=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:08:47 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Antoine Maloney
<stratis@ODYSSEE.NET>
Subject: Re: a calm request
Jerry,
Can I borrow your sig file? It was the
best part of the whole riposte!
....which was right-on!
Antoine
A
general person-liking "I don't claim to be better than anyone else"
guy.
Voice contact at (514) 933-4956 in Montreal
"An anarchist is someone who doesn't
need a cop to tell him what to do!"
-- Norman Navrotsky
and Utah Phillips
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:46:24 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: lawyers in the mix
Im
sorry, but I don't see how backbiting, name calling, getting lawyer
in
the
mix, and other going ons are 'helping' anything.
woah,
as a lawyer, I am like the government and I am here to help.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:47:35 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: more thoughts to ponder:on debate vs
mudslinging,
passion vs aggression
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 23 May 1997 07:08:22 -0400
from
<country@SOVER.NET>
Yea,
Marie's right...let's let all this agression go!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:50:42 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 23 May 1997 08:35:33 -0400
from <cake@IONLINE.NET>
On Fri,
23 May 1997 08:35:33 -0400 M. Cakebread said:
>At
02:05 AM 5/23/97 -0700, Lisa Rabey wrote:
>
>>This
is NOT about censorship, book burning or anything else.
>>Its
about common sense and having MANNERS. I am
>>NOT
the only one who feels this way, but I may be the
>>most
vocal.
>
>Hey
Lisa et al,
>
>I
don't believe the issue is "censorship." Nobody wants
>the
estate/papers discussion to end (major part of Kerouac
>history). I think the general plea has been for the
>mean,
sarcastic, cheap-shots to be done in private
>e-mail. This isn't censorship, it is a request that
people
>stick
to the facts and be respectful of one another.
We
>may
not all agree on things, but were does meaness,
>sarcasm
and daggers get us, NOWHERE! Just back
into
>a
stupid repetative cycle of bullshit.
Just my feelings.
>Flame
away...
>
>Mike
Mike,
you're absolutely right. The Kerouac
Archives are an important topic for
the
list but we've had too much repetition and too much name calling. Everyone
on the
list now has heard both sides of the argument.
If there's anthing new,
I'm
sure all of us would appreciate hearing it in a CIVIL, NON-AGRESSIVE forum.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 12:52:55 CDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Wes Lundburg
<wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>
Subject: Re: Music...
Hello,
Bruce! You're not dragging ME in
kicking and screaming... I love
discussing
the beats and jazz (these are a couple of my favorite things). As a
lover
of be-bop and all forms of jazz, I would strongly recommend immersing
yourself
in Charlie Parker ("Bebop and Bird, Vol 1" is a good intro), John
Coltrane
(a favorite of mine, for its interpretive power, is "My Favorite
Things"),
as well as Dizzy Gillespie and a hundred others as well. Just allow
yourself
to be caught up in the music's movement.
It speaks. It is poetic.
About
six months ago, I reread _On The Road_ with Parker playing in the
background
as I read, and some portions of the novel were so much more powerful
as a
result.
I can't
emphasize it enough... develop your own perspective on the relationship
between
bebop and the beats. As I reread that
sentence, it could be taken
wrong:
don't take it wrong. I'm perfectly
serious when I say that developing
your
own perspective will be the best approach... developing your own means
creating
your own, personal experience around the blown music and the written
words.
This
may be useful to you: In teaching a novel course last quarter, I played
some
Charlie Parker in class, pointing out how he deviates from the established
pattern
of the musical rhythm (which is maintained by other band members as a
background),
punctuating certain parts of the tune.
We were reading Ralph
Ellison's
_Invisible Man_ at the time, so we read portions (the dream sequences)
of the
novel immediately after listening to Parker.
Students--all of whom were
skeptical
when I walked in with my boom box, mind you--were amazed at the
similarities
in such apparently different mediums.
Ellison uses certain
repetitive
words in the same way that Parker uses certain repetitive notes. I
think
the same can work for Kerouac, et al... especially for someone like you,
who
likes jazz and loves the beats.
Hope
this helps...
Regards,
---Wes
>Beat
friends,
>
>
I've started to have a quiet conversation off list with Ms. Laura Moja
>(of
>Ufficio
Stampa Teatro Smeraldo http:/www4.iol.it/smeraldo) concerning the
>connection
between Music and the Beats. Having
virtually no hard knowledge
>of
Parker, Diz, Monk, and the boys, my side of the conversation has been
>mostly
limited to a few ideas I've been considering about Coltrane. So, I
>figured
it might be a good idea to drag this list, kicking and screaming,
>into
the discussion and hope that it might spark at least a side thread for
>those
who are bored with WWIII.
> Antoine, I know you're out there
buddy, what can you offer up? What
>was
>about
be-bop that so enthralled the entire scene?
Don't get me wrong, I
>dig
the music, but my tastes slip a bit further up the timeline to hard bop
>&
free jazz. Be-bop seems such a
"happy" music, at least the bit I've been
>exposed
to.
>
>My
best to all,
>
>Bruce
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:57:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: Beat History
Would
Tom Wolfe of Electric Koolaid Acid Test and Hunter Thompson of
Fear
and Loathing qualify as "beat."
And
yet, I am wondering if there is not at least two threads of
literature
throughout history. I don't know enough
and am not well read
enough
to deal with this idea on my own. But
it seems to me that you
have
two spirits, one which is the "voice" of society and the other
which
is the "voice" of those who are beaten out of society. If so, it
would
run throughout time. I would like to
know if any literary
teachers,
commentators etc, have ever explored the idea.
Back to Homer,
was he
beat or was he society. What about
Thomas Aquianas? Maybe this
too
large of an idea, but I would like to see the result of a study of
this
idea. We have always been beat.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:00:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Ann Charters Interview
A
number of weeks ago we were told on the Beat-l by a number of people we
should
be doing our own research. As some
people said the Ann Charters
Interview
by Dan Barth would shed some light on the topic I asked (twice) for
someone
to summarize what it said. No one did.
I would
like to thank Greg Severance on this list.
Greg E-mailed Dan Barth
directly
asking Dan to forward me the interview. Dan did so and here is my
summary:
The
article is probably about 5000 words.
Barth interviewed Charters on
3/28/95
in San Francisco while Ann was on a West Coast tour for Jack Kerouac:
Selected
Letters Pt I, 1940-1956. Most of the
interview focuses on Ann
Charters'
life and background, the book tour, the book itself, various JK
letters
in general and in particular. About
1000 words or so concerns itself
with
the Kerouac estate debate.
To
summarize, Ann Charters does not say anything that disagrees with what
Gerry
Nicosia has been saying from the day he joined this list. To the
contrary,
what she does say *substantiates* the points Nicosia has been
making
all along. A quote:
Dan
Barth: As far as you know has there
been any selling off piecemeal?
Ann
Charters: There has been some. I don't know how much because Sampas
doesn't
tell me. Why should he? I'm not getting any income from it and I
don't,
frankly, have a relationship with John Sampas that is one of
confidante. I work for hire, his terms. He gets the final say on
everything.
Well,
folks, I've done my due diligence. Ann
Charters may not be talking on
this
list and she may not be the president of the Gerry Nicosia fan club, but
she
doesn't contradict his arguments either, at least not in this interview.
In fact, she supports them.
By the
way, before sending this out I e-mailed Dan Barth summarizing for him
my
conclusions and asking his permission to post this summary. He e-mailed
me back
saying my conclusions sounded accurate to him and to feel free to
post it
to the list.
