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Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 19:12:51 -0400
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: [Fwd: Message ("Your message dated
Sun, 01 Jun 1997 19:07:52...")]
This is
a multi-part message in MIME format.
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People
come and go,
and
talk of Michaelangelo.
Everything
in the world relates to Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock. ;-)
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
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Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 19:14:02 -0400
From:
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Subject: Message ("Your message dated Sun,
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To: Bentz Kirby
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Your
message dated Sun, 01 Jun 1997 19:07:52 -0400 with subject "new poem"
has
been successfully distributed to the BEAT-L list (176 recipients).
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Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 18:44:36 -0400
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From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Civil Discourse
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%97060112311552@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
at the
risk of bandwidth, just wanted to say thanks, bill.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 18:47:46 -0500
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From: "William H. Rose, III"
<schpill@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: Bill
R.
Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
>
Bill:
>
> I
am trying to back channel you. Please
send me your email address. It
>
keeps bouncing right now.
>
>
Thanks.
>
> --
>
Bentz
>
bocelts@scsn.net
>
>
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
There
are a number of Bill's on this list. My e-mail address is
Schpill@execpc.com
schpill@juno.com
schpill@aol.com
If this message was meant for me you may
contact me any time you
wish.
Bill Rose.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 19:28:46 -0600
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From: John Mitchell
<mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cranial Guitar
In-Reply-To:
<199705312305.QAA03363@italy.it.earthlink.net>
Mucho
thanks to all you who got out Kaufman's selected poems. Now I've
read
the great Intro. to Cranial Guitar, which notes that John Mitchell ran
the
Gaslight bar/saloon/ restaurant (?) in Sanfercisco 50s, camerado to
Beats
but capable of 86ing. I lived there 2
years in middle 70s, so have
some
sense of the place, my wife from San Jose, now am DeadBeat teacher in
Minneapolis. Yes, "Would You Wear My Eyes" is
real/poetry--black Rimbaud
for
true. Will write and inquire more when
I return from my two weeks
gone,
including poems flowing from reading helterskelter (I'm still grading
papers
grades due Friday last) in Cranial Guitar.
My word is a virus, but
I
advise BeatListers to check out this book if you like your Beat poetry
raw and
unstereotypical. // John M.
>At
03:20 PM 5/31/97 -0600, you wrote:
>>True
to the virus that is my word, I put on my Birkenstocks (pale feet,
>>unglued
soles at the tips) this Sat. morn and went to the Hungry Mind,
>>there
got the only copy of Cranial Guitar.
>>
>>1. Scholarly question: I had not heard of the publication until the
past
>>few
days on the BList, and the copyright date says 1996. Has the book been
>>out
for months, or just delayed in release and distribution? If out for
>>long,
why no previous reference on the BList?
>>
>>"ENGPOP,
ENGPOP, BOP, PLOLO, PLOLO, BOP, BOP."
>>
>>Bob
Kauffmann, "Crootey Songo"
>>
>>Great! Am loooking forward to loving the book (got
Solitudes Crowded with
>>Loneliness
long ago at City Lights, & have always loved the Frank O'Hara
>>type
title, Golden Sardine--just great with silver crackers and beer).
>>Thanks
to all who've helped keep this solitary Beat strumming.
>>
>>2. Scholarly (M. A.--in English!)
question: Gerry Nicosia (I love you,
>>man.),
who chose the title for these Selected Poems you edited--you,
>>Kauffmann,
who? Why, beyond the obvious, etc.?
>>
>>Then
I went across the hall to The Table of Contents to sip and browse
>>$1.25
>>plus
.09 tax
>>FRESH
ROASTED COFFEE
>>(A
BOTTOMLESS MUG OF OUR OWN BLEND)
>>when
what to my wondering eyes these lines:
>>
>>I
dreamed I went to John Mitchell's poetry party
>>in
my maidenform brain
>>
>>Holy!
Cow
>>
>>3. Scholarly question: Who is this interloper, me? (A joke; my poetry
>>always
wears bras, but I was shocked to discover it had been outted! I
>>always
knew I would be a famous Beat someday, but should have known it
>>would
not be the real me.)
>>
>>I
unsubscribe tomorrow, so please answer scholarly questions soon. (And no
>>flames,
unless scholarly marshmellows are provided.)
>>
>>John
M.
>
>Dear
John, May 31, 1997
>
> Eileen Kaufman, Bob's widow, picked
out about six or seven possible
>titles
from lines in Bob's poems. Her favorite
was "INTO CRACKLING
>BLUENESS,"
which is a Kaufman paraphrase of one of his own favorite poets,
>Lorca. But the publisher preferred "CRANIAL
GUITAR," from a poem where Bob
>says
"My head is a cranial guitar," etc.
(Forgot which poem.)
> Don't know who the John Mitchell was
that Bob refers to--surely one
>of
the many North Beach pre-Beatniks of the late 50's, and there were many.
>Maybe
I'll ask Eileen next time I see her.
> What city do you live in, anyway?
> As for no mention of it on the Beat
List, I haven't seen mention of
>Ferlinghetti's
latest either--A FAR ROCKAWAY OF THE HEART, which was just
>released
from New Directions. I haven't been a
big fan of Lawrence's recent
>stuff,
last few years, but this book IS DYNAMITE, THE BEST STUFF HE'S
>WRITTEN
IN 30-40 YEARS. There's a four-page
poem to Ezra Pound that is ONE
>OF
THE FINEST POEMS OLD LARRY HAS EVER PENNED (IMHO). A few lines:
>
> "At worst an old man's mumbled
jumble
> of erudicities and profundities
> by turns noble and incoherent
> Scatter of rain on a mansard roof
> mixed with antique gossip
> ancient Tuscan account books
> and yesterday's conversations
> A garrulous gabble of
> crackerbarrel colloquial
> cobbled into the typography of poetry
> in canti that couldn't possibly be
sung...."
>
>Here's
my favorite Kaufman poem from CRANIAL GUITAR:
>
> "My body is a torn mattress
> Disheveled throbbing place
> For the comings and goings
> Of loveless transients.
> The whole of me
> Is an unfurnished room
> FIlled with dank breath
> Escaping in gasps of nowhere.
> Before completely objective mirrors
> I have shot myself with my eyes,
> But death refused my advances.
> I have walked on my walls each night
> Through strange landscapes in my head.
> I have brushed my teeth with orange
peel,
> Iced with cold blood from the dripping
faucets.
> My face is covered with maps of dead
nations;
> My hair is littered with drying
ragweed.
> Bitter raisins drip from my nostrils
> While schools of glowing minnows swim
from my mouth.
> The nipples of my breast are
sun-browned cockleburrs;
> Long-forgotten Indian tribes fight
battles on my chest
> Unaware of the sunken ships rotting in
my stomach.
> My legs are charred remains of burned
cypress trees;
> My feet are covered with moss from
bayous, flowing across my floor.
> I can't go out anymore.
> I shall sit on my ceiling.
> Would you wear my eyes?"
>
> Tell me that's not grrrreeaaattt
poetry!
>
> Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 01:42:41 +0100
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From: "Thomas E. Harberd"
<T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dr. Destouches
In-Reply-To:
<970601153834_-1698738028@emout16.mail.aol.com>
On Sun,
1 Jun 1997, Dixon Edmiston wrote:
>
I'm new so I don't know if this has been hashed over before (pun intended),
>
but where does Celine fit in with the beats? Did he not influence JK and AG
>
and WSB to some extent? Just cu4~4>
Celine describing writers and
journalists
who boast of having abolished war:
> "They've never fucked, bucked,
hustled, muscled a damn thing! those
>
be-peacocked parakeets, not the least butt or babe, the least complicament,
>
never unfinagled, discombobbled the weakest mitigated litigation! Not a
>
thing! Never! short-sighted sleazes! Pencil-necked shitslingers!
> The fuming, destructing Furies of War
scoff at your woggish emotings to
>
the ends of hell! your silent, anathematic farting.
[snip]
I think
it was WSB who turned Kerouac and Ginsberg onto Celine when they
were at
[insert name of university which I have forgotten].
Tom H.
http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 21:00:10 -0400
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From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and
Why?
In a
message dated 97-06-01 02:00:41 EDT, you write:
<<
.just because someone wrote a book doesn't make them
instant celebrity. You will never attract
real Beat writers on this list
BECAUSE of Nicosia!!!!! >>
Happens
all the time! Wait 'till those "someones" make Clinton drop his
drawers.
Then y'all will see how the Age of Apostasy is come (has) already
fur
sure. The old news of great world powers at the bottom of a vodka glass.
"No
missiles now aimed at America." Fifty years under the symbolic phallic,
now
we're waiting to see what Paula Jones saw. What's the coming attraction?
Have to make a special police line to keep
the real beats from the list.
Make
'em feel at home y'know. (shades of Neal) I didn't stop to see the old
bus ...
Ohio has too many white cars killing the animals. And the offical
seat
belt sign read "Fasten you're seat belt. It is OUR law" I said Na,
Na,
Na, Na,
up yours and went done the road and saw that it's all going crazy. Mr
B.
agreed. Then I said it's already gone. too late. The public done took the
place
apart. Let's give Paula Jones and Bill Clinton a big hand and all sing,
"Gonna
send 'em back to Arkansaw." Any real Beats out there? I just got off
the
road and have to take a real shit.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 20:13:53 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and
Why?
Pamela
Beach Plymell wrote:
>
> In
a message dated 97-06-01 02:00:41 EDT, you write:
>
>
<< .just because someone wrote a book doesn't make them
> instant celebrity. You will never attract
real Beat writers on this list
> BECAUSE of Nicosia!!!!! >>
>
>
Happens all the time! Wait 'till those "someones" make Clinton drop
his
>
drawers. Then y'all will see how the Age of Apostasy is come (has) already
>
fur sure. The old news of great world powers at the bottom of a vodka glass.
>
"No missiles now aimed at America." Fifty years under the symbolic
phallic,
>
now we're waiting to see what Paula Jones saw. What's the coming attraction?
> Have to make a special police line to keep
the real beats from the list.
>
Make 'em feel at home y'know. (shades of Neal) I didn't stop to see the old
>
bus ... Ohio has too many white cars killing the animals. And the offical
>
seat belt sign read "Fasten you're seat belt. It is OUR law" I said
Na, Na,
>
Na, Na, up yours and went done the road and saw that it's all going crazy. Mr
> B.
agreed. Then I said it's already gone. too late. The public done took the
>
place apart. Let's give Paula Jones and Bill Clinton a big hand and all sing,
>
"Gonna send 'em back to Arkansaw." Any real Beats out there? I just
got off
>
the road and have to take a real shit.
