beat list 1997

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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 18:56:41 CDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Wes Lundburg <wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>

Subject: Re: Foucault

david wrote:

>currently i have his "subject and power" essay by the toilet. what's

>the "author" one in .......

>and how would he define "Beat"?

Hey, david!

My copy of "What Is an Author?" is in _The Foucault Reader_, ed. Paul Rabinow,

New York: Pantheon, 1984. I think this book is still in print, and should be in

any college library. I don't think this essay was published in any previous

collection, but I'm probably wrong.

How would he define "beat"? Heh, heh, heh. I'll tell you this: he WAS beat!

Spent the last half of his life pushing things over the edge to try to

experience everything he could. His doing this in the "leather" underworld of

San Francisco resulted in his contracting AIDS... which is what eventually

killed him (1984). I certainly don't recommend his way of living Beat...

Anyway, his work is, IMO, in the spirit of Beat-ness...

---Wes

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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 21:48:17 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Subject: Beat Books Garage Sale III

Time to make some room on the shelves!

Sometime in the next few days I will be e-mailing a list of Beat, Beat

related and a few non-beat books I have lying around. It will include about

30 titles by virtually all of the major beat writers - nothing over $20, most

in the $5 to $10 range. Virtually all of the books offered will be "reader"

copies, no limited editions, decent but less than perfectly pristine

condition and definately nothing from the Kerouac Estate!

To receive an e-mail copy of the items for sale, please e-mail me PRIVATELY

(Hpark4@aol.com), not to the full BEAL-L list. Also, the list will not be

posted on the BEAT-L list.

If you wish to recieve an e-mail with the books for sale, please reply

PRIVATELY soon. The chances are that I will send the list by Sunday or

Monday. If you responded to the "sale" several months ago, I have saved your

e-mail address, but if you want to be sure to recieve my list it is a good

idea to respond again. I anticipate that most of the books will sell

quickly.

Thanks and sorry for this semi-commercial intrusion.

Howard Park

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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 23:07:08 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject: Re: karmic check-up from JK hisself/pome of day

Marie Countryman wrote:

> from : The Scripture of the Golden eternity

> 1

> did i create that sky? yes, for, if it was

> anything other than a concepton in my mind

> i wouldnt have said 'sky' --that is why i am the

> golden eternity. there are not two of us here,

> reader and writer, but one, one golden eternity,

> one-which-it-is,-that-which-everything-is

reminds me of ontological difference, the difference between being and

that which is

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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 21:37:29 -0700

Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>

Subject: Re: karmic check-up from JK hisself/pome of day

Marie Countryman wrote:

Thanks, Marie, for posting that quote...coincidentally last night I was

reading the same book, and I thought I'd put up the last few

choruses-which I think are the best in the book-for anyone unfamiliar.

The last chorus provides the punchline to the whole thing!

I was smelling flowers in the yard, and when

I stood up I took a deep breath and the blood all

rushed to my brain and I woke up dead on my

back in the grass. I had apparently fainted,

or died, for about sixty seconds. My neighbor

saw me but he thought I had just suddenly

thrown myself on the grass to enjoy the sun.

During that timeless moment of unconsciousness

I saw the golden eternity. I saw heaven. In it

nothing had ever happened, the events of a

million years ago were just as phantom and

ungraspable as the events of now or of a million

years from now, or the events of the next ten

minutes. It was perfect, the golden solitude, the

golden emptiness, Something-Or-Other, something

surely humble. There was a rapturous ring of

silence abiding perfectly. There was no question

of being alive or not being alive, of likes and

dislikes, of near or far, no question of giving

or gratitude, no question of mercy or judgment,

or of suffering or its opposite or anything.

It was the womb itself, aloneness, alaya vijnana

the universal store, the Great Free Treasure, the

Great Victory, infinite completion, the joyful

mysterious essence of Arrangement. It seemed

like one smiling smile, one adorable adoration,

one gracious and adorable charity, everlasting

safety, refreshing afternoon, roses, infinite

brilliant immaterial gold ash, the Golden Age.

The "golden" came from the sun in my eyelids,

and the "eternity" from my sudden instant

realization as I woke up that I had just

been where it all came from and where it

was all returning, the everlasting So, and

so never coming or going; therefore I call it

the golden eternity but you can call it anything

you want. As I regained consciousness I felt so sorry

I had a body and a mind suddenly realizing I

didn't even have a body and a mind and nothing

had ever happened and everything is alright

forever and forever and forever, O thank you

thank you thank you.

This is the first teaching from

the golden eternity.

The second teaching from the golden eternity

is that there never was a first teaching

from the golden eternity. So be sure.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 02:32:59 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject: Chapoo is Magoo

Phil,

I'm the one who posted the original "Chaput is Kaput" note and everyone else

simply replied to it as you well know. Whether Gerry ought to know better as

to the correct pronunciation isn't an issue at all. And "Kaput" did seem to

sum up your situation. ;-)

Thanks for giving me another opportunity to clear things up, because after

reading your recent posts it makes me realize you really aren't simply Kaput,

you're Mister Magoo! Phil, you're a cartoon character with these insane

arguments you make!

You claim Gerry broke the law by making photocopies of Jack's letters. You

might want to do -your- homework, Phil. It's legal to make a copy for your

personal use. And you accuse Gerry of not checking his facts!

Phil, how about if you answer some questions for a change? You fire assinine

questions out by the dozens but don't answer any questions at all. Of course

you're in good company... Anstee and Weinberg aren't any good at answering

questions either - only making accusations.

Phil, why don't you tell us how much funding LCK! gets from John Sampas?

This is a very valid question that goes directly to motivation and I am sure

you will either dodge it or simply not answer at all. I think it is

important for people to know how much support your organization gets from the

Sampas family. I know you'll come back (if you come back at all) saying that

is priveleged information etc, just like some of your friends who can do

nothing more than make accusations, but there is no reason in the world why

you can't at least tell us a percentage. Is it 10%? 50%? 100%? Prove me

wrong, Phil. Show us you can speak with candor instead of always trying to

muddy up the works.

