=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 17:07:45 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Another Beat?
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Not
here to say ill of the dead, but beat for Kuralt seems a mighty
stretch. There is a long a wonderful tradition of
describing the by
ways of
American life that goes way way back.
In our century think of
John
Dos Passos, Sandburg, Frost, Grant Wood and a lot of
socio-realist
painters, etc, even Norman Rockwell (who reminds me more
of
Kuralt than the others do.) This is not
something the beats invented
tho
some of them did it very well. Kuralt
always struck me as
saccharine,
but then I rarely watched him except for hating his
commentary
for the Lilihammer Winter Olympics. But then I don't think
I've
ever liked anyone on morning TV so maybe I am the wrong guy to
comment.
J.
Stauffer
Howard
Park wrote:
>
> I
definately think that Charles Kuralt was a Beat, in the best and sweetest
>
sense. I morn his passing.
>
> I
believe the core of "beat" was not sex, drugs and rock 'n jazz,
though I
>
can appreciate the positive qualities of those activities, to say the least.
>
>
Kuralt was about exploration and finding joy in simple things, not so simple
>
but unrecognized people and the beauty that is everywhere that we frequently
>
miss in the day-to-day hubub of our lives - things like the Daisy in the
>
railroad yard that AG wrote a poem about, the apple pie of the midwest in On
>
The Road, and the exceptional "ordinary" prople profiled by Charles
Kuralt
> Beat Indeed!
>
> It
is not well known that Kuralt was a friend and sometimes mentor to Dr.
>
Hunter S. Thompson and was also a lifelong Greenwhich Villager (and rural
>
North Carolina). His passing leaves no
one on the media who did what he did
> -
chasing the good in ordinary folks instead of scandel and gossip.
>
>
Take time to smell the roses today, and remember Charles Kuralt.
>
>
Howard Park
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 20:06:12 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Wilhelm Reich
Reich
probably didn't realized that he was getting into the number one
American
obsession. It is true this obsession
borders could be insane. The
new
morality speak of the New York Times and the current politics of
political
correctness will always cover up a reality that we haven't dealt
with in
this country. However it is secondary
to our karma with the tribal
peoples
which must also be dealt with. Unfortunately for gen-x and beyond
things
may get more difficult for those who can't fend for themselves on the
bottom
of our class and economic beliefs which are a shedding of that same
sexual
armor.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 17:14:37 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: "The Playful Poets"
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Someone
certainly didn't forget any of his perscriptions this morning. =
I take
it art is pretty grand stuff.
William
H. Rose, III wrote:
> =
>
The Playful Poets
> by
William H. Rose, III
> =
>
Kerouac ruck-sack back-pack Buddha-Jack beat-back run-on James Joyce fi=
rst-choice
>
odd-voice free-fall flowing, you know, come on. (In cosmic slums Jack w=
rote
the bums
>
and beat upon his clever-kicked and hobo drums in search of wide-eyed l=
overs
who
>
would hum.) On the road his story told in non-stop verse so nudely bold=
=2E
Kicks and
>
chicks and movin=92 on; swimmin=92 in women and carryin=92 on. Kerouac =
road-knack
>
Dharma-pack mystic poet of our past. . . .
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 17:24:09 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: "where have all the scholars gone
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Marie,
shame
on you. Here I was getting ready to
enjoy some feel good posts
about
"Death" and "Life" and "Poetry" and
"ART" and "Bursting Hormones"
and how
hip and wonderful I feel after discovering the Beats and you go
and
turn the discussion back to boring old specific books which I might
have to
read unless I can find a Comics Classics or a Cliff's Notes.
What a
cranky old Beat Chick you are.
I am
going to have to renew my subscription to Seventeen if this keeps
up.
"Teen
Angel, can you see me
Teen
Angel, can you hear me
Are you
somewhere up above
And are
you still my own True Love"
Bif
(and Muffy)
Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
>
long time passing," where have all the scholars gone?
> i
know its summer, BUT
>
there is a remarkable change over on the list, from young folks chatting up
> a
storm and maybe a few posts to sink teeth into (or pomes or folks or
>
whatever) . . .
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 20:22:16 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Road
In a
message dated 97-07-06 12:33:51 EDT, you write:
<< Robert told them all to stick it, if they
didn't like it. >>
An
article that really impressed me when I was a kid, was Mitchum being
busted
for pot and there was a picture of him doing time at the LA county
prison
farm. A reporter or someone was asking him questions when he was
milking
a cow. He aimed her tit at the person's face and squirted a stream of
milk.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 20:36:54 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: CODY PART ONE
In a
message dated 97-07-06 17:16:43 EDT, you write:
<<
I still like the shit thing on pg. 26
"...we are nothing but shits and we'll
all die and eat shit in graves..." >>
A
little off-thread here, but a while back Claude Peleiu said he read an
article
in Rolling Stone about Chuck Berry and copraphelia. Did anyone read
it?
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 20:39:00 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Denise Levertov.
Worse
than discourse!
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 19:41:17 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: FireWorks and FireWalks and rusty
strings
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The
Independence Day
Fireworks
opened
a universal
wormhole
that
connected
the
cybernetic grapevine
to
graveyards of memory
which
i'd just recently unearthed.
archeaology
of memory
is an
old habit.
After
FireWalk
was
done
and i
read it
and
mailed it around
and
read it aloud
here
and there
i
realized that it
wasn't
about
the
ghosts in the words
but
a ghost
hidden
behind all the words
and
that
Anne
was
right all along
about
where
my
heart
abided
despite
my vows to the contrary
and
now
after typing the
saga
onto
this cybernetic
highway
the
FireWorks hit me
another
grand
irony
as the
Independence
day
celebrations
in DC
bring
together
young
maya
with
the princess
who was
this
ghost
and i
wrote of her memory
to maya
as maya
met the princess
at an
Independence Day Celebration
and i
hear
through
the grapevine
that it
is just
two
weeks
to the
princess'
wedding
to
another David
one of
so many
in the
universe
and i
must
am
compelled to create
a
fitting
wedding
gift
which
may or may not ever reach them.
so
i pull
out my old
Ovation
and a
garage sale
tape
recorder
and
spend
an hour and a half
that
seemed
like
a
decade or two
singing
and playing
on
rusty strings
with
softened fingers
and a
growling voice
and
create
a
package
and
fear the rusted strings
may
create
infection
but
the
artistic expression
is
perhaps my best
birthing
in many
many many years
and as
the package is being finished
i can
barely barely
type
with my left hand
for the
soreness
from
the rust
and
i thank
the Beat-L
grapevine
for
creating the
wormhole
that
let me into this
happy
celebration
in two
weeks
even
though i'm a faded memory
in
faded jeans
and
firmly
planted in the Midwest.
Somewhere
on the first
side of
the tape
i
started into
You are
My Sunshine
my
only
Sunshine
and
left time completely
and i
returned
to
wonder just
where
it came from
cuz
i'd
never ever
played
that song
or sang
that song while playing
and the
muse just
laughed
and Hank Williams coughed
and
gave me a good kick
and i
let the
tape run out while
i went
to the kitchen
for a
cup of coffee
and an
Old Gold Light
Now the
second side
winds
to an end
with my
reflection
and her
reflection
so high
above
these walls
in an
eternity in the woods of Vermont
that is
always there
but is
thankfully now
pleasantly
passed along
to
another
David
more oriented to her East coast ways.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
p.s. this whole experience has put me hopelessly
behind on Visions of
Cody
but i've had my own visions so i ain't gonna cry over spilt blood.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 21:10:57 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Great Rememberer
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Someone
posted about Ginsburg's notes appearing in the back of VoC. My
copy is
the First McGraw-Hill Paperback Edition, 1974.
In the
beginning,
it contains The Great Rememberer, which is the introduction
and was
written by Allen May 17, 1972-Denver -- June 9, 1972, Rendezvous
Mountain,
Tetons, Wyo. Is this the same, or did
Allen write another
piece
for VoC? Thanks for your help.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 20:33:57 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: JK tribute: kicks joy
darkness--random thoughts in reply
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R.
Bentz Kirby wrote:
I have no identity that is not false.
>
>
still
out of time
meandering
through posts between X-files show
found
this line
of
particularly wise scholarly merit !!!!
shalom,
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 21:40:13 -0500
Reply-To: Bob Fox <bfox@SIU.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bob Fox <bfox@SIU.EDU>
Subject: Kicks, Joy, Darkness
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Marie Countryman was soliciting thoughts about the Kerouac tribute
CD,
KICKS, JOY, DARKNESS. For anyone who
might be interested, I have
reviewed
the disc for the electronic journal POSTMODERN CULTURE, which can
be
accessed at http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/pmc/contents.all.html.
Click
the icon reading "This Issue" (it's 7.3 [May 1997]) and scroll down
to the
reviews.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 21:42:02 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
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List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: skimming Part 1 Cody
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funny
... if i counted correctly, "Cody" appears PRECISELY 50 times in
Part
One. wonder if such a round number was
consciously planned??? :)
Most
meaningful line so far (but mostly cuz of fireworks escapade)
p.9 (of
the salina public library edition)
"So
it sit in Jamaica, Long Island in the night, thinking of Cody and
the
road -- happens to be a fog - distant low of kaxon moaning horn -
sudden
swash of locomotive steam, either that or crash of steel rods - a
car
washing by with the sound we all know from city dawns - reminds me
of
Cambridge, Mass. at dawn and i didn't go to Harvard -- ...."
so
perhaps some got caught in this foggy book.
The princess i wrote of
earlier
this evening lived in Jamaica and the memories of Jamaica are
striking
here (and throughout part one). but
this line especially cuz
we had
more than one rendevouz in Cambridge that were a fog where the
entire
world left and just us nobody else (except i do recall hearing
Dallas
bitching about us out in the parking lot fucking in my Toyota and
i
believe a van was scratched when in orgasmic confusion i attempted to
park a
very tall van in a very short parking garage and a dinner at
Legal
Seafood with two indians from the bronx)....
at any
rate. i may actually read part one
again when i re-enter time
myself
to see what i missed but i know where he's at in Jamaica and how
it can
play with memories and whatnot!
bye bye
-- off to count the number of times Henry Fonda appears in Part
One (i
didn't catch Jimmy Stewart in there at all - damn shame!)....
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:00:56 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: VoC
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A
couple of things. I'll save what I
think is my best for last.
1. I am only to page 10. I spent a lot of time trying to digest
Allen's
introduction. I like the way that Allen points out that
Jack wrote
history
15 years before. That is the way I
always felt.
2. I like the line on page 9
(ever
so far, in the hush, you can hear the tiny SQUEE of something, the
nameless
asthmas of the throat of Time)
That is
poetic.
3. We recently talked about the tree in the
forest, the poem unread, and
Jack
points out on page 10 that:
"When
I see a leaf fall, I always say goodbye -- And that has a sound
that is
lost unless there is a country silence at which time I'm sure it
really
rattles the earth, ..."
That
blows me away to think of the sound of the leaf letting go and
hitting
the earth and on one level, the leaf does rattle the earth.
But the
best to me is in the middle of the description of the food on
page 10
where he says, putting us on and raking the reviewers, and
paying
homage:
-- of
deepdish strudel, of time and the river -- of freshly baked
powdered
cookies --
And if
you have read Of Time and the River, you know what he means and
to me,
this is an incredibly funny funny funny thing.
If you haven't
read
it, I think it is about 916, or 912 pages long, though I may be off
so
slightly. Jack is jerking our chains
hard hard hard. I am LOL.
Much
better than the jerk off scene.
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:27:54 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: VoC
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Sorry
about the number of posts here, but, this is so sublime and scary
at the
same time. On page 12:
We find
the bar, rolling through the October climaxes of leaves falling
and
Halloween soon and I got red October shirt ah me so sad that every
year we
have to lose our October!
and
this in the paragraph right after he says:
All you
do is head straight for the grave, a face just covers a skull
awhile. Stretch that skull-cover and make it smile.
Prophet
or poet, or both?
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:28:17 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: VoC
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R.
Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
>
Sorry about the number of posts here, but, this is so sublime and scary
> at
the same time. On page 12:
>
> We
find the bar, rolling through the October climaxes of leaves falling
>
and Halloween soon and I got red October shirt ah me so sad that every
>
year we have to lose our October!
>
>
and this in the paragraph right after he says:
>
>
All you do is head straight for the grave, a face just covers a skull
>
awhile. Stretch that skull-cover and
make it smile.
>
>
Prophet or poet, or both?
>
>
Peace,
> --
>
Bentz
>
bocelts@scsn.net
>
>
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
prophet
of
Dylan at his grave!
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:59:05 -0400
Reply-To: GYENIS@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Visionaries (Eliot/Ginsberg again,
for Michael Skau & et al)
In a
message dated 97-06-30 13:02:48 EDT, dcarter@TOGETHER.NET (Diane Carter)
writes:
<<
(Prufrock)
"Do I dare disturb the universe?"
>>
Disturb
it all you want. It still won't change one mother-fuckin fucken
thing.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:59:09 -0400
Reply-To: GYENIS@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: suspicious, but perhaps unfounded.
In a
message dated 97-07-01 08:05:11 EDT, atrigili@LYNX.DAC.NEU.EDU (Tony
Trigilio)
writes:
<<
R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>Has anyone on the list ever heard of
Diane De Rooy.
