=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:25:24 -1000
Reply-To: Margaret Miura
<margaret@KALAMA.DOE.HAWAII.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Margaret Miura
<margaret@KALAMA.DOE.HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg birthday poem (was Ginsberg
& FBI)
Comments:
To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
In-Reply-To: <339474E3.1ED3@together.net>
On Tue,
3 Jun 1997, Diane Carter wrote:
>
RACE --- wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I love Allen Ginsberg
>
> let that be recorded in heaven's
>
> unchangeable heart.
>
>
>
> just popped off my CD player as i typed so i typed what my ears heard
>
> and what some voice in my head said "type that bit" it will add
to the
>
> party.
>
>
>
> Happy Birthday to you....
>
> Happy
>
> Happy
>
> Happy Sad
>
> the line
>
> within
>
> the
>
> between of the
>
> IT
>
> one guesses now
>
> and then.....
>
> IT Birthday to you
>
> IT Birthday to you
>
>
>
> Birthday
>
>
>
> (i'll let someone else begin playing there if they like)
>
> Birthday for us
> what is It for you?
> you now in timeless eternity?
> words here
> stronger than ever
> Do you miss?
> miss city
> manuscripts
> words of Blake
> corner store grass sun clouds
> your first sunflower
> cock
> loves
> The between of IT
> heaven Nirvana paradise
> union of the soul
> and IT
> I will celebrate you
> today
> words
> soul
> triumphant
>
>
(keep adding on)
>
IT becomes
IT is
Nirvana
For me, for you
this day of celebration
Blow upon me your wish
your dare
Silence of rhetoric
Explosion of words
HB AG 2U
and the
CD played on...
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 14:52:12 -0500
Reply-To: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: List changes
In-Reply-To: <3393DCE5.679F@tezcat.com>
I'm
having a problem trying to understand why some list members are so
upset
by the cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-change. Cut and Paste is so easy. If you
have
Eudora, and I imagine many Internet software pkgs are he same, it's as
easy as
clicking on a name in your Recipient List.
j grant
>Dear
Beat-L listmembers and administrators:
>
>I
wish to go on record as being adamantly opposed to the list change
>posted
by Fred Bogin (see below).
>
>If
this new policy is not immediately reversed I will have every reason
>to
unsubscribe immediately, and will encourage everyone else on the list
>to
do so as well.
>
>I
do not see this new policy as something that will kill the list.
>I
SEE IT AS THE DEATH OF THE LIST.
>
>Thank
you,
>John
Hasbrouck
>Chicago
>
>Fred
Bogin wrote:
>
>>Hi
folks,
>>Excuse
me while I pull on my hip boots to wade in here.
>>Effective
immediately, all replies to postings on beat-l will go to the
>>original
sender, NOT the list, unless otherwise specified.
>
>>fred
BE ON THE WATCH
for
items stolen from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic
& Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 16:07:05 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender:
"BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Apology to Sisyphus
Sisyphus,
one of
my favorite mythic characters.
i
wanted to formally apologize for whatever i typed. to those had never
seen a
panic attack in type - now you have.
saw the doctor. got things
cleared
up. i'm supposed to say i don't know
how to do things when i
don't
know how and not feel guilty.
once
again, sorry for the outbursts to Sisyphus and any who had to read
it.
regretfully,
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:13:48 -0400
Reply-To: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: John Cage
I just
got home from detention -- go ahead, Laugh -- where i read John
Cage's
Lecture on Nothing in a poetry anthology called From the Other
Side of
the Century:new american poetry 1960-1990.
It is
Unreal! fucking Amazing!
one of
the metrically dispers-ed lines is "I have nothing to say / and I am
saying
it/ and that is / poetry/ as I need it / . "
He goes
on about Music and talking about the fact that he's talking and
structure
and material and The great lack thereof.
In the
middle-end of the long thing is a section that is repeated for
pages,
it is like a repeating record, reminiscent of using the Cut-Up
machine
that Luke? a listmember has somewhere on the Net. Repeated it
gets a
mysterious chant feel to it that I, personally, find accompanying
a long
obtuseseeming cut-up--poem.
the
section is regenerated here loosely:
I have the feeling
that we are getting
nowhere. Slowly ,
as the talk goes on
we are getting nowhere and that is a pleasure
. It is not iiritating to be where one is . It is
only
irritating to think one would like to
be somwhere else.
.............
More and more we have the feeling
that I am getting nowhere
Slowly , as
tha talk goes on
slowly , we have the feeling
we are getting nowhere. That is a pleasure
which will continue . If we are
irritated
it is not a pleasure Nothing is not a
pleasure if one is irritated ,
but suddenly
, it is a pleasure , and then more and more
it is not irritating (and then more and more
and slowly ).
Originally
we were nowhere ; and now, again
, we are having the pleasure
of
being slowly
nowhere. If anybody
is
sleepy , let him go to sleep.
And so
forth and much more and so on...
the
point of my post?--only this, read this.
:)
from,
Eric
rhs4@crystal.palace.net
what I
think I heard in a piece of simple unstructured music on public radio:
there
are
no
clean
words
the
singer: unknown
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 16:43:28 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: JWHasbrouck
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: JK: early '53
I'm a
lousy lurker.
In any
case, I'm reflecting on Kerouac's output of early 1953, during
which
time he stayed in his bedroom, high on tea, writing/typing MAGGIE
CASSIDY
with Memere in the next room. During the previous two years,
which
may be considered perhaps the most prolific period of his career,
he had
completely broken from the straight narrative style he used in
THE
TOWN AND THE CITY. The first scroll draft of ON THE ROAD (written
4/51)
was of course a major break from traditional forms. But the
sketching
technique used throughout VISIONS OF CODY (written about
10/51-3/30/51,
finished on his birthday) is equally significant.
(Question
for GN, or anybody: How much was Jack CONSCIOUSLY trying to
write
his own ULYSSES while writing VOC?) When VOC was done, Jack left
the
Cassady's attic to stay with Burroughs in Mexico. At this point he
wrote
RAILROAD EARTH and then, once settled in at Bill's place (and
proving
himself to be a less than ideal guest) his cranked out DR. SAX
in
LONGHAND(!).
Regina
Weinrich, in her very interesting book <The Spontaneous Poetics
of Jack
Kerouac>, argues that with each of these books Jack was solving
a
problem of writing, and when the book was done, he set up another
problem
to tackle. (I've stated her thesis rather crudely.) I find this
theory
compelling. It seems to make sense.
But
here's what fascinates me about early '53: After going as far out as
he did
with DR. SAX, Jack came back and wrote MAGGIE CASSIDY in an
entirely
(almost) traditional narrative style. Granted, he wanted to get
published
so he was consciously writing a marketable book, (in fact, if
my
memory serves me correctly, when MC was rejected he really freaked,
wondering
what the hell he was doing writing all these damn books), but
I wanna
know what we can glean from the style of MC that helps us to
understand
this point in his evolution as a writer. (Question mark.) In
what
respect(s) is MC a more mature work than THE TOWN AND THE CITY?
(assuming
that it is...and, of course, it is) What can we say about
MAGGIE
CASSIDY that helps us understand it as a major novel by Jack
Kerouac
at the peak of his powers?
The
LurkMeister Wants To Know!
John
Hasbrouck
Chicago
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 00:49:44 +0100
Reply-To: or205@HERMES.CAM.AC.UK
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Olly Ruff <or205@HERMES.CAM.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg birthday poem (was Ginsberg
& FBI)
In-Reply-To: <339474E3.1ED3@together.net>
>
RACE --- wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I love Allen Ginsberg
>
> let that be recorded in heaven's
>
> unchangeable heart.
>
>
>
> just popped off my CD player as i typed so i typed what my ears heard
>
> and what some voice in my head said "type that bit" it will add
to the
>
> party.
>
>
>
> Happy Birthday to you....
>
> Happy
>
> Happy
>
> Happy Sad
>
> the line
>
> within
>
> the
>
> between of the
>
> IT
>
> one guesses now
>
> and then.....
>
> IT Birthday to you
>
> IT Birthday to you
>
>
>
> Birthday
>
>
>
> (i'll let someone else begin playing there if they like)
>
> Birthday for us
> what is It for you?
> you now in timeless eternity?
> words here
> stronger than ever
> Do you miss?
> miss city
> manuscripts
> words of Blake
> corner store grass sun clouds
> your first sunflower
> cock
> loves
> The between of IT
> heaven Nirvana paradise
> union of the soul
> and IT
> I will celebrate you
> today
> words
> soul
> triumphant
but not.
or as triumphant as you want.
i suppose. I mean :
if you'd felt happy the whole time it
wouldn't mean
anything & you wouldn't have even
thought to write
about it.
right now is bad but i can still pick a lot out of howl
[&when things are good i can pick
out a lot more, obviously]
happy
birthday.
what I mean is, you earned it, most of
us won't.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:04:36 -0700
Reply-To: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: JK: early '53
At
04:43 PM 6/3/97 +0000, you wrote:
>I'm
a lousy lurker.
>
>In
any case, I'm reflecting on Kerouac's output of early 1953, during
>which
time he stayed in his bedroom, high on tea, writing/typing MAGGIE
>CASSIDY
with Memere in the next room. During the previous two years,
>which
may be considered perhaps the most prolific period of his career,
>he
had completely broken from the straight narrative style he used in
>THE
TOWN AND THE CITY. The first scroll draft of ON THE ROAD (written
>4/51)
was of course a major break from traditional forms. But the
>sketching
technique used throughout VISIONS OF CODY (written about
>10/51-3/30/51,
finished on his birthday) is equally significant.
>(Question
for GN, or anybody: How much was Jack CONSCIOUSLY trying to
>write
his own ULYSSES while writing VOC?)
This is
hard to say. But, I think there was a
fair amount of conscious
effort
there. But at the same time I think
there was as muc unconscious
effort
in that he was inspired by Ulysses and Joyce in general and by other
authors
to let himself find the way to produce literature words to convey
his
insides and what he wanted to tell.