>
Charles Plymell
welcome
back!!!!!!!!!!!!!
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 21:23:05 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: www link page
Please
work our Beat site...thanks..
http://waterrowbooks.com
Jeffrey
Weinberg
Beat-L
T-shirt organizer
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 21:26:03 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Gordon Legg
Carl -
I
haven't forgotten about G. Legge request. I'll be sending some suggestions
this
week as soon as web site bugs get worked out ...
JW
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 21:38:25 EST
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From: MORE OXY THAN MORON
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Burroughs collection
Giorno
had a crab cake with black beans, I had chesse enchildas, Grauerholtz
had
fried oysters. Everyone drank loads, except me, who filled up on black
coffee
til my ears were ringing! I forget what John Geiger had and David Ohle
too,
they were at the other end of the table.
DB
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 21:47:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: Sisyphus
<sisyphus@POLARIS.MINDPORT.NET>
Subject: Dr. Sax
In-Reply-To:
<l03020901afb7ab581605@[206.25.67.103]>
I just
joined the list. (I DO hope the petty
bickering is dying down.
I've
watched that kind of obsessive behavior for years on BBS's & the
Net,
and it's tiresome. Can you NOT get
outside your own ego?)
BUT, I
just finished reading Doctor Sax for the 3rd or 4th time. This
time
through, I was watching for bio stuff on Jack, however, as before;
I was
struck by his use of made-up words. I
seriously believe Jack had
a finer
poetic sense than he knew, and those made-up words are there
primarily
because they fit the meter of what he was writing. He NEEDED
a word
in that particular place (mostly adjectives) but nothing fit, so
he made
something up of the proper number of syllables and of sound.
This is
only MY analysis. Any comments? Please?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 21:48:43 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: MORE OXY THAN MORON
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Burroughs collection
JW,
Arizona
Stae U (in Tempe) does have a sinficant Burroughs collection but now,
Ohio
State has more. Did I mention that they offered it to Kansas State U who
turned
it down? I guess the guy who runs the special collections at OSU is
pretty
hip and was hot to trot for the collection. WSB had small flood in his
basement
so they thought it time to move the papers to higher ground! This deal
was
actually made a few yaers ago but they are just now getting around to
bringing
it up (flood prompted, I think, some of his papers did get wet). So
ASU
would be another source to check too, for Burroughs manuscripts.
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 18:55:58 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dr. Sax
Yes, Dr
Sax is a great book. What you are saying is interesting. I think
Old
Angel Midnight might be even more like this in terms of "made up"
words.
My
question is, what words are you thinking of.
I haven't read Sax in years
and
don't have a copy.
Give us
some examples. Kerouac was multilingual
and there may be more to
the
words than simple sound and syllables.
At 09:47 PM 6/1/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I
just joined the list. (I DO hope the
petty bickering is dying down.
>I've
watched that kind of obsessive behavior for years on BBS's & the
>Net,
and it's tiresome. Can you NOT get
outside your own ego?)
>
>BUT,
I just finished reading Doctor Sax for the 3rd or 4th time. This
>time
through, I was watching for bio stuff on Jack, however, as before;
>I
was struck by his use of made-up words.
I seriously believe Jack had
>a
finer poetic sense than he knew, and those made-up words are there
>primarily
because they fit the meter of what he was writing. He NEEDED
>a
word in that particular place (mostly adjectives) but nothing fit, so
>he
made something up of the proper number of syllables and of sound.
>
>This
is only MY analysis. Any comments? Please?
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 22:05:49 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dr. Destouches
In a
message dated 97-06-01 20:55:50 EDT, you write:
<<
I think it was WSB who turned Kerouac and Ginsberg onto Celine when they
were at [insert name of university which I
have forgotten].
>>
When we
first met Allen made a special trip to the bookstore to buy me
Celine's
book.
C.
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 22:04:36 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: MORE OXY THAN MORON
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and
Why?
Beauty!
That is what killed the Beat List!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 21:07:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Burroughs collection
MORE
OXY THAN MORON wrote:
>
>
JW,
>
>
Arizona Stae U (in Tempe) does have a sinficant Burroughs collection but now,
>
Ohio State has more. Did I mention that they offered it to Kansas State U who
>
turned it down? I guess the guy who runs the special collections at OSU is
>
pretty hip and was hot to trot for the collection. WSB had small flood in his
>
basement so they thought it time to move the papers to higher ground! This
deal
>
was actually made a few yaers ago but they are just now getting around to
>
bringing it up (flood prompted, I think, some of his papers did get wet). So
>
ASU would be another source to check too, for Burroughs manuscripts.
>
>
Dave B.
Kansas
State just spent their library budget for a millenium
building/expanding
the library. it is pretty. wonder what they'll put
in
it. that would have been an hour away -
i'm crying. but it would
make
more sense that it was Kansas University in burroughs' lawrence
than
kansas state.... as an alum of K.U. if they turned it down I'm
pissed. though i do have good memories of playing in
Columbus once -
many
many used record stores back then. i
might actually have to plan a
road
trip one of these days/months/years ....
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 22:13:32 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Dr. Destouches
In-Reply-To: Message of Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:38:35 -0400
from <DIXCIN@AOL.COM>
Kerouac
and Ginsberg were both influenced by Celine.
Allen even interviewed Ce
line at
one time I believe. I'm sure there are
details in the biogrpahies.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 22:13:52 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Sisyphus
<sisyphus@POLARIS.MINDPORT.NET>
Subject: Re: Dr. Sax
In-Reply-To: <199706020155.SAA18374@hsc.usc.edu>
On Sun,
1 Jun 1997, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:
>
Yes, Dr Sax is a great book. What you are saying is interesting. I think
>
Old Angel Midnight might be even more like this in terms of "made up"
words.
Well,
I've read all the Kerouac books, a couple bio's, lots of poetry,
etc. Started in the 50's. Climbing trees in the town green here in New
England
to beat on bongo drums to try to get someone to understand.
(Unfortunately,
the town cop never read any Kerouac.)
In short, I've
been
reading and re-reading this stuff for a number of years. There's
more to
it, of course; but I've always been troubled by things like "the
great
blowsy midnite of the void in this world"
(that is NOT a quote,
it's an
example) Why "blowsy"? That's not a word. But it certainly
seems
that the term is necessary to the construction/rhythm of the
sentence.
> My
question is, what words are you thinking of.
I haven't read Sax in years
>
and don't have a copy.
Well,
the foregoing is a rather tepid example, but if you'd like to get
serious
about this, I haven't shelved the book yet.
>
Give us some examples. Kerouac was
multilingual and there may be more to
>
the words than simple sound and syllables.
Gahhhhh! That was my FIRST post, after ONE day on the
list. (I grew up
in a
French-Canuk family, too. Canadian
French is part of my linguistic
heritage. Trust his translations of his own
words. They're idiomatic,
but
true.) I really think Jack was trying
to reach beyond words and
language,
hence his fascination with music and poetry.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 19:25:37 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: runner911
<babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: Who is Killing da bete
In-Reply-To: <009B5260.422969A0.128@kenyon.edu>
At 8:04
PM -0700 6/1/97, MORE OXY THAN MORON wrote:
>
Beauty! That is what killed the Beat List!
no,
blame it on Dennis Rodman. he takes it
out on the road...
Douglas
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 22:31:42 EDT
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From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Beauty
What? Jack's dog killed the list? And you all remember what Jack was doing wh
en
beauty died? Just trying to inject a
little humor folks.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 22:38:13 -0400
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From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: meeting W.S.B. to ben on 5/3/197
Comments:
To: pelliott@sunflower.com
Lena@sunflower.com:
Thanks
for (making) "me a bed right down
on the floor" as Woodie Guthrie
used to
sing. Do you know that old song? Second line "As I lay my head on a
bed on
the floor." Actually, it was for Billy, but I took it because he took
my bed
in order to watch T.V. And did you finished our popcorn? I think there
was
some gum in it. Yuk! Your cat peered at me during the night and woke me
up.
Billy and I moved the mattress back upstairs, which was harder that you
taking
it downstairs! I''ve moved a lot of floppy mattresses in my time. I
hate to
move floppy mattresses, but I guess I was born for it. Seems the cats
always
have some interest in the situation and usually get their tails
stepped
on. Your cat had to sleep right next to it and peer at me.
When we
went to see Mr. B, he stepped on his cat's tail and it screeched and
jumped
striaght up. I hate it when cats do
that. Can't they remember they
have
tails or what? Scaired the hell outta Billy and me.
Speaking
of which my cat is meowing and his tail is under my foot now. I'm
barefoot,
though.
I hope
you had a good day in school. Tell them
the painter, Bottecelli sent
you.
Charles
and Billy
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 22:47:41 -0400
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From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Tony's Story and Gerry's
Dear
Gerry:
Pam
downloaded your story about your father working the orchards and ending
up in
San Francisco in 1927. Was Sad Slim
Smith in Jack Black's You Can't
Win?
Your description sounds so close to that book.
I used to follow the
same
hobo trails with my older sister, when she wasn't working the houses.
This
was in the 50s though, and when I took underage Pam into Mike's Pool
Hall in
the early 60s it was still authentic, Caruso on the jukebox for a
dime,
red checkered tableclothes. Have you read Jack Black?
My
recent trip of what's out there now has still got me in shock. Too many
years
under the bridge. I'm glad I'm in Rip Van Winkle country.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 19:54:02 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and
Why?
Pamela Beach
Plymell wrote:
>
Any real Beats out there? I just got off
>
the road and have to take a real shit.
>
Charles Plymell
Charles,
Welcome
back. Any good scenes out on the old
road?
J
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 23:02:29 -0400
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From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs collection
Michael
Buchenroth:
Thanks
greatly for making my words jump. I saw
them at Patricia's in
Lawrence. I have more pounding in my head. I've got to talk to you about.
James
Grauerholz was leaving Lawrence with a truckload of Burroughs material.
I gave
him your e-mail. I hope he got in touch with you. I think the Sam
Shusterman
and others you word jumped worked good and I think there is a
whole
new relationship to poetry that I would like to work with you on.
