=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 25 Aug 1997 01:35:24 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: The aggressor.

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Bill Philibin wrote:

>

> >         Don't use the telephone

> >         People are never ready to answer it.

> >         Use poetry. --- Jack Kerouac, 1970.

>

>         How on earth did JK say this in 1970?

 

Medium ?????

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 25 Aug 1997 02:11:56 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      The Legend of a HAT

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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

 

--------------714F43B51B90

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I mistyped evidently and this just went to Mike when it was supposed to

go to the Beat-L.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

 

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Message-ID: <34012733.4119@midusa.net>

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 01:33:23 -0500

From: RACE --- <race@midusa.net>

X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I)

MIME-Version: 1.0

To: mike@buchenroth.com

Subject: Re: pics and apology

References: <3400E474.52EB@sunflower.com> <34013FC5.454D@buchenroth.com>

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Michael L. Buchenroth wrote:

>

> Patricia Elliott wrote:

> > I am sorry for the duplication...

> ***

> Please send all the duplicate photos you desire. Please send all the

> duplicate photos you desire. No one No one could possibly mind due to to

> the precious nature of your imagery!! Pleez Pleez send away!

> ***

> Besides, cultural history demands it! You have a live legend started

> with your news, stories, photos, and David sitting there near to

> Burroughs' hat. I had wondered about that hat a number of times during

> different days as I remember someone posting once a while back during

> the "Flame Wars" that Johhny Debb had paid 50,000 bucks for Kerouac's

> rain coat. I just wondered about Burroughs' hat and hoped it would find

> a proper context to exist within now that it no longer has that Beat

> head to travel upon. It appears so!

> -Michael Buchenroth

 

NONNONONONOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

The hat is MYYYY HAT it was given to me by a dear friend who according

to Legend (and that's all we have these days now isn't it) a Cat named

4X in some organization titled The Nation of Islam!!!  I was just

reading WSB's letters today about what he'd learned from Islam and

everything he said i understood intricately from my days under the

tutelage of the old black Hat.  I and a legendary woman of the time

bought him a Legendary Malcolm Hat for a legendary birthday present.

Anyone who goes through Quad Cities America - like in the early pages of

On the Road - head down to a coffee shop in downtown Rock Island called

AKOP -- All Kind's of People -- run by Herb and John two great guys who

saved my life more than once and ask about a crazy fucker that used to

wear a black hat all the time in their place and read poetry about

Yahtzee and The Short Month (African American history month) and things

like that and tell them i said hello.

 

As for the REAL guy's Hat, last i saw it was artistically placed near

him at the open casket memorial service -- i supposed in case he decided

to make a grand departure in the middle of "The Priest They Called Him"

-- and though i must admit that for more than a second during the

viewing period as a got closer and closer to the casket i consider

pulling a switch for it OR just grabbing the old Hat and making a

Snagglepuss exit stage LEFT and trying to outrun the mob truth right and

justice took over me and i thought who needs the Hat - i've got this old

Black Hat that i stalk lawrence with like a Black Cat and yada yada.  So

that clears that one up.

 

Now as for my picture under the title WSB and Fletch i understand

something about pictures connecting with souls and this and that.  And

from Western Lands i have heard it say that according to Legend

(egyptian i believe which i know rather intimately) that several souls

fly the old chicken coup right at bodily death and head off for a more

lively customer, and so perhaps somewhere in my Egyptian hierachy of

soul (which i might have - who knows - i've replaced some zombied out

higher souls with WSB & fletch soul particles) at any rate this is about

the closest that i can come to any possible cosmic significance to the

photo and caption.  But i will always like the notion of a picture of

WSB and Fletch coming out of the computer magic universe and looking

just a bit like me after a long weekend.

 

So enough of all that.  MY hat is fine and rests atop my computer

terminal.  It is a thinking cap HAT afterall and is only worn out when i

intend to (and have alerted all relevant authorities regarding the

intention) have a few moments in the American Night with a creative

Zing.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

 

 

--------------714F43B51B90--

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 25 Aug 1997 04:39:24 -0700

Reply-To:     mike@buchenroth.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@BUCHENROTH.COM>

Organization: Buchenroth Publishing Company

Subject:      Re: The Legend of a HAT

MIME-Version: 1.0

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RACE --- wrote:

***

Remember that exercise from grade school where the teacher whispered a

message to a child; that child whispered the message to the next child;

and similarly around the class; where the last child had to recite the

message aloud? The message most often changed. Obviously I provided

insufficient attention to Patricia's message as I too recited

incorrectly. And I hope I stand at the end of that line . . .

***

However, my meaning still stands. The photos prove extremely

interesting, fun, historical, legendary, literary, etc. and I encourage

more photo postings. We actually get to look at one another beyond these

hammer chisel, black white locutions ... as well as participate in

history; engage legend.

***

Thanks,

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 25 Aug 1997 04:16:23 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: The Legend of a HAT

Comments: To: mike@buchenroth.com

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Michael L. Buchenroth wrote:

>

> RACE --- wrote:

> ***

> Remember that exercise from grade school where the teacher whispered a

> message to a child; that child whispered the message to the next child;

> and similarly around the class; where the last child had to recite the

> message aloud? The message most often changed. Obviously I provided

> insufficient attention to Patricia's message as I too recited

> incorrectly. And I hope I stand at the end of that line . . .

> ***

> However, my meaning still stands. The photos prove extremely

> interesting, fun, historical, legendary, literary, etc. and I encourage

> more photo postings. We actually get to look at one another beyond these

> hammer chisel, black white locutions ... as well as participate in

> history; engage legend.