I don't
think if a person sits down to write a Ulysses it will be good. But
if they
have read and appreciate and absorbed what Joyce did and tried to
accomplish
and have also been developing his or herself in terms of their
artistry,
then they can write their own Ulysses naturally.
I think
he was trying to do something in the spirit of Joyce, as well as
others
he admired and learned from. I think he
was conscious of it, but the
reason
it worked is because he was first true to his vision.
Now,
here is where the thing comes in.
Kerouac's notes may answer such a
question
fairly directly.
>When
VOC was done, Jack left
>the
Cassady's attic to stay with Burroughs in Mexico. At this point he
>wrote
RAILROAD EARTH and then, once settled in at Bill's place (and
>proving
himself to be a less than ideal guest) his cranked out DR. SAX
>in
LONGHAND(!).
>
Heard
he sat in the bathroom, maybe on the toilet seat itself.
>Regina
Weinrich, in her very interesting book <The Spontaneous Poetics
>of
Jack Kerouac>, argues that with each of these books Jack was solving
>a
problem of writing, and when the book was done, he set up another
>problem
to tackle. (I've stated her thesis rather crudely.) I find this
>theory
compelling. It seems to make sense.
>
I read
her book a while ago. Glad to see it is
in print. I have seen it at
Tower. It is worth reading for those with this type
of interest. I can't
relly
comment on her thesis.
>But
here's what fascinates me about early '53: After going as far out as
>he
did with DR. SAX, Jack came back and wrote MAGGIE CASSIDY in an
>entirely
(almost) traditional narrative style.
The new
biography Angel Headed Hipster is the first book that said Kerouac
actually
had an affair with "Maggie Cassidy".
His wrting this book, why it
got the
attention when their were still many projects in him is a good
question. I don't disagree at all with the commercial
possibilities he was
trying
to exploit. I think at the same time,
that kerouac was so into his
style
and oeuvre-production and art that he lost a little bit of perspective
in
thinking that this was a commercial book.
Even the rather traditional
Maggie
Cassidy had the stamp of Jack kerouac.
But
with the revelation that he maybe even fathered a child with this lady
(I am
not sure how far the affair went on--assuming it is true), he wrote it
after
leaving the Cassidy's after having an affair with Carolyn Cassidy. I
think
he was lonely and his thoughts turned to another woman he loved.
>Granted,
he wanted to get
>published
so he was consciously writing a marketable book, (in fact, if
>my
memory serves me correctly, when MC was rejected he really freaked,
>wondering
what the hell he was doing writing all these damn books), but
>I
wanna know what we can glean from the style of MC that helps us to
>understand
this point in his evolution as a writer. (Question mark.) In
>what
respect(s) is MC a more mature work than THE TOWN AND THE CITY?
>(assuming
that it is...and, of course, it is) What can we say about
>MAGGIE
CASSIDY that helps us understand it as a major novel by Jack
>Kerouac
at the peak of his powers?
>
It is
the revolution in the head as much as the revolution of the word
style. Even writing a trad narrative can't change
who the person is or has
become
or do away with the experiences he had and the insights and takes on
life he
accumulated in his travels (both leterally and philosophically or
metaphorically).
>The
LurkMeister Wants To Know!
>
>John
Hasbrouck
>Chicago
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 20:07:51 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Welcome Back Charles
In a
message dated 97-06-03 01:19:08 EDT, you write:
<<
the Psycho Poet exploded over a billboard
advertisement >>
Richard:
Yeah, I
stayed with Catfish overnight. First time I had been to Milwaukee. We
stayed
up late raking the Psycho Poets over the billboards. He named all the
poets
who had visited the universities there typically 50 years behind the
times.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 20:18:29 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Old Road
In a
message dated 97-06-03 02:07:07 EDT, James Stauffer wrote:
<<
Was that Zap the genuine article? It
had the blue print but I
understand there are copies out there. Been following your footsteps
through Dr. Sax so that I will be able to
follow the Sax vs. Mocassins
heavyweight championship.
>>
James:
Yes it
was indeed the real thing that went through a pre-war multilith in Pam
and my
flat in San Francisco amid nude parties and Huncke (I think) lifting
our IBM
Selectric. Mostly I can tell by the paper, but I remember also the
typeface
stripped in Printed by Charles Plymell.
I am not used to such
generosity,
since the last original Plymell Zap I hear was sold for $1,400 at
Sotheby's.
Coincidentally last such generosity of spirit happened at the same
flat
where Billy Jharmark (Batman Gallery) gave Pam and me his 52 MGTD
classic.
We sold it on the street for $250. I have been trying to correct
myself
by not reselling treasures ever since. Keep ahold of your son's
scooter,
are my words of advice. I sent some things out to you today, but I'm
afraid
it doesn't match your generosity. However my poetry stocks might go up
someday.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:36:46 -0700
Reply-To: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Thanks
June 3, 1997
Just want to say thanks to all the
warm letters of support (many
private)
that I've received in the last couple of days.
I probably won't
have
time to answer all of them individually (I'm already over deadline on
the
Vietnam book and don't want to get over deadline on the autobiography
I'm
committed to write for CONTEMPORARY AUTHORS); but you know who you
are--so
again, thanks, from the bottom of my heart.
I plan to leave the Estate battle to
the courts, and to get back to
the far
more inspiring bloodbath that is the NBA championship series, with
my
hometown Chicago Bulls taking on the big, bad boys from Utah (as well as
small,
wily John Stockton). Will Dennis Rodman
continue his streak of
technical
fouls? Will he get tossed out again?
Are there any color
combinations
he hasn't tried yet for his hair?
Those are the really important
questions.
Adios for a bit, Gerry
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 20:56:23 -0400
Reply-To: Carl A Biancucci
<carl@WORLD.STD.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Carl A Biancucci
<carl@WORLD.STD.COM>
Would
anyone have an extra copy of last years NY Times' magazine article
about
various 'beat' relatives (Caleb Carr,etc.)?
(or
would you know where I could get one?)
Carl
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:09:45 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg and FBI
In a
message dated 97-06-03 14:26:50 EDT, you write:
<<
There
are many good bios of Hoover that are well
worth reading. >>
Howard:
I
thought it was common knowledge about the whole twisted drag
Hoover/Giancomo
scene and the big G-man lie, but I guess people don't see
reality
very clearly when it is constantly superimposed with propaganda. I
urged
Bob Peters to do his one-man J. Edgar Hoover voice play/poem which I
understand he performs in black lace. Peters has retired from the English
dept.
at UC Irvine and his e-mail address is: baculum@mci2000.com
Sometimes
I become frustrated in having to repeat the reality of things as
you
just did. Funny how communication works.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:15:39 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg and FBI
In a
message dated 97-06-03 15:30:21 EDT, you write:
<<
It is good that Ginsy learned that even under old uncle edgar the US was
eminently more free than the countries run by
the mass murdering dictators
he thought he could visit and then was
apparently given an eye opener after
he went to see them (they were trying to use
him).
J. Edgar all ready knew what Ginsberg had to
find out the hard way.
>>
The US
is under the subtle disguise of being "eminently more free". We are
happy
consumer slaves fully controlled and frame the Constitution as divine.
Burroughs
said the public is going to take the place apart. I told him the
other
day that it has already begun. Old freedoms and old values are nothing
but old
conversations and old political systems.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:18:16 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Julian Jaynes (fwd)
Michael
I
download it, got to study it, what a rave. Should keep me occupied for a
while.
Thanks
Charley
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:06:47 -0400
Reply-To: "Michael Ravnitzky (by way of
stratis@odyssee.net Antoine
Maloney)"
<MikeRav@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael Ravnitzky (by way of
stratis@odyssee.net Antoine
Maloney)"
<MikeRav@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: FBI files Available for Many Beat
Writers
Here
you go Jennifer...sORry abOut
MISpellING -j-EnnIfE!?!
Antoine
You can
get the FBI files on many writers of the beat generation.
For
example, Jack Kerouac had a file. So
does Neil Cassidy. And many,
many
more. Many of these files are hundreds
of pages long. I've seen
them. But if you want to discuss them, you'll have
to get your own
copy. I don't discuss contents until someone gets
their own copy.
You can
also get the FBI file of anyone else, as long as they are dead.
[Note: you can also get a file of someone who is
alive, but you'll need
their
written, notarized letter of permission.
So if you want the file
for
William Burroughs or Allen Ginsberg or..... why not ask them.]
To get
someone's FBI file, just send a simple letter to the same
address
as the form letter below. You don't
need any fancy
language,
though, just a simple letter of request including:
full
name or names of the person
date of
birth and date of death of the person
place
of birth and place of death of the person
some
proof that the person is dead, such as a newspaper obituary,
newspaper
or magazine article talking about the fact that the person is
dead,
an encyclopedia article, a specialized encyclopedia, a
biographical
dictionary, Who Was Who in America, or something else like
a death
certificate. A librarian can find something
for you in five
minutes
if you ask at a library.
If you
ask for the file of someone else, not yourself, you DON'T need to
get the
letter notarized. But if you ask for
your own file, you DO need
to get
the letter notarized.
Just
send the request to:
Federal
Bureau of Investigation
Records
Resources Division - Attn: FOIA/PA Office
J.
Edgar Hoover Building
9th
& Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington,
DC 20535
Dear
Sirs:
This is
a request under the Freedom of Information Act. Please send the
all
records you have concerning XXXXXXXXXXX.
Please check your recent
computer
indexes as well as the older indexes and ELSUR indexes.
FOIA/PA
statutes provide that even if some of the requested material is
properly
exempt from mandatory disclosure, all segregable portions must
be
released. If the requested material is released with deletions,
please
mark each deletion to indicate the exemption(s) being claimed to
authorize
each particular withholding. In
addition, I ask that your
agency
exercise its discretion to release records which may be
technically
exempt, but where withholding serves no important public
interest.
I
hereby agree to pay reasonable costs associated with this request up
to a
maximum of $30. Please notify me if the
fees are expected to
exceed
this amount. I am aware that this
request may take slightly
longer
than the time limit of 10 working days provided by law.