Phil, you've said on more than one occassion you can't believe Stella Sampas

would have forged the will. I don't recall Nicosia ever saying it was Stella

who did it. But be that as it may what makes you think you can judge what

another person is capable of doing? Do you think the Unabombers mother

could have believed her son was capable of what he did? Or Timothy

McVeigh's? Or Son of Sam's? Now before you go popping off I'm comparing

anyone to mass murderers calm down and understand -this is an analogy,

Phil-. I'm not saying anyone is a murderer! My making an analogy does not

mean you get to change the subject by saying I'm saying Stella or anyone else

is a murderer. Understand? I'm simply saying you can't be inside anyone

else's head so how can you know what anyone else is really capable of doing?

C'mon, Phil... answer the questions:

1). How much funding does LCK! get from the Sampas family?

2). What other -evidence- do you have Nicosia is wrong about anything?

The issue is the archives. Let's stay focussed on that!

Jerry Cimino

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 00:46:35 -0700

Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>

Subject: Re: karmic check-up from JK hisself/pome of day

Hello,

If you all have this post already, don't mind me...I was told it didn't

go through.

Adrien

So lemme try again...

Marie Countryman wrote:

Thanks, Marie, for posting that quote...coincidentally last night I was

reading the same book, and I thought I'd put up the last few

choruses-which I think are the best in the book-for anyone unfamiliar.

The last chorus provides the punchline to the whole thing!

I was smelling flowers in the yard, and when

I stood up I took a deep breath and the blood all

rushed to my brain and I woke up dead on my

back in the grass. I had apparently fainted,

or died, for about sixty seconds. My neighbor

saw me but he thought I had just suddenly

thrown myself on the grass to enjoy the sun.

During that timeless moment of unconsciousness

I saw the golden eternity. I saw heaven. In it

nothing had ever happened, the events of a

million years ago were just as phantom and

ungraspable as the events of now or of a million

years from now, or the events of the next ten

minutes. It was perfect, the golden solitude, the

golden emptiness, Something-Or-Other, something

surely humble. There was a rapturous ring of

silence abiding perfectly. There was no question

of being alive or not being alive, of likes and

dislikes, of near or far, no question of giving

or gratitude, no question of mercy or judgment,

or of suffering or its opposite or anything.

It was the womb itself, aloneness, alaya vijnana

the universal store, the Great Free Treasure, the

Great Victory, infinite completion, the joyful

mysterious essence of Arrangement. It seemed

like one smiling smile, one adorable adoration,

one gracious and adorable charity, everlasting

safety, refreshing afternoon, roses, infinite

brilliant immaterial gold ash, the Golden Age.

The "golden" came from the sun in my eyelids,

and the "eternity" from my sudden instant

realization as I woke up that I had just

been where it all came from and where it

was all returning, the everlasting So, and

so never coming or going; therefore I call it

the golden eternity but you can call it anything

you want. As I regained consciousness I felt so sorry

I had a body and a mind suddenly realizing I

didn't even have a body and a mind and nothing

had ever happened and everything is alright

forever and forever and forever, O thank you

thank you thank you.

This is the first teaching from

the golden eternity.

The second teaching from the golden eternity

is that there never was a first teaching

from the golden eternity. So be sure.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 07:36:59 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "Michael L. Buchenroth" <mike@INFINET.COM>

Subject: Last Gasp

Thanks to a BEAT-L post a few weeks back, I snail mailed Last Gasp for a

catalog. I received my fantastic Spring 1997 Last Gasp catalog yesterday.

In it, they list their web site, www.lastgasp.com

Here they have a large online catalog with S. Clay Wilson, R Crumb, 13

ZAP Comix reprints for $2.95 each, Tim Leary comics, a huge selection of

books and comics, etc etc etc. complete with a running slide show

highlighting their wares. I want to share this fantastic web site with

BEAT-L readers!

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 07:59:37 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject: pome/thought for the day

In-Reply-To: <33833A5E.65BD@sunflower.com>

THREE LAMENTS - Diane DiPrima

Alas

I believe

I might have become

a great writer

but

the chairs

in the library

were too hard

I have

the upper hand

but if I keep it

I'll lose the circulation

in one arm

III

So here i am the coolest in New York

what dont swing i dont push.

In some Elysian field

by a big tree

I chew my pride

like cud.

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:58:37 +0200

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject: Fare ye well, crash the CLASH.

In-Reply-To: <l03020902afa9320b2a40@[141.224.144.84]>

15 years later

fare ye well

clash, awright!

i quote:

Hungry darkness of living

Who will thirst in the pit?

She spent a lifetime deciding

How to run from it

GHETTO DEFENDANT

COMBAT ROCK,

THE CLASH, 1982

yrs Rinaldo *a beatspotting & a not competent beat & a beet*

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 08:50:31 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject: pop quiz

In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970522135837.00686890@pop.gpnet.it>

what is the sound of one ego clapping?

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 07:53:05 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject: Re: pop quiz

Marie Countryman wrote:

> what is the sound of one ego clapping?

a Freudian fart

dbr

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 09:47:49 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Rod Anstee <Nastees@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: QUESTIONS?

In a message dated 97-05-22 03:12:07 EDT Jerry C. wrote:

> Anstee and Weinberg aren't any good at answering

>questions either - only making accusations.

Jerry, ol' bean, did you ask me a question? Sorry, if I missed it -- ask

away!

As for "accusations" -- I've expressed my opinions, forcefully at times

(certainly, it's an important subject), and even humourously at times (I

hope!).

Sadly, my opinions have no force in law. Nor do any of our discussions about

this issue on the Beat-List, no matter how heated and earnest, which is why I

believe we'll never see a bona fide Sampas representative here, as Gerry so

devoutly wishes. Any competent second-year law student would advise his

client thus. The difference is that, unlike Gerry's lawyer, the Sampas lawyer

apparently doesn't have a fool for a client!

CHEERS, Rod

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:05:19 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject: Re: pop quiz question 2

In-Reply-To: <338441B1.2B9B@midusa.net>

>Marie Countryman wrote:

>> what is the sound of one ego clapping?

>a Freudian fart

>db

ok: now, if a freudian farts in the wildnerness, does anyone care?

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:28:28 +0200

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: paul caspers <caspers@WORLDONLINE.NL>

Subject: Re: Nice people swallow..