Yes.
...snip...
I have found Diane to be honest, considerate,
compassionate--and a very
good writer.
She is a professional. >>
Is she
real or Memorex?
Am I
Attila the Hun
or
Tilly the bum.
Why do
I keep ducking the question
when
all I really want is a little respect.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:59:14 -0400
Reply-To: GYENIS@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: suspicious, but perhaps unfounded.
In a
message dated 97-07-02 00:14:48 EDT, lisar@NET-LINK.NET (Lisa M. Rabey)
writes:
<<
And considering that I haven't spoken to 3/4 of the people on the list
here
personally, met them, had coffee with them
nor shared in their lives, which
includes you sherri, maybe you do not exist
either. >>
I just
checked and I am not on any of the lists and have therefore determined
that I
do not exist.
I am
not Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:59:17 -0400
Reply-To: GYENIS@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: <<Diane>>, di prima,
<<beauty>>
In a
message dated 97-07-01 09:04:10 EDT, love_singing@MSN.COM (Sherri)
writes:
<<
douglas, i think that einstein proved that time essentially stands still
at
the speed of light... am i mistaken?
>>
I remember speeding through the light one
time.
$100 dollars later, I now stand still at the
light.
Red means stop, yellow means stop, green
means proceed with caution.
yieldingly,
Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:59:26 -0400
Reply-To: GYENIS@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kill Time, Save Vegetables
In a
message dated 97-07-02 18:33:49 EDT, iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET (James
William
Marshall) writes:
<<
If anyone's interested, I'll relate more of what's been going on with God,
Satan and other religious figures and me
later. >>
Shouldn't
god be making child support payments or something?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:59:32 -0400
Reply-To: GYENIS@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: suspicious, but perhaps
unfounded.& then
In a
message dated 97-07-02 02:38:43 EDT, pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM (Patricia
Elliott)
writes:
<< I wish that i felt more secure about the
memory babe
material but my primary concern in that controversy
was not the theft of
materials and access to that collection (here
i shout, pardon) IT IS THE
JK ARCHIVES. >>
The JK
Archives? What's up with that?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 22:21:58 -0700
Reply-To: "Steve Smith a.k.a. Whiskey
Wordsmith" <psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Steve Smith a.k.a. Whiskey
Wordsmith" <psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cody
Comments:
To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
In-Reply-To: <UPMAIL14.199707061728350733@msn.com>
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On Sun,
6 Jul 1997, Sherri wrote:
>
btw, maybe this is stupid, or maybe it's old news, but does anyone else see
>
neal as a sort of mystical reincarnation, in JK's mind, of Gerard?
>
>
ciao,
>
sherri
>
Hi,
Sherri. Yes, I do see C a bit this way. In fact, look at K's
references/descriptions
of C in OTR--and he is referred as an "older
brother"
type (those are my q marks, not K's). C is what K has
lost--G--and
what in a very real way America has lost--the adonis from
the
snowy mystical west of the ol' luminous Dream. It always breaks my
heart
to read and see K's intensity of feeling for and trust in the
spirit
energy of Neal---but then we find that their relationship and even
Neal's
soul and daybreak days are like evrything else wheeling around on
the
"quivering meat conception" and are therefore mutable and always
already
going away and changed.
best,
steve
Pacific
University
Forest
Grove, Oregon
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:44:16 +0000
Reply-To: "neudorf@discovland.net"
<neudorf@DISCOVLAND.NET>
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From: "neudorf@discovland.net"
<neudorf@DISCOVLAND.NET>
Subject: Jazz-poetics
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Please
brace yourself,
Coltrane
has been my man for a little while now . . . touched him with
'a love
supreme' . . . the saxophone being his rendition of the divine .
. . the
documentation of religious experience is not found through
theology,
but through art, through creation . . .
i have
been trying to understand 'Om', but having some difficulty . . .
must be
patient . . . 'Kulu Se Mama' (?) is also up there . . .
With
the jazz-poetry group, Rhythmic Missionaries, my brother performed
a piece
unofficially titled 'Jazzku' = he recites haiku then the
instruments
interpret / respond, etc . . . a bunch of traditional nature
/
seasonal haiku, haiku centred on the spirits (beer, tequila, etc):
too much tequila
has been drunk this evening
composing haiku
Gautama
(the Buddha) haiku, and the final haiku in climax:
bid-de-deeeeee-de-bop
oh how i wd like to stop
writing haiku flop!
With
regards to Coltrane, this is part of my own writing, 'Winter' from
'Mountain
Tasting':
these questions pour out now able to
pronounce,
last season s hurrying through
eternity
has slowed to the beat of Eternal
Slowdown,
boomerang trajectories of John Coltrane Om
fantastic
envelop my body with Trinity
translations,
Church persuasions are not my
affiliation,
(but i continue to dig in relaxation)
i
realise much of this is given out of context . . . however . . .
'Eternal
Slowdown' is a Kerouac term found in Mexico City Blues
describing
Charlie Parker . . . 'hurrying through eternity' is a
Lawrence
Ferlinghetti word combination from the poem 'After the Birds
Have
Cried' (?) . . . the line structure is originally simply one line,
instead
of commas there are dashes (Ginsberg's 'dash of consciousness').
The one
line is spread out into numerous lines simply because the page
is not
wide enough, (although the way it is written in this letter is
just as
good) . . . i interpret the use of Ginsberg's dashes as the
combination
of diverse thoughts. The mind thinks a thousand thoughts at
one
time, why not document it that way. The problem with using
punctuation,
etc. is that you have to be consistent with it = system /
pattern
(in the one poem at least), or else there is no coherency, which
is
needed if the piece is written for an audience, (punctuation is used
to aid
the reader; yes / no ?).
As
well, certain poems of mine i view as purely jazz pieces - not with
jazz
themes, but jazz itself - the long line, although having a rhythm
implied,
is written without the rhythm being visual, giving the reader
freedom
to interpret the rhythm, similar to Coltrane's rendition of the
traditional
'Greensleeves', or any artist performing a cover piece =
which
means, the reader himself is a creator . . . as well, certain word
combinations
are repeated throughout a poem, similar to a repeated riff,
implying
similar rhythm for those syllables = notes . . .
o.k. .
. . here we go: poem titled "Days Gone By Remembered Now". The
long
dash does not come out properly on email, so will settle with " -
",
it is not to be confused with the hyphen ( ex. rainbow-chasing).
Italycs
don't come out either . . .
Days
Gone By Remembered Now
27/12/96
- 22/1/97
1
days
gone by remembered now while rainbow-chasing in Nappa Valley
California on wet-wet winding 2-lane
highway - passing vineyard
after
vineyard
as if
gold and maybe more lay hidden behind trees in misty mountain
range
just beyond finger reach must get closer or, drink bottle after
bottle
green
attire and children-giggle further fascination into multi-coloured
realm
where all is illusory and all is
imaginary in the all-real world of
the
mind-
diversion or, in the all-real world of the secret language of the
body
2
days
gone by remembered now while separated from young heart relations
her curley blond locks of fabled
proportions strong jawed, strong
limbed wonderfully waisted and fantastic
as if
dreams could capture laughter, teeth, hair and majestic all to
swim
with her voice in candle-lit bathtub to promenade naked in
cemetery
with
firm limbs of youth there is only youth in love, only strength
fingers
locked in fingers to winter cool-breeze gallivanting the
immensity
of
it all
two bodies, genitalia cloaked into one rhythm one pulse
one
body, mind: thought one joy, bliss, elation illumination
union
and
formation in non-thought the holy silence of sex
3
days
gone by remembered now while back in bilingual city of
flake-covered
stark-lit avenues they being urban passageways made by man
returning
now to awakened status after months of
decay salt and sand being
the
main
things expected
as if
white climate returned man to earth in new beginning where clean
holy
ash
washes dirt and sin and repulsive reality
off must get head
straight
before
day of reckoning or, at least must get head straight before
last
winter
snow-
fall
ice-sheets
turn layer of earth into cold blue experience with night
howls
descended from the gods of the arctic
coast where did they hail
from?
where
do they go? tempting me in this land of plenty in season empty
the
gods
and their terror-hollow howls (slap head to understand) the
holy
silence of
death
4
days
gone by remembered now while digesting waves of clear-mind
afterthought
from wind-swept disorder harmony discovered in dry crunching snow
or,
harmony discovered in wet snowball snow
as if
weather was a factor it being
sense-delicious and rambunctious -
it
being
the IT FANTASTIC where in mid-street,
naked and alive, the pressing
of
fingers
on virgin snow is felt under ice-sheets,
felt under layer of cold
blue
earth
felt to the burning core!
from
base of spine to solar plexus, inside throat to top of head
emotions
in
motion
emotions in motion burning,
rising, rising to stomach
in
between
eyebrows, in between thighs emotions in motion emotions in
motion
the weight of love: awaiting fortune the burden of solitude: the
birds
of
utopia
where did this hail from? where does it go? does the man
at the
corner hold the knife of redemption?
--------
('the
weight of love' & 'the burden of solitude' = from a Ginsberg poem:
'Song'
)
I use
this medium (email) to help me document my own poetics.
I know
this has been wordy.
Thank
you for listening - would like some feedback from poem, if
possible.
JN
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 01:55:32 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: visions of codeine
i have
not started voc yet. I'm too lazy to go
to the library. there, I've
said
it.
I saw
that movie, Men In Black tonight. I
usually never see anything that
isn't
either foreign or an "art film" or better yet both. But, you know
what? i
thought MIB was a great movie. Except
that i had to pay for both
myself
and my goddam boyfriend.
words
like statues crack and crumble
exposed to oxygen.
spurious
claims of love
spoken
into stale bedroom air
have
come back to haunt and destroy their creator.
---maya
"when i say i'm in love, you best believe I mean I'm in luv, L-U-V."
DISCLAIMER:
THE POST YOU HAVE JUST READ IS ENTIRELY UN-BEAT-RELATED, THANK
YOU AND
HAVE A GREAT NIGHT
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 05:49:38 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Cody
thx for
the reply steve... y'know the other
thing i been thinkin bout is
Jung's
anima and animus archetypes. maybe the
whole thing was JK's constant
search
for wholeness by knowing his own archetypes from outside himself; i.e.,
Neal is his animus self and Gerard his
anima. this then is transmuted to
America
- the upright, uptight, established,
religious, oppressive majority
vs. the
wild, brave, daring, beat, living, questioning, mocking minority...
paix,
sherri
----------
From: Steve Smith a.k.a. Whiskey Wordsmith
Sent: Sunday, July 06, 1997 10:21 PM
To: Sherri
Cc: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: Cody
On Sun,
6 Jul 1997, Sherri wrote:
>
btw, maybe this is stupid, or maybe it's old news, but does anyone else see
> neal
as a sort of mystical reincarnation, in JK's mind, of Gerard?
>
>
ciao,
>
sherri
>
Hi,
Sherri. Yes, I do see C a bit this way. In fact, look at K's
references/descriptions
of C in OTR--and he is referred as an "older
brother"
type (those are my q marks, not K's). C is what K has
lost--G--and
what in a very real way America has lost--the adonis from
the
snowy mystical west of the ol' luminous Dream. It always breaks my
heart
to read and see K's intensity of feeling for and trust in the
spirit
energy of Neal---but then we find that their relationship and even
Neal's
soul and daybreak days are like evrything else wheeling around on
the
"quivering meat conception" and are therefore mutable and always
already
going away and changed.
best,
steve
Pacific
University
Forest
Grove, Oregon
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 01:07:22 +0000
Reply-To: "neudorf@discovland.net"
<neudorf@DISCOVLAND.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "neudorf@discovland.net"
<neudorf@DISCOVLAND.NET>
Subject: the beat
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Bentz
wrote:
>
Take it away, Dr. Sax. Play on
Train. Wail on Roland Kirk. Play on
>
Jazz man. Anybody but Kenny G!
=
take it
away
Dr. Sax /
play on train / /
wail on
Roland Kirk
play on
Jazz man /
Anybody
but
Kenny G!
slashes
[ / ] = syllable pause
in a
5/5 time signature (?)
--------
"Ode
to a Queen Mary Birthday Bash Reunion"
1997
. . .
promised /
her a
poem
that
night
i drank
. . . /
gin after gin after - - - -
dream-
ing of
gin
. . .
and was lucky / - -
enough - -
t have her
pour me
the
rounds . . . /
JN
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 02:05:33 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: rhymers
bones
dry faster in the sand,
my
promised land.
Ancient
columns of black granite
other
senses, from other planets.
Where
the highway turns to rubble,
an
electric, metal, shining bubble.
Rising
softly in the loudness,
the
sea, the night, the sky is cloudless.
When I
say I ain't gonna shove,
you
best believe I mean I'm in love.
-m
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 02:46:42 -0400
Reply-To: Tajimapena@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Renee Tajima
<Tajimapena@AOL.COM>
Subject: unsubscribe
Dear
Beat-L, please cancel my subscription to Beat-L temporarily. I will be
travelling
for a while and cannot get to my email.