Doesn't
poetry mean to build and what else to build with but words. I think
there's
something happening here and will be in touch soon. Thanks to Michael
Stutz
for turning us on to it. I think it is an interesting way to access
language
especially for people whose brains work like that. Maybe James G.'s
brain
will begin to work like that if he listens to the trucker's CB's out of
Chicago
and Columbus! I didn't ask him how big a rig he was driving to
Columbus.
I started to ask him if it was an 18 wheeler.
How many archives
would
that hold?
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 23:16:40 -0400
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From: Leitha Sackmann
<lsackma@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>
Subject: Re: a different thread
At
12:27 PM 6/1/97 -0400, Paul Maher wrote:
>No
more will I mention a thing...
>
>How
do people feel about Part 3 of Visions of Cody? "Frisco: The Tape":
>Does
it add or detract from the book? I feel that Kerouac's writing in the
>first
two parts, the realization of his spontaneous prose method, is pure,
>driven
genius. The addition of tape transcripts however changes the focus of
>the
vision of Cody.....but I don't know if it gives him any new
>dimension...Any
takes on this?
>
What's
this? A real discussion--YAY!
Hmmm...well,
i think the idea of the transcription really adds to the book,
but the
reality of the 100+ pages of dialogue does detract a little from the
continuity
of the novel. _Kerouac's Crooked Road_
by Tim Hunt is a
wonderful
critique of VoC and it gives many reasons for the necessity of the
transcription. The tape recorder is an attempt to find
something objective
in
life. The conversations are a
confrontation between the image of Cody
that
jack has produced in the first two Parts and the reality of Cody that
is
appearing now. Cody becomes less
visionary than the original image was.
(all
this is paraphrasing of Hunt). i
actually skipped the tape section
when i
read VoC for the first time. There are
some really interesting
parts,
but as a whole it lacks Kerouac's prose which is what amazes me about
the
rest of the novel. The tapes are almost
a precursor to some Warhol-type
ideas. I would say that the tapes do give a new
vision of Cody in that they
remove
Jack's conception of Cody as the ideal American man (kind of). The
real
Cody is still amazing but not quite as amazing as the Cody that is the
hero of
Jack's imagination.
-matt
*****************************************************************
"Everyone
takes the limits of his own vision
for the limits of the world."
Arthur
Schopenhauer
*****************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 23:17:10 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and
Why?
Pamela
Beach Plymell wrote:
> In
a message dated 97-06-01 02:00:41 EDT, you write:
>
>
<< .just because someone wrote a book doesn't make them
> instant celebrity. You will never attract
real Beat writers on this
>
list
> BECAUSE of Nicosia!!!!! >>
>
>
Happens all the time! Wait 'till those "someones" make Clinton drop
>
his
>
drawers. Then y'all will see how the Age of Apostasy is come (has)
>
already
>
fur sure. The old news of great world powers at the bottom of a vodka
>
glass.
>
"No missiles now aimed at America." Fifty years under the symbolic
>
phallic,
>
now we're waiting to see what Paula Jones saw. What's the coming
>
attraction?
> Have to make a special police line to keep
the real beats from the
>
list.
>
Make 'em feel at home y'know. (shades of Neal) I didn't stop to see
>
the old
>
bus ... Ohio has too many white cars killing the animals. And the
>
offical
>
seat belt sign read "Fasten you're seat belt. It is OUR law" I said
> Na,
Na,
>
Na, Na, up yours and went done the road and saw that it's all going
>
crazy. Mr
> B.
agreed. Then I said it's already gone. too late. The public done
>
took the
>
place apart. Let's give Paula Jones and Bill Clinton a big hand and
>
all sing,
>
"Gonna send 'em back to Arkansaw." Any real Beats out there? I just
>
got off
>
the road and have to take a real shit.
>
Charles Plymell
Charles:
Is it
possible to define a real shit. I mean
some would say that Oliver
North
is one. Others say that he is an
AMERICAN hero for lying to
Congress
and shredding documents sought by lawful subpenis. Then they
want to
subpenis Clinton? The question is, will
Hillary shred the
evidence,
or maybe hide it in a Bobbit file till after the trial?
Some
people say that Andrew Jackson is a real AMERICAN hero because he
killed
a bunch of redcoats AFTER the damn war was over. Maybe, others
would
say that he was a real shit for disenfranchising the Seminole
Indians
and destroying their life cause we white boys wanted Florida
now.
How do
you define a real shit. Hard, diarreah,
long, little balls, and
what
about Jackie O, did she even shit, or fart.
What if you were at a
dinner
party and Jackie O farted, would you stike a match and say, hey
girl
lets light that thing next time. If you
did would Trumane Capote
think
you were a real shit.
I don't
know about this real thing anymore.
We live
in a world of zero tolerence. If a kid
that works at Best Buy
brings
a box cutter to school because he forgot to leave it in his car.
Hell,
expell him, take away his graduation, file criminal charges, and
then
pat ourselves on the back and say, we are some real fine AMERICANS
and we
are the REAL SHITS of this world.
I mean
this is just a thought I had, and I don't even know what it
means,
Charles, can you explain this shit to me?
It is REAL SHIT isn't
it??
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 23:28:21 -0400
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From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: On the Old Road
Comments:
To: stauffer@pacbell.net
In a
message dated 97-06-01 23:00:10 EDT, you write:
<<
Any good scenes out on the old road? >>
oh god,
I'm still in shock. It would take a book, hee hee. I think things
are speeding
up again and you know whut/ It's over the edge.. Two or three
places
remain: A One Building town in highlands of Montana, a hotel in New
Mexico
with Billy the Kid's, Jesse James room et al. and holes still shot in
the
ceiling. And an onery old man in a Sears Robuck house in Kansas who still
has
sparks in his space eyes, who always asks such proper questions they have
a way
of sounding odd. "Why did they shoot at the ceiling?" "Hell, I
don't
know."
"I hope their was no one on the second floor." A chuckle.
BTW
Thanks for the Zap. I haven't had time to look at the mail yet, but I'll
be
going thru it in days to come. I'll be sending some snail. I still have a
lovely
letter from Glenn I have to answer. I wish he'd get on the list.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 23:31:12 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs collection
In a
message dated 97-06-01 23:06:55 EDT, you write:
<<
but it would
make more sense that it was Kansas University
in burroughs' lawrence
than kansas state.... as an alum of K.U. if
they turned it down I'm
pissed. >>
Yeh,
they didn't know what they had with Terrence Williams (librarian in the
60s and
70s). BTW, McCrary that Williams had taken over the dry out tank in
Minnesota.
Charles
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 23:07:24 -0500
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From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: meeting W.S.B. to ben on 5/3/197
Pamela
Beach Plymell wrote:
>
>
Lena@sunflower.com:
>
Thanks for (making) "me a bed
right down on the floor" as Woodie Guthrie
>
used to sing. Do you know that old song? Second line "As I lay my head on
a
>
bed on the floor." Actually, it was for Billy, but I took it because he
took
> my
bed in order to watch T.V. And did you finished our popcorn? I think there
>
was some gum in it. Yuk! Your cat peered at me during the night and woke me
>
up. Billy and I moved the mattress back upstairs, which was harder that you
>
taking it downstairs! I''ve moved a lot of floppy mattresses in my time. I
>
hate to move floppy mattresses, but I guess I was born for it. Seems the cats
>
always have some interest in the situation and usually get their tails
>
stepped on. Your cat had to sleep right next to it and peer at me.
>
When we went to see Mr. B, he stepped on his cat's tail and it screeched and
>
jumped striaght up. I hate it when cats
do that. Can't they remember they
>
have tails or what? Scaired the hell outta Billy and me.
>
Speaking of which my cat is meowing and his tail is under my foot now. I'm
>
barefoot, though.
> I
hope you had a good day in school. Tell
them the painter, Bottecelli sent
>
you.
>
Charles and Billy
it
sounds like a wonderful place to rest a weary little head. i'm
looking
forward to doing so this weekend.
i knew
i'd missed your words on my computer screen - but didn't realized
how
much until they started flowing again.
too bad
the Peters thing fell through. I hope
you bought a nice Hat in
Wichita.
take
care,
david
rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 21:22:48 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: a different thread
At
12:27 PM 6/1/97 -0400, you wrote:
>No
more will I mention a thing...
>
>How
do people feel about Part 3 of Visions of Cody? "Frisco: The Tape":
>Does
it add or detract from the book? I feel that Kerouac's writing in the
>first
two parts, the realization of his spontaneous prose method, is pure,
>driven
genius. The addition of tape transcripts however changes the focus of
>the
vision of Cody.....but I don't know if it gives him any new
>dimension...Any
takes on this?
>
>
getting
onto this a bit late, however, it's what makes the whole book tick,
don't
you think? maybe what the thing is all
about? isn't this the vision
he is
speaking of prior? maybe I'm a fool,
but that's my hit. after all,
the
book is called Visions of Cody (Neal).
all the
best
xxxooo
s.a.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 00:19:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Site I found
I just
found this site at Cal-Berkeley on the beats.
Does anyone know
if
UMASS of Lowell has a web site?
Peace,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 21:48:16 -0700
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From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Other biographies of Kerouac
June 1, 1997
Dear
Beat-List friends:
I returned from a holiday down in
Monterey, a birthday party for one
of my
daughter's friends, to find that a personal threat had been sent to me
on my
private email, by one of the persons from the Beat-List who has been
steadily
harassing me for the past month.
I will report this threat to the FBI
tomorrow, and suggest that that
person,
as well as the people he has been associating with recently, be
thoroughly
investigated.
Little did I suspect such things lay
in wait for me when I joined
the
Beat-List!
However, there has been a great deal
of satisfaction as
well--learning
from others and sharing my own learning--this is one of the
things
I live for.
One of the recent charges against me
concerns the new Kerouac
biographies
that are now appearing, especially the one to come soon from Mr.
Ellis
Amburn. The charge is that I fear these
biographies.
On the contrary, I welcome them. I have cooperated with every major
writer
who has come to me for information about Kerouac. In fact, I try to
answer
questions from every single student who writes or calls me--but the
truth
is, there are many of these, and I don't always have time. But I try.
I cooperated with Steven Turner during
the writing of his book
ANGELHEADED
HIPSTER, and he thanks me profusely in his book. I would gladly
have
cooperated with Ellis Amburn, only he never came to me. I was told,
from a
source in Lowell, that Mr. Amburn was warned not to contact me.
It puzzles me, in fact, that Mr.
Amburn did not make use of the
MEMORY
BABE archive at U Mass, Lowell, since he began his book BEFORE my
archive
was closed.