> ***

> Thanks,

> Mike

 

That is one of my favourite games from childhood and probably one of my

favorite games as an adult.  I'm not certain if it was on the list or in

private correspondence with Arthur Nusbaum that i compared much of what

goes on in cut-up methods as akin to that game.  Writing is 50 years

behind painting but all art is centuries behind the games of children i

suppose.

 

I love the notions of the pictures being incorporated.  I now lack a bit

of anonymity as i type type type fingers sliding across the keyboard at

their whim since readers can attach a face to a name - but i also find

that it is more fun interacting with folks who i've met on route or have

connected with cybervisually as well as in other manners.

 

So pass that one along through the chain of children and hopefully the

last one will sufficiently edit to the message: cyberpictures are good

things.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 25 Aug 1997 04:37:33 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Naked Lunch: Benway

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Diane Carter wrote:

>

> This actually is beginning to read more like scenes from a movie script,

> or maybe it's just that the content of Benway reminds me of some old

> fuzzy Planet of the Apes movie.

 

I've been meaning to respond to this note since the day it was sent some

some some many many years ago in cybertime.  WSB is difficult to read

unless what Diane is caught here is .... grocked.

 

In reading Naked Lunch, it seems to me, the idea of "sketch" or

"routine" (something akin to the best of contemporary performance art)

is a necessary form to grasp.  I'd read in the Selected Letters book the

use of the term "sketch" and then "routine" and had a vision of sorts of

how to describe it but wasn't certain that it was Quite right and so had

held off.

 

Yesterday morning while sitting in the filling station booth mindlessly

ingesting with pure joy the Selected Letters i came across a patch of

words and brain popped back in to the game and said "that's for the note

you've been meaning to write about what Diane wrote so long ago".  I

said to brain, by jove you're right! marked the page and moved along to

continue mindlessly ingesting Selected Letters for breakfast.

 

This was the quote from the Letters:

"Gag for Milton Berle: Feller say I reckon Christ got Mary's immaculate

cherry on the way out."

 

And this fits with exactly my notion of sketch/routine.  In our culture

the extremely progressive side of mainstream american comedy has shifted

along the way through the years.  At the time of this writing comedy was

a Milton Berle kind of comedy.  And comedy writers -- the author's role

-- were portrayed comically in a show called the Dick Van Dyke show.

Still watch it sometimes.  It was comedy within the comedy - and perhaps

parody of the Berle type figure.  So this was the edge of culture back

then.  What the writer's talked about in that show was writing

"sketches".  These kept going through things like Laugh In, the Carol

Burnett show, Love American Style, even the best of the not ready for

prime time players, secondcity and perhaps even in living color.  The

edge in all of these and performed in "sketches" or "routines".

(unforunately, this form has been overwhelmed by the "situation" comedy

which has been poorly attempting to catch up with where it was in the

days of All in the Family).  Enough of this.

 

I see WSB in Naked Lunch as writing for something like "The Carol

Burnett Show from HELL!" - (with a big smile after the hell)  If you

take what was "the edge" of acceptable humor and push it back across the

board to where it is considered mundane and straight dramatics and then

employ the same "sketch" technique (a talent only WSB has been able to

master it seems) a whole new form of humor erupts.  Those who miss the

humor pigeonhole the writings under categories of "Apocalyptic

Literature" and whatnot.  Missing the whole game of this routine - the

joy and laughter of it all ---- afterall should a Naked Lunch being a

sombre ritual????

 

 

Close to walking through the wards of an

> ugly insane asylum but I'm always wondering why the narrator is on the

> outside looking in.

 

As a person with some personal expertise in this regard i would say

closer to the pretty insane asylums coated with the color of paint that

will induce passivity as if the Thorzine gives color a chance to play

its tricks.  No insane asylums are like these images for long.  A needle

and leather straps settles the matter fairly quickly.  And for those of

us who are stubborn it settles it very s l o w l y.

 

But the notion of it being compleatly "chaotic" by conventional notions

of decorum is on target.  And why would the narrator stand outside of

this????  The cheap answer would be in the words of the Bard of

post-Hiroshima earth: "Wouldn't You?"

 

The Benway section alone has my mind chasing in so many subthreads that

i will have to weed and fertilize and whatnot a bit until they bear

fruit.  Hopefully will limit the number of crops from this planting.

Wouldn't want to glut the word market.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 25 Aug 1997 04:48:46 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      NL-Benway-algebra of need for crazy

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The end of this Benway section hits home for me as one who accepts the

societal label of crazy -- and get good money to do so -- and sends me

back to the introduction again and the Algebra of Need.

 

>From much of my readings in social psychology, insanity is a fact but it

is a fact defined within given cultures and societies.  It is a socially

constructed fact.  Anthropologists will point to some characters i know

and say they'd be highly respected visionaries in their societies while

here they sit in net of social security control and live the stigma of

those defined as crazy.

 

I've written some essays along these lines before on social theory and

psychiatry and ....

 

well can you all remind me to go back and integrate all the Algebra of

Need angle ... with the need being Society's need for crazies and

Society being the addict and the crazies being the junk ... that kind of

thought into my essay on Reification of Medicalized Being.  After we get

through with talking about all of Beat Literature since Columbus or so

can a few folks remind me to go back and work WSB in.  He is an amazing

social theorist that fits so well with what is mainline thought in many

ways and that he -- of course -- wrote about several years before the

publication of "The Social Construction of Reality".  Anyway .... that

was one of those Benway strings that was clogging my brain.  Perhaps i

can really talk about what's in the chapter now....with the fingers tied

around our collective finger helping my absent mind.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 25 Aug 1997 05:58:47 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: HELP!!! - Jenn's Kerouac/Ginsberg tutorial

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Jenn Fedor wrote:

>

> beat members,

>

> i desparately need the help of anyone who wishes to contribute!  i am trying

> to start a tutorial at New College of USF (which, if you do not know, is a

> student run and organized course offered for normal course credit) on Kerouac

> and Ginsberg work.  i would really appreciate all of your input, because most

> of the vocal members on this list are much more versed in the subject than i.