Thank you! Renee Tajima
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 02:36:21 -0700
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Re: CODY PART ONE
Comments:
To: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
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I don't
know if anyone has brought this up (forgive me, Marie, if you
did),
but the biggest thing I noticed in rereading the first portion of
VOC is
JK's stunning use of colour (colour spelled the Canadian way cos
we have
yet to pry ourselves from the claws of the Commonwealth). In
nearly
every sketch in the first 32 pages colours play a vital role:
'Coffee
is served in white porcelain mugs-sometimes brown and cracked.
An old
pot with a half inch of black fat sits on the grill...' (p.3-4)
'a torn
rubber carpet leading to ticket box...painted gaudy orange
brown;
[marble counter] was once painted brown...now has a shapeless
color
like shit against the gray, almost shit-gray sidewalk' (p.4)
'In the
raw wood wall a strange beautiful window with blue and red
stained
glass fringes; sprawling "alpine lodge" crazy crooked wood
house...pale
shapeless snot green, stained with ages of rain and snow,
onetime
red (now forlorn hint of red)' (p.5)
'Western
Music Co. written in white against green glass with lights
behind
but so sooty is the white part it makes a dirty sad effect; the
Harmony
Bar and Grill in crimson neon upon the gray sidewalk' (p.5-6)
'The
Men's room in Third Avenue El has wood walls painted green...yellow
up to old
carved wooden ceiling' (p.6)
'noble
old ceiling of ancient decorated in fact almost baroque (Louis
XV?)
plaster now browned a smoky rich tan color' (p.10)
'she
wears low-cut green sexy dress under red coat...her green dress has
ribbon
collar then opens below to reveal bosom breastbone which is no
longer
milkwhite but weather red.' (p.11)
'the
sky looking like it had been sugar cured, peppered and cloved and
smoked
during the night like a ham and was retaining hints of glistening
moisture
in the skin-somewhere in its pigmentation.' (p.14)
'I see
a Negro cat wearing an ordinary gray felt hat but a deep blue, or
purplish
shirt with white shiny pearl-type buttons-a gray sharkskin suit
jacket
over it-but brown pants, black shoes, deep blue ordinary
one-stripe
socks and gabardine topper short and beat,..carrying brown
paper
bag...-dark brownskin- his big hands hang, his fingernails are
pink
(not white) and are soiled from a laboring job...' (p.18)
'a
bleak rectory...is that peculiarly pale orange brick, color of puke,
cat's
puke...the oaken door but pale brown oaken not dark...' (p.20)
'the
MERIT Food Shop, written in green neon (greon) in the window, MERIT
is, and
Food Shop in orange-now why?-...the floor is all shades of brown
and
yellow "pebbled" marble...'(p.26)
And the
best colour description...Jack's stained-glass window at St.
Patrick's
Cathedral:
'a
lonely icy congealed blue with streaks of hot pink-little blue
holes-painted
with an immeasureable blue ink, noir comme bleu, black
like
blue...the other windows grow rich, brown, dark, secret, get better
with
age of light like wine with age of Time-...my holy blue window, the
one
like the window at 94-21 that made me so often think there was a
weird
blue light in the railyards...taking the ordinary corner
steetlamp...and
giving it inky blue hues like that
apocalyptic-end-of-the-world
blue light, the light of subterranean
stars...these
glass windows refract NIGHT too for now I see nothing but
the
rich-dim recollections of what at dusk was a Rembrandt barrel of ale
in a
Dublin saloon when Joyce was young...'
JK's
use of colour continues through all his books, and certain colours
are
associated with different feelings:
white,
blue, gray-coldness, bleakness...stemming from the cold Lowell
winters
of Jack's youth
red,
brown-warmth, comfort...for instance the 'browns' in his family's
old
house and the redbrick of the factories in Lowell.
(so
where does 'mauve boilermakers' fit among these definitions???)
As far as
Kerouac's spontaneous prose goes, the two standout pieces are
his
reverie over the girl at the cafeteria (which has been covered so
I'll
skip that) and his brilliant latenight musing in the deserted Times
Square
cafe (p.16-18).
In the
first part he watches an Arabic-looking man, and falls into an
'Aly
Khan' Egyptian-themed reverie, fantasizing the man is about to be
dragged
back through the door and offered as sacrifice, the door being
'a big
green door [which] holds itself up like a lamb to sacrifice to
the sun
at sea dawn over him, and it has wings.'
Soon,
however, the huge plate glass window catches Jack's eye and he
starts
a mesmerizing hallucinatory spiel about the images he sees, both
the
latenight street scene on 6th Ave. and the images from inside the
cafe
reflected in the nighttime window: 'a great scene of New York at
night
with cars and cabs and people rushing by and Amusement center,
Bookstore,
Leo's Clothing, Printing, and Ward's Hamburger and all of it
November
clear and dark is riddled by these diaphanous hanging neons,
Japanese
walls, door, exit signs-'
Jack
begins to lose himself in the window before him ('like kaleidoscope
over
kaleidoscope'), then muse upon a fourth-story window across the
street,
and lose himself in the window again, the backwards cafe signs,
the
shiny flashes of passing cars, distorted images in a parked car's
round
fender. Finally, after a good half-hour or so of watching (and
writing
some absolutely amazing prose) he is brought back to the real
world
by the sounds around him, and he concludes his sketch with a
romantic,
heart-felt sentence that shows Jack as happy as he's ever
been:
'I hear above the clatter and sleepiness of cafeteria dishes (and
swish
of revolving door with flapping rubbers) and voices moaning, I
hear
above this the faint klaxons and moving rushes of the city and I
have my
great immortal metropolitan inside-the-city feeling that I first
dug
(and all of us) as an infant...smack in the heart of shiny
glitters.'
Pardon
my language, but I had nearly forgotten what a fucking incredible
masterpiece
Visions of Cody is. And still 350 pages to go!
having
a blast retuning to my ole buddy Jack,
Adrien
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 02:55:09 -0700
Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Adrien Begrand
<vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Re: JK tribute: kicks joy darkness
Comments:
To: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
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Marie
Countryman wrote:
Hi
there Marie,
>
>
any one out there listening to the JK tribute CD?
yup...a
fine cd, isn't it?
>
personally, i am really loving maggie estap&spitters "skid row
wine"--great
>
performance piece and the kind of readings i aspire to.
That's
my least favorite cut on the cd, one of the three or so
disappointments
(Eddie Vedder, you're totally clueless!). I don't think
much of
Maggie Estep. Too much shtick. All this whiny, loud,
semi-yelling,
New York caterwauling is grating to my ears. Enough
already!
Her artistic high point (in my very narrow opinion) was that
heybaby-yobaby-heybaby-yobaby-yoyoyo-baby-yoyoyo
song a few years back.
But
that's just me.
What's
my favorite? I love so many of the tracks...Juliana is her usual
adorable
self, a wonderful reading, kinda like kid's story time at the
library,
people don't realize Jack was a big kid at heart and could
write
with a lot of whimsy...Warren Zevon is great, love how he says
"wiiinnnne"
(he should do a Kerouac book-on-tape with that great
voice)...HST
is, well, his usual inimitable drunken mumbling hilarious
self...Richard
Lewis is surprisingly good...Allen, Ferlinghetti, and
Uncle
Bill are in top form...Jack reading MacDougal St. Blooze is
wonderful,
totally relaxed compared to his reading of the same pome
(different
excerpt) on the Steve Allen album...Robert Hunter and Johnny
Depp
are good at reading the VOC bits...
In all,
though, the one that steals the show is John Cale's "The Moon".
Truly
awesome and majestic.
Agh,
been writing all night. Time for bed. I'll come out to play
tomorrow.
Good
night.
Adrien
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 06:14:14 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Cody
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Sherri
wrote:
>
>
thx for the reply steve... y'know the
other thing i been thinkin bout is
>
Jung's anima and animus archetypes.
maybe the whole thing was JK's constant
>
search for wholeness by knowing his own archetypes from outside himself; i.e.,
> Neal is his animus self and Gerard his
anima. this then is transmuted to
>
America - the upright, uptight,
established, religious, oppressive majority
>
vs. the wild, brave, daring, beat, living, questioning, mocking minority...
>
>
paix,
>
sherri
>
>
----------
>
From: Steve Smith a.k.a. Whiskey
Wordsmith
>
Sent: Sunday, July 06, 1997 10:21 PM
>
To: Sherri
>
Cc: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>
Subject: Re: Cody
>
> On
Sun, 6 Jul 1997, Sherri wrote:
>
>
> btw, maybe this is stupid, or maybe it's old news, but does anyone else
see
>
> neal as a sort of mystical reincarnation, in JK's mind, of Gerard?
>
>
>
> ciao,
>
> sherri
>
>
>
Hi, Sherri. Yes, I do see C a bit this way. In fact, look at K's
>
references/descriptions of C in OTR--and he is referred as an "older
>
brother" type (those are my q marks, not K's). C is what K has
>
lost--G--and what in a very real way America has lost--the adonis from
>
the snowy mystical west of the ol' luminous Dream. It always breaks my
>
heart to read and see K's intensity of feeling for and trust in the
> spirit
energy of Neal---but then we find that their relationship and even
>
Neal's soul and daybreak days are like evrything else wheeling around on
>
the "quivering meat conception" and are therefore mutable and always
>
already going away and changed.
>
>
best,
>
>
steve
>
>
Pacific University
>
Forest Grove, Oregon
And Dr.
Sax would be his shadow then i suppose.
How are
you coming along in Aion?
it's
across the room and i'm too far away to check and see where i'm at
on that
one.
I am awake
and alive here on planet earth
(to any
who might have wondered)
my
excursion out of time
was a
brief
beautiful
excursion.
there
is but one tape and
some
cyber-conversation
that
even can
show
that i was gone at all.
so
hopefully
the
tape will go off
snail
mail
and the
collective delete
buttons
will have worked
their
charms
and
i'll be back
in the
old
Independence
Day
gruff
growling
mood
i was
in before
overtaken
by nostalgia.
i
intend to get Damn serious about reading Cody today.
i
intend
but
rome weren't built on one good day of good intentions
and
so who
knows ..... gotta play taxi for step-Dad with the bypassed
heart. perhaps i can read a page between each stop.
Good
morning
to
y'all where-ever you are!
It smell
out the window like the Harvest best hurry in the gathering
cause
within a day or two we're gonna have us one hell of a good old
Harvest
season Kansas storm (the kind movies are made about!)
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 08:13:34 -0400
Reply-To: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: HST and hell's angels
In-Reply-To: <199707062308.TAA07664@pike.sover.net>
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DC
asked me off list if HST really hung with the angels or psuedo'd himself
through,
and since it is part of my summer reading project might as well
post
here as well
yes he
lived and rode with them for over two years. the book is a wonderful
piece
of journalism in which events are filtered through the consciousness
of the
journalist. it makes a great comparison piece to the
explosion/gonzo/novel/journalism
of F&L.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 08:13:49 -0400
Reply-To: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: CODY PART ONE
In-Reply-To: <33C0B895.11B5@sk.sympatico.ca>
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wonderful!
i only zeroed in on brown, (reminscent of Dr SAX brown)., and
JK's
word "greon" for green neon. this is wonderful reading and also
brings
up
"word sketches" of JK again. if you are going to sketch in words you
best be
aware of colours et al. thanks so much adrien, great post.
mc
>I
don't know if anyone has brought this up (forgive me, Marie, if you
>did),
but the biggest thing I noticed in rereading the first portion of
>VOC
is JK's stunning use of colour (colour spelled the Canadian way cos
>we
have yet to pry ourselves from the claws of the Commonwealth). In
>nearly
every sketch in the first 32 pages colours play a vital role:
>
>'Coffee
is served in white porcelain mugs-sometimes brown and cracked.
>An
old pot with a half inch of black fat sits on the grill...' (p.3-4)
>
>'a
torn rubber carpet leading to ticket box...painted gaudy orange
>brown;
[marble counter] was once painted brown...now has a shapeless
>color
like shit against the gray, almost shit-gray sidewalk' (p.4)
>
>'In
the raw wood wall a strange beautiful window with blue and red
>stained
glass fringes; sprawling "alpine lodge" crazy crooked wood
>house...pale
shapeless snot green, stained with ages of rain and snow,
>onetime
red (now forlorn hint of red)' (p.5)
>
>'Western
Music Co. written in white against green glass with lights
>behind
but so sooty is the white part it makes a dirty sad effect; the
>Harmony
Bar and Grill in crimson neon upon the gray sidewalk' (p.5-6)
>
>'The
Men's room in Third Avenue El has wood walls painted green...yellow
>up
to old carved wooden ceiling' (p.6)
>
>'noble
old ceiling of ancient decorated in fact almost baroque (Louis
>XV?)
plaster now browned a smoky rich tan color' (p.10)
>
>'she
wears low-cut green sexy dress under red coat...her green dress has
>ribbon
collar then opens below to reveal bosom breastbone which is no
>longer
milkwhite but weather red.' (p.11)
>
>'the
sky looking like it had been sugar cured, peppered and cloved and
>smoked
during the night like a ham and was retaining hints of glistening
>moisture
in the skin-somewhere in its pigmentation.' (p.14)
>
>'I
see a Negro cat wearing an ordinary gray felt hat but a deep blue, or
>purplish
shirt with white shiny pearl-type buttons-a gray sharkskin suit
>jacket
over it-but brown pants, black shoes, deep blue ordinary
>one-stripe
socks and gabardine topper short and beat,..carrying brown
>paper
bag...-dark brownskin- his big hands hang, his fingernails are
>pink
(not white) and are soiled from a laboring job...' (p.18)
>
>'a
bleak rectory...is that peculiarly pale orange brick, color of puke,
>cat's
puke...the oaken door but pale brown oaken not dark...' (p.20)
>
>'the
MERIT Food Shop, written in green neon (greon) in the window, MERIT
>is,
and Food Shop in orange-now why?-...the floor is all shades of brown
>and
yellow "pebbled" marble...'(p.26)
>
>And
the best colour description...Jack's stained-glass window at St.