Jerry
Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:07:12 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: Re: Open Letter to Mr. Nicosia
Wes
Lundburg wrote:
>
Mr. Nicosia:
>
>
I'm glad you're moving on to other topics, Mr. Nicosia. As Mr.
>
Bealieu said,
>
we're glad you're here and look forward to your contributions to
>
beat-l. This
> is
a weird kind of community in cyberspace.
Sometimes I love the
>
list, and
>
other times I don't... but my family is kind of like that, too.
>
There's a
>
certain wisdom in knowing when to drop an issue.
>
>
All the best, and with immense respect,
>
>
---Wes Lundburg
>
wlundburg@mail.ff.cc.mn.us
I
signed onto this list because of my love for the works of Jack
Kerouac,
and other beat poets. To be able to be
on a list where I can
receive
comments from Gerry Nicosia, I can not think of a better place
to
be. As a lawyer, I say fight out the
other stuff in the courtroom.
No
point in being cross examined from your posts to this news group.
And I
would not want to lose Gerry's imput because of this type of
atmosphere.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 13:24:48 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Music...
What
Wes says is so right - but remember also it wasn't coincidental - the
way
Charlie Parker played was a huge influence on how they all wrote, and
certainly
at some points you can see a concious effort to do in words what
the
be-bop players were doing with music.
Jack wrote some jazz criticism as
well,
was really into it all, in fact the main reason I love his writing
more
than the others so much is the way he captures the swing of bop
Nick
>Hello,
Bruce! You're not dragging ME in
kicking and screaming... I love
>discussing
the beats and jazz (these are a couple of my favorite things). As a
>lover
of be-bop and all forms of jazz, I would strongly recommend immersing
>yourself
in Charlie Parker ("Bebop and Bird, Vol 1" is a good intro), John
>Coltrane
(a favorite of mine, for its interpretive power, is "My Favorite
>Things"),
as well as Dizzy Gillespie and a hundred others as well. Just allow
>yourself
to be caught up in the music's movement.
It speaks. It is poetic.
>About
six months ago, I reread _On The Road_ with Parker playing in the
>background
as I read, and some portions of the novel were so much more powerful
>as
a result.
>
>I
can't emphasize it enough... develop your own perspective on the relationship
>between
bebop and the beats. As I reread that
sentence, it could be taken
>wrong:
don't take it wrong. I'm perfectly
serious when I say that developing
>your
own perspective will be the best approach... developing your own means
>creating
your own, personal experience around the blown music and the written
>words.
>
>This
may be useful to you: In teaching a novel course last quarter, I played
>some
Charlie Parker in class, pointing out how he deviates from the established
>pattern
of the musical rhythm (which is maintained by other band members as a
>background),
punctuating certain parts of the tune.
We were reading Ralph
>Ellison's
_Invisible Man_ at the time, so we read portions (the dream
sequences)
>of
the novel immediately after listening to Parker. Students--all of whom were
>skeptical
when I walked in with my boom box, mind you--were amazed at the
>similarities
in such apparently different mediums.
Ellison uses certain
>repetitive
words in the same way that Parker uses certain repetitive notes. I
>think
the same can work for Kerouac, et al... especially for someone like you,
>who
likes jazz and loves the beats.
>
>Hope
this helps...
>
>Regards,
>---Wes
>
>
>>Beat
friends,
>>
>>
I've started to have a quiet conversation off list with Ms. Laura Moja
>>(of
>>Ufficio
Stampa Teatro Smeraldo http:/www4.iol.it/smeraldo) concerning the
>>connection
between Music and the Beats. Having
virtually no hard knowledge
>>of
Parker, Diz, Monk, and the boys, my side of the conversation has been
>>mostly
limited to a few ideas I've been considering about Coltrane. So, I
>>figured
it might be a good idea to drag this list, kicking and screaming,
>>into
the discussion and hope that it might spark at least a side thread for
>>those
who are bored with WWIII.
>> Antoine, I know you're out there
buddy, what can you offer up? What
>>was
>>about
be-bop that so enthralled the entire scene?
Don't get me wrong, I
>>dig
the music, but my tastes slip a bit further up the timeline to hard bop
>>&
free jazz. Be-bop seems such a
"happy" music, at least the bit I've been
>>exposed
to.
>>
>>My
best to all,
>>
>>Bruce
>
>
**************************************************************************
*Nil
Carborundum Illegitimis*
It's
better to die on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List
Manager, chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax:
847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:15:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Beat History
In-Reply-To: <3385E8A6.CB77F85@scsn.net>
On Fri,
23 May 1997, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
Would Tom Wolfe of Electric Koolaid Acid Test and Hunter Thompson of
>
Fear and Loathing qualify as "beat."
I would
say yes to HST, as beat as Dylan or Garcia or Don McNeill could be.
If
anything, it's guilt by association & friendships & value sharing,
etc.
And a definite no to Wolfe. Yeah he chronicled the bus and helped
develop
& compile the New Journalism but he wasn't, in Kesey's words, a
"warrior."
HST on the other hand was/is (was?) a definite warrior. Where the
Beat
stops and a new generation of warriors take over is anybody's guess --
by the
talk on the list about such things it looks like it'll be debated
until
it's actual past history and the new warriors are making appearances
on
David Letterman explaining the novel they wrote five years earlier about
events
a decade past, or something like that.
m
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:22:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: Burroughs
>Burroughs,
of course, is a whole another ballgame, and I'd be
interested
as well
>in hearing what people think
>influenced
him.
was
posted by Mark. Thanks for the
post. I enjoyed reviewing it.
I would
suggest his greatest influences were not other writers, they
were,
Wilheim Reich, ie orgone box etc., drugs, and life in a whole
nother
lane we don't even want to know about.
That is my idea on
Burroughs. I never "warmed" up to Naked Lunch
or the Wild Boys, but
without
his work, there would be no Clockwork Orange (at least the
Movie),
no Steely Dan (another name), no Alice Cooper etc.
Thanks
for the ideas.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:40:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: Re: Clarify this situation
Comments:
To: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>,
James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Levi
Asher wrote:
>
Some lawyer wrote:
>
> I will not make public, even to Nicosia any bc mail. And if I were
> to
>
> ever get involved with the Nicosia in any legal action, I will post
>
this
>
> to the group. I do not want anyone
to share any thoughts or ideas
>
with
>
> me, unless you understand that I intend to speak again with Nicosia,
> but
>
> will not republish any bc mail to him without your express consent.
>
>
>
> Just a lawyerly warning to try to keep it straight.
>
>
Many weeks ago, when Gerry Nicosia first showed up on this list,
> I
wrote a friendly message saying "Glad to have Gerry N. here,
>
but I hope we'll talk about things other than estates and wills,
>
and that we'll resist all getting dragged down into the legal
>
mire together and ruining the friendly atmosphere of the list".
>
>
Now half of us hate the other half, and now we've got a lawyer
>
telling us to all watch our words.
>
>
Way to not get dragged into the mire, guys ...
>
>
I'm *this* close to hitting "unsubscribe" -- the only thing
>
that's stopping me is that I know Bill Gargan worked hard
>
putting this list together and I think it's really pathetic
>
the way a few people are shitting all over it, and I don't
>
want to give up hope just yet that the list won't survive.
>
>
Not that the legal material isn't relevant (but *WE GET
>
THE POINT ALREADY*) and not that the personal material
>
doesn't have some entertainment value (mostly as sick comedy).
>
But enough is enough. It's time to
stop. And about
>
lawyers -- I wouldn't hang out at a party where a lawyer is
>
standing there saying "watch your words everybody" and
> I
don't intend to hang out at a mailing list where this
> is
happening either.