>

> i will probably be asking many questions along the way if this is successful,

> but for now my big question is:

> Which Kerouac novels would you chose for a course if only 4-5 could be read

> (please give the top four and a bonus just in case!)?

>

> What Ginsberg stuff should we read?  i was thinking kaddish and howl and the

> neal cassady elegies (where are those located?)  what else? would the

> Collected Poems (1947-1980)  be sufficient?  i want the kerouac and ginsberg

> to be equal.

> Thank you all so much!  i really appreciate the input!  i need as soon as

> possible!  you can send it directly to me, or through the list - which ever

> you prefer!  you all are the best!

> -Jenn Fedor

 

Jenn:

 

well it seems that you have had most of the pantheon suggested although

i'd say that they must know "something" about william burroughs to make

sense of old bull lee's force in OTR.

 

i've had to try and synthesize some of the impossible before and here is

what i'd do.

 

Everybody in the class reads On the Road.  Then parcel out all the

remaining writings that folks suggested and segments of biographies to

each person in the class.  Depending on class size you may be able to

expand the pantheon beyond what has been mentioned on the list.  Each

person is expected to be "the expert" on their extra book or books.

Then no classes for two or three weeks and everyone learns their

material.

Then come back and go through On the Road together as a class but with

everybody bringing their special areas of expertise to the discussion.

The students in the class "become" the personas of other beat voices or

the same beat voices at other times.  I can see one kid expert on

Desolation Angels and Another on Visions of Cody getting into a public

brawl about what Jack would have meant by "x,y and z" on p. 3998 of On

the Road.

 

I hope this is as simple to you as it sounds.  I've been in classes

where this method was used.  I think it was "All of Aristotle can be

read as footnotes to the Rhetoric" and i was the expert on De Anima.

 

I've done it classes that i've taught and find that students who are

allowed and expected to be "the expert" on a subject have a slightly

different attitude about learning than when they're spoonfed or talked

down to.

 

And it seems that your class situation is non-traditional/experimental

in nature and certainly it would be in the beat mainline vein to not do

the class traditionally so that would be by suggestions.

 

Of course i'm permanently disabled according to the Teacher's Insurance

Annuity Association so take these thoughts with a grain of salt (or

pepper)

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 25 Aug 1997 07:04:03 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      HELP WITH DOWNLOADING

In-Reply-To:  <3400B5A9.1A9B@sunflower.com>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

all the great attatchments (photos) i have a mac performa, run eudora lite

as mailer, netscape as browser.

i cannot for the life of me get the damned jpegs to open properly.

my brain is filled with many spaces between synapses. a virtual living

breathing black hole.

many thanks. i am spamming the group. i know this.

thanks in advance

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 25 Aug 1997 07:04:07 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      INTERZONE

In-Reply-To:  <3401525D.4905@midusa.net>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

hi all. instead of doing reading in non-wsb projects, i decided to read

interzone and the letters out of which reared the formidable naked lunch.

THEN read naked lunch. i've got so many projects going at once (including

living around two huge canvases still wet with oils and not stepping on the

palette, etc. i paint sitting down on a good rug and big palette and

fingerpaint. interesting method and very satisfying, the way i suppose lots

of other things (like beats) which are all encompassing in their absorption

and no intermediary (brush) just me and the pigments.

and interzone.

mc

any takers?

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 25 Aug 1997 06:22:05 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: HELP WITH DOWNLOADING

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Marie Countryman wrote:

>

> all the great attatchments (photos) i have a mac performa, run eudora lite

> as mailer, netscape as browser.

> i cannot for the life of me get the damned jpegs to open properly.

> my brain is filled with many spaces between synapses. a virtual living

> breathing black hole.

> many thanks. i am spamming the group. i know this.

> thanks in advance

> mc

 

i hope someone helps you so you can see me in William's house and yard.

 

david

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 25 Aug 1997 06:24:36 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: INTERZONE

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Marie Countryman wrote:

>

> hi all. instead of doing reading in non-wsb projects, i decided to read

> interzone and the letters out of which reared the formidable naked lunch.

> THEN read naked lunch. i've got so many projects going at once (including

> living around two huge canvases still wet with oils and not stepping on the

> palette, etc. i paint sitting down on a good rug and big palette and

> fingerpaint. interesting method and very satisfying, the way i suppose lots

> of other things (like beats) which are all encompassing in their absorption

> and no intermediary (brush) just me and the pigments.

> and interzone.

> mc

> any takers?

> mc

 

i've been reading the Selected Letters.  Still up to the navel in

Ulysses with Diane, Stephen and Sherri.  I want to read Interzone - but

don't know if i can access a copy here.  If you don't have any takers

now -- i'll take your take down the road a piece .... paint a picture of

me ok.?????

 

hope you're doing well.

 

david

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 25 Aug 1997 10:18:48 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         PATRICK <EASTWIND@EROLS.COM>

Organization: EASTWIND PUBLISHING

Subject:      Whereabouts of Gregory Corso

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Anyone know where Gregory Corso is living today?? Or any info on his

current activity?

 

Thanking you now ...

 

Patrick

eastwind@erols.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 25 Aug 1997 07:43:13 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James William Marshall <dv8@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>

Subject:      Re: The aggressor.

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

>Bill Philibin wrote:

>>

>> >         Don't use the telephone

>> >         People are never ready to answer it.

>> >         Use poetry. --- Jack Kerouac, 1970.