At 07:49 AM 5/21/97 -0700, you wrote:

>> Premise #1 Swallowing is a basic biological process.

>> Premise #2 Nice People swallow

>> Therefore Niceness is a basic biological process for people.

>> the same thinking applies somewhat to other notions such as "inhaling"!!

>David,

>I like this logic. "Nice people do" works for me. They certainly

>inhale. This suggests logical problems for mc's "mean people suck"

>since sucking is also basic biological behavior and therefore nice?

premise #1 People need to swallow in order to feed themselves

premise #2 Sucking is merely non-essential (biological) behavior

premise #4 Nice people swallow

premise #5 Mean people suck

therefore Niceness is necessary

and Meanness is not

-Paul C.

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:27:41 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject: Re: MEMORY BABE

At 05:44 PM 5/21/97 -0700, you wrote:

> Antoine Maloney in Montreal writes to ask if MEMORY BABE, my

>biography of Kerouac, is out of print.

> No, it is very much in print with University of California Press.

> You can order it directly from University of California Press at

>1-800-822-6657. It's now $20 plus shipping and, depending on where you

>live, sales tax too.

> Or, if you want a signed copy, you can order it from me, $30

>postpaid (cash, check, or money order). (Allow time for checks to clear.)

> Thanks for your interest, Antoine.

> Best, Gerry Nicosia

>At 10:48 AM 5/21/97 -0700, you wrote:

>Dear Phil, May 21, 1997

> To answer one of your reasonable questions--concerning the 2,000

>xeroxed Kerouac letters in the MEMORY BABE archive at U Mass, Lowell.

>(Letters that are now under seal because of John Sampas's threat to take

>legal action against the library if they show them without his permission.)

> The reason they were xeroxes is because by far the majority of those

>people I interviewed would not let me carry off their original Kerouac

>letters. But they let me xerox them for my own use.

Let me get this straight they let you use them for your own use right?

"But they let me xerox them for my own use."GN

Did you tell them your own use was to sell them for cash and make $7500 with

U-LOWELL Answer??????????

>P.S. You also better go back to law school, or perhaps you were cutting

>classes the day they went over property rights. If I pay for a xerox copy,

>that piece of paper belongs to me, and I can give it away or sell it or

burn it--whatever I please. GN

So let me get this straight if we on the beat-l list pay for a xerox copy of

your book "Memory Babe"or any other book, then because we paid for the copy

we can give it away or sell it. No wonder John Lash thinks you shouldn't be

the literary executor of Jan's estate.

I propose I will start copying Gerry Nicosia's "Memory Babe" tonight. I have

a very fast laser printer with a scanner and I'll be able to sell a copy for

about $4.00. It's legal Gerry says it is. Hey this could get pretty

lucrative. Now if I sent the book that I copied what would you charge for to

sign a bunch. Could I get like 100 signed for say 50 cents apiece. Then it's

not bad $4.50 for your book signed. But it's OK because the scholar says

it's legal. If you agree to sign a hundred for 50 cents and John Sampas

signs them for 50 cents Then it would only be $5.00. An incredible deal and

a great "estate keepsake" for our listeners. Any takers I'm taking orders as

we speak. Any body want one? Don't worry, Gerry says it's all 100% legal and

he should know he is a great scholar and very knowledgable in literary

estate matters.

I'll do Kerouac paperbacks for like 99 cents (there small) that shouldn't be

a problem right Gerry.

Rod if your listening. I do have a big buyer for that stuff we talked about.

It's an all cash deal and you can make some big money on that.I couldn't

believe how much money he was talking about.We can both walk away very happy

E-mail me privately- I'm Serious! Phil

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 09:43:13 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject: Re: pop quiz question 2

Marie Countryman wrote:

> >Marie Countryman wrote:

> >>

> >> what is the sound of one ego clapping?

> >

> >a Freudian fart

> >

> >db

> ok: now, if a freudian farts in the wildnerness, does anyone care?

anyone doesn't care, if anyone can smoke in the wilderness ...?....

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 09:46:20 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject: Re: Nice people swallow..

paul caspers wrote:

> At 07:49 AM 5/21/97 -0700, you wrote:

> >> Premise #1 Swallowing is a basic biological process.

> >> Premise #2 Nice People swallow

> >> Therefore Niceness is a basic biological process for people.

> >>

> >> the same thinking applies somewhat to other notions such as "inhaling"!!

> >

> >David,

> >I like this logic. "Nice people do" works for me. They certainly

> >inhale. This suggests logical problems for mc's "mean people suck"

> >since sucking is also basic biological behavior and therefore nice?

> premise #1 People need to swallow in order to feed themselves

> premise #2 Sucking is merely non-essential (biological) behavior

> premise #4 Nice people swallow

> premise #5 Mean people suck

> therefore Niceness is necessary

> and Meanness is not

> -Paul C.

i take it the third premise is implied ....

david rhaesa

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 08:23:00 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: runner911 <babu@ELECTRICITI.COM>

Subject: Re: Nice people swallow..

In-Reply-To: <338356CF.6D73@sunflower.com>

At 1:10 PM -0700 5/21/97, Patricia Elliott wrote:

> Lisa,

> you are a treasure.

> p

yes, thank you. I usually just skim the headings of this list and well,

couldn't pass this one up. Have passed it along to various male and female

friends already. Reminds me of the 'how-to-cunnilingus' text that I found

on the web somewhere.

and somewhat offtopic, please let me relate this little bit of info.

Friend and I were talking during lunch the other day, and we got to talking

about sex, (geez I don't know how that happened) and finally he tells/shows

me what is usually said of sex: <wiping his forearm across the mouth

slowly, eyes locked in a tiger embrace, "now, you owe me!!"> I thought

this hilarious and have been waiting for the opportunity to tell it.

cheers and thanx again, Douglas

<<"what do they call that spot

at the base of the neck?

right there, I want it"

(quasi-ralph fiennes

_english patient_)>>

> http://www.electriciti.com/babu/

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 08:27:53 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject: Don't be puttin down Mr Magoo

That's right

Don't be puttin down Mr Magoo

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 11:42:57 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Re: strange quote from On The Road by Jack Kerouac

In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 22 May 1997 00:14:08 +0200 from <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Well, he wasn't really a policeman. More like a private security guard.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 11:50:30 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Tracy J Neumann <tjneuman@UMICH.EDU>

Subject: Re: MEMORY BABE

In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19970522142741.0068a3c4@pop.tiac.net>

Okay, this is an absolutely ridiculous response. Mr. Chaput, I hope this

was meant in a very facetious manner, because otherwise you are making

yourself sound like a fool. If Mr. Nicosia was told he could copy private

property for use, and the law states that this property (the letters) then

became his property, he did nothing wrong. If you, on the otherhand, take

Mr. Nicosia's book, without his permission, and photocopy and sell it,

that is copyright infringement, and last time I checked, a highly illegal

activity.