>
>
------------------------------------------------------
> Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
>
> Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
> (the beat literature web site)
>
> Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
> (my fantasy folk-rock album)
>
> ###################################
>
> "Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
> -- Bob Dylan
>
-----------------------------------------------------
No, no no, don't read that wrong. I am interested in the questions
that
are raised and the primary one I am interested in as far as legal
matters
goes is whether the collection at UMass-Lowell is properly cared
for. I just saw in my first night on board that
Jerry felt that he has
been
slandered and made the point that this can in fact occur. I
certainly
did not mean to "threaten" anyone and did not sign onto the
list as
a lawyer, but as a person who has read everything that I could
find or
buy by Kerouac and by Thomas Wolfe. I
love Beat writers and
would
like to be able to discuss them with the likes of Gerry. I do not
want to
see him run off.
Because
I was curious about what the agendas were, I invited the posters
to
discuss it with me off line, back channel.
Then I realized that I
did not
want to mislead anyone. If offered a
case that had merit to it
from
Gerry, then I might take it. At that
point, I would no longer be
objective. I believe strongly, because my trust has
been violated on
other
lists, that b/c private mail is just that.
And up to the point
that I
would get involved, I have no duty to Gerry, Sampas, etc and just
want to
learn.
As I
reflected on my request for information, I realized that if I did
ever
get involved as an attorney, someone who had different interests
might
think that I "duped" them into giving me information. Thus, I
just
wanted to state very openly who I was and to make sure that anyone
who did
elect to back channel me would understand that I probably have a
biasis
in favor of Gerry and that they should only talk to me, I could
end up
in court on the issue, but would not use the infromation from an
email
and would want the "pro Sampas" crowd to be cautious and
understand
that I may not ultimately be neutural.
I just
want full and fair disclosure of the "agenda" that I have, which
is free
beer, more sex, and less work, oh yeah, and for the time being,
I
continue to admire Gerald.
I hope
that this brings some clarity to the message.
Thanks,
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 12:45:18 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall <iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Beats out of court
Here's
my attempt at getting the Beats out of court:
1. What do you think was the impetus for
Kerouac's stylistic change after
_The
Town and the City_? Peer pressure? Jazz?
The freedom which comes
with
having that first novel under your belt?
2. What do you make of Burroughs' use of
contemporary music as the score
for
some of his spoken word pieces? Does
this move him into the realm of
postmodernism
or just show him keeping the beat alive?
3. Did anyone see Ginsberg reading the lyrics
to "Miami" by U2 on the T.V.
show
about the making of the album "Pop"?
What did you make of it? I found
the
combination (U2 and Ginsberg) incredibly intriguing.
Answer
one or all one and all.
Let the
bickerers bicker, let the accusors accuse, let the liars lie, let
the
lovers love.
James M.
P.S.
Whoever said that the anti-estate thread was like the Ginsberg case
over
"Howl" remember, "comparisons are odious"(<--Kerouac).
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 12:45:26 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James William Marshall
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Subject: Re: Stealing
"Ryokan, a Zen master, lived the
simplest kind of life in a little hut
at the
foot of a mountain. One evening a thief
visited the hut only to
discover
there was nothing in it to steal.
Ryokan returned and caught him. 'You may have come a long way to visit
me,' he
told the prowler, 'and you should not return empty-handed. Please
take my
clothes as a gift.'
The thief was bewildered. He took the clothes and slunk away.
Ryokan sat naked, watching the moon. 'Poor fellow,' he mused, 'I wish
I could
give him this beautiful moon.'
Stolen
from _Zen Flesh, Zen Bones: A
Collection of Zen and Pre-Zen
Writings_. Stolen by Paul Reps. Callously distributed by Anchor Books.
Thoughtlessly
published by Doubleday, 1989.
James M. (<--copyrighted)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:59:16 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Beats out of court
In-Reply-To:
<199705231945.MAA09759@freya.van.hookup.net>
On Fri,
23 May 1997, James William Marshall wrote:
>
1. What do you think was the impetus
for Kerouac's stylistic change after
>
_The Town and the City_? Peer
pressure? Jazz? The freedom which comes
>
with having that first novel under your belt?
Yeah,
first novel, found his own voice, etc. It seems many times that a
writer's
first work is the test that they can actually fulfill it and handle
the
form, and in their later stuff they're free to unself-consciously fill
up the
pages with what they need to without worrying about novels poems and
form.
Like Ginsberg's early works, "Drakar Doldrums" and those other ones.
Completely
different form anything he ever did since. Or that WSB co-written
thing
about the Star-Spangled Banner. All these works smack of deep thinking
but
they're all almost comedically derivative & stereotypical of what they
probably
thought "should" be a poem, novel etc. Later the words -- or
thoughts
-- just guided themselves, I would say. They learned how to trust
their
own minds.
>
2. What do you make of Burroughs' use
of contemporary music as the score
>
for some of his spoken word pieces?
Does this move him into the realm of
>
postmodernism or just show him keeping the beat alive?
I see
it as an extension of his cut-ups and tape exercises of the 60s.
Taking
recordings of the spoken word and adding other sounds noises messages
etc. to
it, esp. music of the 'young people' -- ie. contemporary music -- to
infiltrate
the youth consciousness with his word and further propogate his
life-works.
>
3. Did anyone see Ginsberg reading the
lyrics to "Miami" by U2 on the T.V.
>
show about the making of the album "Pop"? What did you make of it?
I found
>
the combination (U2 and Ginsberg) incredibly intriguing.
I would
like to see this. Anyone have a tape of it I could copy, or know the
details
like what show it was on?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:00:35 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Burroughs and beat history
R.
Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
>
> I
would suggest his greatest influences were not other writers, they
>
were, Wilheim Reich, ie orgone box etc., drugs, and life in a whole
>
nother lane we don't even want to know about.
i think
it undersells burroughs to just consider the drug and underworld
side. some have reported that he turned to that
stuff out of boredom.
he
studied some anthropology at Harvard before turning away from that
life. it seems interesting to me that the culture
of the time brought
together
this group of people from very different backgrounds but all
seemed
to have boredom or disenchantment of some sort to life at the
time.
i've
heard he liked to read about card tricks and detective stories.
Spengler's
Decline of the West (which i haven't read) seems to have been
influential. I'm interested in this sub-thread of the
beat history
thread
and will do a bit of digging but can certainly use others' help.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:05:12 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Burroughs and background music
James
William Marshall wrote:
>
>
2. What do you make of Burroughs' use
of contemporary music as the score for
some of his spoken word pieces?
i like
it.
Does
this move him into the realm of postmodernism or just show him
keeping
the beat alive?
i've
always thought bill burroughs was postmodern when postmodernists
were in
diapers. hmm. the use of music seems really connected to his
understanding
of the connections between different aesthetics. but
frankly
i don't know if the background music was/is his idea or
something
suggested by others which he thought might be ...... (fun?)?
david
rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 16:13:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: David Makar
<dmakar@CCS.NEU.EDU>
Subject: music and OTR
last
summer i spent a week along the beach of cape cod 'resting' i spent
most of
my time re-reading on the road for a second time. for the longest
time i
drifted between reading and sleeping while lying out in the sun
behind
the cottage i was staying at. inside my stereo was playing 2 cds
over
and over. one was gershwin's greastest hits the other was steely dan
alive
in america. i could imagine sal and dean jumping from car to car
from
place to place choreographed to the gershwin tunes of the 40's era. i
found
the steely dan (named from a wsb line in nl) songs moved the
thinking
and feeling of the novel. gershwin's fast mighty loud and soft
tunes
carried the action and steely dan carried the american emotion. to
this
day as i hear and listen to parts of g or s.d. i can think of
passages
from on the road. there's no better way for me to re-live those
great
memories. anyone else have similiar or music and reading stories?