>>

>>         How on earth did JK say this in 1970?

>

>Medium ?????

>

>david rhaesa

>salina, Kansas

 

Well Done!

 

                                              Sunny side up,

                                              James M.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:17:01 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: HELP WITH DOWNLOADING

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Marie Countryman wrote:

>

> all the great attatchments (photos) i have a mac performa, run eudora lite

> as mailer, netscape as browser.

> i cannot for the life of me get the damned jpegs to open properly.

> my brain is filled with many spaces between synapses. a virtual living

> breathing black hole.

> many thanks. i am spamming the group. i know this.

> thanks in advance

> mc

 

 

Hey, you spammer you.  Hopefully some Mac head will answer.  However, my

jpegs were posted in Netscape and several folks who had tried to open

them with Quick Time, etc, found that the browser itself opened them

just fine.  Antoine Maloney figured this out.  Leon is as good a

resourse as any since he seems to be a real wire head these days.  Good

luck.

 

James

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 25 Aug 1997 14:08:27 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: HELP WITH DOWNLOADING

Comments: To: stauffer@pacbell.net

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

I couldn't open the JPGs either with 2show.  Are they

mime or binaries?  I can mostly only decode binaries.

I do not know how to use uudecode.  Does anyone know

of a downloadable program that will decode them?

 

Mike Rice

 

At 09:17 AM 8/25/97 -0700, you wrote:

>Marie Countryman wrote:

>>

>> all the great attatchments (photos) i have a mac performa, run eudora lite

>> as mailer, netscape as browser.

>> i cannot for the life of me get the damned jpegs to open properly.

>> my brain is filled with many spaces between synapses. a virtual living

>> breathing black hole.

>> many thanks. i am spamming the group. i know this.

>> thanks in advance

>> mc

>

>

>Hey, you spammer you.  Hopefully some Mac head will answer.  However, my

>jpegs were posted in Netscape and several folks who had tried to open

>them with Quick Time, etc, found that the browser itself opened them

>just fine.  Antoine Maloney figured this out.  Leon is as good a

>resourse as any since he seems to be a real wire head these days.  Good

>luck.

>

>James

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 25 Aug 1997 11:39:24 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: HELP WITH DOWNLOADING

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

First you'd have to answer some questions to see what is happening--where

the bottleneck is.

 

Do you have a file on your computer (most likely called wsbdavid.jpg

 and most likely in a folder called attachments residing in the eudora folder).

 

If you have this (and the other) files that means that the files were

decoded by the eudora program.  They still could be corrupt.  Best thing is

to try to open them with Netscape.  If Netscape cannot open these files you

are most likely out of luck.  They were decoded incorrectly and corrupted.

 

These files are coming as mime attachments.  Download a program called

empack.  It is a macintosh mime program--it will decode or encode files in

mime format.  If you don't have the jpg files (eg wsbdavid.jpg) then you'll

need the empack program.

 

A program that will decode mime for pc is xferpro.  I am sure both of these

ar downloadable from most shareware sites.

 

Last thing, if the mime encoded mesages were not decoded it is possible that

they are in the mail mesage as a bunch of gibberish.  And they may have been

cut into smaller pieces.  You'll have to save the file as a separate text

files and decode that file using empack or xferpro.

 

Feel free to ask for more details.

 

 

 

 

At 07:04 AM 8/25/97 -0400, you wrote:

>all the great attatchments (photos) i have a mac performa, run eudora lite

>as mailer, netscape as browser.

>i cannot for the life of me get the damned jpegs to open properly.

>my brain is filled with many spaces between synapses. a virtual living

>breathing black hole.

>many thanks. i am spamming the group. i know this.

>thanks in advance

>mc

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 25 Aug 1997 15:10:28 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mike Rice <mrice@CENTURYINTER.NET>

Subject:      Re: The aggressor.

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

At 10:25 AM 8/24/97 -0400, you wrote:

>>         Don't use the telephone

>>         People are never ready to answer it.

>>         Use poetry. --- Jack Kerouac, 1970.

>

>        How on earth did JK say this in 1970?

>

>

Maybe it was published after his death in late

1969.

 

Mike Rice

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 25 Aug 1997 15:21:13 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Robert Thomas <rthomas@CLARK.NET>

Subject:      Re: HELP!!! - Jenn's Kerouac/Ginsberg tutorial

In-Reply-To:  <34016567.4636@midusa.net>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

On Mon, 25 Aug 1997, RACE --- wrote:

 

> the same beat voices at other times.  I can see one kid expert on

> Desolation Angels and Another on Visions of Cody getting into a public

> brawl about what Jack would have meant by "x,y and z" on p. 3998 of On

> the Road.

 

  Wow, OTR has over 4000 pages, I must have read the abridged version ;-).

 

Robert Thomas

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 25 Aug 1997 15:47:14 +0000

Reply-To:     randyr@southeast.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Comments:     Authenticated sender is <randyr@pop.jaxnet.com>

From:         randy royal <randyr@SOUTHEAST.NET>

Subject:      Re: HELP!!! - Jenn's Kerouac/Ginsberg tutorial

MIME-Version: 1.0

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Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

 

> Everybody in the class reads On the Road.  Then parcel out all the

> remaining writings that folks suggested and segments of biographies to

> each person in the class.  Depending on class size you may be able to

> expand the pantheon beyond what has been mentioned on the list.  Each

> person is expected to be "the expert" on their extra book or books.

> Then no classes for two or three weeks and everyone learns their

> material.

> Then come back and go through On the Road together as a class but with

> everybody bringing their special areas of expertise to the discussion.

