... Probably absconded with all of the "lifetime membership" monies

(for a couple of weeks in Mexico)!

               (.) (.)

                  .

Thanks again.   \___/  Laurie

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 06:32:27 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: hitchhiking

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.LNX.3.95.970911181305.20530C-100000@devel.nacs.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

no, only easy thing to do now is hitchhike on the net; folks in chat rooms,

irc & at ends of internet connections still talk to strangers, pass ideas

along and take you for a ride.

_______

hi michael! loved the above, quoted from yr post! great analogy and reality

statement.

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 06:58:49 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: list

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 01:08 AM 9/12/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Mike Rice wrote:

>>

>> At 04:44 PM 9/11/97 -0500, you wrote:

>> >Rinaldo,

>> >You should also add Howard Hart to your list.

>

>> >

>> >

>> Hell, why not add Bret Harte, Moss Hart

>> and Harte Crain?

>>

>> Mike Rice

>

>I certainly agree with adding howard Hart but as for bret, moss and

>crain is this humor? i sure don't get this new humor.  i understand the

>hart  refrain but are you disagreeing about Howard hart?

>p

>

>

I don't know a lot of these people including Howard Hart.  I'm just sort

of gently mocking the wide world approach to beats.

 

MIke Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:05:04 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leo Jilk <ljilk@GUINAN.MPS.ORG>

Subject:      Re: update 10 sep 1997 Beat SuperNova  (Beats:The List)

In-Reply-To:  <3.0.1.32.19970910183952.006e5b5c@pop.gpnet.it>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I saw Larry eigner on the United States of Poetry on PBS. Can you tell me

more about him in connection with the beats. I don't know anything about

the Black MTn school.

 

leo

 

 

 

 

 

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so

certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."

 

                        --Bertrand Russel

 

"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so."

 

                --Douglas Adams

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 07:34:09 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: hitchhiking

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

 Hello Michael and everybody,

 

Well put I thought,  until I got to the +ACI-take you for a ride+ACI- bump on

 the

ride. I didn't know whether to take it as a  very serious warning, are you

sounding an alarm, or just playing around , watch out, it can happen, sort

of thing. I understand well how you got to watch out in this world where you

can find everywhere people willing and able to take you for a ride while

seeming to just give you one. Especially when it is free. Email associations

is as yet uncharted territory, all these strange possibilities, and

certainly subject to these pitfalls. Still in many ways harder to take one

for a ride on e-mail, than in FTF (face to face) associations. Or is it? Are

we ready for +ACI-I thought I was surfing the beat web and got taken for a

 ride+ACI-

stories? Any pointers for little red riding hoods, that give away the wolves

in surfers print? I am only half kidding.

 

Have a nice weekend everyone,

 

leon

 

l

 

leon

 

 

 

+AD4-On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, chenxiao wrote:

+AD4-

+AD4APg- Folks over there, is hitchhiking still easy thing in this continent as

 in

the

+AD4APg-  OTR time?

+AD4-

+AD4-no, only easy thing to do now is hitchhike on the net+ADs- folks in chat

 rooms,

+AD4-irc +ACY- at ends of internet connections still talk to strangers, pass

 ideas

+AD4-along and take you for a ride.

+AD4-

+AD4-

+AD4-email stutz+AEA-dsl.org  Copyright (c) 1997 Michael Stutz+ADs- this

 information is

+AD4APA-http://dsl.org/m/+AD4-  free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL, and as

 long

+AD4-                     as this sentence remains+ADs- it comes with absolutely

 NO

+AD4-                     WARRANTY+ADs- for details see

 +ADw-http://dsl.org/copyleft/+AD4-.

+AD4-.-

+AD4-

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:57:16 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Visions of America

 

In a message dated 97-09-12 06:30:44 EDT, you write:

 

<< >

 Matt - Ive been searching for "Visions of America" for two years and cant

 seem to find it except through this internet bookdealer who wants 125

 dollars for it which of course I don't have.  Do you know of a way of how I

 could get it cheeper?

  >>

 

Jon:

 

Lucky you - the publisher of "Visions of America" just happens to be a member

of this list....

 

I published Visions of America back in 1991 in a limited edition of a few

hundred copies. It was hand-printed and handbound - priced justifiably at

$125.00 per copy as a collector's item. It's sold out and out of print.

 

"Visions of America" consists of an excerpt from Kerouac's 1952 travel

notebook about driving through Arizona with Neal and Carolyn on the way to

Mexico City.

The excerpt is presented as a print which is frameable. The text is decorated

with artwork by Jack - everything previously unpublished. The print is housed

in a handbound hardcover folio case with Jack's facsimile signature on the

front.

 

The printer did a few proof copies for publisher's inspection and I still

have them here.

They are not numbered nor do they come in the hardcover case but the print is

the same. If anyone here on the Beat-L wants a copy, send me $20.00 plus $3

for shipping. MC/Visa/etc. Satisfaction guaranteed.

 

Jeffrey

Water Row Books

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:14:58 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: hitchhiking

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

 Hi mc,

 

I am rushing again. Am arranging to have Fridays off. but not yet today.

Please let me know if you got the check. I put it in the mail Saturday and

it may not have left until Sunday, but still it should have reached you. If

you did not get it yet, I will put a stop in the bank if it was not cashed

yet, and send you another one. I took the address from the return on the

envelope that you mailed the cassettes in.

 

Love

 

leon

 

+AD4-leon, thanks for the memory+ACE- being picked up by fellow fellaheens on

 the

+AD4-road usually led to tripping, toking, getting out and showing the sights to

+AD4-fellow voyagers interior and exterior

+AD4-mc

+AD4-Hey,  there was a time when we said inhale deeply, aaah, the breath was so

+AD4-fresh, pores opened up, dirt rolling off the skin, you could see it all

+AD4-around you, fresh faces with sparkling eyes, breathing out freely, taking

it

+AD4-all in, gentler everybody. Then came swallow it, wow, soaring spirits,

+AD4-mutual encouragement, a real pleasure to run into each other, the world was

+AD4-free for giving  and taking. Hitching a ride meant meeting new people,

+AD4-enjoying more the trip of life, getting more places with a little help from

+AD4-friends.

+AD4-.-

+AD4-

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:19:58 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         tyler peterson <bepeters@AA.NET>

Subject:      freight trains

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Does anybody on this list have an experiance with freight train hopping (for

current day routes and trains)  ?  If not does anyone know of any zines or

sites devoted to this type of "low-budget" travel  ?  America needs to

revamp its train system a la europe.  Much more effective/cheap over there.

I can't afford amtrak tickets.  Its ugly.

 

t.

 

 ===============================================================================

 

        "There ain't nuthin' in school they can't teach you on the streets"

                                        -The Straycats

        ===============================================================================

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 17:42:48 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Dufour <dufour@ULISSE.IT>

Subject:      R: freight trains

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

The only thing I Know is that is a very dangerous way of travelling: some

persons lost their legs under the weels trying to jump on the train.

 

Francesco

 

----------

> Da: tyler peterson <bepeters@AA.NET>

> A: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

> Oggetto: freight trains

> Data: venerdl 12 settembre 1997 17.19

>

> Does anybody on this list have an experiance with freight train hopping

(for

> current day routes and trains)  ?  If not does anyone know of any zines

or

> sites devoted to this type of "low-budget" travel  ?  America needs to

> revamp its train system a la europe.  Much more effective/cheap over

there.

> I can't afford amtrak tickets.  Its ugly.

>

> t.

>

>

 ===========================================================================

===

>

>         "There ain't nuthin' in school they can't teach you on the

streets"

>                                         -The Straycats

>

 ===========================================================================

===

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:50:01 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         der doc <der_doc@ROCKETMAIL.COM>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

 

I honestly don't see the point in all the argument over who is Beat

and who ain't.  Beats are Beat is Beat.  You know I know they know, as

long as we're all Beat that is.

 

 

 

===

visit my web site, <a

href="http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131">The Beat(en)

Regeneration</a>

(http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131)

for info on the Beat, Beatnik and Neo-Beat subcultures

 

 

 

 

 

 

_____________________________________________________________________

Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:46:48 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         der doc <der_doc@ROCKETMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: The Life and Times of Allen Ginsberg

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

 

===

visit my web site, <a

href="http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131">The Beat(en)

Regeneration</a>

(http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131)

for info on the Beat, Beatnik and Neo-Beat subcultures

 

 

 

 

 

---Jennifer Thompson <thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU> wrote:

>

> On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Alex Howard wrote:

>

> > Just letting everyone know that PBS will be showing this next

Wednesday at

> > 10.  Check local listings yadda yadda yadda.....

> >

> > Check out the pbs.org site.  They have a lot of stuff there.

> >

> > ------------------

> > Alex Howard  (704)264-8259                    Appalachian State

University

> > kh14586@am.appstate.edu                       P.O. Box 12149

> > http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586             Boone, NC  28608

> >

> 10 a.m. or p.m.?

> jt

>

 

I think it's a little late to find that out... considering that was

THIS LAST wednesday...

_____________________________________________________________________

Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:20:25 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: R: freight trains

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

In Mo. all trains stop in neuburg.  It is best to pick up your train in

a small town that acts as a switching station. to get on and off there,

don't use the big cities as your depot.  Both the hobo population and

the guards are rougher.  Avoid amtrak for unticketed riding.  Carry a

thermal ( metalic sheet camping blanket) Watch weight , go light.

Pick flat bed cars for easy exit, sometimes box cars are locked at

departure and can stay locked for days..  Switching stations can be

determined by track maps.

 

proverty is ugliest when you can't afford food or getting the cavity

filled but if you are unencumbered the old old story is

 

freedom and money don't necessarily travel together.

 

p

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:30:39 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         der doc <der_doc@ROCKETMAIL.COM>

Subject:      a little permission if you please...

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

 

I am a recent subscriber to Beat-L (just a few days right now) but I have

 noticed that the topic matter has been incredibly interesting.  In fact, so

 many words, sentences and fragments have jumped out at me so violently, I have

 taken to printing out my email.

Now this is the reason for me writing this.  When I print out the email, I cut

 it up into little snippets of words (sometimes phrases, sometimes whole

 sentences) and rearrange them into a reconstitution of parts of the original

 text which in no way resemble the original.  Yes, Uncle Bill has influenced me

 IMMENSELY.

Anyway, having done this, I find that I have an incredibly interesting piece of

 work left over and I was just wondering if the technique was cool with everyone

 else on Beat-L, as I may be cutting up anything that you say and mixing it in

 with a million other things.

If everything's cool with you guys, I hope to post these composite texts on <a

 href="http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131">my website</a> (see below).

So please, write me back and let me know what you think.

 

 

 

                                    Adam J Muszkiewicz

 

 

 

===

visit my web site, The Beat(en) Regeneration

(http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131)

for info on the Beat, Beatnik and Neo-Beat subcultures

 

 

 

 

 

<hr size=1>Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at <a

 href="http://www.rocketmail.com">http://www.rocketmail.com</a><br>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:46:39 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: update 10 sep 1997 Beat SuperNova  (Beats:The List)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

RACE --- wrote:

\the project of the

> expanded list is helping me considerably in creating connections between

> (as Lou Reed would say) "faces and names".  The list of the "CORE" Beats

> is wonderful for providing focus and it seems like a decent idea to try

> and draw lines of association that connect (like those old sex chains in

> college) to one or more of these.

 

 

David,

 

Perhaps you remember that six months or so ago, when you were disussing

Beat texts for high school, sa griffin and I tried to get going a list

of this sort with connections drawn and a geographical frame of

reference, to be developed in the style of the "Exploding Poem" we did

in memory of Ginsberg.   Didn't take off then, who knows why, but has

gotten a new incarnation with Rinaldo.  I think connections would be

very helpful, as well as at least a tag line identification and in the

case of artists, a principle work.  I consider myself at least

moderately well informed about this stuff and there are  some names that

have absolutely no associations for me, and names that don't (to my

mind) belong even under the most liberal rules--but it is in Rinaldo's

Venetian hands now and he will accept or reject the suggestions he

wishes.

 

J. Stauffer

J. Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:24:13 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jonathan Pickle <jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>

Subject:      Exactly

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

when the rocketman wrote:

 

>I honestly don't see the point in all the argument over who is Beat

>and who ain't.  Beats are Beat is Beat.  You know I know they know, as

>long as we're all Beat that is.

>

he got IT.  Beat doesn't come from a single era or group of people - its a

mindset that transcends lists and the sort.

Rinaldo, not that your list isn't great, but in the grander scheme of

everything in everything it really doesn't matter who is on the list.

 

                                                        -Jon

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:25:56 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jonathan Pickle <jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>

Subject:      Re: The Life and Times of Allen Ginsberg

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 08:46 AM 9/12/97 -0700, you wrote:

>===

>visit my web site, <a

>href="http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131">The Beat(en)

>Regeneration</a>

>(http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131)

>for info on the Beat, Beatnik and Neo-Beat subcultures

>

>

>

>

>

>---Jennifer Thompson <thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU> wrote:

>>

>> On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Alex Howard wrote:

>>

>> > Just letting everyone know that PBS will be showing this next

>Wednesday at

>> > 10.  Check local listings yadda yadda yadda.....

>> >

>> > Check out the pbs.org site.  They have a lot of stuff there.

>> >

>> > ------------------

>> > Alex Howard  (704)264-8259                    Appalachian State

>University

>> > kh14586@am.appstate.edu                       P.O. Box 12149

>> > http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586             Boone, NC  28608

>> >

>> 10 a.m. or p.m.?

>> jt

>>

>

>I think it's a little late to find that out... considering that was

>THIS LAST wednesday...

>_____________________________________________________________________

>Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com

>

Is it going to play again????

 

                                        -Jon

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:11:47 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jonathan Pickle <jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Just got my copy of Some of the Dharma an am going out to my spot under the

tree and am going to read for eight hours.  Just in case anyone wanted to

come along on the journey of our minds that connects our minds.

                                                                        -Jon

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:32:29 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         der doc <der_doc@ROCKETMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: list

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===

visit my web site, The Beat(en) Regeneration

(http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131)

for info on the Beat, Beatnik and Neo-Beat subcultures

 

 

 

 

 

 

---Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET> wrote:

>

> At 04:44 PM 9/11/97 -0500, you wrote:

> >Rinaldo,

> >You should also add Howard Hart to your list.

> >Cordially,

> >Michael Skau

> >9/11/97

> >

> >

> Hell, why not add Bret Harte, Moss Hart

> and Harte Crain?

>

> Mike Rice

>

 

 

Yeah!  Hey why we're at it, lets all add ourselves to the list!  Me

first me first!  Now that we're all on the list I guess we don't need

our own real "Beat-ness" our beatitude or anything to define us cause

NOW WE'RE ALL ON THE LIST O' BEATS AREN'T WE SOOOOOO COOL NOW!

If you ask me, this List o' Beats thing is pretty dumb. Like I been

sayin':  Beats are Beat is Beat.  They know, you know, we know.  So

let's just cut the discussion.

"Gee I think that so-and-so is Beat"

"No way, they're such-and-such"

What's going on here?  Is it recess for your brains?

 

                            Adam J Muszkiewicz

 

_____________________________________________________________________

Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:02:15 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Dixon Edmiston <DIXCIN@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: The Life and Times of Allen Ginsberg

 

Ginsberg-PBS-Wednesday  10:00 pm EDT September 17

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:02:48 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: list

 

In a message dated 97-09-12 14:36:56 EDT, Adam effused:

 

<< Beats are Beat is Beat.  They know, you know, we know.  So

 let's just cut the discussion.

 "Gee I think that so-and-so is Beat"

 "No way, they're such-and-such"

 What's going on here?  Is it recess for your brains?

 

                             Adam J Muszkiewicz

  >>

 

Adam, I think the list is meant to be historic, as a sort of documentation of

the ones who blazed the trail.

 

I do disagree that being "Beat" is a mindset, or something anyone can aspire

to today. In the 1920s there were flappers, but there are no flappers today.

During the Depression, there were gangsters, but they in no way resemble the

gangsters of today. In the Forties there were beboppers, and there are no

beboppers being born today. In the Fifties, there were peaceniks (Ban the

Bomb), and they've all but passed away. In the Sixties, there were hippies,

but no one can become a hippie today.

 

Know what I mean? What is, is. What was, was.

 

You may subscribe to Beat principles and virtues (by your singular

definition), but that will never make you a Beat.

 

Lastly, give credit where it is due. Don't try to co-opt a feeling and being

that you had no hand in creating.

 

At best, we are secondary and tertiary Beat characters, if we're Beat at all.

And I, for one, am not a Beat, but I thank god for them.

 

diane

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:29:02 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Paul A. Maher Jr." <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      The Kerouac Quarterly available now!!!

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This is going to the printers this coming week. A good many will be sold at

the upcoming Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival. I am only printing one set

amount.

If you would like one please e-mail me to hold which I will do up to the

weekend of October 3rd. Unless you e-mail me again before the vents I cannot

hold it for you. This issue features 4 essays on Jack Kerouac, the Berg

Collection, and more...for more details go to The Kerouac Quarterly web

page. Thanks all! Paul of TKQ...

 

http://www.freeyellow.com/members/upstartcrow/page1.html

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 21:27:26 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Dufour <dufour@ULISSE.IT>

Subject:      One minute of "virtual silence" for Mother Teresa

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Rest in peace

-----------------

 

Francesco.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:53:34 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: The Life and Times of Allen Ginsberg

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Its next Wednesday, September 17th, where I live, so I'm assuming

it is not wrong.  Did anyone get the Tennessee Williams American

Masters, on PBS, a few weeks ago.  I

mean, has anyone got it on tape.  My VCR cut it off in the middle,

and I don't know anyone who would tape it here. Please write back

if you're willing to mail it to me for a price.

 

Mike Rice

 

 

 

At 08:46 AM 9/12/97 -0700, you wrote:

>===

>visit my web site, <a

>href="http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131">The Beat(en)

>Regeneration</a>

>(http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131)

>for info on the Beat, Beatnik and Neo-Beat subcultures

>

>

>

>

>

>---Jennifer Thompson <thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU> wrote:

>>

>> On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Alex Howard wrote:

>>

>> > Just letting everyone know that PBS will be showing this next

>Wednesday at

>> > 10.  Check local listings yadda yadda yadda.....

>> >

>> > Check out the pbs.org site.  They have a lot of stuff there.

>> >

>> > ------------------

>> > Alex Howard  (704)264-8259                    Appalachian State

>University

>> > kh14586@am.appstate.edu                       P.O. Box 12149

>> > http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586             Boone, NC  28608

>> >

>> 10 a.m. or p.m.?

>> jt

>>

>

>I think it's a little late to find that out... considering that was

>THIS LAST wednesday...

>_____________________________________________________________________

>Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 16:40:41 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Adam J Muszkiewicz disciplinary hearing

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    To:  Lieutenant Adam J Muszkiewicz, M.D. A.K.A. "der doc"

From:  Sgt Maj A. Maloney - Disciplinary Officer

 

        This is to inform you Officer Muszkiewicz that in my position

responsible for discipline on the Beat Liat, I am removing your Beat

priveleges. Until further notiice you cannot refer to yourself as "Beat" nor

can you make any claims to ""beatness". In the course of time you will come

to appreciate that ANYONE can be beat and you will regret being excluded.

