=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 30 May 1997 19:30:27 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Dylan memories

 

In a message dated 97-05-30 15:04:32 EDT, you write:

 

<< 11/27/64 - Masonic Memorial Auditorium, SF, CA

 

 Would this be the one?

 

 Mike

  >>

Thank you Mike.  That's it.

Pam

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 30 May 1997 18:44:49 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: this beat list

 

Maya Gorton wrote:

>

>  scream of ripping flesh pierces brain reduces heart to mass of tangles

> despair

synapses twist through backyard memory of childhood

puppy-love

tangled and ending in empty memory

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 30 May 1997 18:59:17 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Desire

 

Maya Gorton wrote:

>

Constant realization

....becoming unbecome.

Becoming other---what was i in the first place?

I can only come to the

 conclusion that

 'I'

never existed.

 

 

never.  what's never?

unbecoming of become

perpetual demolition

of it

that connects

"i"

with

"I"

and IT

is it

ever and never

dance a slow waltz

and eternity

becomes straightjacketed

in some fool's

concept of time.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 30 May 1997 17:17:37 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: Cranial Guitar keeps Kaufman in tune....

Comments: cc: WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

 

At 04:41 PM 5/30/97 -0400, you wrote:

>At 10:50 AM 5/30/97 -0700, you wrote:

>>                                                May 30, 1997

>>Jeffrey Weinberg writes:

>>"... argumentative but very talented editor Mr.

>>Nicosia...."

>>

>>Jeffrey,

>>        There's a difference between "argumentative" and "committed" or

>>"willing to fight for what he believes in."

>>        Rush Limbaugh is argumentative.

>>        Martin Luther King, Jr. was committed.

>>        There are people who don't like either of them, but let's not mix up

>>meanings.

>>

>>        Best, Gerry

>>

>>Don't disgrace the name of the great Dr. King by comparing yourself to him.

>Nicosia-committed I agree. Phil

>

 

Dear Phil,    May 30, 1997

 

        Here we just calm things down, and get agreements about no slander,

etc., and you turn around and call me a "disgrace."

        I hope everybody's watching just who starts the gunfights and who

lights the fires around here.

        Your use of the word "disgrace" about me is clearly over the bounds

set by Bill Gargan.

        I did not compare myself to Martin Luther King, Jr., any more than I

was comparing myself to Rush Limbaugh.  I was using both of them as examples

to make a semantic distinction between argumentative and committed.

        My commitment to helping black people, by the way, goes a long way

back, and I have put my time and energy where my mouth is.  For years I

worked with a ghetto church in Chicago, the Lawndale Community Church, in

the same neighborhood where my dad delivered mail, working with troubled

neighborhood kids, counseling and tutoring, etc.

        Recently I met with Martin Luther King's daughter, Bernice, to

discuss the issue of a white family adopting a black child.

        JUST WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR BLACK PEOPLE THAT ENABLES YOU TO JUDGE

ME A DISGRACE IN THIS REGARD?

        (Please answer in a civilized manner, as per Mr. Gargan's

instructions, and without namecalling.)

        Yours truly, Gerald Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 30 May 1997 20:24:08 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Ben <beidelson@USA.NET>

Subject:      Re: On the Road 1st edition Facsimile

 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

 

------=_NextPart_000_01BC6D37.6DA9BA80

Content-Type: text/plain;

        charset="US-ASCII"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

HELP!! I'm stuck on this list and I'm only ten years old!  I can't get =

off!  HOW DO I GET UNLISTED?!? (no insult intended).

Ben Eidelson

 

 ----

From: Paul Maher <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Date: Friday, May 30, 1997 9:56 AM

Subject:  On the Road 1st edition Facsimile

 

There is a number you can call to order a 1st edition hardcover =

facsimile of

On the Road which falls in line with a series of other hardcover such as

Fitzgerald, Hemingway, Faulkner,Kesey, etc. The number to obtain this is =

in

Groton, Connecticutt. It is 1-800-367-4534. Ask for the 1st Edition =

Library

and tell them you would like to buy On the Road. It may be around =

$35.00. It

isn't the real thing but is nice to have this novel in a hardcover =

format

nevertheless. regards, Paul of TKQ....

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_01BC6D37.6DA9BA80

Content-Type: text/html;

        charset="US-ASCII"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML 3.2//EN">

<HTML>

<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =

http-equiv=3DContent-Type>

<META content=3D'"Trident 4.71.0544.0"' name=3DGENERATOR>

 

</HEAD>

<BODY><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>

<P><FONT size=3D+4>HELP!!</FONT> <FONT size=3D+1>I'm stuck on this list =

and I'm only=20

ten years old!  I can't get off!  <FONT size=3D+2>HOW DO I GET =

UNLISTED?!?</FONT>=20

(no insult intended).</FONT></P>

 

<P><FONT size=3D+1>Ben Eidelson</FONT>

 

<P><FONT size=3D+1></FONT>&nbsp;</P>

 ----<BR>

<B>From: </B>Paul Maher &lt;mapaul@PIPELINE.COM&gt;<BR>

<B>To: </B>Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L =

&lt;BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU&gt;<BR>

<B>Date: </B>Friday, May 30, 1997 9:56 AM<BR>

<B>Subject: </B> On the Road 1st edition Facsimile<BR>

<BR>

<HTML><BODY><FONT size=3D2>There is a number you can call to order a 1st =

edition=20

hardcover facsimile of<BR>

On the Road which falls in line with a series of other hardcover such =

as<BR>

Fitzgerald, Hemingway, Faulkner,Kesey, etc. The number to obtain this is =

in<BR>

Groton, Connecticutt. It is 1-800-367-4534. Ask for the 1st Edition =

Library<BR>

and tell them you would like to buy On the Road. It may be around =

$35.00. It<BR>

isn't the real thing but is nice to have this novel in a hardcover =

format<BR>

nevertheless. regards, Paul of TKQ....<BR>

</FONT></FONT>

</BODY></HTML>

 

------=_NextPart_000_01BC6D37.6DA9BA80--

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 30 May 1997 19:29:29 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Random Revelation

 

>

> just got a packet in the mail from dallas in cambridge with the packets of

 "firewalk thru madness" and "beyond the haldol haze" collections i wrote in 92

 and lost.  and this little tidbit i gave dallas with a letter in wintson-salem

 or evanston - they run together.

>

> Random Revelation

>       or

> Revalationary

> Randomness

>

> dbr -

>

> Yahtzee

> a random

> game

> that's

> not quite random

> but more

> than Spades

> I guess

> at least

> when

> my friend

> the Manson

> look alike

> is dealing the cards

> and my partner

> Saint John

> was writing

> Revelations

> as he

> explained

> the righteousness

> of Hitler

> to me

> and Gandhi

> and Jesus

> lifted him

> out of his

> Thorzine haze

> and let him

> see the

> Angels

> of a

> different color

> (like the horse

> in the Wizard of Oz)

> so that he

> could go

> to Germany

> through a

> book

> called

> Lightning

> and explain

> it all

> to Adolph

> before they

> died

> and then

> he could

> explain it

> all to Adolph

> Coors

> and Fred Domino

> over Caserolle

> at the Soup Kitchen

> in downtown

> Iowa City

> next to the

> church

> where

> the pastor

> is a janitor

> and the

> admiral

> is an

> admissions

> officer

> and

> the piano

> hasn't been

> tuned

> since

> it got

> there

> in 1836.

>

> (remember the cards games with John like yesterday)

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 30 May 1997 17:48:44 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Bob Kaufman and Martin Luther King

 

                                        May 30, 1997

 

        Just thinking about the irony of this: I am accused by Phil Chaput

of "disgracing" Dr. Martin Luther King (one of my heroes) just by mentioning

his name from my lips.

        And it's all in the context of my having just helped bring honor to

the GREATEST BLACK POET OF THE BEAT GENERATION: BOB KAUFMAN.  (I don't think

Ted or Amiri would dispute me on that.)

        Again, Phil, what have YOU been doing for black people lately?

        With all due respect,

        Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 30 May 1997 18:54:33 +0000

Reply-To:     annie@rt66.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         annie shank <annie@RT66.COM>

Organization: you can't be serious

Subject:      Just for starters: 3

 

Haight: 69

 

Junkies wandering the dawn

wraiths in Dayglo

vague in their near-transparency

 

Shiva worshippers

naked as sunlight

chanting morning mantra in a park tree

 

Acid dealer electric shaman

amid acolytes

prismatic

 

Amber street lamps

glowing

witchlights in the dusk

 

Musk of patchouli

City smell of bus exhaust

Distant tang of ocean:

Mystic incense of home

to those once transformed

and still dreaming

 

                                2/94

 

annie                                                   annie@rt66.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 30 May 1997 21:01:43 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>

Subject:      i loved

 

tonight i'm sad..going to nyc tomorrow to my old friends in brooklyn...i

wonder why i moved away sometimes, then i remember.  i hate, i mean love, i

mean, hate the city.  i miss having friends, but then i remember how little

those people really counted when i was dying.  in New york, if you don't

write or paint every day, it gets clogged up inside you, you need to get it

out of your system.  That was my first mistake, and i guess my biggest.  How

foolish i was to think love existed!

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 30 May 1997 20:09:58 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: i loved

 

Maya Gorton wrote:

>

...i wonder why i moved away sometimes, then i remember.

 

this one made my day.  applies to so much more than 'moving away'....

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 30 May 1997 21:20:23 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      odd bits o'this and that. thoughts for the day, or whatever

In-Reply-To:  <338EF959.541FA2C7@scsn.net>

 

yep its me agin on a saturday night, blonde on blond playing,

free association among remembered quotations:

 

from Moby Dick:

pip and what he became

"the intense concentration of self in the middle of such a heartless

immensity, my god! the sea had jeeringly kept his finite body up, but

drowned the infinite in his soul. not drowned entriely though, rather,

carried down alive to wondrous deptshs, where strange shapes of the

unwarped primal world glided to and from before his passive eyes. he saw

god's foot upon the treadle of the loom, and spoke it, and therfore his

shipmates called him mad...[pip] 'i look you look he looks,,,and you and i

you and he; and we ye and they, are all bats...here's the ship's naval,

this doubloon here, and they are all on fire to unscrew it, but unscrew yr

navel and what's the consequence. then again, if it stays here, that is

ugly too, for when aught's nailed to the mast its a sign that things grow

desperate..

 

wcw/asphodel, bk one

i cannot say

        that i have gone to hell

                for your love

but often

        found myself there

                in your pursuit

i did not like it

        and wanted to be in heaven

                hear me out

        ,,,it is the mind

        that must be cured

                short of death's

intervention,

        and the will becomes again

                a garden

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 30 May 1997 21:33:59 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Clay Vaughan <CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>

Subject:      unsolicited influence

 

Night of breaking glass

 

              remembering Elise

 

        "Baby it's up to you," is what she's

         actually saying, "about how many times

         you wanta see me and all that-- but

         I want to be independent like I say."

 

                       from SUBTERRANEANS, by Jack Kerouac

 

 

 

An emptied bottle

abruptly tossed

from hand over head

over backward lost

 

in a high dive off

a third floor roof

onto a street

below

 

 

More than symbol

evincing loss

(did this really

happen once?)

 

what in the world

suggests as strange

a scene as this

 

than an unrequited

love for an awful girl

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 30 May 1997 20:34:54 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: odd bits o'this and that. thoughts for the day, or whatever

 

Marie Countryman wrote:

>

> yep its me agin on a saturday night, blonde on blond playing,

> free association among remembered quotations:

>

its me again at my night is Friday though they are all the same to me -

they're nights.  loved your quotes and thought i'd send back a few.

 

"He was insane.  And when you look directly at an insane man all you see

is a reflection of your own knowledge that he's insane, which is not so

see him at all.  To see him you must see what he saw and when you are

trying to see the vision of an insane man, an oblique route is the only

way to come at it."

-- Robert Pirsig

 

"One must harbor chaos within to give birth to a dancing star."

-- Nietzsche

 

"I think present-day reason is an analogue of the flat earth of the

medieval period.  If you go too far beyond it you're presumed to fall

off, into insanity.  And people are very much afraid of that.  I think

this fear of insanity is comparable to the fear people once had of

falling off the edge of the world."