Signed,
___________________
I hope
that this is useful to the list.
Michael
Ravnitzky
St.
Paul, Minn.
MikeRav@ix.netcom.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 23:07:12 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: CORNIX instead of COMIX
I'm not
able to crank 1000wpm, not even 450. I'll try agian with the be-bop
poem
and the three Cornix Java scripts you
posted. I want to clarify that
the
type style looks like "comix' instead of "CORNIX" which I wrote
in caps
to
distinguish the "rn" from "m". This type screwed the
address. I'd also
like to
know if anyone else is having trouble with the flashes? Please let me
know
your take on them Thanks.
C.
Plymell
Find
at:
WWW.BUCHENROTH.COM/CORNIXPLYMELL.HTML
WWW.BUCHENROTH.COM/CORNIXOXY.HTML
WWW.BUCHENROTH.COM/CORNIXCOMMITTEE.HTML
or you
can just go to my website at:
www.buchenroth.com/cplymell.html
and those files' links reside near the top.
I am particularly interested in how the poem
I wrote at Ginsberg's committee
on
poetry the day he died came out in CORNIX JAVA flash.
Thanks
again for any comments or potential problems.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 00:01:29 -0400
Reply-To: Sisyphus
<sisyphus@POLARIS.MINDPORT.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sisyphus
<sisyphus@POLARIS.MINDPORT.NET>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg and FBI
Comments:
To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
In-Reply-To: <33945781.5DB7@midusa.net>
David,
I already read your apology, so I don't take offense at this.
Hell,
it's excellent stream-of-consciousness.
(hey, at least we don't
scream
at each other, right?) Go with it. If I find it boring, I'll
feel
free to say so; OK?
[parts
of thread follow:]
On Tue,
3 Jun 1997, RACE --- wrote:
>
Michael Stutz wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, 3 Jun 1997, RACE --- wrote:
>
>
>
> > I don't know how to put the little neat blue URL (or whatever it's
>
> > called) into my message. I'm
on Netscape (if that helps any government
>
> > agents or beats who might assist me ... :)
>
>
>
> see if you can cut and paste it with the shift and arrow keys or your
mouse.
>
> shift-del cuts, shift-ins inserts. if not, just type it -- as long as it
>
> looks like this
>
>
>
> http://somecomputer/someresource-or-whatever
snipped!
to this:
>
> A
special note to Sisyphus. It also would
have been easy for you to do
> a
damn net search. I suffer from anxiety
related health problems and
>
the type of technical stuff which i have no clue about and fear could
>
blow my computer up that you're asking me to do sends me near the edge.
> i
hope that you're happy. i'm very sorry
that it isn't in the fancy
>
blue .
>
>
i'm also sorry that i turned my computer back on. i was only hoping to
All the
way down to this:
>
>
http://www.english.upenn.edu/~afilreis/50s/ginsberg-fbi.html
>
Which
is the URL he hadn't posted in the first place. want
ginsberg-fbi? don` wanna deal wiff no capitalism? read it all.
thanks,
david.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 23:12:45 -0600
Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: R&R Houff
<stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>
Subject: Robert Peters & The XXX Hoover
Charles,
I'm not
sure if I thanked you for sending Robert Peters my way. The
XXX
Hoover, from Slime Comics should be a mandatory owner for every
household-including
squares. The Hunting Of The Snark is an unrecog-
nized
classic in the field. Jesus, it's good! I'm taking my time with
it so
as not to miss anything. It's good to have you back my friend.
Richard
Houff
Pariah
Press
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 00:18:40 -0400
Reply-To: Sisyphus <sisyphus@POLARIS.MINDPORT.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sisyphus
<sisyphus@POLARIS.MINDPORT.NET>
Subject: Re: Apology to Sisyphus
Comments:
To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
In-Reply-To: <33948778.229A@midusa.net>
On Tue,
3 Jun 1997, RACE --- wrote:
>
once again, sorry for the outbursts to Sisyphus and any who had to read
>
it.
Hey
man, I thought it was an addition to the general chaos. Like,
relax,
man. (grin)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:33:47 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: sad state of affairs
JWHasbrouck
wrote:
>
Disillusionment can be quite healthy. It is, after all, the removal of
>
one's illusions. And however cherished these illusions are, they
>
nonetheless are what they are.
>
>
You mention my project, and I assume you refer to my Chronological Beat
>
Reading Project that I began about three years ago, in which I attempted
> to
read the novels, correspondence, memiors, poems and bios of Kerouac,
>
Ginsberg, Burroughs and Cassady (and their closest associates)
>
chronologically, that is, year by year, month by month, week by week,
>
day by day and sometimes hour by hour, (like when I find two letters
>
with the same date and have to determine by content which was written
>
earlier in the day).
>
>
I'd like to tell you where I'm at with that, if I may.
>
>
The project is naive. It is non-scholarly. It is for kicks. Literary
>
Kicks. And it is one of the most interesting and aesthetically
>
gratifying reading experiences I've ever had. I speak as a common reader
> -
and one who is not particularly well-read (but hey, I am at the very
>
least a Devoted Reader. I mean, I own Mortimer Adler's desk and reading
>
chair. I read as if my life depended on it, dammit.)
>
>
Frankly the project is on a haitus which may last several years. I put
> it
on hold when I learned (from the editor himself) that Ginsberg's
>
Selected Letters won't be out for a long time. After two years of
>
intensive reading which involved the constant juggling of 20 or so Beat
>
volumes at a time while sitting at Dr. Adler's desk, I only made it up
> to
the early summer of 1953. But ya know...
>
> I
too am disillusioned. Gone is my popular conception of the Beats as
>
liberated literary saints. At 35, I look back at myself as the
>
19-year-old undergrad who's life was changed by ON THE ROAD and think of
>
how innocent and romantic I was. And I think of Jack Kerouac. I think of
>
Dean Mo-ri-ar-ty.
>
>
But I learned some things from the project. I learned what Ginsberg
>
meant when he said in the film KEROUAC, <He (Jack) could write ALL
>
DAY!> I learned what Burroughs meant when he said Jack was a REAL
>
WRITER. I mean, shit, 80% of my chronological reading was Kerouac. The
>
others were barely beginning. With half the population nowadays calling
>
themselves writers it behooves one to consider Jack as Writer, sitting
> in
the corner of Burroughs' flat in Tangier writing longhand, asking not
> to
be disturbed...speed-typing on bennies...cranking out the first
>
scroll of OTR on caffiene, no doubt breaking only to pee, shouting for
>
sandwiches from his new wife whom he would leave almost the moment the
>
manuscript was done.
>
>
But there's another side to the coin - Kerouac the egomaniac, who, in
>
self-conscious letters to Neal, speaks to Me, John Hasbrouck, saying
>
<yes, dear reader> and going on like he's God's gift to writing, which,
>
despite the sentiments of many of his belated readers, He Was Not.
>
(While reading MAGGIE CASSADY, I remember thinking *If he says REDBRICK
>
one more time I'm going to throw this book out the window!!*)
>
>
Actually, Marie, I'm tempted state that my reading project ended up
>
being a Grand Exercise In Disillusionment. It was like an enormous
>
psychic purge. I AM NOT BEAT. NOT ANYMORE - IF I EVER WAS (despite
>
100,000+ miles on the road as a musician and 15 years of constant
>
intoxication which ended in '90). As much as I love those guys,
>
reflecting on the powerful and emotional inspiration I felt (and
>
continue to feel), physically, in my belly, when I read them sometimes
>
(like that bit in OTR which JK actually took from a letter of his to
>
somebody where he writes about dissolving into fantasy while walking
>
down a street in SF and peering into the window of a bakery(?) and
>
making eye contact an old woman whom he percieved to have been his
>
mother centuries ago and...you know the passage...and his ego-self
>
evaporates into 10,000 mystical droplets of air...yes...that's Jack The
>
Writer I know...fully revised and tightly-knit prose calculated for
>
maximum impact...albeit originating in a spontaneous burst prose
>
transcribed from the image before his mind's eye.) As much as I love
>
them, I try to maintain a perspective, as they say...
>
>
I'd better stop, even though I haven't even mentioned my thoughts on
>
reading Allen, Bill and Neal chronologically. Some other time,
>
perhaps...
>
>
I'm reading Genet. You?
>
> As
ever,
>
John Hasbrouck
>
Chicago
John,
I don't
believe in leaving entire long posts, but this one is so good I
couldn't
cut it up. Caught me tonight as one of
the most thoughfull
ones I
have read in my time on this list.
I have
noticed myself having some of the same reactions to this
material. Loving it so much, but also sensing my own
distance from it,
sensing
my own not beatness or at least very
selective beatness.
I
remember enjoying some your earlier posts on the Chronological project
when I
first came on this list and am glad to hear that even if it's
quiescent
you intend to go forward. Certainly
putting Morimer Adlers
equipment
to good use.
James
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 02:15:19 -0400
Reply-To: Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Withdrawal from Beat-l
Now
I've never been addicted to anything worse that potato chips, but I'm
beginning
to appreciate Junky more and more this last day or two as the
Beat-l
morphs into a new and different animal.
When I
was backchanneling with Levi we were discussing one of the reasons he
felt a
need to take a break was because he said the Beat-l was taking over
his
life and he wasn't getting anything else done. I said I was the same
way,
that I had gotten so consumed I had my mail icon sitting in a little
window
off to the side as I worked other applications and everytime that
thing
flashed "You Have Mail" (which was about every thirty seconds) I
dropped
everything and dove on it like a guy who hadn't eaten in a week.
My wife
says she's glad to see the changes to the Beat-l as she now has her
husband
back!
If
someone would like to call me a dirty name I'd be much obliged...
Jerry
Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 04:53:44 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Withdrawal from Beat-l
Jerry
Cimino wrote:
>
>
Now I've never been addicted to anything worse that potato chips, but I'm
>
beginning to appreciate Junky more and more this last day or two as the
>
Beat-l morphs into a new and different animal.