-Dave
David Makar <dmakar@ccs.neu.edu>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 16:14:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: Thomas Pynchon
Is
Thomas Pynchon beat? I love, but can't
understand, his work. I am
not
sure if he is beat or not.
What
about TS Elliot? J Alfred Prufrock
seems beat, but there is so
much
packed in between the lines and in his references and allusions
that I
bet one could never finish a completley annotated version of his
collected
works. On the other hand, we have Old
Possum?
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 16:18:27 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Dave Redfern
<mushroom@INTERLOG.COM>
Subject: Jim Carroll & Richard Hell
Good
Day Beat-L
In
November '96, in Toronto, I had the pleasure of hosting a reading and
discussion
group by Allen Ginsberg. As a result,
through the kind
indulgence
of first Michael Cakebread & then Andrew Lampert, Beat-L was
brought
to my attention. Since that time, as
time permits, I have been
lurking
the list, mining much amusement & information.
On June
20, in Toronto, I will be hosting a performance by Jim Carroll &
Richard
Hell, two performers who I believe, fall under the beat umbrella.
Anyone
who is interested in this event can find additional information on
our web
page @ www.interlog.com/~mushroom. In
addition, if anyone has
questions
they would like directed at Jim or Dick, let me know and I will
see
what I can find out during their stay.
The
organization that I am a part of, mushroom enterprises, is a loose
collective
that seeks to bring alternative views and perspectives to Toronto
audiences. Past performers hosted include: John Giorno,
John Cale, Annie
Sprinkle,
Townes Van Zandt (definitely beat), Lydia Lunch, Candida Royale,
Bobby
Seale, Michael McClure, Guy Clarke, Fran Lebowitz, Crispin Glover and
AG. We are always seeking suggestions of
suitable artists to promote...
Any and
all suggestions from the admirable minds of Beat-L would be appreciated.
Cheers
Dave R
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 16:20:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: Who was that guy?
Diane.
--
This
sesame seed is bigger than my head!
--the
guy from the McDonald's
commercial
--
Who was
the guy who did a comic strip/book, Never Eat Anything Bigger
Than
Your Head?
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 16:21:22 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: San Francisco
I will
be traveling to San Francisco in early June.
I intend to go to
City
Lights. Can anyone offer ideas on
particularly "beat" sites to
check
out. Thanks.
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 16:24:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Marie Countryman
<country@SOVER.NET>
Subject: Re: Jim Carroll & Richard Hell
In-Reply-To:
<1.5.4.16.19970523130626.3e27166c@mail.interlog.com>
dave!
so
wonderful to hear that richard hell (who saved, in part, the 70s for me)
is on
the road with jim carroll, who i've followed from the start: do you
think
that audios will become available from tour?
brings
to my mind televsion, as well
crinlkly
yet wet stained wallpaper on boarding house stairs, the real bite.
mc
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 16:29:50 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: San Francisco
In-Reply-To: <3385FC42.2528A746@scsn.net>
On Fri,
23 May 1997, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
> I
will be traveling to San Francisco in early June. I intend to go to
>
City Lights. Can anyone offer ideas on
particularly "beat" sites to
>
check out.
Besides
the front of the store where a legendary beat photo was taken with
lf, nc,
rl and others, I hear they got a whole isle in the back dedicated to
just
beat authors.
har har
har
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 16:33:26 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Organization:
Law Office of R. Bentz kirby
Subject: Ethical lawyers are beat??????
Subject:
FYI: New Illinois Ethics Opinion
on E-mail
Resent-From:
tech@scbar.org
Date:
Fri, 23 May 1997 16:05:52 -0500
From:
cgm@npjp.com
Reply-To:
tech@scbar.org
To:
tech@scbar.org
CC:
sross@interlegal.com
I
thought beat was beaten and beatific, so I thought maybe I would
inquire
to see if anyone is interested in the most recent opinions by
the
Illinois Bar about "ethics" and lawyers. From my experience as a
lawyer,
Billy the Kid had more than many lawyers I know!!!! Not to
mention
Billy the Burroughs!!!!
Well,
what about Gravity's Rainbow and the erection signaling a V-2
rocket
incoming. I thought that was beat. What
about lawyer's with
ethics,
umm, that doesn't seem beat to me. I
guess I will not send the
body of
the post.
And
hey, sarcasm rules on the web, check out the twinkle in my
typing!!!! ;-)
--
Peace,
Bentz
bocelts@scsn.net
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:38:53 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: old hippy trying to remember san
fransisco.
when i
was young old, i went to san fransisco and went to hear a local
read,
bokowski, he sat on a stage in an movie
theatre and read. he sat
on a
lawn chair with a small refrigerator next to him and he pulled out
beers
during the reading. During questions
one man who had asked
stupick
anal questions like do you think you write real literature asked
if he
thought any one would take him serious if he sat there and drank
beer. B's response was to say, here have one, then
proceeded to throw
an open
beer to the guy, it twirling like a helocopter blade sprewing us
all. We sat there thinking wow. now that guy had to be beat related.
I wish
i could figure out what theatre that was.
there were many great
readings
there.
patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 13:51:46 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: lawyers in the mix
In-Reply-To: <3385E5FF.2FC14DAA@scsn.net>
At
02:46 PM 5/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Im
sorry, but I don't see how backbiting, name calling, getting lawyer
>in
>the
mix, and other going ons are 'helping' anything.
>
>woah,
as a lawyer, I am like the government and I am here to help.
>
hahaha..
*laughing
till i peed my pants*
you
should give your day job.
yr
pretty goddamn funny.
ttfn.
lisa
--
Lisa M.
Rabey
Internet
and Computer Consultant
San
Francisco, California
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
**************************************
General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:00:31 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: old hippy trying to remember san
fransisco.
In-Reply-To: <3386005D.368C@sunflower.com>
At
03:38 PM 5/23/97 -0500, you wrote:
>when
i was young old, i went to san fransisco and went to hear a local
>read,
bokowski, he sat on a stage in an movie
theatre and read. he sat
>on
a lawn chair with a small refrigerator next to him and he pulled out
>beers
during the reading. During questions
one man who had asked
>stupick
anal questions like do you think you write real literature asked
>if
he thought any one would take him serious if he sat there and drank
>beer. B's response was to say, here have one, then
proceeded to throw
>an open
beer to the guy, it twirling like a helocopter blade sprewing us
>all. We sat there thinking wow. now that guy had to be beat related.
>I
wish i could figure out what theatre that was.
there were many great
>readings
there.
>patricia
>
>
patricia:
if you
can remember the name of the theater, of anything that might be of
interest
to me (which would be just about anything), please let me know.
ive
gotten in contact with a few of the beat-l'ers since im living in
frisco
now. plus buk is one of my favs and am greatly interested in
anything
he does.
ttfn.
"The
most beautiful woman in town"
--
Lisa M.
Rabey
Internet
and Computer Consultant
San
Francisco, California
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
**************************************
General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:20:45 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: San Francisco
Walk up
the street (Broadway) north a couple of blocks from City Lights. On
the the
right there a small park and a cathedral across the street from it.
(I
think the cross street may be Stockton).
I think
this is mentioned in Big Sur, or if not in real life kerouac laid
there
and drank beer with Philip Whalen.