-- Robert Pirsig

 

"Nay, be a Columbus to whole new continents and worlds within you,

opening new channels, not of trade, but of thought.  Every man is the

lord of a realm beside which the earthly empire of the Czar is but a

pretty state, a hummock left for the ice."

-- Henry David Thoreau

 

"(A bluetick hound bays out there in the fog, running scared and lost

because he can't see.  No tracks on the ground but the one's he's

making, and he sniffs in every direction with his cold rubber nose and

picks up no scent but his own fear, fear burning down into him like

steam.)  It's gonna burn me just that way, finally telling all about

this."

-- Ken Kesey

 

"If one listens to the faintest but constant suggestions of his genius,

which are certainly true, he sees not to what extremes, or even insanity

it may lead him; and yet that way, as he grows more and more faithful,

his road lies.  The faintest assured objection which one healthy man

feels will at length prevail over the arguments and customs of mankind.

No man ever followed his genius till it misled him.  Though the result

were bodily weakness, yet perhaps no one can say that the consequences

were to be regretted, for these were a life in conformity to higher

principles."

-- Henry David Thoreau

 

"Good is a verb."

-- Robert Pirsig

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 30 May 1997 18:43:37 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "s.a. griffin" <perrotta@USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: odd bits o'this and that. thoughts for the day, or whatever

 

At 08:34 PM 5/30/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Marie Countryman wrote:

>>

>> yep its me agin on a saturday night, blonde on blond playing,

>> free association among remembered quotations:

>>

>its me again at my night is Friday though they are all the same to me -

>they're nights.  loved your quotes and thought i'd send back a few.

>

>"He was insane.  And when you look directly at an insane man all you see

>is a reflection of your own knowledge that he's insane, which is not so

>see him at all.  To see him you must see what he saw and when you are

>trying to see the vision of an insane man, an oblique route is the only

>way to come at it."

>-- Robert Pirsig

>

>"One must harbor chaos within to give birth to a dancing star."

>-- Nietzsche

>

>"I think present-day reason is an analogue of the flat earth of the

>medieval period.  If you go too far beyond it you're presumed to fall

>off, into insanity.  And people are very much afraid of that.  I think

>this fear of insanity is comparable to the fear people once had of

>falling off the edge of the world."

>-- Robert Pirsig

>

>"Nay, be a Columbus to whole new continents and worlds within you,

>opening new channels, not of trade, but of thought.  Every man is the

>lord of a realm beside which the earthly empire of the Czar is but a

>pretty state, a hummock left for the ice."

>-- Henry David Thoreau

>

>"(A bluetick hound bays out there in the fog, running scared and lost

>because he can't see.  No tracks on the ground but the one's he's

>making, and he sniffs in every direction with his cold rubber nose and

>picks up no scent but his own fear, fear burning down into him like

>steam.)  It's gonna burn me just that way, finally telling all about

>this."

>-- Ken Kesey

>

>"If one listens to the faintest but constant suggestions of his genius,

>which are certainly true, he sees not to what extremes, or even insanity

>it may lead him; and yet that way, as he grows more and more faithful,

>his road lies.  The faintest assured objection which one healthy man

>feels will at length prevail over the arguments and customs of mankind.

>No man ever followed his genius till it misled him.  Though the result

>were bodily weakness, yet perhaps no one can say that the consequences

>were to be regretted, for these were a life in conformity to higher

>principles."

>-- Henry David Thoreau

>

>"Good is a verb."

>-- Robert Pirsig

>

>

"let us say yes to our presence in chaos"

john cage

 

_______________________________________________________________________

 

Lorraine M. Perrotta                    email:  lperrotta@huntington.edu

Acquisitions Librarian                  phone:  818-405-2184

The Huntington Library

1151 Oxford Road

San Marino, CA  91108

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 30 May 1997 21:12:54 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      meeting W.S.B. to ben

 

HI,

I am a 11 year old I know William S. B. So I know you are trapped on the

list.

but some of the stuff is sota neat just do not bring it to school. If

you want to get

off the list just e-mail my mom, oKay? I really like him he is cool. You

like cats?

I do he does he has a lot of  cats. He likes salt. He has a bunch of

neat art stuff. He shoots it and stuff. HE is my fab. art person. HE IS

COOL! but this list may not be cool

so just e-mail my mom if you want to depart from it.

 

Lena

 

PS E-mail me at

Lena@sunflower.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 30 May 1997 23:01:01 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sean Elias <SPElias@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: how annoying some of these whiny people are!

 

Just what was in that suitcase in Pulp Fiction anyway?

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 30 May 1997 23:02:18 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sean Elias <SPElias@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Music...

 

I bet we all listen to music almost all the time.  It'd be inneresting if

people posted their soundtracks with their posts.     (ben neil)

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 30 May 1997 23:02:47 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sean Elias <SPElias@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Dylan memories

 

In a message dated 97-05-30 11:28:10 EDT, someone wrote

<< << Do you remember when you first heard

  Dylan? >>

 

 

I remember too many late nights at the capitol theater in port chester, n.y.

( run by howard stein? later of the ??? in nyc?)..........

 

 

             lay lady lay etc.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

not the first but close enuf

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 30 May 1997 23:02:47 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sean Elias <SPElias@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Music...

 

In a message dated 97-05-30 13:57:03 EDT, you write:

 

<< How 'bout: read Burroughs and listen Throbbing Gristle? >>

 

 

Too obvious.  How about Pynchon/Pierre Henry

 

Genet/Coil...........too obvious

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 30 May 1997 22:02:22 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Music...

 

Sean Elias wrote:

>

> I bet we all listen to music almost all the time.  It'd be inneresting if

> people posted their soundtracks with their posts.     (ben neil)

 

Patricia listens to AD Astra by Celtic Visions, ( a local celtic group)

only cd i own and i figured out the computer would play it. its good.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 30 May 1997 23:12:41 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Jason P. Mast" <Oddthought@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: a calm request

 

Well my account is no longer accepting e-mail because of this inanity. I

decide to step out to vegas for a weekend and this is the result I would like

to personally thank the contributers to this, even though everyone else seems

to have been doing it for me. I think that the principals (mostly Ph.d's

apparently) should step back and realize that there were some hard lessons

learned in kindergarten, "even if they did hit first there is room to play

nicely tomorrow."  If that didn't penetrate your thick skulls at least grade

yourself at the level you would grade student papers. Cut the crap and

namecalling make real points and if the horse is dead stop beating it.

 

personal replies should have declawed the gerbil :-(

 

thank yu

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 30 May 1997 21:39:35 +0000

Reply-To:     annie@rt66.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         annie shank <annie@RT66.COM>

Organization: you can't be serious

Subject:      Re: Dylan memories

 

Sean Elias wrote:

>

> In a message dated 97-05-30 11:28:10 EDT, someone wrote

> << << Do you remember when you first heard

>   Dylan? >>

 

I think it musta been '64; I know it was my jr. year in high school.

"Hey, hey, Woody Guthrie/I wrote you a song....."

 

Ah, yes....

 

annie                                                                   annie@rt66.com

"What fresh hell is this?"  Dorothy Parker, upon awakening

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 30 May 1997 23:29:22 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bruce Hartman <bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>

Subject:      Re: Music...

 

How about Kurt Vonnegut and light-hearted polka?

 

Bruce

--------------------------

bwhartmanjr@iname.com

http://www.geocities.com/~tranestation

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 01:17:54 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject:      Re: CENSORSHIP SUCKS THE BIG ONE

 

At 05:17 PM 5/30/97 -0700, you wrote:

>At 04:41 PM 5/30/97 -0400, you wrote:

>>At 10:50 AM 5/30/97 -0700, you wrote:

>>>                                                May 30, 1997

>>>Jeffrey Weinberg writes:

>>>"... argumentative but very talented editor Mr.

>>>Nicosia...."

>>>

>>>Jeffrey,

>>>        There's a difference between "argumentative" and "committed" or

>>>"willing to fight for what he believes in."

>>>        Rush Limbaugh is argumentative.

>>>        Martin Luther King, Jr. was committed.

>>>        There are people who don't like either of them, but let's not mix up

>>>meanings.

>>>

>>>        Best, Gerry

>>>

>>>Don't disgrace the name of the great Dr. King by comparing yourself to him.

>>Nicosia-committed I agree. Phil

>>

>

>Dear Phil,    May 30, 1997

>

>        Here we just calm things down, and get agreements about no slander,

>etc., and you turn around and call me a "disgrace."

>        I hope everybody's watching just who starts the gunfights and who

>lights the fires around here.

>        Your use of the word "disgrace" about me is clearly over the bounds

>set by Bill Gargan.

>        I did not compare myself to Martin Luther King, Jr., any more than I

>was comparing myself to Rush Limbaugh.  I was using both of them as examples

>to make a semantic distinction between argumentative and committed.

>        My commitment to helping black people, by the way, goes a long way

>back, and I have put my time and energy where my mouth is.  For years I

>worked with a ghetto church in Chicago, the Lawndale Community Church, in

>the same neighborhood where my dad delivered mail, working with troubled

>neighborhood kids, counseling and tutoring, etc.

>        Recently I met with Martin Luther King's daughter, Bernice, to

>discuss the issue of a white family adopting a black child.

 

Boy Gerry your a legend in your own mind. The fact of the matter is that

it's bad enough that your constantly tooting your own horn but the fact you

compare yourself to Martin Luther King in any way shape or form makes me

want to puke. Now we have Cimino singing your praises to the world because

you only put your name in three places on Kaufman's book. Well praise be to

God to Gerry Nicosia he must be the greatest man on earth for that!

 

>        JUST WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR BLACK PEOPLE THAT ENABLES YOU TO JUDGE

>ME A DISGRACE IN THIS REGARD?

 

Do you read English Mr. Scholar I said you disgraced MARTIN LUTHER KING'S

NAME because you compared yourself to him by saying you were committed like

him. I don't think your cause quite compares with his Gerry (not by a long

shot) and quite frankly it pissed me off because he was my hero too. Wow, we

do have something in common. Gerry I'm sure your not prejudiced and I never

implied you were (from what I've heard about you I'd say your absolutely not

prejudice.) so you don't have to use this post to get on your soapbox and

preach to us about how wonderful you are. That's just my point I'm sick of

hearing how great you are. This has nothing to do with what I've done for

black people but if I had to answer that I'd say the most important thing is

I've raised three fine boys who haven't got as much as an atom of prejudice

in their bodies. On a Saturday in my yard the basketball court looks like as

one of my friends once said "the United Nations". As far as heros another

one of mine was Lenny Bruce and that's why I say "Fuck censorship" Just

remember it was YOUR THREATENING TO SUE THE BEAT-L LIST that got this list

censored in the first place. In the spirit on Non-censorship I ask you- How

long did your father jerk off in the flower pot to raise a blooming idiot

like you? You know what Gerry I don't give a fiddler's fuck if I get thrown

off the list cause listening to you makes me sick anyway.  Take those rules

about censorship print it out, roll it into a ball and SHOVE IT UP YOUR ASS.

A person can only take so much. UNCENSORED IN LOWELL - Phil Chaput

 

>        (Please answer in a civilized manner, as per Mr. Gargan's

>instructions, and without namecalling.)

                                        IS THAT CIVILIZED ENOUGH?

 

>        Yours truly, Gerald Nicosia

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 30 May 1997 22:28:23 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      SHOOTING STARS

 

What music?

 

Tonight again it John Lee Hooker doin "Chill Out"

        (tho some strange Wagnerian Sturm and Drang

        tape come on whenever I get to posts regarding

        post mortem aftermaths of beaten novelists)

 

Wishing I had some art to shoot.

No art to spare and I sold the 12 gauge last fall.

 

What is Bill shooting his art with?

12 guage? 20?  Shooting a nice light

skeet load in a 20 or ruinous 00Buck in

a magnum 12 gage?  Over and under?

Side by side?

 

My guess is pump.  Nothing

beats a pump shotgun for the malicious

Kerchunk! that action makes.