>
>
When I was backchanneling with Levi we were discussing one of the reasons he
>
felt a need to take a break was because he said the Beat-l was taking over
>
his life and he wasn't getting anything else done. I said I was the same
>
way, that I had gotten so consumed I had my mail icon sitting in a little
>
window off to the side as I worked other applications and everytime that
>
thing flashed "You Have Mail" (which was about every thirty seconds)
I
>
dropped everything and dove on it like a guy who hadn't eaten in a week.
>
> My
wife says she's glad to see the changes to the Beat-l as she now has her
>
husband back!
>
> If
someone would like to call me a dirty name I'd be much obliged...
>
>
Jerry Cimino
Jerry,
your name is MUD
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
glad to hear your wife likes you.
take
care,
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 20:00:38 EST
Reply-To: Richard D Raymond
<madhatter20@JUNO.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard D Raymond <madhatter20@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: FYI: Lowell CELEBRATES Kerouac!
Read about your kerouac- fest and am
interested. send info to: ricky
raymond-
44 fortescue rd. newport, nj 08345. thanks
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:52:13 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: CORNIX instead of COMIX
Comments:
To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Pamela
Beach Plymell wrote:
>
>
I'm not able to crank 1000wpm, not even 450. I'll try agian with the be-bop
>
poem and the three Cornix Java scripts
you posted. I want to clarify that
>
the type style looks like "comix' instead of "CORNIX" which I
wrote in caps
> to
distinguish the "rn" from "m". This type screwed the
address. I'd also
>
like to know if anyone else is having trouble with the flashes? Please let me
>
know your take on them Thanks.
> C.
Plymell
>
Find at:
>
WWW.BUCHENROTH.COM/CORNIXPLYMELL.HTML
>
WWW.BUCHENROTH.COM/CORNIXOXY.HTML
>
WWW.BUCHENROTH.COM/CORNIXCOMMITTEE.HTML
> or
you can just go to my website at:
>
www.buchenroth.com/cplymell.html and those files' links reside near the top.
> I am particularly interested in how the poem
I wrote at Ginsberg's committee
> on
poetry the day he died came out in CORNIX JAVA flash.
>
Thanks again for any comments or potential problems.
I
really enjoyed this game this morning.
i found that if i put it on a
thousand
or whatever top-end is and concentrated VERY hard for one zip
through
the content - then it was EASY to comprehend at around 75%
speed. It was slow by contrast.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 09:49:17 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: State of the list
I am on
several lists. Compared to any that I
am on, this is far and
away
the best. If you want to see a sick
list, check out the Dylan mail
list. I am about to unsubscribe to it. dylan is dead, youre an asshole
for
saying that, when is the new album coming out, lanois is evil, no
he's
boring, no he's a great producer, did I mention dylan left the
hospital,
well he got sick from chicken shit, no it was bat shit, and he
is a
jew, no he repudiated christianity, no he is a muslim, no he is a
jew for
jesus (in that way he would be VERY Christ
like)(hahahahahahahahah),
well, he is a supreficial christian, well if
he is
not a christian then my whole life is going to shatter into a room
full of
mirrors (hey, how did Hendrix get in here), i hate jakob, i love
jakob,
don't talk about jakob here, im gonna committ suicide, dylan is
dead,
no he was just visiting Elvis.
Man,
this list is GREAT. I have been reading
Nicosia and Charles
Plymell
and then some great stuff on top of that.
It has been said if
it was
a cyber snake, it would have cyber bitten you.
As Jesus really
did
say, he who has eyes, let him see.
Dylan
is dead, you asshole, every time you attack the asshole who said
that
you reuse the Dylan is dead referenece and piss us all off again,
dylan
was killed in a motorcyle accident in the 60's you idiots. It was
the
same wreck that got Paul McCartney.
That is the TRUTH. Try to
prove
otherwise.
;-)
Peace,
Rave on
Charles.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:26:58 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: CORNIX instead of COMIX
Comments:
To: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
In-Reply-To: <970603230501_454258580@emout19.mail.aol.com>
On Tue,
3 Jun 1997, Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:
>
I'd also like to know if anyone else is having trouble with the flashes?
I did
at first but not anymore. The original applet I first downloaded had
expired
and when I first checked out your bioxy flash it was the newer
version
and for whatever reason the whole applet square would blink every
time a
new word appeared. Dowloaded it and tried it on my own and had the
same
problem, but I think it was just my Netscrape session at the time,
because
now it works fine.
> I am particularly interested in how the poem
I wrote at Ginsberg's committee
> on
poetry the day he died came out in CORNIX JAVA flash.
I love
this. The words come pouring out in a stream that I think works very
well
with any "stream of consciousness" or "first thought/best
thought" or
"spoken
idiom" style of writing.
Looking
at "Committee" again makes me think this computerized technique has
merit
and is worth further study, but I have some problems with the Cornix
applet
in general.
The
main problem I have with it is a technical one that I'll spare boring
the
list with. That is, it is not free software; it's technically a variant
of
"snareware," being non-modifiable (you don't have access to the
program
instructions).
This I strongly believe inhibits its long-term use for
serious
literature. But I don't think the problem is inherent to the idea of
streamed
text, because a programmer can just write a free version of the
software
(any ready & willing Java coders out there?).
Other
complaints I have with it are tangential to this first one, because if
it was
free software it could be modified to do all these things. First, I
don't
like the buttons on the top. I'd like the screen to consist of just
the
poetry or prose or whatever and no excess junk.
There
also should be a horizontal scroll bar to control your "position" in
the
document. The horizontal scrollbar that's already there controls the
speed;
this should be a vertical control, off the the right and/or left.
That
horizontal bar should start at the left side at the beginning of the
document
and travel across the screen at the appropriate speed as the
document
flashes by so that the reader can determine her position in the
document.
Otherwise, how do you know where you are? "Lost in hyperspace."
Also,
the thing loops when its finished. I don't like this, because when I
read
"Committee," it has such a powerful ending but I didn't have time to
digest
it -- I just got flashed back to the beginning to read Plymell for
eternity.
This isn't good. It should stop at the end, and then restart by
hitting
the START button.
Finally,
another thing I hate about it is that it doesn't seem to respect
paragraph
breaks or tell the difference between spacing. I saw this with
_Sunclipse_
and it drove me nuts -- I think the Cornix applet is an
interesting
way to read _Sunclipse_ and other things but you're going to
have
serious problems digesting the material properly because the applet
doesn't
pause between paragraphs, sections and chapters. So a section will
end and
a new one will start at the same speed of two adjacent sentences.
Same
with two chapters. I believe that some time -- a few seconds maybe --
should
be taken by a reader when completing a chapter; I think this is
normal
& its normal to look at the page and the last sentence a little
longer,
a little natural pause, when completing a chapter, but Cornix
doesn't
do that.
I'd
think this would be worse with poetry, where spacing often has more
importance.
"Committee" ran as one long burst with no pausing between
stanzas.
It had an interesting effect in this case but I think that some
controls
for blank spaces should be configurable.
m
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:51:14 EST
Reply-To: Richard D Raymond
<madhatter20@JUNO.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Richard D Raymond <madhatter20@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Neophyte
Hey kids, I am Ricky, a newbie and relative
youngster. I am newly
intrigued
by the beat writers since allen's death. could you recommend
any
useful books and websites,and is there an address where i can get
ahold
of audio recordings? alas, my local record store is ginsberg-
deprived thanks
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:24:09 -0500
Reply-To: Bob Fox <bfox@SIU.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bob Fox <bfox@SIU.EDU>
Subject: THE LIST
The discussion of the numbers of
BEAT-L members has me curious: is
200-250
a typical membership for a listserve such as this? Does anyone
know? Given the supposed global reach of the
internet and the explosion of
interest
in the Beat Generation, it strikes me that the membership of this
list is
very limited. Does this mean the existence
of the list isn't
widely
known? Or that there isn't that much
interest in this sort of
forum? Or that fewer people are on-line than is
supposed? Or that
interest
in the Beats is exaggerated? What do
you think?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:45:10 -0500
Reply-To: Bob Fox <bfox@SIU.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bob Fox <bfox@SIU.EDU>
Subject: Ginsberg
There is a piece by Paul Berman called
"Allen Ginsberg's Secret"
published
in the latest issue of the on-line magazine SLATE. Go to
http://www.slate.com/
and look in the section called "Back of the Book."
Robert
Elliot Fox
Associate
Professor
Department
of English
Southern
Illinois University at Carbondale
Carbondale,
Illinois 62901
618-453-6864
bfox@siu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 12:42:00 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Withdrawal from Beat-l
Jerry
Cimino wrote:
>
>
Now I've never been addicted to anything worse that potato chips, but I'm
>
beginning to appreciate Junky more and more this last day or two as the
>
Beat-l morphs into a new and different animal.
>
>
When I was backchanneling with Levi we were discussing one of the reasons he
>
felt a need to take a break was because he said the Beat-l was taking over
>
his life and he wasn't getting anything else done. I said I was the same
>
way, that I had gotten so consumed I had my mail icon sitting in a little
>
window off to the side as I worked other applications and everytime that
>
thing flashed "You Have Mail" (which was about every thirty seconds)
I
>
dropped everything and dove on it like a guy who hadn't eaten in a week.
>
> My
wife says she's glad to see the changes to the Beat-l as she now has her
>
husband back!
>
> If
someone would like to call me a dirty name I'd be much obliged...
>
>
Jerry Cimino
I
totally identify with what you're going through. I think that this
beat-l
community is probably the best one the internet. I have been
thrilled
to find it and to find other people of same mind sharing ideas.
I know that it takes a lot of time, it takes
over an hour or two of your
life
every day. but it was exciting coming home to 82 messages every day
that
were at the very least passionate in some way.
And, everytime I was
working
in the computer, I too would click on that little mailbox to see
what
was going on. Maybe we should start
drinking and writing in little
beat-l
journals or something to ease the pain of 17 messages a day...