>Patrick's
Cathedral:
>'a
lonely icy congealed blue with streaks of hot pink-little blue
>holes-painted
with an immeasureable blue ink, noir comme bleu, black
>like
blue...the other windows grow rich, brown, dark, secret, get better
>with
age of light like wine with age of Time-...my holy blue window, the
>one
like the window at 94-21 that made me so often think there was a
>weird
blue light in the railyards...taking the ordinary corner
>steetlamp...and
giving it inky blue hues like that
>apocalyptic-end-of-the-world
blue light, the light of subterranean
>stars...these
glass windows refract NIGHT too for now I see nothing but
>the
rich-dim recollections of what at dusk was a Rembrandt barrel of ale
>in
a Dublin saloon when Joyce was young...'
>
>JK's
use of colour continues through all his books, and certain colours
>are
associated with different feelings:
>white,
blue, gray-coldness, bleakness...stemming from the cold Lowell
>winters
of Jack's youth
>red,
brown-warmth, comfort...for instance the 'browns' in his family's
>old
house and the redbrick of the factories in Lowell.
>(so
where does 'mauve boilermakers' fit among these definitions???)
>
>As
far as Kerouac's spontaneous prose goes, the two standout pieces are
>his
reverie over the girl at the cafeteria (which has been covered so
>I'll
skip that) and his brilliant latenight musing in the deserted Times
>Square
cafe (p.16-18).
>
>In
the first part he watches an Arabic-looking man, and falls into an
>'Aly
Khan' Egyptian-themed reverie, fantasizing the man is about to be
>dragged
back through the door and offered as sacrifice, the door being
>'a
big green door [which] holds itself up like a lamb to sacrifice to
>the
sun at sea dawn over him, and it has wings.'
>
>Soon,
however, the huge plate glass window catches Jack's eye and he
>starts
a mesmerizing hallucinatory spiel about the images he sees, both
>the
latenight street scene on 6th Ave. and the images from inside the
>cafe
reflected in the nighttime window: 'a great scene of New York at
>night
with cars and cabs and people rushing by and Amusement center,
>Bookstore,
Leo's Clothing, Printing, and Ward's Hamburger and all of it
>November
clear and dark is riddled by these diaphanous hanging neons,
>Japanese
walls, door, exit signs-'
>
>Jack
begins to lose himself in the window before him ('like kaleidoscope
>over
kaleidoscope'), then muse upon a fourth-story window across the
>street,
and lose himself in the window again, the backwards cafe signs,
>the
shiny flashes of passing cars, distorted images in a parked car's
>round
fender. Finally, after a good half-hour or so of watching (and
>writing
some absolutely amazing prose) he is brought back to the real
>world
by the sounds around him, and he concludes his sketch with a
>romantic,
heart-felt sentence that shows Jack as happy as he's ever
>been:
'I hear above the clatter and sleepiness of cafeteria dishes (and
>swish
of revolving door with flapping rubbers) and voices moaning, I
>hear
above this the faint klaxons and moving rushes of the city and I
>have
my great immortal metropolitan inside-the-city feeling that I first
>dug
(and all of us) as an infant...smack in the heart of shiny
>glitters.'
>
>Pardon
my language, but I had nearly forgotten what a fucking incredible
>masterpiece
Visions of Cody is. And still 350 pages to go!
>
>having
a blast retuning to my ole buddy Jack,
>
>Adrien
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 08:13:55 -0400
Reply-To: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: JK tribute: kicks joy darkness
In-Reply-To: <33C0BCFD.3B66@sk.sympatico.ca>
Mime-Version:
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>Marie
Countryman wrote:
>Hi
there Marie,
>>
>>
any one out there listening to the JK tribute CD?
>
>yup...a
fine cd, isn't it?
>
>>
personally, i am really loving maggie estap&spitters "skid row
wine"--great
>>
performance piece and the kind of readings i aspire to.
>
>That's
my least favorite cut on the cd, one of the three or so
>disappointments
(Eddie Vedder, you're totally clueless!).
_______
i dont
care for her voice so much as i like the way the band moves in and
out.
and the rhythm. and the stop start between lines or phrases. but i
conceed
in general re: worn out scene.
>
>What's
my favorite? I love so many of the tracks...Juliana is her usual
>adorable
self, a wonderful reading, kinda like kid's story time at the
>library,
people don't realize Jack was a big kid at heart and could
>write
with a lot of whimsy...
___________
absolutely.
silly goofball poems seems to be written for her, although i
can
hear JK also in background . the clarity of her voice and the capturing
of
child wonder is a joy.
Warren
Zevon is great, love how he says
>"wiiinnnne"
(he should do a Kerouac book-on-tape with that great
>voice)...HST
is, well, his usual inimitable drunken mumbling hilarious
>self...Richard
Lewis is surprisingly good...Allen, Ferlinghetti, and
>Uncle
Bill are in top form...Jack reading MacDougal St. Blooze is
>wonderful,
totally relaxed compared to his reading of the same pome
>(different
excerpt) on the Steve Allen album...Robert Hunter and Johnny
>Depp
are good at reading the VOC bits...
_________
agreed.
I love the mcdougal st. blues and would like to have been in sound
room
listening to them edit joe strummer and jack.
>
>In
all, though, the one that steals the show is John Cale's "The Moon".
>Truly
awesome and majestic.
_____________
just
re-listened to the track. yes i have to agree. ok maggie et al can
take
their places in line, john cale just got moved up to the front row, at
least.
more i listen, i think the more i will appreciate. thanks
>
>Agh,
been writing all night. Time for bed. I'll come out to play
>tomorrow.
>
>Good
night.
>__________
g'nightadrien!(it's
now morning on east coast) when you listen again,
listen
as carefully to michael stipe's "our gang" which has lodged in my
head
and won't get out. how carefully he enuciates (a miracle, for those
who
listened to REM a few years back), but
also how the music adds to the
little
scene and to me reflects back to dr sax bedroom imagination.
AND,
thanks
for coming out to play with me.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 13:57:50 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: a poetess in the early peace movement
Re: Denise Levertov.
In-Reply-To:
<970706203859_191982931@emout20.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version:
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At
20.39 06/07/97 -0400, Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM> wrote:
>Worse
than discourse!
>Charles
Plymell
>
Buona
giornata Charles, can i get better?
SUMMER
1961 by DENISE LEVERTOV
This is
the year when the old ones,
the old
great ones,
leave
us alone on the road.
The
road leads to the sea.
We have
the words in our pockets,
obscure
directions. The old ones
have
taken away the light of their presence,
we see
it moving away over a hill
off to
one side.
They
are not dying,
they
are withdrawn
into a
painful privacy
learning
to live without words.
E.P.,
"it looks like dying"-Williams: "I can't
describe
to you what has been
happening
to me"-
H.D.
"unable to speak."
The
darkness
twists
itself in the wind, the stars
are
small, the horizon
ringed
with confused urban light-haze.
They
have told us
the
road lead to the sea,
and
given
the
language into our hands.
We hear
our
footsteps each time a truck
has
dazzled past us and gone
leaving
us new silence.
One
can't reach
the sea
on this endless
road to
the sea unless
one
turns aside at the end, it seems,
follows
the owl
that silently glides above it
aslant,
back and forth,
and
away into deep woods.
But for
us the road
unfurls
itself, we count the
words
in our pockets, we wonder
how it
will be without them, we don't
stop
walking, we know
there
is far to go, sometimes
we
think the night wind carries
a smell
of the sea...
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
* not a competent beat *
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:17:49 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: unsubscribe/fyi
i
noticed many people seem to have forgotten:
You may
leave the list at any time by sending a
"SIGNOFF BEAT-L" command
to LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (or LISTSERV@CUNYVM.BITNET).
this is
not a hint to anybody so please don't jump on me. I just wanted to
provide
this info to those who are unsubscibing, so they don't find 10000
messages
and wonder what the hell happened.
--maya
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:43:45 -0400
Reply-To: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: JK tribute: kicks joy darkness
Comments:
To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca
In-Reply-To: <33C0BCFD.3B66@sk.sympatico.ca>
Mime-Version:
1.0
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adrien:
have
listened to the CD again, and you are so right about the john cale:
which
you called awesome and majestic. awe
some.
mc
thanks
for adding to my enjoyment of the CD and that of others, who may be
interested
enough by now to buy or listen, as poetry is moving toward
spoken
word and music, AG and Burroughs, having both explored and
experimented
with and i believe opened the door, homer.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:44:44 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: more dreams
she had
long light brown hair and such white skin that you want to taste it
to see
if it isn't ice after all. We were
running from....I mean towards, I
mean
from, something; I was pulling her hand, we stumbled along a very high,
very
rickety wooden walkway, the only way out. she kept falling.
suddenly
the realization that we are children.
running
in the poppy field, wearing black dresses.
late for school. Such
sadness!
the sun
made her skin steam. her eyes turned green when she experienced
pleasure,
red when she wanted to.... drink.
I was
confused, something in her face told me she was my reflection. We
ceased
being two, outside each other. We had
become one person, ME, just
before
i woke up.
Unfortunately
she is the type that drowns easily.
Before they made the
revisions
in their notebooks.
Now,
all i see are footsteps: men's trouser legs, shiny shoes. I somehow
know
he's wearing a hat. His feet move one
in front of the other endlessly.
It's
raining.
Zoom
onto the ground. That's how i know he
has a hat! because it's reflected
in the
blurred, moving ground, in the rainwater.
Also reflected are the neon
signs. it's night on East 7th street, but it's
really hot in the sense of
there
being a lot of cops around. Undercover.
But you
can tell it's the cops 'cause they all drive the same kind of car.
Fade to
black.
-------maya
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 22:51:01 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Cody, Part III
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Hi
everyone. Am twenty or so pages into
taped conversation, and in spite
of
Ginsberg's comments on the intent of this part, I am incredibly bored
and
yes, this is tedius going, the total disconnection of thought when
one is
high. Doesn't make me want to tape any
of my friends high. Makes
me want
to go back and read parts I & II again, if only to find a
coherent
word. Most of it is complete dribble
and not being able to
recall
anything at all. Going over Bull
shooting at a dead tree and
Irwin
constructing a bed, with lots of incoherent yea, yea, hee hee hees
in the
middle. The only thing Cody really
remembered so far is that he
has to
go out to buy more pot. Striking
contrast the to the absolute
gushy,
wordiness of parts I and II. Does
remind me of that Ginsberg line
where
he says "rocking and rolling all night over lofty incantations
which in
the morning were stanzas of gibberish."
Also, here for the
first
time we are meeting the hero, Cody, in his own words and thinking,
my god,
how can this guy possibly be a hero for anyone? However, I will
continue
to plow on, hoping the development of this initial fugue will
lead
somewhere else, like jazz, gathering more voices as it goes along.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 11:20:47 EDT
Reply-To: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Colors
Great
comments on Kerouac's use of color.
This has always been
something
that has struck me in K's work. He was
a real word painter.
I
suppose it goes along with his idea of starting with the "jewel
image"
etc. Be interesting at some point to compare the
colors he uses in his
writings
with those of his paintings.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 08:54:32 -0400
Reply-To: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MATT HANNAN <MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: freshman clearing house
Comments:
To: "Penn; Douglas; K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>
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>Matt,
you still there? What are you reading
these days?? OR seen any
>good
art exhibits recently?? equally
curious.
I can't
be still "there", there only exists for one second and then I'm
somewhere
else (paraphrasing part 1 of Dharma Bums).
Strangely
enough I'm reading Joyce's Portrait of the Artist..., rereading Dharma
Bums
(for a discussion of mountain climbing with the gang here in Colorado), and
trying
to track down my copy of VOC for the list.
Art? There's a decent exhibit by the Joyce
Society at the Tutt Library at
Colorado
College, there's also some good stuff at the Psychiatric Hospital I
work at
on weekends.
I'm
only on the list during the week.
matt
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 11:53:53 -0400
Reply-To: SSASN@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Arthur Nusbaum <SSASN@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: skimming Part 1 Cody
Dear
David:
At the
end of your "skimming part 1 Cody" message, you write:
"bye
bye- off to count the number of times Henry Fonda appears in Part One (i
didn't
catch Jimmy Stewart in there at all- damn shame!)....
Since
we're on the subject of such references, did you notice the description
of JK
running into a movie scene being filmed in front of a San Francisco
apartment
building? By coincidence, I saw the
movie SUDDEN FEAR with Joan
Crawford
and Jack Palance just before encountering the passage, and put 2&2
together-
he is describing a scene from that movie being shot on location. I
don't
have the book with me now but I will try to locate it, I think but am
not
sure that it's in part 1, and he uses a thinly-disguised name for Joan
Crawford
who's at the center of the anecdote, it's a great description of the
weirdness
and tension he experiences when he bumps into this scene.