At
04:21 PM 5/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I
will be traveling to San Francisco in early June. I intend to go to
>City
Lights. Can anyone offer ideas on
particularly "beat" sites to
>check
out. Thanks.
>
>--
>
>Peace,
>
>Bentz
>bocelts@scsn.net
>http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:36:14 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: a calm request
In-Reply-To:
<970523124937_1557891213@emout05.mail.aol.com>
At
12:49 PM 5/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>To
the "General man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick...
For
clarification, this "long nick name" was given to me by a friend of
mine.
its meant to be sarcastic.
>
>Lisa,
you may think you know more than the rest of us, and God Bless you I'm
>sure
you do about some things, but that doesn't give you the right to tell
>everyone
else what to do.
I have
nor will I ever tell anyone "what to do". I am not the only person
who is
sick of the bullshit. What I have done
is state my opionion, which
is my
right to do. And if you don't like what *I* have to say then you can
delete
my posts as well. I gave you and the handfull of those involved
another
option: Start your own list. And those who want to hear the gossip
treadmill
can happily subscribe to that list as well. I joined this list to
learn
more about something that intrested me, not to hear bullshit and
gossip
between those that are in the know.
Excuse me for being born when
majority
of these people were out fucking/drinking/smoking and writing.
Many of
the names mentioned are irrelevent to me because they are side
characters
in this huge drama. You seem to forget
that not everyone here
is as
clued in to the 'scene' as you are.
>
>Lisa,
if you're getting 500 e-mails a day why don't you figure out a way to
>manage
that. I'm no tech heavy but I figured out very early on that AOL
>allows
me to have more than one screen name and this one you see here is
>dedicated
to the Beat-l only. If a techno-phobe
like me can manage that
>trick
it oughta be a slam dunk for somene who prides herself on her technical
>prowess.
Excuse
me? Perhaps if you simmered down on your anger, you would re-read
what I
wrote in the first place. This account "used" to genereate 500 mails
a day,
till I moved some stuff over to another address. I have 15 email
accounts,
with three being active and of two being primary. The world does
not
exist around AOL or any of its subsidaries. The only reason I kept this
list on
this account is because of the volume of mail it generates, and
lately
half of it being bullshit.
>
>Congratulations,
Lisa, you're the first person to ever tell me to "Fuck-Off"
>on
this or any other list. Put's you in
very good company with the
>ever-mature
Mr. Chaput who's very first post to Nicosia included the essence
>of
maturity "Fuck You Gerry".
I pride
myself on being non conformist.
>
>Lisa,
you amaze me in other ways too.
I amaze
a lot of people it seems.
>You
say you're on "auto-delete" for
>all
estate related posts and then proceed to tell us everything that is being
>said. You are one
>amazing
person.
Again,
you are misquoting me. I never said I had the list on 'auto delete'.
This
mail comes through Eudora, a gui mail client. After reading the first
couple
of thousand messages over the last few months that I said to hell
with
it. Kept watch on the thread and delted anything having to do with the
estate
sage. Then it died down for awhile,
then I moved my mail, and
started
reading again. Thats when I picked up on the tread and saw all the
complaints.
Now, if I hadn't been delting the messages like i have been for
the
past month or longer, would I have NOT voiced myself sooner? Yes
genuis!
I would have. It wasn't till i saw all the complaints about it,
kept
reading more of the thread that I deceided to speak up.
>
>With
all due respect to you and evryone else calling for the silencing of
>this
thread - hit your delete keys.
Unsubscribe. Do whatever floats
your
>boat,
but don't you dare tell me this topic is not relevant.
jerry,
jerry, jerry, jerry, jerry <patronizing>. You don't own this list.
The
topic of Jack's archieves is yes important, but not the bullshit and
the
lying, the namecalling and the backstabbing, and everything else
inbetween.
Plus jack is NOT the only beat that lived!!!!
and i will no
unsubscribe
nor will i keep my mouth shut. I have just as much say here as
YOU do
about what is relevent and what is not relevent on the list. And
maybe
if you stepped back and looked at WHY people are asking for the
silencing
of the thread, you would see why so many people are so upset.
And
another reason why this gets me, is because i live with this shit day
in and
day out. my bf is a media personality. i have to deal with the
rumors,
the namecalling, the slander, the 'is <insert bf's name> home?"
with me
going "sorry you have the wrong number". Its an invasion of
privacy.
We don't want our personal life dragged into the public spotlight,
and
what YOU and many other people seem to forget that is that is what your
mainly
doing when you bring up all the old gossip threadmills and the
fighting
over who has a bigger dick. Its lost all its meaning for being
about
jack's archieves, and you know it.
>The
tone is
>harsh,
yes. And no one recognizes that more
than me. And you aren't helping
>to
calm it by telling me or anyone else to "Fuck-Off". But the topic is
>relevant
as hell.
Its
only relevant because your involved. If you weren't I highly doubt that
you
would be saying any of this nor making a big fuss over any of it.
Personally,
I could care less. I stated my opinion, and people replied. I
am not
on any sides here, nor do I want to be.
>
>
>Jerry
Cimino
>*************************************************************************
>A
general person-liking "I don't claim to be better than anyone else"
guy.
>
>
Yes,
your so original, that you had to steal my sig? *laugh* Whatever
floats
your boat!
ps:
don't piss on the electric fence!
ttfn.
lisa
--
Lisa M.
Rabey
Internet
and Computer Consultant
San
Francisco, California
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
**************************************
General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 17:46:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeff Durand <LCKerouac@AOL.COM>
Subject:
FYI: Lowell CELEBRATES Kerouac!
For
those interested in Celebrating Jack Kerouac and his art in the
company
of friends and fellow enthusiasts, the 10th Annual Lowell
Celebrates
Kerouac! Festival will be 2-5 October 1997, in Lowell, MA. The
3rd Annual
Beat Literature Conference sponsored by UMASS-Lowell will take
place 3
October at the University.
This
year's theme will be "Kerouac Celebrates Lowell" and will include a
tribute to Allen Ginsberg.
More
soon. We're putting the schedule together now. I've spoken with the
Sheraton
Hotel and they will make rooms available at a special rate to
festival
goers as they did last year.
If you
want to be on a direct email list, send me your address. If you
want
our hard copy mailing, send me your postal address. We are also
working
on a web site for this year's event.
Mark
Hemenway
President,
Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!, Inc
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 18:35:02 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Jim Carroll & Richard Hell
At
04:18 PM 5/23/97 -0400, David Redfern wrote:
>On
June 20, in Toronto, I will be hosting a performance by
>Jim
Carroll & Richard Hell
Hmm,
why do things always fall on the day of a final exam?!?!?!
Why do
Intersession finals always seem to fall on my birthday?!?
My
final exams in Aug. better not mess with Dylan dates or
else!!!
{;^>
Keep up
the great work David!! Keep bringing em
to
Toronto!!
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 18:35:48 -0400
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "Dawn B. Sova"
<DawnDR@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
Dear R.
Bentz Kirby:
Welcome
to the list -- I'm fairly new to it myself --- but the animosities
and
accusations that flowed much more freely about three weeks ago revealed a
lot. Glad to see a "legal" viewpoint --
that might change the tone of many
exchanges.
Dawn
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 18:39:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: a calm request
Well,
Lisa, like I said, you are one amazing person.
And
regarding your "long nick name", it's obvious your friend knows you
quite
well.
Hey,
Lisa, I'd love to match wits with you further, but my parents drilled it
into me
as a young man that I should not duel with an unarmed opponent.
ta ta,
Jerry
Cimino
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:39:42 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Early Morning Thoughts
How on earth did Mr. Chaput know of that
phone call?