 

        In the meantime you can continue to receive mail from the Beat List

and learn about all kinds of people who are beats; properly used, this

information will lead you to artists, writers, filmmakers and other scions

of Beat Culture and you will gain an expanding awareness of the world of

Beat.  Praise the Lord and pass the poetry.

 

                Hoping I sound like your parents   ....or Sister Mary

McGourty in 4th grade!

 

                A. Maloney, Sgt. Maj.   A.K.A. "Twerp" or "Twonny"

 

        I'm back having fun after a short absence. Hello to Marie and

Rinaldo and Neil and Derek et al.....thanks Bill Gargan for the State Street

address for Kerouac.

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never

cease to be amused."

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:13:16 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

In-Reply-To:  <BEAT-L%1997091216404104@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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re: unapproved absence from beat-L

 

sgt.maj. A. Maloney

Your admitting that you were in fact absent from beat-L without prior

written approval from either myself or Insp. Marie Countryman will only

make this disciplinary hearing easier. Your behavior was less than fitting

for someone occupying sucha prestegious position with the NOva Police. I

regretfully inform you that your rights and privledges regarding yr

position and rank and how it pertains in regard to beat-L and beat

Literature and Art in general is hereby under review. UNtil further notice

from either Inspector MC or yslef consider your badge and gun revoked and

yr position only slightly better than manny the mole.

 

regretfully

Inspector D. Beaulieu

Nova POlice

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 17:14:58 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

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Derek A. Beaulieu wrote:

>

> re: unapproved absence from beat-L

>

> sgt.maj. A. Maloney

> Your admitting that you were in fact absent from beat-L without prior

> written approval from either myself or Insp. Marie Countryman will only

> make this disciplinary hearing easier. Your behavior was less than fitting

> for someone occupying sucha prestegious position with the NOva Police. I

> regretfully inform you that your rights and privledges regarding yr

> position and rank and how it pertains in regard to beat-L and beat

> Literature and Art in general is hereby under review. UNtil further notice

> from either Inspector MC or yslef consider your badge and gun revoked and

> yr position only slightly better than manny the mole.

>

> regretfully

> Inspector D. Beaulieu

> Nova POlice

 

It was pre-approved by The Committee....

 

THE COMMITTEE

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 17:44:57 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Crickets

In-Reply-To:  <34189C55.1DDD@midusa.net>

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>R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

>>

>> David:

>>

>> I found the crickets.  In an ad for a Nancy Griffith show it says:

>>

>> Horizon presents

>>

>> An Evening with

>>

>> NANCI GRIFFITH & the Blue Moon Orchestra

>> featuring THE CRICKETS

>>

>> So, at least you know that they are in good hands and making a wonderful

>> folk sound.

>>

>> Peace,

>> --

>> Bentz

>> bocelts@scsn.net

>>

>> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

>

>that sounds like Nancy ... used to be on her wavelength ever few weeks

>back in iowa city ... the Mill was kinda Nancy griffith kinda place ...

>i think greg browne or green or something or other too.  used to goof

>off at open mike nites there with guitar and persecuting music for free

>... crowd favourite was acoustic-punk-angst-version of johndenver

>version of Leavin on a jet plane!

>

>dbr

 

dbr

 

Its Greg Brown. Long-time Iowa City resident. Frequent performer around

i.c. and college towns around the country. Generous with his time and

music. His CDs are amazing. Writes all his own music. For many,many years

he has been referred to as the best poet to emerge from Iowa

City--including grads of the International Writers and Poetry Workshops at

the U of I.

 

A few years ago Greg was a weekly regular on the Prairie Home

Companion--left after about a year for  (I'm thinking) mellower gigs and

mellower egos.

 

j grant

 

 

Small Press Authors and Publishers display books

                FREE

                   at

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=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 18:12:25 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Jan Kerouac books

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Help,

 

I placed a hold on two Jan Kerouac books with a book seller who contacted

me (I think) through the Beat list. A signed hard cover and the same book

in paper.

 

If this rings a bell with THE book seller, please contact me.

 

(I lost some E-mail if your wondering how I managed to screw this up.)

 

j grant

 

Small Press Authors and Publishers display books

                FREE

                   at

                     BookZen

                   http://www.bookzen.com

        375,913 visitors - 07-01-96 to 07-01-97

 

Small Press Authors and Publishers display books

                FREE

                   at

                     BookZen

                   http://www.bookzen.com

        375,913 visitors - 07-01-96 to 07-01-97

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 18:15:06 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: freight trains-a long rememberance

In-Reply-To:  <34196779.4B2A@sunflower.com>

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>In Mo. all trains stop in neuburg.  It is best to pick up your train in

>a small town that acts as a switching station. to get on and off there,

>don't use the big cities as your depot.  Both the hobo population and

>the guards are rougher.  Avoid amtrak for unticketed riding.  Carry a

>thermal ( metalic sheet camping blanket) Watch weight , go light.

>Pick flat bed cars for easy exit, sometimes box cars are locked at

>departure and can stay locked for days..  Switching stations can be

>determined by track maps.

>

>proverty is ugliest when you can't afford food or getting the cavity

>filled but if you are unencumbered the old old story is freedom and money

>don't >necessarily travel together.

>

>p

 

Having ridden freights for a number of summers during the 40s I learned to

avoid gondolas (the half-cars with no tops) loaded with poles, metal rods,

any cargo that can shift. A traveler can be tempted by the areas at the

ends of the cars where there's protection from the wind and a place to

stretch out. But shifting loads, caused by emergency stops, or jolts when

starting, have caused the deaths of the inexperienced. Trap doors that can

gain you entry to the space at the ends of refridgerated cars have been

used to hid in. Unfortunately, these are frequently difficult to get out

of.

 

If you ride a flat car with equipment on it make sure you leave onthing

onthe bd of the car to indicate that a person has been there. I once

crawled in the large scoop of a huge back-hoe. A bull would have to climb

to the top of a box car to look in. But, I left traces of lunch. Was

ordered out, and got out in Fargo.

 

When jumping a moving freight grab the ladder on the front end of the car.

If you miss-judge the speed and are grabbing the ladder at the rear you can

get slammed between the cars and the weight of your body is going to break

your grip. Don't boost yourself into an open door of a moving freight

unless there are two of you. One can boost the other on and the other can

grab your hand and pull you up. If you do this on your own you can end up

on your belly with nothing to grab, your ass off the edge and your feet

grabbing air.

 

If you're crossing tracks and waiting for a train to pass, hesitate before

crossing behind a train. Noise frequently drowns out the sound of a train

coming from the other direction on the next track. Lost a careless friend

who was in too much of a rush.

 

In the book of Meridel LeSueur's writings titled "RIPENING: Selected Works,

1927-1980" on page 154 there is a short story titled Moon Bums...three

women waiting for a freight in Mineapolis back in the Thirties. Two taking

off heading for the warmth of the South. The other (Meridel) seeing them

off, is a story that Beat-listers would enjoy.  In a seperate book, can't

figure out which one right now, LeSueur describes picking up a hitchhiker

as she drives West.

 

LeSueur's writing and my experience with hitchhiking and freights made

these stories two of the most memorable I have read on the subject.

 

Charlie Plymell probably has things to offer about these two stories that

would reveal much better than my words can, what I feel about the stories

and about LeSueur.

 

I frequently hopped freights when I was a kid, but it's really dangerous. A

person has to be strong and agile, or very, very  savvy.

 

Most memorable freight train ride for me was in 1945 a week or so after I

had turned 15. Two friends and I were waiting for anything heading East out

of Coure D'Alene, Idaho. We were already a week late to start our sophomore

year at  Marshall High, East Minneapolis.  We had stolen a hand car just

outside Spokane late the night before. It was a cold ride in the mountains

even though we had to work hard pumping up the grades.  It was getting

light when we got to Coure D'Alene. We tipped the handcar off to the side

and walked into the yards. There was a line of cars rip-tracked. A flatbed

had a U.S. Navy bus on it and was blocked so we were able to crawl under

the bus and be hidden from yard-bulls. We slept most of the day.

 

Late in the afternoon we were jolted awake and ended up part of a train

heading East. As we slowly got moving more and more hobos jumped on until

it was really crowded on the flatbed. Just before dark I made my way to the

front of the bus and with the help of a small tool-kit was able to open the

door without breaking any glass. I remember being surprisd that none of the

men knew how to do it.

 

Everyone piled into the bus. I announced that my two friends and I owned

the two long seats at the front and the floor between them. There were no

complaints. In fact we were shown a degree of respect we hadn't experienced

as kids before.

 

By the time we got to Billings--probably 500 plus miles from Cour D'Laene

almost every seat in the bus was taken. The cars were rip-tracked in

Billings. We stayed low as the bulls walked by checking for broken

windows--no one climbed up for closer looks. Finally, when it had been

quiet for a few minutes I eased the door open and looked up and down the

line. There was a bull about a block away.  It was beginning to get light.

I said adios, asked if anyone wanted to buy a used navy bus, and told the

group we were "hit'n the gravel and haul'n ass. Everyone agreed that they

should do the same thing. We waited until all the blankets and gear was

packed-lined up and eased the door open. I was the first off. As soon as I

hit the gravel the bull turned. He took a step in our direction, but just

as my two friends landed he stopped--frozen in his tracks--as hobo after

hobo after hobo --there was about 25 of us--made the jump and ran. The

highway was only a short run across the yard, but my friends and I stood

there, watching and wondering what the bull would do. By the time the last

few had jumped the bull started running, but must have decided it was best

to get help so he ran away from us. In less than a couple of minutes there

wasn't a soul around.

 

The three of us eased over to the highway and walked into an all-night

diner with only a cook on duty. The counter was lined with

punch-boards--which were everywhere back then, nowhere now.  We ordered

burgers and while the fellow was in the kitchen I started punching tickets

out of the .50=A2 and the $1 boards. Everytime the cook turned his head we'd

punch. After picking out the winners we perched on our stools waiting for

the food.  Once served we asked the old guy about where we could jump a

freight East. Since we were so young he was quick with fatherly advice.

Talk turned to money and we said we had to ride the rails because we were

almost broke. My friend said, "Let's take a chance on a punch board? " The

cook chuckled and said, "You might get lucky." Perry, (the youngest and

smallest) had a flair for the dramatic and took his St. Christopher medal

from around his neck and held it over the punch board while explaining to

the cook that he had fallen into the Spokane River a few weeks earlier and

would have drowned if the chain hadn't got caught on a branch. It wasn't

easy keeping a straight face when the cook said he'd read about it in the

paper and thought he recognized him from the picture.

 

We would punch, read the number, palm the piece of paper for one of the

winners we already had, hand it to the cook and he'd pay us.

 

After a few winners the cook asked us to try it without the St. Christopher

medal. We allowed ourselves a loser and did it a couple of times for

effect. But with the medal hanging over the board we won every time. The

cook tried to buy the St. Christopher medal from Perry without success. He

was pissed that it was an engraved gift from his mom and swore he was going

to start carrying spares. We walked out with almost a hundred dollars--big

bucks in '45.

 

Other than getting busted in Jamestown, North Dakota the rest of the trip

was uneventful.  Once the freight was on the move they let us go. But we

were young, had all the energy to spare, casually walked a block away from

the tracks, and ran all the way through Jamestown--Jimtown to the

hobos--and caught the same freight. We got off where we got on--South East

Mpls by Van Cleve Park, a half block from home.

 

j grant

 

 

 

 

 

Small Press Authors and Publishers display books

                FREE

                   at

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        375,913 visitors - 07-01-96 to 07-01-97

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 18:25:54 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>

Subject:      list

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

>On 9/11/97, Michael Skau wrote:

Rinaldo,

You should also add Howard Hart to your list.

 

>On 9/11/97, Mike Rice wrote:

Hell, why not add Bret Harte, Moss Hart

and Harte Crain?

 

Mike,

Like Patricia, I was completely disconcerted by the tone of your response.

You later wrote that you didn't know who Howard Hart was.

Well, his poem "exodus #2" was included in Stanley Fisher's 1960

collection _Beat Coast East_; his poem "Angel" appears in Elias

Wilentz's _The Beat Scene_ (together with a photograph of him by Fred

McDarrah. Furthermore, consider the following sentence from Fred

McDarrah's _Beat Generation: Glory Days in Greenwich Village_:

"The first jazz and poetry event in Greenwich Village was at the Brata

Gallery, 89 East 10th Street, on November 19, 1957, when Jack Kerouac,

Philip Lamantia, and Howard Hart, a jazz drummer as well as poet, read

poetry to the music of David Amram's French horn." (p. 81; McDarrah's book

also includes Howard Hart in five of the books photographs).

If you didn't know who Howard Hart was, all you had to do was ask. People

on this beat listservice have a lot to share with each other, but a

smart-ass attitude is not encouraging to such sharing.

Sincerely,

Michael Skau

9/12/97

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:09:26 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sean Elias <SPElias@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: hitchhiking

 

In a message dated 97-09-11 11:12:22 EDT, you write:

 

<< An endangered species at best >>

 

 

Perhaps, also, a lost art...It seems that what we must do, in this age of

 AIDS, mass murderers, and madmen, is protect ourselves...If I see someone

with an obvious knife sticking out of their back pocket (not to mention their

back, leg, liver or thigh) I'm not likely to pick them up....Which is not to

say that this object is not an unwise thing to carry with you??????????

The "Denny's" thing sounds o.k.....get to know the person/people you are

trusting with your life......in a 500000 lb. vehicle going thru a paris

tunnel.......

 

 

sorry, I'm sick...............s.e.e.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:38:13 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sean Elias <SPElias@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: hitchhiking

 

In a message dated 97-09-11 15:34:25 EDT, you write:

 

<<

 I talked at some length with Don-the-hitchhiker-at-Denny's who is 66 and

 fits the stereotypes of the hobo that are no longer nostalgically

 understood.  He smells.  He has old worn clothes.  He smokes

 cigarettes.  He is a "drinker".  And he has a face "that looks like 25

 miles of bad road." >>

 

 

Yea, that's the thing...you have to get to KNOW somebody at the rest stop or

there abouts (Denny's????) to go on.....

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:38:53 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sean Elias <SPElias@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Hitchhiking

 

In a message dated 97-09-12 01:14:31 EDT, you write:

 

<<

 But, despite this great trip, I don't really thinking hitching was that

 great an idea.

  >>

I have wonderful memories of hitching up and down the east coast in the

70's.....buying great mind expanders from a kid we picked up on the way home

from high (!) school.......getting a lift from somebody like rambling jack

elliot in vermont (who WAS this guy) or somebody like him....warm, friendly,

no scar(e)s.....

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 20:45:11 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: list

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Diane De Rooy wrote:

>

> Lastly, give credit where it is due. Don't try to co-opt a feeling and being

> that you had no hand in creating.

>

> At best, we are secondary and tertiary Beat characters, if we're Beat at all.

> And I, for one, am not a Beat, but I thank god for them.

>

>

Diane,

 

Thanks again for saying almost exactly what I wished to say in response

to this ever resurfacing thread.  Probably  on the flapper-L gen-x girls

are trying to assert their flapperhood--as pointlessly as wanna be

beatniks do.

 

Bird Lives.

 

J. Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:46:29 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      to Michel Skau and Jo Grant

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Michael,

 

        A wonderful, erudite response to Mike Price and in educating him you

educate many of us. Gives some of us new research threads. Thanks a

lot....and right on the heels of Jo Grant's terrific hoboing memoir!

 

        It's certainly the beginnings of a memoir Jo. Do us all a big favor

and send out some more...or give us more of a description of the May Fest

celebrations that you once mentioned.

        The train riding story was amazingly well timed. I've been thinking

about a compilation of train songs and stories that I've wanted to put

together and was listening to a new Library of Congress CD of railroad songs

that's just come out. Great stuff. Finished listening and came down to check

my e-mail and find your story. What a treat!

 

                Antoine (still talkative despite having my priveleges

removed...thanks Derek, Marie and David; I needed that jolt of humor!)

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never

cease to be amused."

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 20:54:13 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: list

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Michael Skau wrote:

 

> If you didn't know who Howard Hart was, all you had to do was ask. People

> on this beat listservice have a lot to share with each other, but a

> smart-ass attitude is not encouraging to such sharing.

 

 

Actually Michael if I remember the thread correctly it was not Patricia

who didn't recognize Mr. Hart.  For the record, neither did I.  I think

it is helpful for people nominating folks to the list to give some

identity.  Few of us West Coasties would recognize every East Coaster

and vice verse.

 

But I remember Patricia seconding the nomination of Howard Hart and

joining you in objecting to Mr. Rice's (I thought) funny nomination of

Moss Hart, Bret Harte, and Hart Crane.

 

J. Stauffer

J. Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 06:29:07 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      A Love Supreme by John Coltrane.

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

                A Love Supreme

 

        I will do all I can to be worthy of Thee O Lord.

        It all has to do with it.

        Thank you God.

        Peace.

        There is none other.

        God is. It is so beautiful.

        Thank you God. God is all.

        Help us to resolve our fears and weaknesses.

        Thank you God.

        In You all things are possible.

        We know. God made us so.

        Keep your eye on God.

        Gos is. He always was. He always will be.

        No matter what...it is God.

        He is gracious and merciful.

        It is most important that I know Thee.

        Words, sounds, speech, men, memory, thoughts,

                fears and emotions-time-all related...

                all made from one...all made in one.

        Blessed be His name.

        Thought waves-heat waves-all vibrations-

                all paths lead to God. Thank you God.

        His way...it is so lovely...it is gracious.

        It is merciful-thank you God.

        One thought can produce millions of vibrations

                and they all go back to God...everything does.

        Thank you God.

        Have no fear...believe...thank you God.

        The universe has many wonders. God is all.

        His way...it is so wonderful.

        Thoughts-deeds-vibrations, etc.

        They all go back to God and He cleanses all.

        He is gracious and merciful...thank you God.

        Glory to God...God is so alive.

        God is.

        God loves.

        May I be acceptable in Thy sight.

        We are all one in His grace.

        The fact that we do exist is acknowledgement

                of Thee O Lord.

        Thank you God.

        God will wash away all our tears...

                He always has...

        He always will.

        Seek Him everyday. In all way seek God everyday.

        Let us sing all songs to God.

        To whom all praise is due...praise God.

        No road is an easy one, but they all

                go back to God.

        With all we share God.

        It is all with God.

        It is all with Thee.

        Obey the Lord.

        Blessed is He.

        We are from one thing...the will of God...

                thank you God.

        I have seen God-I have seen ungodly-

                none can be greater-none can compare to God.

        Thank you God.

        He will remake us...He always has and He

                always will.

        It is true-blessed be His name-thank you God.

        God breathes through us so completely...

                so gently we hardly feel it...yet,

                it is our everything.

        Thank you God.

        ELATION-ELEGANCE-EXALTATION-

        All from God.

        Thank you God. Amen.

 

 

        John Coltrane - December, 1964

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 00:57:35 -0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Bruce W. Hartman, Jr." <bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>

Subject:      Re: A Love Supreme by John Coltrane.

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Amen, Brother Rinaldo!  Thank you for sending this to the list.