While i'm writing, I want to make a few other comments. I subscribed to

this list because I'm planning to write my senior thesis on the cultural

impact of the beats and have generally found this a wonderful forum for

new ideas and resources. I think it's great that Mr. Nicosia is on the

list, because even though I have not yet read his book, I know it is

well-respected and that, he, too is considered an expert on Kerouc. I

consider myself lucky to have access to this sort of resource. Hopefully,

he will not become so disgusted with the juvenile accusations and

namecalling directed toward him that he unsubscribes.

It is ridiculous to expect everyone to get along and 'play nicely," but i

don't think it is out of line to expect a group of adults to treat

eachother with respect and present arguments in a mature and analytical

rather than a sophomoric and accusatory manner (as Jerry Cimino poited out

in an excellent post a few days ago).

And Mr. Nicosia, if Chaput and Anstee are at all representative of the

behavioral level of the Sampas clan, then I don't think you have much to

worry about. A decent judge would laugh them out of the court room.

Tracy

On Thu, 22 May 1997, Phil Chaput wrote:

> At 05:44 PM 5/21/97 -0700, you wrote:

> > Antoine Maloney in Montreal writes to ask if MEMORY BABE, my

> >biography of Kerouac, is out of print.

> > No, it is very much in print with University of California Press.

> > You can order it directly from University of California Press at

> >1-800-822-6657. It's now $20 plus shipping and, depending on where you

> >live, sales tax too.

> > Or, if you want a signed copy, you can order it from me, $30

> >postpaid (cash, check, or money order). (Allow time for checks to clear.)

> > Thanks for your interest, Antoine.

> > Best, Gerry Nicosia

> >

> >At 10:48 AM 5/21/97 -0700, you wrote:

> >Dear Phil, May 21, 1997

> >

> > To answer one of your reasonable questions--concerning the 2,000

> >xeroxed Kerouac letters in the MEMORY BABE archive at U Mass, Lowell.

> >(Letters that are now under seal because of John Sampas's threat to take

> >legal action against the library if they show them without his permission.)

> > The reason they were xeroxes is because by far the majority of those

> >people I interviewed would not let me carry off their original Kerouac

> >letters. But they let me xerox them for my own use.

> Let me get this straight they let you use them for your own use right?

> "But they let me xerox them for my own use."GN

> Did you tell them your own use was to sell them for cash and make $7500 with

> U-LOWELL Answer??????????

> >P.S. You also better go back to law school, or perhaps you were cutting

> >classes the day they went over property rights. If I pay for a xerox copy,

> >that piece of paper belongs to me, and I can give it away or sell it or

> burn it--whatever I please. GN

> So let me get this straight if we on the beat-l list pay for a xerox copy of

> your book "Memory Babe"or any other book, then because we paid for the copy

> we can give it away or sell it. No wonder John Lash thinks you shouldn't be

> the literary executor of Jan's estate.

> I propose I will start copying Gerry Nicosia's "Memory Babe" tonight. I have

> a very fast laser printer with a scanner and I'll be able to sell a copy for

> about $4.00. It's legal Gerry says it is. Hey this could get pretty

> lucrative. Now if I sent the book that I copied what would you charge for to

> sign a bunch. Could I get like 100 signed for say 50 cents apiece. Then it's

> not bad $4.50 for your book signed. But it's OK because the scholar says

> it's legal. If you agree to sign a hundred for 50 cents and John Sampas

> signs them for 50 cents Then it would only be $5.00. An incredible deal and

> a great "estate keepsake" for our listeners. Any takers I'm taking orders as

> we speak. Any body want one? Don't worry, Gerry says it's all 100% legal and

> he should know he is a great scholar and very knowledgable in literary

> estate matters.

> I'll do Kerouac paperbacks for like 99 cents (there small) that shouldn't be

> a problem right Gerry.

> Rod if your listening. I do have a big buyer for that stuff we talked about.

> It's an all cash deal and you can make some big money on that.I couldn't

> believe how much money he was talking about.We can both walk away very happy

> E-mail me privately- I'm Serious! Phil

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:04:54 +0000

Reply-To: davo@cjnetworks.com

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: David Ohle <davo@CJNETWORKS.COM>

Subject: Re: Brad Parker Speaks

Pam: Unfortunately I'll be in Columbus, Ohio when Charley is here.

I'll be editing the posthumous book "Prakriti Junction" by William

Burroughs Jr. and will be looking at the materials for that at Ohio

State library. David O.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:06:18 +0000

Reply-To: davo@cjnetworks.com

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: David Ohle <davo@CJNETWORKS.COM>

Subject: Re: Brad Parker Speaks

It occurs to me now that there are more than one David on this list.

Sorry. D.O.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 12:01:35 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject: Re: MEMORY BABE

FUCKING GROW UP EVERYONE!! Enuff of the little

sarcastic shots at each other. If either side can't

deal with this respectfully take the petty cheap-shots

to private e-mail, PLEASE!! I think it's time to

take a break from Beat-l for awhile, phew...

Sorry, had to say it.

Mike (no more Mr. Nice Guy {;^>)

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 09:19:20 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject: Re: QUESTIONS?

The difference is that, unlike Gerry's lawyer, the Sampas lawyer

>apparently doesn't have a fool for a client!

>CHEERS, Rod

Dear Rod: May 22, 1997

You've GOT A BIG MOUTH, and you made plenty of accusations, and you

haven't substantiated any of them. In my book, that makes you worse than a

fool, it makes you an IGNORAMUS and a BULLSHITTER.

Your belief that people should act secretly and duplicitously would

have made you a good henchman for Richard Nixon. He would have loved you.