Regards,
Arthur
S. Nusbaum
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 12:36:51 -0400
Reply-To: Ken Ostrander <kenster@MIT.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Ken Ostrander <kenster@MIT.EDU>
Subject: HENRY MILLER
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Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead
certainty,
even in the midst of chaos. From the
beginning it was never
anything
but chaos: it was a fluid which
enveloped me, which I breathed in
through
the gills. In the substrata, where the
moon shone steady and
opaque,
it was smooth and fecunding; above it was a jangle and a discord.
In
everything I quickly saw the opposite, the contradiction, and between
the
real and the unreal the irony, the paradox.
I was my own worst enemy.
There
was nothing I wished to do which I could just as well not do. Even
as a
child, when I lacked for nothing, I wanted to die: I wanted to
surrender
because I saw no sense in struggling. I
felt that nothing would
be
proved, substantiated, added or subtracted by continuing an existence
which I
had not asked for. Everybody around me
was a failure, or if not a
failure,
ridiculous. Especially the successful
ones. The successful ones
bored
me to tears. I was sympathetic to a
fault, but it was not sympathy
that
made me so. It was a purely negative
quality, a weakness which
blossomed
at the mere sight of human misery. I
never helped any one
expecting
that it would do any good; I helped because I was helpless to do
otherwise. To want to change the condition of affairs
seemed futile to me;
nothing
would be altered, I was convinced, except by a change of heart, and
who
could change the hearts of men? Now and
then a friend was converted:
it was
something to make me puke. I had no
more need of God than He of me,
and if
there were one, I often said to myself, I would meet Him calmly and
spit in
his face.
-from
TROPIC OF CAPRICORN
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 11:47:41 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Cody and visions
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Hmmmm.
... i
guess this one is slightly more serious than last post on Cody so
probably
not as meaningful.
as i
skim over and over thru part one (i find skimming a great way to
capture
the fleetiness of the visionaryiness) i keep being struck by the
"kind"
of vision being talked about or typed about here.
this is
in some regards an "out of time" experience in the longing and
memories
but almost a daydreamy feeling to it.
the thing that i'm
amazed
by and wonder about a bit is how completely "in space" JK is
during
these periods. the daydreaminess and
memory take him away from
the now
but the imagery -- so specific -- of sensual experience in the
here of
the situation is vividly typed.
so i'm
wondering a bit about this whole notion of visions as i begin to
wind
down to my afternoon siesta. i vaguely
recall reading some junk in
some
biographies about JK's notion of vision in contrast to others but
the
thing i catch that is impressive to me is his ability to
functionally
be out-of-time yet present-in-space together AND to be able
to put
it into words.
i will
probably skim it more and more to compleat the vision. someday i
might
even move on to Part 2 !!!!!!
hope
all is well with everyone else who have fallen into this book to
live
for awhile.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:20:23 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
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From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: Washington, DC Independence day
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<<beautiful>>
Maya
writ:
>
><<my
mind is drawing blank after blank after blank
like an
unstudied exam where the clocks tick loud, sweating.>>
>[......]
><<I
didn't want to, and I knew I wouldn't, go home last night.
It's a
new year for me. God bless
America.>>
not
much to report from on here in San Diego.
spent the fourth new
years
eve in Lala with a bunch of stoner cronies.
fireworks as promised
displayed
prominently. no frisbee :-(
homemade icecream was brown
sugar
and a few other spices sitting around
talking my warm oatmeal
beer
tight in my stomach sherman's
cigarettes compounding a coming
attraction
headache.
wrapped
my arms around her. not even a
kiss. nice. no, don't know
where
I'm staying. perhaps where I've been.
missed
Joyce and young Werther at the party.
sounds were happening thru
the
stereo cord, but nothing much to note.
kind of a let down actually.
good host, good people, poor party
technology. a casual affair.
what is
said. and what is not. so many comments and declarations on
the
silence. my hardened leather shell
crippled this monday morning.
sick of
metaphors. woke up in the middle of the
night, dreaming I was
being
watched like suzanne and the elders.
church bells and the fucking
sound
of lawn mowers at eight in the morning.
Douglas
sailed
thru the night
how the
beat was won there
gauranteed
prizes
sacrifice,
condoms, and virginity
lighters
without child safety devices
star
trek toasts that involve forgotten replies
bathrooms
like the back of a barn
latches
and hooks and unexpected piercings
>tight
and tighter thru the night
and the
flag was still there....
o save
us you scholar bound hero
carrying
letters from the headmaster
jesuit
fucking liar how I hate you
corrupting
the latch
and the
branch
and the
snake skin you crawled in on
despise
and mourn
kick
and denounce
hate
mother fucker
ah,
joyce be with me
cody
unbroken and and and
closing
the gates with carrots
damning
the works with
unheard
of insights
no no
<<toss
and tumble>>
good
morning, good night
><<Douglas>>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 13:24:58 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: For Bentz: Measures, Jazz Giants, Obituaries, etc.
In-Reply-To: <UPMAIL14.199707062131350398@msn.com>
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On Sun,
6 Jul 1997, Sherri wrote:
>
what's happened to all that heady jazz of the 40's to early 60's... is it
>
being stomped out by the almighty $$ catering to the masses, or is it just
>
barely there because social/cultural conditions have changed?
There's
lots of great shit out there -- as wild as that heady 40s-60s jazz,
just as
great but different too. I don't think we've entered a time where
great
music is gone; if anything there's more great music out now than ever
before
-- certainly more than I could ever hear in one lifetime ("you'll
never
hear it all," <http://dsl.org/m/doc/rev/>). Music constantly changes
or else
it would all be the same thing, an infinite repeat copy of itself --
completely
sterile & boring. Which is where I think "jazz copy" music comes
from --
an original work (such as early wild jazz) is recognized and the
patterns
simply copied and further homogenized, turning into that crap we
know.
So where it's at right now is definitely _not_ "jazz," just as modern
wild
writing isn't the Beat Generation anymore; but some great music's out
there
nonetheless and if you like old jazz I'd recommend you run out and buy
some
Tortoise LPs, especially _Millions Now Living Will Never Die_ and the
first
self-titled record. Also search out these bands: Directions in Music,
the Sea
& Cake, and the impossible to find "free jazz" stuff that
Thurston
Moore's
in love with. Do a search for "free jazz" on altavista to get a list
of
those records.
Michael
Stutz
stutz@dsl.org
http://dsl.org/m/
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:47:09 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: Wilhelm Reich
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Sherri
writ:
><<things
in JK's own life that created his personal terrors. i don't
>advocate
>becoming
an alcholic in order to write, but who's to say that that writing is
>any
less real than someone who is a near-Boddhisatva? just a different
state...
all is One, One is all.>>
because
there is the down side, Sherri. pot,
lsd, mushrooms, alcohol,
cigarettes,
wine coolers, bubble gum, <<breathing>> <<prayer>>
<<fucking>> ah, each has it's down side. personally, I prefer blood
sugar. the best of highs. a good BS buzz will bring you up gradually,
give
you peak exercise of body and mind, good breathing, then a slight
recline
and the gradual falling out to sleep.
there
might be a one, a one end point. a
concerted force of chi, semen,
and
watered down by products of the mind, but no, well, yes, <<maybe>>
can you
sustain? can you interact? can you bring back the key from
your
dreams? was driving back from Lala
this Sunday evening. couldn't
even
bear to turn on the radio. nor the tape
player. a struggle even
to
admit a few hummed bars into my company.
a truly centered feeling.
chi-i-kerouac
hannah hoch dorris lessing. bought
"on the road" and
"memoirs
of a survivor" (doris lessing) as gifts for my lala lover.
feel
like I'm beginning to lead a double life.
a secret life. another
life. yes
<<thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, yes, oh yes,
yes, oh
yes, oh oh, hmmmmm [[eyes wide open, ah, exhale
>truly
the start of another snake skin long moan and die year.
>
>>
paix,
>>
sherri
>
>Douglas <<kick out the clowns -- MC5>>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:46:38 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Cody and visions
David,
i'm not
skimming it, but am reading it by sinking in, if you will. i try to
let the
imagery and atmosphere wash over and surround me, swallow me up as
much as
possible, so i can try to be JK or at least as close to his head as
possible. at any rate, i'm struck the same way... he
has found a way to let
his
subconcious come to the fore while allowing what i refer to as the
objective
observer to continue to function at it's fullest - no mean feat.
the
beauty of it is that it allows him to use images/words to describe what
might
otherwise be nearly formless, nameless...
a vague sense of something...
in such
a way that my own subconcious can respond, get inside it and relate it
to some
of my own vision/remembering times, giving me more understanding.
(btw,
Aion has, somewhat unfortunately, been tabled in favor of Cody, The
Rememberer
and reference to Ulysses. i intend to
return to it during or after
what i
hope will be a group read of OTR for its anniversary.)
the
other thing that strikes me particularly in part 1 is JK's freedom and
facility
of mind. he truly is raw, balls on, out
there, no barriers, no
limits,
brave enough to follow his own uncharted paths... perhaps that is
what
makes this book so overwhelmingly enticing and amazing: the daring to go
completely
into the unknown recesses of mind/life...
how many of us really go
that
far? i, for one, find that it makes me
want to be braver, closer to the
edge
than i already am...
well
i'm beginning to ramble, so i'll shut up now.
paix,
sherri
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 18:46:53 -0700
Reply-To: Jens Koch <jenskoch@POST1.TELE.DK>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jens Koch
<jenskoch@POST1.TELE.DK>
Subject: So happy to be joining the reading of
Cody
Comments:
cc: kpsnej@hotmail.com
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Hi
I'm
Jens from Denmark, and after at first asking a couple of questions, and then
just
reading
this quite extensive listserv for about a month, I am now very happy to
come
forward
and introduce myself by way of saying how happy I was to see the list's
"joint"
reading
of VOC. I have had this book for about 15 years, and while I have never
actually
read
the whole thing, that doesn't mean that I haven't started a few times...
I enjoy
your comments, and perhaps I'll make some of my own eventually.
I might
make some on Kicks Joy Darkness as well - I received this CD a few days
ago -
it's a
little hard to come by in this part of the world. So far I enjoy it
immensely,
although
I tend to listen only, I haven't really read the small print lyrics
yet. I like
the
variety of the participants; Juliana
Hatfield's take on "Silly Goofball
Pomes" is
great
fun, while Maggie Estep really rocks. Would Jack Kerouac have been a
rock'n'roller
? Probably not, but the music works. The performances of the old
brigade:
Ginsberg,
Thompson, Hunter, Ferlinghetti, and I suppose Smith, Strummer and
Andersen,
are
much as one would expect, Burroughs never ceases to impress. Matt Dillon's
"reading"
is an
unexpected surprise, I didn't enjoy his recent performance as a Brian
Wilson-clone
in
Grace of My Heart, but this adds volumes to his character.
I am a
teacher BTW, though out of a job at the moment, and have been using
sections of
HOWL,
OTR, DB and Interzone, as well as poems by Corso, McCLure and Snyder, and
with
quite
some "success". I am hoping to publish material on the beats soon; in
fact
I
already
have, and it's online:
http://www.sektornet.dk/gym/en/anglowww/kerouac.htm - but
it's in
Danish, of course ! The illustration used is unashamedly robbed from
Levi
Asher's
page.
The
amount of mail posted is impressive, I just came back from holiday a few
days ago; I
still
haven't caught up on all the posts, but now I have made one lengthy post
of my
own,
and I haven't even finished yet, because I would like to acquaint you with
poet Don
Paterson
who writes about a dog-eared Kerouac in his recently published God's
Gift to
Women(Faber
and Faber, 1997):
from
1001 Nights: The Early Years
(Quote:)
The male muse is paid in silences. Shahrazad could not have been bought
for
less
than minor Auschwitz
Erszebet
Szanto
Dawn,
and I woke up grieving for my arm
long
dead below the little drunken carcass
still
shut in her drunk dream. In mine, I recall,
I was
fixing a stamp in a savings-book, half-full
of the
same heavenly profile, a vast harem
of
sisters, each one day younger than the last...
Heaven,
to bed the same new wife each night!
And I
try; but morning always brings her back
changed,
although I recognize the room:
my
puddled suit, her dog-eared Kerouac,
the
snot-stream of a knotted Fetherlite
draped
on the wineglass. I killed the alarm,
then
took her head off with the kitchen knife
and no
more malice than I might a rose
for my
daily buttonhole. One hand, like a leaf,
still
flutters in half-hearted valediction.
I am
presently facing the wall, nose-to-nose
with Keanu
Reeves. It is a sad reflection.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 11:32:06 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: "The Playful Poets"
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<<ah,
apple pie>>
>William
H. Rose, III writ The Playful Poets:
<<
>"The
fastest
>man
alive" some say when pryed, others say he lived the way he died.
>>
...."lived
the way he died" yes. yes.
can't stop saying yes. must
keep
running. but I've stopped haven't
I. no.
still running. nyet.
59 more
beat-list posts to dig thru, then my morning prayer. a few deep
thoughts,
and onto Ulysses and VOC if work prevails.