FOR ANYONE WITH A LITTLE SENSE, IT
SHOULD BE CLEAR THAT BY FIGHTING
TO MAKE
MY OWN MEMORY BABE ARCHIVE ACCESSIBLE ONCE AGAIN, AND BY FIGHTING TO
SEE
THAT JACK KEROUAC'S OWN ARCHIVE IS MADE ACCESSIBLE, I AM TRYING TO HELP,
NOT
HINDER, FUTURE KEROUAC SCHOLARS AND BIOGRAPHERS.
The worst thing that could befall
future Kerouac biographers would
be that
they are kept from seeing any original Kerouac material.
The 300 interviews I did with 300
people who knew Kerouac are
extremely
precious, and would be tremendously helpful to any would-be
Kerouac
biographer. 100 of those people are
already dead and cannot be
re-interviewed. One of the 300 just died a week ago--Jay
Pendergast.
I am fighting to see that those 300
interviews (and all the other
material
in the MEMORY BABE archive) are made available again to these
would-be
biographers--either in Lowell or, if necessary, another library.
I am also fighting to see that
Kerouac's own papers are available to
scholars
and would-be biographers. THE BEST WAY FOR
A FUTURE BIOGRAPHER TO
"BEAT"
MEMORY BABE WOULD BE TO STUDY AND MAKE USE OF THE THOUSANDS OF
DOCUMENTS
FROM JACK KEROUAC'S OWN ARCHIVE--DOCUMENTS I NEVER HAD ACCESS TO.
If I really wanted to see MEMORY BABE
remain the "best" Kerouac
biography,
I'd be happy to see Mr. Sampas dispersing the Kerouac archive, so
that no
future writer could see the whole thing, and I'd be happy that no
"competition"
could get in to hear my 300 taped interviews.
Doesn't that make sense?
SO, ODD AS IT MAY SEEM, MR. SAMPAS AND
I ARE IN AGREEMENT IN HOPING
THAT
MEMORY BABE WILL SOON BE SURPASSED.
The way we differ is this: Mr. Sampas
believes he alone should pick
the
writer that will beat MEMORY BABE; and so he gives only one or two or
three
chosen people (who meet his specifications) the right to look at Jack
Kerouac's
archive of private papers. And by doing
so, he believes he will
help
create a championship book.
I say, YOU DON'T KNOW WHO THE NEXT
GREAT KEROUAC BIOGRAPHER WILL BE,
AND
THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE TO OPEN ACCESS TO THE KEROUAC ARCHIVE TO EVERYONE.
How does he know that some unknown kid
out in Idaho or Iowa or
Detroit
might not have the right combination of intelligence, empathy,
scholarship,
and intuition to write the next great Kerouac biography? HOW
CAN HE
BE SURE IT IS ONLY THE ONE OR TWO OR THREE PEOPLE HE HAS CHOSEN TO
SHOW
THE ARCHIVE TO THAT ARE THE SURE WINNERS?
Among the great literary biographies
of this century are Richard
Ellmann's
JAMES JOYCE; Mark Schorer's SINCLAIR LEWIS; and Leon Edel's HENRY
JAMES. None of those biographers was
"chosen" by a literary executor as the
right
man to do the job. All of them took on
their task out of a strong
passion
for their subject; all of them were self-motivated.
John Sampas cannot create the next
Richard Ellmann or Mark Schorer
or Leon
Edel just by willing it to happen. The
best way for him to see that
such a
person appears--in the arena of Kerouac biographies--is for him to
make
all of Kerouac's papers available to every serious, credentialed writer
who
needs to use them. And also for him to
retract his threat against the
MEMORY
BABE archive at U Mass, Lowell.
--Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 00:45:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Poem from 3 months ago
About
three months ago, I read a Poem by Hondo Crouch about Luckenback
TX. As a result, I wrote this which is an
obvious rip off of Upon
Looking
into Jr.s Homer, I mean, Chapman's homer.
This is
draft 2 of a work in progress. Somebody
said please post some
poetry
and real shit. If this ain't it, let me
know and I will stop.
Texas ain't Nothing to Me
(Upon reading Luchenbach Moon by
Hondo Crouch)
Lots of
people talk about Texas like it is alive or something.
I mean,
hell, I been down there and it don't seem so special to me.
I can
drive about two miles from my house in South Kakalaki,
Get on
I-20 and drive right straight to Dallas.
Hoss, I
been down there.
Been to
Dallas, Houston and Corpus Christi,
(The
body of Christ).
When I
was in Corpus Christi, I knew this girl,
And man
she was beautiful.
But,
she thought she was a surfer.
(Wanted
to listen to "Caroline, No")
Man,
Folly Beach has got better waves than that!
Texas
ain't so big.
Plus,
we ain't too happy up here with ole Phil Gramm.
I mean
he goes up to Washington and preaches all this budget stuff,
And
what does he do, tries to build a big ass accelerator ain't nobody
needs.
To top
that off, he builds some navy bases nobody needs,
Probably
close to Beaumont, and takes everything out of Charleston.
Then he
comes here wanting us to vote for him.
Yeah, right!
Nah,
all I remember about Texas is that if you don't
Wear
sunglasses in Houston, then you can't see cause
Of all
the glass buildings reflecting the sun.
And all
I remember about Dallas is that
They is
real jealous of Houston.
No,
there was one more thing.
When I
stayed at the Plaza or something like that,
They
was having a photo session during happy hour,
And
that Nunn fellow was right, pretty women.
I just
remember miles and miles of highway.
And
then to top it off, I had to go through Lake Charles.
Man, I
can't figure Robbie Robertson.
That's
for sure.
Another
thing I know about Texas is that it is contradictory.
I mean
Tejas means friends and that is their nickname,
But
their State bird is the Mockingbird.
Ain't
no meaner bird, ever see one get after a cat?
Light
that mother up!
Contradicting
themselves and a mocking the rest of us.
That's
the way I see it.
Nah,
there's some more stuff I know about Texas.
Jack
Jack Walker ain't from there,
But he
might as well be.
And
there's a whole lot of people who come
Down
there that make some awful fine music.
Some
of em get credit and some of em don't.
Yeah,
they make some good music down there all right.
But
that ain't nothing new.
And it
seems that I remember that one of our South Kakalaki
Boys
was down there at that Alamo thing with his running mate,
Davey
Crockett when those boys put up a good fight.
Can't
ever remember if it was Bowie or Travis though.
And I
think a bunch of our boys went down there after the war,
Cause
people from round here ain't too good at giving up.
Sometimes
that's good and sometimes that's bad.
I guess
there's probably too much South Carolina down there.
That's
probably what always makes me want
To get
back to the Midlands here.
In 2
hours, I can either be at the beach,
Or up
in the Mountains, the Blue Ridge boys.
And
there are some mean ass white boy hillbillies up round
Cleveland
and Wahalla. Mean boys. But they leave you
Alone
as long as you show them the same courtesy.
And in
2 and = hours, boys, I can be on the white water.
Yeah,
Texas is ok. And I guess that
friendship
And
Mockingbirds can coexist.
And I
guess that I ain't ever been out to El Capitan,
And I
would like to see that.
And I
ain't never been to Austin, El Paso (the ghost of
Marty
Robbins lives there I'm told), or lots of other places.
So, I
might just go back some time.
Yeah I
might.
But
hell, I done been to Texas,
And it
don't mean nothing to me.
Guess
home is where the heart is.
And
rambling can take you lots of places,
But
home generally ain't one of them.
So, I
tip my hat to that great lady, Tejas,
But
South Carolina is the place for me.
And it
ain't so bad.
Why we
got some great golf courses.
But
I'll tell you one thing,
I ain't
going to Beaumont if I can help it.
So, I
just gonna sit right here and
Wait on
Jacky Jack to make it on down
To
Beaufort town.
See ya
then folks.
See ya
then.
Oh
yeah, there's one more thing,
I guess
I ain't never seen that Luckenback moon,
But I
felt the shivers.
Yo,
Hondo done got me right,
I will
come on back to Tejas,
At
least for one moon light night.
Bentz
Kirby
) 1997
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 00:46:57 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: www page
If
anyone is interested, I have finished round one of revisions and the
Beat
link page is in gear.
Check
it out if you want, and send me new url's.
Thanks,
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 01:17:47 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ginsberg memorial
Hey
Matt,
Don't
know if anyone ever commented on your note about the Ginsberg Memorial
as
everyone has been ducking for cover the last few days, diving behind
stagecoaches
and jumping into water troughs to avoid getting shot, but I for
one
absolutely _loved_ that piece.
It's
neat that Natalie Merchant appreciated your comment that her song had an
impact
on your life. And I thought the story
about Allen inscribing Howl
with a
"Jaded? Hardly." along with a bathroom stall drawing was hilarious.
The
cops pulling you over was pretty funny too, although my heart was racing
for you
so I bet it was only fun after it was over.
Nice
story.
ALSO,
we all have our own issues with our moms (Gee, do you think Allen or
Jack or
Neal had any issues there?), but your mom's sig file is pretty
cool... "Everyone takes the limits of his own
vision for the limits of the
world".
Jerry
Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 22:14:24 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and
Why?
June 1, 1997
TY
wrote:
>
> to do so is a crime against the writer.
if i had even the slightest
>suspicion
that notes, sketches, drafts, anything i'd written and not
>willingly
offered to the public as a whole would be rummaged through
>after
my death, i'd burn them before i kicked. we're living in a time
>when,
especially in the u.s., everything is talked about, reported on,
>analyzed
and exposed for everyone to look at under their cracked $2
>microscopes.
it's unfortunate really; the self-deceptive reason for this
>trend
seems to be a search for absolute truths, which is a waste of time
>in
itself.
.... so
what if someone
>slanders
you? take it in stride and shrug it off like so many
>mosquitoes
Dear
TY:
Jack Kerouac is on record in several
places, including a letter to
John
Clellon Holmes, in June, 1962, saying that he has filed all his papers
in file
drawers as "a goldmine of information for scholars," and that he
wanted
future biographers to have access to them.
Should we not respect his
wishes?
As for "taking in stride" a
systematic campaign of verbal abuse, the
most
vile insults and accusations, every day for a month--well, like the
Indians
used to say, "walk a mile in my moccassins and then come back and
talk to
me."
The things that have been done to me
have been done for a particular
reason--to
silence me--just as the personal threat I received backchannel
tonight
was sent to silence me. This is not the
kind of thing that one
"shrugs
off" lightly.