In my book, buddy, it's an honorable thing to speak your mind, to be

open, and to tell the truth. You guys are now trying to make it a virtue

that Sampas won't talk, keeps acting in secret, and won't explain what he's

doing with the Kerouac archive.

Sorry, that doesn't wash. Was Nixon innocent and good because he

wouldn't talk? Or what about some mafia guy taking the "fifth amendment"

over and over again? Do we really believe a man's innocent because he keeps

repeating: "I refuse to answer on the grounds that the answer may tend to

incriminate me"?

I said I wasn't going to talk any more about the Kerouac Estate for

a while, to give Sampas a chance to respond privately to me, which I still

hope he will. I'm certainly not demanding that he reveal his business

affairs openly. I am simply saying it's PURE BS for you to claim Sampas is

a better man than me because I openly tell people everything I'm doing and

why, and Sampas remains silent.

Stop calling names, Rod, and put some facts up here. If you've got

any at all.

And by the way, you didn't just buy two letters from the Kerouac

archive, you bought parts of Jack Kerouac's library too. Remember?

Best, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:00:13 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject: Re: MEMORY BABE

Phil Chaput writes:

...-concerning the 2,000

>>xeroxed Kerouac letters in the MEMORY BABE archive at U Mass, Lowell....

>Did you tell them your own use was to sell them for cash and make $7500 with

>U-LOWELL Answer??????????

Dear Phil: May 22, 1997

You asked about my sore lips. Do your lips EVER GET SORE FROM LYING?

I sold my ENTIRE RESEARCH COLLECTION to the University of

Massachusetts, Lowell, for $7,500. There was a 48-PAGE CATALOGUE of items,

of which the 2000 xerox Kerouac letters were only one item. Compare this to

Mr. Sampas's vaunted "8 page list" to the NY Public Library.

In my 48-page catalogue there were almost 100 autograph (original,

not xerox) letters from the likes of Ginsberg, Ferlinghetti, Burroughs,

Carolyn Cassady, Gary Snyder, John Clellon Holmes, et al.

There were also 300 taped interviews (NO ONE HAS EVER DUPLICATED

THIS!) with 300 people who knew Kerouac, and thousands of pages of tape

transcriptions. There were also 4 complete drafts of MEMORY BABE, hundreds

of magazines, articles, mini-archives of related documents given to me by

people like Edie Parker and Stanley Twardowicz, etc. etc.

Jerry's right--you're a cartoon, and a badly drawn one at that.

Better go check yourself into Warner Brothers for redrafting.

Best, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:14:03 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject: Chapoo is Magoo

Dear Jerry, May 22, 1997

Although Phil claims you mispronounced his name (and I agree that

Shapoo is closer to the true French pronunciation) it's a fact that in

Lowell Phil's father Joe was sometimes called Shuh-poot to rhyme with "foot"

or "kaput."

In fact, Tony Sampas, one of Joe Chaput's closest friends, always

called him "Shuh-poot."

Just for the historical record.

Best, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 11:40:05 -0600

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

Subject: Re: QUESTIONS?

In-Reply-To: <199705221619.JAA20525@norway.it.earthlink.net>

people involved in this discussion (you al know who you are)

please take this name calling & insulting & accusations & etc OFF LIST!

this forum ( in my opinion) is for the discussion of beat literature. the

estate conversations have degenerated from literature discussions to

insulting. please do not discuss this here. if any of you want to

contribute or create a conversation about lit, poetry, etc (seperate from

estate & insults) please DO. i welcome any opinions and discussions

concerning beat lit, but please keep the insults down boys.

i welcome any comments.

thanks for yr patience at my little rant

yrs

derek

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:49:22 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: QUESTIONS?

Rod, I welcome the opportunity to ask you some questions. I will ask them in

the spirit of truly understanding your position and without namecalling and

innuendo. I hope you will do the same with your response.

1). Why are Gerry's accusations against Sampas so far fetched for you? He

provides -evidence- for his accusations. So far you have not provided one

shred of evidence in your accusations against Gerry. All you've said is he

is "looney or paranoid or on a crusade". You may or may not have used those

exact words, but you are trying to shift the debate from the Kerouac Archives

to Gerry Nicosia. Why?

2). Why do you think the debate should be about Jan's income from the estate

over the years or Paul Blake? Those are minor side issues, having nothing to

do with the real issue of the Archives. Why shift the debate?

3). What evidence do you have Gerry is after "power & glory". You know this

is not the case yet you persist in making Gerry the issue and not the

Archives. Why?

4). You're obviously someone who knows more about this situation than you're

saying publicly. What are you aware of that has been sold both publicly and

privately? What items were sold? When? To who? For how much? You're not

a dealer like Jeffrey Weinberg, Rod, so you can't hide behind the cover of

client confidentiality. If you want us to really believe you're impartial,

tell us what you know.

5). You keep saying it's all too complicated so we shouldn't bother trying

to sort it out. Why? Why don't you help us sort it out instead of constantly

trying to shift the issue away from the Archive's to Jan or Gerry or Paul

with personal attacks? Why not tell us what you know and help shine a light

on the topic instead of trying to shift the focus?

6). Tell us what you're real motivations are. Why are you such an apologist

for Sampas? Is it because you're embarrassed your name has come up as

someone who purchased parts of the archives? Are your concerned Gerry will

win in court and that might make it look like you purchased "stolen" property

however legitimate you may have thought the transaction was when you did it?

What is your real motivation here, Rod? Why are you trying so desperately

to silence Nicosia?

That'll do for now. You'll notice these are very broad and general

questions, Rod. A nice fat pitch for you to swing at. If you have any real

or credible evidence you should be able to hit a home run! It'd be a shame

if you didn't even step up to the plate.

Jerry Cimino

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:49:50 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: James William Marshall <iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>

Subject: Estate Babble

'ey all,

I find it funny. It is funny. Two letters that refer to well over a

thousand words on a particular topic. Topic - five letters. Now we're

getting somewhere.