 

Bruce

bwhartmanjr@iname.com

http://www.geocities.com/~tranestation

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:41:05 -0400

Reply-To:     Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: hitchhiking

In-Reply-To:  <9709120730.aa20270@mail.cruzio.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

obBeat: am 3/4 done with _The Western Lands_. Anyone in the mood for a

discussion on this book?

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Leon--

 

> Well put I thought,  until I got to the +ACI-take you for a ride+ACI- bump on

>  the

> ride. I didn't know whether to take it as a  very serious warning, are you

> sounding an alarm, or just playing around , watch out, it can happen, sort

> of thing.

 

Maybe a bad choice of words there. I meant "take you for a ride" as in take

you somewhere, go places, like the Beat-L look at all this stuff we talk

about & where we go --

 

But also maybe a small tiny part of it "take you for a ride" like use you,

take you somewhere and it's not so good. Sure it can happen, people can do

anything ("everything is permitted") and who knows where it will go?

 

Maybe a re-write is in order:

 

no, only easy thing to do now is hitchhike on the net -- folks in chat

rooms & irc, at ends of internet connections still talk to strangers, pass

ideas along and communicate innermost private thoughts, typing and listening

and open to anything, where we'll go.

 

 

email stutz@dsl.org  Copyright (c) 1997 Michael Stutz; this information is

<http://dsl.org/m/>  free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL, and as long

                     as this sentence remains; it comes with absolutely NO

                     WARRANTY; for details see <http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 01:37:19 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Patman <INRUN8@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Freight trains

 

This is my first post to the list. I am normally so far behind on my

e-mail I don't get a chance to respond to a thread. I have been

reading the freight train thread with dismay. Having been a railroad

engineer for the past 23 years I have seen a great deal of change

in the way railroads operate and in the hobos who still ride the rails.

Modern rail cars have very few places where a bo can ride safely.

Truck trailers and containers on flatcars are everywhere and the bo

is almost always exposed to the elements, we're talking extreme

heat and cold here. Besides the usual dangers of derailments,

shifting loads and slack action that can knock a bo completely off

the train while it is moving there are other hazards that you are

probably not aware of. Railroads haul more hazardous material

than you can imagine. Radioactive products, radioactive waste,

poison gas, all types of explosives,corrosives, combustibles, as

well as biohazards such as waste from hospitals and raw sewage.

A car that is empty almost certainly has residue, usually dust,

that can be just as bad. That dust that will almost certainly cover

you when you get off the train could merely be grain dust. It could

also be any number of products that will give you severe burns

when you try washing it off with water. Products that we take for

granted such as chlorine and ammonia will be undeluted in a tank

car and could easily cause serious lung damage. Also the hobo of

the 90's is a whole new breed of cat. They are bolder, far more

agressive and more likely to be armed. As a result the railroad "bulls"

who are actually policemen, and do carry guns, live ammo, the

whole bit,  are much more likely to treat you as a criminal rather

than just another trespasser. In summary for anybody who hasn't

already deleted this post, I think this list has some really good

people and I would hate to see anything bad happen to any of you.

Take care and stay off the rails, it's a bums road.

 

James Patman

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 02:23:49 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: freight trains-a long rememberance

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

This is the basis for a wonderful novel.  Why haven't

you written it?  Its the best thing I've seen written here

since I signed on.  You are your own Visions of Cody.

 

Mike Rice

 

 

At 06:15 PM 9/12/97 -0500, you wrote:

>>In Mo. all trains stop in neuburg.  It is best to pick up your train in

>>a small town that acts as a switching station. to get on and off there,

>>don't use the big cities as your depot.  Both the hobo population and

>>the guards are rougher.  Avoid amtrak for unticketed riding.  Carry a

>>thermal ( metalic sheet camping blanket) Watch weight , go light.

>>Pick flat bed cars for easy exit, sometimes box cars are locked at

>>departure and can stay locked for days..  Switching stations can be

>>determined by track maps.

>>

>>proverty is ugliest when you can't afford food or getting the cavity

>>filled but if you are unencumbered the old old story is freedom and money

>>don't >necessarily travel together.

>>

>>p

>

>Having ridden freights for a number of summers during the 40s I learned to

>avoid gondolas (the half-cars with no tops) loaded with poles, metal rods,

>any cargo that can shift. A traveler can be tempted by the areas at the

>ends of the cars where there's protection from the wind and a place to

>stretch out. But shifting loads, caused by emergency stops, or jolts when

>starting, have caused the deaths of the inexperienced. Trap doors that can

>gain you entry to the space at the ends of refridgerated cars have been

>used to hid in. Unfortunately, these are frequently difficult to get out

>of.

>

>If you ride a flat car with equipment on it make sure you leave onthing

>onthe bd of the car to indicate that a person has been there. I once

>crawled in the large scoop of a huge back-hoe. A bull would have to climb

>to the top of a box car to look in. But, I left traces of lunch. Was

>ordered out, and got out in Fargo.

>

>When jumping a moving freight grab the ladder on the front end of the car.

>If you miss-judge the speed and are grabbing the ladder at the rear you can

>get slammed between the cars and the weight of your body is going to break

>your grip. Don't boost yourself into an open door of a moving freight

>unless there are two of you. One can boost the other on and the other can

>grab your hand and pull you up. If you do this on your own you can end up

>on your belly with nothing to grab, your ass off the edge and your feet

>grabbing air.

>

>If you're crossing tracks and waiting for a train to pass, hesitate before

>crossing behind a train. Noise frequently drowns out the sound of a train

>coming from the other direction on the next track. Lost a careless friend

>who was in too much of a rush.

>

>In the book of Meridel LeSueur's writings titled "RIPENING: Selected Works,

>1927-1980" on page 154 there is a short story titled Moon Bums...three

>women waiting for a freight in Mineapolis back in the Thirties. Two taking

>off heading for the warmth of the South. The other (Meridel) seeing them

>off, is a story that Beat-listers would enjoy.  In a seperate book, can't

>figure out which one right now, LeSueur describes picking up a hitchhiker

>as she drives West.

>

>LeSueur's writing and my experience with hitchhiking and freights made

>these stories two of the most memorable I have read on the subject.

>

>Charlie Plymell probably has things to offer about these two stories that

>would reveal much better than my words can, what I feel about the stories

>and about LeSueur.

>

>I frequently hopped freights when I was a kid, but it's really dangerous. A

>person has to be strong and agile, or very, very  savvy.

>

>Most memorable freight train ride for me was in 1945 a week or so after I

>had turned 15. Two friends and I were waiting for anything heading East out

>of Coure D'Alene, Idaho. We were already a week late to start our sophomore

>year at  Marshall High, East Minneapolis.  We had stolen a hand car just

>outside Spokane late the night before. It was a cold ride in the mountains

>even though we had to work hard pumping up the grades.  It was getting

>light when we got to Coure D'Alene. We tipped the handcar off to the side

>and walked into the yards. There was a line of cars rip-tracked. A flatbed

>had a U.S. Navy bus on it and was blocked so we were able to crawl under

>the bus and be hidden from yard-bulls. We slept most of the day.

>

>Late in the afternoon we were jolted awake and ended up part of a train

>heading East. As we slowly got moving more and more hobos jumped on until

>it was really crowded on the flatbed. Just before dark I made my way to the

>front of the bus and with the help of a small tool-kit was able to open the

>door without breaking any glass. I remember being surprisd that none of the

>men knew how to do it.

>

>Everyone piled into the bus. I announced that my two friends and I owned

>the two long seats at the front and the floor between them. There were no

>complaints. In fact we were shown a degree of respect we hadn't experienced

>as kids before.

>

>By the time we got to Billings--probably 500 plus miles from Cour D'Laene

>almost every seat in the bus was taken. The cars were rip-tracked in

>Billings. We stayed low as the bulls walked by checking for broken

>windows--no one climbed up for closer looks. Finally, when it had been

>quiet for a few minutes I eased the door open and looked up and down the

>line. There was a bull about a block away.  It was beginning to get light.

>I said adios, asked if anyone wanted to buy a used navy bus, and told the

>group we were "hit'n the gravel and haul'n ass. Everyone agreed that they

>should do the same thing. We waited until all the blankets and gear was

>packed-lined up and eased the door open. I was the first off. As soon as I

>hit the gravel the bull turned. He took a step in our direction, but just

>as my two friends landed he stopped--frozen in his tracks--as hobo after

>hobo after hobo --there was about 25 of us--made the jump and ran. The

>highway was only a short run across the yard, but my friends and I stood

>there, watching and wondering what the bull would do. By the time the last

>few had jumped the bull started running, but must have decided it was best

>to get help so he ran away from us. In less than a couple of minutes there

>wasn't a soul around.

>

>The three of us eased over to the highway and walked into an all-night

>diner with only a cook on duty. The counter was lined with

>punch-boards--which were everywhere back then, nowhere now.  We ordered

>burgers and while the fellow was in the kitchen I started punching tickets

>out of the .50=A2 and the $1 boards. Everytime the cook turned his head=

 we'd

>punch. After picking out the winners we perched on our stools waiting for

>the food.  Once served we asked the old guy about where we could jump a

>freight East. Since we were so young he was quick with fatherly advice.

>Talk turned to money and we said we had to ride the rails because we were

>almost broke. My friend said, "Let's take a chance on a punch board? " The

>cook chuckled and said, "You might get lucky." Perry, (the youngest and

>smallest) had a flair for the dramatic and took his St. Christopher medal

>from around his neck and held it over the punch board while explaining to

>the cook that he had fallen into the Spokane River a few weeks earlier and

>would have drowned if the chain hadn't got caught on a branch. It wasn't

>easy keeping a straight face when the cook said he'd read about it in the

>paper and thought he recognized him from the picture.

>

>We would punch, read the number, palm the piece of paper for one of the

>winners we already had, hand it to the cook and he'd pay us.

>

>After a few winners the cook asked us to try it without the St. Christopher

>medal. We allowed ourselves a loser and did it a couple of times for

>effect. But with the medal hanging over the board we won every time. The

>cook tried to buy the St. Christopher medal from Perry without success. He

>was pissed that it was an engraved gift from his mom and swore he was going

>to start carrying spares. We walked out with almost a hundred dollars--big

>bucks in '45.

>

>Other than getting busted in Jamestown, North Dakota the rest of the trip

>was uneventful.  Once the freight was on the move they let us go. But we

>were young, had all the energy to spare, casually walked a block away from

>the tracks, and ran all the way through Jamestown--Jimtown to the

>hobos--and caught the same freight. We got off where we got on--South East

>Mpls by Van Cleve Park, a half block from home.

>

>j grant

>

>

>

>

>

>Small Press Authors and Publishers display books

>                FREE

>                   at

>                     BookZen

>                   http://www.bookzen.com

>        375,913 visitors - 07-01-96 to 07-01-97

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 01:23:15 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Freight trains

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

James, great of you to post this,  the best response made.  I feel

ashamed, washing memories like I did was stupid.  Thank you

p

 

James Patman wrote:

>

> This is my first post to the list. I am normally so far behind on my

> e-mail I don't get a chance to respond to a thread. I have been

> reading the freight train thread with dismay. Having been a railroad

> engineer for the past 23 years I have seen a great deal of change

> in the way railroads operate and in the hobos who still ride the rails.

> Modern rail cars have very few places where a bo can ride safely.

> Truck trailers and containers on flatcars are everywhere and the bo

> is almost always exposed to the elements, we're talking extreme

> heat and cold here. Besides the usual dangers of derailments,

> shifting loads and slack action that can knock a bo completely off

> the train while it is moving there are other hazards that you are

> probably not aware of. Railroads haul more hazardous material

> than you can imagine. Radioactive products, radioactive waste,

> poison gas, all types of explosives,corrosives, combustibles, as

> well as biohazards such as waste from hospitals and raw sewage.

> A car that is empty almost certainly has residue, usually dust,

> that can be just as bad. That dust that will almost certainly cover

> you when you get off the train could merely be grain dust. It could

> also be any number of products that will give you severe burns

> when you try washing it off with water. Products that we take for

> granted such as chlorine and ammonia will be undeluted in a tank

> car and could easily cause serious lung damage. Also the hobo of

> the 90's is a whole new breed of cat. They are bolder, far more

> agressive and more likely to be armed. As a result the railroad "bulls"

> who are actually policemen, and do carry guns, live ammo, the

> whole bit,  are much more likely to treat you as a criminal rather

> than just another trespasser. In summary for anybody who hasn't

> already deleted this post, I think this list has some really good

> people and I would hate to see anything bad happen to any of you.

> Take care and stay off the rails, it's a bums road.

>

> James Patman

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 02:43:22 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Freight trains

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

What a spoilsport?  You certainly know what you are talking

about.  But where is the romance of the road if all experience

has to be politically, environmentally, and regulated(ly?) correct?

I won't be taking any trains anytime soon, especially on the freight

section.  Interesting to read what you have to say.

 

Mike Rice

 

At 01:37 AM 9/13/97 -0400, you wrote:

>This is my first post to the list. I am normally so far behind on my

>e-mail I don't get a chance to respond to a thread. I have been

>reading the freight train thread with dismay. Having been a railroad

>engineer for the past 23 years I have seen a great deal of change

>in the way railroads operate and in the hobos who still ride the rails.

>Modern rail cars have very few places where a bo can ride safely.

>Truck trailers and containers on flatcars are everywhere and the bo

>is almost always exposed to the elements, we're talking extreme

>heat and cold here. Besides the usual dangers of derailments,

>shifting loads and slack action that can knock a bo completely off

>the train while it is moving there are other hazards that you are

>probably not aware of. Railroads haul more hazardous material

>than you can imagine. Radioactive products, radioactive waste,

>poison gas, all types of explosives,corrosives, combustibles, as

>well as biohazards such as waste from hospitals and raw sewage.

>A car that is empty almost certainly has residue, usually dust,

>that can be just as bad. That dust that will almost certainly cover

>you when you get off the train could merely be grain dust. It could

>also be any number of products that will give you severe burns

>when you try washing it off with water. Products that we take for

>granted such as chlorine and ammonia will be undeluted in a tank

>car and could easily cause serious lung damage. Also the hobo of

>the 90's is a whole new breed of cat. They are bolder, far more

>agressive and more likely to be armed. As a result the railroad "bulls"

>who are actually policemen, and do carry guns, live ammo, the

>whole bit,  are much more likely to treat you as a criminal rather

>than just another trespasser. In summary for anybody who hasn't

>already deleted this post, I think this list has some really good

>people and I would hate to see anything bad happen to any of you.

>Take care and stay off the rails, it's a bums road.

>

>James Patman

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 03:00:14 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Patman <INRUN8@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Freight trains

 

>James, great of you to post this, the best response made. I feel

>ashamed, washing memories like I did was stupid. thank you

>p

 

 

p, I was not trying to be judgemental or put you or anyone else down.

What I was trying to do was inform anyone thinking of riding the rails

about what a mean and dangerous place they have become in the 90's

sorry if I made you feel bad.

 

James P.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 02:22:18 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Freight trains

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

James Patman wrote:

>

> >James, great of you to post this, the best response made. I feel

> >ashamed, washing memories like I did was stupid. thank you

> >p

>

> p, I was not trying to be judgemental or put you or anyone else down.

> What I was trying to do was inform anyone thinking of riding the rails

> about what a mean and dangerous place they have become in the 90's

> sorry if I made you feel bad.

>

> James P.

 

i don't feel that bad, one of the things i like about burroughs is the

unwashed facts.  I was sentimental about my brief sanitized brush with

rails, enchanted by jo Grant's stories, but the beauty in your

explanation came from seeing.  you know about it and said.

This freight thread has been powerfully evocative for me.

 I don't feel it is sentimental to try to somehow convey  the magic that

iron travel can charge within you. I remember taking a passanger train

from Jefferson city with a beautifully intense and obssessed musician,

sneaking to the back of the train, and listening to him play wild

trumpet to the stars, the sound bouncing between the trees and the the

water as the train drove through Missouri along the river.The whistle

playing against the stars that raced behind us.

        The business about rather the beats were sentimental or not seemed to

be avoiding the difference between that great hard grab of being

attacked by your emotions and inventing feelings that fit the scene or

were appropriate.  Some of the stupidest remarks i have ever heard were

people dismissing feelings and emotions, not letting them join thought

and ideas as valid parts of a whole.  Is it sentimental to love so much

that you are reborn or to forgive shit so low as to raise bile to your

throat?

 

Thinking about that train ride reminded me that my favorite short poem

was about that guy.

 

Mr. Pounds

you remind me of a jackass my father had,

no one could ride him, he broke my brothers arm.

It made me like you

but it didn't mean I wanted to ride you.

 

P

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 02:12:10 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: Hitchhiking

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

 Thanks for the clarification. I am relieved.

 

I was hoping there were no dark foreboding underpinning there. We are on the

same wave length. Surfing the good waves. A bit of real danger is there.

Surprising, stunning new vistas all the time. Maybe even a cherished belief

threatened here and there. Right now a sudden thought. How many wonderful

people, creative outpourings, hidden corners of world wide  treasures, leap

into full view in my  mind through this screen.  How much brilliant light is

jumping out of the many facets of the jewels of the best minds, turning

right in front of me, spinning, delicately engaging. Between the fingertips

of loving dedicated experts on life as well as on books , lucky to have made

their way close to the pioneering adventures of the mind, the great

adventurers who spin them, pioneers of our age. So happy to see you all

passing by. Flashes of the worlds of fiction and of reality. Had no idea of

the possibilities of hitching rides in the skies,

friends zooming by our paths.Look at that! Awesome. So much fascinating

stuff to unfold. The stuff of our lives, diamonds in the rough.The Beat-L

hitchiking gang. What  a ride to hitch. Including our newest acquaintance

Yan  who took us off on this ride where we also met the clear eyes of the

young girl begging in China. Don't we all wish we could know her more too?

Are we going to run into her another time?

 

My guardian cops are getting nervous. Aren't there questions already rising,

are we too romantic? All this flowery language. But how true it is. Why dim

the lights, bundle up in the cold, when the riches of life are here to

brighten and warm our lives. It is hard to find enough words.

 

So we keep surfing Mike. Not too carefully. Looking for  for the next good

wave. Don't want to miss it.

 

By the way, did you notice Rinaldo's photo on his list site?

http://www.gpnet.it/rasa/home.htm I wonder what the huge stack of papers is

about? Ask Rinaldo? O.K. I am asking you Rinaldo. Where you heading there

with that mysterious armful load? Nice to meet the rest of the package that

beams to us these these refreshing flashes for all ocassions.

 

That reminded me to take another look at your site. So how is copyleft

progressing? It may not seem beat related right off hand, but I think how

relevant it would be for future Kerouacs, etc, in a world where copyleft

replaced royalties and other restraints upon creative happiness and gifts to

the world.

ciao

 

leon

obBeat: am 3/4 done with _The Western Lands_. Anyone in the mood for a

>discussion on this book?

>

>---------------------------------------------------------------------------

---

>

>

>Leon--

>

>> Well put I thought,  until I got to the "take you for a ride" bump on

>>  the

>> ride. I didn't know whether to take it as a  very serious warning, are

you

>> sounding an alarm, or just playing around , watch out, it can happen,

sort

>> of thing.