<<sex>>
Liked
your approach, William H. Rose, III.
you bring the complete beat.
bottom of my screen shows your "Tom
Waits impatiently I've found for
pasties,
g-strings, beer and blue" line.
Hm. step right up and speak
into
the mic, it's karaoke night::
"stuck
in a cafe when you've live too long
oh, oh,
oh,
you're
a rock n roll suicide
you're
not alone
looking
at yourself and you're too unfair
oh, all
tangled up
don't
know who you are or where've you been"
-- david bowie from ziggy stardust
"don't
get strung out
by the
way I look
by
night I'm one hell of a
[[scholar]] har har
I'm just
a sweet transvestite
from
transexual
transelvania
a a ah ha"
-- tim curry as dr. frankenfurter in
"rocky horror"
>[....] bye bye sweet transbeat-i-chi-i <<Douglas>>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:42:24 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Vote For FERNANDA PIVANO SENATRICE A
VITA.
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Al
Presidente della
Repubblica Italiana
on.
Oscar Luigi Scalfaro.
"Egregio
Presidente,
visto
l'articolo 59 della Costituzione della Repubblica
italiana
vogliamo proporLe di prendere in considerazione
la
nomina di senatrice a vita di Fernanda Pivano.
Fernanda
Pivano, che compie quest'anno ottanta anni, ha
dedicato
la vita alla cultura e con il suo impegno di
scrittrice
e traduttrice ha contribuito a far conoscere
la
cultura e la letteratura americana, a valorizzare
autori
altrimenti sconosciuti in Italia ed a qualificare
la
cultura italiana in America. Considerata in tutto il
mondo
un simbolo della cultura italiana, riteniamo sia
doveroso
riconoscerle questi altissimi meriti che hanno
illustrato
la nostra Patria".
Chi
volesse sottoscrivere questo appello aggiungendo il
proprio
nome puo' indirizzare a:
(address)
Gaia Maschi
via di Propaganda 16
00187 ROMA
ITALIA
(text)
"
FERNANDA PIVANO E' UNA GRANDE
ITALIANA,
SIGNOR PRESIDENTE
"
(end
text)
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
*
Allen
Ginsberg, The Hydrogen Jukebox
Traduzione
di Fernanda Pivano (1968)
"Jukebox
all'idrogeno",
Jack
Kerouac, On the Road,
Traduzione
di Fernanda Pivano (1959)
"Sulla
Strada"
*
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 14:35:40 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Cody, Part III
Comments:
To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
In-Reply-To: <33C083C5.1933@together.net>
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On Sun,
6 Jul 1997, Diane Carter wrote:
> Hi
everyone. Am twenty or so pages into
taped conversation, and in spite
> of
Ginsberg's comments on the intent of this part, I am incredibly bored
>
and yes, this is tedius going, the total disconnection of thought when
>
one is high.
[snip]
>
Makes me want to go back and read parts I & II again, if only to find a
>
coherent word. Most of it is complete
dribble and not being able to
>
recall anything at all.
Good to
hear someone say this. VOC is one of my favorite novels, maybe my
favorite
Kerouac work (surely one of his most ambitious, no?), but upon my
first
read found it incredibly boring and hard to go through at points. I
had to
think, What makes this so great? How the hell did he get this
[eventually]
published? Who the hell reads this?
I loved
his evocative descriptions, mastery of inner thought-voice and
ability
to get it on paper -- just long thoughts for hours nonstop,
transcribed,
open, honest, done just to do. But would I have read it and
spent
the time with it if it was written by Joe Blow? I think a lot of my
patience
in dealing with this work was due to my knowledge of JK, to his
reputation.
I agree with whoever said OTR was like an outline or summary of
what
would be expressed in total detail in VOC ... also OTR was his biggest
commercial
success; it's like OTR had to come first in terms of being
published
because it's readable, it presents the standard plot and structure
-- then
after fame and infamy he was free to have looser, more "free-form"
or
experimental works such as VOC published.
OTR was
the book that "inspired a generation" or whatever it says on my old
sunset
paperback copy. It did this a mere what, 5 years after it was written?
VOC, on
the other hand...
Something
else about these guys that I just now for the first time suspect
might
apply to VOC: my wife doesn't care for Ginsberg's homoerotic poetry,
citing
much of his "i want to suck a cock / your dick as hard as a rock"
brand
of verse as the work of an extremely arrogant man ("You'd _have_ to be
arrogant
to put that stuff on a page and call it poetry! _I_ could write
poetry
like that," she'd say, and come up with her own Ginsberg-style poem
that
would rival his). While Ginsberg's life is now looked at as one of
"candor"
-- that also being applied to his poetry, the effect of which did a
Good
Thing for modern poetry etc., it has a flip side, as it seems to have
inspired
a generation or three of terrible pseudo-beatnik "poets" that
nobody
cares about except their pseudo-beatnik friends. Again, Joe Blow
writes
a poem befitting his name: "i want to suck a cock." Nobody cares, but
Ginsberg
does it and everybody buys the book. Something like VOC couldn't
have
been written by just anyone, could it? And if someone did, would they
be able
to get it published (and get people to _read_ it) or would they need
20
years and the help of a marketing agent?
Michael
Stutz
stutz@dsl.org
http://dsl.org/m/
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 11:48:26 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: "The Playful Poets"
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yep, he
beat it pretty hard. the art of
living. hard up my lily white
ass. ompholos deep brother, Douglas. a tower of thought. cowering
under
the pressure. Maori tribal land skinned
locks. this daylight.
thoughts
are still thoughts. don't betray me,
all honesty. <<god,
having
problems breathing a single sentence out completly>>
for
silence, Douglas [[and the dark chamber
pots]]
"the
map is not the territory"
babu@electriciti.com
(Alfred Korzybski) www.electriciti.com/babu/
>----------
>From: James Stauffer[SMTP:stauffer@PACBELL.NET]
>Sent: Sunday, July 06, 1997 5:14 PM
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Subject: Re: "The Playful Poets"
>
>Someone
certainly didn't forget any of his perscriptions this morning.
>I
take it art is pretty grand stuff.
>
>William
H. Rose, III wrote:
>>
>>
The Playful Poets
>>
by William H. Rose, III
>>
>>
Kerouac ruck-sack back-pack Buddha-Jack beat-back run-on James Joyce
>>first-choice
>>
odd-voice free-fall flowing, you know, come on. (In cosmic slums Jack wrote
>>the
bums
>>
and beat upon his clever-kicked and hobo drums in search of wide-eyed
>>lovers
who
>>
would hum.) On the road his story told in non-stop verse so nudely bold.
>>Kicks
and
>>
chicks and movin' on; swimmin' in women and carryin' on. Kerouac road-knack
>>
Dharma-pack mystic poet of our past. . . .
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 14:57:08 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: Fwd: For Bentz: Measures, Jazz Giants,
Obituaries, etc.
---------------------
Forwarded
message:
Subj: Re: For Bentz: Measures, Jazz Giants,
Obituaries, etc.
Date: 97-07-07 14:56:44 EDT
From: Marioka7
To: stutz@dsl.org
In a
message dated 97-07-07 14:52:33 EDT, you write:
<<
> what's happened to all that heady jazz
of the 40's to early 60's... is it
> being stomped out by the almighty $$
catering to the masses, or is it just
> barely there because social/cultural
conditions have changed?
There's lots of great shit out there -- as
wild as that heady 40s-60s jazz,
just as great but different too. >>
I
agree, and also many hiphop bands use jazz loops, which one could say is a
combo
of Jazz (from beat era) and william burroughs' cut-up method (from beat
era),
working together to create something new.
-maya
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 12:05:36 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: Jazz-poetics
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JN
writ:
>>
Please brace yourself,
trying
><<As
well, certain poems of mine i view as purely jazz pieces - not with
>jazz
themes, but jazz itself - the long line, although having a rhythm
>implied,
is written without the rhythm being visual, giving the reader
>freedom
to interpret the rhythm, similar to Coltrane's rendition of the
>traditional
'Greensleeves', or any artist performing a cover piece =
>which
means, the reader himself is a creator . . . as well, certain word
>combinations
are repeated throughout a poem, similar to a repeated riff,
implying
similar rhythm for those syllables = notes . . .>>
along
with the gift "on the road" and VOC, I bought a nice used copy of
Matisse's
"Jazz" series. a medium sized
art book documenting his
>beautiful
end of life art pieces.
>
<<
> utopia where did this
hail from? where does it go? does the
man
>at
the
> corner hold the knife of redemption?
>>>
don't
have the patience to concentrate right now.
sorry for all those
reading
this. but did spend a good couple of
hours seeing the Hannah
Hoch
photomontage exhibt at the LACMA this weekend.
highly recommend
for all
those searching for a strong woman in their life. One of her
more
famous works, if not her defining moment, is the piece "cut with
the
kitchen knife something something thru the last days of the weimer
republic
beer belly something something" (yes, the complete title --
something
like that).
the
sword of damacles? the stinging fingers
of fate? and No, not if
you
live there. the man gives you a discount
and let's you thru the
door
for free. but there's some test or
something like that, which you
have to
pass first. firewalking, ass-kissing,
or something like that.
Haven't
been paying enough attention recently.
Hopefully the academics
can
pick up the pace and provide better directions.
>>
JN
Douglas
<<oughta be at home sleeping>>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:14:49 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Fwd: For Bentz: Measures, Jazz
Giants, Obituaries, etc.
Comments:
To: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
In-Reply-To: <970707145641_357594274@emout07.mail.aol.com>
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On Mon,
7 Jul 1997, Maya Gorton wrote:
> I
agree, and also many hiphop bands use jazz loops, which one could say is a
>
combo of Jazz (from beat era) and william burroughs' cut-up method (from beat
>
era), working together to create something new.
Yeah,
right on -- as well as the use of feedback & noise in many bands to
produce
a "droney" effect and/or extend the sound spectrum used in the song.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 12:23:50 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Cody, Part III
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You
raise the issue that has been troubling me through Part 1 and at
least
half of part 2. If I didn't bring my
already developed ideas
about
Jack and Neal to this book would I read it?
So far for me the
book
fails badly in this regard. Without all
this outside stuff we
bring
from the other books and bios and our own knowledge of these
people
I am not at all sure the book works.
Part One is certainly an
amazing
display of memory but we are given little reason as to why to
care
about these particular memories. I
think the point you raise about
AG's
more ephemeral stuff is also very valid.
A lot of Beat stuff falls
victim
to relying on already developed notions
of what is hip. Sort of
preaching
to the choir. JK's best stuff stands on
it's own. This one,
I am
not at all sure yet.
James
Stauffer
Michael
Stutz wrote:
>
had to think, What makes this so great? How the hell did he get this
>
[eventually] published? Who the hell reads this?
>
> I
loved his evocative descriptions, mastery of inner thought-voice and
>
ability to get it on paper -- just long thoughts for hours nonstop,
>
transcribed, open, honest, done just to do. But would I have read it and
>
spent the time with it if it was written by Joe Blow?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 12:35:51 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: god wants to know
MIME-Version:
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Ok, I'm
in a cranky mood. <<sorry>>
just
got another posting from god saying that I should backchannel all
of my
postings. that I should join a
"wanna be beat" list. He's
sick
and
tired of hearing all my shit.
<<yes, I am cranky, MC, I blame this
on
you!! :-)>>
so,
inquiring minds wanna know: Is god
right?
my
thoughts on the matter, quoting from the great poly sterene of the
band
X-ray Specs ("o bondage, up yours"):
some people think little girls should
be seen and not heard
but I say, o bondage, up yours [one, two, three, four]
However,
except that I would say, more pointedly with civility,
some snails think some poets should be
listed but not heard
screw this argument, let's take VOC
for dessert
cheers,
Douglas <<with 47 more posts to
filter before VOC beginning>>
"the
map is not the territory"
babu@electriciti.com
(Alfred Korzybski) www.electriciti.com/babu/
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 14:57:35 -0500
Reply-To: thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jennifer Thompson
<thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU>
Subject: Re: ok, perhaps (was power of the poet)
Comments:
To: Bruce Hartman <bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>
In-Reply-To: <199706271459.KAA24385@everest>
Mime-Version:
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On Fri,
27 Jun 1997, Bruce Hartman wrote:
>
Beat Friends,
>
> I realize I haven't been paying too
much attention to this thread, but
>
when I see statements like:
>
>
> > Science has already been
proven false. God before that. Is poetry
>
> >next?
>
>
made, I have to ask for some clarification. . . Please, someone enlighten
>
me, how is it possible to disprove science?
What evidence is there to
>
support that statement? And how is it
possible to prove God false (or real
>
for that matter), if you know something the rest of us don't, please share.
> .
.
>
>
Bruce
>
bwhartmanjr@iname.com
>
http://www.geocities.com/~tranestation
>
Without
wanting to put words, or ideas for that matter, into the original
author's
"mouth," I assume that he or she was referring to Nietsche's
"God
is
dead."
Jenn
Thompson
I'm not
sure about the science referrence, however.
Maybe from Poe?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:07:54 -0500
Reply-To: thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jennifer Thompson
<thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU>
Subject: Re: God
Comments:
To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
In-Reply-To: <UPMAIL14.199706280502450033@msn.com>
Mime-Version:
1.0
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On Sat,
28 Jun 1997, Sherri wrote:
>
Why the hell does everyone seem to need to have god be a human being with
>
magical powers... aren't we capable of expanding our imaginations/awareness a
>
little beyond our own puny little selves?