Yours for the truth, Gerald Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 03:30:57 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "P.A.Maher" <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and
Why?
At
10:14 PM 6/1/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
June 1, 1997
>TY
wrote:
>>
>> to do so is a crime against the writer.
if i had even the slightest
>>suspicion
that notes, sketches, drafts, anything i'd written and not
>>willingly
offered to the public as a whole would be rummaged through
>>after
my death, i'd burn them before i kicked. we're living in a time
>>when,
especially in the u.s., everything is talked about, reported on,
>>analyzed
and exposed for everyone to look at under their cracked $2
>>microscopes.
it's unfortunate really; the self-deceptive reason for this
>>trend
seems to be a search for absolute truths, which is a waste of time
>>in
itself.
>....
so what if someone
>>slanders
you? take it in stride and shrug it off like so many
>>mosquitoes
>
>Dear
TY:
> Jack Kerouac is on record in several
places, including a letter to
>John
Clellon Holmes, in June, 1962, saying that he has filed all his papers
>in
file drawers as "a goldmine of information for scholars," and that he
>wanted
future biographers to have access to them.
Should we not respect his
>wishes?
> As for "taking in stride" a
systematic campaign of verbal abuse, the
>most
vile insults and accusations, every day for a month--well, like the
>Indians
used to say, "walk a mile in my moccassins and then come back and
>talk
to me."
> The things that have been done to me
have been done for a particular
>reason--to
silence me--just as the personal threat I received backchannel
>tonight
was sent to silence me. This is not the
kind of thing that one
>"shrugs
off" lightly.
> Yours for the truth, Gerald Nicosia
>There
you go...the paranoid delusion.....my "threat" was to counteract your
"critical"
biography with a series of academic treatises that will both take
issue
with and validate my argument against your thesis'. This will
encompass
a privately published pamphlet in which I will show my work. That
is what
I meant by "not on the Beat-L" that I will pursue my actions. What a
jerk!
Knock yourself out Nicosia....sincerely Paul..."the mercenary thug".
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 05:40:19 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Estate Potatoe War (with an E)
First,
I want to state that I am glad there is a venue like BEAT-L where a
public
forum could be held on the estate discussion. What happens to Jack's
papers
is important to many people, and I'm happy for the opportunity to
discuss
it and hear other people's opinion. It is also good because people's
statements
are on public record as to where they stand on issues. This way
everybody
hears what everybody said about who, and how it was said. Private
posts
would have allowed for more insinuation with no opportunity for
response.
Second:
I'm sorry that people who were not interested in this discussion had
to be
innundated with it, but it seems like it is almost over.
Third:
My personal desire is to see the Kerouac's papers end up in an
institution
where they would be available for study and review. However,
there
is no ONE person who represents me in this purpose, nor is there one
person
out there who I feel is the person who should be the spokesperson on
this
issue (even if they did write a biography). There is more then one
person
in the world who wishes to see the archives end up in a public
institution.
Next:
Just wondering. Suppose Person A is discussing something with Person B,
and asks
Person B to prove something. And Person B proves it by using an
excerpt
from a letter written by Person A. And
Person A's response is that
they
are going to sue for Libel, slander, and copyright infringement. Does
anybody
find that a little unusual?
Next:
Yet Person A goes around making all sorts of claims without any proof
and
keeps repeating them over and over (such as who is working for who). Many
of
these claims are incorrect, yet this doesn't stop Person A from stating
them or
repeating then.
Next:
Should all parties of a discussion be held to the same standards of
behaviour
when it comes to argument or discussion?
The answer is yes UNLESS
a party
claims that they are operating on a higher standard of behaviour and
are
using that as part of their argument. If a party claims that they are
operating
under higher standards of behaviour, then I believe it is
acceptable
to put that party to a higher level of scrutiny.
Next:
Why do I bother to post on this issue? Because the issue seems to have
evolved
into a contest - us vs. them, that has separated everybody onto one
side or
the other. This is not a contest. There are more then two sides to
this
issue. I am not an us or them. I am not a number. And I refuse to be
defined
by somebody else's definition. My basic
statement is this: Support
of a
particular issue does not require the support of any particular person
espousing
that issue. They are two separate issues. My lack of support for a
particular
person does not diminish in any way my support for a particular
issue.
Nor do I believe that support for a particular person indicates that
one is
more dedicated to that issue (such of
the preservation of the Kerouac
archives).
Last:
The above is all my biased opinions and observations.
Extra
Credit: This is an extra credit question for somebody who has way too
much
time on their hands, and way too much of an twisted interest in this
topic: Determine the total number of times the
various parties to the estate
discussion
have used: a) name calling; b) SHOUTING; c) put downs; d)
expletives
deleted. Please break it down by person, time of day, excuse
given,
air temperature, and wind velocity. Please draw your own conclusions.
Please
use a #2 pencil, no talking, you may begin now.
so it
goes, Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 06:13:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: jeff/water row/cranial guitar
In-Reply-To:
<l03020900afb7ce8cd095@[141.224.144.84]>
jeff:
copies
in stock?
price?
thanks.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 05:11:55 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: meeting W.S.B. to ben on 5/3/197
Thanks
for the letter!
Hi,
I had a
great day at school,
But it
is now summer so I AM FREE of the horrible place of work!
Oh my I
am sorry about the bed thing.
I wish
I could jump on it right now!
I am
having a pretty great day!
Remeber
I am younge if the song is old how could I rember it?
I wish
you could have seen Sue (the beast we call our cat) today she was
nice to
the little baby that lives next door it was so cute but then she
became
unhappy and left the area and the baby tried to fellow her it was
not a
pertty picture, it was geting ugly when the cat batted at her so
mom
picked up the Marget(the little baby) and lead her away for the cat,
and to
the girl swing on the rope. I think she was safer next to the
swing
girl not our cat! That peers at people while they sleep.
Oh, and
thanks for the dove bar I ate it on a field trip, lunch.
Well I
loved meeting you, you are very interesting. All though I talked
to
Billy alitlly more then you I think you both are really great people.
I do
not know what to say. I liked meeting you and bye it is time for my
mom to
get back on her computer.
Lena
P.S.Why
did you e-mail my mom and not me?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 06:16:09 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Burroughs collection
In-Reply-To: <009B525C.99AA5EE0.20@kenyon.edu>
db!
thankyou
for menu.
btw how
was the rest of evening?
thanks
for the smile..
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 06:27:21 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: list in fighting and fbi
In-Reply-To:
<199706020448.VAA14566@norway.it.earthlink.net>
mr
nicosia:
i know
you are greatly vexed. but to call in the fbi is just too much for me.
these
guys dont just go after the one, which will mean all of list shall be
open to
said agents.
they
will be readin all; much talk here has been about 'relaxing' with
mother
nature.
this is
reaching the heights of wagnerian opera,
this
tempest in a teapot.
i've
had enough in my time of tapped phones and the like.
they
wont just investigate a few fellows.
i dont
want them reading my mail.
so this
may be a sign off.
bill,
dont unsub me. i'll do it myself when i see just how this is going.
sadly,
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 03:55:34 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: humor on the list
In-Reply-To: <33923B35.8CE12D63@scsn.net>
>
>Is
it possible to define a real shit. I
mean some would say that Oliver
>North
is one. Others say that he is an
AMERICAN hero for lying to
>Congress
and shredding documents sought by lawful subpenis Then they
^^^^^^^^
>want
to subpenis Clinton? The question is,
will Hillary shred the
^^^^^^^^
>evidence,
or maybe hide it in a Bobbit file till after the trial?
am i
the only one who finds it amusing that a lawyer spells subpeona's as
"subpenis'?
or is
it because its 4am
and ive
had wayyyyyyy too much caffine
and my
mouth is dry from too many cigarettes?
or
among other things?
ttfn.
lisa
--
Lisa M. Rabey Computer Consultant UIN: 1231211
************************************************************
words...1000's of words.. wrapped
together like wire
how easy it would be to
hate you
and yet that is all i can
show you -me
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye mirror->
http://www.interlog.com/~lisa
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 06:00:27 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: threats
If i
got a veiled threat, on private e-mail, after the acrimony shown by
many on
this list, I would take it serious. After gerry warns the guy
that he
would not take that crap, the guy admits that it was him but
that he
was paronoid because what he really meant was uh something else
man,
oh, we
were talking about soemthing else finally and then you pulled one
more
thing to make this fight go on. paul why tell us, tell gerry what
you
really meant, better yet...
the person
who wrote this message is a real person who uses one of the
many
names that really belong to her, and i will stand up for honor,
honesty,
and giving a shit no matter
patricia,
even
though i am beginning to like the name fatty patty, if it means
that i
stand for talking about issues and that bothers the sniveling
cowards
that need to spew hate and nastiness into any environment they
can
intrude in.
A great
man once said, never call the police unless you have some idea
of what
they will do if they come, and its what you want them to do.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 04:22:46 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: things to do while waiting for you
beat-l mail to download
In-Reply-To:
<199706020448.VAA14566@norway.it.earthlink.net>
dear
friends, members, countrymen et al.
since i
caused a ruckus a week or two back with what i had to say, instead
of
calming things down, it seems ot have gotten worse. I then went away to
baycon
last weekend (nothing beats stress then drinking with klingions!),
come
home to find more mail. Gone 36 hours tops and close to 300 messages
from
the beat-l ALONE came through.
I
purposely didn't reply to any, and let it back up. all week.
nothing
changed.
we got
the kids still fighting over things that have been blown out of
proportion
so badly that the original arguments have long been delted. new
voices
have stepped in, old voices have left. some just unsubscribed for
the
hell of it. bill steps in. we have a renegade lawyer who first stepped
up as
to quill the battle, and now sends us pages upon pages of his poetry
and
denies responsiblity. we've got people who are seriously trying to talk
about
beat stuff, but yet it still keeps going on. the war. people are
fleeing.
ego's are getting out of hand.
the
participants (me included) are just as bad for putting out two cents
in. you
get hurt when you try to care.
so i
came up with a list of things to do while we await the end of the battle:
Things
to I do while waiting for my beat-l mail downloads:
1.
check other email accounts.
2. call
old friends on the phone
3.
write poetry
4. work
on my website
5. get
pissed off because the ftp server is down and i can't update my website
6. do
my nails
7.
fight with significant other
8. make
out with significant other
9.
search the web for interesting places
10.
clean off my harddrive
11.
check to see if mail is done downloading (nope!)