>

>Maybe a bad choice of words there. I meant "take you for a ride" as in take

>you somewhere, go places, like the Beat-L look at all this stuff we talk

>about & where we go --

>

>But also maybe a small tiny part of it "take you for a ride" like use you,

>take you somewhere and it's not so good. Sure it can happen, people can do

>anything ("everything is permitted") and who knows where it will go?

>

>Maybe a re-write is in order:

>

>no, only easy thing to do now is hitchhike on the net -- folks in chat

>rooms & irc, at ends of internet connections still talk to strangers, pass

>ideas along and communicate innermost private thoughts, typing and

listening

>and open to anything, where we'll go.

>

>

>email stutz@dsl.org  Copyright (c) 1997 Michael Stutz; this information is

><http://dsl.org/m/>  free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL, and as long

>                     as this sentence remains; it comes with absolutely NO

>                     WARRANTY; for details see <http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.

>.-

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 02:55:22 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Where is Charley?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

 I keep telling myself Charley is O.K. Charley is busy . Charley is coming

back. Wha happind? Sure miss your fine needle stitching our quilt with

dazzling thread. You here lurking Charles Plymell? Anybody know?

 

leon

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 05:19:12 +0530

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Crickets

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

jo grant wrote:

>

> >R. Bentz Kirby wrote:

> >>

> >> David:

> >>

> >> I found the crickets.  In an ad for a Nancy Griffith show it says:

> >>

> >> Horizon presents

> >>

> >> An Evening with

> >>

> >> NANCI GRIFFITH & the Blue Moon Orchestra

> >> featuring THE CRICKETS

> >>

> >> So, at least you know that they are in good hands and making a wonderful

> >> folk sound.

> >>

> >> Peace,

> >> --

> >> Bentz

> >> bocelts@scsn.net

> >>

> >> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

> >

> >that sounds like Nancy ... used to be on her wavelength ever few weeks

> >back in iowa city ... the Mill was kinda Nancy griffith kinda place ...

> >i think greg browne or green or something or other too.  used to goof

> >off at open mike nites there with guitar and persecuting music for free

> >... crowd favourite was acoustic-punk-angst-version of johndenver

> >version of Leavin on a jet plane!

> >

> >dbr

>

 

Jo,

thanks for reminding me ... i got it now...

I didn't ever meet much from Writer's Workshop there.  Seemed like they

either taught you how to stick your nose very high in the air and say

I'm from the Writer's Workshop or they taught you how to bum money from

poorer graduate students.  I was a bit taken by the mystique at first

but soon got over it.  I remember walking through some foreign festival

of writer's workshoppers talking with them about legends of iowa city

and kissing the black angel in the cemetery and whatnot and invisibility

at the hamburg inn and they didn't seem to have been taught anything

about living within such legends and then integrating towards writing

experiences.  Never really figures out what they did write about.

 

So those of you who love the Iowa writer's workshop go ahead and blast

me now.  I think i'd head west to boulder at drop of a nickel if looking

into such things.

 

dbr

> dbr

>

> Its Greg Brown. Long-time Iowa City resident. Frequent performer around

> i.c. and college towns around the country. Generous with his time and

> music. His CDs are amazing. Writes all his own music. For many,many years

> he has been referred to as the best poet to emerge from Iowa

> City--including grads of the International Writers and Poetry Workshops at

> the U of I.

>

> A few years ago Greg was a weekly regular on the Prairie Home

> Companion--left after about a year for  (I'm thinking) mellower gigs and

> mellower egos.

>

> j grant

>

> Small Press Authors and Publishers display books

>                 FREE

>                    at

>                      BookZen

>                    http://www.bookzen.com

>         375,913 visitors - 07-01-96 to 07-01-97

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 09:40:34 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: software nightmare

In-Reply-To:  <3419BEE2.A6C@midusa.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

insp d: i may be lost in cyberspace for a while. downloaded new netscape to

free myself of eudora lite (worst mail program i ever had, can't download

attachments, missed all those great pics and jpegs that were sent, now

might loose all addresses, etc once i install in my intrepidly stupidity of

changing systems. but i'm giving it a shot. i have same isp and address.

wish me luck, all.

 

>Derek A. Beaulieu wrote:

>>

>> re: unapproved absence from beat-L

>>

>> sgt.maj. A. Maloney

>> Your admitting that you were in fact absent from beat-L without prior

>> written approval from either myself or Insp. Marie Countryman will only

>> make this disciplinary hearing easier. Your behavior was less than fitting

>> for someone occupying sucha prestegious position with the NOva Police. I

>> regretfully inform you that your rights and privledges regarding yr

>> position and rank and how it pertains in regard to beat-L and beat

>> Literature and Art in general is hereby under review. UNtil further notice

>> from either Inspector MC or yslef consider your badge and gun revoked and

>> yr position only slightly better than manny the mole.

>>

>> regretfully

>> Inspector D. Beaulieu

>> Nova POlice

>

>It was pre-approved by The Committee....

>

>THE COMMITTEE

>

>david rhaesa

>salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 08:03:02 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: software nightmare

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Hi,

 

Drank some juice, had some coffee, the bottomless heart nagging my brain,

decided to go ahead and ask you what you meant, and then looked in the inbox

again, here you are

 

I saved all the pictures that we got, no problem, can be forwarded to you

whenever you are ready.

 

Leon

 

+AD4-insp d: i may be lost in cyberspace for a while. downloaded new netscape to

+AD4-free myself of eudora lite (worst mail program i ever had, can't download

+AD4-attachments, missed all those great pics and jpegs that were sent, now

+AD4-might loose all addresses, etc once i install in my intrepidly stupidity of

+AD4-changing systems. but i'm giving it a shot. i have same isp and address.

+AD4-wish me luck, all.

+AD4-

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 12:32:14 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: software nightmare

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> sorry all: my and leon's mail going to list. i can't seem to cut and paste

> private addresses netscape is already driving me crazy as my life flashes in

> public before my eyes. and poor leon's too. ah, well.

 

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 12:33:45 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Fog

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: multipart/alternative;

              boundary="------------CA723C5BFAA837603DC21D2C"

 

--------------CA723C5BFAA837603DC21D2C

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                                   FOG

 

Fog-foam in twin fountains

Is art.

Cutup by the unseen artist

On a broader page.

It is assimilated.

 

Further,

Genetic imprinting,

Tiny Tot Coupe

Sits top broken,

Next to broken down car.

Abandoned.

 

Fog comes off the lake,

Like bubbles from a fountain.

As if sculpted by

Teen age pranksters.

Assimilated.

 

Fog,

Shrouding my soup,

Cooking below

The surface.

 

--

 

Peace,

 

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

 

 

--------------CA723C5BFAA837603DC21D2C

Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

<HTML>

 

<CENTER>FOG</CENTER>

 

 

<P>Fog-foam in twin fountains

<BR>Is art.

<BR>Cutup by the unseen artist

<BR>On a broader page.

<BR>It is assimilated.

 

<P>Further,

<BR>Genetic imprinting,

<BR>Tiny Tot Coupe

<BR>Sits top broken,

<BR>Next to broken down car.

<BR>Abandoned.

 

<P>Fog comes off the lake,

<BR>Like bubbles from a fountain.

<BR>As if sculpted by

<BR>Teen age pranksters.

<BR>Assimilated.

 

<P>Fog,

<BR>Shrouding my soup,

<BR>Cooking below

<BR>The surface.

 

<P>--

 

<P>Peace,

 

<P>Bentz

<BR>bocelts@scsn.net

<BR><A

 HREF="http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw">http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw</A>

<BR>&nbsp;</HTML>

 

--------------CA723C5BFAA837603DC21D2C--

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 12:56:00 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Czarnecki <peent@SERVTECH.COM>

Subject:      Iowa Writer's Workshops

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

dbr wrote:

 

>I didn't ever meet much from Writer's Workshop there.  Seemed like they

>either taught you how to stick your nose very high in the air and say

>I'm from the Writer's Workshop or they taught you how to bum money from

>poorer graduate students.  I was a bit taken by the mystique at first

>but soon got over it.  I remember walking through some foreign festival

>of writer's workshoppers talking with them about legends of iowa city

>and kissing the black angel in the cemetery and whatnot and invisibility

>at the hamburg inn and they didn't seem to have been taught anything

>about living within such legends and then integrating towards writing

>experiences.  Never really figures out what they did write about.

>

>So those of you who love the Iowa writer's workshop go ahead and blast

>me now.  I think i'd head west to boulder at drop of a nickel if looking

>into such things.

>

>dbr

 

This morning a friend said to me that I should put in the PR for my

upcoming reading tour of Iowa:

 

"Has not been part of the Iowa Writer's Workshops!"

 

Sounds like a good idea to me!

 

Iowa City is not on the schedule.

 

Michael C

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 13:26:46 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jenn Fedor <Tread37@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: membership

 

Marlene - you are so cute!  you mailed to the list and i got it!  that's

sooooo cool!  i'd like you to sign on too!  i just had to reply!  i know the

message wasn't even intended for me, but oh, well!  love ya!

 

as ever,

jenn

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 14:49:29 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James J Stavola <JDSept@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: A Love Supreme by John Coltrane.

 

obviously a great man COLTRANE

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

                                                                          his

sense of exploration is a mirror

                                                                           of

the writings of the beats

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

                                                                    obviously

a great man COLTRANE

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 11:52:45 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: hitchhiking

Comments: cc: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

I read it as meaning that he felt America was changing even then, but if

you hitchhiked in the same area at about the same time and didn't feel

it, then perhaps this is another way in which his depression caused him

to see the darker side of things.

 

 

Hello Diane,

 

I understand that you would like to accept Kerouac's passionate

interpretation of his spellbindingly related observations as representing

what was really out there. Look how bad it was getting to be. That would

confirm my beliefs about the continuous change, decaying of the old ways. I

appreciate your supportive intentions and I thank you for them.

 

There is an interesting aspect here that speaks to a question that you told

us was a bit perplexing to you, although you did later tell us that you

might have answered it for yourself. The queston was how could Kerouac put

aside such clear and beautiful realizations that he described so

exquisitely, with so much insight and wisdom, seemingly forget all that to

yield to  dark forces that ignored all that.

 

This genius-at-work story that is such a pleasure to read, tells me

something about your question. Like any person when depressed, brooding,

alienated and feeling helpless, feeling guilty and  feeling that his worth

is unappreciated by himself or others, always trying futilely to break out

of the prison that his mother's need for him keeps him in, because if he did

he would betray his mother who would be left feeling betrayed all alone,

unliked and ungiven to. She wanted him to stay in her world, the fence was

to hold im in out of the bad worlds outside. Her world was dark and lonesome

to be redeemed in heaven only if you are good and stay within bounds. He was

bad for even wanting to run away from her world. Also, God will punish him.

 

That does not make him observe any less. On the contrary, people when

depressed can start straining desperately  to notice every little detail.

Often they prefer dimly lit surroundings, or withdraw attention altogether,

partly because attention is too straining, a fatiguing effort. Minutest

details can become magnified until paranoia takes over. In my professional

practice days I have encountered incredibly detailed science fiction worlds,

where the the weave of magnified minutiae created astounding plausible

systems.

 

The dynamics of hypnotic story telling, oratory are interesting. Kerouac's

gift was not in objectivity of detached perspective, his huge intelligence,

gifts of observation and above all spellbinding story telling talents

(including speed of typing) were very much in service of desperate inner

struggles which always left him in defeat.

 

When I look at the piece, I see all of that. I don't see  objective or

reasonable outlook on anything. He just doesn't like anything that he sees,

in magnificently rousing detail, his horror filled eyes show him only

negative aspects of things. Visors, these excelent protectors from the sun,

become idiotic fashion statements, wifes all run their husbands lives, with

mysigenous lack of compassion, kids are always screaming and fighting,

etc..

 

Maybe I am belaboring the point too much. but I do feel that when confronted

with overpoweringly brilliant presentations, we can be so easily misled that

we are being shown things as they are, when in fact we see the magnificent

results of inner overpowering feelings transformed into outer realities.

The magnificent descriptions of Neal, in my opinion, also were determined

more by his desperate need to transform himself. Neal was a human

representation that encouraged the possibility of freeing himself, of

becoming someone that he wasn't. In his inner eye, by the light of his

magnifying lantern, visions and shadows were becoming exaggerations

approaching distortion. The stuff that hero worship is made off, that also

has bult in disappointment for when the time is ripe.

 

Beginning to sound to me like psychological tripe. Still I feel there is

truth in them confusing words. Maybe I should wait until I can say it in a

sentence or two. Anyway, it is because I respect your critical analyses so

much, that I am trying to clumsily communicate to you what I see here.

 

leon

 

 

 

 

 

 

Either see the darker side of things, or paint things over with the darker

side of himself. For example, the visors may have looked idiotic to him,

they are quite helpful to drivers in the bright sun. Nor is it likely that

the majority of wifes that he saw exercised such power over their husbands,

nor would I conclude on the basis of Jack'e desperate mood at the time, that

the kids were all such spoiled brats fighting and screaming all the time.

 

 

To me it seems that Jack was looking at everything, always,  with a foregone

conclusion that he wil be let down. No matter how promising he could make

whatever he was looking at outside the perimeter of mother's permitted

world. Wondering outside with a lantern that magnified and added brilliant

colors to everything he was looking at, taking snapshots and running

dazzling commentary to tell the world about his finds, he could convince the

world, but he himself was still shivering in the cold dark with a lantern in

his hand. Only at mother's home could he put that magnifying lantern down.

But it was dark and lonely there also.

 

 

 

 

 

 Jack was +ACI-sick of life+ACI- through most

of Big Sur and many of his older joys (and I would see hitchhiking as one

of them) no longer held much meaning for him.

DC

.-

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 17:23:20 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>

Subject:      "Listen all you boards and syndicates...."

Comments: cc: DAVIDSROSEN@compuserve.com

 

Fellow Travelers:

 

Lately, I have barely been able to keep up with the fertile threads, let

alone respond to them or contribute my own.  Two themes which have

particularly caught my attention are the ongoing discussion of sentimentality

(originated by Bill Gargan's question to the List as to whether this is a

general characteristic of Beat writing), and a more recent sub-theme

branching out of the hitchhhiking reminiscences toggled by Yan's asking us

whether it is still practiced here.

 

My Webster's New (very old and battered after decades of service, actually)

Collegiate Dictionary defines "sentimental" as "marked or governed by

feeling, sensibility, or emotional idealism...resulting from feeling rather

than reason or thought...having an excess of sentiment or sensibility".

 Applying these definitions to the Beats, especially William S. Burroughs and

Jack Kerouac, with whom I'm most familiar, I can see that they are partly

relevant to their works.  Certainly, both WSB and JK are tuned into their

feelings and sensibilities, if not altogether governed by them, in their

lives as much as their works.  In WSB's case, a lack of direction and

ungrounded feelings drifted toward junk "by default" (read his introduction

to JUNKY), which proceeded to govern his movements like those of an insect.

 A wandering sensitivity and alienation ironically led to the total

usurpation of sentiment while he was suspended in the metabolic grip, a mass

of "junk-hungry cells" clamoring to "drink from the needle".  His predicament

resulted more from feeling than from reason in the sense of sensibilities

with nowhere to roost in a senseless society (maybe I've been reading too

much Dr. Seuss to my son), but ultimately from neither, his High Junk Period,

so to speak, cleared a vacuum and filled it with an ongoing and narrow cycle

of need and its relief, "perhaps all pleasure is relief".   As for emotional

idealism, this is problematic.   He had deep emotions and was an idealist in

terms of being a truth-searching visionary, but he was not "governed...by

emotional idealism.  Anyway, in the later works, there is an aspect that

might be mistaken for sentimentality but which, I think, goes beyond it into

intimations of the supernatural, rather than sentimental.  In THE WESTERN

LANDS, which we were discussing before collectively crashing into the news of

his physical death, there is the prose-poetic phrase "Flashes of serene,

timeless joy.  A joy as old as suffering and despair".  Despite the

world-wariness and pessimism that characterize his works, they also record a

search to locate the elusive mental and emotional connection to the ethereal,

even as the space/time-trapped body is ground down by "...the claims of the

aging, cautious, nagging, frightened flesh".  In TWL as in other earlier and

later chapters of his "one long work", he probes and discards the historic

layers of cultural/religious/societal mechanisms of distraction and control,

where the celestial (or illusory material) reward is offered for towing the

line, and tries to get a real glimpse of what we're "here to go" to.  In the

case of TWL, it is the cumbersome and preposterous ancient Egyptian dogmas of

the afterlife that he gets past, in other cases it is the Mayan Codices, a

myriad of control agents in our supposedly enlightened current societal

structures and, of course, words themselves and the images they generate.

 

WSB and JK got much further past the hurdles than most, but what did they

find?  The disparity between the body and the spirit is not a Beat

phenomenon, it is the exclusively human phenomenon which they got especially

close to with an especially clear vision.  We are really only (self)

glorified, slower-motion versions of the leaves that are beginning to turn in

their eternal cycle here in Michigan as I write this, the "quivering meat

wheel", the process of life, if anything, is endless, not our own lives.  Yet

there IS a connection to that larger process through the life of the mind and

its emotions.  Is this "sentimentality" or "romanticism" in its stereotypical

image of maudlin excess, or an intimation of something just as real as

"reality"?  I think that the characterizing of WSB as severely UNsentimental

and of JK as overly so which is often found in commentary about them here and

elsewhere is deceiving, and misses the dimension of duality that they both

perceived and came to terms with.  WSB was impatient to get past the

illusions, to "smash the control images", but was not a nihilist, he

definitely believed that there IS something past them, read the works and his

own quotes (down to those last diary entries) and there's no doubt of it.

 His insistent pursuit of clarity and honesty might be mistaken for total

cynicism.  You might say he seeks a sentimentality beyond "sentimentality" as

it has been appropriated by the forces of control in all their manifestations

throughout history. And "serene, timeless joy" goes hand in hand with its

equally venerable counterpart, "suffering and despair".  The control

mechanisms he exposes purport to be the exclusive way to the former ("but

through (fill in the blank) can ye get through the gate"), and keep trying to

sever its connection to the latter while threatening its application to

maintain control.  After all, "serene, timeless joy" can't be defined or

valued without its counterpart.  And JK's image as a euphorically

rhapsodizing romanticist and mythologizer of himself, Neal, the very

processes of movement and life itself, belies a tragic sensibility that is as

much removed from "emotional idealism" as WSB.  In ON THE ROAD, he rushes

toward a river and all the freedom and movement that it symbolizes for him,

only to run right into a fence.  Our minds and emotions can catch the

"flashes", but while we're "here" before we "go" we can't quite get there

from here.  JK & NC have to keep moving to get their glimpse of IT, always

preceded by restless anticipation and followed by letdown and the renewed

buildup of restlessness.  One way to look at it is that he mythologizes,

romanticises and sentimentalizes, only to sharpen the contrast between

space/time bodily limitations and spiritual (sentimental?) infinity.  But

that river IS THERE, beyond the fence.

 

Well, it never fails- the more I try to focus, the more there seems to focus

on, and now there's no time to proceed to the other topic I mentioned at the

beginning.  I must stop, or jump out of the moving vehicle, or whatever.

 Since there's no way to conclude, here's a great quote that I think relates

to "everything and nothing", as JK would say, and to the struggle to

reconcile the body and the spirit.