>>I
can't imagine his radio is so powerful he picks up San Francisco stations
>>in
Lowell, Massachusetts?
>
>(note****a
tape of this radio conversation has widely circulated from a
>source
unnamed in California...)
>
(Paul
A. Maher)
Dear
Paul: May 23, 1997
Your apologetics for Mr. Chaput and
Mr. Sampas give me a hearty laugh.
I suppose Jan Kerouac's income tax
returns were also "widely
circulated
from a source unnamed in California."
Widely circulated? How many people on the Beat-List have
received a
copy of
the KQED radio show from San Francisco on which George Tobia talks
about
Jan Kerouac selling a warrant that belonged to her mother? Don't all
raise
your hands at once. (Chaput, please put
your hand down--we know you
have
one.)
Off to shoot some hoops,
Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 18:41:13 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
At
06:35 PM 5/23/97 -0400, Dawn B. Sova wrote:
>Glad
to see a "legal" viewpoint -- that might change
>the
tone of many exchanges.
Sez the
spider to da fly...
ekiM
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 18:44:15 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: old hippy trying to remember san
fransisco.
At
03:38 PM 5/23/97 -0500, Patricia wrote:
>when
i was young old, i went to san fransisco and went to hear a local
>read,
bokowski, he sat on a stage in an movie
theatre and read.
Sounds
like the "Red Vic" (I believe that's the name - there's
a
bed'n'breakfast next door?) on Haight St.
Could
be my faulty circuiting?
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:01:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "Dawn B. Sova"
<DawnDR@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Nice people swallow..
Dear
David:
PRICELESS
response re: the potential website!!!
Dawn
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:40:20 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Beats out of court
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 23 May 1997 12:45:18 -0700 from
<iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>
Just to
start the ball rolling, I think there were several things that
contributed
to Kerouac's change of style. Holmes
once mentioned that he
thought
the war seemed to speed life up for his generation. Maybe this
was
reflected in the newmusic and maybe the beat of the music caused
them to
feel time in a different way. Drugs may also have played a role
in
terms of Kerouac's changing style. And
there was Neal Cassady--the
fastest
man alive--and his famous Joan Anderson letter. I'm tired and
thinking
to clearly now but I'll be glad to jump on this thread again if
people
want to continue it.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 18:28:16 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: old hippy trying to remember san
fransisco.
M.
Cakebread wrote:
>
> At
03:38 PM 5/23/97 -0500, Patricia wrote:
>
>when i was young old, i went to san fransisco and went to hear a local
>
>read, bokowski, he sat on a stage
in an movie theatre and read.
>
>
Sounds like the "Red Vic" (I believe that's the name - there's
> a
bed'n'breakfast next door?) on Haight St.
>
>
Could be my faulty circuiting?
>
Mike
yes
yes, neat, thanks
p
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 16:13:00 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "Lisa M. Rabey"
<lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
Subject: Re: a calm request
In-Reply-To:
<970523183906_1124034530@emout07.mail.aol.com>
At
06:39 PM 5/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Well,
Lisa, like I said, you are one amazing person.
>
>And
regarding your "long nick name", it's obvious your friend knows you
quite
>well.
>
>
>Hey,
Lisa, I'd love to match wits with you further, but my parents drilled it
>into
me as a young man that I should not duel with an unarmed opponent.
>
>ta
ta,
>
>
>Jerry
Cimino
>
>
Well as
my mother told me, if you can't say something nice, then come over
and sit
by me!
Its not
about "matching" wits, but heck, if your going to argue with
"me"
you
might as well
A: read
what I post instead of paraphrasing it.
b:if
your going to quote me, might as well quote what was said instead of
inserting
what you *think* was said. Saves a lot of time and engergy.
ttfn.
lisa
--
Lisa M.
Rabey
Internet
and Computer Consultant
San
Francisco, California
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
**************************************
General
man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:19:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Pamela Beach Plymell
<CVEditions@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: For Gerry and friends
In a
message dated 97-05-22 22:06:02 EDT, Tim Gallagher wrote:
<<
I'd much rather hear these guys slug it out verbally than your impolite
rantings.
James, do us a favor and simply don't read
their fighting. I like to read
it.
>>
Tim:
Name
calling just seems to be part and parcel of it. It has been very
interesting
to learn about the estate issues. Gerry
is too important a
scholar
to be pushed off the list by people who respond to his every posting
with
insults. Several times intelligent,
interesting and important posts of
his
have had insulting responses. I suspect
both sides need a reminder to
lower
the decibel level. Otherwise their
mothers should send them to bed!
Pam
Plymell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:18:27 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: to levi and all
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 23 May 1997 11:45:01 -0400
from
<country@SOVER.NET>
Isn't
it good to have Marie C. back with us!
Love that Pound!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 00:17:25 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Olly Ruff
<or205@HERMES.CAM.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: old hippy trying to remember san
fransisco.
In-Reply-To: <3386005D.368C@sunflower.com>
On Fri,
23 May 1997, Patricia Elliott wrote:
>
when i was young old, i went to san fransisco and went to hear a local
>
read, bokowski, he sat on a stage in an
movie theatre and read. he sat
> on
a lawn chair with a small refrigerator next to him and he pulled out
>
beers during the reading. During
questions one man who had asked
>
stupick anal questions like do you think you write real literature asked
> if
he thought any one would take him serious if he sat there and drank
>
beer. B's response was to say, here
have one, then proceeded to throw
> an
open beer to the guy, it twirling like a helocopter blade sprewing us
>
all. We sat there thinking wow. now that guy had to be beat related.
> I
wish i could figure out what theatre that was.
there were many great
>
readings there.
>
patricia
>
Well,
that's bukowski, not that I ever saw the guy or anything. His poems
were
definitely semi-beat, altho' he probably wouldn't have admitted it.
Like
beat with his feet on the ground... or actually more like beating his
head
into the ground.
Olly R.
_______________________________________________________________________________
"Survival
of the... *fittest* ? Was that the proper word ? Had Darwin ever
considered
the idea of *temporary* unfitness ? Like "temporary insanity."
Could
the Doctor have made room in his theory for a thing like LSD ?"
_______________________________________________________________________________
or205@hermes.cam.ac.uk
skink@imrryr.org
_______________________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 00:10:34 +0100
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Olly Ruff
<or205@HERMES.CAM.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Beat History
In-Reply-To: <3385E8A6.CB77F85@scsn.net>
On Fri,
23 May 1997, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
Would Tom Wolfe of Electric Koolaid Acid Test and Hunter Thompson of
>
Fear and Loathing qualify as "beat."
perhaps
not "beat", but certainly "good"... Kool Aid Acid Test is
quite
amazing.
Olly.
_______________________________________________________________________________
"Survival
of the... *fittest* ? Was that the proper word ? Had Darwin ever
considered
the idea of *temporary* unfitness ? Like "temporary insanity."
Could
the Doctor have made room in his theory for a thing like LSD ?"
_______________________________________________________________________________
or205@hermes.cam.ac.uk
skink@imrryr.org
_______________________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 20:14:56 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
--- On
Fri, 23 May 1997 18:41:13 -0400
"M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
wrote:
At
06:35 PM 5/23/97 -0400, Dawn B. Sova wrote:
>Glad
to see a "legal" viewpoint -- that might change
>the
tone of many exchanges.
Sez the
spider to da fly...
ekiM
---------------End
of Original Message-----------------
Look, I
am a Lawyer and I only know one that I would trust!!!
Me.