 

But you don't have to tie off

and it doesn't leave track marks

 

Maybe a sore shoulder

 

If Billy the Kid only had some art to shoot.

But he'd rather shoot artists I supose.

 

Wonder if Bill ever hears the ghostly voice of

his mother telling him not to play with guns.

Sort of a bad record in target practice.

 

J Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 30 May 1997 22:45:00 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: CENSORSHIP SUCKS THE BIG ONE

 

                                                        May 30, 1997

Phil Chaput writes:

 

... the fact you

>compare yourself to Martin Luther King in any way shape or form makes me

>want to puke....

.... In the spirit on Non-censorship I ask you- How

>long did your father jerk off in the flower pot to raise a blooming idiot

>like you?

 

Phil,

        Learn to read.  I did not compare myself to Martin Luther King.

        The real disgrace is you pretending to represent Jack Kerouac in any

shape or form.  Jack, Allen, Bill, and Gregory fought censorship not for the

right to slander, libel, demean, and defame other people, but to express the

full range of their humanity, their sexuality, their joy in life, and their

spiritual quest for knowledge.  Jack went out of his way to avoid hurting

people, both physically and with his words.  When people told him they were

hurt by some of the revelations in his writing, such as Carolyn, it pained

him deeply.

        Your father was one of the finest gentlemen I ever met.

        Yours truly, Gerald Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 00:46:39 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      cancership or just boring bile

 

One of the interesting observations for me is the fear and loathing that

beat literature and beatophiles seem to bring out.  I have to say i have

enjoyed the poetry posting that have been made but fear that they may

not be all be actually beat.  yet i am not a great one to know right off

what is beat.

Phil seems to think that any curtailing of his emotional tantrums is

somehow censorship. well here is a little story on me.  when i am

nervous or have done something stupid i have a tendancy to go on and

compound the hell. once at a party things got weird and i got to

motormouthing it. wsb turned to me and with a great smile said shut up.

it was the perfect thing to say , it restored interest to the party and

no one in their right mind thought it was censorship. More air quality

control.

So if i like beat literature and read it all the time is the provincial

poetry i write somehow beat.

you judge.

 

 

Cowgirl blues

 

The castrating cow from wellman county

 

A young calf called Emily Ann

found a skirt hanging on the fence

next to the coyote skulls and hawk wings,

she puts it on over her horns.

 It's a magical skirt transforming her into a cowgirl.

 

She is a sweet looking thing,

wide hips and long lashes,

She heads east along the river

tromping  through elkins prairie

she eyes the bulls that team along the river.

 

She sways her thighs and

with a bawling voice says

Those city slicker gals, all they  do is

they open up and just let them at it..

Well I aint that way.

 

She leans, leans on a young wild bull,

she leads him away with tales of corn.

She uses the name ann van

She eyes that bull like a tit,

She rolls her eyes and r's and says

 

those city gals, they just open their legs

and just let them at it,

I aint that way,

I let them because I'm a good cow girl.

 

Now I am a wild cow girl,

I let them, and Then

I cross my knees and it's over.

I steer them to me

I ain't like those city gals.

 

 

 

 

 

 

May 31, 1997

 

 

 

The candor bird

She had hair like sunshine and summer.

In front of the brick and stone house

stood dried catfish heads,

perched on each fence post

sentinels of naked bone.

 

Her youth was lean and hungry

striding across continents.

Her music the words of poets

in barns and on blankets.

She rhymed colors and verbs.

 

She flew in and out of the

phoenix flames, pulling out

long red embers,

taking them into her

until she glowed like a star.

 

Her heart turned warm,

No protection left,

her tongue melted,

Vomiting coals, she gave birth

and lived in the phoenix.

 

Government

Found callow

Hazardous house of rules and regulations

peopled by those who's star is control.

Callow soulless Honorlost and mean.

 

 

Business

The world of dimes,

driving  wheels of product,

mass though space.

You need something on your plate

at the end.

 

 

copyright pace

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 01:02:45 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: cancership or just boring bile

 

Patricia Elliott wrote:

>

> One of the interesting observations for me is the fear and loathing that

> beat literature and beatophiles seem to bring out.  I have to say i have

> enjoyed the poetry posting that have been made but fear that they may

> not be all be actually beat.  yet i am not a great one to know right off

> what is beat.

> Phil seems to think that any curtailing of his emotional tantrums is

> somehow censorship. well here is a little story on me.  when i am

> nervous or have done something stupid i have a tendancy to go on and

> compound the hell. once at a party things got weird and i got to

> motormouthing it. wsb turned to me and with a great smile said shut up.

> it was the perfect thing to say , it restored interest to the party and

> no one in their right mind thought it was censorship. More air quality

> control.

> So if i like beat literature and read it all the time is the provincial

> poetry i write somehow beat.

> you judge.

>

> Cowgirl blues

>

> The castrating cow from wellman county

>

> A young calf called Emily Ann

> found a skirt hanging on the fence

> next to the coyote skulls and hawk wings,

> she puts it on over her horns.

>  It's a magical skirt transforming her into a cowgirl.

>

> She is a sweet looking thing,

> wide hips and long lashes,

> She heads east along the river

> tromping  through elkins prairie

> she eyes the bulls that team along the river.

>

> She sways her thighs and

> with a bawling voice says

> Those city slicker gals, all they  do is

> they open up and just let them at it..

> Well I aint that way.

>

> She leans, leans on a young wild bull,

> she leads him away with tales of corn.

> She uses the name ann van

> She eyes that bull like a tit,

> She rolls her eyes and r's and says

>

> those city gals, they just open their legs

> and just let them at it,

> I aint that way,

> I let them because I'm a good cow girl.

>

> Now I am a wild cow girl,

> I let them, and Then

> I cross my knees and it's over.

> I steer them to me

> I ain't like those city gals.

>

> May 31, 1997

>

> The candor bird

> She had hair like sunshine and summer.

> In front of the brick and stone house

> stood dried catfish heads,

> perched on each fence post

> sentinels of naked bone.

>

> Her youth was lean and hungry

> striding across continents.

> Her music the words of poets

> in barns and on blankets.

> She rhymed colors and verbs.

>

> She flew in and out of the

> phoenix flames, pulling out

> long red embers,

> taking them into her

> until she glowed like a star.

>

> Her heart turned warm,

> No protection left,

> her tongue melted,

> Vomiting coals, she gave birth

> and lived in the phoenix.

>

> Government

> Found callow

> Hazardous house of rules and regulations

> peopled by those who's star is control.

> Callow soulless Honorlost and mean.

>

> Business

> The world of dimes,

> driving  wheels of product,

> mass though space.

> You need something on your plate

> at the end.

>

> copyright pace

 

that one woke me up.  i swear.  i was asleep for an hour or more am

still too asleep to type well.  have to fix every other letter.

i love the b.b. story and the "shut up".

 

i'd like a nice poster to hang on my wall with a smiling b.b. and the

words "shut up" in big print.

 

james - the thing you were asking about burroughs gun?  it seems that it

would probably be a b.b. gun.   hah ahahahahahahaah

 

i'm going back to leop sleep i hope.

 

night,

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 03:06:07 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leitha Sackmann <lsackma@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Music...

 

At 04:05 AM 5/30/97 -0500, Jeff Taylor wrote:

>On Sat, 24 May 1997, MORE OXY THAN MORON wrote:

>

>> I agree with mc, the sound of Jack's voice has given me a much greater sense

> of

>> his rhythm when I read his books. Not all writers have Jack's great

ability or

>> wonderful voice for reading but we are lucky to have tapes of Jack. I highly

>> recomend to all beginning readers of Kerouac to grab a tape of Jack reading

>> from his own work, nothing like it.

>

>I've always been sorta puzzled by this. I've had several friends I showed

>some Burroughs stuff to, and they were completely indifferent to

>it--until I played a WSB recording to them, when they were suddenly

>ROTFL. But it seems to me, if it's funny on the recording, it's funny on

>the page too....can't you hear the words in your head when you read?

>

>One of the most significant things about Kerouac's writing, IMHO, is its

>rhythm and tempo, which often is so forceful that you can just hear it

>singing right from the page. I was actually disappointed the first time I

>heard the recordings....now, I love to listen to them, but I don't think

>they really add anything to what's already there on paper and which can

>be recreated in your own head.

>

>In fact, having to take a breath sometimes interrupts a rhythm that may be

>distinctive to writing....esp. long passages written without punctuation

>sometimes seem like they ought to form one uninterrupted phrase, which it

>is not possible to talk through in one breath. This perhaps makes a sort

>of disruption between writing and speaking, but perhaps not between the

>writing and music--there is such a thing, when playing a horn, as

>circular breathing, i.e., breathing in thru the nose while blowing out

>thru the mouth, and by means of which you can hold a note indefinitely.

>But I never heard of circular talking.

>

>*******

>Jeff Taylor

>taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

>*******

 

Oh Man, I think there is absoluteley nothing NOTHING better than Jack

reading "I think of Dean Moriarty, I even think of old Dean Moriarty the

father we never found.  I think of Dean Moriarty, I think of Dean

Mor-EE-AH-TEE."  Jack reads with such an amazing grasp of the BEAT.  He's

got rhythym all right.  Now whenever i read Jack its just that much more

powerful because i can hear him talking to me.  I even appreciate it more

after listening to the new Kerouac CD.  Damn, all these people with great

rhythm:  Michael Stype, Patti Smith, Eddie Vedder, but none of them can

bring the words alive like Jack can.  I dont know if its because they didnt

write it or what, but i find it absolutely amazing that none of these great

musicians have control of the words like Jack does.

I don't know Jeff, maybe you've just naturally got the rythym (lucky s.o.b),

but for me at least, Jack really helps me feel the words when he reads aloud.

 

I do agree with the idea about the continuity of the mind that speaking

disrupts, but didn't jack mold his prose around this.  He did say that he

just blew his sentences until he had to take a breath and then ended them

(or something to that effect).  I wonder if it would be possible to

"circular talk."

Breath in through the nose and keep on talking.  Hmmm...i got a few

relatives who would love to get their hands on that secret at my expense.

 

just some late night thoughts.

 

matt

 

 

*****************************************************************

 

"Everyone takes the limits of his own vision

         for the limits of the world."

 

                                Arthur Schopenhauer

 

*****************************************************************

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 03:06:10 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leitha Sackmann <lsackma@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Music...

 

>Two summers ago I read _Visions of Cody_ with (mostly) Parker and Billie

>Holliday on, sipping a beer, and turned off the air conditioning and sat

>outside of the open door in the heat and humidity of the 2am southern night.

>This might seem silly at times, but it did seem to create an atmosphere

>that enhanced the reading....

 

YES.  Jack MUST be read outdoors.  or in a car traveling.  or a bus.  or a

train.  I remember reading _Big Sur_ on a ferry to alaska at 3 in the

morning and i was sitting by the railing looking out into the water which

wasn't there and all i saw was black--pure complete black.  nothing

separating the water from the sky and i really dug all of Jack's comments

about the void and the immensity of it and i thought with just one jump i

could dissapear into the blackness forever.  I really spooked myself out

(was completely alone) and had to grasp the railing tightly as i walked back

to my tent.

I've shared some great times with Jack and nature at the same time.  It's

weird because at times i think it's much easier to read inside--you get

distracted much less and can read more and sometimes it seems easier to lose

yourself in the novel when you're locked up in your room.  But i will always

prefer reading outside.  Sure you'll get distracted, but eventually the

sights and sounds of your environment will begin to blend with the sights

and sounds in the novel and soon you lose all ability to distinguish between

the two and you create a new novel that is even more powerful and personal

than the one that you are reading.

 

matt

 

 

*****************************************************************

 

"Everyone takes the limits of his own vision

         for the limits of the world."

 

                                Arthur Schopenhauer

 

*****************************************************************

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 02:23:31 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Natalie Foster <nfoster@SOUTHWIND.NET>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac in the Top 40

 

Levi Asher used to have a whole section of musical influences pertaining =

to the Beats in Literary Kicks. Things like Steely Dan's name from WB =

and many others. Some really obscure. I'm sure it is still there.