> The students in the class "become" the personas of other beat voices or

> the same beat voices at other times.  I can see one kid expert on

> Desolation Angels and Another on Visions of Cody getting into a public

> brawl about what Jack would have meant by "x,y and z" on p. 3998 of On

> the Road.

cool idea.

rand~y

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 25 Aug 1997 16:11:36 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: HELP WITH DOWNLOADING

In-Reply-To:  <199708251839.LAA04426@hsc.usc.edu>

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

all ok guys thanks for the response . i just gave up. ill pay for photos

through mail sorry about the bandwidth here again, but i'm not sure if

anyone is out there trying to do this for me.

i bow

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 25 Aug 1997 15:16:51 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      no more pics

MIME-Version: 1.0

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I am getting together with my nerder and we will set up a url (web page.

for a gallery presentation. They are fun photos but   i have tried to do

this on my own and can't quite get it.  I will be happy to send anyone

some photos if they send me their email address. I am sorry for the

chaos. My e-mail address is pelliott@sunflower.com

p

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 25 Aug 1997 15:27:40 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>

Subject:      origin of high

Comments: cc: gibralto@walrus.com

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> i was reading an article on hypereal and this guy was saying how the

> beats were the first and most well-known group who expiernced with

> writing while high. which we all know.

 

Well, check out this page on the Victorian drug scene ...

 

http://www.walrus.com/~gibralto/acorn/germ/drugs.html

 

------------------------------------------------------

| Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com                   |

|                                                    |

|    Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/ |

|     (3 years old and still running)                |

|                                                    |

|        "Coffeehouse: Writings from the Web"        |

|          (a real book, like on paper)              |

|             also at http://coffeehousebook.com     |

|                                                    |

|          *---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---* |

|                                                    |

|       we might never, never, never live in harmony |

------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:23:25 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gary Mex Glazner <PoetMex@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Whereabouts of Gregory Corso

Comments: To: EASTWIND@erols.com

 

Dear Whereabouts of G.C.,

 

Coroso says, "Don't worship the beats go to the poetry slam."

I saw him in the balcony

at Ginsberg's last

St Marks reading,

yelling down at Alan,

Alan responding like a parent to

a child, softly, yet firm

and somewhat exasperated.

"Yes Gregory, I called you

the greatest poet."

 

love and goatees,

Gary Mex Glazner

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:19:47 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: no more pics

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Patricia Elliott wrote:

>

> I am getting together with my nerder and we will set up a url (web page.

> for a gallery presentation. They are fun photos but   i have tried to do

> this on my own and can't quite get it.  I will be happy to send anyone

> some photos if they send me their email address. I am sorry for the

> chaos. My e-mail address is pelliott@sunflower.com

> p

 

"i have accepted chaos" -- bobbie dillon

 

"one must harbour chaos within to give birth to a dancing star." fred n.

 

"chaos ... throw in some dinosaurs visuals and we got a keeper"

attributed to steve spielberg

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 26 Aug 1997 03:26:36 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Unabridged OTR (was HELP!!! - Jenn's Kerouac/Ginsberg tutorial)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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Robert Thomas wrote:

>

> On Mon, 25 Aug 1997, RACE --- wrote:

>

> > the same beat voices at other times.  I can see one kid expert on

> > Desolation Angels and Another on Visions of Cody getting into a public

> > brawl about what Jack would have meant by "x,y and z" on p. 3998 of On

> > the Road.

>

>   Wow, OTR has over 4000 pages, I must have read the abridged version ;-).

>

> Robert Thomas

 

The unabridged version is not actually published until 2057.  I read it

in a dreamvision.  From the gossip around the bookstore i read it in,

the publication was held up for quite some time by estate wrangling over

name standardization.  Each estate sued each other estate - some suing

to assure anonymity - others suing to be named credited and for the

estate of the previous anonymous to receive partial royalties of

unabridged version.  Unabridged version is in 23 Volumes.  Each volume

containing roughly 5000 pages.  Volume 12 is devoted to photography and

visual arts.

 

Near riots outside bookstore prior to opening and book signing by some

editor from somewhere in sometown in massachusetts (no longer part of

the united states -- new england shifted allegiance to Canada in the war

of 2026) . . . Potential dissertators salivating at the prospects were

seen throwing tire irons at hipsters who were just digging the bookstore

scene and hadn't even heard the new book was out ... they were creating

their own books and legends but the dissertators (always a paranoid

breed created by committeeeeeee controls) perceived serious threats to

bodily persons and potential diplomas and charged the hipsters who were

to busy digging the scene to notice the paranoia hidden within the

salivating tire iron throwers.  ambulances were called.  they came.

they left.  one onlooker screams don't forget Rodney King!!!!  the

Canadian Mounties shoot the onlooker.

 

Thank goodness the store opened finally and the beat spirit melted the

hostilities.

 

Newspaper reporter's headline.  New Kerouac Saga signed in blood by tire

irons.  Bastard talkshow host having editor on next week.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 26 Aug 1997 08:21:26 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Pre-recorded?  (for David Rhaesa & Diane Carter)

Comments: cc: DAVIDSROSEN@compuserve.com

 

David & Diane:

 

I'm back from my much-needed vacation, rested, recharged and ready for the

challenges of a second offspring coming soon, the restoration of a new home

revving up, and the burdens of the Presidency (of Steppingstone Properties

Ltd., that is).  I was ready, anyway, until my first Monday back, only now

winded down to where I can start to catch up.  I'm ready for another

vacation.  Thank you for backchanneling your posts on Naked Lunch, I've read

them and today's Beat-L ( I signed back on yesterday).  I can't fully respond

to the galloping discussion until I've caught up with re-reading NL up to

where you're at, but I'm anxious to get back into the maelstrom.  It's late,

I'm tired and "I can feel the heat closing in", so I'll get right to the

point about the tortuous issue of pre-recording in the life and work of WSB,

THE FOREMOST LITERARY FIGURE OF OUR TIME who so suddenly got off the wheel

and is no longer subject to "the claims of the aging, cautious, nagging,

frightened flesh".  This topic, which I see you grappling with, is in my

opinion one of the most constant and complex threads running through the

whole WSB ouvre.  On the one hand, he has stated that his intention was to

subvert the pre-recorded universe through cutups, and that he has "succeeded

to some modest extent" if I'm quoting him correctly.  But, as DC has been

pointing out, it gets very tricky- how can we possibly circumscribe the

perimeters of the pre-recorded universe, comprehend its limits if any?