12.
torture the cat for digging his nails into my thighs
13.
torture bf for sending me email when he sits 4 feet from me
14.
check to see if mail is done yet (nope!)
15.
geton irc and harass people there.
16.
paint my nails an interesting color
17.
measure the living room for new carpte
18.
check to see if mail is done yet (nope!)
19. do
laundry
20.
finish college
21.
save the world
23.
write a best selling book
24. get
involved in a few reletionships
25.
check mail again ITS DONE!
(this
is humor folks. it doesn't really take that long for the mail to
download)
disclaim
sadness that i had to search inbetween all the clutter to find the
goodposts.
Neat sites malcs and jeffrey (when are you going to have the
content
pages up?!?!?) good conversation maybe.
then
this:
At
09:48 PM 6/1/97 -0700, you wrote:
> June 1, 1997
>Dear
Beat-List friends:
> I returned from a holiday down in
Monterey, a birthday party for one
>of
my daughter's friends, to find that a personal threat had been sent to me
>on
my private email, by one of the persons from the Beat-List who has been
>steadily
harassing me for the past month.
> I will report this threat to the FBI
tomorrow, and suggest that that
>person,
as well as the people he has been associating with recently, be
>thoroughly
investigated.
> Little did I suspect such things lay
in wait for me when I joined
>the
Beat-List!
Mr
nicosia:
this is
not to be malicious, but email threats do not fall under the fbi
juristdictions.
sorry to break it to you. the most you can do is report the
person
to their isp and have the system admins take care of it. And they
will
tell you the most you can do is a: not reply to the person (no matter
how
BADLY YOU WANT TO) and save the mail for further use (if the person
continues,
you have a documented case) or just simply delete it. Even if
the
person made a death threat, its the same as a harassing phone call,
falling
under the communications jurisdictions. Just ignore it. If its one
threat,
then your through with the person forever. if not, then you take it
to the
isp they belong to, and again, show them the email they sent. If
they
continue to be persistant, they system adminstrator at BEST will
disable
their account. Majority of the time, the threats are empty as to
scare
the person (being you).
And to
anyone worried baout someone reading their email, i hate to break it
to you
again, but email is not a safe means of communication. Anyone with a
bit of
technical knowledge can read your email. The only sure sign is by
encrypting
it with PGP (pretty good privacy), so its best to never say
anything
in email you wouldn't say on the phone. Nothing is secure in our
cyber
world. No matter how much you want to believe it, nothing is safe
ehre in
the cyber world. we are all naked and vulnerable as a new born babe.
Your
message dated Mon, 02 Jun 1997 03:55:34 -0700 with subject "humor on
the list" has been successfully
distributed to the BEAT-L list
(176
recipients).
and
again, the list has been under 200 for some time. and its getting
dangerously
low.
so
please, for the sake of whose a rat and whose not. can those involved in
the
politics take it somewhere like privately? before there is nothing left
of this
list anymore?
ttfn.
lisa
--
Lisa M. Rabey Computer Consultant
UIN: 1231211
************************************************************
words...1000's of words.. wrapped
together like wire
how easy it would be to
hate you
and yet that is all i can
show you -me
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
mirror->
http://www.interlog.com/~lisa
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 06:57:04 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: humor on the list
Lisa M.
Rabey wrote:
>
>
>
>
>Is it possible to define a real shit.
I mean some would say that Oliver
>
>North is one. Others say that he is
an AMERICAN hero for lying to
>
>Congress and shredding documents sought by lawful subpenis Then they
> ^^^^^^^^
>
>want to subpenis Clinton? The
question is, will Hillary shred the
> ^^^^^^^^
>
>evidence, or maybe hide it in a Bobbit file till after the trial?
>
> am
i the only one who finds it amusing that a lawyer spells subpeona's as
>
"subpenis'?
> or
is it because its 4am
>
and ive had wayyyyyyy too much caffine
>
and my mouth is dry from too many cigarettes?
> or
among other things?
>
>
ttfn.
>
>
lisa
> --
>
> Lisa M. Rabey Computer Consultant
UIN: 1231211
>
************************************************************
> words...1000's of words.. wrapped
together like wire
> how easy it would be to
hate you
> and yet that is all i can show you -me
>
>
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
mirror->
>
http://www.interlog.com/~lisa
my
impression was the spelling was deliberate.
of course, the rationale
for
this deliberate decision may rest deeply imbedded somewhere in his
or our
collective psyches.
david
rhaesa
salina,
Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 06:59:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: threats
Patricia
Elliott wrote:
>
> A
great man once said, never call the police unless you have some idea
> of
what they will do if they come, and its what you want them to do.
Sounds
like words of advice from a wise sage.
david
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 08:45:38 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Burroughs collection
Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
>
db!
>
thankyou for menu.
>
btw how was the rest of evening?
>
thanks for the smile..
> mc
I
appreciate hearing about the food, I found it interesting the number
of
people the list has helped to become better acquainted, the beat-l
multigeneration
has expanded my understanding of the literature and the
people.
p
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:51:48 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Fred Bogin
<FDBBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Organization:
Brooklyn College Library
Subject: List changes
Hi
folks,
Excuse
me while I pull on my hip boots to wade in here.
Effective
immediately, all replies to postings on beat-l will go to the
original
sender, NOT the list, unless otherwise specified.
fred
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:43:06 -0400
Reply-To: "Michael L. Buchenroth"
<mike@INFINET.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Michael L. Buchenroth"
<mike@INFINET.COM>
Subject: Re: Julian Jaynes
Comments:
To: James Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>
In-Reply-To: <338F01AD.5EA1@pacbell.net>
On Fri,
30 May 1997, James Stauffer wrote:
>
Jeff Taylor wrote:
>
>
>
> Some of the people WSB mentions as having read were concerned with these
>
> questions too.....Alfred Korzybski, Julian Jaynes.....I haven't read
>
> Korzybski yet...
>
James Stauffer wrote:
> It
is nice to see someone else who has read the Jaynes book.
James I
read J Jaynes' book in 1981 and again this past spring. I agree
with cha
wholly! I have also read Korzyksi's "Science and Sanity" a few
times
initially gathering understanding for a thesis I wrote. The
International
Society for General Semantics maintains a vast resource of
other
G.S. material, if you like Korzybski. If you or anyone has
interest,
www.isgs.com will get you there. Their Quarterly, "Etc." I
consider
a necessary read to my mental energy. Lately, at times, it
arrives
a lower octane than in past, but "isn't" most fuel these days?
Christ
the DEA really has script writer's shake'n, ya cain't get shit,
anymore,
unless ya grow it yourself! It's no damn wonder those pharmacist
confuse
3 times a week or 4 times a day with all this fear about! The
propaganda
war waged upon us adipex'd, ritalin'd, redux'd, fastin'd,
Christ
hydrocordone me down here! The boy, the girl, fastin, ritalin,
dilantin,
insulin, vicodin, ES, nitro gylcerin! stroked...valium,
percocet,
darvocet, 8 bits of the octet, the server crashes, Boolean
subnet,
another damn applet, ode to the internet.. my engines a knocking,
rap'n
and tap'n need'n higher octane, increased ratio...oh increase the
octane..."Etc."
still will fill the tank, E-Prime less or not! Modern
folks'
Gods speak to them from the pumps! Green square letters flash'n
by, above
the debit, edit card insert card here, histories revealed,
kept,
brother pump fill me up! Octaneless civil obedience... their'
build'n
stick space shuttle sculptures, parades with green dinos,
Sinclairless,
Pure Oil ain't so pure if you can even find among the muck
such a
place long that yellow brick freeway, Getty bought Gulfless
society,
pray to the pump, fill er up! Jaynes' consciousness evolution
still
evolves toward who knows what the DEA will do?
Michael
L. Buchenroth
mike@buchenroth.com
www.buchenroth.com
To view
Columbus'
Electronic Literary Magazine
go to
www.buchenroth.com/magazine.html
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:07:34 -0500
Reply-To: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Review
In-Reply-To:
<970601170844_1523731933@emout18.mail.aol.com>
>Review-L
Dawn,
BookZen
is interestd in reviews. Not sure what your msg reprsents. Could
you
elaborate?
Thanks,
j grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for
items stolen from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic
& Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:28:53 -0400
Reply-To: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby
Subject: Re: humor on the list
RACE
--- wrote:
>
Lisa M. Rabey wrote:
>
>
>
> >
>
> >Is it possible to define a real shit.
I mean some would say that
>
Oliver
>
> >North is one. Others say that
he is an AMERICAN hero for lying to
>
> >Congress and shredding documents sought by lawful subpenis Then
>
they
>
>
^^^^^^^^
>
> >want to subpenis Clinton? The
question is, will Hillary shred the
>
> ^^^^^^^^
>
> >evidence, or maybe hide it in a Bobbit file till after the trial?
>
>
>
> am i the only one who finds it amusing that a lawyer spells
>
subpeona's as
>
> "subpenis'?
>
> or is it because its 4am
>
> and ive had wayyyyyyy too much caffine
>
> and my mouth is dry from too many cigarettes?
>
> or among other things?
>
>
>
> ttfn.
>
>
>
> lisa
>
> --
>
>
>
> Lisa M. Rabey Computer Consultant UIN: 1231211
>
>
>
>
************************************************************
>
> words...1000's of words..
wrapped together like wire
>
> how easy it
would be to hate you
>
> and yet that is
all i can show you -me
>
>
>
> http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
mirror->
>
> http://www.interlog.com/~lisa
>
> my
impression was the spelling was deliberate.
of course, the
>
rationale
>
for this deliberate decision may rest deeply imbedded somewhere in his
>
> or
our collective psyches.
>
>
david rhaesa
>
salina, Kansas
David, Lisa,
Paula
Jones says, if he drops trow, I can id the man. What is she
wanting
to see and id? His penis etc. So yes deliberate and to tie
into a
Hillary shredding the evidence and into a Bobbitt joke. Perhaps
bad,
perhaps too "good" of humor.
It was all a joke in response to the
post by
Charles Plymell, and I must say a most excellent post, about the
list,
the bullshit laws, and the real stuff, or was that right stuff and
real
shit. Oh well, color me bad. (another
joke there).