Oh, one of my favorites is a THEY MIGHT BE GIANTS song that begins with =

"I saw the best minds of my generation..." and talks about censorship " =

I should be allowed to hang my poster" or something.=20

I just remember that there were literally hundreds of different =

refrences in Kicks and that I was quite amazed.

 

----------

From:   Diane M. Homza[SMTP:ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu]

Sent:   Friday, May 30, 1997 5:16 PM

To:     Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L

Subject:        Kerouac in the Top 40

 

Reply to message from e.lytle@CED.UTAH.EDU of Thu, 29 May

>

>>

>> andrew, what is 10,000 Maniacs? They do a song entitled Jack Kerouac.

>>

>

>        10,000 Maniacs broke up several years ago.  It's more likely to =

be

>Morphine,  the three-man,  sax-bass-drums combo,  from the Joy, Kicks

>CD.

 

There's the 10,000 Maniacs song, the Morphine song...anyone know of any

other songs referring to the Beats?

 

Diane.

 

--

"This is Beat.  Live your lives out?  Naw, _love_ your lives out!"

                                                        --Jack Kerouac

Diane Marie Homza

ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 03:39:13 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leitha Sackmann <lsackma@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Music...

 

At 11:29 PM 5/30/97 -0400, Bruce Hartman wrote:

 

>How about Kurt Vonnegut and light-hearted polka?

>

>Bruce

 

hmmm...i just had an epiphany! My favorite Polka song is so perfectly made

for Jack kerouac.  And all this time ive never realized this. ha. lyrics:

 

        In heaven there is no beer

        That's h-why we drink it here

        And when we are gone from here

        Our friends will be drinking all the beer.

 

it's by Li'l Wally.  I forget what the name of it is but those are the only

lyrics.

god, i gotta go to bed

 

matt

 

 

*****************************************************************

 

"Everyone takes the limits of his own vision

         for the limits of the world."

 

                                Arthur Schopenhauer

 

*****************************************************************

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 04:06:05 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leitha Sackmann <lsackma@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>

Subject:      Ginsberg memorial

 

Okay.  no one said that they were at the concert so im gonna tel you all

about it.

It was AMAZING.  First of all, many Tibetan Buddhists came out and chanted a

prayer and it was very beautiful and then a friend of Allen's read the

Kaddish and some other stuff.

Then a girl sang "Amazing Grace"

Then Anne Waldman read.  She's awesome.

Then the poetry contest winner (coincidentally a friend of Allen's) read.

Then a good friend of Allen's read "On Fame and Death" and "Gone gone gone"

(another poem allen wrote on his deathbed.  yuck, dont like that word)

Then natalie merchant came out (YAY!!)  and spoke a little about allen.  she

said "well, a few years a go I made the poet's cardinal sin.  I used a word

only because it rymed.  The word was "jaded."  The song was "Hey Jack

Kerouac." "  So she goes on to say that she eventually met allen and

realized he was not jaded at all but before she met him he set her a copy of

_Howl_   Inscribed within:

 

        "Jaded?  Hardly."

 

With a drawing of an "erect penis ejaculating triumphantly" (Natalie's words)

 

So she dedicated the first song to allen.  it was a song she had just

written a week a go, and mind you, i am a BIG 10,000 Maniacs and Natalie

merchant fan, but the song was the most beautiful song ive heard come from

this wonderful woman's lips.  Next she played "These are Days" and then

"Wonder."

 

Patti Smith came on next and said many kind words about Allen and actually

turned the footnote to Howl into a song which was great.

 

After the show my brother and i hung outside trying to talk to natalie

merchant.  she finally came out and all the people hounded her for pictures

and autographs.  I was going to ask her to sign my copy of Howl but then i

thought that was almost sacreligious and autographs are kinda stupid anyway.

So as she was leaving i walked up to her and thanked her for clearing up the

whole jaded business and i told her that it was her song "Hey Jack kerouac"

that originally turned me on to the Beats (it did), and you could really see

her eyes light up and she got happy and just started talking about allen and

said sometimes he would say "Hey, I'm famous.  natalie merchant wrote a song

about me."  I forgot most of the rest of the stuff she said cause i was so

damn nervous and i was in such awe standing their talking to Natalie.  it

was a great night.

 

and then after the show my brother and i smoked a little wacky tobaccy and

wandered around Ann Arbor in the rain, splashing in fountains and just

acting childish.  it was such a great night until we got pulled over by cops

and they wanted to see my license and our registration which was in the

glovebox along with some other stuff that they didnt want to see (Damn, i am

so stupid to put stuff like that in the glovebox).  So i leaned over and

quickly opened the box and kinda his the pipe and the bag with my hand and

dug under all the maps and stuff and grabbed the registration.  Cop asked us

what we were in Ann Arbor for and i told him we had just gone to the Allen

Ginsberg tribute and at the time i thought "DOH, i shouldn't have told him

that.  Now they'll surely give us trouble."  i could hear him saying "OH, so

you're one of those Beat folks.  Please step out of the car."  And they

started giving me trouble about not having shoes on and i thought we were in

for it.  But luckily they let us go with only a warning.  Must've been the

spirit of Allen protecting us from the evil Moloch.

 

im babbling.  good night.

 

                matt

 

 

*****************************************************************

 

"Everyone takes the limits of his own vision

         for the limits of the world."

 

                                Arthur Schopenhauer

 

*****************************************************************

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 03:28:45 -0600

Reply-To:     stand666@bitstream.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         R&R Houff <stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>

Subject:      Minneapolis and the Beats

 

Hello Antoine,

 

I still play a lot of slide guitar on a Circa, 1937, Dobro and a '31

National Steel guitar. If picking, I play a J-51 Gibson Flat-top and

for strumming open tunings, a Guild 12 string. I'm back playing after

a 17 year absence. Unfortunately, I took a knife wound thru my left

hand outside of a Southside club in Chicago. After all these dormant

years (I had no feeling in my hand) from nerve damage, I am now happy

to report that some feeling has returned=97and I'm back on the stage! No

recordings=97yet, but I'll keep you posted. In answer to the beat

influence in the TC area way-back-when, I would have to say yes. As a

kid, I packed up and ran away with Kenneth Patchen's Love Poems (City

Lights edition) in my guitar case. In the middle '60's you could still

rent one-dollar a night hotel rooms downtown. I was fortunate enough

to get a room across from an old & rare book shop on the corner of 12 th

& Nicollet. That's where I discovered the beats and from the local

coffeehouse crowds I picked-up on Ginsberg whom I met in '72 (Madison,

WI)=97but that's another story. In answer to reading and music gigs com-

bined, yes, they were still happening but not as much I'm told. Tony

Glover was real hip to the scene and a helluva good harp player. I can

play harp=97but that cat would bury me! I dedicated my book After Hours

(poems) to Leo Kottke and a flask of whiskey found outside the Scholar

on a cold October night in '68. Now that the book is out of print, I

just now realized that Leo never got a copy. The readings and music

are back and it feels pretty good. The Turf Club in St. Paul, has a=20

Cabaret scene. Hell, I can be playing slide while a lady juggles

machetes=97the scene is wild and damn near anything goes.=20

 

Richard Houff

Pariah Press

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 06:47:11 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Words

In-Reply-To:  <199705301742.KAA04132@freya.van.hookup.net>

 

and a loverly bunch of words that is, james william

great tour de force

mc

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 06:47:18 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      and the beat(ing) goes on.(nicosia/chaput)

In-Reply-To:  <199705310017.RAA10975@italy.it.earthlink.net>

 

just when i thought it was safe to tell beat-l refugees out there, fingers

virtually gripping side of virtual life boats.....ready to call all outs in

free, and again the posts begin

arrrhhhhgggghhhhhhhh!

mc

and all the SHOUTING in the caps,  giving me a headache.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 06:47:22 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Ginsberg memorial

In-Reply-To:  <1.5.4.16.19970531040917.1ad77ae6@uoft02.utoledo.edu>

 

many many thanks, matt

this was wonderful to wake up to this morning.

mc

ps whose leitha?

or,

thanks, leitha!

who the hell's matt?

mornng came earlier than ussual today...

and i'm outta coffee

(whine)

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 08:21:45 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: this beat list

 

In a message dated 97-05-30 23:16:27 EDT, you write:

 

<<

 synapses twist through backyard memory

 tangled and ending on empty   >>

 

this is how i would say it if you care....hope you don't mind the editing,

tell me if it bothers you

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 08:44:19 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: cancership or just boring bile

 

In a message dated 97-05-31 03:08:52 EDT, you write:

 

<<

 One of the interesting observations for me is the fear and loathing that

 beat literature and beatophiles seem to bring out.  I have to say i have

 enjoyed the poetry posting that have been made but fear that they may

 not be all be actually beat.  yet i am not a great one to know right off

 what is beat. >>

 

Not that I'm an expert, but as far as i can tell the thing that was most

important to the beats was experimentation.  So if you experiment and once in

a while you like what turns up and you keep it, and you believe in their

general philosophy of art and writing, that is a very beat M.O.

However, that is only my opinion, and i am not a Believer that there is a

unique thing called "beat" that only belongs to 4 or 5 people, or however

many beats there are supposed to be.  Those peoples' styles are very

different and can also blur together with other poets from earlier and later

times.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 08:41:04 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      link page

 

If anyone is interested, I have my beat link page under construction.

It is infantile in status, but is up nonetheless. I am trying out some

new editors, Hot Metal Pro and HomeSite.  But it looks like I may break

down and reinstall and use Hot Dog.  It is better than I think it is.

 

Peace,

 

Beat as You Want to Beat is the link off the url below.

 

Peace,

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 08:47:41 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Music...

 

In a message dated 97-05-31 06:53:42 EDT, you write:

 

<<

 "Everyone takes the limits of his own vision

          for the limits of the world."

 

                                 Arthur Schopenhauer

  >>

Schopenhauer believed that women had a natural power of dissimulation and

that's why men have beards.....to hide their facial features because without

them they're such bad liars.  At least that's what i got out of his book.

 Did i get it wrong?

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 08:56:09 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: CENSORSHIP SUCKS THE BIG ONE

 

In a message dated 97-05-31 02:33:11 EDT, you write:

 

<<  I ask you- How

 long did your father jerk off in the flower pot to raise a blooming idiot

 like you? You know what Gerry I don't give a fiddler's fuck if I get thrown

 off the list cause listening to you makes me sick anyway.  Take those rules

 about censorship print it out, roll it into a ball and SHOVE IT UP YOUR ASS.

 A person can only take so much. UNCENSORED IN LOWELL - Phil Chaput

  >>

 

Why don't you too faggots e-mail each other instead of bombarding us innocent

listees with your petty drivel? Why do you, Phil, live in such a godforsaken

shithole as Lowell mass.?  Why bother with this list if all you can do is

yell?  why not just un-subscribe? Is your life so dull that you need the

internet to get your aggressions out? Why don't you just ignore or delete

Gerry's messages and vice versa if you don't like him?

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 09:05:09 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: Music...

 

Maya Gorton wrote:

 

> In a message dated 97-05-31 06:53:42 EDT, you write:

>

> <<

>  "Everyone takes the limits of his own vision

>           for the limits of the world."

>

>                                  Arthur Schopenhauer

>   >>

> Schopenhauer believed that women had a natural power of dissimulation

> and

> that's why men have beards.....to hide their facial features because

> without

> them they're such bad liars.  At least that's what i got out of his

> book.

>  Did i get it wrong?

 

 Never read Schopy, but you post Maya has me ROTFLMAO.  But, personally,

I think men are better liars than you give them credit for here.  Well,

I was lying but can you tell which part is the lie and which is the

truth.  So come to think of it, email is as good as a beard, only

better.

 

Peace,

 

:-)

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 09:14:56 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Maya Gorton <Marioka7@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Music...

 

In a message dated 97-05-31 09:11:39 EDT, you write:

 

<<

  Never read Schopy, but you post Maya has me ROTFLMAO.  But, personally,

 I think men are better liars than you give them credit for here.  Well,

 I was lying but can you tell which part is the lie and which is the

 truth.  So come to think of it, email is as good as a beard, only

 better.