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 12:59:06 -0400
Reply-To: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: experiments in point of view
In-Reply-To: <33915760.56CF@midusa.net>
ok
gang. i'm sending out a three part experiment, which is part of new
project,
to take several letters from one time period and (in this case)
one
correspondent, and see what shapes what. and choices. and all that.
part I
is original questionalbe poetry quicksketchtoss of what i had
gleaned
in first readings (re readings)
parts 2
and 3 are prose pieces, which take each of both experiences
separately
and yet still parallel.
ack.
so here
goes:
TALKING
TO MYSELF
fragments
and scraps
found in the attic
from
some time in late sixites
(The
original as i typed it and words fought for their rights to choose own
place
in the neighborhood.)
I
talking
to myself
i'm
busy talking to myself
sweet
marie,
ill
write a letter
when
something happens
right
now i'm busy talking to myself i
there
doth seem to be some truth refuse
in the
babbling of the mad
TRUDGE
to
i still
dont know too many people have
as i
cant remember my own name
in the
local bar i sit down on a bar stool to
where
all the toughs sit
i order
a pitcher of beer. work
i drink
the whole thing.
have to
report for draft physical for
late
oct/early nov
no way
out unless i flunk the physical a
i'm not
going to eat living
if dick
gregory can do it
so can
i *this*
write
me because my tonsils are swelling again
is
and i
think i'm going to die (make it airmail)
alternate
step 1 of master plan B: my
(master
plan A was to lose my leg and 3 fingers
master
plan A alternate was to have the manifesto
draft
board
members
lose a
leg and 3 fingers). steal
master
plan B was to go to canada
which
brings us to alternate step 2 if
of
master plan B
i'll
show up with all my plans
writ
down plain and clear you
there
doth be some truth
in the
babbling of the mad need
i
truely hope i will be recognized as such. direction
I I
right
now i'm busy talking to myself
hey
sweet marie,
got yr
postcard. typical.
i'll
write a letter when something happens. right now i'm busy talking to
myself.
i'm sitting here at the bar, enscribing this to you on the head of
a pin,
and finding within my infinite self that there doth be some truth in
the
babbling of the mad after all.
so here
i am,
i'm
sitting here driving home from the ladies banquet , thinking of a
revenge
suitable for all occasions, unless, of course, it's been done
before.
Trudge.
later,
i thumb a ride in the rain.
guy
leans over and says howdy,
friendly
like,
ok, my
long hair and all,
i bite.
"so
what's to be seen or done in the area, eh?"
"i
still don't know too many people
as i
cant remember my own name"
i get
off shortly afterward.
before
i talk any more,
i have
to beg
write
me as my soul dwindles away..
also,
please do not lose my letters as you most likely be able to cash in
on them
when i write my memoirs.
and if
my stories seem a bit thin, its because i still don't know too many
people,
as i cant remember my last name.
III
the
draft board blues
the
other night i go to my bar feeling really blue and lonely and damned
rowdy.
Sit down at the bar, (where all the toughs sit) and order a pitcher
of
beer. I drink the whole thing and and
notice this asshole sitting next
to me
(attitude counts in these places of worship). So he's sitting there
smoking
cigarettes and flicking the ashes like he was shoveling dirt,
kicking
the bar when he wanted another beer, slamming his glass on the bar
every
time he took a sip. all of a sudden (halfway through my secon beer
pitcher)
a dylan song (off blonde on blonde) comes on the jukebox and this
dude
starts singing it- and i say to myself, 'this dont mix" - so i give
him
some of my garlic bread and ask him, "who in fuck do YOU know bob
dylan??
well,
turns out his father used to play bad guitar for johnny cash but
turned
into an alcoholic and cash dropped him..
i
thought he was full of shit so i asked him over to blow some dope, he
says ok
and we stagger out of the bar into his car. (i couldnt find
colorado
U for half an hour (mind you i walked there in 5 min).
finally
we get to my room, dead drunk and stoned out of our minds, i ask
him if
he wants to see my guitar, he says ok, but said he couldn't play
because
he was left handed. I upped the ante, "well, pard, you're in luck.
so am
i." i gave him the guitar.
..and
he entertained me for 3 hours, waking up the entire floor with our
sining
and footstoping. the dude was fantastic. i couldnt believe it. then
he was
gone.
end of
story.
bruce
ps
please write back because my tonsils are swelling again and i think i'm
going
to die. (air mail?)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 12:05:51 -0500
Reply-To: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg
In-Reply-To:
<l03010d03afbaf73d4c90@[131.230.145.137]>
> There is a piece by Paul Berman called
"Allen Ginsberg's Secret"
>published
in the latest issue of the on-line magazine SLATE. Go to
>http://www.slate.com/
and look in the section called "Back of the Book."
>
>Robert
Elliot Fox
>Associate
Professor
>Department
of English
>Southern
Illinois University at Carbondale
>Carbondale,
Illinois 62901
>618-453-6864
>bfox@siu.edu
In the
process of using the most recent Netscape Gold to go to Slate (my
first
time there) to read--and download-- Berman's piece I had to refuse
seven
requests to have a "cookie" placed on my computer.
This
cookie business is almost as outrageous as when Netscape (and others)
were
placing them on computers and not letting people know they were there.
If you
have had a server for a while, check deeply and there's a good
chance
you'll find one.
Long
before these software giants ever admitted that cookies existed a web
colleague
and I found them and couldn't figure out what they were for. We'd
delete
them and they'd be back the next day. Netscape would not asnswer
questions
about them. List members must know by
now that "cookies"
provides
the organization that placed it with a direct line into your
computer,
your computer travels, and AG only knows what else.
This
kind of intrusive crap really wears me out.
So it
goes.
j grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for
items stolen from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic
& Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:38:59 EDT
Reply-To: Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Joe
<100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: wanted - spiritual mentor
wanted,
spiritual mentor
inspired
by kerouac, burroughs, nietzsche, gaarder, wilde,
huxley,
voltaire & dickens i need guidance crossing the road.
more a
lust for wisdom than a plea for help, gurus need
not apply.
joe
newcastleunitedkingdom
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 20:20:18 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: wanted - spiritual mentor
In-Reply-To:
<970604173858_100106.1102_EHU32-2@CompuServe.COM>
joe
writes:
>wanted,
spiritual mentor
>
>inspired
by kerouac, burroughs, nietzsche, gaarder, wilde,
>huxley,
voltaire & dickens i need guidance crossing the road.
>
>more
a lust for wisdom than a plea for help, gurus need
>not
apply.
>
>joe
>newcastleunitedkingdom
>
>
joe,
it's
not picnic
blurs
blur
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:54:20 -0400
Reply-To: Carrie Sherlock
<csherloc@UOGUELPH.CA>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Carrie Sherlock
<csherloc@UOGUELPH.CA>
Subject: Re: THE LIST
Comments:
To: Bob Fox <bfox@SIU.EDU>
In-Reply-To:
<l03010d02afbaf0fcd46f@[131.230.145.137]>
Please
take me off the list.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:38:52 -0700
Reply-To: Malcolm Lawrence
<Malcolm@WOLFENET.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Malcolm Lawrence
<Malcolm@WOLFENET.COM>
Subject: When was June ever wed so weary
When
was June ever wed so weary
with
the white caps
and the
waves
wondering
if
the
wind were winding
up into
a whistle
to fall
on your withering grave
While I
sat lonely
while I
stood gazing
while I
swam nude
into
the sun
Maison
du Soleil
saluting
a sight
you
always beheld
in the
middle of your palm
I gave
you the land
I gave
you the seas
you
took the roads
and
shook the rails
swallowing,
falling
kneeling,
climbing
pastures,
churches
cities,
jails
I have
the circuits
mine is
the cable
that
lies frayed
at the
edge of the world
just a
livewire
thrashing
in tune to the flame
where
the evening nestles, sleeps and curls
Some
say I'm happy
some
say I'm busy
some
say I miss you more than you need
all
that I ask
is a
fresh round of snakebites
and you
top of
the table
for me
to see
--Malcolm
Lawrence
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:40:15 -0700
Reply-To: Malcolm Lawrence
<Malcolm@WOLFENET.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Malcolm Lawrence
<Malcolm@WOLFENET.COM>
Subject: The Meaning of Life
Afternoon,
all...
For all
you Tom Waits fans out there in the cyberlounge...
A few
years back Time/Life came out with a couple of coffee table books
called
The Meaning of Life and More Reflections on the Meaning of Life,
where
they ask very prominent people from all walks of life what they
thought
the meaning of life was.
Enjoy
Malcs
---------------------------------------
While
Calamity Jane in a slow burlesque plays catch in a bone yard way at
the top
of a two-legged mare
it was
a good night full of bad dreams with flat champagne and leaves in my
hair,
still shooting at birds with a violin bow
first
whisper your dreams in your children's ears making them safe as a
hurricane
dangling from a spider web
and
across the plate with a swing and a crack with just a skull for a ball
and a
leg-bone bat
and all
I remember are sparkle rocks, blue horses and flamingos as the
train
begins to slow
and I
always saw better when my eyes were closed
--Tom
Waits
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:09:58 -0400
Reply-To: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: last revision of experiment
In-Reply-To:
<9704248645.AA864508671@Mail.ff.cc.mn.us>
Talking
to myself
fragments
and scraps from years past
I
i'm
busy talking to myself,
sweet
marie,
i'll
write a letter
when
something happens
right
now i'm busy talking to myself i
there
doth seem to be some truth refuse
in the
babbling of the mad
TRUDGE
to
i still
dont know too many people have
as i
cant remember my own name
in the
local bar i sit down on a bar stool to
(where
all the toughs sit)
i order
a pitcher of beer. work
i drink
the whole thing.
have to
report for draft physical for
late
oct/early nov
no way
out unless i flunk the physical a
i'm not
going to eat. living
if dick
gregory can do it
so can
i *this*
write
me because my tonsils are swelling again
is
and i
think i'm going to die (make it airmail)
my
manifesto!
steal it
if
you
there
doth be some truth
in the
babbling of the mad need
i
truely hope i will be recognized as such. direction
I I
right
now i'm busy talking to myself
hey
sweet marie,
got yr
postcard. typical.
i'll
write a letter when something happens. right now i'm busy talking to
myself.
i'm sitting here at the bar, enscribing this to you on the head of
a pin,
and finding within my infinite self that there doth be some truth in
the
babbling of the mad after all.
so here
i am,
i'm
sitting here
driving
home from the ladies banquet ,
thinking
of a revenge suitable
for all
occasions.
later,
i thumb a ride in the rain.
guy
leans over and says howdy,
friendly
like,
ok,
with my long hair and all,
so i
bite and ask him,
"so
what's to be seen or done in the area, eh?"
welp,
he replied
"i
still don't know too many people
as i
cant remember my own name"
i get
off shortly afterward.
before
i talk any more,
i have
to beg
write
me as my soul dwindles away..
also,
please do not lose my letters as you most likely be able to cash in
on them
when i write my memoirs.
and if
my stories seem a bit thin, its because i still don't know too many
people,
as i cant remember my name.