--
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:39:54 -0400
Reply-To: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: List changes
In-Reply-To:
<BEAT-L%97060209534861@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
hi
fred. i'm a computer idiot.
how do
we specify list vs private?
and is
this the fallout from the tempest which endangered the teapot?
how sad
that community suffers.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 16:45:40 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: jack kerouac bio written by Gerald
Nicosia
beat
points
first:
there's an italian language translation of the
book written by Gerald Nicosia 'bout
the JK life
& works? anyone can tell
something?
second:in
angst for the hot shift of the posts from word
to word, points
first:
there's an italian language translation of the
book written by Gerald Nicosia 'bout the JK life
& works? anyone can tell
something?
second:in
angst for the hot shift of the posts from word
to word, but i'm a real beet (sic!)
& i do not understand
why people leaves the B-List.
yrs
Rinaldo.
---
yrs
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:02:40 -0500
Reply-To: thereman@IX.NETCOM.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Josh Meyer
<thereman@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Decline of the West
Hi...
I am
new to the list.
(Quick
background- 18 yr. old male, headed to Lawrence, KS for college in the
fall)
Anyways,
I had a quick question...
I am
gearing up to read "Decline of the West," by Oswald Spengler, and
wish to
solicit
some opinion on this book. I picked it up after reading of its extreme
influence
on the beats, particularly Burroughs and Ginsberg.
Has
anyone here read it, and if so, what did you think?
thanks...
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:47:35 EDT
Reply-To: mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mark Hemenway
<mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>
Subject: Good Work Bill
Here's
to Bill Gargan who donates his time and energy to providing a forum
for us
beat enthusiasts. It was his enthusiasm and hard word that got the
list
started and he's the one that keeps it running every day. It's still
the
best list I've seen in any category. Good work Bill.
Here's
to all the other volunteers- Levi Asher, Paul Maher, Attila Gyenis
and so
many others who have the courage to start and run magazine or web
site or
festival or event that we all can enjoy. They are the ones posting
new
material to the web and stuffing envelopes at midnight after a full
week at
their day job. Lord knows, none of us is making any money at it.
Nor do
we expect to.
A
little respect and recognition please.
Mark
Hemenway
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 12:02:11 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: List changes
Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
> hi
fred. i'm a computer idiot.
>
how do we specify list vs private?
>
and is this the fallout from the tempest which endangered the teapot?
>
how sad that community suffers.
> mc
Folks,
The
message from Fred is a really big deal.
The thing that makes this
list
work is spontaneous responses to the thoughts of the other members.
This literally means that everytime you
respond, a RE:, the response
will go
only to the last person. You will only
be carrying on private
email
conversations with one another. There
will be no subject threads
only
the first message that started the thread.
Now seriously, if you
want to
kill the beat list, this is the way to do it. I see this as a
serious
violation of the free speech that the beats spent their lives
fighting
for. We need to be able to respond
freely to one another in a
public
forum. I protest this and I hope my
response gets to the entire
list.
The entire list should not be made to suffer because 3-4 guys don't
like
each other. I deleted Marie's address from my reply and typed in the
BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
address. Make sure in your responses
that you
type
the BEAT-L address in the Mail To: section.
This is something that
we
seriously need to discuss ON THE LIST!
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 12:13:55 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: List changes
Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
>
>
> hi fred. i'm a computer idiot.
>
> how do we specify list vs private?
>
> and is this the fallout from the tempest which endangered the teapot?
>
> how sad that community suffers.
>
> mc
>
>
Folks,
> The message from Fred is a really big
deal. The thing that makes this
list work is spontaneous responses to the
thoughts of the other
members. This literally means that everytime you
respond, a RE:, the
response
will go only to the last person. You
will only be carrying on
private
email conversations with one another.
There will be no subject
threads
only the first message that started the thread. Now seriously,
if you
want to kill the beat list, this is the way to do it. I see this
as a
serious violation of the free speech that the beats spent their
lives fighting for. We need to be able to respond freely to one
another
in a public forum. I protest this and I hope my response gets
to the
entire list. The entire list should not
be made to suffer
because
3-4 guys don't like each other. I deleted
Marie's address from
my
reply and typed in the BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU address. Make sure in
your
responses that you type the BEAT-L address in the Mail To: section.
This is something that we seriously need to
discuss ON THE LIST!
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:55:48 -0400
Reply-To: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: sad state of affairs
In-Reply-To: <339318B3.C99@together.net>
hi
diane. i think given what has happened, and mostly off list between who
i
appreciate as having balanced minds, who have had to find a kinder and
freeer
exchange of ideas which this list really developed and began to
evolve
into community place/space. until the recent events.
however,
shouted (IN CAPS!!!) insults, swearing, muckraking, not willing to
let
go histrionic and just plain perversity
of approx. 5-10 (generous
numbers,
here!) peple who just basically come barging into the coffee shop,
rumble
on the floor, patrons fleeing, and too damned soaked in testosterone
to
notice that the place IS CLEARING OUT because most of recent sign offs
have
deliberately chosen to join kinder and more inclusionary atmosphere(s).
JH in
chicago: i dig yr project but cant agree with you here.
it
seems like 90% of posts are taken up w/name droppers, travel excusion
more
relevantly private (like so and so will be here tomorrwo, etc) as well
as name
calling best suited to filthy gas station doors, than here.
i have
become disillusioned that some of the movers and shakers of the beat
renaissance
now choose to rail and flail. reminds me too much of JK in
florida
before hemmoraging to death on bathroom floor.
i'm so
disillusioned,
and
this is coming from someone whose very nature is psychotically optimistic.
sad sad
sad.
going
off to join ron and all my buddies.
mc
ps bill
again, dont unsub. i need to take a stand for a while.
mc
mc
marie
wrote:
>>
hi fred. i'm a computer idiot.
>>
how do we specify list vs private?
>>
and is this the fallout from the tempest which endangered the teapot?
>>
how sad that community suffers.
>>
mc
>
>Folks,
>
>The
message from Fred is a really big deal.
The thing that makes this
>list
work is spontaneous responses to the thoughts of the other members.
>
This literally means that everytime you respond, a RE:, the response
>will
go only to the last person. You will
only be carrying on private
>email
conversations with one another. There
will be no subject threads
>only
the first message that started the thread.
Now seriously, if you
>want
to kill the beat list, this is the way to do it. I see this as a
>serious
violation of the free speech that the beats spent their lives
>fighting
for. We need to be able to respond
freely to one another in a
>public
forum. I protest this and I hope my
response gets to the entire
>list.
The entire list should not be made to suffer because 3-4 guys don't
>like
each other. I deleted Marie's address from my reply and typed in the
>BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
address. Make sure in your responses
that you
>type
the BEAT-L address in the Mail To: section.
This is something that
>we
seriously need to discuss ON THE LIST!
>
>DC
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 12:03:12 EST
Reply-To: MORE OXY THAN MORON
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MORE OXY THAN MORON
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Burroughs collection
David
R,
I will
try and find out when the special collections will be available to the
public.
There is some at the moment, but the new stuff will take awhile. I'll
let you
know.
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:06:55 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: list in fighting and fbi
Marie
Countryman wrote:
>
> mr
nicosia:
> i
know you are greatly vexed. but to call in the fbi is just too much for me.
>
these guys dont just go after the one, which will mean all of list shall be
>
open to said agents.
>
they will be readin all; much talk here has been about 'relaxing' with
>
mother nature.
>
this is reaching the heights of wagnerian opera,
>
this tempest in a teapot.
>
i've had enough in my time of tapped phones and the like.
>
they wont just investigate a few fellows.
> i
dont want them reading my mail.
> so
this may be a sign off.
>
bill, dont unsub me. i'll do it myself when i see just how this is going.
>
sadly,
> mc
My
sentiments exactly.I sure don't want the FBI going through my
computer
or anyone else's on a fishing expedition.
Maybe time to clean
a lot
of hard drives.
Calling
the cops is in my view a much greater violation of the Beat List
purpose
than stupid name calling. This is
serious stuff.
J
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 12:10:05 -0400
Reply-To: Waterrow@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: List changes
Diane
is making some very good points here -
If the
original sender only gets a reply, then I think we will lose that
spontaneous
prose that Jack taught us...
Why
should the rules change like this because a few guys continue to insult
each
other...
Bill:
Just get rid of those who continue to insult, swear at, or not use
proper
netiquette to othe members...
Example:
calling someone a "FAGGOT" like Chaput did or me calling Jerry C a
liar
(which I apologize for now publicly)...
Diane's
brought up a real good point that must be discussed...
if we
go along with the change here, our Beat-L is just email and not a Beat
list....
Jeffrey
WRB
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:53:27 +0200
Reply-To: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: the original sender
Fred
Bogin <FDBBC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>Hi
folks,
>Excuse
me while I pull on my hip boots to wade in here.
>Effective
immediately, all replies to postings on beat-l will go to the
>original
sender, NOT the list, unless otherwise specified.
>
>fred
>
>
hello,
i don't
understand what is happened exactly,
I HAVE
NO RESPONSE FROM THE USUAL LISTSERV@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU,
it
started yesterda, on sunday 1 june 1997,
no
response & no idea where my posts are gone,
SAD
TIMES,
who is
the ORIGINAL SENDER ?
yrs
Rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:26:31 +0000
Reply-To: annie@rt66.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: annie shank <annie@RT66.COM>
Organization:
you can't be serious
Subject: Re: list in fighting and fbi
Comments:
To: stauffer@pacbell.net
It's
gotten too deep for me, folx. When I
subbed here, I expected
something
other than what's been crowding my inbox.
I expected people
talking
about beat literature and the authors and the era. I got usenet
on a
listserv. And now someone's talking
about bringing in the
federales?
I think
not.
See ya
later. I'll try in about a year and see
if this place still
exists
or if nothing is left but scorched earth.
Sheesh!
annie annie@rt66.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:34:59 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: List changes
Jeffrey
Weinberg wrote:
>
>
Diane is making some very good points here -
> If
the original sender only gets a reply, then I think we will lose that
>
spontaneous prose that Jack taught us...
>
>
Why should the rules change like this because a few guys continue to insult
>
each other...
>
>
Bill: Just get rid of those who continue to insult, swear at, or not use
>
proper netiquette to othe members...
>
Example: calling someone a "FAGGOT" like Chaput did or me calling
Jerry C a
>
liar (which I apologize for now publicly)...
>
>
Diane's brought up a real good point that must be discussed...
> if
we go along with the change here, our Beat-L is just email and not a Beat
>
list....
>
>
Jeffrey
>
WRB
Jeffery,
I see
both sides of this. You aren't blocked
from posting to the
list--it's
just that your first option is to post direct.