  >>

I know..you''re not REALLY rotflmao! Right?  e-mail is better than a beard

for sure...i've been told so many unsolicited tall tales already on the

internet.  stories of murder and drug money, glamour and wishful fame.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 08:22:20 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: this beat list

 

Maya Gorton wrote:

>

> In a message dated 97-05-30 23:16:27 EDT, you write:

>

> <<

>  synapses twist through backyard memory

>  tangled and ending on empty   >>

>

> this is how i would say it if you care....hope you don't mind the editing,

> tell me if it bothers you

 

if it was me i don't recall what i typed in the first place.

 

synapses twisted makes sense but not only twisting going on i wish

medicare covered for a pet-scan ...:)

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 08:40:16 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and Why?

 

                                                May 31, 1997

Maya Gorton writes:

>Why don't you too faggots e-mail each other instead of bombarding us innocent

>listees with your petty drivel?

 

Dear Maya,

        I have been happily married to my second wife (a woman) for five years.

        I don't care to exchange libelous exchanges with Mr. Chaput on or

off the list.

        Mr. Gargan and several others, including myself, have tried very

hard to get the dialogue on this List back within legal and civilized

parameters, i.e., to get rid of the libel, slander, defamation, and printing

of people's private letters, which is also illegal.

        Every time we do, Mr. Chaput or one of his allies, like Mr. Maher,

comes back with a tirade of verbal abuse and verbal assault against me--the

same tactics, by the way, that were used to try to shut down Brad Parker and

his independent Kerouac events in Lowell.

        At the same time, Mr. Chaput and a few others have been quick to

point their finger at me as the person who is destroying the Beat-List.

        The reality is: MR. CHAPUT AND HIS COHORTS ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE

ENDANGERING THIS LIST.

        They are putting me in the untenable position of 1) either having to

leave the list myself; or 2) take legal action against Brooklyn College and

the Beat-List for distributing this libelous material--NEITHER OF WHICH I

WANT TO DO.

        I.e., either I allow the bullies to win yet another victory (like

the victory they won when they dragged a 100-pound invalid, Jan Kerouac, out

of the Jack Kerouac Conference at NYU) or I do possible harm to the Beat

forum which all of you enjoy so much.

        I do not like being put in this position.  And I suggest if you

really care about the Beat-List--all of you--that you tell Mr. Chaput and

Mr. Maher now that you want them TO IMMEDIATELY STOP CREATING THIS DANGEROUS

DILEMMA.

        You might ask yourself, why are they doing this?

        As you say, if they don't like my messages, they can simply delete

them.  I am not writing anything that is a verbal assault on their career,

their personal life, etc., as they are doing to me.

        The truth is, I believe, that they (for certain very definite

political reasons) cannot stand the idea that Gerald Nicosia is on the Beat

List and able to speak to 200 Beat fans and scholars in a quiet, reasonable

forum.

        So they have determined to get me off in any way they can--and the

only way they know how is to act as bullies.  It is the way that has worked

for them so far.  But I am determined it is not going to work for them this

time.

        Thanks for listening.

        Best always, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 11:58:09 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Mark Hemenway <mhemenway@S1.DRC.COM>

Subject:      Lowell Kerouac Festival

 

Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc

P.O. Box 1111, Lowell, MA 01853

 

10th ANNUAL FESTIVAL CELEBRATES JACK KEROUAC'S VISION OF LOWELL

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE                   PRESS CONTACT:

MAY 27, 1997                            Mark Hemenway:

                                        Day: 508-475-9090 ext 1239

                                        Evening: 508-458-1721

 

                                        PUBLIC INQUIRIES:

                                        1-800-443-3332

                                        508-458-1721

 

(Lowell, MA) The 10th Annual Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! Festival will take

place 2- 5 October in Lowell, MA. This year's theme will be Kerouac

Celebrates Lowell. We will celebrate and explore the real and the mythic

Lowell., Massachusetts that Kerouac brought to life in his writing.

 

The people and places of Lowell are central to Kerouac's work. Five of his

novels describe his childhood and youth in the city, and images and

references to his hometown appear in virtually every one of his works. His

descriptions of Lowell are remarkable for their beauty, power and

timelessness. Through them, millions of readers have come to know Lowell

as a universal hometown. Join us as we walk the wrinkly tar sidewalks and

redbrick alleys that Jack Kerouac wrote about in his novels and poetry.

 

Full Press Release Attached

 

 

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(+BX-"@T*#0IS

`

end

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 11:50:49 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         MORE OXY THAN MORON <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject:      Burroughs collection

 

In case anyone is interested (for future reference), the special collections

dept at Ohio State now has the biggest collection of Burroughs material in the

US. James Grauerholtz, secretary to WSB is in town, dropping off a truckload of

boxes (Maya, very little to do with anthropology). We had dinner last night

along with John Giorno, David Ohle and John Geiger who is working on a

biography of Brion Gysin. WSB is doing fine at the moment, John Giorno is

slated to be in Louiseville this September (did you get him to come Ron?) and

is a great performer if you have never seen him. Finally, the Burroughs

collection should be available for use as soon as it is cataloged and sorted

which might take 2 or three more months (at least).

 

Dave B.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 10:52:35 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Re: Burroughs collection

 

patricia wrote,

great news, i love it being in the midwest. what was for dinner.

 

MORE OXY THAN MORON wrote:

>

> In case anyone is interested (for future reference), the special collections

> dept at Ohio State now has the biggest collection of Burroughs material in the

> US. James Grauerholtz, secretary to WSB is in town, dropping off a truckload

 of

> boxes (Maya, very little to do with anthropology). We had dinner last night

> along with John Giorno, David Ohle and John Geiger who is working on a

> biography of Brion Gysin. WSB is doing fine at the moment, John Giorno is

> slated to be in Louiseville this September (did you get him to come Ron?) and

> is a great performer if you have never seen him. Finally, the Burroughs

> collection should be available for use as soon as it is cataloged and sorted

> which might take 2 or three more months (at least).

>

> Dave B.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 10:58:18 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject:      Gerald Nicosia

 

Please stay on the list, you showed strength, purpose and honor with

your recent postings.  I know it is hard to pass up the response or the

aside when you know that much that you love and care about is cheapened

or slandered but oppinions of substance make this listing worthwhile,

you are valuable to me.

patricia

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 09:15:47 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James William Marshall <iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>

Subject:      Pulp Fiction

 

Sean,

     I actually happen to know, or believe that I know, what was in the

briefcase in Pulp Fiction.  The topic came up on another list to which I belong.

A guy who had a friend who interviewed Tarantino (<--this is why I "believe"

that I know") said that he asked Tarantino the same question.  First I

should mention that I love the movie and have seen it more times than I'd

care to admit.  I had noticed that the combination for the briefcase was

'666' and that everyone who got to look at it was mesmerized and seemed to

know what it was:  "Is that what I think it is?".  Anyway, it turns out that

the briefcase holds the soul of the character Ving Rhames plays.  Remember

all those scenes with him having a Band-Aid on the back of his head?

Apparently it's mentioned in the Bible somewhere that that's where the Devil

takes your soul from.  So you don't have to feel bad when John Travolta and

Samuel L. Jackson shoot up those kids in that appartment because they're

only killing Satan's minions and I think that's justifiable homicide in most

states.  Also, remember the theological discussion Jackson and Travolta have

over "divine intervention"?  Well Jackson was right.

     An interesting side note:  In Malaysia they apparently re-edited the

film to try to create a linear narrative because they thought movie-goers

would feel ripped off otherwise.

                                                   James M.

P.S.  Don't know how this is beat.  Apologies to everyone who isn't interested.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 12:26:31 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         henry <luckfry@NETWAY1.MDC.NET>

Subject:      test only

 

test only

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 12:31:59 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         henry <luckfry@NETWAY1.MDC.NET>

Subject:      test

 

test

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 10:39:42 +0000

Reply-To:     annie@rt66.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         annie shank <annie@RT66.COM>

Organization: you can't be serious

Subject:      Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and Why?

 

Hey, I just got here.  And I was hoping to find further discourse of the

kind I enjoyed with Lee Bartlett for an entire semester just past.  And

what do I find?

 

                                        Usenet

 

Get a grip, folks.  Can we talk about the literature for a change?  Can

we try fitting it against other things, and talking about the part that

just won't fit and insists on slopping over the edges?

 

I feel like I've walked in on a stock rehearsal of "Who's Afraid of

Virginia Woolf".....

 

annie                                                           annie@rt66.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 12:39:59 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: Gerald Nicosia

 

Patricia Elliott wrote:

 

> Please stay on the list, you showed strength, purpose and honor with

> your recent postings.  I know it is hard to pass up the response or

> the

> aside when you know that much that you love and care about is

> cheapened

> or slandered but oppinions of substance make this listing worthwhile,

> you are valuable to me.

> patricia

 

 ditto, here, but I think you can let it slide.  It eventually will get

tiresome for those who attack you and your work.

 

To the list, if you have attacks to make on Gerry, or you want to say

something to him about what a slime he is, then say it to him, not on

the list.

 

To Gerry:

 

Let it slide, I have to shake my head in wonder each time I see someone

make these bizarre statements about you.  Noone on the list, that I have

seen, other than about three or so, seems to place any creedence in

these posts.

 

To Phil:

 

Some of your posts are very good and I appreciate them.   I do not want

you to leave the list or get kicked off.  But you only harm yourself

every time you do it, why as Jerry Jeff Walker said want to "Piss in the

wind, cause then it's blowing on all your friends."

 

Whatever effect you desire, it is personal, and if you are right, you

are losing the opportunity to prove it as you embarrass yourself with

such undignified comments.

 

Peace, and I have begun revisions and revisions of my web site, you all

are invited.

 

Peace,

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 12:50:43 -0400

Reply-To:     "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Diane M. Homza" <ek242@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>

Subject:      Be-Bop Do-Wap-Wap

 

To everyone who provided me with info on Beat-related songs:  thank you so

much!  And yes, i did check out Levi's sight; I'm printing off the 23 pages

of music-related info right now.  I had this hair-brained idea to put

together my own private collection of Beat-inspired songs during my lazy

hazy (yeah, right!) days of summer; looks like I may have enough for my own

box-set.  Now that would be a way to pay for grad school...

 

If anyone's interested in my progress, ask & I'll let you know how it goes.

:)

 

Diane.

 

--

"This is Beat.  Live your lives out?  Naw, _love_ your lives out!"

                                                        --Jack Kerouac

Diane Marie Homza

ek242@cleveland.freenet.edu

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 13:15:51 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Cosmic Baseball Association <cosmic@CLARK.NET>

Subject:      Re: Current subscribers

 

Hello Fred,

 

Thanks for the post.  Is this a record?

 

Regards,

Andrew Lampert

cosmic@clark.net

 

 

>As of this moment (9:36am EDT, May 30) there are 248 subscribers to

>beat-l.

>

>fred

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 10:51:19 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and Why?

 

                                        May 31, 1997

Annie Shank writes:

>Hey, I just got here.  And I was hoping to find further discourse of the

>kind I enjoyed with Lee Bartlett for an entire semester just past...

...   Can we talk about the literature for a change?

 

Annie,

        I couldn't agree with you more.  But do you want to belong to a

Beat-List where a gang of 2 or 3 bullies can force anyone off the list,

whenever they so choose, just by applying an endless, unchecked stream of

verbal abuse to that targeted person?

        There's been a lot of hoo-ha about free speech and censorship in Mr.

Chaput's past few posts.  There is nothing in the U.S. Constitution that

guarantees one person the right to verbally abuse and/or verbally damage

another person.  To claim that one has the right to libel and verbally

assault another person ("Hey, you dirty Jew!"  "Hey, you dirty nigger!"

"Hey, you dirty wop!") is a lot closer to fascism than the democracy I grew

up learning about.

        I want to talk about literature too, but I also want a Beat-List

where I'm free to speak sound, rational, level-headed opinions--even if it's

about the Kerouac Estate--without two or three guys jumping at me with

vicious verbal attacks on my career, my personal life, my income, and

anything else they can think of.

        Don't you want that too?