III
i do
the scene
the
other night i go to my bar feeling really blue and lonely and damned
rowdy.
Sit down at the bar, (where all the toughs sit) and order a pitcher
of
beer. I drink the whole thing and and
notice this asshole sitting next
to me
(attitude counts in these places of worship). So he's sitting there
smoking
cigarettes and flicking the ashes like he was shoveling dirt,
kicking
the bar when he wanted another beer, slamming his glass on the bar
every
time he took a sip. all of a sudden (halfway through my second beer
pitcher)
a dylan song (off blonde on blonde) comes on the jukebox and this
dude
starts singing it- and i say to myself, 'this dont mix" - so i give
him
some of my garlic bread and ask him, "HOW
in fuck do YOU know bob
dylan??
well,
turns out his father used to play bad guitar for johnny cash but
turned
into an alcoholic and cash dropped him..
i
thought he was full of shit so i asked him over to blow some dope, he
says ok
and we stagger out of the bar into his car. i couldnt find the dorm
for
half an hour (mind you i walked there in 5 min).
finally
we get to my room, dead drunk and stoned out of our minds, i ask
him if
he wants to see my guitar, he says ok, but said he couldn't play
because
he was left handed. I upped the ante, "well, pard, you're in luck.
so am
i." i gave him the guitar.
..and
he entertained me for 3 hours, waking up the entire floor with our
singing
and footstomping. the dude was fantastic. i couldnt believe it.
then he
was gone.
end of
story.
ps
please write back because my tonsils are swelling again and i think i'm
going
to die. (air mail?)
lefty
IV
THE
DRAFT
again,
somewhere sometime in late 60s
sweet
marie:
i have
to report for my draft physical in late oct, early nov. my number's
up,
pal. unless, of course i flunk the physical, and believe me i am
working
on it. have on board speed, limitless blotter, and other brain toys
to keep
me sleep deprived and hinky. also have stopped eating , going for a
50
pound drop asap: hey if dick gregory can fast, so can i and i bet i'll
have
more fun.
ok
enough of that.
listen.
there
are alternate plans in case i turn out to be staggeringly healthy.
alternate
step one of master plan B:
(master plan A was to lose my leg and
three fingers. master plan A
alternate
was to have the draft board members each lose a leg and 3
fingers.
ok so i'm not that goulish a guy, which brings me to plan B: go to
canada.
i dont have nearly the neccessary quantities of longjohns, so i
skipped
immediately to
scrounging
round my brain for alternate plan B.
you'll know it as soon as i do,
but dont be surprised if i show up at
yr bedroom floor
etc et
al
lefty
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:10:29 -0700
Reply-To: James William Marshall
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Re: wanted - spiritual mentor
>To:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>
>wanted,
spiritual mentor
>
>inspired
by kerouac, burroughs, nietzsche, gaarder, wilde,
>huxley,
voltaire & dickens i need guidance crossing the road.
>
>more
a lust for wisdom than a plea for help, gurus need
>not
apply.
>
>joe
>newcastleunitedkingdom
Joe,
Quick. Look. Left.
James M.
Hope
that helps.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:07:59 -0500
Reply-To: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Skau
<mskau@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject: Burroughs in _Time_
Don't
know if anyone has pointed this out yet, since I cannot seem to
keep up
with the volume of correspondence on this service: last week's
_Time_
(2 June 1997) has a photo of Burroughs in the People section
(p.
90). The segment is titled "The Four Off Ramps of the Apocalypse,"
and the
article reads as follows: "If U2 has it right, life as we know
it will
end in the greatest traffic snarl in history. The Irish rockers
almost
caused it last week, when they made a video for the ARmageddon-
theme
song _Last Night on Earth_ from their new CD _Pop_. Motorists in
Kansas
City, Mo., got a glimpse of hell: highways were closed, city streets
were
blocked, and police corralled hundreds of fans. In the video, author
WILLIAM
BURROUGHS, 84, whose nihilistic novels have influenced U2 front
man
BONO, embodies a malign force that brings down civilization. Symbolizing
the
band's dim view of a rampant consumer culture (but they will happily
sell
you a CD!), frail Burroughs pushes a shopping cart out of the dead
city.
The band hopes to shoot two more videos during its Pop-Mart tour
in the
U.S., says manager Paul McGuinness. Commuters, beware! The end is
nigh."
Michael
Skau
6/4/97
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:20:30 -0700
Reply-To: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Floyd Salas
June 4, 1997
To all
the Good and Friendly (and Dwindling) Folk on the Beat-L:
My heart gets sad thinking about Jan
Kerouac being dead one year
already,
tomorrow.
But I'd like to share some glad
tidings with you too.
I've been asked to present the the
First Annual PEN West Literary
Censorship
Award on Saturday night, June 7, at the Pro Arts Gallery in
Oakland,
6PM, to Floyd Salas. (Other PEN WEST
Josephine Miles literary
awards
will be presented that night too--it's five bucks at the door,
Ishmael
Reed will be on hand, and well worth the price for those in or near
the Bay
Area.)
I want to recommend to all of you,
that you check out the works of
Floyd
Salas, an amazing man and writer.
Started off as a street kid, a
tough
guy, on the streets of Oakland, one brother a gangster, the other a
lonely
gay pharmacist who committed suicide.
Hispanic background, in fact a
descendant
of Coronado, I believe.
Salas became a semi-pro boxer, won
countless matches, but decided he
really
wanted to be a writer. Wrote a book
about homosexual rape on a
California
prison farm (he'd been in jail himself) called TATTOO THE WICKED
CROSS. Nobody wanted to touch it till Nelson Agren
recommended it to his
agent
Candida Donadio. Donadio sold it, and
it got rave reviews when it
came
out around 1960--and Floyd won a succession of awards.
But he kept writing down and dirty
stuff, he was part of the big
student
strike at San Francisco State in 68 (which he wrote about in a novel
called
LAY MY BODY ON THE LINE). It got
knocked hard by the critics for
attacking
the U.S. govt. and the way the govt. used all kinds of dirty
tactics
in those days--surveillance and provocateurs, etc.--to kill dissent.
His
followup novel, STATE OF EMERGENCY, didn't get published for almost 20
years--and
finally came out last year from Arte Publico.
In the meantime Salas has published
poems, a great novel about the
drug
dealers of the Haight Ashbury called WHAT NOW MY LOVE? and an even
greater
nonfiction autobiography called BUFFALO NICKEL.
Check this man out. 65 years old, coached boxing at Cal up till
a
year
ago, looks at most 50 (body in great shape, mind still amazing).
Honored to be a friend of his.
Let Salas be a lesson to you. This list is just getting its second
wind.
-- Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:12:23 -0400
Reply-To: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: wanted - spiritual mentor
James,
Lots of tourists get killed by looking
left before they realize that
in the
UK cars are coming from the right!! Good advice in priciple though....
Anybody better qualified than me going
to offer Joe some non-guru
guidance?
I'd hate to have to offer him Kalil
Gibran as the solution to the
meaning
of life! ...and that was after ridding
myself of an unhealthy
interest
in Aleister Crowly!
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:12:25 -0400
Reply-To: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Tom Waits' meaning?
Malcolm,
Do you know if those are some of his
song lyrics? ...or written for
the
book? Don't recognize the lyrics, although I can recognize him.
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:12:27 -0400
Reply-To: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: Neophyte
Ricky,
For a place to find recordings and
make orders, there are tons of
places
that can help on the web oncluding WaterRow Books and
WWW.kerouac.com;
Mercury has an interesting site for their "mouth almighty"
spoken
word records label. They put out the recent release of ginsberg's
titled
"Ballad of the Skeletons" - recommended, despite being three versions
of one
song and one other song...but great songs/poems.
If you're a fan of Philip Glass,
"Hydogen Jukebox" with libretto and
some
spoken word passages by Allen is excellent. The Kronos Quartet have an
interesting
recording called "Howl, U.S.A." with a recording of an
accompanied
Howl and Footnote to Howl. It also has Harry Partch's "Barstow:
eight
hitchhikers' inscriptions from a highway railing at Barstow,
California"
and pieces by Michael Daugherty and Scott Johnson.
For straight ahead poetry,
"Howls, Raps, and Roars ahs one of four
CDs
given over to Ginsberg, and "Holy Soul, Jelly Roll" is all Ginsberg
[don't
have it and haven't listened to it].
The
Beat Generation put out by Rhino has some Ginsberg as well as lots of
other
cool - and occasionally cheesy, but interesting - stuff.