I don't want to suggest that anyone shut the hell up or anything like

that. I don't want to imply that this legal wrangling spits in the face of

all the things for which Kerouac stood. I don't even want to hint that

there doesn't appear to be much sense in this thread; heaven forbid! thread

makes a lot of sense; I was just speaking with my favorite piece of thread

the other day; we were dicussing the difference between sow and sew; thread

said something profound about rocks; I don't remember its point, sorry;

wait, it was something sharp and metallic; no, it was more about growth and

fertility; ah, I can't remember.

Anyway, why don't you wait until the courts settle this organic muck

before you discuss it. I'm beginning to feel very discouraged as I discern

the personalities of those people in who's hands Kerouac's works lie and are

lying. Again, I'm not going to tell you to shut up, grow up, settle down,

cool down or anything to that effect / affect. You have as much right to

write as I. I will, however, politely ask that you guys lend your expertise

to the subject matter of Beat literature rather than focusing solely upon

where the works are physically and who should have them. Perhaps I ask too

much. "Too much, what do you think?" "Too much."

James M.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:01:26 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject: Re: Chapoo is Magoo

At 02:32 AM 5/22/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Phil,

>I'm the one who posted the original "Chaput is Kaput" note and everyone else

>simply replied to it as you well know. Whether Gerry ought to know better as

>to the correct pronunciation isn't an issue at all. And "Kaput" did seem to

>sum up your situation. ;-)

Yes, in your mind anyway.

>Thanks for giving me another opportunity to clear things up, because after

>reading your recent posts it makes me realize you really aren't simply Kaput,

>you're Mister Magoo! Phil, you're a cartoon character with these insane

>arguments you make!

>You claim Gerry broke the law by making photocopies of Jack's letters. You

>might want to do -your- homework, Phil. It's legal to make a copy for your

>personal use. And you accuse Gerry of not checking his facts!

Personal use yes, but when you then sell those letters for cold hard cash no.

>Phil, how about if you answer some questions for a change? You fire assinine

>questions out by the dozens but don't answer any questions at all. Of course

>you're in good company... Anstee and Weinberg aren't any good at answering

>questions either - only making accusations.

>Phil, why don't you tell us how much funding LCK! gets from John Sampas?

> This is a very valid question that goes directly to motivation and I am sure

>you will either dodge it or simply not answer at all. I think it is

>important for people to know how much support your organization gets from the

>Sampas family. I know you'll come back (if you come back at all) saying that

>is priveleged information etc, just like some of your friends who can do

>nothing more than make accusations, but there is no reason in the world why

>you can't at least tell us a percentage. Is it 10%? 50%? 100%? Prove me

>wrong, Phil. Show us you can speak with candor instead of always trying to

>muddy up the works.

>Phil, you've said on more than one occassion you can't believe Stella Sampas

>would have forged the will. I don't recall Nicosia ever saying it was Stella

>who did it.

He has made that SUGGESTION many times. Who is he suggesting did it?

But be that as it may what makes you think you can judge what

>another person is capable of doing? Do you think the Unabombers mother

>could have believed her son was capable of what he did? Or Timothy

>McVeigh's? Or Son of Sam's? Now before you go popping off I'm comparing

>anyone to mass murderers calm down and understand -this is an analogy,

>Phil-. I'm not saying anyone is a murderer! My making an analogy does not

>mean you get to change the subject by saying I'm saying Stella or anyone else

>is a murderer. Understand? I'm simply saying you can't be inside anyone

>else's head so how can you know what anyone else is really capable of doing?

>C'mon, Phil... answer the questions:

>1). How much funding does LCK! get from the Sampas family?

I am not a representative of LCK but I know John Sampas pays for the

Literary prize every year and I believe that's all. It is not a secret at

all. It is common knowledge that he does this and no one is trying to hide

it. I believe it even states it on the brochure for the contest.

>2). What other -evidence- do you have Nicosia is wrong about anything?

>Nicosia tries his best to act like Sampas in in some big conspiracy. Like

when he said only Sampas people knew about the warrant he sold for Jan. That

warrant was placed by Gerry in a Serendipity Books sale or catalog. I

believe it was noticed at a major book show by Sampas' lawyer. He says no

one knew except Sampas people but Gerry must remember when George Tobias

John's attorney called the radio station KQED "Forum" with Mike Craszny

March,31,1995 to ask about why if he wants all the archives to be preserved

why did they sell the only piece of Kerouac material they had. His answer

was they needed the money to get Paul Blake Jr. to a press conference about

the lawsuit. Well didn't Jan make $140,000 in 1993 and $91,000 in 1994 that

same year?I don't think Gerry will deny this. So why did she need to sell

that. Not that I really care why she sold it. It was hers to do what she

wanted with but it just shows the kind of deception Gerry is trying to feed

people. You can't tell me he didn't remember Tobias calling and talking

about it on a major radio show. So I guess it wasn't "inside information"

Jerry by your own admission you only know one side(Gerry's side) of this

whole thing. You have never talked to John Sampas or his representatives

have you? I am not a representative of John Sampas. I really applaud you and

Jo Grant on your efforts for what you think is a good cause. But there is

more than meets the eye. The whole thing boils down to . IS THE WILL FORGED?

We may never know but until that is proven in a court of law the last I

heard in this country. The Sampas family is innocent until proven guilty. I

think when you see the 8 page list of important material you will see that

the Sampas family has put some very important material in the archive at

NYPL. Thanks, Yours Truly,Mr Magoo

>The issue is the archives. Let's stay focussed on that!

>Jerry Cimino

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:08:59 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject: Re: MEMORY BABE

At 11:50 AM 5/22/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Okay, this is an absolutely ridiculous response. Mr. Chaput, I hope this

>was meant in a very facetious manner, because otherwise you are making

>yourself sound like a fool. If Mr. Nicosia was told he could copy private

>property for use, and the law states that this property (the letters) then

>became his property, he did nothing wrong. If you, on the otherhand, take

>Mr. Nicosia's book, without his permission, and photocopy and sell it,

>that is copyright infringement, and last time I checked, a highly illegal

>activity.