>
>
Ciao,
>
Sherri
>
i
couldn't agree more. i've often said as
much to friends and collegues.
to me,
God isn't corporeal. I don't picture
God as corporeal. in fact,
to me,
it's impossible to picture God at all.
The fact that we even
attempt
to name God is puzzling. God is a mind
more powerful than we
can
even begin to conceive. Maybe.
Jenn Thompson
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:15:57 -0500
Reply-To: thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jennifer Thompson
<thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Summer Reading Project
Comments:
To: James Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
In-Reply-To: <33B529AA.35C6@pacbell.net>
Mime-Version:
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On Sat,
28 Jun 1997, James Stauffer wrote:
>
Dear Beetles
>
>
Does anyone have any suggestions for reading projects that might help
>
restore some minimal level of Beat focus to the list before it
>
completely evaporates into the dissapearing ozone layer with more and
>
more Kozmic Kuestions like Poesey and Godliness? Beginning to sound like
>
what passes for intellectual discussion in a freshman dorm.
>
>
Dr. Sax vs. Mocassins? A WSB thing like
Western Lands?
>
> We
did a thing on "Wichita Vortex Sutra" that was good.
>
>
HELP!!
>
> We
need to find a way to keep this thing interesting without someone
>
dying.
>
> J.
Stauffer
>
well,
this may not be an original suggestion, but here goes:
what
about looking at E.A. Poe in comparison to Kerouac. I'm reading
Poe
again for a class now, and once read that he (Poe) was a slight
influence
on Kerouac. I can see it. Poe's confessional elements. Also,
his
prose reads like poetry (or one could term it "prosody").
i
apologize if this suggestion sounds juvenile (freshman dorm-like), but
it's
just a thought.
Jenn
Thompson
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:20:54 -0500
Reply-To: "William H. Rose, III" <schpill@EXECPC.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "William H. Rose, III"
<schpill@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: "Beat Streets"
Comments:
cc: tpadgett@sbuniv.edu
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Beat
Streets
by
William H. Rose, III
July
3-6, 1997
(for
Al, Bill, Jack, and Neal
and all
the other beaten rogues of the third vision)
Gesticulating
tongue
The
open vision mouth
Warped
muse
In a
daydreamed location
Incense,
jasmine and roses
Curling
up my head
Chair-scattered
haphazard clothes
You and
I thus bookmarked
And
scattered to the poems
Made
real.
But he
explained
His
Bostaon-Harvard exploits
Not as
an island
But as
a sea of phrases
And I
thought of my own place
Street-wise.
I have
no poetry readings to miss
Except,
of course,
When I
sit down to beat-read.
I do
not understand
The
Buddha "om"
And
have no time for dissertations
Which I
waste intermittently.
No S.F.
City Lights this
Nor
dome-vaulted Imax rides
Nor
tome-tomb renaissanced in books
But
downtowned blue-waved
And
lake-front driven.
I
sensed this jazzed out
Poet
and I
Are not
so separate
He
envisions his world
And
tempts the Muse
As I
impale her passionately
On
Hamlet's sword and poison.
Speak
beat
Plaudits
on far and high
And
rapid innocuous accolades
For all
the writers readers.
Have
you heard the voice of reason?
Are
angels coming back now?
A
reunion of sorts?
Automatic
writing
In beat
technology
Beat
pornography
For
Kerouac's scattered kicks
In
Ginsbergesque howls trebled
And
Neal's crazy visions cut-up.
Naked
lunched and injected
Non-menthol
heroin
Roach
powder Interzone runaway routine
At the
foot of release.
Where
does the paranoia of words begin
And the
addiction end?
Oh, and
Bill.....
They're still watching you!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 13:56:54 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: God
MIME-Version:
1.0
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Jennifer
writ:
><<i
couldn't agree more. i've often said as
much to friends and collegues.
>to
me, God isn't corporeal. I don't
picture God as corporeal. in fact,
>to
me, it's impossible to picture God at all.
The fact that we even
>attempt
to name God is puzzling. God is a mind
more powerful than we
can
even begin to conceive. Maybe.>>
Well, I
keep trying to get off this thread.
God, however, has my name
and
number. Keeps dragging me back to a
certain reality. <<and I thank
him,
sincerely>> that process be
damned, we are expected to live and
die by
the reality of our posts. our
actions. and in that manner, no,
god is
corporeal. He is quite real and if need
by, I can direct you
towards
him.
However,
I have a sneaky suspicion that my God is not yours. or yours.
and
yours. and mine.
>
>>
Jenn Thompson
Douglas
<<eating>>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:10:47 UT
Reply-To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Cody, Part III
while i
can see both your points, i think Cody can stand on its own, just as
Ulysses
did... once one realizes what's being
done, it's amazing writing,
even
without the benefit of "who" the author is. granted, though, the knowing
does
increase it's understanding and depth for the reader. maybe it all comes
down to
how one reads it? (it's almost like
reading poetry to me.)
hhhmmmmm...
a
bigger question is begged, though. does
it have to stand on its own?
perhaps
it could be viewed as part of a
trilogy...OTR, VOC, VOG. dunno, just
speculating
here...
ciao,
sherri
----------
From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
James Stauffer
Sent: Monday, July 07, 1997 12:23 PM
To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: Cody, Part III
You
raise the issue that has been troubling me through Part 1 and at
least
half of part 2. If I didn't bring my
already developed ideas
about
Jack and Neal to this book would I read it?
So far for me the
book
fails badly in this regard. Without all
this outside stuff we
bring
from the other books and bios and our own knowledge of these
people
I am not at all sure the book works.
Part One is certainly an
amazing
display of memory but we are given little reason as to why to
care
about these particular memories. I
think the point you raise about
AG's
more ephemeral stuff is also very valid.
A lot of Beat stuff falls
victim
to relying on already developed notions
of what is hip. Sort of
preaching
to the choir. JK's best stuff stands on
it's own. This one,
I am
not at all sure yet.
James
Stauffer
Michael
Stutz wrote:
>
had to think, What makes this so great? How the hell did he get this
>
[eventually] published? Who the hell reads this?
>
> I
loved his evocative descriptions, mastery of inner thought-voice and
>
ability to get it on paper -- just long thoughts for hours nonstop,
>
transcribed, open, honest, done just to do. But would I have read it and
>
spent the time with it if it was written by Joe Blow?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:30:48 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Cody, Part III
In-Reply-To: <UPMAIL14.199707072113520176@msn.com>
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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On Mon,
7 Jul 1997, Sherri spoke of VOC:
>
(it's almost like reading poetry to me.)
Yeah,
VERY much so. It's like a hybrid between poetry and prose -- or is all
good
lit like this? Hmm... [thinking out loud] do the best lit works (prose)
read
like poetry anyway?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 23:01:57 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Caro diario.
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
dear
diary,
i today
have read a very poetic phrase in "On the Road":
"climbing
trees to get into attics of buddies
where
he spent days
reading or hiding
from
the law" written by jack keroauc depicting the life
of NEAL
CASSADY, reading or hiding
very poetic
reading or hiding
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:06:29 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cody, Part III
Comments:
To: Sherri <love_singing@MSN.COM>
Mime-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I tend
to agree with Sherri and also see the points of the others.
Joyce
is a good analogy. Who would read
Ulysses or Finnegans Wake? Answer:
a lot
of people.
I think
it does need to be seen as part of Kerouac's oeurve. Yet it can
stand
alone, but like Ulyssess and Finnegans wake was not meant to only
stand
alone.
It
tries to do more than only tell a story but also to capture an essence
(many
essences) as well.
It is
also a great catalog.
I don't
have a copy of the book anymore. You
guys've inspired me to hit the
library
after work.
At
08:10 PM 7/7/97 UT, Sherri wrote:
>while
i can see both your points, i think Cody can stand on its own, just as
>Ulysses
did... once one realizes what's being
done, it's amazing writing,
>even
without the benefit of "who" the author is. granted, though, the knowing
>does
increase it's understanding and depth for the reader. maybe it all comes
>down
to how one reads it? (it's almost like
reading poetry to me.)
>hhhmmmmm...
>
>a
bigger question is begged, though. does
it have to stand on its own?
>perhaps
it could be viewed as part of a
trilogy...OTR, VOC, VOG. dunno, just
>speculating
here...
>
>ciao,
>sherri
>
>----------
>From: BEAT-L: Beat Generation List on behalf of
James Stauffer
>Sent: Monday, July 07, 1997 12:23 PM
>To: BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
>Subject: Re: Cody, Part III
>
>You
raise the issue that has been troubling me through Part 1 and at
>least
half of part 2. If I didn't bring my
already developed ideas
>about
Jack and Neal to this book would I read it?
So far for me the
>book
fails badly in this regard. Without all
this outside stuff we
>bring
from the other books and bios and our own knowledge of these
>people
I am not at all sure the book works.
Part One is certainly an
>amazing
display of memory but we are given little reason as to why to
>care
about these particular memories. I
think the point you raise about
>AG's
more ephemeral stuff is also very valid.
A lot of Beat stuff falls
>victim
to relying on already developed notions
of what is hip. Sort of
>preaching
to the choir. JK's best stuff stands on
it's own. This one,
>I
am not at all sure yet.
>
>James
Stauffer
>
>Michael
Stutz wrote:
>
>>
had to think, What makes this so great? How the hell did he get this
>>
[eventually] published? Who the hell reads this?
>>
>>
I loved his evocative descriptions, mastery of inner thought-voice and
>>
ability to get it on paper -- just long thoughts for hours nonstop,
>>
transcribed, open, honest, done just to do. But would I have read it and
>>
spent the time with it if it was written by Joe Blow?
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 18:09:41 -0400
Reply-To: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sara Feustle
<sfeustl@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re: God
Comments:
To: "Penn, Douglas, K" <dkpenn@OEES.COM>
In-Reply-To:
<c=US%a=_%p=OEES%l=SD-MAIL-970707205654Z-279@sd-mail.sd.oee s.com>
MIME-version:
1.0
Content-type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At
01:56 PM 7/7/97 -0700, Penn, Douglas, K wrote:
>Jennifer
writ:
>
>><<i
couldn't agree more. i've often said as
much to friends and collegues.
>>to
me, God isn't corporeal. I don't
picture God as corporeal. in fact,
>>to
me, it's impossible to picture God at all.
The fact that we even
>>attempt
to name God is puzzling. God is a mind
more powerful than we
>can
even begin to conceive. Maybe.>>
>
>Well,
I keep trying to get off this thread.
God, however, has my name
>and
number. Keeps dragging me back to a
certain reality. <<and I thank
>him,
sincerely>> that process be
damned, we are expected to live and
>die
by the reality of our posts. our
actions. and in that manner, no,
>god
is corporeal. He is quite real and if
need by, I can direct you
>towards
him.
>
>However,
I have a sneaky suspicion that my God is not yours. or yours.
>and
yours. and mine.
>>
>>>
Jenn Thompson
>
>Douglas
<<eating>>
There is no "God." Case
closed. --Sara
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:25:26 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: God
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Sara
Feustle wrote:
>
> At
01:56 PM 7/7/97 -0700, Penn, Douglas, K wrote:
>
>Jennifer writ:
>
>
>
>><<i couldn't agree more.
i've often said as much to friends and collegues.
>
>>to me, God isn't corporeal. I
don't picture God as corporeal. in
fact,
>
>>to me, it's impossible to picture God at all. The fact that we even
>
>>attempt to name God is puzzling.
God is a mind more powerful than we
>
>can even begin to conceive.
Maybe.>>
>
>
>
>Well, I keep trying to get off this thread. God, however, has my name
>
>and number. Keeps dragging me back
to a certain reality. <<and I
thank
>
>him, sincerely>> that process
be damned, we are expected to live and
>
>die by the reality of our posts.
our actions. and in that manner,
no,
>
>god is corporeal. He is quite real
and if need by, I can direct you
>
>towards him.
>
>
>
>However, I have a sneaky suspicion that my God is not yours. or yours.
>
>and yours. and mine.
>
>>
>
>>> Jenn Thompson
>
>
>
>Douglas <<eating>>
>
> There is no "God." Case
closed. --Sara
>
>
The
Committee will seriously consider all of your beliefs and
disbeliefs.
sincerely,
The
Committee.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:50:15 -0700
Reply-To: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Penn, Douglas, K"
<dkpenn@OEES.COM>
Subject: Re: JK tribute: kicks joy darkness
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
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Marie
writ:
><<g'nightadrien!(it's
now morning on east coast) when you listen again,
>listen
as carefully to michael stipe's "our gang" which has lodged in my
>head
and won't get out. how carefully he enuciates (a miracle, for those
>who
listened to REM a few years back), but
also how the music adds to the
little
scene and to me reflects back to dr sax bedroom imagination.>>
regarding
Stipes annunciation, I liked how at the end, he starts to fade
away. It becomes hard to hear him as if if if the
dream is ending and a
decision
has come nigh. Hell or Heaven
awaits?! Surely this is
blurring
and fading is intentional, yes?