Antoine
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 23:33:56 +0100
Reply-To: or205@HERMES.CAM.AC.UK
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Olly Ruff
<or205@HERMES.CAM.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Burroughs in _Time_
In-Reply-To: <199706042208.RAA21607@cwis.unomaha.edu>
On Wed,
4 Jun 1997, Michael Skau wrote:
>
Don't know if anyone has pointed this out yet, since I cannot seem to
>
keep up with the volume of correspondence on this service: last week's
>
_Time_ (2 June 1997) has a photo of Burroughs in the People section
>
(p. 90). The segment is titled "The Four Off Ramps of the
Apocalypse,"
>
and the article reads as follows: "If U2 has it right, life as we know
> it
will end in the greatest traffic snarl in history. The Irish rockers
>
almost caused it last week, when they made a video for the ARmageddon-
>
theme song _Last Night on Earth_ from their new CD _Pop_. Motorists in
>
Kansas City, Mo., got a glimpse of hell: highways were closed, city streets
>
were blocked, and police corralled hundreds of fans. In the video, author
>
WILLIAM BURROUGHS, 84, whose nihilistic novels have influenced U2 front
>
man BONO, embodies a malign force that brings down civilization. Symbolizing
>
the band's dim view of a rampant consumer culture (but they will happily
>
sell you a CD!), frail Burroughs pushes a shopping cart out of the dead
>
city. The band hopes to shoot two more videos during its Pop-Mart tour
> in
the U.S., says manager Paul McGuinness. Commuters, beware! The end is
>
nigh."
>
Michael Skau
>
6/4/97
Oh, for
Christ's sake....
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:38:37 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: wanted - spiritual mentor
Comments:
To: Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Antoine
Maloney wrote:
>
>
James,
>
> Lots of tourists get killed by looking
left before they realize that
> in
the UK cars are coming from the right!! Good advice in priciple though....
just
don't look period. (and a nice glossy
of Nancy Reagan)
>
> Anybody better qualified than me
going to offer Joe some non-guru
>
guidance?
>
> I'd hate to have to offer him Kalil
Gibran as the solution to the
>
meaning of life!
that
one brought a laugh. i distinctly
remember stealing his book
Madman
cuz i'd never seen it and couldn't afford it.
i use to call that
"liberating"
books.
i'll
take a guru with a shopping cart and one eye on the apocalypse and
the
other down the sinkhole.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 20:16:44 -0400
Reply-To: ty <ursus@RIVER.GWI.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: ty <ursus@RIVER.GWI.NET>
Subject: Re: FYI: Lowell CELEBRATES Kerouac!
In-Reply-To: <19970424.145043.10646.0.madhatter20@juno.com>
On Wed,
23 Apr 1997, Richard D Raymond wrote:
> Read about your kerouac- fest and am
interested. send info to: ricky
>
raymond- 44 fortescue rd. newport, nj 08345. thanks
>
woah, i must've missed this... what's the
story on this?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 21:58:25 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Robert Peters & The XXX Hoover
In a
message dated 97-06-04 06:52:11 EDT, you write:
<<
The Hunting Of The Snark is an unrecog-
nized classic in the field. Jesus, it's good!
I'm taking my time with
it so as not to miss anything. >>
Richard:
I got
my copy when I got back. It should be read by anyone who continues with
poetry. I have attempted to forward your post to
Bob. I hope it works, he's
still
fumbling with his computer. Give him a jolt if you want.
Charley
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 21:59:42 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: sad state of affairs
In a
message dated 97-06-04 07:00:22 EDT, you write:
<<
Caught me tonight as one of the most thoughfull
ones I have read in my time on this list.
>>
Yeah me
too. I read it twice now thwee times!
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 22:02:35 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Withdrawal from Beat-l
David:
Hooked
in your mailbox with your flag up.
Charley
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 22:11:16 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: CORNIX instead of COMIX
In a
message dated 97-06-04 08:10:55 EDT, you write:
<<
Kansas I absolutely loved. First of all
it's an insanely good poem.
(Where can I find it in normal lines for my
old fashioned brain). The
speed was perfect I thought. For awhile I had in going in perfect synch
with Luther Allison rocking out and it was
one of those perfect things.
The poem was just rockin.
I still wish there was a way to tweak Cornix
so that you could get
rhythm into a line, or give some words more
time. Or hook words
together so that phrases flash sometimes not
just single words. Also I
was noticing that differing word lengths were
hard for me. My eye must
be slow or I was too close to my
monitor. I'll spend some more times
with these.
>>
James:
And
thanks for that little comparison I had to delete for Rod Anstee would be
on my
ass again for self-promotion. Thanks for to others I will respond to
about
Cornix. My computer lays the words dead on the screen. The only chance
I had
to see my poems in action was at Patricia's in Lawrence and we had
conversations
over them. I did sense that some work well and others do not.
There
is a wonderfully detailed post about line breaks and rhythym that I
might
repost. It fascinates me. Also I work in a learning center part time
with
students who have all sorts of trouble with language access and I'm
developing
some ideas about its application in a digital environment rather
than
the old linguistic mind chunk analog environment.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 23:02:43 -0400
Reply-To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: CORNIX instead of COMIX
In a
message dated 97-06-04 10:30:17 EDT, you write:
<<
I love this. The words come pouring out in a stream that I think works
very
well with any "stream of consciousness"
or "first thought/best thought" or
"spoken idiom" style of writing.
Looking at "Committee" again makes
me think this computerized technique has
merit and is worth further study, but I have
some problems with the Cornix
applet in general.
>>
Michael:
Thanks
for your wonderful analysis of CORNIX and your feedback. As I've
mentioned
before I have been a writing teacher for many years and have used
the
mind chunk "analog" that has been accepted, but I am running into
what I
call a
"digital" generation that is visually word fixated and use a rapidly
changing
private vocabularies. As a teacher my expected inferential and
"gist"
references seem to be loosing out. Of course it can be that I am
getting
crazier and more incoherent too.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 00:16:49 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: last revision of experiment
Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
>
Talking to myself
>
fragments and scraps from years past
>
> I
>
>
i'm busy talking to myself,
>
sweet marie,
>
i'll write a letter
>
when something happens
>
right now i'm busy talking to myself i
>
>
there doth seem to be some truth refuse
> in
the babbling of the mad
>
>
TRUDGE
to
>
> i
still dont know too many people have
> as
i cant remember my own name
>
> in
the local bar i sit down on a bar stool to
>
(where all the toughs sit)
>
> i
order a pitcher of beer. work
> i
drink the whole thing.
>
>
have to report for draft physical for
>
late oct/early nov
> no
way out unless i flunk the physical a
>
>
i'm not going to eat. living
> if
dick gregory can do it
> so
can i *this*
>
>
write me because my tonsils are swelling again
is
>
and i think i'm going to die (make it airmail)
>
> my
> manifesto!
>
steal it
> if
>
>
you
>
>
there doth be some truth
> in
the babbling of the mad need
>
> i
truely hope i will be recognized as such. direction
<parts
II, III, IV, snipped for easier reply through cyberspace>
Hi
Marie. I'm very intrigued by this
experiment. I don't know exactly
where
to jump in, but while the multiple forms of what you are creating
parallel
one another they affect the reader in tremendously different
ways:
Part 1, poetry; Part II, prose and semi-poetry; parts III and IV as
more
storytelling prose. The Talking to
myself part one evokes much more
emotion
and a sense of leaving you hanging there thinking, which really
works. There's sort of an irony there that is
missing in the prose. I
would
be tempted to expand the poetry of part one with more detail from
the
environment created in the prose. Also,
because the experiences are
based
on correspondence from someone else during one period of time, you
are in
fact processing his thoughts and emotions at that time before
feeding
it out to us again, reflecting his experience off of your own
experience
and into ours. You not telling a story
but retelling a story
(time,
place, feeling, whatever). I think that
something is lost in the
retelling
that is not lost in the poetry. What do
you think of doing the
"I
do the scene" as total stream of consciousness from his mind, putting
you
directly in that place and time instead of describing it? Does any
of this
make any sense?
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 22:58:41 -0500
Reply-To: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: travels
One of
the interesting things about beat literature is that so many of
the
players are still playing and their influence net is so productive.
I was
sad when the coming and goings of people related to the beat
literature
net work was called not apporpriate to the list. I love
hearing
that ken k was traveling and putting himself out there.
I like
recycling, i read the books i have gotten something out of more
than
once. I love putting things in a
variety of contexts, the next
cycle
is so often deeper or richer. When i
met edie k, i gained at
least a
broader picture of jk as a man, from her stories and from her
persona.
I also
met her not just as jk's exwife but someone who obviously was a
peice
of the fabric. I am interested in the
odd little details, like
what
did they eat,
how did
people meet. I remember hearing a story
about jk and wsb being
in
chicago at the d convention and they eating lunch together. I
caredwondered
what they ate and what they drank.
i
appreciatted meeting Charles and Billy plymell, I got a little
overwhelmed
and was abrupt with my exit, my friends teased me that not
everyone
was comfortable with my 10 second exits. but i have been
reading
plymell this week, he left this great site bookmarked on my
puter ,
my daughter has been showing her friends the compelling single
word
stories. Her fascination with language grows.
we are very lucky
that
those that play have graced this list, it is a list of writers and
readers.
I am not scholarly but appreciate the scholars. most of this is
selfish,
I love the power of the word, the rythms the visions. back to
lurking.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 03:03:09 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Unsubscribe me from the Dylan list
Hey:
In
order to be different and revealing the desperation to do so, I have
unsubscribed
to the Dylan mail list because I like this one better. I
am
about to do the same with the Celtic list.
Interesting.
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 05:23:13 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: spirits for Antoine
pulled
that old 'liberated' Gibran off the shelf.
Here's
a clip i always laughed a lot at:
[Soundtrack:
'Silent Night Holy Knight - by Lou Reed]
THE
GOOD GOD & THE EVIL GOD
The
Good God and the Evil God met on
the
mountain top.
The
Good God said, "Good day, to you,
brother."
The
Evil God made no answer.
And the
Good God said, "You are in a
bad
humour today."
"Yes,"
said the Evil God, "for of late I
have
been often mistaken for you, called
by your
name, and treated as if I were you,
and it
ill-pleases me."
And the
Good God said. "But I too have
been
mistaken for you and called by your
name."
The
Evil God walked away cursing the
stupidity
of man......
____________________
on the
subject of spiritual advise
which
you'd answered yesterday
to
someone who'd wanted
non-guru-ic
advice of such character,
i was
thinking the first
requirement
would be to
determine
what
your soul is worth
if it
is worth more or less
than 2
cents,
probably
ought to jump back
down
the drain and come
back in
a new life with the
morning
shower.