Of course it's a joke. I wrote this to show how absurd the statement is. If

he copied the letters for his own use it is legal but when he sold them for

cold cash it becomes illegal like it would if I copied and then sold his

letters or books for profit. Phil

>While i'm writing, I want to make a few other comments. I subscribed to

>this list because I'm planning to write my senior thesis on the cultural

>impact of the beats and have generally found this a wonderful forum for

>new ideas and resources. I think it's great that Mr. Nicosia is on the

>list, because even though I have not yet read his book, I know it is

>well-respected and that, he, too is considered an expert on Kerouc. I

>consider myself lucky to have access to this sort of resource. Hopefully,

>he will not become so disgusted with the juvenile accusations and

>namecalling directed toward him that he unsubscribes.

I think 99% of what he has talked about has been estate stuff so I don't

know how he can be helping you with your resources. I wish he would talk

about Kerouac.

> On Thu, 22 May 1997, Phil Chaput wrote:

>> At 05:44 PM 5/21/97 -0700, you wrote:

>> > Antoine Maloney in Montreal writes to ask if MEMORY BABE, my

>> >biography of Kerouac, is out of print.

>> > No, it is very much in print with University of California Press.

>> > You can order it directly from University of California Press at

>> >1-800-822-6657. It's now $20 plus shipping and, depending on where you

>> >live, sales tax too.

>> > Or, if you want a signed copy, you can order it from me, $30

>> >postpaid (cash, check, or money order). (Allow time for checks to clear.)

>> > Thanks for your interest, Antoine.

>> > Best, Gerry Nicosia

>> >

>> >At 10:48 AM 5/21/97 -0700, you wrote:

>> >Dear Phil, May 21, 1997

>> >

>> > To answer one of your reasonable questions--concerning the 2,000

>> >xeroxed Kerouac letters in the MEMORY BABE archive at U Mass, Lowell.

>> >(Letters that are now under seal because of John Sampas's threat to take

>> >legal action against the library if they show them without his permission.)

>> > The reason they were xeroxes is because by far the majority of those

>> >people I interviewed would not let me carry off their original Kerouac

>> >letters. But they let me xerox them for my own use.

>> Let me get this straight they let you use them for your own use right?

>> "But they let me xerox them for my own use."GN

>> Did you tell them your own use was to sell them for cash and make $7500 with

>> U-LOWELL Answer??????????

>> >P.S. You also better go back to law school, or perhaps you were cutting

>> >classes the day they went over property rights. If I pay for a xerox copy,

>> >that piece of paper belongs to me, and I can give it away or sell it or

>> burn it--whatever I please. GN

>> So let me get this straight if we on the beat-l list pay for a xerox copy of

>> your book "Memory Babe"or any other book, then because we paid for the copy

>> we can give it away or sell it. No wonder John Lash thinks you shouldn't be

>> the literary executor of Jan's estate.

>> I propose I will start copying Gerry Nicosia's "Memory Babe" tonight. I have

>> a very fast laser printer with a scanner and I'll be able to sell a copy for

>> about $4.00. It's legal Gerry says it is. Hey this could get pretty

>> lucrative. Now if I sent the book that I copied what would you charge for to

>> sign a bunch. Could I get like 100 signed for say 50 cents apiece. Then it's

>> not bad $4.50 for your book signed. But it's OK because the scholar says

>> it's legal. If you agree to sign a hundred for 50 cents and John Sampas

>> signs them for 50 cents Then it would only be $5.00. An incredible deal and

>> a great "estate keepsake" for our listeners. Any takers I'm taking orders as

>> we speak. Any body want one? Don't worry, Gerry says it's all 100% legal and

>> he should know he is a great scholar and very knowledgable in literary

>> estate matters.

>> I'll do Kerouac paperbacks for like 99 cents (there small) that shouldn't be

>> a problem right Gerry.

>> Rod if your listening. I do have a big buyer for that stuff we talked about.

>> It's an all cash deal and you can make some big money on that.I couldn't

>> believe how much money he was talking about.We can both walk away very happy

>> E-mail me privately- I'm Serious! Phil

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:32:19 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Ginsberg Memorial in Paterson

On Sunday June 8 at 2:00 pm the Passaic County Community College Poetry

Center will sponsor a memorial for Allen Ginsberg at the Great Falls (in

front of the Special Events Office, McBride and Spruce Streets) where

Stefan Smith will perform on the guitar. Readings will be held at the

Paterson Museum, 2 Market Street. Speakers include Bob Rosenthal, Andy

Clausen, Eliot Katz, Joel Galdernak, Herschel Silverman, Laura Boss,

Danny Shot, Jan Barry. An open poetry reading is also scheduled. For

further information call 201-684-6555

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:58:25 CDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Wes Lundburg <wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>

Subject: Re: QUESTIONS (and the estate battles...)

I had a friend visit last weekend whom I haven't seen for 8 years. It was

amazing how much he and I have both changed over the years. He used to love

debate; now he loves to argue. He used to love truth and seek it diligently;

now he seeks to be right, always. He used to be a friend with whom I sought to

better understand this world; now he's the last person to whom I would take a

topic I want to bounce off a kindred spirit. He is antagonistic, opinionated,

and won't listen to reason. He won't cite the sources he quotes (indeed, he

admits he doesn't remember where he "read" this or that), and he won't

acknowledge good points made by the opposition.

As I said to my wife the day after he left: "... it was like having

conversations with Rush Limbaugh."

The point is, however, that it didn't take my wife and I long to realize that we

wouldn't get anywhere continuing to "debate" issues with him. So, we suggested

that we take his kids to the park. We played on the swings, slid down the

slides, and monkey'ed around on the monkey bars. We tossed a frisbee around,

chased squirrels and woodpeckers, and laughed at the neighborhood kids who

dizzily meandered off the merry-go-round. Next thing we knew, we were all

friendly again. Next thing we knew, we saw the old Marty again, and a

friendship (at least a portion of it) was restored.

That's the beauty of reconciliation. That's the beauty of shifting focus for a

few moments. Suddenly you realize that there's something more important...

something that will make a difference. You realize that in the sweaty ring of

debate, you were wrong, too.

Am I trying to say something to those participating in the debate battle? As

they say in Texas: "Damn straight." :)

Be at peace, fellows. There's something better on that side.

Respectfully, ---Wes

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:09:10 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject: Re: MEMORY BABE

In-Reply-To: <199705221601.MAA32566@ionline.net>

>FUCKING GROW UP EVERYONE!! Enuff of the little

>sarcastic shots at each other. If either side can't

>deal with this respectfully take the petty cheap-shots

>to private e-mail, PLEASE!! I think it's time to

>take a break from Beat-l for awhile, phew...