 Couldn't the subversive discovery, the "happy accident" be part of the

script?  This is where I have an idea, based on further WSB statements and my

own small experience with cutups.  They are potentially a key INTO the

pre-recorded universe, not so much a way OUT of it.  In his introduction to

QUEER, WSB mentions a cutup phrase:  "Raw peeled winds of hate and mischance

blew the shot".  Upon reflection, he found that this was a key to

understanding his motivations as a writer- the "shot" was the one that

accidentally killed his wife, Joan, and it was the "big bang" (sorry, I

couldn't help it) that started the process of his "writing (his) way out" of

its implications and the CONTROL that the "ugly spirit" exerted over him.

 This epiphany came after the fact, he could not change history (subvert the

pre-recorded universe) but he could UNDERSTAND it better in retrospect.  You

may be familiar with current experiments with the Old Testament, putting its

original Hebrew text through computer processes that reveal a DNA-like "code"

predicting and containing all of human history.  But it seems to me, again,

that all the bombshell revelations come after the fact- for example, a recent

book claims that Yitzhak Rabin's assasination is predicted in a passage when

the letters are shown in crossword puzzle patterns.  Not recent enough,

though, to have come in time to warn him not to attend that rally.  The

pre-recorded universe may so far be a step ahead of us.  Hindsight, including

that provided by cutups or biblical codebreaking, is 20/20.  Was WSB getting

closer to being concurrent with or even ahead of fate?  Was this his

intention?  Does knowledge = power only in terms of predicting, and therefore

potentially changing, fate?  WSB's "appalling conclusion" that the cutup

phrase led him to was empowering in and of itself, even if he found something

out long after the fact it was nevertheless a victory against being

helplessly pulled by strings like a puppet by the "ugly spirit",  the

frightening, unpredictable unfolding of events was brought out of the

darkness and into the light.  And, with every revelation to which he was so

acutely attuned, whether from a cutup text or the pattern caused by a

bullet's impact on a board, he was better prepared for what was ahead.  Even

as I write this, I realize more and more how cyclical and elusive this topic

is.  All I can say for now is that he may not have completely resolved the

issue of the pre-recorded universe and whether it can be effected, but I

don't know of anyone who took a braver, deeper crack at it than the immortal

WSB.  Another idea I get from my readings is that his ideas about space

("we're here to go", as he and Brion Gysin would say), gradually leaving our

bodies literally as we get beyond the gravitational pull of the planet and

break free, may have been another attempt, besides and beyond the cutups, to

get past the pre-recorded space-time tape loop.

 

Actually, to some extend all of the foregoing was a digression from NL,

because with all due respect I still insist that it is not a fully cutup

work, the mature cutups began with THE SOFT MACHINE.  NL was extracted from

myriad writings scattered on the floor of his room in Tangier, compiled and

edited by a succession of Beat cohorts- Ginsberg, Kerouac, Alan Ansen, etc.

 In this sense it is a cutup, there never was an original order, it was

subjected to the random and disparate influences of others (including the

very title, which was suggested to him by JK), and as he says near the end,

it can be re-ordered and read in any combination by the reader, we're all

down there on the floor with him.  The cutups as defined by him and BG go

further than this, and were discovered at just about the time that NL was

first going to (the Olympia) press.  The pages themselves were cut into

quarters, columns, etc., other texts were inserted at various junctures.  NL

precedes this method in the cutup evolution.  The phrases, routines, etc. are

intact in themselves, though in no linear order, they float and are

interchangable.

 

I must somehow get off this bicycle without a kickstand, today has turned

into tomorrow and there's always much, much more to all of this.  The theme

of control in NL is I think more microcosmic than universal-macrocosmic,

putting aside the issue of ultimate pre-recorded control of fate, he

demonstrates the all-too-human control impulse starting with the stark junk

equation ("the algebra of need") and going further out from there to show

what more "normal" society is up to.

 

Regards,

 

Arthur

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 26 Aug 1997 09:51:51 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>

Subject:      Olympia Press

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Arthur mentioned Olympia Press in his post to David today and I noticed that

CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) is re-running a show that discusses

Olympia tonight - Tuesday at 8:00pm.....see below

 

 the story of...

Olympia Press: it published porn, AND some of the great

novels of the 20th century.  All that and Ian Brown's essay

on curling. Sunday Morning on Tuesday Night, this evening

at 8:06 (8:36 NT) on CBC Radio.

 

Antoine

 Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

 

     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 26 Aug 1997 10:18:08 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Pre-recorded?  (for David Rhaesa & Diane Carter)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Arthur Nusbaum wrote:

>

> Actually, to some extend all of the foregoing was a digression from NL,

> because with all due respect I still insist that it is not a fully cutup

> work, the mature cutups began with THE SOFT MACHINE.  NL was extracted from

> myriad writings scattered on the floor of his room in Tangier, compiled and

> edited by a succession of Beat cohorts- Ginsberg, Kerouac, Alan Ansen, etc.