Then if
it is worth
precisely
2 cents
it is
far too easily
bought
or sold.
All
this is just a note
passing
on to the original
questioner
of
sorts
wondering
why one looks
outside
for
spirit
when
spirit is inside
and my
spirit is
not
your spirit
and so
my advice
could
at best be
disguised
guruism.
listen
to a cricket
speak
for two hours
a day
until
you understand
the
melody
while
eating an apple
a day
and
keep those spiritual
advisors
at bay !!!!
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 05:55:57 -0500
Reply-To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: CORNIX instead of COMIX
Comments:
To: CVEditions@AOL.COM
Pamela
Beach Plymell wrote:
>
> In
a message dated 97-06-04 08:10:55 EDT, you write:
>
>
<< Kansas I absolutely loved.
First of all it's an insanely good poem.
> (Where can I find it in normal lines for my
old fashioned brain). The
> speed was perfect I thought. For awhile I had in going in perfect synch
> with Luther Allison rocking out and it was
one of those perfect things.
> The poem was just rockin.
>
> I still wish there was a way to tweak Cornix
so that you could get
> rhythm into a line, or give some words more
time. Or hook words
> together so that phrases flash sometimes not
just single words. Also I
> was noticing that differing word lengths
were hard for me. My eye must
> be slow or I was too close to my
monitor. I'll spend some more times
> with these.
> >>
>
>
James:
>
And thanks for that little comparison I had to delete for Rod Anstee would be
> on
my ass again for self-promotion. Thanks for to others I will respond to
>
about Cornix. My computer lays the words dead on the screen. The only chance
> I
had to see my poems in action was at Patricia's in Lawrence and we had
>
conversations over them. I did sense that some work well and others do not.
>
There is a wonderfully detailed post about line breaks and rhythym that I
>
might repost. It fascinates me. Also I work in a learning center part time
>
with students who have all sorts of trouble with language access and I'm
>
developing some ideas about its application in a digital environment rather
>
than the old linguistic mind chunk analog environment.
>
Charles Plymell
it
seems that 'tweaking' can take place by altering the font size of the
text to
create rhythm. i noticed certain words
POP OUT or not more or
less so
depending on their font-size. Now
currently, those would be
somewhat
at random because the sizes are somewhat associated with how
one
would expect them to be written to be read on the printed page.
With
experimentation, it seems that Bolding, in quotes, underlined, and
huge
font (sounds like something from Alice's Restaraunt) guarantees
emphasis. Now, i have next to no talent and creating
anything akin to a
bop in
my writing. mine is the style of the
racey bee whose lots its
bop. but i think that one could play with this
textual device to
provide
rhythmic hints in the digitalized form.
Does that make sense to
anybody
else????
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 08:16:09 -0400
Reply-To: Jay S Gertz
<jgertz@BULLDOG.UNCA.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jay S Gertz
<jgertz@BULLDOG.UNCA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Neophyte
Comments:
To: Antoine Maloney <stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
In-Reply-To:
<199706042112.RAA00393@biggs.microtec.net>
What
about Holy Soul Jellyroll, poems and songs 1949-1993? Rhino WordBeat.
4 cd's.
(Ginsberg). Also Jack Kerouac, 3 cd's also on Rhino WordBeat.
Kleb
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 09:11:40 EDT
Reply-To: mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Hemenway <mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: lowell keroauc festival
Lowell
Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc
P.O.
Box 1111, Lowell, MA 01853
10th
ANNUAL FESTIVAL CELEBRATES JACK KEROUAC'S VISION OF LOWELL
In case
anyone missed it, here's the post on Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!
again.
Mark
Hemenway
*****
FOR
IMMEDIATE RELEASE
PRESS CONTACT:
MAY 27,
1997 Mark
Hemenway:
Day:
508-475-9090 ext 1239
Evening:
508-458-1721
PUBLIC
INQUIRIES:
1-800-443-3332
508-458-1721
(Lowell,
MA) The 10th Annual Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival will take
place
2- 5 October in Lowell, MA. This year's theme will be Kerouac
Celebrates
Lowell. We will celebrate and explore the real and the mythic
Lowell.,
Massachusetts that Kerouac brought to life in his writing.
The
people and places of Lowell are central to Kerouac's work. Five of his
novels
describe his childhood and youth in the city, and images and
references
to his hometown appear in virtually every one of his works. His
descriptions
of Lowell are remarkable for their beauty, power and
timelessness.
Through them, millions of readers have come to know Lowell
as a
universal hometown. Join us as we walk the wrinkly tar sidewalks and
redbrick
alleys that Jack Kerouac wrote about in his novels and poetry.
Full
Press Release Attached
begin
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`
end
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 09:14:23 EDT
Reply-To: mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Hemenway
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Lit Prize Repost
Here's
a rerun of the guidlelines for the Jack Kerouac Literary Prize...
******
9th
ANNUAL JACK KEROUAC LITERARY PRIZE- Guidelines
Experienced
and emerging writers are invited to submit written works in
competition
for the 9th Annual Jack Kerouac Literary Prize. This Prize
will
consist of a $500 honorarium and an invitation to present the prize
winning
manuscript at a public reading during the 10th Annual Lowell
Celebrates
Kerouac! Festival in Lowell, MA from 2 through 5 October 1997.
SUBMISSIONS
MUST MEET THE FOLLOWING CRITERIA:
1. All works must be in English and not
previously published.
2. Submissions will be accepted between 1
March 1997 and 1 August
1997.
Entries postmarked after 1 August 1997 will not be accepted. The
deadline
for all entries is 1 August 1997.
3. The author's name must not appear
anywhere on the manuscript.
4. Submissions must be accompanied by a 3x5
index card containing the
author's
name, address, telephone number and manuscript title.
5. Authors retain all rights and privileges
to their work including
full
copyright protection, but manuscripts will not be returned.
6. An entry fee of $5.00 must accompany
each submission. Please make
checks
payable to: LOWELL CELEBRATES KEROUAC!
8. Submissions must meet the following
format requirements:
FICTION:
a. Submit one, typed, double-spaced
copy of your manuscript;
b. Your
entry must not exceed thirty (30) pages excerpted from a novel; or
a
maximum of three (3) short stories with a combined length of thirty
pages
or less.
POETRY:
a. Submit one typed copy of your
manuscript;
b. Your
entry must not exceed eight (8) poems with a combined length of 15
pages
or less. No entry may exceed fifteen (15) pages.
NON-FICTION:
a. Submit one typed, double-spaced
copy of your manuscript;
b. Your
entry must not exceed thirty (30) pages excerpted from a volume,
or a
maximum of three (3) essays with a combined length of thirty (30)
pages
or less.
9.
Submit all manuscripts to:
The
Jack Kerouac Literary Prize
P.O.
Box 8788
Lowell,
MA 01853-8788
10.
Authors will receive notification of the prize winner in September
1997.
The
Jack Kerouac Literary Prize is sponsored by Lowell Celebrates
Kerouac!,
Inc (a non-profit organization), The Estate of Jack and Stella
Kerouac,
and Middlesex Community College.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 08:12:13 -0500
Reply-To: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: travels
Antoine
Maloney wrote:
>
> Hi
(edited)Patricia,
>
> First off, I'm very envious of you
having been able to spend time
>
with Charles Plymell, not to mention EdieK and Burroughs and others - and
>
for exactly the reasons you describe; the chance to hear about what they
>
ate, were they listening to jive or doo-wop or Leadbelly or Lightenin'
>
Hopkins or wh? ...all that stuff!. So, green with envy
>
> Secondly, what did you mean when you
referred to the single word
>
stories that your daughter was interested in?
>
> Thirdly, the exchanges between your
daughter Lena (am I right?) and
>
Charles and his son were charming to read. Was Ben somehow tied into that as
>
well? or was that a serendipitous start? Ben was the 10 year old trapped on
>
the Beat list.
>
> Regards, Antoine
> Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
>
> "An anarchist is someone who
doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"
> -- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
dear
antoine
I had mentioned to lena that a 10 year old
kid was trapped in the beat
list
and wanted out,(she is 11) she was interested and i encouraged her
to
write.
We have
duel puter set up side by side, she is on trekie lists and knick
lists. She had a great time with the plymell visit,
she has a great
time a
lot.
The
site with the single word at a time is
http://www.buchenroth.com/cplymell.html
click
on the kansas poem , it is a unique site. our house is hitting it
often,
every one here laughed when they read charly's remark about
conversation
going on when he saw it here, i am a motor mouth.
Lena
has visited williams house a couple of times and thinks of it as a
wonderful
cat haven with real interesting art. Alas most of my writing
friends
houses are very boring for her in comparison. She notices art
more
than me, ( and i love his art, have since i first saw it) she
remembers
details.
i
posted this to the beat list, i hope this is the correct procedure.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 09:17:28 EDT
Reply-To: mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Hemenway
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: open Kerouac/Beat Photo Exhibition
Open
Photography Exhibition.
Photographers
of all ages, experience and media are invited to participate
in an
open exhibition of photographic images inspired by Jack Kerouac or
the
Beats during the 10th Annual Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival. The
exhibition
is sponsored by the Whistler House Museum of Art and Lowell
Celebrate
Kerouac! For guidelines, send a SASE
to Beat Exhibition, 243
Worthen
St, Lowell, MA 01852.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 09:02:10 +0000
Reply-To: jhasbro@tezcat.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: JWHasbrouck
<jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>
Subject: Spring '53
Regarding
the spring of 1953....
Comparing
THE YAGE LETTERS by Burroughs with Ginsberg I notice that the
dating
of the correspondence doesn't jive with THE SELECTED LETTERS OF
WILLIAM
S. BURROUGHS. Nor does the narrative flow. It appears that Bill
and
Allen took considerable liberty when editing TYL to achieve a
specific
effect, which they certainly did. Comparison of the two groups
of
letters has me considering the conscious myth-making tendency of the
Beats
(with which I have no problem, and, in fact, dig a lot) contrasted
to THE
FACTS.
John
Hasbrouck
Chicago