>Sorry, had to say it.

>Mike (no more Mr. Nice Guy {;^>)

hey there mike, i couldnt agree more, and i thought i had offered my own

opinion as well, but then when one's sense of humor is so out of whack that

my references to 1)the hatfields & 2)the mc-coys 3)the back 40 etc.

but yes please-take it off the list, *please*! as folks appear so turned

off that any attempt to begin a new thread become buried beneath

viturpritive posts to and fro. it's been disenchanting to me that my return

to the list is in midst of such an lord of the flies syndrome.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:26:15 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject: Re: QUESTIONS?

In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.93.970522113648.65738B-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>

thank you derek.

>people involved in this discussion (you al know who you are)

>please take this name calling & insulting & accusations & etc OFF LIST!

>this forum ( in my opinion) is for the discussion of beat literature. the

>estate conversations have degenerated from literature discussions to

>insulting. please do not discuss this here. if any of you want to

>contribute or create a conversation about lit, poetry, etc (seperate from

>estate & insults) please DO. i welcome any opinions and discussions

>concerning beat lit, but please keep the insults down boys.

>i welcome any comments.

>thanks for yr patience at my little rant

>yrs

>derek

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:39:00 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Jennifer Thompson <thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU>

Subject: Re: Gerry N. -- non-estate matter

In-Reply-To: <33835385.1001@midusa.net>

On Wed, 21 May 1997, RACE --- wrote:

> i hope that the trip to Chicago was rewarding. i'd seriously intended

> to visit Thomas Park here and Salina to witness a small celebration in

> route to the larger ones. i thought it would be an interesting learning

> experience. unfortunately, sinus infections and chemical imbalances

> found me passed out on the couch.

> i was wondering if you knew anything about the below. So far, nobody

> has shared any information.

I wanted to respond to the question about text regarding Kerouac's

thoughts on Burroughs. David---you may want to take a look at the section

in Dharma Bums, where Jack visits Burroughs. Although some of it is

presumably fictionalized, he does criticize "Naked Lunch," which of course

at the time was yet to be titled.

Then again, you might already be privy to this information.

Jenn

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 14:54:54 -0700

Reply-To: vic.begrand@sk.sympatico.ca

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Adrien Begrand <vic.begrand@SK.SYMPATICO.CA>

Subject: Re: MEMORY BABE

Marie Countryman wrote:

> it's been disenchanting to me that my return

> to the list is in midst of such an lord of the flies syndrome.

> mc

THE ONLY WAR THAT MATTERS IS THE WAR AGAINST THE IMAGINATION

ALL OTHER WARS ARE SUBSUMED IN IT (DiPrima)

I agree...the intelligent debates are worth reading, but take the

bickering elsewhere.

Adrien

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 14:02:46 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject: Re: Gerry N. -- non-estate matter

At 03:39 PM 5/22/97 -0500, you wrote:

>On Wed, 21 May 1997, RACE --- wrote:

>> i hope that the trip to Chicago was rewarding. i'd seriously intended

>> to visit Thomas Park here and Salina to witness a small celebration in

>> route to the larger ones. i thought it would be an interesting learning

>> experience. unfortunately, sinus infections and chemical imbalances

>> found me passed out on the couch.

>> i was wondering if you knew anything about the below. So far, nobody

>> has shared any information.

>I wanted to respond to the question about text regarding Kerouac's

>thoughts on Burroughs. David---you may want to take a look at the section

>in Dharma Bums, where Jack visits Burroughs. Although some of it is

>presumably fictionalized, he does criticize "Naked Lunch," which of course

>at the time was yet to be titled.

It had been a long time since I have read Dharma Bums or Desolation Angels,

so I could be wrong, but don't you mean Desolation Angels rather than the

Dharma Bums.

>Then again, you might already be privy to this information.

>Jenn

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:10:34 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Jennifer Thompson <thomjj01@HOLMES.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU>

Subject: Re: Gerry N. -- non-estate matter

In-Reply-To: <199705222102.OAA29117@hsc.usc.edu>

On Thu, 22 May 1997, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

> At 03:39 PM 5/22/97 -0500, you wrote:

> >On Wed, 21 May 1997, RACE --- wrote:

> >

> >> i hope that the trip to Chicago was rewarding. i'd seriously intended

> >> to visit Thomas Park here and Salina to witness a small celebration in

> >> route to the larger ones. i thought it would be an interesting learning

> >> experience. unfortunately, sinus infections and chemical imbalances

> >> found me passed out on the couch.

> >>

> >> i was wondering if you knew anything about the below. So far, nobody

> >> has shared any information.

> >>

> >I wanted to respond to the question about text regarding Kerouac's

> >thoughts on Burroughs. David---you may want to take a look at the section

> >in Dharma Bums, where Jack visits Burroughs. Although some of it is

> >presumably fictionalized, he does criticize "Naked Lunch," which of course

> >at the time was yet to be titled.

> >

> It had been a long time since I have read Dharma Bums or Desolation Angels,

> so I could be wrong, but don't you mean Desolation Angels rather than the

> Dharma Bums.

> I thought it was Dharma Bums, but you may be right. I'll have to go

home and check my Kerouac portable. Thanks for the correction, though.

Jenn

> >Then again, you might already be privy to this information.

> >Jenn

> >

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 17:42:21 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "M. Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject: Re: Gerry N. -- non-estate matter

At 03:39 PM 5/22/97 -0500, Jennifer wrote:

>On Wed, 21 May 1997, RACE --- wrote:

>> i was wondering if you knew anything about the below. So far, nobody

>> has shared any information.

>I wanted to respond to the question about text regarding Kerouac's

>thoughts on Burroughs. David---you may want to take a look at the section

>in Dharma Bums, where Jack visits Burroughs. Although some of it is

>presumably fictionalized, he does criticize "Naked Lunch," which of course

>at the time was yet to be titled.

I believe somewhere in _Vanity Of Duluoz_ there are

a couple blurbs on his feelings towards "O Will Hubbard in

the night." I believe one of them talks about eventually

writing a book about him? Don't have the time to check,

sorry.

Mike