 

"My dear, I'm working on the most marvelous invention...a boy who disappears

as soon as you come leaving a smell of burning leaves and a sound effect of

distant train whistles."

-WSB, NAKED LUNCH, pg. 111

 

Regards,

 

Arthur

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 17:22:07 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Iowa Writer's Workshops

In-Reply-To:  <v01530500b0403cd1d0af@[204.181.15.86]>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>dbr wrote:

>

>>I didn't ever meet much from Writer's Workshop there.  Seemed like they

>>either taught you how to stick your nose very high in the air and say

>>I'm from the Writer's Workshop or they taught you how to bum money from

>>poorer graduate students.  I was a bit taken by the mystique at first

>>but soon got over it.  I remember walking through some foreign festival

>>of writer's workshoppers talking with them about legends of iowa city

>>and kissing the black angel in the cemetery and whatnot and invisibility

>>at the hamburg inn and they didn't seem to have been taught anything

>>about living within such legends and then integrating towards writing

>>experiences.  Never really figures out what they did write about.

>>

>>So those of you who love the Iowa writer's workshop go ahead and blast

>>me now.  I think i'd head west to boulder at drop of a nickel if looking

>>into such things.

>>

>>dbr

>

>This morning a friend said to me that I should put in the PR for my

>upcoming reading tour of Iowa:

>

>"Has not been part of the Iowa Writer's Workshops!"

>

>Sounds like a good idea to me!

>

>Iowa City is not on the schedule.

>

>Michael C

 

When in Iowa City, look up poet Chuck Miller. With 7 or 8 published books

behind him and praise from such luminaries as Meridel LeSueur, he's

willing--and eager-- to discuss his experience with the Iowa Writer's

Workshop.

 

Referring tothe workshop as elitist is his mildest adjective.

 

Plus a conversation with Miller is always a stimulating experience.

Unfortunately he is not on-line.

 

j grant

 

 

Small Press Authors and Publishers display books

                FREE

                   at

                     BookZen

                   http://www.bookzen.com

        375,913 visitors - 07-01-96 to 07-01-97

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 07:05:58 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: hitchhiking

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> Leon Tabory wrote:

 

> To me it seems that Jack was looking at everything, always,  with a

> foregone

> conclusion that he wil be let down. No matter how promising he could

> make

> whatever he was looking at outside the perimeter of mother's permitted

> world. Wondering outside with a lantern that magnified and added

> brilliant

> colors to everything he was looking at, taking snapshots and running

> dazzling commentary to tell the world about his finds, he could

> convince the

> world, but he himself was still shivering in the cold dark with a

> lantern in

> his hand. Only at mother's home could he put that magnifying lantern

> down.

> But it was dark and lonely there also.

 

Leon,

 

All your perceptions here hit me as being so excellent!  Thank you

for not paring it down to a few sentences.  Took me back to the old woman

in the store window in OTR where he has that great epiphany about IT, and

he hears the woman saying "O son! did you not ever go on your knees and

pray for all your sins and scroundal's acts? Lost boy! Depart! Do not

haunt my soul..."  The whole hatred of self thing he was left with, the

depression, the drinking to numb it all.  And think about it, how many

thousands of people have been lifted by his magnificent descriptions of

life, and its brilliant struggles? But he couldn't reconcile inner and

outer realities, he was continually let down by people, let down by

America, or so he thought.  In a way his worldview was clouded by so much

psychological garbage (not that all of our's aren't), but your

observations on his mother are so acute:

 

> She wanted him to stay in her world, the fence was to hold him in out

> of the bad worlds outside.  Her world was dark and lonesome to be

> redeemed in heaven only if you are good and stay within bounds.  He was

> bad for even wanting to run away from her world.  Also, God will punish

> him.

 

In spite of getting out of the world of Lowell, Mass., having experences

in New York, Denver, San Francisco that were opposite poles from that

world; in spite of studying eastern religions, of finally being a

successful writer, he was never able to escape from the worldview of his

mother, his childhood.  And in the end, he dies young, and his mother

lives on.  From a psychological perspective, I think it also paints a

bleak picture of how entrapping family bonds and boundaries can be.

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 07:44:59 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: "Listen all you boards and syndicates...."

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> Arthur Nusbaum wrote:

> My Webster's New (very old and battered after decades of service,

> actually)

> Collegiate Dictionary defines "sentimental" as "marked or governed by

> feeling, sensibility, or emotional idealism...resulting from feeling

> rather

> than reason or thought...having an excess of sentiment or sensibility".

>  Applying these definitions to the Beats, especially William S.

> Burroughs and

> Jack Kerouac, with whom I'm most familiar, I can see that they are

> partly

> relevant to their works.  Certainly, both WSB and JK are tuned into

> their

> feelings and sensibilities, if not altogether governed by them,

 

If you take the meaning of sentimentality to be "marked...by emotional

idealism,"  I think you have to say that Burroughs, Kerouac, and Ginsberg

all then fit the definition to some extent.

 

>I think that the characterizing of WSB as severely UNsentimental and of

>JK as overly so which is so often found in commentary about them here

>and elsewhere is deceiving, and misses the dimension of duality that

>they both perceived and came to terms with...

 

I think in Kerouac, as a particular example, the sentimentality lies in

his descriptive ability and not in his sense of rushing toward the river

only to run into a fence.  The "serene, timeless joy" polarized against

"suffering and despair"  All of these are manifestations of his absolute

stuggle with the meaning of human life.  The dualities are reality not

emotional idealism.  It is passages like this one that, for me, take on

this sentimental quality (and who ever said sentimentalism carries a

negative connotation, anyway?):

 

"When I see a leaf fall, I always say goodbye--And that has a sound which

is lost unless there is a country stillness at which time I'm sure it

really rattles the earth, like ants in orchestras..." VOC pg. 10

 

or

"...We find the bar, rolling through October climaxes of leaves falling

and Halloween soon and I got red October shirt ah me so sad that every

year we have to lose our October!--poor little Rosie with her Thirties

style short dress, pretty legs, high click heels, pinched face, perennial

cigarette, drinksad eyes at the baron stool with little pimple this night

on chin where you might kiss her and it would break and I hated to look

at it though on her smooth face now in retrospect (and it's gone) it

memories sexily like a beauty spot kind I used to see on chins of old

movie queens in photos front of theatre--wondering if it was photo

ink..." VOC p. 13.

 

I'm not sure that Kerouac's sentimentality sharpens the contrast between

"space/time/body and infinity"; I think it's more an attitude that he

sometimes has that every little thing in human experience is important in

the whole of experience and by describing the hell out of things he is

able to transport us there, to what this moment in this bar was like, or

this moment in this diner was like, and it is there that sometimes the

qualities of senimentality and nostalgia merge.  But he has made us feel

we were there, right down to the colors of the walls and floor tile.  And

I think it is in this gushiness that he and Burroughs are on different

sides of the spectrum.

DC

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 19:00:04 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Wes Lundburg <lundburg@TCPNETS.COM>

Subject:      Japhy=Gary

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Hello, All.  I'm a former subscriber to the list who has now returned....

and I'm enjoying the threads.  Here's a possible new one:

 

Everybody knows that Japhy Ryder in _Dharma Bums_ is Gary Snyder, of

course, but has anybody else noticed a slip-up in the text at the end of

chapter 23?  (second to the last sentence there, in fact).  Kerouac writes:

 

"And I didn't wake up then till almost San Francisco in the morning.  I had

a dollar left and Gary was waiting for me at the shack.  The whole trip had

been as swift and enlightening as a dream, and I was back."

 

The "Gary" is actually in my text (the Penguin edition).  Does anybody know

if this is a mis-keying on Penguin's part, or did Kerouac forget to call

him Japhy?  I can't find any other editions on bookstore shelves to compare

it with.

 

---Wes

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:42:15 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Luther Allison

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

For those of you like James and Richard who like the blues, you might

want to check out the September 26, 1997, Vol 23. No. 20, Issue 448 of

Goldmine.  It has two pages of tributes to Luther Allison by his manager

and the likes of Otis Rush.

 

Peace,

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:20:05 +0000

Reply-To:     randyr@southeast.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Comments:     Authenticated sender is <randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>

From:         randy royal <randyr@MAILHUB.JAXNET.COM>

Subject:      Re: Japhy=Gary

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

 

> Everybody knows that Japhy Ryder in _Dharma Bums_ is Gary Snyder, of

> course, but has anybody else noticed a slip-up in the text at the end of

> chapter 23?  (second to the last sentence there, in fact).  Kerouac writes:

>

> "And I didn't wake up then till almost San Francisco in the morning.  I had

> a dollar left and Gary was waiting for me at the shack.  The whole trip had

> been as swift and enlightening as a dream, and I was back."

>

> The "Gary" is actually in my text (the Penguin edition).  Does anybody know

> if this is a mis-keying on Penguin's part, or did Kerouac forget to call

> him Japhy?  I can't find any other editions on bookstore shelves to compare

> it with.

if i remeber correctly, somebody brought this up a few months ago

right when i was leaving for vacation. does anyone have an old

save/memory?

> ---Wes

thanx

randy

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Sep 1997 00:53:42 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: software nightmare

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 09:40 AM 9/13/97 -0400, you wrote:

>insp d: i may be lost in cyberspace for a while. downloaded new netscape to

>free myself of eudora lite (worst mail program i ever had, can't download

>attachments, missed all those great pics and jpegs that were sent, now

>might loose all addresses, etc once i install in my intrepidly stupidity of

>changing systems. but i'm giving it a shot. i have same isp and address.

>wish me luck, all.

>

>>Derek A. Beaulieu wrote:

>>>

>>> re: unapproved absence from beat-L

>>>

>>> sgt.maj. A. Maloney

>>> Your admitting that you were in fact absent from beat-L without prior

>>> written approval from either myself or Insp. Marie Countryman will only

>>> make this disciplinary hearing easier. Your behavior was less than fitting

>>> for someone occupying sucha prestegious position with the NOva Police. I

>>> regretfully inform you that your rights and privledges regarding yr

>>> position and rank and how it pertains in regard to beat-L and beat

>>> Literature and Art in general is hereby under review. UNtil further notice

>>> from either Inspector MC or yslef consider your badge and gun revoked and

>>> yr position only slightly better than manny the mole.

>>>

>>> regretfully

>>> Inspector D. Beaulieu

>>> Nova POlice

>>

>>It was pre-approved by The Committee....

>>

>>THE COMMITTEE

>>

>>david rhaesa

>>salina, Kansas

>

>

My Eudora Lite downloaded the jpgs but I couldn't get the

pictures because they are mimes.  No problems downloading

with Lite, tho, just deciphering the pictures.

 

mike rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Sep 1997 04:54:13 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: software nightmare

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

> hey mike: i was able to down load patricia's jpegs of david and hat and ohle/

> however james stauffer's (hi jim!) files were deemed 'corrupted' by my

 netscape

> program. i'm getting the hang of the new "communicator' software. once i pass

> the techno-idiot stage, i'll be rock'n'rollin here. mc

 

 

 

> >

> >

> My Eudora Lite downloaded the jpgs but I couldn't get the

> pictures because they are mimes.  No problems downloading

> with Lite, tho, just deciphering the pictures.

>

> mike rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Sep 1997 05:16:03 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      hi wes and an appeal to all

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";

              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

sorry everyone: hi wes! glad you're back! could you please mail me directly,

so i can put you in new address book(changing mail programs totally crashed

and deleted all addresses.

btw: could everyone who is in the habit of backchannel chats with me just send

a 'test' message to me so that i can add you to new address book? right now

everytime i try to send privately, it goes directly to list address, can't

pull the individual addresses. with that i promise to stop whining and begging

on this topic.

thanks a bunch

mc

 

Wes Lundburg wrote:

 

> Hello, All.  I'm a former subscriber to the list who has now returned....

> and I'm enjoying the threads.  Here's a possible new one:

>

> Everybody knows that Japhy Ryder in _Dharma Bums_ is Gary Snyder, of

> course, but has anybody else noticed a slip-up in the text at the end of

> chapter 23?  (second to the last sentence there, in fact).  Kerouac writes:

>

> "And I didn't wake up then till almost San Francisco in the morning.  I had

> a dollar left and Gary was waiting for me at the shack.  The whole trip had

> been as swift and enlightening as a dream, and I was back."

>

> The "Gary" is actually in my text (the Penguin edition).  Does anybody know

> if this is a mis-keying on Penguin's part, or did Kerouac forget to call

> him Japhy?  I can't find any other editions on bookstore shelves to compare

> it with.

>

> ---Wes

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:08:00 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Out of This Planet. Au_er diesem Stern (bertolt brecht)

In-Reply-To:  <3.0.32.19970910135820.00688d8c@maila.wm.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

        Au_er diesem Stern

 

        Au_er diesem Stern, dachte ich, ist nichts und er

        Ist so verw|stet.

        Er allein ist unsere Zuflucht und die

        Sieht so aus.

        -- BERTOLT BRECHT

 

Out of this planet, I thought, there is not nothing, and it

is so desolate.

It is our shelter, and this

That is the way it is.

 

 

        Der Rauch

 

        Das kleine Haus unter Bdumen am See.

        Vom Dach steigt Rauch.

        Fehlte er

        Wie trostlos dann wdren

        Haus, Bdumen und See.

        -- BERTOLT BRECHT

 

The small house among to the trees on the lake.

>From the roof climbs the smoke.

If there is not smoke

house, trees and lake would be dismal.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Sep 1997 10:53:36 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Alex Howard <kh14586@ACS.APPSTATE.EDU>

Subject:      Joyce Johnson

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

I'm still trying to locate her.  Does ayone have any idea of where she

could be reached?  Publisher, college, etc.?

 

------------------

Alex Howard  (704)264-8259                    Appalachian State University

kh14586@am.appstate.edu                       P.O. Box 12149

http://www1.appstate.edu/~kh14586             Boone, NC  28608

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Sep 1997 10:13:43 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

Subject:      Re: Japhy=Gary

In-Reply-To:  <19970914002025112.AAA207@tcpnets.tcpnets.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Sat, 13 Sep 1997, Wes Lundburg wrote:

> Hello, All.  I'm a former subscriber to the list who has now returned....

> and I'm enjoying the threads.  Here's a possible new one:

> Everybody knows that Japhy Ryder in _Dharma Bums_ is Gary Snyder, of

> course, but has anybody else noticed a slip-up in the text at the end of

> chapter 23?  (second to the last sentence there, in fact).  Kerouac writes:

> "And I didn't wake up then till almost San Francisco in the morning.  I had

> a dollar left and Gary was waiting for me at the shack.  The whole trip had

> been as swift and enlightening as a dream, and I was back."

> The "Gary" is actually in my text (the Penguin edition).  Does anybody know

> if this is a mis-keying on Penguin's part, or did Kerouac forget to call

> him Japhy?  I can't find any other editions on bookstore shelves to compare

> it with.

> ---Wes

        well, the copy i have reads "I had a dollar left and Japhy was

waiting for me at the shack."

        Kerouac, Jack _The Dharma Bums_(New York: Signet; 1959,

                1967)pp.126-127

 

and by the way: as a side note: the cover blurb on my copy reads" THE

DHARMA BUMS by the man who launched the hippie world, the daddy of the

swinging psychedelic generation JACK KEROUAC, author of ON THE ROAD". what

a great blurb, huh? (smirk)

yrs

derek

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Sep 1997 10:15:05 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

Subject:      maya gorton?

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

hey there beat-l'ers

does anyone out there have maya's address as i would like to get in touch

with her but i have lost her address. thanks a bundle

yrs

derek

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:28:33 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Japhy=Gary

In-Reply-To:  <19970914002025112.AAA207@tcpnets.tcpnets.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Probably was an editor's screwup.  In writing Dharma Bums, Kerouac, as he

always did, typed it using real names.  Kerouac didnt write "Visions of

Cody", for instance, he wrote "Visions of Neal", the title and names were

changed by some editor preparing the book for publication after Kerouac's

death.  Neal had been dubbed "Cody" by editors preparing "Dharma Bums",

because for some legal reason they couldnt call him Dean Moriarty, and

years later I guess they didnt like the sound of "Visions of Dean".

 

Every time they did a book, some editor had to go back and change all the

names, because publishers were paranoid about lawsuits.  Having to deal

with editors was probably one reason Kerouac ended up drinking himself to

death.  This is like a great artist having some outsider come along after

a painting is finished and insisting on changing the colors.  The work

becomes something less than the author's exact vision.

 

This sort of confusion is why I think they should defer to Kerouac's own

wishes and come out with a new set of editions of the "DeLouz Legend"

books with the real names inserted, so the works look as Kerouac typed

them and conceived them.   So we can see the works as Kerouac saw them.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Sep 1997 08:18:57 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: Out of This Planet. Au_er diesem Stern (bertolt brecht)

MIME-Version: 1.0

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 Good Sunday Rinaldo

 

I am wondering about a couple of things on your translation.

First what does the _ stand for in Au_er

Then I wonder why you translate "er" he, with "it" which would be es. "Sieht

so aus" translates for me as "looks like that" If the _ replaces an "s" Then

the poem should translate

 

Ouside of this Star

 

Outside of this star there is nothing, and he

is so wasted.

He alone is our refuge and it

Looks like that.

 

Maybe I am quibbling here, but it sounds a little bit different to me. I

wonder why Brett uses  "he" here instead of it, but he does. I would seem

just as easy for him to say "es" as it wouldh "er" But "er" is what he

chose. I am inclined to think that he wants to say that our star is a he and

not an it. Also "looks like it" is not quite the same as "that's the way it

is". What are you thinking Rinaldo? The poetic license in the translation of

the second don't seem that important to me, so I will stop quibbling. Have a

nice Sunday, and thanks as usual.

 

ciao

 

leon

 

> From: Rinaldo Rasa

> Subject: Out of This Planet. Au_er diesem Stern (bertolt brecht)

 

 

 

>        Au_er diesem Stern

>

>        Au_er diesem Stern, dachte ich, ist nichts und er

>        Ist so verw|stet.

>        Er allein ist unsere Zuflucht und die

>        Sieht so aus.

>        -- BERTOLT BRECHT

>

>Out of this planet, I thought, there is not nothing, and it

>is so desolate.

>It is our shelter, and this

>That is the way it is.

>

>

>        Der Rauch

>

>        Das kleine Haus unter Bdumen am See.

>        Vom Dach steigt Rauch.

>        Fehlte er

>        Wie trostlos dann wdren

>        Haus, Bdumen und See.

>        -- BERTOLT BRECHT

>

>The small house among to the trees on the lake.

>From the roof climbs the smoke.

>If there is not smoke

>house, trees and lake would be dismal.

>.-

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Sep 1997 14:12:48 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         M84M79@AOL.COM

Subject:      Subscription

 

Marlene_Giraud

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Sep 1997 14:07:00 +0530

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Subscription

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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M84M79@AOL.COM wrote:

>

> Marlene_Giraud

 

welcome marlene!

we are a dangerous crew......