>  In this sense it is a cutup, there never was an original order, it was

> subjected to the random and disparate influences of others (including the

> very title, which was suggested to him by JK), and as he says near the end,

> it can be re-ordered and read in any combination by the reader, we're all

> down there on the floor with him.  The cutups as defined by him and BG go

> further than this, and were discovered at just about the time that NL was

> first going to (the Olympia) press.  The pages themselves were cut into

> quarters, columns, etc., other texts were inserted at various junctures.  NL

> precedes this method in the cutup evolution.  The phrases, routines, etc. are

> intact in themselves, though in no linear order, they float and are

> interchangable.

>

 

Arthur,

 

so nice to have you aboard.  i must confess that i failed to forward all

most posts concerning NL before your return.  Not certain that any of

which are particularly astute though.  Also i'm doing a separate reading

of NL with an old friend who introduced me to the audio WSB pantheon and

we are moving very slowly as he is even less of a linear reader than i

am.  And the connections which come from reading the book with an old

friend that can bring out so many personal anecdoate unrelated and

incomprehensible to the rest of the pool of protoplasm out here seems to

make it a very separate endeavor.  Some material will obviously cross

paths.

 

The point i snipped here that you make is something he and i were

clarifying just last night or this morning who knows with time and

calendars all very unreliable sometimes.  What is synchronicity when our

computer clocks -- not to even begin with biological ones -- are not

close to synchronized.

 

Here is the fictional theory i came up with which provides a rather nice

but probably compleatly inaccurate legend of the origins of cutup and NL

as relates BG and WSB.

 

While reading so far in Selected letters -- through 1956 -- haven't

really seen a kind word specifically mentioned about BG and awhile back

some downright nasty nasty perceptions which are probably no longer

accuate because his perceptions of Paul Bowles have changed in this same

period of time.

 

It is definitely the case that NL is pre-CutUp-technology in a conscious

experiment BUT the method of sifting through letters and snipping out

words and pages to splice together in the development of NL is a very

very obvious fetal form of the process.  As you say NL is compleated or

close and publishers sought by the time the WSB/BG kismet begins.

 

Here is how i see it.

 

BG.  reading naked lunch and hearing about WSB's method of developing

the various sketches and routines sees that WSB is doing to the novel

what montage did to painting and in a rather complimentary fashion ==

since WSB is at the "cutting edge" so to speak of thing makes the

comment "Writing is 50 years behind painting." ..........

 

WSB.  Does some painting at this point and understands BG's notion but

also knows that he is a man of letters and merely accepting the notion

that this 50 year gap is there now doesn't require sitting around and

letting painting stay that far ahead.  So the 50 years comment is also a

challenge of sorts for the novel to catch the fuck up.

 

The conversations which follow create the origins and development of

cutup .... the letter to complete the Yage Letters production ... and

the range of the soft machine novels and forward for a phase expand on

the experiment and BG in the bbc studios does it with sound.  BG's words

at end of Ticket that Exploded and WSB Electronic Revolution essay

function to completely push the envelope of letters into the

post-Hiroshima timeline.

 

The SM etc. novels are at least rooted, in what was "the cutting room

floor" of Naked Lunch.  It seems that understanding NL's process and

then the cutting room notions and the whole BG/WSB experimental

explosion helps appreciate the separateness of the montage but also the

interconnectedness of the once pieced together parts -- especially as

one sees glimpses in reading Selected Letters 45-59.

 

So that is my take on the subject from SaliVVVVVa Kansas (new spelling

associated with inversion of Sherrard Illinois into SHIT yard IL)  My

whole being has temporarily become a subsidiary of Islam Inc. and so

with minutes to go ... screw minutes slow down the clocks we aren't in a

hurry here are we lets all get the clocks and calendars on the same page

and slide off into the pH-age with a little breakfast ala nudette from

uncle bill.

 

salad-a-lickem,

 

david rhaesa

c/o Islam Inc.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 26 Aug 1997 11:58:59 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      OTR movie: Sean Penn?

In-Reply-To:  <3402F3B0.712D@midusa.net>

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 

someone told me that sean penn has been approached about the neal

cassady/dean moriarty role in the OTR movie.  I think he'd been as good a

choice as anyone.  Wonder if he's into the beats though?

 

RJW

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 26 Aug 1997 10:55:38 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: OTR movie: Sean Penn?

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

Richard Wallner wrote:

>

> someone told me that sean penn has been approached about the neal

> cassady/dean moriarty role in the OTR movie.  I think he'd been as good a

> choice as anyone.  Wonder if he's into the beats though?

>

> RJW

Sean Penn, and madonna went to williams art opening in New york and

seemed quite excited about meeting william.

p

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:55:59 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: Naked Lunch: Chapter 1, up to Benway

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> > RACE wrote:

>

> > Of course, one must wonder how deep these control notions -- whether

> > considered metaphorically or literally -- run.  Perhaps the river of

> > scriptural prerecordings is so deep that even the cut-up methods are

> > just another branch of possible versions of the script that the

> > controllers pre-recognize -- merely permutations of the obvious script

> > afterall -- and so the freedom suggested by the cutup is another tool

> > of

> > the controllers.

 

I suppose then, you could invent your own words or even your own characters

and language system but that wouldn't do it either now would it?

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 26 Aug 1997 18:57:02 +0200

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From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Who?

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        Are you Mr. Allen Ginsberg?

 

        On of them.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:34:44 -0400

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From:         Richard Wallner <rwallner@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Subject:      Re: renaming Characters...

Comments: To: randy royal <randyr@southeast.net>

In-Reply-To:  <199708221653.MAA16667@mailhub.southeast.net>

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> sal paradise never did seem to fit my image of jack, and i'm just

> some dumb teenager.