Peace,
--------------------------------------------------------
Name:
R. Bentz Kirby
E-mail:
R. Bentz Kirby <bocelts@scsn.net>
Date:
05/23/97
Time:
20:11:51
This
message was sent by Z-Mail Pro - from NetManage
NetManage
- delivers Standards Based IntraNet Solutions
--------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 17:23:00 -0700
Reply-To: rholton@okanagan.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rob Holton
<rholton@OKANAGAN.NET>
Subject: Re: Thomas Pynchon
In his
introduction to Slow Learner, his collection of early short
stories,
Pynchon
details the important Beat influence on his work and calls
himself
post-Beat. There are quite few connections.
Rob
Holton
R.
Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
> Is
Thomas Pynchon beat? I love, but can't
understand, his work. I am
> not
sure if he is beat or not.
>
Bentz
>
bocelts@scsn.net
>
http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:36:40 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: Beats out of court
Bill
Gargan wrote:
>
>
Just to start the ball rolling, I think there were several things that
>
contributed to Kerouac's change of style.
Holmes once mentioned that he
>
thought the war seemed to speed life up for his generation. Maybe this
>
was reflected in the newmusic and maybe the beat of the music caused
>
them to feel time in a different way. Drugs may also have played a role
> in
terms of Kerouac's changing style. And
there was Neal Cassady--the
>
fastest man alive--and his famous Joan Anderson letter.
Bill,
Please,
i am unfamiliar with the famous Joan Anderson letter. I am sorry
if this
makes it seem like beat 101 but, a short history would be
appreciated. I am just beginning to visualize the casts
of characters.
patricia
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:45:18 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: booze
and the guys
my list
Ken
kesey, drinking vodka and grapefruit juice with ice (in a large
thermos)
one afternoon in the KU union, pre press conference
wsb
vodka (vod) and coke with ice after 4:
jk quart of jack daniels a day? did he ever do
boilermakers?
p
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 20:29:09 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>
Subject: Re: Beat List T-Shirt Update
In-Reply-To: <338515C8.752@sunflower.com>
>> If you only want the poster or program by
itself, the
>>
price is $15.00 for the one item.
>>
Jeffrey Weinberg
>>
Water Row Books
>>
PO Box 438
>>
Sudbury MA 01776
>>
Tel 508-485-8515
>>
Fax 508-229-0885
>>
EMail Waterrow@aol.com
JW,
Just
saw the above. Hope I'm not too late.
I'd
very much like a poster. It's Friday night, 8:30, don't want to bother
you at
this time. I'll call in the A.M.
Looking
forward to seeing the Beat-L t-shirt design.
Appreciate
you working this out for everyone.
j grant
BE ON THE WATCH
for
items stolen from the Keroauc Collection
O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell
http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html
Academic
& Small Press Authors & publishers
display books free at
<http://www.bookzen.com>
302,443
visitors since July 1, 1996
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:37:20 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: San Fran Correction
There's
another thread about an old hippy remembering San Francisco. Maybe
this
one should be an old punk rocker remembering San Francisco.
I told
the fellow who will be in SF to go up broadway to the park.
Broadway
is east west. Go North up Columbus.
It is
thre blocks up or so.
City
Lights is at Columbus and Broadway.
It's a
short walk to the park where jack hung out.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:41:20 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Ann Charters Interview
Jerry
Cimino wrote: . . .
>
Well, folks, I've done my due diligence.
Ann Charters may not be talking on
>
this list and she may not be the president of the Gerry Nicosia fan club, but
>
she doesn't contradict his arguments either, at least not in this interview.
> In fact, she supports them.
Jerry--
Which
shows that she has class. Nicosia
simply refers to her as a
Sampas
stooge (and probably on his payroll), despite the fact that her
work on
Kerouac is certainly at a minimum as substantial as his, and I
would
argue considerably more .
J
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:51:26 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: San Francisco
Michael
Stutz wrote:
>
> On
Fri, 23 May 1997, R. Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
>
> I will be traveling to San Francisco in early June. I intend to go to
>
> City Lights. Can anyone offer
ideas on particularly "beat" sites to
>
> check out.
>
>
Besides the front of the store where a legendary beat photo was taken with
>
lf, nc, rl and others, I hear they got a whole isle in the back dedicated to
>
just beat authors.
>
>
har har har
Or go
to the Mission district, where it would be happening if Beat was
now.
J
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:53:23 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: old hippy trying to remember san
fransisco.
Patricia
Elliott wrote:
>
>
when i was young old, i went to san fransisco and went to hear a local
>
read, bokowski, he sat on a stage in an
movie theatre and read. he sat
> on
a lawn chair with a small refrigerator next to him and he pulled out
>
beers during the reading. During
questions one man who had asked
>
stupick anal questions like do you think you write real literature asked
> if
he thought any one would take him serious if he sat there and drank
>
beer. B's response was to say, here
have one, then proceeded to throw
> an
open beer to the guy, it twirling like a helocopter blade sprewing us
>
all. We sat there thinking wow. now that guy had to be beat related.
> I
wish i could figure out what theatre that was.
there were many great
>
readings there.
>
patricia
Patricia,
I have
no idea what the theatre would have been, could have been a
number
of venue's--what part of town? But good
old Buk was an LA
boy--not
an SF local.
J
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:57:14 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Early Morning Thoughts
Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
How many people on the Beat-List have
received a
>
copy of the KQED radio show from San Francisco on which George Tobia talks
>
about Jan Kerouac selling a warrant that belonged to her mother? Don't all
>
raise your hands at once. (Chaput,
please put your hand down--we know you
>
have one.)
> Off to shoot some hoops,
> Gerry Nicosia
Gerry,
I never
got a tape of the show, I heard it while driving to work. As
you
know living here the Krazny (sp?)program has a pretty wide
listenership.
J
Stauffer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 20:39:07 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Thoughts for Jack
I bow
to Pam Plymell, let the fight go on as far as I'm concerned.
Let's
just not forget who the subject is.
We're talking about Jack
Kerouac
here, and it's hard for me to imagine that as he sat in the Six
Gallery
expertly flicking the tops of cheap wine bottles and getting the
crowd
fired up while Allen Ginsberg got ready to make them all famous
that he
saw ahead to this sorry mess.
I
SOMETIMES TALK TO
KEROUAC
WHEN I DRIVE
Jack?
Yesterday
I thought of something
I never
had a chance to tell you
and now
I don't know what it was
Remember?
Lew
Welch
SMALL
SENTENCE TO DRIVE YOURSELF SANE
The next time you are doing something
abolutely
ordinary,
or even better
the next time you are doing something
absolutely
necessary,
such as pissing, or making love, or shaving or
washing
the dishes or the baby or yourself or the room,
say to
yourself
"So it's all come to this!"
Lew
Welch
Sitting
here drinking and smoking and thinking about all this shit, but
what I
really am doing is listening to John Lee Hooker and Van Morrison
doing
their thing--
"Dr
put you on milk, cream and alcohol"
"You
need to go see a Dr. instead of your favorite nurse"
"Backbiters
and syndicators hang around outside your door"
AS for
me, I know I'm not going to the Dr--but might start calling my
favorite
nurses. Have a good Memorial Day
everyone. People die in
wars.
James
Stauffer
Lew
Welch said, in a much less PC world
COMPORTMENT
Think
Jew
dance
nigger
dress
and drive Oakie
I say
Think
Czech
dance
Brazilian
dress
and drive Italian
smoke
Humboldt County
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 23:47:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Early Morning Thoughts
At
03:39 PM 5/23/97 -0700, you wrote:
> How on earth did Mr. Chaput know of that
phone call?