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kanas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:10:48 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Japhy=Gary

Comments: cc: DAVIDSROSEN@compuserve.com

 

Wes:

 

After reading your post, I checked my 1958 first edition of THE DHARMA BUMS,

and saw that the slip at the end of chapter 23 is there, referring to Gary

instead of Japhy.  Apparently, this original error (of consistency, anyway)

was repeated in some subsequent printings.  I agree with Richard Wallner that

the ficitional names in all of Kerouac's works should be changed back to the

real names he used when writing them and that every reader now knows.  By

now, the legal issues that probably were the reasons his editors insisted on

not using real names (and at least in a few cases the objection of the people

themselves depicted in his books) aren't likely to apply as strongly,

especially since many of the people are, like Kerouac, no longer alive.  The

following quote (which is on the back dust jacket flap of VISIONS OF CODY,

I'm not sure what writing it was taken from) proves that it was Kerouac's

intention to ultimately unify the whole "Duluoz Legend" and set the record

straight:

 

"In my old age, I intend to collect all my work and re-insert my pantheon of

uniform names, leave the long shelf full of books there, and die happy."

 

He died, neither old nor happy, with his intention unfulfilled.

 

Regards,

 

Arthur S. Nusbaum

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:21:35 +0000

Reply-To:     randyr@southeast.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Comments:     Authenticated sender is <randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>

From:         randy royal <randyr@MAILHUB.JAXNET.COM>

Subject:      correction

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

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> M84M79@AOL.COM wrote:

> >

> > Marlene_Giraud

>

> welcome marlene!

> we are a dangerous crew......

david- if marlene tried to send a subscription to the entire list,

one would assume that she isn't subscribed yet. don't worry, i

forward my original message of what to do to her.

> david rhaesa

> salina, Kanas

>

randy

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Sep 1997 19:52:47 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Skau <mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>

Subject:      hitchhiking

MIME-Version: 1.0

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What a great trainstory, Jo, and very well told.

For those interested in hopping trains or hitchhiking, I remember that we

use to tuck a folded $20 bill under the inside sole of a shoe (under the

toe end rather than the heel). Small (and big) town cops used to enjoy

busting longhairs, and a common charge was vagrancy. However, if you had

$20 or more in cash on you, you couldn't be charged as a vagrant.

Self-protection: a condom in your wallet and a twenty in your shoe.

Cordially,

Michael Skau

9/14/97

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Sep 1997 20:06:53 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject:      Re: hitchhiking

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.ULT.3.96.970914194606.26482A-100000@cwis.unomaha.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>What a great trainstory, Jo, and very well told.

>For those interested in hopping trains or hitchhiking, I remember that we

>use to tuck a folded $20 bill under the inside sole of a shoe (under the

>toe end rather than the heel). Small (and big) town cops used to enjoy

>busting longhairs, and a common charge was vagrancy. However, if you had

>$20 or more in cash on you, you couldn't be charged as a vagrant.

>Self-protection: a condom in your wallet and a twenty in your shoe.

>Cordially,

>Michael Skau

>9/14/97

 

Thanks Michael.

 

And by the way. I was just sitting here wondering how I was going to find a

copy of the post. Just got some requests for it. But when a checked my Sent

Mail and I discovered I didn't have the box checked to save my mail.

 

I recently switched systems and made the oversight when I re-installed

Eudora. If you have that piece of mail would you forward a copy to me?

 

Thanks.

 

jo

 

 

Small Press Authors and Publishers display books

                FREE

                   at

                     BookZen

                   http://www.bookzen.com

        375,913 visitors - 07-01-96 to 07-01-97

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Sep 1997 21:10:54 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Link page

MIME-Version: 1.0

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A friend of mine who knows that I am on this list sent me the following

link.  It leads back to many familiar sites like Levi's Kicks page.

But, if you are trying to learn about the Beats, it might be a good

resource page.  I found a site at Abeline Christian College that I had

not seen before.

 

http://www.netguide.com/Life/Arts

 

Peace,

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Sep 1997 20:28:26 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Wes Lundburg <lundburg@TCPNETS.COM>

Subject:      Re: Japhy=Gary

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Arthur Nusbaum quoted JK from the back of _Visions of Cody_:

 

 

"In my old age, I intend to collect all my work and re-insert my pantheon

of

uniform names, leave the long shelf full of books there, and die happy."

 

Thanks, Arthur... I've seen this quote many times, but somehow it takes on

a new meaning with the posts on this thread.  My experience with editors

has been, ahem, stretching in many ways, too.  Sure, they know their target

audience, want to avoid legal problems, etc, but I can see JK's

frustration... and relate to it.

 

Shalom,

---Wes

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Sep 1997 20:17:37 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Wes Lundburg <lundburg@TCPNETS.COM>

Subject:      Re: Japhy=Gary

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Richard:

 

Thanks!  Great response and great information....

 

---Wes

 

----------

> From: Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

> To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

> Subject: Re: Japhy=Gary

> Date: Sunday, September 14, 1997 12:28 PM

>

> Probably was an editor's screwup.  In writing Dharma Bums, Kerouac, as he

> always did, typed it using real names.  Kerouac didnt write "Visions of

> Cody", for instance, he wrote "Visions of Neal", the title and names were

> changed by some editor preparing the book for publication after Kerouac's

> death.  Neal had been dubbed "Cody" by editors preparing "Dharma Bums",

> because for some legal reason they couldnt call him Dean Moriarty, and

> years later I guess they didnt like the sound of "Visions of Dean".

>

> Every time they did a book, some editor had to go back and change all the

> names, because publishers were paranoid about lawsuits.  Having to deal

> with editors was probably one reason Kerouac ended up drinking himself to

> death.  This is like a great artist having some outsider come along after

> a painting is finished and insisting on changing the colors.  The work

> becomes something less than the author's exact vision.

>

> This sort of confusion is why I think they should defer to Kerouac's own

> wishes and come out with a new set of editions of the "DeLouz Legend"

> books with the real names inserted, so the works look as Kerouac typed

> them and conceived them.   So we can see the works as Kerouac saw them.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:22:09 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane De Rooy <Ddrooy@AOL.COM>

Subject:      new from City Lights

 

Chatted today with Charles Plymell, 9/14/97. Told him I'd post this to

Beat-L:

====================================

"The source of power resides in the interstices between one world and

another, between the known and the unknown, between who we are and who we are

becoming.  It is our willingness to put an ear to the ground that brings the

trembling of horses from a far distance.  We become like the moving water,

taking the river bed with us as we go.  The universe loves devoted travelers.

 We are her witnesses."

----Janine Pommy Vega, Tracking the Serpent.

The book begins with her as a 16 year old meeting Huncke and Allen and moving

in with Allen's friend Elise.

She's gotten pretty good reviews except one. In essence the reviewer said she

needed to get fucked.

cp

==================

diane

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Sep 1997 21:33:33 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Wes Lundburg <lundburg@TCPNETS.COM>

Subject:      for marie countryman

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

sorry listers....

 

marie, I've lost your address.  Would you e-mail me directly?

 

---Wes

lundburg@tcpnets.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:51:13 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "PoOka(the friendly ghost)" <jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>

Subject:      kerouac and cliff's notes.

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

for those of you who know about these dreadful yellow/black booklets that

many adolescent summer readers turn to instead of reading the book,

cliff's notes has published many cheat summaries of stories including a

recent one, "the Invisible Man" by Ellison and by other great writers.

What if somehow "On the Road" was pillaged and turned into a 45 pg

summary book? Would this encourage young readers to read the whole thing

or just to skim it in time for september english classes? Either way i

couldn't begin to fathom the results of taking "naked lunch" or any other

liteary masterpiece and condence it into a paper-thin booklet.

                                paranoid and frightened of

                                pillaged literature,

                                                jason.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:03:51 -0400

Reply-To:     Greg Elwell <elwellg@voicenet.com>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Greg Elwell <elwellg@VOICENET.COM>

Subject:      Article about Lowell

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: multipart/alternative;

              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01BCC162.776CB520"

 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

 

------=_NextPart_000_0000_01BCC162.776CB520

Content-Type: text/plain;

        charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

 Over the weekend I was reading my newspaper's Travel section, when I =

stumbled upon an article about Lowell.  It mentions Kerouac and all, and =

about the Lowell Celebrates Kerouac festival.  I found an on-line =

version at this address:

 

http://www.phillynews.com/inquirer/97/Sep/14/travel/LOWEL14.htm

 

ENJOY!

 

Greg Elwell=20

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0000_01BCC162.776CB520

Content-Type: text/html;

        charset="iso-8859-1"

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">

<HTML>

<HEAD>

 

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =

http-equiv=3DContent-Type>

<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1008.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>

</HEAD>

<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>

<P><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;Over the weekend I =

was reading my=20

newspaper's Travel section, when I stumbled upon an article about =

Lowell.&nbsp;=20

It mentions Kerouac and all, and about the Lowell Celebrates Kerouac=20

festival.&nbsp; I found an on-line version at this address:</FONT></P>

<P><A=20

href=3D"http://www.phillynews.com/inquirer/97/Sep/14/travel/LOWEL14.htm">=

http://www.phillynews.com/inquirer/97/Sep/14/travel/LOWEL14.htm</A>

<P>ENJOY!

<P><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>Greg Elwell =

</FONT></P></BODY></HTML>

 

------=_NextPart_000_0000_01BCC162.776CB520--

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:39:48 +0530

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: "Listen all you boards and syndicates...."

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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Arthur Nusbaum wrote:

>

> Fellow Travelers:

>

> Lately, I have barely been able to keep up with the fertile threads, let

> alone respond to them or contribute my own.  Two themes which have

> particularly caught my attention are the ongoing discussion of sentimentality

> (originated by Bill Gargan's question to the List as to whether this is a

> general characteristic of Beat writing), and a more recent sub-theme

> branching out of the hitchhhiking reminiscences toggled by Yan's asking us

> whether it is still practiced here.

>

> My Webster's New (very old and battered after decades of service, actually)

> Collegiate Dictionary defines "sentimental" as "marked or governed by

> feeling, sensibility, or emotional idealism...resulting from feeling rather

> than reason or thought...having an excess of sentiment or sensibility".

>  Applying these definitions to the Beats, especially William S. Burroughs and

> Jack Kerouac, with whom I'm most familiar, I can see that they are partly

> relevant to their works.  Certainly, both WSB and JK are tuned into their

> feelings and sensibilities, if not altogether governed by them, in their

> lives as much as their works.  In WSB's case, a lack of direction and

> ungrounded feelings drifted toward junk "by default" (read his introduction

> to JUNKY), which proceeded to govern his movements like those of an insect.

>  A wandering sensitivity and alienation ironically led to the total

> usurpation of sentiment while he was suspended in the metabolic grip, a mass

> of "junk-hungry cells" clamoring to "drink from the needle".  His predicament

> resulted more from feeling than from reason in the sense of sensibilities

> with nowhere to roost in a senseless society (maybe I've been reading too

> much Dr. Seuss to my son), but ultimately from neither, his High Junk Period,

> so to speak, cleared a vacuum and filled it with an ongoing and narrow cycle

> of need and its relief, "perhaps all pleasure is relief".   As for emotional

> idealism, this is problematic.   He had deep emotions and was an idealist in

> terms of being a truth-searching visionary, but he was not "governed...by

> emotional idealism.  Anyway, in the later works, there is an aspect that

> might be mistaken for sentimentality but which, I think, goes beyond it into

> intimations of the supernatural, rather than sentimental.  In THE WESTERN

> LANDS, which we were discussing before collectively crashing into the news of

> his physical death, there is the prose-poetic phrase "Flashes of serene,

> timeless joy.  A joy as old as suffering and despair".  Despite the

> world-wariness and pessimism that characterize his works, they also record a

> search to locate the elusive mental and emotional connection to the ethereal,

> even as the space/time-trapped body is ground down by "...the claims of the

> aging, cautious, nagging, frightened flesh".  In TWL as in other earlier and

> later chapters of his "one long work", he probes and discards the historic

> layers of cultural/religious/societal mechanisms of distraction and control,

> where the celestial (or illusory material) reward is offered for towing the

> line, and tries to get a real glimpse of what we're "here to go" to.  In the

> case of TWL, it is the cumbersome and preposterous ancient Egyptian dogmas of

> the afterlife that he gets past, in other cases it is the Mayan Codices, a

> myriad of control agents in our supposedly enlightened current societal

> structures and, of course, words themselves and the images they generate.

>

> WSB and JK got much further past the hurdles than most, but what did they

> find?  The disparity between the body and the spirit is not a Beat

> phenomenon, it is the exclusively human phenomenon which they got especially

> close to with an especially clear vision.  We are really only (self)

> glorified, slower-motion versions of the leaves that are beginning to turn in

> their eternal cycle here in Michigan as I write this, the "quivering meat

> wheel", the process of life, if anything, is endless, not our own lives.  Yet

> there IS a connection to that larger process through the life of the mind and

> its emotions.  Is this "sentimentality" or "romanticism" in its stereotypical

> image of maudlin excess, or an intimation of something just as real as

> "reality"?  I think that the characterizing of WSB as severely UNsentimental

> and of JK as overly so which is often found in commentary about them here and

> elsewhere is deceiving, and misses the dimension of duality that they both

> perceived and came to terms with.  WSB was impatient to get past the

> illusions, to "smash the control images", but was not a nihilist, he

> definitely believed that there IS something past them, read the works and his

> own quotes (down to those last diary entries) and there's no doubt of it.

>  His insistent pursuit of clarity and honesty might be mistaken for total

> cynicism.  You might say he seeks a sentimentality beyond "sentimentality" as

> it has been appropriated by the forces of control in all their manifestations

> throughout history. And "serene, timeless joy" goes hand in hand with its

> equally venerable counterpart, "suffering and despair".  The control

> mechanisms he exposes purport to be the exclusive way to the former ("but

> through (fill in the blank) can ye get through the gate"), and keep trying to

> sever its connection to the latter while threatening its application to

> maintain control.  After all, "serene, timeless joy" can't be defined or

> valued without its counterpart.  And JK's image as a euphorically

> rhapsodizing romanticist and mythologizer of himself, Neal, the very

> processes of movement and life itself, belies a tragic sensibility that is as

> much removed from "emotional idealism" as WSB.  In ON THE ROAD, he rushes

> toward a river and all the freedom and movement that it symbolizes for him,

> only to run right into a fence.  Our minds and emotions can catch the

> "flashes", but while we're "here" before we "go" we can't quite get there

> from here.  JK & NC have to keep moving to get their glimpse of IT, always

> preceded by restless anticipation and followed by letdown and the renewed

> buildup of restlessness.  One way to look at it is that he mythologizes,

> romanticises and sentimentalizes, only to sharpen the contrast between

> space/time bodily limitations and spiritual (sentimental?) infinity.  But

> that river IS THERE, beyond the fence.

>

> Well, it never fails- the more I try to focus, the more there seems to focus

> on, and now there's no time to proceed to the other topic I mentioned at the

> beginning.  I must stop, or jump out of the moving vehicle, or whatever.

>  Since there's no way to conclude, here's a great quote that I think relates

> to "everything and nothing", as JK would say, and to the struggle to

> reconcile the body and the spirit.

>

> "My dear, I'm working on the most marvelous invention...a boy who disappears

> as soon as you come leaving a smell of burning leaves and a sound effect of

> distant train whistles."

> -WSB, NAKED LUNCH, pg. 111

>

> Regards,

>

> Arthur

 

A couple of definitions from my "The New Webster Dictionary and Complete

Vest-Pocket Library ... 45,800 words..." Copyright 1893, 1894 purchased

for a buck at The Source Bookstore in Davenport Iowa back around 1993 or

1994.

 

Miraculous. "Supernatural"

Invention.  Invent.  "find out; devise; frame; forge."

Sentimentality.  "Affectedly Tender."

Affect.  "Influence.  Assume."

Tender.  "to offer; sensitive, kind; delicate."

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:17:56 +0530

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: "Listen all you boards and syndicates...."

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Diane Carter wrote:

>

> I'm not sure that Kerouac's sentimentality sharpens the contrast between

> "space/time/body and infinity";

 

Kerouac's examination of these things is very different than Burroughs

because JK looks at these through the prism of his physical experiences

while Burroughs through experiencing the dark humour of imagination.  To

limit the idea of experience (and i'm not sure you're doing this) to the

"REAL" world is a very very limiting perception.  Burroughs being born

into a different chemistry was sensitive to the imagination and keen to

every intricacy therein in the same way as Kerouac was sensitive to the

imagination in the physically visible.

 

dbr

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:00:41 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re: More Berthold Brecht:  The Smoke     Out of This Planet.

              Au_er diesem Stern (bertolt brecht)

MIME-Version: 1.0

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-----Original Message-----

From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Sunday, September 14, 1997 4:47 AM

 

> Ok I received a backchanell challenge. What poetic license?

Here is what I believe a more literal translation of Der Rauch would be:

 

The Smoke

 

The small house under tress by the lake

>From roof rises smoke

He felt

How bereft of trust  (untrustworthy) then became

House, trees and lake

 

 

 Original German:

 

>        Der Rauch

>

>        Das kleine Haus unter Bdumen am See.

>        Vom Dach steigt Rauch.

>        Fehlte er

>        Wie trostlos dann wdren

>        Haus, Bdumen und See.

>        -- BERTOLT BRECHT

>

 

Rinaldo's translation:

 

>The small house among to the trees on the lake.

>From the roof climbs the smoke.

>If there is not smoke

>house, trees and lake would be dismal.

>.-

>Under the trees by the lake is not quite the same as among the trees on the

lake.

> There is nothing that says "if there is not smoke" in the original

> The implication of untrustworthy is not quite the same as dismal.

 

I do not cherish making these corrections (?)  and I would be the first one

to agree that it may be trifling. If we don't need such nitpicking on the

list, I will gladly stop it.   But,, here I go correcting and I have left

out " I thought" from the first line of "Outside of this star" poem , and

even misspelled Brecht's name. I am no one to point fingers, but I do

believe my corrections are accurate, and a challenge is a challenge.  I love

all your contributions to the list Rinaldo. Bless you.

 

leon

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:38:41 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Comments:     Authenticated sender is <sk312@pophost.city.ac.uk>

From:         Daniel Fascione <m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>

Subject:      subscription - OFF

 

Aplogies for posting this to the whole of the list, but could someone

send me deatils of how to subscribe to this list.

 

Thanks in advanced

 

Daniel

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 05:25:07 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: hitchhiking in New Hampshire

 

The last hitchhiker I picked up was Soloman Paul Hobbes. He told me how he

was hitchhiking in New Hampshire one night and set up his sleeping bag at

what he thought was a deserted house. In the middle of the night, he gets an

eerie feeling, looks out from under sleeping bag and sees a mountain lion. He

starts staring the mountain lion down, while slowly gathering his stuff. The

mountain lion just stared back. Soloman slowly backed down the road

backwards, eyeing the mountain lion, with his gathered stuff in his arms

until the mountain lion was out of sight. He walked down the road and came to

an abandoned old farmhouse, and he slowly made his way in. On the second

floor he found an old bed, and he knew that this was where the mountain lion

slept. So he set up his sleeping bag and slept there, surrounded by old tin

cans that he set up as a barrier to warn him in case the mountain lion came

back in while he was still sleeping.

 

I dropped Soloman off in San Anselmo, not far from San Quentin, and he gave

me a pen. It was a nice pen.

 

He also said that Calvin and Hobbs was named after him.

 

so it goes, Attila

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 06:00:13 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: kerouac and cliff's notes.