> ~randy

>

 

One reason Kerouac wanted to eventually rename his characters was to

eliminate confusion.  When "On the Road" came out, people assumed that he

(Kerouac) was Dean Moriarty.  He had to convince critics and others that

he was writing about a real person, that he wasnt just writing boastful

exaggerations about himself.

 

He had to tell people Neal Cassady exsisted...if he'd used Neal'sname,

that wouldnt have been a problem.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:35:08 -0400

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From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Love? What is it?

Comments: To: "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>

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On Sun, 24 Aug 1997, Diane M. Homza wrote:

 

> Reply to message from pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM of Sat, 23 Aug

> >

> >"Love? What is it?

> >Most natural painkiller what there is

> >LOVE"

>

> I found it interesting that he called LOVE the most natural painkiller,

> since love seems to cause a lot of the pain in the first place.

>

> (or maybe it's a lack of love that causes the pain....I think that's more

> right.)

 

Memory seems to be at the heart of all pain. So painkilling medicide tends

to affect the memory centers of the brain, and "time heals all wounds." To

forget then is what heals. Does Love help us to forget?

 

m

 

email stutz@dsl.org  Copyright (c) 1997 Michael Stutz; this information is

<http://dsl.org/m/>  free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL, and as long

                     as this sentence remains; it comes with absolutely NO

                     WARRANTY; for details see <http://dsl.org/copyleft/>.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:38:45 -0500

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From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Love? What is it?

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Michael Stutz wrote:>

> Memory seems to be at the heart of all pain. So painkilling medicide tends

> to affect the memory centers of the brain, and "time heals all wounds." To

> forget then is what heals. Does Love help us to forget?

>

> m

patricia writes

I in my life, i found that love helped me realize memory.  Oh\only

thorugh forgiveness and love can i stand to remember,and i find my

memories fuller. It is when i can't find any love that i block things.

the only part of the memory that is lessened is how much it hurt.  But

i  was a youth so full of anger that i would have dreams of axing people

to death and didn't consider them nightmares.  This is not a beat

response.  of william , i always though his goals was to see.

p

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 26 Aug 1997 20:17:22 +0200

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From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      (FWd) Who?

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>>From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@gpnet.it>

>>

>>      Are you Mr. Allen Ginsberg?

>>

>>      On of them.

>>

        te1etypEd m3ssag3

>From: B1FF@SCHIZO.ORG (ALAN YOOOO)

>  ONLY THE TRUTH WIL TRIUMPH OVUR DECEPSHUN +

>  LAST 4VUR.

>

        he had a suitcase

        & 3 tHree head of lettuce

        or

        thr33 headS     S of l3ttuCe

        th3re is        there is

        the MAN has a suitcase

        he must go

        a far tiny voice

                you must go1!

                U must GO11

 

        televised or t3l3typ3d

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 26 Aug 1997 14:14:28 -0500

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From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Love? What is it?

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Patricia Elliott wrote:

>

> Michael Stutz wrote:>

> > Memory seems to be at the heart of all pain. So painkilling medicide tends

> > to affect the memory centers of the brain, and "time heals all wounds." To

> > forget then is what heals. Does Love help us to forget?

> >

> > m

> patricia writes

> I in my life, i found that love helped me realize memory.  Oh\only

> thorugh forgiveness and love can i stand to remember,and i find my

> memories fuller. It is when i can't find any love that i block things.

> the only part of the memory that is lessened is how much it hurt.  But

> i  was a youth so full of anger that i would have dreams of axing people

> to death and didn't consider them nightmares.  This is not a beat

> response.  of william , i always though his goals was to see.

> p

 

i'm with the sunflowers on this one.  REAL-eyes memory

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

 

"all in a Day's work" Doc Benway

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:17:12 -0400

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From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: OTR movie: Sean Penn?

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.970826115702.1741A-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>

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On Tue, 26 Aug 1997, Richard Wallner wrote:

 

> someone told me that sean penn has been approached about the neal

> cassady/dean moriarty role in the OTR movie.  I think he'd been as good a

> choice as anyone.

 

yeah. it's the nose.

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 26 Aug 1997 14:17:20 -0500

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From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Naked Lunch: Chapter 1, up to Benway

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Michael Stutz wrote:

>

> > > RACE wrote:

> >

> > > Of course, one must wonder how deep these control notions -- whether

> > > considered metaphorically or literally -- run.  Perhaps the river of

> > > scriptural prerecordings is so deep that even the cut-up methods are

> > > just another branch of possible versions of the script that the

> > > controllers pre-recognize -- merely permutations of the obvious script

> > > afterall -- and so the freedom suggested by the cutup is another tool

> > > of

> > > the controllers.

>

> I suppose then, you could invent your own words or even your own characters

> and language system but that wouldn't do it either now would it?

 

invention always difficult but have no fear - found this nice quote

today while researching essay titled "Immaculate Fix" i'm working on --

a postatomic eulogy to either Ike or Bull Lee by Doc Benway.

 

"It may be reassuring to know that Washington has carefully protected

the subliminal technology of mass media so it doesn't fall into the

wrong hands."  subliminal seduction p.198

 

gotta trust those hands

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

 

"all in a Day's WORK" Doc Benway treating Andy Warhol

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:39:04 -0700

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From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: OTR movie: Sean Penn?

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I think the biggest problem with this casting is that Penn is too old.

 

Cassady was in his early twenties and Kerouac in his mid twenties when the

events were happening.

 

The actors should reflect the youth.

 

At 11:58 AM 8/26/97 -0400, you wrote:

>someone told me that sean penn has been approached about the neal

>cassady/dean moriarty role in the OTR movie.  I think he'd been as good a

>choice as anyone.  Wonder if he's into the beats though?

>

>RJW

>

>

 



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