>>
mc
Douglas
<<cruel, gruel, cog>>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 19:04:30 -0400
Reply-To: Tread37@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jenn Fedor <Tread37@AOL.COM>
Subject: greeting from jenn - disregard crap at
beginning(mailing error!:))
---------------------
Forwarded
message:
From: MAILER-DAEMON@aol.com (Mail Delivery
Subsystem)
To: Tread37@aol.com
Date:
97-07-07 03:10:37 EDT
The
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Mon, 7 Jul 1997 01:41:42 -0400 (EDT)
Date:
Mon, 7 Jul 1997 01:41:42 -0400 (EDT)
From:
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To:
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Subject:
greeting from Jenn
hello
all involved with this mailing list. i
just became a member two days
ago and
am thrilled at all of the insightful and intelligent mail i have
received. i would really like to become an active
member of this group, but
i am a
little hazy on how exactly i can participate.
i guess i'll just have
to jump
into the middle and hope i can swim. i
have to confess that, yes, i
am
merely a college student and have very recently discovered the wonders of
beat
writing. but it was love at first sight
i must say, and i am trying to
suck up
as much info. as i can. i am currently
reading OTR and JK letters
(1940-1956). i also have been reading as much AG and JK
poetry as i can get
my
hands on. The First Third and Visions
of Cody are next on my list. all i
am
saying now is that i apologize if i ask stupid and naiive questions, but
soon i
will fall into the swing of things, so bare with me!!:)
my
first two offers for discussion may seem a lttle graphic and severe, but
their
raw innocence and lust and love realy struck me: AG's Many Loves and
Please
Master (1968). Many Loves really
brought out for me the intense love
that AG
possessed for NC and how freely this
love made him a sort of slave
to it
and in turn to Neal. But the innocence
and admiration that came with
the
experience is so well defined by the newness and apprehension depicted as
they begin
this exploration. Please Master
accomplishes this with a
different,
yet equally effective approach. the
raw, graphic nature of the
piece
shows the extent to how allen was a slave to this passion, and the
cycle
of it is thoroughly illustrated through the repetition. yet the love he
felt
for neal is so clear through his blind obedience and willingness to
submit
to neal's (as well as his) wishes, as unacceptable as they might seem.
he treats it as a priviledge to be able to
share this intimacy, however
purely
lustful and physical the graphic language might initially convey.
signing
off for now,
jenn
(JF)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 19:32:24 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: Fwd: more dreams
---------------------
Forwarded
message:
Subj: Re: more dreams
Date: 97-07-07 19:32:06 EDT
From: Marioka7
To: pelliott@sunflower.com
In a
message dated 97-07-07 17:07:59 EDT, you write:
<<
Maya, i fail to understand the beat
connection. Is this related or in
reference to a book or something.
respectfully
patricia >>
Patricia:
this is something I've been wondering about, just thought I'd use
your
comment as a jumping-off point to ask the list in general.
i'm afraid there is no direct beat
reference/connection. You didn't
like
it? Sorry.
If you
want i could say that i was exploring the beat method of pulling
together
the conscious and unconsious. And the
cut-up method of narrative
(yes,
cut-up can be used with narrative, not only words) and of images,
started
by burroughs and brion gysin. In fact,
dreams are often dreamt in
cut-up,
where images/thoughts/feelings are juxtaposed and associated in a
seemingly
'disorderly' manner because they make a different kind of sense
than
when you're awake.
In general, I try to experiment with words
on this list, and I try to
do so
in a way that reflects the depth of the influence the beats have had on
me. If this is not an acceptable thing to do on
this list, please let me
know
and i will cease doing so.
Is this list only for discussing the
beats' persons and writings or
also
for exploring their ideas, and, perhaps, applying them to other, new and
different,
things?
Perhaps those of us who are serious
writers/artists/whatevers could
start a
new list in which we discuss beat theory in relation to our own work.
Or we could form two sides on beat-l,
the Artists vs.
the Critics
please
let me know if i should take my dreams/poems/etc elsewhere or at least
where I
should shove them.
hasta
la vista,
maya
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 16:49:48 -0400
Reply-To: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MATT HANNAN
<MATT.HANNAN@OTC.USOC.CCHUB.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: God
Comments:
To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Mime-Version:
1.0
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Sara
Feustle and david rhaesa wrote (respectively):
> There is no "God." Case
closed. --Sara
>The
Committee will seriously consider all of your beliefs and
>disbeliefs.
You mean god is not the pooh-bear? My daughter and I are greatly
confused and awaiting the Committee's
decision before burning the
hundred acre woods and skunking out the
heretics; wondering how roast
piglet would go with donkey giblets.
matt
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:04:50 -0400
Reply-To: Marioka7@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>
Subject: opium=buddha of the masses
i once
heard the "om" of the universe, tripping on 3 hits of
bart-simpson-stamped
acid in New York city. it was under a
tree in
Riverside
Park, around 113th street. I mean, that
wasn't the SOURCE or
anything,
that's just where it came to me.
I felt
like He (Buddha) was calling me and asking me to come. I was
suspicious
(wouldn't you?) and declined, but only after seriously considering
it. I
mean it's not the kind of opportunity one gets every day, to become a
boddhisatva. I knew it would be a lot of work, constantly
having to, like,
convert
people and stuff. You know, the
Unenlightened ones.
He said
it was my only chance, and after he faded away, i wondered if i had
done
the right thing. What would have
happened to me if i had said yes?
Just to
try it out, i tried to get my friends to hear the "Om", but they just
looked
at me funny.
Missed
vocation? Drug-induced hallucination? Perhaps a combination?
(((((((((((((((((((((((nobody
knows))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:10:01 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: For Bentz: Measures, Jazz Giants,
Obituaries, etc.
"The
Creator has a master plan."
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:20:41 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: a poetess in the early peace
movement Re: Denise Levertov.
Much
better! Though I can't get the image of dazzling trucks. And now it is
not the
old who have their own linguistic privacies!
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:24:26 EDT
Reply-To: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Scope of Beat-l
There
have been some questions recently concerning the scope of Beat-l.
As it
states in the "Welcome" message, "Beat-l is an online discussion
forum
devoted to the study of the lives and works of the writers of the
Beat
Generation, especially Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg, and William
Burroughs. In addition to serving as an outlet for
discussion, Beat-l
is
intended to facilitate scholarly communication and to serve as a
bulletin
board or calendar for poetry readings, announcements of new
publications,
upcoming conferences, and related events.
It is NOT
a chat room.
Recent posts have tended to veer too far in that
direction. Postings to Beat-l should be of interest to
a substantial
portion
of listmembers. During a discussion, a
thread may emerge that
is not
directly related to the list's concerns but that may be of
interest
to two or three members. Such a topic
should be taken off the
list
and discussed privately by those interested parties. Likewise,
comments
directed at a specific listmember rather than the group as a
whole
should be sent directly to that person.
Recently, someone asked
about
posting poetry to the list. This can be
a gray area. Certainly,
those
poems written in tribute to Allen Ginsberg after his death were
appropriate.
Likewise, poems written on Beat thems or in a Beat style
might
be of interest to the list as a whole.
I guess common sense has
to
prevail. Fair of not, most people on
the list would probably enjoy a
poem by
Gary Snyder but they might not be as receptive to work by John
Doe. I doubt that a poem now and again will be
objected to by most
listmembers
but we don't want to turn the list into "dial a poem."
Also,
please be careful about not posting copyrighted material to the
list
(including poems) without the author's permission. For those new
to the
list, I will repost the "Guidelines for Discourse" that were
developed
to recently to bring some order and civility to our
discussions. Look for this in the next day or two. Those already
familiar
with the guidelines can hit the delete key.Thanks for your
attention
and for your continued interest in Beat-l.
William
Gargan, Listowner
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:56:09 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Cody, Part III
Good
questions, Michael. Do you really want them answered? We'd have to pack
a lunch
for this beatnik picknik, naked or not.
I don't
have VOC. Never read it. My wife read it when she was a teenager and
liked
it. I've listened to the Krono disc that Allen gave me. Too hysterical
for my
tastes. A young woman helping me with my mss brought me Holy Soul
Jelly
Roll cd . I'm listening to it a little at a time. Some of the poems
I've
heard read before. Read with Allen on some of them. I'm trying to get a
"time-perspective"
on them. I've heard the first cd, and the poem I like best
so far
is Van Gogh's Ear. But your wife's comments are valid about the
'cock.'
The tone reminds me of when I was a
little kid and another boy
wanted
to get under the bed with me to "play". There is a sense of juvenalia
to
Allen's homoeroticism that he seems to be hiding from that same "grown-up
Amerika''
that he seemed to succumb to.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:06:17 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: God
"That
book is good
Which
puts me in a working mood.
Unless
to Thought is added Will,
Apollo
is an imbecile."
Emerson
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:13:53 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: suspicious, but perhaps unfounded.
In a
message dated 97-07-07 16:55:48 EDT, you write:
<<
I also did a search on Charles Bukowski: Three email addresses
> Charles Plymell: No matches >>
I have
no email address, just cveditions@aol.com or
www.buchenroth.com/cplymell.html
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 09:38:12 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Cody, Part III
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>
Michael Stutz wrote:
>
> Good to hear someone say this. VOC is one of
my favorite novels, maybe
> my
>
favorite Kerouac work (surely one of his most ambitious, no?), but upon
> my
>
first read found it incredibly boring and hard to go through at points.
I liked
parts I and II, can sort of see where K is going with this, and I
think I
will probably be fine when I get beyond the tape. Ginsberg
writes
about this section"
"Thus
the tape may be read not as hung-up and boring which it sometimes
is, but
as a spontaneous Ritual performed once & never repeated, in full
consciousness
that every yawn & syllable uttered would be eternal--and
here it
is immortalized after all by the Great Rememberer and his Cast of
Characters
remembering themselves while still alive.
Dramatically, what's interesting is
that we catch Neal at a time
when
self-questioning and early exhaustion of lyric love, self-abuse,
have
dried up his expositional flow & he's considering (as many do at his
age)
the futility & repetitiveness of most of his own talk. This is a
moment
when Kerouac is expecting Saintly Discourse; a moment frustrating
for
all. Also at a time early in
T-consciousness in U.S. when Neal was
smoking
experimentally excessively, that is all the time. & experiencing
such
aphasia or language disconnection & emotional alienation as that
experiment
might cause, as well as awe and emptinesxs of mind which
simultaneous
is both mystical Virtue, & psychological pathology. 'Man
I'm
thinking. I've just spent the last
minute thinking and I had a
complete
block.'"
I have
trouble with "ritual" and the "every yawn and syllable being
eternal"
part. And also, from what AG said, it
seems that K had more of
a vision
for this part than actually developed, because Neal was so high
and
disconnected. The hero (Neal) talking
here, can't express himself
with
his own words. Where does that leave K
in terms of the hero
expressing
himself? K has to do it for him later
on by developing this
theme.
It leaves K with the necessity of taking the writing back to prose
and
back to a romanticization of the hero again, which I assume we get
into
again after this part. I don't have
trouble with there being few
actions
here, with visions, or unconscious language, only with the idea
that
every syllable is eternal simply because it comes from the mouth of
the
hero."
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:03:05 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Cody, Part III
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1.0
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>
Michael Stutz wrote:
>
Something else about these guys that I just now for the first time
>suspect
>
might apply to VOC: my wife doesn't care for Ginsberg's homoerotic
>poetry,
> citing
much of his "i want to suck a cock / your dick as hard as a
>rock"
>
brand of verse as the work of an extremely arrogant man ("You'd _have_
>to
be
>
arrogant to put that stuff on a page and call it poetry! _I_ could
>write
>
poetry like that," she'd say, and come up with her own Ginsberg-style
>poem
>
that would rival his). While Ginsberg's life is now looked at as one of
>
"candor" -- that also being applied to his poetry, the effect of
which
>did
a
>
Good Thing for modern poetry etc., it has a flip side, as it seems to
>have
>
inspired a generation or three of terrible pseudo-beatnik "poets"
that
>
nobody cares about except their pseudo-beatnik friends. Again, Joe Blow
>
writes a poem befitting his name: "i want to suck a cock." Nobody
>cares,
but
>
Ginsberg does it and everybody buys the book. Something like VOC
>couldn't
>
have been written by just anyone, could it? And if someone did, would
>they
> be
able to get it published (and get people to _read_ it) or would they
>need
> 20
years and the help of a marketing agent?
>
First
of all, I don't think VOC fits into this category. I think K did
have a
vision of his own for the work that was meant to perhaps take
language
out of time in much the same way that Joyce did; that he wanted
to take
many only 3-4 human actions in the whole work and have those
dispersed
with all of the out-of-time memories and unconscious material
that
daily floats through the mind? Did he
accomplish that? I won't form
an
opinion on that till I get to the end.
But I think what you are talking about
with regards to Ginsberg
is a
different thing. A lot of people
disregard AG's poetry because they
find it
self-indulgent and arrogant that he would write about, for
example,
his cock. Does that leave it open for
anyone to call
himself/herself
a poet and start writing about genitalia and think that
that
makes them a great poet? Any poet needs
to ground their
intellectualness
in their humanness. For Ginsberg,
perhaps there is a
line between
self-indulgence and self-expressiveness.
He broke barriors
in
modern poetry but it wasn't because he just wrote about the human body
or
sexuality. Even what many call formless
had a larger structural
form,
all part of a larger framework.
DC