When
Bill talked about this change I encouraged him. I hate to see
community
lost myself. But sometimes posts seem
primarily aimed at the
person
who wrote them rather than the list itself.
The
number of posts is a problem for some of us.
If a member has to
decide
to post to the list he or she might think whether it really needs
to go
to the entire list. Lisa's situation is
typical. When I am away
at work
and come home at night just going through Beat-L becomes a
chore.
Hard to get anything else done. (and if you leave for a three day
weekend
it's monumental) Maybe we should all edit ourselves a little
more. To me that isn't censorship. I have gone
more to backchannelling
anyway
because the post volume just seems to create very crowded
airwaves.
Poetry
posts are nice sometimes, but we are now being used as sort of an
open
mike at a poetry slam by some. Maybe
some of us have time to read
these
things thoughtfully. I usually don't.
I agree
that this needs discussion. But it
wouldn't hurt to try it and
see how
it works. And it might help cool the air a little and get us all
focused
again and what we were here for rather than a daily reenactment
of the
Punic Wars.
James
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:03:13 -0400
Reply-To: Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: List changes
Before
there is too much hand wringing and finger pointing on this latest
change
I think we should all look at the big picture here.
We're
dealing with quite a few issues all involving CHANGE in what we've been
used
to.
1). A huge blip of new people joining the list
after AG died.
2). A resulting increase in the daily limit to
the number of posts from 50
to 100.
3). The Great Estate Debate involving some
people who are relatively new to
the
list and some who have been on for a while.
4). Some people unsubbing, mostly new people, a
smaller number who have been
on for
a while.
5). A vast increase in the number of posts,
whether they are Estate related
or not.
6). Some people who never post a thing and some
who post 10-20 times a day.
Given
all these changes happening at once I think we should take a wait and
see
attitude regarding the new set-up on the "Reply" button.
These
changes may not be all bad and they may not foretell any major downward
spiral
of the list. Lisa made a humorous
comment about how long it takes her
email
to download and I think we can all relate to what she said (with the
possible
exception of doing our nails).
One of
the things this new change will mean is it will force each individual
to make
a conscious choice when sending a post to the list. It means you'll
have to
decide each and every time if what you're sending is appropriate for
200+
people or not. It should mean the end
to the easy "one button clicks"
that we
see so often and that really aren't necessary.
CHANGE
is never easy for anyone, but it happens whether we like it or not.
This might simply be a better way to manage
the list. Let's see what
happens. We can always change back if it seems
appropriate.
Jerry
Cimino
PS: I've been backchanneling with Levi for quite
a while and he asked me
(read
"gave permission") to tell everyone that he says "hello",
"misses
everyone"
and "looks forward to coming back soon" but it would be impractical
right
now to do so as his book is ready to come out very soon and he is
buried.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:10:09 -0700
Reply-To: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: a question:jack kerouac bio written
by Gerald Nicosia
June 2, 1997
>first:
there's an italian language translation of the
> book written by Gerald Nicosia 'bout
the JK life
> & works? anyone can tell
something?
>yrs
>Rinaldo.
>
Rinaldo, Unfortunately there's no Italian translation
yet. Nanda Pivano
wrote
about MEMORY BABE in the CORRIERE DELLA SERRA and tried to get someone
interested,
but the problem is the book's length--almost 800 pages, which
means
you have to pay a translator for 1-2 years' work.
There is a translation available in
Spanish from Circe Ediciones in
Spain
(Barcelona), called JACK KEROUAC; and a translation in excellent
French
which uses the English title (MEMORY BABE) from Quebec-Amerique in
Montreal,
which I believe is distributed in France too.
Ciao, Gerry
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:49:58 -0700
Reply-To: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Estate Potatoe War (with an E)
...,
nor is there one
>person
out there who I feel is the person who should be the spokesperson on
>this
issue (even if they did write a biography).
>Next:
Just wondering. Suppose Person A is discussing something with Person B,
>and
asks Person B to prove something. And Person B proves it by using an
>excerpt
from a letter written by Person A. And
Person A's response is that
>they
are going to sue for Libel, slander, and copyright infringement. Does
>anybody
find that a little unusual?
>
>so
it goes, Attila
>
June
2, 1997
Dear
Attila,
I write you with all due respect:
Honest, open argument, with facts
instead
of name calling.
It is clear, despite your pronouns,
that you are writing about me.
I am
the only biographer on this list--that I know of.
Person A would then be Rod
Anstee. He accused me of selling
Columbia
University xeroxes to U Mass, Lowell, illegally. I said I had not
done
this, and I (or perhaps it was Bentz Kirby) asked for proof. In reply,
Mr.
Anstee quoted from my private letters indicating that there were xeroxes
of
Kerouac letters to Malcolm Cowley at U Mass, Lowell, which had come as
part of
my collection.
The Malcolm Cowley letters (xeroxes)
were NOT FROM COLUMBIA
UNIVERSITY. I had met with Mr. Cowley privately, he had
handwritten a
permission
for me to copy his Kerouac letters and to use those xeroxes
however
I chose; and the Newberry Library (where Mr. Cowley had placed those
letters
for preservation) honored Mr. Cowley's agreement with me.
So Mr. Anstee DID NOT PROVE his
libelous accusations by printing my
private
letters; he only compounded his crimes against me by violating my
copyright
in those letters (A WRITER'S PRIVATE LETTERS ARE GIVEN HIGHEST
PRIORITY
PROTECTION UNDER U.S. FEDERAL COPYRIGHT.)
By the way, when I capitalize it's
because I mean simply to
underline,
or italicize, not to shout; but I haven't figured out how to
underline
or italicize yet in my particular email sender format.
(I do admit to being a novice.)
I hope this clears up a point.
Good luck with your next issue of
DHARMA BEAT.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 01:01:58 -0600
Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: R&R Houff <stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>
Hello
James,
Man,
getting that Little Walter sound is a tough package to fill.
Remember
Juke? That's a Houserocker. Luther is real cool and almost
impossible
to play harp against his lead. I've tried a few times and
took
the 10 count and died. I'm glad he decided to move back to the
states.
Richard
Houff
Pariah
Press
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:09:41 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Burroughs; was Re: my condolences to
whoever just "signed
off"...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.PMDF.3.91.970529231126.540035616A-100000@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
On Thu,
29 May 1997, Jeff Taylor wrote:
> What do artists do? They dream for other
people. We dream for those
>
people who have no dreams of their own to keep them alive."
>
(_Painting and Guns_ p.46)
Just
picked up this book over the weekend. I love it! This is my favorite
style
of Burroughs' writing, his I don't know what you'd call them,
rhetorical
essays or something -- the stuff like this or along the lines of
_Electronic
Revolution_, which has been my favorite Burroughs work for a
while.
Any recommendations for other wsb articles/books/interviews along
these
lines?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 15:18:50 -0700
Reply-To: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Diane Carter
<dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: sad state of affairs
>
Marie Countryman wrote:
>
>
>
> hi diane. i think given what has happened, and mostly off list between who
>
> i appreciate as having balanced minds, who have had to find a kinder and
>
> freeer exchange of ideas which this list really developed and began to
>
> evolve into community place/space. until the recent events.
>
> however, shouted (IN CAPS!!!) insults, swearing, muckraking, not willing
to
>
> let go histrionic and just plain
perversity of approx. 5-10 (generous
>
> numbers, here!) peple who just basically come barging into the coffee shop,
>
> rumble on the floor, patrons fleeing, and too damned soaked in
testosterone
>
> to notice that the place IS CLEARING OUT because most of recent sign offs
>
> have deliberately chosen to join kinder and more inclusionary
atmosphere(s).
>
> JH in chicago: i dig yr project but cant agree with you here.
>
> it seems like 90% of posts are taken up w/name droppers, travel excusion
>
> more relevantly private (like so and so will be here tomorrwo, etc) as
well
>
> as name calling best suited to filthy gas station doors, than here.
>
> i have become disillusioned that some of the movers and shakers of the
beat
>
> renaissance now choose to rail and flail. reminds me too much of JK in
>
> florida before hemmoraging to death on bathroom floor.
>
> i'm so disillusioned,
>
> and this is coming from someone whose very nature is psychotically
optimistic.
>
> sad sad sad.
>
> going off to join ron and all my buddies.
>
> mc
>
> ps bill again, dont unsub. i need to take a stand for a while.
>
> mc
I am in total agreement that 90% of the posts
in the last month or so
should not have been here. I guess what I am saying is that all of us
seriously concerned with sharing ideas on a
daily basis, make an
agreement that we will only discuss beat
things intelligently, with no
shouting, namecalling or harrassment. I think it is important,
however,
that we be able to maintain a thought flow by repling (re:ing)
to
individual posts on the list. Why don't
we start now by refusing to
reply
to flames and eventually maybe we will all have the community we
want to
share ideas and Bill at CUNY can decide that we don't have to
type in
that very long beat address every time we want to talk.
DC
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 15:08:25 EDT
Reply-To: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Stauffer's comments on fbi
I'm
afraid cleaning out the hard drives won't do any good. All the
archives
areon the server and open to anyone who wishes to view them.
They
won't even need to notify us or get a warrant.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:07:17 -0700
Reply-To: James William Marshall
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Mass Hysteria
I've never seen anything like this
before. First there's this estate
business
and then there's the pleas for the estate business to stop which
only
serve to perpetuate it. (I realize I
just made another contribution).
People
are sick of this and sick of that.
People are leaving because of
this
and because of that. A few Beats get
mentioned in passing.
Reports of people trying to wipe out
their hard-drives because the feds
might get
involved. Then they learn / remember
that their postings are held
in an
archive. Now these people are probably
trying to get as much
information
about hacking as they can. Relax. Here, have some Nyquill.
The beat list beaten by fear and loathing,
the Beats 'd love that. The
Beats
aren't here. The Beats aren't
here. The Beats aren't here. Dear so
and so
we talk about the list itself more than the Beats themselves. Maybe
there's
nothing to say about them. Maybe this
list should just be a list of
recommended
readings. Maybe this list should be a
poetry forum. Maybe this
list
shouldn't exist. Maybe it should. Beat the heat. Maybe this list is
premature
splatterings due to the ongoing nature of Beatdom; too bad we
can't
take advantage of that fact. The Beats
resound and sound again by
their
absence. Love this. Love that.
Don't stop destroying yourselves,
you
might learn something.
James M.