        Respectfully, Gerald Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 13:33:05 +0000

Reply-To:     jhasbro@tezcat.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         JWHasbrouck <jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>

Subject:      Re: All things

 

Gerald Nicosia wrote:

 

>>John Hasbrouck writes:

>>        "All things considered, I think the Beat-L list is far more

>>interesting now than it has been at any time during the last two years or so

...."

 

>        John,

>       You mean I didn't murder the Beat-List?  I'm crushed.

>        Yours in failure,

>        Gerald Nicosia

 

Gerry,

On the contrary - all issues, flames and partisanship aside - you, Mr.

Nicosia, in your own inimitable and fabulously impudent way, have

resuscitated and resurrected this list from a deathlike and dronish

blandness consisting of <Is So-and-So Beat?>, <What Should I Read?> and

<Who's The Greatest POvErT Of The 20th Century?>-type posts, all of

which are eminently deletable. Any Devoted Reader Of Books who can't

deal with the stench of dirty laundry coming from a Classic Legal

Dispute over a great literary estate is no better than Mr. Sampas trying

to keep the world from knowing that Kerouac sucked cock and drowned in

booze.

 

I hope this rant doesn't kill my chances of being elected LurkMeister.

 

John Hasbrouck, BiblioFool

Chicago

 

P.S. Y'all read <The Scandal of Ulysses>?

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 14:33:25 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Posey  - Ode to NJ

 

As everyone is posting their Posey this week and there's been discussion

about loving/hating New York I thought I'd drop one on you I wrote in 1990

after taking a one year temporary assignment to the East.  I worked in NY and

lived in NJ where we had a very pleasant stay. Here is what I saw:

 

 

                     ODE TO NJ

 

With your smoke stacked belchers by the river

And your drivers in cars nasty

And forever honking tho nowhere near as bad

As them New Yorkers cross river

 

With your tiny towns and full treed spaces

And two lane roads where little animals

Try to cross and get nailed

By furious drivers too lazy to swerve

 

I watch you New Jersey

I watch and I listen and I learn

As only a dispassionate temporary citizen

Can do

 

I watch you New Jersey

As your inhabitants claw at one another

And snipe at one another

And want to screw one another

But don't because of AIDS

 

I watch as pitiful old people

Take their savings to AC casinos

Only to come home drunk and stupid

On the bus

 

I watch as those haughty New Yorkers

Try to impress upon you

How superior they are to you

And you believe them

 

I watch

As every one of your kids

Has an angle and has a plan

And nothing comes to nothing

 

 

What is it with you New Jersey?

Are you really the doormat

Of the Tri-State area

Or the doormat of America instead?

 

Do you represent

All that is good and bad

In the country?  The world?

In Life?

 

America needs you New Jersey

America needs a place that will take all the shit

And live in the squalor

And keep on smiling

 

Keep on smiling New Jersey

What care you that they laugh at you

And they snort at you

And look down their noses at you

 

What care you that you're always trying

And always hustling

Only to be left lying supine

Creamed on

Like a teenage princess of the night

 

Every whore has her reasons

 

 

 

 

Jerry Cimino

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 14:53:50 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Dawn B. Sova" <DawnDR@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Posey - Ode to NJ

 

Dear Jerry:

 

>From the great state of New Jersey -- I salute you (having lived here -- can

you be sure of my meaning and manner of my salute????)

 

Truly, the home of Walt Whitman and of Allen Ginsberg (to name only two --

but the two whose cadence and rhythm you seem to have captured very well in

your "Ode to NJ") has found a new champion -- why did you omit the "big hair"

of which we are also so very proud???

 

NOW - SHIFTING GEARS--

Wish you could join us for the Allen memorial in Paterson on June 8th --- a

coup after all of the anti-Allen hype that flowed from politicos following

his death when such a memorial was proposed.  Sometimes right triumphs.

 

Dawn

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 15:14:42 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Ginsberg tribute in new Shambhala Sun

 

There's a great tribute to AG in the new (July 97) issue

of Shambhala Sun.  Check it out folx.  Also, one in the

new issue of Tricyclic.

 

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 14:30:58 -0600

Reply-To:     stand666@bitstream.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         R&R Houff <stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>

Subject:      Delta

 

Hello John,

 

Leo is a real nice guy and it's good to hear that you're a Bukka

White fan. I met Bukka in Cleveland, MS, a number of years ago and

could that man play a slide-pure fire. The guy I'm referring to is

Catfish McDaris the poet and storyteller. He's got an excellent

read out from Angelflesh Press, called "Catfish In The Pecos."

 

Richard Houff

Pariah Press

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 15:39:06 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject:      Ginsberg tribute in new Shambhala Sun

 

Hmm, sent this and got a notice I'm not subscribed

(directly after I downloaded my beat-l mail), so I'll

try again, in case it is lost in the void.

 

The new issue (July 97) of Shambhala Sun has a

great AG tribute in it (quite lengthy).  Check it out folx.

Also, the new Tricyclic does as well (very short though).

 

Mike

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 15:20:26 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         John Mitchell <mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>

Subject:      Cranial Guitar

In-Reply-To:  <338FEF4B.102C@bitstream.net>

 

True to the virus that is my word, I put on my Birkenstocks (pale feet,

unglued soles at the tips) this Sat. morn and went to the Hungry Mind,

there got the only copy of Cranial Guitar.

 

1.  Scholarly question:  I had not heard of the publication until the past

few days on the BList, and the copyright date says 1996.  Has the book been

out for months, or just delayed in release and distribution?  If out for

long, why no previous reference on the BList?

 

"ENGPOP, ENGPOP, BOP, PLOLO, PLOLO, BOP, BOP."

 

Bob Kauffmann, "Crootey Songo"

 

Great!  Am loooking forward to loving the book (got Solitudes Crowded with

Loneliness long ago at City Lights, & have always loved the Frank O'Hara

type title, Golden Sardine--just great with silver crackers and beer).

Thanks to all who've helped keep this solitary Beat strumming.

 

2.  Scholarly (M. A.--in English!) question:  Gerry Nicosia (I love you,

man.), who chose the title for these Selected Poems you edited--you,

Kauffmann, who?  Why, beyond the obvious, etc.?

 

Then I went across the hall to The Table of Contents to sip and browse

$1.25

plus .09 tax

FRESH ROASTED COFFEE

(A BOTTOMLESS MUG OF OUR OWN BLEND)

when what to my wondering eyes these lines:

 

I dreamed I went to John Mitchell's poetry party

in my maidenform brain

 

Holy! Cow

 

3.  Scholarly question:  Who is this interloper, me?  (A joke; my poetry

always wears bras, but I was shocked to discover it had been outted!  I

always knew I would be a famous Beat someday, but should have known it

would not be the real me.)

 

I unsubscribe tomorrow, so please answer scholarly questions soon.  (And no

flames, unless scholarly marshmellows are provided.)

 

John M.

 

Also I wrote this pome on the sack while sitting at the counter.

 

It's Up To You

 

Whatever it was I am

I am happy to be

Even childhood sores

 

Butterflies for several days

Thousands

Just flapping/black & orange

 

Wherever they have gone

I want to go

And be

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 17:45:49 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leitha Sackmann <lsackma@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Music...

 

At 08:47 AM 5/31/97 -0400, Maya Gorton wrote:

>In a message dated 97-05-31 06:53:42 EDT, you write:

>

><<

> "Everyone takes the limits of his own vision

>          for the limits of the world."

>

>                                 Arthur Schopenhauer

>  >>

>Schopenhauer believed that women had a natural power of dissimulation and

>that's why men have beards.....to hide their facial features because without

>them they're such bad liars.  At least that's what i got out of his book.

> Did i get it wrong?

>

hmmm...I don't know.  that's my mom's signature file, i dont really know

Schopenhauer at all.

but sounds interesting...

 

matt

 

 

*****************************************************************

 

"Everyone takes the limits of his own vision

         for the limits of the world."

 

                                Arthur Schopenhauer

 

*****************************************************************

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 18:09:20 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeanne Vaccaro <SlugBug747@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Posey - Ode to NJ

 

Well I also live in Jersey (my brain's small and my hairs tall). Jersey

really is the most awful place on earth. I live about 7 minuets from NYC, so

naturally I spend all my time their, including going to school their. You

forgot to mention that Springstien wrote about Jersey. The GW Bridge is my

nemesiss. Later.

love(and other indoor sports)jeanne.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 17:56:57 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         talk dirty to me <mutton@JANE.PENN.COM>

Subject:      Re: Pulp Fiction

 

thanks

i was very interested

that makes that scene so much cooler

again, gratzi

jeremy

 

----------

: From: James William Marshall <iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>

: To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

: Subject: Pulp Fiction

: Date: Saturday, May 31, 1997 11:15 AM

:

: Sean,

:      I actually happen to know, or believe that I know, what was in the

: briefcase in Pulp Fiction.  The topic came up on another list to which I

belong.

: A guy who had a friend who interviewed Tarantino (<--this is why I

"believe"

: that I know") said that he asked Tarantino the same question.  First I

: should mention that I love the movie and have seen it more times than I'd

: care to admit.  I had noticed that the combination for the briefcase was

: '666' and that everyone who got to look at it was mesmerized and seemed

to

: know what it was:  "Is that what I think it is?".  Anyway, it turns out

that

: the briefcase holds the soul of the character Ving Rhames plays.

Remember

: all those scenes with him having a Band-Aid on the back of his head?

: Apparently it's mentioned in the Bible somewhere that that's where the

Devil

: takes your soul from.  So you don't have to feel bad when John Travolta

and

: Samuel L. Jackson shoot up those kids in that appartment because they're

: only killing Satan's minions and I think that's justifiable homicide in

most

: states.  Also, remember the theological discussion Jackson and Travolta

have

: over "divine intervention"?  Well Jackson was right.

:      An interesting side note:  In Malaysia they apparently re-edited the

: film to try to create a linear narrative because they thought movie-goers

: would feel ripped off otherwise.

:                                                    James M.

: P.S.  Don't know how this is beat.  Apologies to everyone who isn't

interested.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 18:36:11 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Dawn B. Sova" <DawnDR@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Posey - Ode to NJ

 

RE:  Jeanne Vaccaro's mention of Springsteen also writing about NJ -- true --

but Jerry's C.'s cadences don't match his, so despite my deep and desperate

love for BRUUUUUUUCE (who retains his Rumson mansion, but spends too many

months in his L.A. mansion -- complete with separate cottage for nanny and

little Springsteen's), he seemed "unmentionable."

 

However -- the fantastic PATERSON - written by Wm. Carlos Wms. - fits in.

 But Philip Roth (Jersey Fresh) doesn't), and so on.

 

Anyway - I thought that Jerry C. had the sound.

 

Dawn

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 18:47:33 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Posey - Ode to NJ

 

I mis-spent my senior year at college listening to Greetings from Asbury Park

and The Wild The Innocent & The E Street Shuffle.  We danced to Rosalita 'til

dawn many 'a night!  The first date my wife and I had was to a Bruce concert

in DC.  Discovery of JK came a year later.

 

JC

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 18:57:20 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>

Subject:      jeopardy and them crazy beat-niks

 

Hello, surprised no one mentioned this but then again not --

 

a few nights ago, on the game show jeopardy, one of the questions was:

(something like) This author of Howl released a CD entitled Ballad of the

Skeletons in 1996.

 

answer(response):

Who is Allen Ginsberg?

 

 

 

Eric

personal recommendation: don't watch jeopardy stoned.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 16:05:42 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: Cranial Guitar

 

At 03:20 PM 5/31/97 -0600, you wrote:

>True to the virus that is my word, I put on my Birkenstocks (pale feet,

>unglued soles at the tips) this Sat. morn and went to the Hungry Mind,

>there got the only copy of Cranial Guitar.

>

>1.  Scholarly question:  I had not heard of the publication until the past

>few days on the BList, and the copyright date says 1996.  Has the book been

>out for months, or just delayed in release and distribution?  If out for

>long, why no previous reference on the BList?

>

>"ENGPOP, ENGPOP, BOP, PLOLO, PLOLO, BOP, BOP."