>>>I
can't imagine his radio is so powerful he picks up San Francisco stations
>>>in
Lowell, Massachusetts?
>>
>>(note****a
tape of this radio conversation has widely circulated from a
>>source
unnamed in California...)
>>
> (Paul A. Maher)
>
>Dear
Paul: May 23, 1997
>
> Your apologetics for Mr. Chaput and
Mr. Sampas give me a hearty laugh.
****I
am not "apologetic" for anyone, when there is a statement that can be
amended
by something I know of differently, I will state it "heartily..." I
would
do the same for you.
> I suppose Jan Kerouac's income tax
returns were also "widely
>circulated
from a source unnamed in California."
>
***I do not know about that...
Widely
circulated?
well....I
got a tape from a tape from a tape froma tape etc.etc
etcetcetcetcetcetc
How many people on the Beat-List have
received a
>copy
of the KQED radio show from San Francisco on which George Tobia talks
>about
Jan Kerouac selling a warrant that belonged to her mother? Don't all
>raise
your hands at once. (Chaput, please put
your hand down--we know you
>have
one.)
> Off to shoot some hoops,
> Gerry Nicosia
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 21:19:24 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: old hippy trying to remember san
fransisco.
Patricia
Elliott wrote:
>
> M.
Cakebread wrote:
>
>
>
> At 03:38 PM 5/23/97 -0500, Patricia wrote:
>
> >when i was young old, i went to san fransisco and went to hear a local
>
> >read, bokowski, he sat on a
stage in an movie theatre and read.
>
>
>
> Sounds like the "Red Vic" (I believe that's the name - there's
>
> a bed'n'breakfast next door?) on Haight St.
>
>
>
> Could be my faulty circuiting?
>
> Mike
>
yes yes, neat, thanks
> p
Still
mostly a movie theatre and still going strong.
James
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 00:23:07 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Dawn B. Sova"
<DawnDR@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
Dear
ekiM:
>From
MY point of view, it might be more "sez the fly to the spider"!
Dawn
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 00:09:27 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: talk dirty to me
<mutton@JANE.PENN.COM>
Subject: Re: a calm request
tiffs
make me happy
they
are fuuunny
continue
----------
: From:
Lisa M. Rabey <lisar@NET-LINK.NET>
: To:
Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
: Subject:
Re: a calm request
: Date:
Friday, May 23, 1997 6:13 PM
:
: At
06:39 PM 5/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
:
>Well, Lisa, like I said, you are one amazing person.
: >
:
>And regarding your "long nick name", it's obvious your friend
knows you
quite
: >well.
: >
: >
:
>Hey, Lisa, I'd love to match wits with you further, but my parents
drilled
it
:
>into me as a young man that I should not duel with an unarmed opponent.
: >
:
>ta ta,
: >
: >
:
>Jerry Cimino
: >
: >
:
: Well
as my mother told me, if you can't say something nice, then come
over
: and
sit by me!
: Its
not about "matching" wits, but heck, if your going to argue with
"me"
: you
might as well
: A:
read what I post instead of paraphrasing it.
: b:if
your going to quote me, might as well quote what was said instead of
:
inserting what you *think* was said. Saves a lot of time and engergy.
:
:
: ttfn.
:
: lisa
:
: --
:
: Lisa
M. Rabey
:
Internet and Computer Consultant
: San
Francisco, California
:
http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye
:
**************************************
:
General man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 00:40:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "R. Bentz Kirby"
<bocelts@SCSN.NET>
Subject: Re: Thomas Pynchon
Comments:
To: Rob Holton <rholton@OKANAGAN.NET>
--- On
Fri, 23 May 1997 17:23:00 -0700 Rob
Holton
<rholton@OKANAGAN.NET>
wrote:
> In
his introduction to Slow Learner, his collection of early
short
>
stories,
>
Pynchon details the important Beat influence on his work and
calls
>
himself
>
post-Beat. There are quite few
connections.
>
>
Rob Holton
>
>
> R.
Bentz Kirby wrote:
>
>
>
> Is Thomas Pynchon beat? I love,
but can't understand, his
work. I am
>
> not sure if he is beat or not.
>
>
> Bentz
>
> bocelts@scsn.net
>
> http://www.scsn.net/users/sclaw
---------------End
of Original Message-----------------
Well, I
know he plays on urban myths with the alligator in the
sewer
thing. And I always thought that
several of his ideas
seemed
very beatific. But, as a lawyer, I am
sure that I don't
know
shit from shinola.
;-)
--------------------------------------------------------
Name:
R. Bentz Kirby
E-mail:
R. Bentz Kirby <bocelts@scsn.net>
Date:
05/24/97
Time:
00:27:51
This
message was sent by Z-Mail Pro - from NetManage
NetManage
- delivers Standards Based IntraNet Solutions
--------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 00:43:01 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: rants raves and other quandries
At
12:23 AM 5/24/97 -0400, nwaD wrote:
>Dear
ekiM:
>
>
>>From
MY point of view, it might be more "sez the fly to the spider"!
!!nwaD
no thgiR
ekiM
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 00:54:45 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: a calm request-Lisa is right
At 03:44
AM 5/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Derek,
Marie, Lisa, et al...
>
>I
agree a lot of this is distasteful. I
agree too much of it is juvenile.
>But
it is serving a very large purpose.
>
>Look
at who does *nothing* but shout and moan.
The very same people who
>refuse
to answer honest questions. These
people have raised the level of
>rhetoric
time and time again because they have no legitimate argument to
>make. Now Chaput is calling for a truce. Why?
Because he knows he's
>beaten. Tracy gave him a gift by asking if he was
really serious about his
>"Gerry
is a thief because he xeroxed Jack's letters" post which allowed him
>to
come back with "it was a joke".
This
above is a good example of what Lisa was talking about how you
misquote.
As in her post below.
A: read
what I post instead of paraphrasing it.
b:if
your going to quote me, might as well quote what was said instead of
inserting
what you *think* was said. Saves a lot of time and energy.
I may
not be a scholar but usually when you put quotation marks around what
you are
calling someone's post, it means they actually said that.
You see
Jerry the reason why is if someone reads your post they may not have
had the
opportunity to see the ORIGINAL POST and they would actually think I
said
this-----"Gerry is a thief because he xeroxed Jack's letters"-----
when
in fact
I never did say that now did I Jerry? In fact I never said the word
"thief"
nor did I say ONLY it was illegal to xerox what I said was it was
illegal
to "xerox and sell" an authors letters, that when he told people it
was for
his personal use and then turned around and sold the letters that
THAT
was illegal. It was just a point I made. My opinion and I'm not a lawer
nor do
I want one (Thanks anyway and Welcome.-R. Bentz Kirby-beat attorney)
Does
anyone on the list think they can copy an authors words whether it is
in the
form of a letter or manuscript or book or whatever and then sell it
for
cash. It really doesn't matter if it was to a University or to someone
on the
street. If you could do that it wouldn't be very good to be a writer
now
would it. Gerry should be proud of his archive. I mentioned long ago I
thought
his book was and I quote "Great!" What he did putting together that
ENTIRE
archive is historic, grand , an amazing accomplishment and I'm not
trying
to be funny I'm being very serious. An invaluable tool for scholars.
At
todays prices it probably would be worth as much as Ann Charters ( I
heard
quarter million) archive. I repeat the archive is not "closed" it is
just
that SCHOLARS who want to do research will need permission from the
person
who was interviewed to read those interviews, or letters and if that
person
is deceased then their heirs must give permission and yes that would
include
Kerouac's heirs. Unless something has changed since I was last at