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 10:51 PM 9/14/97 -0400, you wrote:

>for those of you who know about these dreadful yellow/black booklets that

>many adolescent summer readers turn to instead of reading the book,

>cliff's notes has published many cheat summaries of stories including a

>recent one, "the Invisible Man" by Ellison and by other great writers.

>What if somehow "On the Road" was pillaged and turned into a 45 pg

>summary book? Would this encourage young readers to read the whole thing

>or just to skim it in time for september english classes? Either way i

>couldn't begin to fathom the results of taking "naked lunch" or any other

>liteary masterpiece and condence it into a paper-thin booklet.

>                                paranoid and frightened of

>                                pillaged literature,

>                                                jason.

>

>

If otr is taught, it is certainly cliff-noted, isn't it.  The only

way it wouldn't be is if the Kerouac estate said no, or is that

true?  Don't really know myself.

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:06:50 -0400

Reply-To:     cosmicat@erols.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         cosmicat@EROLS.COM

Subject:      Re: maya gorton?

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Derek A. Beaulieu wrote:

>

> hey there beat-l'ers

> does anyone out there have maya's address as i would like to get in touch

> with her but i have lost her address. thanks a bundle

> yrs

> derek

 

maya gorton: marioka7@aol.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 08:42:34 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>

Subject:      howdy

 

just wanted to say hi and please write to me....i'm not re-subscribed so

don't post me a message on the list but write to me personally.  hope you're

all well. I saw Jim Caroll read day before yerster. It was invigorating.

 He's a great storyteller.  know of any of his stuff on the web anyone?

 

---------maya

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:48:28 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Re: More Berthold Brecht

In-Reply-To:  <9709142201.aa14683@mail.cruzio.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Leon,

 

i'm sure yr knowing of german language is the best,

        yr translation helped to open my eyes,

 

(mine is only to the very very lowest level, having some

relatives emigrates in germany and suisse, (others in Canada),

but this isn't a matter that justify to translate Bertolt Brecht.)

 

i've tempted to react to brecht's poems as Zen Poetry

                                _koan_

 

of course, i'm always have been a great admirer

of brecht's theatre & poetry (i.e. Beggar's Opera collaboration

with Kurt Weill) despite his political choice, brecht is

a valuable man, his approach to chinese lit is laudable,

in the early 70's i was an avid reader for brecht's works,

but unlike the Beats i read brecht in translation and a bit

to following the german language,

 

now u are right, that Stern is "Star" and not "Planet",

the word "au_er" is "ausser" meaning the _=ss as in "Strasse",

the word "verw|stet" is |=u: "u" umlau

 

in the poem Der Rauch

the word "Bdumen" the "d" is "a" umlau

the same for "Bduame" and "wdren"

 

what i was surprised was that the listserv has not recognized

the german alphabet 'cuz i've post correctly the character but

tha lserver transform them in anonymous character, if this

happen to language with characters not english-like (i.e.

german, spanish, french) i have surprised again. with italian

the snag is smaller or non-existent 'cuz the stressed character

are easily transform as "a acute or a grave" a', ... etc, if

a chinese or japanese wish to post in his native language there's

impossible, i'm afraid,

 

the bertolt brecht's post crossed in my mind as unconscious

i apologies,

 

cari saluti a tutti da

Rinaldo.

 

At 22.00 14/09/97 -0700, Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM> wrote:

>-----Original Message-----

>From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>Date: Sunday, September 14, 1997 4:47 AM

>

>> Ok I received a backchanell challenge. What poetic license?

>Here is what I believe a more literal translation of Der Rauch would be:

>

>The Smoke

>

>The small house under tress by the lake

>>From roof rises smoke

>He felt

>How bereft of trust  (untrustworthy) then became

>House, trees and lake

>

>

> Original German:

>

>>        Der Rauch

>>

>>        Das kleine Haus unter Bdumen am See.

>>        Vom Dach steigt Rauch.

>>        Fehlte er

>>        Wie trostlos dann wdren

>>        Haus, Bdumen und See.

>>        -- BERTOLT BRECHT

>>

>

>Rinaldo's translation:

>

>>The small house among to the trees on the lake.

>>From the roof climbs the smoke.

>>If there is not smoke

>>house, trees and lake would be dismal.

>>.-

>>Under the trees by the lake is not quite the same as among the trees on the

>lake.

>> There is nothing that says "if there is not smoke" in the original

>> The implication of untrustworthy is not quite the same as dismal.

>

>I do not cherish making these corrections (?)  and I would be the first one

>to agree that it may be trifling. If we don't need such nitpicking on the

>list, I will gladly stop it.   But,, here I go correcting and I have left

>out " I thought" from the first line of "Outside of this star" poem , and

>even misspelled Brecht's name. I am no one to point fingers, but I do

>believe my corrections are accurate, and a challenge is a challenge.  I love

>all your contributions to the list Rinaldo. Bless you.

>

>leon

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:19:07 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: kerouac and cliff's notes.

In-Reply-To:  Message of Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:51:13 -0400 from

              <jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU>

 

It has been -- Monarch notes includes it in their Beat writers pamphlet.  It ma

y be long out of print.  Frankly, I'm surprised that there isn't a Cliff Notes

version.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:03:26 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Neil Hennessy <nhenness@UWATERLOO.CA>

Subject:      Re: "Listen all you boards and syndicates...."

In-Reply-To:  <970913171957_-1933747394@emout04.mail.aol.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Sat, 13 Sep 1997, Arthur Nusbaum wrote:

 

> relevant to their works.  Certainly, both WSB and JK are tuned into their

> feelings and sensibilities, if not altogether governed by them, in their

> lives as much as their works.  In WSB's case, a lack of direction and

> ungrounded feelings drifted toward junk "by default" (read his introduction

> to JUNKY), which proceeded to govern his movements like those of an insect.

>  A wandering sensitivity and alienation ironically led to the total

> usurpation of sentiment while he was suspended in the metabolic grip, a mass

> of "junk-hungry cells" clamoring to "drink from the needle".

 

In terms of motivation, rather than just "lack of direction and

ungrounded feelings", you have to add a fierce curiousity and a scientific

approach to experimentation in all aspects of life. Burroughs has referred

to his work as "pure science", and when faced with a self-imposed

question, he was fond of Korzybski's line "I don't know, let's find out."

His search for Yage is a perfect example of how Burroughs was extremely

directed and motivated by the need to experiment. Assigning clear-cut

motives and causes for people's actions is a dubious undertaking, but I

think there are more factors in Burroughs' case that need to be

considered.

 

In no way could the Burroughs of the cut-up trilogy be called sentimental,

since all feelings were subsumed or controlled by the need/fix dichotomy

of junk (or control structures operating like junk, as in the Love Con).

You're bang on there Arthur, but here I think you go astray:

 

>   As for emotional

> idealism, this is problematic.   He had deep emotions and was an idealist in

> terms of being a truth-searching visionary, but he was not "governed...by

> emotion.

 

I have a problem with the term "truth-searching visionary" when applied to

Burroughs, who espoused as a dictum above all others Hassan I Sabbah's

"Nothing is True. Everything is Permitted." An ideal, singular "truth" was

foreign to Burroughs' understanding of the world, as it smacks of the

Right Virus (and all the attendant evil pinch-faced decent church-going

women). His belief in a polytheistic universe of many Gods is a testament

to his escape from the religious-based logocentrism that characterizes so

much of Western thought.

 

Burroughs was more of a freedom-fighting visionary in his efforts to

escape Control.

 

> WSB and JK got much further past the hurdles than most, but what did they

> find?  The disparity between the body and the spirit is not a Beat

> phenomenon, it is the exclusively human phenomenon which they got especially

> close to with an especially clear vision.

 

Hmm, Burroughs (in the cut-up trilogy anyway) had an extreme revulsion for

the body that is singular in Western literature, and in that way he tows

the Christian orthodox line. The setting up of a mind/body and

emotion/intellect dichotomy is one of the cornerstones of Western

philosophy, present from Plato to Descartes and beyond. Whether this is an

"exclusively human phenomenon" depends entirely on whether you believe it.

In opposition to that view, I refer you to Blake-- so beloved of

Ginsberg-- who won't accept the Western separation of mind and

body, and the body's attendant degradation.

 

"Prisons are built with stones of Law, Brothels with bricks of Religion."

William Blake

 

Neil

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:29:50 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jonathan Pickle <jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Just got back from a couple days in the woods reading Some of the Dharma -

Almost, if not more, as artistic as VOC.

 

Was reading article last night about Kerouac, saying he died a racist.  Can

anyone tell me anything about this?

 

                                                        -Jon

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:51:03 -0400

Reply-To:     mike@buchenroth.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@BUCHENROTH.COM>

Organization: Buchenroth Publishing Co

Subject:      Literature Online or consciousness evolution tax?

Comments: To: webmaster@chadwyck.com

Comments: cc: cveditions@aol.com

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

 

Dear Chadwyck-Healey Ltd Webmaster:

 

Why would I or anyone else pay for access to your literary database when

practically everything you store exists elsewhere in public domain free?

Your site taxes the spirit of the web; defrauds the human species . . .

***

The evolution of human consciousness, if up to institutions such as

Chadwyck-Healey Ltd, would begin immediately following birth with an

electrode implantation into each new-born human brain stem connected via

infra red to a meter not much different than an electric usage meter

power companies now employ on the side of houses to measure and bill

customer electricity usage! Only your meter would measure and charge

thought, for learning each new declamation; every CNS protoplasmic

propagation, aha potassium reduction the wheel spins 10-cents faster;

sodium rushing in there location cell AX2956892919 degrees,

BY2956891219568 degrees, CZ34589, the meter trips signaling Dave's

Culligan on Main Street that humanoid Dave2001xyz99 needs electrolyte

home delivery (must keep protoplasmic harmony, electrolytic super

efficiency, the business plans calls for it) the power grid network'd

measures blip blip, somewhere a first grader for first time speaks

"Alice meets Jip. See Jip run? Run Jip run." Elsewhere the grid hums,

Chuckie learns a pun.

***

"Ouch, I burnt myself!" thinks the baby, "That flame means pain. Do not

touch from now on. OK?"

***

Kabing, Chadwyck-Healey Ltd's thought meter accrues $2.99 for

significant life-preserving lesson. Around universities and public

education facilities huge power grid networked measuring stations would

process abundantly.

***

It was a dark and stormy night, as Chuckie thinks, (sentence cost=$9.95)

"Who'll stop the acid rain, (sentence/question cost=$4.95)

The chadwyck clouds beat down upon us? ($1.95)

Oh well, I'll continue reading,

'Steal This Book' (5th edition),

Introduction to Chapter Two,

Chadwyck-Healey Thought Meter Removal,

'Steal This Book' is, in a way, a manual of survival in the prison that

is Chadwyck-Healey's Amerika. It preaches jailbreak. It shows you where

and exactly how to place the dynamite that will destroy the walls. The

first section- SURVIVE!-lays out a program for the most important

lesson-get rid of that damn meter! This action separates revolutionaries

from outlaws . . .

***

Ah-ooooo-ga!!!

Ah-ooooo-ga!!!

***

Charge all funds left in e-wallet, then apprehend,

Charge all funds left in e-wallet, then apprehend,

then apprehend

apprehend . . .

(dots will echo)

. . .

***

Reports,  speeches,  papers,  essays,  addresses,  $1.95 per occurrence;

Analyses,  themes,  lectures,  discourses, orations $2.95 each;

Homilies,  diatribes,  harangues,  philippics,  allocutions,

verbalizations,  words,  tongues $.99;

Declamations ~special today only~ 25-cents;

Morals,  maxims,  adages $5.99 first occurrence, $1.99 thereafter;

Cautions,  admonitions,  warnings,  deterrents, . . .

Oxymoron recognition $8.99

***

Evolution of consciousness will occur only when the Chadwyck-Healey

consortium schemes to not only charge for thought,

but to sell it as well,

(tax the tax)

hell!

2+2=$5.00,

Chadwyck-Healey network'd vendors on steps sell,

Thought at each educational pillar!

Good luck in your space~time~string.

Ah, your meter just dinged.

***

--

Michael L. Buchenroth

Buchenroth Publishing Company

www.buchenroth.com

mike@buchenroth.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 13:33:56 -0500

Reply-To:     Matthew S Sackmann <msackma@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Matthew S Sackmann <msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Visions of America

In-Reply-To:  <3.0.32.19970911193636.0069ede4@maila.wm.edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, Jonathan Pickle wrote:

 

> At 04:43 PM 9/11/97 -0500, you wrote:

> >On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, chenxiao wrote:

> >

> >> Folks over there, is hitchhiking still easy thing in this continent as

> in the

> >>  OTR time?

> >>

> >> Hitchhike to America, hitchhike to moon;

> >> with bag empty, with hair long.

> >>

> >> ciao

> >> yan

> >>

> >I'm afraid not, Yan.  It's illegal in many places.  Most depressing thing

> >in the world is to see a road sign with a thumb up held with a big red

> >slash across it.  and you read or hear about people getting killed, raped

> >. . . all the time .  I was lucky enough to hitch 1600 miles down the

> >Alaskan-Highway last year, through Canada.  It was fairly easy for us.

> >But Canada and Alaska are a lot different than the rest of the U.S.

> >

> >i like your little poem.  reminds me of Jack's "Visions of America."

> >

> >-matt

> >

> >

> Matt - Ive been searching for "Visions of America" for two years and cant

> seem to find it except through this internet bookdealer who wants 125

> dollars for it which of course I don't have.  Do you know of a way of how I

> could get it cheeper?

>

>

>                                                                 -Jon

>

 

Hmmm...I may have misled you Jon.  I was talking about a little poem that

starts a essay in Lonesome Traveler.  Goes something like this.

 

Visions of America

All that hitchhiking

All that [oh man, my memory is bad,  what does he say here?]

All that coming back

        to America

 

The exact quote is not neccessary.  It's nice sometimes, but it is not

neccessary.  Sorry i led you astray.  I've heard of the Visions of America

that you speak of, but little other than that.  Maybe some other

listmembers would be kind enough to fill us in.

 

And coming down from a high i opened up Some of the Dharma to a random

page, and this is what i read:

 

"God is a warm idea for the cool void."

 

Makes perfect sense, doesn't it?

-matt

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:30:13 +0000

Reply-To:     randyr@southeast.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Comments:     Authenticated sender is <randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>

From:         randy royal <randyr@MAILHUB.JAXNET.COM>

Subject:      Re: hitchhiking in New Hampshire

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

 

nice story.

> He also said that Calvin and Hobbs was named after him.

tell him he was named after a sixteen(?) hundred philospher

> so it goes, Attila

>

randy

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:57:53 -0400

Reply-To:     "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>

Subject:      Re: kerouac and cliff's notes.

 

Reply to message from jdematte@TURBO.KEAN.EDU of Sun, 14 Sep

>

>for those of you who know about these dreadful yellow/black booklets that

>many adolescent summer readers turn to instead of reading the book,

>cliff's notes has published many cheat summaries of stories including a

>recent one, "the Invisible Man" by Ellison and by other great writers.

>What if somehow "On the Road" was pillaged and turned into a 45 pg

>summary book? Would this encourage young readers to read the whole thing

>or just to skim it in time for september english classes? Either way i

>couldn't begin to fathom the results of taking "naked lunch" or any other

>liteary masterpiece and condence it into a paper-thin booklet.

>                                paranoid and frightened of

>                                pillaged literature,

>                                                jason.

 

"A NOTE TO THE READER: THESE NOTES ARE NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR THE TEXT ITSELF

OR FOR THE CLASSROOM DISCUSSION OF THE TEXT, AND STUDENTS WHO ATTEMPT TO

USE THEM IN THIS WAY ARE DENYING THEMSELVES THE VERY EDUCATION THAT THEY

ARE PRESUMABLY GIVING THEIR MOST VITAL YEARS TO ACHIEVE."

 

This is the "surgeon general's warning" (as i like to term it) found in the

beginning of Cliffs Notes.  I thought it was so funny that it was my sig

file for about a month.  if it hadn't been for cliffs notes, i would not

have survived my 18th century lit course.  this was partly because we found

the material so dull & uninspiring, the professor didn't even want to teach

it.  But I digress.  IN my opinion, as a current high school student

teacher (meaning I don't yet have my certification), if OTR ever becomes

high school canon lit, there will be Cliffs Notes.  because there always

will be someone who really doesn't want to read it after all & looks for

the short cut.  The thing about teaching kids is that for all the kids who

want to learn, there are also going to be kids who don't.  Or who don't

want to learn some of the things we want to teach them.  Young people who

discover OTR & the other Beats, I feel, will keep doing it the same way

they always have...stumbling across them some way or another, Cliffs Notes

or no Cliffs Notes.  Chances are that if the kid opts for the Cliffs Notes

rather than the real deal, he/she wasn't going to ever read the book unless

made to.  My favorite memory: when i was in high school, we were reading

the great gatsby.  most of our books had this blue cover with a pair of

eyes on it.  Ed, who was a bright kid & is currently in law school, had a

yellow & black striped edition.  Like I said, he was bright, but

literature wasn't his thing.

 

Diane. (H)

 

--

I should have loved a thunderbird instead.                    --Sylvia Plath

 

Diane M. Homza                                   ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:49:00 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jonathan Pickle <jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Visions of America

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 01:33 PM 9/15/97 -0500, Matt Sackmann wrote:

>

>And coming down from a high i opened up Some of the Dharma to a random

>page, and this is what i read:

>

>"God is a warm idea for the cool void."

>

>Makes perfect sense, doesn't it?

>-matt

>

Yes, yes, yes.  I read it too.  It was all so perfect.  Am going to reread

it once I get a break and can really understand it as it relates to my life

as meaning.

 

I read something that Tricycle serialized Wake Up - Jack's biography of the

Buddha.  Is there anyway anyone can get a hold of that.  On the net or

something.

 

     "And any time you need

        me

  Call

      I'll be at the other

       end

    Waiting

          at the final hall"          JK - 80th Chorus, San Francisco Blues

 

 

 

                                                       -Jon

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:20:51 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         der doc <der_doc@ROCKETMAIL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Adam J Muszkiewicz disciplinary hearing

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

 

===

visit my web site, The Beat(en) Regeneration

(http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6131)

for info on the Beat, Beatnik and Neo-Beat subcultures

 

 

 

 

 

 

---Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET> wrote:

 

>     To:  Lieutenant Adam J Muszkiewicz, M.D. A.K.A. "der doc"

 

First of all it's PhD not M.D.

 

>         This is to inform you Officer Muszkiewicz that in my position

> responsible for discipline on the Beat Liat, I am removing your Beat

> priveleges. Until further notiice you cannot refer to yourself as

"Beat" nor

> can you make any claims to ""beatness". In the course of time you

will come

> to appreciate that ANYONE can be beat and you will regret being

excluded.

 

In all of my posts, THAT is precisely the message that I attempt to

get across:  ANYONE might be Beat and there is no point in attempting

to enumerate the masses that may or may not be BEAT.  Besides, that

sort of thing really doesn't go along with "beat-ness," now does it?

I mean really, would Kerouac or Ginsberg or anyone have really just

made a list

of Beats or anything of the sort?  Think about what you're saying,

man!  My own personal message about Beat is, as I have said: Beats are

Beat is Beat.  You know they know we know.  Knowing is enough.