>

>Bob Kauffmann, "Crootey Songo"

>

>Great!  Am loooking forward to loving the book (got Solitudes Crowded with

>Loneliness long ago at City Lights, & have always loved the Frank O'Hara

>type title, Golden Sardine--just great with silver crackers and beer).

>Thanks to all who've helped keep this solitary Beat strumming.

>

>2.  Scholarly (M. A.--in English!) question:  Gerry Nicosia (I love you,

>man.), who chose the title for these Selected Poems you edited--you,

>Kauffmann, who?  Why, beyond the obvious, etc.?

>

>Then I went across the hall to The Table of Contents to sip and browse

>$1.25

>plus .09 tax

>FRESH ROASTED COFFEE

>(A BOTTOMLESS MUG OF OUR OWN BLEND)

>when what to my wondering eyes these lines:

>

>I dreamed I went to John Mitchell's poetry party

>in my maidenform brain

>

>Holy! Cow

>

>3.  Scholarly question:  Who is this interloper, me?  (A joke; my poetry

>always wears bras, but I was shocked to discover it had been outted!  I

>always knew I would be a famous Beat someday, but should have known it

>would not be the real me.)

>

>I unsubscribe tomorrow, so please answer scholarly questions soon.  (And no

>flames, unless scholarly marshmellows are provided.)

>

>John M.

 

Dear John,    May 31, 1997

 

        Eileen Kaufman, Bob's widow, picked out about six or seven possible

titles from lines in Bob's poems.  Her favorite was "INTO CRACKLING

BLUENESS," which is a Kaufman paraphrase of one of his own favorite poets,

Lorca.  But the publisher preferred "CRANIAL GUITAR," from a poem where Bob

says "My head is a cranial guitar," etc.  (Forgot which poem.)

        Don't know who the John Mitchell was that Bob refers to--surely one

of the many North Beach pre-Beatniks of the late 50's, and there were many.

Maybe I'll ask Eileen next time I see her.

        What city do you live in, anyway?

        As for no mention of it on the Beat List, I haven't seen mention of

Ferlinghetti's latest either--A FAR ROCKAWAY OF THE HEART, which was just

released from New Directions.  I haven't been a big fan of Lawrence's recent

stuff, last few years, but this book IS DYNAMITE, THE BEST STUFF HE'S

WRITTEN IN 30-40 YEARS.  There's a four-page poem to Ezra Pound that is ONE

OF THE FINEST POEMS OLD LARRY HAS EVER PENNED (IMHO).  A few lines:

 

        "At worst an old man's mumbled jumble

        of erudicities and profundities

        by turns noble and incoherent

        Scatter of rain on a mansard roof

        mixed with antique gossip

        ancient Tuscan account books

        and yesterday's conversations

        A garrulous gabble of

        crackerbarrel colloquial

        cobbled into the typography of poetry

        in canti that couldn't possibly be sung...."

 

Here's my favorite Kaufman poem from CRANIAL GUITAR:

 

        "My body is a torn mattress

        Disheveled throbbing place

        For the comings and goings

        Of loveless transients.

        The whole of me

        Is an unfurnished room

        FIlled with dank breath

        Escaping in gasps of nowhere.

        Before completely objective mirrors

        I have shot myself with my eyes,

        But death refused my advances.

        I have walked on my walls each night

        Through strange landscapes in my head.

        I have brushed my teeth with orange peel,

        Iced with cold blood from the dripping faucets.

        My face is covered with maps of dead nations;

        My hair is littered with drying ragweed.

        Bitter raisins drip from my nostrils

        While schools of glowing minnows swim from my mouth.

        The nipples of my breast are sun-browned cockleburrs;

        Long-forgotten Indian tribes fight battles on my chest

        Unaware of the sunken ships rotting in my stomach.

        My legs are charred remains of burned cypress trees;

        My feet are covered with moss from bayous, flowing across my floor.

        I can't go out anymore.

        I shall sit on my ceiling.

        Would you wear my eyes?"

 

        Tell me that's not grrrreeaaattt poetry!

 

        Best always, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 20:14:22 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and Why?

 

Gerald Nicosia wrote:

>

> I couldn't agree with you more.  But do you want to belong to a

> Beat-List where a gang of 2 or 3 bullies can force anyone off the list,

> whenever they so choose, just by applying an endless, unchecked stream of

> verbal abuse to that targeted person?

>         There's been a lot of hoo-ha about free speech and censorship in Mr.

> Chaput's past few posts.  There is nothing in the U.S. Constitution that

> guarantees one person the right to verbally abuse and/or verbally damage

> another person.  To claim that one has the right to libel and verbally

> assault another person ("Hey, you dirty Jew!"  "Hey, you dirty nigger!"

> "Hey, you dirty wop!") is a lot closer to fascism than the democracy I grew

> up learning about.

>         I want to talk about literature too, but I also want a Beat-List

> where I'm free to speak sound, rational, level-headed opinions--even if it's

> about the Kerouac Estate--without two or three guys jumping at me with

> vicious verbal attacks on my career, my personal life, my income, and

> anything else they can think of.

>         Don't you want that too?

>         Respectfully, Gerald Nicosia

 

No one will ever kill the beat list because it will refuse to die in the

same way beat literature refuses to die.  What you don't seem to realize

is that no one can "verbally damage" you unless "you" let them.  No

one can drive anyone off the list.  You can only leave of your own

free will.  I hope you don't.  But you have to lighten up a bit. You

should respect the intelligence of the people on the list.  You don't

have to refute everything that is said.  Most people can recognize

bullshit when they see it.  Let your book and your scholarship stand on

their own.  How can ignoring someone who calls you names possibly

damage your career?  In another post, you said you talked about two

options.

" They are putting me in the untenable position of 1) either having to

leave the list myself; or 2) take legal action against Brooklyn College

and

the Beat-List for distributing this libelous material--NEITHER OF WHICH I

WANT TO DO."

 

I've got to say that when I see the words "take legal action against

Brooklyn College and the Beat-List," it upsets me.  This is a public

forum and the people at Brooklyn College have been generous in their time

and commitment in giving the list a home.  Why don't you erase the anger

from your own posts and only respond in a rational, level-headed way.  If

you truly want to be respected here, stop engaging in the battle.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 1 Jun 1997 00:47:38 +0100

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Olly Ruff <or205@HERMES.CAM.AC.UK>

Subject:      the sniveler

 

well, it's saturday night, it's sunday morning, & I've still got

a beer, whatever, so here's some bukowski for you good people, at least

for those of you who haven't heard it already.

 

"THE SNIVELER", charles bukowski

 

"you're a sniveler, she said

you snivel when she doesn't call,

I phone you and you're shit-faced on wine.

 

I'm a baby, I said, then too I can't figure out

how anybody can live without me.

 

my god, she said, you really mean that ?

 

yes, I said.

 

oh my god, you're impossible, you big soft

baby's ass !

 

suck me off and maybe I can forget, help me

forget.

 

you big soft baby's ass !

 

I'm sensitive, yes, and how can anybody live

without me ?

 

she hung up.

 

well, I thought, there's two who can live without me.

there might be 2000, 2 million, 2 million

billion.

 

it was one of the most depressing thoughts I'd had

in years.

 

I went into my bedroom and stretched out and looked at

the ceiling.

 

I thought, well, I can masturbate, I can look at television,

and then there's suicide.

 

having already masturbated twice that day

I had two options left and

being a big soft baby's ass I

switched on the tv."

 

 

                        enjoy life,

 

                                        Olly R.

 

_______________________________________________________________________________

 

"Survival of the... *fittest* ? Was that the proper word ? Had Darwin ever

considered the idea of *temporary* unfitness ? Like "temporary insanity."

Could the Doctor have made room in his theory for a thing like LSD ?"

_______________________________________________________________________________

 

                           or205@hermes.cam.ac.uk

                              skink@imrryr.org

_______________________________________________________________________________

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 16:47:14 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Richard Miller <richard@EMF.NET>

Subject:      Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and Why?

 

As a relative newcomer to Beat-L, I have to say how wonderful its been to

discover a bunch of people who share my passion and interests. At the same

time its been somewhat like hopping a train where the club car is filled

with boistrous shouting and at times near fist fights while the rest of us

look on with varying degress of fascination and horror. Initially I loved

it but now feel increasingly alarmed by the possibility that a few people

could derail the entire train. I tend to see the best in people and suspect

that its not maliciousness so much as overheated emotion and a belief that

"God is on my side" type of thinking that has gotten us to this dismal

state of personal attack and name calling. My wish is for the train to stay

on track without anyone needing to be thrown (or jumping) off board.

Because I support you, Gerry, in what you're trying to accomplish, I also

want to support what others have implied or said: bullies have your number

when they can so easily and predictably get a response by saying "your

mother wears a mustache." When left alone or not responded to, they are

revealed to be for what they are. I quite understand that you don't wish to

be slandered but for all of our sakes, please don't save the village by

destroying it. Your good name will not be endangered by stepping aside from

taunts and provocations and in fact will be enhanced. I encourage you to

continue to resist the temptation to counter attack (grace under fire?) and

to rise above it and let the flames die down so the real business at hand

can be addressed. It's not a question (IMHO) of honor but of keeping

presence of mind and one's eye on the ball. Sorry this first post is so

windy and I hope it can be taken in the spirit its intended. Richard

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 20:48:33 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and Why?

 

To Richard and Diane and others who recently responded to this thread:

 

Ladies and Gentlemen I agree with much of what you've said.  I am on record

on a number of occassions as saying I wish Gerry Nicosia would tone things

down sometimes in his responses.  I think he hurts his cause by answering his

attackers in kind.  Although I have been called Gerry's "Lackey" and been

accused of "genuflecting at his feet" I have not to my knowledge been

excommunicated from the cause of wanting to save Jack's archives because I

sometimes disagree with it's Champion.

 

I would like to point something out, however.  It is very easy to sit on the

sidelines watching a fight and say, "Isn't that terrible?  They should stop

that fighting.  Look at those three bullies ganging up on that one guy.  He

should turn the other cheek and maybe they'll stop."

 

I have made my position known in this situation for quite a while.  And while

I try my level best to be even handed I must admit I have lost my cool a few

times as well.  When Jeffrey Weinberg called me a "liar" because I had the

"audacity" to innocently mention a $50,000 raincoat Jeffrey came at me with

both barrels saying I was a "liar" for the simple reason that he's one of the

few people on the planet who knows for a fact that the raincoat did NOT cost

exactly $50,000.  I asked Jeffrey how I should refer to this raincoat... as

"the raincoat that did NOT cost $50,000?" ... as "the raincoat that cost

something OTHER than $50,000?".  Jeffrey, of course, did not respond, he

simply told us all on a later post that I am "destroying the spirit of the

Beat-l" because I said Rod Anstee was "Off Base" to use the private

correspondance between himself and Gerry Nicosia to try to win a point in an

argument.  This, of course, being the action that caused Gerry to call on

Bill Gargan to force Anstee to stop quoting private correspondance which may

in fact even be illegal.

 

The point I'm trying to make here is I have been defamed in a minor way and

it pissed me off enormously!  Gerry Nicosia has literally been ASSAULTED by

many many people, one of them even under a phantom screen-name!  How do you

expect him to react?  How would YOU react if somebody shouted at you time and

again with remarks like, "How long did your father jerk off in the flower pot

to raise a blooming idiot like you?  You know what Gerry I don't give a

fiddler's fuck if I get thrown off this list cause listening to you makes me

sick anyway.  Take those rules about censorship print it out, roll it into a

ball and SHOVE IT UP YOU ASS." This treasure trove of scintilating "free

speech" was of course compliments of our very own Phil Chaput who counts

among his heroes the Reverend Martin Luther King!

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again:  IF YOU PEOPLE WANT TO BRING PEACE

TO THIS LIST YOU SHOULD BE CARPET BOMBING PHIL CHAPUT FOR SAYING THESE

THINGS!  He's the one who is raising his voice time and time again along with

Paul Maher and also Rod Anstee.

 

Has anyone else noticed how one or two of these guys takes a break for a

while but one of them is constantly there with their sickening drone of how

Gerry Nicosia is a monster?  We haven't heard from Maher and Anstee for a few

days but they'll be back.  And before that it was Anstee who was keeping the

decible level high while Phil took a break.