 

 

                                              very confused,

                                                   Adam J Muszkiewicz

_____________________________________________________________________

Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:42:00 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Dufour <dufour@ULISSE.IT>

Subject:      Etoy

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Please, help me to understand this !

 

www.etoy.com

 

Ciao !

 

Francesco (...a sort of confused beat)

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 15:43:56 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

Subject:      Re: your mail

In-Reply-To:  <3.0.32.19970915112950.0068b080@maila.wm.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

jon

where do you read this? (not that this would be the first tiome ive heard

it, but just curious). article? book? etc?

yrs

derek

 

On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Jonathan Pickle wrote:

 

>

> Just got back from a couple days in the woods reading Some of the Dharma -

> Almost, if not more, as artistic as VOC.

>

> Was reading article last night about Kerouac, saying he died a racist.  Can

> anyone tell me anything about this?

>

>                                                         -Jon

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 15:47:20 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

Subject:      kerouac on william f. buckley?

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

does anyone out there have a copy (VHS) or a transcription (even better)

of kerouac's appearance on william f. buckley's "firing line"? i would

really appreciate any help you all might be able to provide. (curious abt

kerouac's comments concerning links b/t beats and hippies as well as

his comments abt ginsberg and gays, etc - and ive heard A

LOT abt this particular interview and would like to check it out myself)

THANKS ya'll

yrs

derek

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:15:04 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         MARK NIGON <Mark_Nigon@CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM>

Subject:      kerouac on william f. buckley? -Reply

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain

 

Hi Derek,

 

Some of the interview is used in the documentary "What Happened to

Kerouc" by Lewis MacAdams and Richard Lerner.  The blurbs used in this

doumentary will answer the questions you've asked about though.  Sorry,

I can't help you with locating a transcript.

 

-mark nigon

 

mark_nigon@mail.campbell-mithun.com

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

>>> "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA> 09/15/97

04:47pm >>>

does anyone out there have a copy (VHS) or a transcription (even better)

of kerouac's appearance on william f. buckley's "firing line"? i would

really appreciate any help you all might be able to provide. (curious

abt

kerouac's comments concerning links b/t beats and hippies as well as

his comments abt ginsberg and gays, etc - and ive heard A

LOT abt this particular interview and would like to check it out myself)

THANKS ya'll

yrs

derek

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:30:46 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jonathan Pickle <jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>

Subject:      Re: your mail

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 03:43 PM 9/15/97 -0600, Derek wrote:

>jon

>where do you read this? (not that this would be the first tiome ive heard

>it, but just curious). article? book? etc?

>yrs

>derek

>

>On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Jonathan Pickle wrote:

>

>>

>> Just got back from a couple days in the woods reading Some of the Dharma -

>> Almost, if not more, as artistic as VOC.

>>

>> Was reading article last night about Kerouac, saying he died a racist.  Can

>> anyone tell me anything about this?

>>

>>                                                         -Jon

>>

>

Read it partly from an editorial in the Austin American-Statesman (Austin,

Texas) around the time when WSB died.  The author referred to an article in

Esquire around the time of JK's death.  I have heard it someplace else, but

can't remember.

 

 

                                                        -Jon

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:43:15 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jonathan or Jennifer <jt712@NETPATH.NET>

Subject:      A funny thing happened the other day..

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I was in Barnes and Noble bookstore, browsing through

the Jack Kerouac section, when this lady in her 40's-50's

and her husband walked by. she pointed right at one

of Kerouac's books and said in a loud voice to her

husband: "Know that guy? He was a hippie-beatnik."

then she left. i almost burst out laughing. obviously,

this woman knows nothing about Kerouac. he was totally

against the hippies! Just thought i might share that

with everyone.

 

-Jennifer

-jt712@netpath.net

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:46:52 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jonathan or Jennifer <jt712@NETPATH.NET>

Subject:      Re: howdy

In-Reply-To:  <970915084232_-1063756835@emout01.mail.aol.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 08:42 AM 9/15/97 -0400, you wrote:

>just wanted to say hi and please write to me....i'm not re-subscribed so

>don't post me a message on the list but write to me personally.  hope you're

>all well. I saw Jim Caroll read day before yerster. It was invigorating.

> He's a great storyteller.  know of any of his stuff on the web anyone?

>

>---------maya

>

I, too, am a huge fan of Jim Carroll. I recommend getting

the book "Fear of Dreaming: Selected Poems of Jim Carroll," and here's the

best page so far I've found

about him:

http://home.forbin.com/~laverne/carroll/carroll.html

 

-Jennifer

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:57:05 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>

Subject:      knowing the lingo (was: A funny thing happened...)

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

<snip>

     husband: "Know that guy? He was a hippie-beatnik."<snap>

 

     A question for those of you that gathered in the Haight, Goa, the

     Village, attended Woodstock, etc. all those years ago. I know that the

     phrase beatnik was/is derogatory, is the term hippie also, or was it

     acceptable at the time?

 

     While I'm on the subject, did anyone on the list ever travel to Goa?

     I'd like to chat with you backchannel if you did.

 

     love and lilies,

 

     matt h.

     mhannan@usoc.org

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 19:08:05 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: knowing the lingo (was: A funny thing happened...)

In-Reply-To:  Message of Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:57:05 -0400 from

              <MATT.HANNAN@USOC.ORG>

 

Hippie was cool and acceptable, though I'm not sure most hippies referred to th

emselves as such.  Yippies had a lot of fun with it.  Lots of people said "Yea,

 man I'm hip." back in the late 1960s and early 70s.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:15:54 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: knowing the lingo (was: A funny thing happened...)

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 04:57 PM 9/15/97 -0400, you wrote:

 

>     While I'm on the subject, did anyone on the list ever travel to Goa?

>     I'd like to chat with you backchannel if you did.

 

What is Goa?

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 19:50:18 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      Re: kerouac and cliff's notes.

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.OSF.3.91.970914224538.20808A-100000@turbo.kean.edu>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Sun, 14 Sep 1997, PoOka(the friendly ghost) wrote:

 

> What if somehow "On the Road" was pillaged and turned into a 45 pg

> summary book? Would this encourage young readers to read the whole thing

> or just to skim it in time for september english classes? Either way i

> couldn't begin to fathom the results of taking "naked lunch" or any other

 

I think both Kerouac and Bill Burroughs would turn over in their graves

at the thought of their works being cliff note'd.   cliff notes work fine

for regular works, where the stories are straightforward and not much is

lost in the distillation.  But the idea of doing a cliff notes of "On the

Road" or "Naked Lunch" is absurd.  I personally couldnt imagine being the

cliffs notes editor assigned to do "Naked Lunch"   I dont think it could

be done.  It just isnt possible do distill these works into a few words

or sentences.

 

 

Richard W.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 19:54:04 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      Re: kerouac and cliff's notes.

In-Reply-To:  <1.5.4.16.19970915045343.1b67be54@mail.wi.centuryinter.net>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

> >

> If otr is taught, it is certainly cliff-noted, isn't it.  The only

> way it wouldn't be is if the Kerouac estate said no, or is that

> true?  Don't really know myself.

>

> Mike Rice

>

There is no doubt, none, in my mind, that if Kerouac had known of Cliff

Notes when he was alive, he would have written specific instructions to

never give permission for any of his works, except  *maybe* Town and the

City, to be cliff noted.

 

Kerouac saw himself as a poet, literary jazz musician, and in jazz you

dont distill notes, or attempt to explain jazz in anything less than the

full form.  You cant explain a Charlie Parker record by only listening to

a few notes.  Some things cant be explained that simply.

 

RJW

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:54:36 +0900

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Timothy Hoffman <timothy@GOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: kerouac and cliff's notes.

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.OSF.3.91.970914224538.20808A-100000@turbo.kean.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

A SUBJECT search at Amazon Books produced a reference to a MAX NOTES

treatment of On the Road (however, a negative find on Naked Lunch). Notes

for OTR are  there for the picking. Now . . . as to whether or not anyone

would want to read it, that's a different question. Choosing between the

two's like choosing between eating a real peach and a Xerox of a peach.

 

 

:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::===:::

Timothy Hoffman

Komaki English Teaching Center

timothy@gol.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:59:30 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jonathan Pickle <jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>

Subject:      Re: A funny thing happened the other day..

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 06:43 PM 9/15/97 -0400, you wrote:

 

>I was in Barnes and Noble bookstore, browsing through

 

>the Jack Kerouac section, when this lady in her 40's-50's

 

>and her husband walked by. she pointed right at one

 

>of Kerouac's books and said in a loud voice to her

 

>husband: "Know that guy? He was a hippie-beatnik."

 

>then she left. i almost burst out laughing. obviously,

 

>this woman knows nothing about Kerouac. he was totally

 

>against the hippies! Just thought i might share that

 

>with everyone.

 

>

 

>-Jennifer

 

>-jt712@netpath.net

 

>

 

I think by the time the hippies came around, Jack really wasn't into

being against anything.  He had slipped so far into his depression that

it didn't make much difference to him.  He wasn't into people like the

Merry Pranksters and the hippies, he lived his own way, I don't think he

was really <underline>against</underline> anything.  That my humble

opinion

 

 

                                                                -Jon

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 19:50:28 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: knowing the lingo (was: A funny thing happened...)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

>

>      A question for those of you that gathered in the Haight, Goa, the

>      Village, attended Woodstock, etc. all those years ago. I know that the

>      phrase beatnik was/is derogatory, is the term hippie also, or was it

>      acceptable at the time?

>

 

Of course by the time the mass media had tracked it to Woodstock, et.

al. it was over anyway except for financially exploiting the rock and

roll and t-shirts.  I never heard anyone refer to his or her self as a

hippie except sarcastically.

 

 

J. Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:38:02 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marlene Giraud <M84M79@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: kerouac and cliff's notes.

 

I'm not too sure about the cliff's notes, i think having cf's would help and

hinder students while reading otr. by the way, my old english teacher has

decided to incoorperate otr and some beat poetry into his class this year. he

asked me for some suggestions on themes,etc..., now i'm asking for some input

from the list. What poems do you suggest for a highschool english 3 class?

What points would you like acknowledged from otr?

                                               --Marlene

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:22:34 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jonathan Pickle <jrpick@MAILA.WM.EDU>

Subject:      Re: kerouac and cliff's notes.

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 10:38 PM 9/15/97 -0400, Marlene wrote:

>I'm not too sure about the cliff's notes, i think having cf's would help and

>hinder students while reading otr. by the way, my old english teacher has

>decided to incoorperate otr and some beat poetry into his class this year. he

>asked me for some suggestions on themes,etc..., now i'm asking for some input

>from the list. What poems do you suggest for a highschool english 3 class?

>What points would you like acknowledged from otr?

>                                               --Marlene

>

For a couple of years now I have gone around to my friends who have

discovered Jack Kerouac and the Beat Generation after me and sat with them

for upwards of 50+ hours talking about On the Road and other Kerouac

subjects.  I have a list I  am trying to clean up to give to a teacher back

home: if you want I can email it to you.  It will be pretty long once I am

finished.  But in the medium I like to emphasize the recurring themes of

the shroud, ie shrouded figures, the cowboy fascination, facades - things

constantly are alluded to being fake from the elluding dress of some one to

the fakeness of a joint.  Also the repitition of the word 'crossroads'.

Thse are a few of the questions I give out.  I have much more chapter

specific ones i like to use for when I have more time.

 

As for poetry:  I like to use

 

"How to Meditate"

"My Views on Religion"

"Skid Row Wine"

**"Tales of the Buddhas of Old"

Always throw in some Haikus

 

 

                                                        -Jon

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:36:44 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Feng Yan <xbchen@SUN.NANKAI.EDU.CN>

Subject:      Re: kerouac on william f. buckley? -Reply

In-Reply-To:  <s41d6c0b.072@campbell-mithun.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, MARK NIGON wrote:

 

> Hi Derek,

>

> Some of the interview is used in the documentary "What Happened to

> Kerouc" by Lewis MacAdams and Richard Lerner.  The blurbs used in this

> doumentary will answer the questions you've asked about though.  Sorry,

> I can't help you with locating a transcript.

>

> -mark nigon

>

> mark_nigon@mail.campbell-mithun.com

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> >>> "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA> 09/15/97

> 04:47pm >>>

> does anyone out there have a copy (VHS) or a transcription (even better)

> of kerouac's appearance on william f. buckley's "firing line"? i would

> really appreciate any help you all might be able to provide. (curious

> abt

> kerouac's comments concerning links b/t beats and hippies as well as

> his comments abt ginsberg and gays, etc - and ive heard A

> LOT abt this particular interview and would like to check it out myself)

> THANKS ya'll

> yrs

> derek

>

Mark, Derek and others,

 

I am also interested in Kerouac's comments. Anyone could post some here?

And your opinion?

 

Ciao

Yan

 

We share the Moon.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:38:00 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Feng Yan <xbchen@SUN.NANKAI.EDU.CN>

Subject:      Re: A funny thing happened the other day..

In-Reply-To:  <3.0.2.32.19970915184315.00688df8@server1.netpath.net>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Jonathan or Jennifer wrote:

 

> I was in Barnes and Noble bookstore, browsing through

> the Jack Kerouac section, when this lady in her 40's-50's

> and her husband walked by. she pointed right at one

> of Kerouac's books and said in a loud voice to her

> husband: "Know that guy? He was a hippie-beatnik."

> then she left. i almost burst out laughing. obviously,

> this woman knows nothing about Kerouac. he was totally

> against the hippies! Just thought i might share that

> with everyone.

>

> -Jennifer

> -jt712@netpath.net

>

What had Kerouac said against hippies?

 

Yan

We share the Moon.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 16 Sep 1997 03:07:33 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Beat Trees

 

Hello,

In case anybody is following Headwaters forest stuff, there was a rally this

sunday in Northern California (Stafford), and there was 400 cops there in

riot gear, ready to arrest the environmentalists. OK, alot of the

environmentalists are the granola type,  but the cops has gas masks on their

belts, batons in hands, and face shields. What the hell are we fighting for.

I thought this stuff went out in the 60s.

 

Headwaters Forest - the last remaining old growth forest, Redwood trees 500

to 2,000 years old, that are privately owned. And owned by Mr. Hurwitz

(Maxxam corporation/Pacific Lumber) who is tying to get ransom money for it

from the government and taxpayers in the amount of $380 million dollars USA,

otherwise the forest, nature, animals, rivers, all go. It's 10:00 pm. Do you

know what the fuck your government is doing?

 

I don't know if Jack would have stood for it.   Are trees beat?

 

peace, Attila

 

Joke:

How do you get a logger to cut off his own foot?

 

answer: Tell him it is made out of wood.

Well, maybe it is not a joke, who knows.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:02:24 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Feng Yan <xbchen@SUN.NANKAI.EDU.CN>

Subject:      Re: More Berthold Brecht

In-Reply-To:  <3.0.1.32.19970915144828.0068cdf4@pop.gpnet.it>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

 

> are easily transform as "a acute or a grave" a', ... etc, if

> a chinese or japanese wish to post in his native language there's

> impossible, i'm afraid,

>

 

Yes, it's impossible unless you listers all have some software

like Chinese Star etc. You know, I am working on a Chinese Version of Win95.

 

Also, because of my low level English I am busy running after the threads.

But still i feel great.

 

Ciao

Yan

 

We share the Moon.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 16 Sep 1997 04:36:49 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: your mail

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 06:30 PM 9/15/97 -0400, you wrote:

>At 03:43 PM 9/15/97 -0600, Derek wrote:

>>jon

>>where do you read this? (not that this would be the first tiome ive heard

>>it, but just curious). article? book? etc?

>>yrs

>>derek

>>

>>On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Jonathan Pickle wrote:

>>

>>>

>>> Just got back from a couple days in the woods reading Some of the Dharma -

>>> Almost, if not more, as artistic as VOC.

>>>

>>> Was reading article last night about Kerouac, saying he died a racist.  Can

>>> anyone tell me anything about this?

>>>

>>>                                                         -Jon

>>>

>>

>Read it partly from an editorial in the Austin American-Statesman (Austin,

>Texas) around the time when WSB died.  The author referred to an article in

>Esquire around the time of JK's death.  I have heard it someplace else, but

>can't remember.

>

>

>                                                        -Jon

>

>

I read the article in Esquire back then, but it was published some time

after Kerouac's death.  I don't recall the remarks about racism, but that

doesn't mean they weren't there.

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 16 Sep 1997 04:36:55 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: kerouac on william f. buckley? -Reply

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 01:36 PM 9/16/97 -0500, you wrote:

>On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, MARK NIGON wrote:

>

>> Hi Derek,

>>

>> Some of the interview is used in the documentary "What Happened to

>> Kerouc" by Lewis MacAdams and Richard Lerner.  The blurbs used in this

>> doumentary will answer the questions you've asked about though.  Sorry,

>> I can't help you with locating a transcript.

>>

>> -mark nigon

>>

>> mark_nigon@mail.campbell-mithun.com

>>

>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>> >>> "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA> 09/15/97

>> 04:47pm >>>

>> does anyone out there have a copy (VHS) or a transcription (even better)

>> of kerouac's appearance on william f. buckley's "firing line"? i would

>> really appreciate any help you all might be able to provide. (curious

>> abt

>> kerouac's comments concerning links b/t beats and hippies as well as

>> his comments abt ginsberg and gays, etc - and ive heard A

>> LOT abt this particular interview and would like to check it out myself)

>> THANKS ya'll

>> yrs

>> derek

>>

>Mark, Derek and others,

>

>I am also interested in Kerouac's comments. Anyone could post some here?

>And your opinion?

>

>Ciao

>Yan

>

>We share the Moon.

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 16 Sep 1997 04:36:59 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: kerouac on william f. buckley? -Reply

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Write to one of those outfits who provide

transcripts of the weekly Sunday morning

political shows and see if they might have

it.  Those people have been doing this kind

of stuff for a long time.  I saw the Kerouac

film in the 80s on Bravo.

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 16 Sep 1997 04:37:01 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: A funny thing happened the other day..

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

He wrote about his dislike for hippies in the

Chicago Tribune Sunday magazine in late August

or early September, 1969, if you want to read

it.  You could look it up!

 

Mike Rice

 

At 01:38 PM 9/16/97 -0500, you wrote:

>On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Jonathan or Jennifer wrote:

>

>> I was in Barnes and Noble bookstore, browsing through

>> the Jack Kerouac section, when this lady in her 40's-50's

>> and her husband walked by. she pointed right at one

>> of Kerouac's books and said in a loud voice to her

>> husband: "Know that guy? He was a hippie-beatnik."

>> then she left. i almost burst out laughing. obviously,

>> this woman knows nothing about Kerouac. he was totally

>> against the hippies! Just thought i might share that

>> with everyone.

>>

>> -Jennifer

>> -jt712@netpath.net

>>

>What had Kerouac said against hippies?

>

>Yan

>We share the Moon.

>

>

 

It was

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 16 Sep 1997 05:28:34 -0700

Reply-To:     mike@buchenroth.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@BUCHENROTH.COM>

Organization: Buchenroth Publishing Company

Subject:      Re: Beat Trees

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Attila Gyenis wrote:

> In case anybody is following Headwaters forest stuff, there was a > rally this

 sunday in Northern California (Stafford), and there was 400 > cops there in



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