 

Who's on Nicosia's side?   He's standing there alone taking a hammering and

people post to HIM that HE should turn the other cheek!  That's nonsense!

 You walk in his shoes for a while and see how long you'd keep silent.  Every

time one of these people shoots these flames toward Gerry substitute YOUR

NAME where his is and see how long you could stand it.  You're living in a

dream world if you expect Gerry to stay silent on this.  He's not going to do

it!  I wouldn't!  And I bet you wouldn't either!

 

The way to bring PEACE to this list is to silence the attackers. Try doing

that for a while and see what the results are.

 

Peace!

 

 

 

Jerry Cimino

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 21:08:44 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: All Things

 

No, Gerry did not kill the beat list.  Nor did Rod or Phil.

 

But there were times that the prospect of "distroying the village in order to

save it" seemed possible (A phrase that some Vietnam-era General or somebody

used to explain the distruction of a real village, know who Gerry?).  There

is a time to let fly, even to threaten peacefully.

 

I never said much during our most notable (and I suspect most enduring) flame

war, because I had no first hand knowledge to contribute.  Now that things

have settled just a bit, my opinion is that in the best of all possible

worlds I support the vision of Gerry Nicosea.  All of Jack's papers in one

accessable place to promote Kerouac scholarship and study throughout the

ages.  I think that is Gerry's vision.  If not, I humbly apologize for

misstating your vision.  A place where the best of the Kerouac sprit endures

without whitewashing or censoring ANYTHING.  A place where the Kerouac papers

are preserved and REAL to people, including non-scholars" long after all but

tight assed people like George Will have forgotten Norman Podheritz, Irving

Kristol and that little weasel Truman Capote.  Some people think that Mr.

Nicosea's vision is different from the way I have characterized it.  They

have not convinced me of anything other than the fact that well-meaning

people often don't get along.  Of course, we have never heard from Mr. Sampas

directly.

 

If that vision remains a mirage I'm not going to lose a whole lot of sleep

over it.  Ya just got to pick your fights carefully, and this ain't my fight.

 So flame away...just don't burn the other things that some of us

non-combatants value about our little online community.  Those values include

civility and mutual respect.  I also reject the notion that "if you are not

part of the solution, you are part of the problem."   That might be true of a

time of war or revolution, but not about a civil suit concerning the Kerouac

estate which IS important but hardly a matter of life or death, or even about

basic principles.  At its core, Mr. Nicosea's dispute with Mr. Sampas is a

legal matter, to be decided by a judge or jury.  Let justice prevail, an

occasional outcome of our legal system.  Nobody has convinced me that there

is ANYTHING that I can do to affect the outcome of that dispute in ANY way.

 

 

Howard Park

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 20:10:41 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and Why?

 

Diane Carter wrote:

 

> I've got to say that when I see the words "take legal action against

> Brooklyn College and the Beat-List," it upsets me.

 

i found this quoted line 'odd' myself.  also 'odd' that some seem to

read past lines like this and only see 'fault' (for lack of a better

word at the moment) in the camp of CA&M.  it would be a 'shame' if such

words as the quoted line were to become more than empty threats.  it is

a 'shame' in my opinion that the individuals providing the service for

this list and its administration even need to consider such a

possibility.  i've been known to heat-up myself now and then.  sometimes

i forget to count to 500 or to wait 24 hours or whatever rule-of-thumb

one chooses to use.  but this is bordering on senseless.

 

in another direction, i don't think that jerry c. comprehends what is

being suggested when he likens it to 'turning the other cheek'.  i think

it is much more 'picking your punches'.  gerry n. seems to counter-punch

at the stupidest comments with full rhetorical flare.  it is difficult

for me to distinguish which comments he finds credible and which he

senses are made of straw when the power of the replies is the same

regardless of the content of the previous posts.

 

i mean to defame or libel no one with this message.  or slander for that

matter.  'shame' that such caveats seem necessary.

 

david rhaesa

salina, Kansas

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 18:14:26 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and Why?

 

                                                May 31, 1997

Diane Carter writes:

 

.  Why don't you erase the anger

>from your own posts and only respond in a rational, level-headed way.  If

>you truly want to be respected here, stop engaging in the battle.

>

 

Diane,  I have erased my anger.  But that doesn't mean I want or should be

subjected to a stream of abuse every time I turn on my computer.

        Imagine, can you, how you would feel if every day when you went to

log onto the Beat List, people were accusing you of various actual crimes

you didn't commit, insulting you and your family, telling you you dare not

mention the name of a famous man without "disgracing" him from your polluted

lips, etc.

        This cannot be allowed to go on, if this list is not to become the

property of a few arrogant individuals who feel they can intimidate and

drive off any discussion they do not like--drive if off, not with cogent,

intelligent argument, but drive it off with the most vicious and disgusting

tactics.

        I am pursuing the gentlest means possible to end this kind of

coercion--for that is what it is--but I will not give up until it is indeed

ended.

        And yes, by the way, slander does hurt.  It hurt Jan's cause a good

deal while she lived, and it is hurting my efforts to carry on her cause:

which is the saving of Jack Kerouac's archive for posterity.

        Yours truly, Gerald Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 21:12:48 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: Music...

 

Maya Gorton wrote:

 

> In a message dated 97-05-31 09:11:39 EDT, you write:

>

> <<

>   Never read Schopy, but you post Maya has me ROTFLMAO.  But,

> personally,

>  I think men are better liars than you give them credit for here.

> Well,

>  I was lying but can you tell which part is the lie and which is the

>  truth.  So come to think of it, email is as good as a beard, only

>  better.

>   >>

> I know..you''re not REALLY rotflmao! Right?  e-mail is better than a

> beard

> for sure...i've been told so many unsolicited tall tales already on

> the

> internet.  stories of murder and drug money, glamour and wishful fame.

 

 No, but I was lol and FELT like rolling on the floor.  :-)

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 21:14:31 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: All things

Comments: To: jhasbro@tezcat.com

 

JWHasbrouck wrote:

 

> Gerald Nicosia wrote:

>

> >>John Hasbrouck writes:

> >>        "All things considered, I think the Beat-L list is far more

> >>interesting now than it has been at any time during the last two

> years or so

> ...."

>

> >        John,

> >       You mean I didn't murder the Beat-List?  I'm crushed.

> >        Yours in failure,

> >        Gerald Nicosia

>

> Gerry,

> On the contrary - all issues, flames and partisanship aside - you, Mr.

>

> Nicosia, in your own inimitable and fabulously impudent way, have

> resuscitated and resurrected this list from a deathlike and dronish

> blandness consisting of <Is So-and-So Beat?>, <What Should I Read?>

> and

> <Who's The Greatest POvErT Of The 20th Century?>-type posts, all of

> which are eminently deletable. Any Devoted Reader Of Books who can't

> deal with the stench of dirty laundry coming from a Classic Legal

> Dispute over a great literary estate is no better than Mr. Sampas

> trying

> to keep the world from knowing that Kerouac sucked cock and drowned in

>

> booze.

>

> I hope this rant doesn't kill my chances of being elected LurkMeister.

>

> John Hasbrouck, BiblioFool

> Chicago

>

> P.S. Y'all read <The Scandal of Ulysses>?

 

 NOT in mho.  I still believe it is part of the first post, so you

really haven't delurked yet, have you.

 

Peace,

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 21:31:14 -0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         west <anwest@UP.NET>

Subject:      Re: Bob Kaufman and Martin Luther King

 

>GREATEST BLACK POET OF THE BEAT GENERATION: BOB KAUFMAN

 

 

Bob Kaufman was black? I am out of the loop, course I also wasn't born

until 1980 so to me the beats are only words in books there isn't any

flesh blood or memories. Damn.

 

west

 

I belong to the blank generation

and I can take or leave it each time

-Richard Hell

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 21:39:27 -0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         west <anwest@UP.NET>

Subject:      Re: Music...

 

>I bet we all listen to music almost all the time.  It'd be inneresting if

>people posted their soundtracks with their posts.     (ben neil)

 

I just purchased Horses by Patti Smith (IMHO very beat)

 

west

 

I belong to the blank generation

and I can take or leave it each time

-Richard Hell

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 21:33:22 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      Re: Posey - Ode to NJ

 

Jerry Cimino wrote:

 

> I mis-spent my senior year at college listening to Greetings from

> Asbury Park

> and The Wild The Innocent & The E Street Shuffle.  We danced to

> Rosalita 'til

> dawn many 'a night!  The first date my wife and I had was to a Bruce

> concert

> in DC.  Discovery of JK came a year later.

>

> JC

 

 Jerry:

 

I saw the born to run tour in a small auditorium here in Columbia, great

show.  Years later on the Born in the USA tour, my wife, who was

pregnant 8 months worth and I went.  Richard jumped around the whole

show.

 

Before he could talk we were pulling him around the neighborhood in a

wagon.  He was right at a year old.  He was doing this sing song thing

all the time and it was driving us batty.  One of neighbors mentioned as

we walked by that we had a little "Bruce" in our wagon.  We looked at

each other and realized that he was singing the chorus to Born in the

USA.  It was heard every damn  moringing on the way to day care for 4

years.  In utero no less.

 

Peace,

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 21:52:02 -0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         west <anwest@UP.NET>

Subject:      Re: Who is Killing the Beat-List and Why?

 

>alarmed by the possibility that a few people

>could derail the entire train

 

people can only derail beat-l if the rest of us let them, but i really

don't see that happening.

 

west

 

I belong to the blank generation

and I can take or leave it each time

-Richard Hell

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 22:02:35 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "R. Bentz Kirby" <bocelts@SCSN.NET>

Organization: Law Office of R. Bentz Kirby

Subject:      In response

 

While I agree that Gerry should not come back to these sick attacks, I

also agree that we on the list should help put a stop to them. I am

still awaiting Mr. Anstee's proof the Gerry illegally sold Columbia

University papers to UMASS at Lowell.  We also know that Gerry has not

been invited to the service for Jan, that is a travesty.  We also must

ask why it is so important for a seemingly unending attacks go on

against Gerry and when Jerry, Jo Grant or myself defend him, we are then

attacked, and for me it has been privately too.

 

I dealt with the last round off  the list.

 

But I believe that it is important that Phil, Rod, or anyone else

understand that they should not, and will not be allowed to personally

attack people on the list.  From what I see, we have already lost one

very valuable member because of these attacks.  We must stand up as a

group and let them know that such behavior is uncivilized, not beat and

not allowed.

 

I have not seen Gerry go out on his own after anyone, and if I do, I

will be one of the first to lay into him for that.  On the other hand, I

have requested that he allow the list to deal with this, and not take it

on.

 

But where do you stand, is it ok for someone to say things like Phil

said in his post?  I will not repeat them here.

 

Is it ok for Rod to accuse Gerry of selling Columbia Univesity papers to

UMASS Lowell when he has no proof of such?

 

What is ok, if you do not stand up, you will let the list "die".  I am

not saying to flame anyone, or to take Gerry's side.  Just a firm

private note, or one to the list telling the posters of such trash to

stop.  That is all.  Take a stand and keep Gerry, heh, maybe we can get

that other poet back then.  Maybe we could get poets on the list as a

cool place to hang. Would Ferlinghetti, Snyder, McClure, or other poets

come on this list and watch Gerry get attacked like this and want to

stay on?  We have an opportunity, I have a vision.

 

NO, I  HAVE A VISION!!!!!!!!

 

I see men and women like Ferlinghetti, Snyder, Kerouac, Ginsberg, Jan

Kerouac, Michael McClure, Corson, Patchen, Natalie Merchent, Joni

Mitchell can all sit at their list and communicate on the beat list with

us all.  Maybe who knows might come.  But who will come to a space

filled with personal attacks of the like we have seen lately, no one.

 

Take a stand, if we build it, they will come.

 

Peace,

 

--

Bentz

bocelts@scsn.net

 

http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 31 May 1997 23:56:51 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Burroughs collection

 

Dave:

 

I thought Arizona State University (Tempe) had the officialWSB collection -

What's up? Did James give any details?....

JW

 



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