beat list 1997

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Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 22:42:16 -0400

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From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject: test

test

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Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 19:55:05 -0700

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From: "s,a. griffin" <perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>

Subject: Re: Truth

At 11:50 AM 5/18/97 PDT, you wrote:

>At 11:25 AM 5/18/97 -0500, you wrote:

>>forever blunder

>>salvage

>>f o r g e t

>>the blue

>Blunders

>Engineered in coofffeeee shops

>Forgetting universal humanity

>You babies beautiful were innocent,

>now killing colors?

>Then forget the Red, White and Green too.

>Just see black and white, and spam.

>www.ellensburg.com/~digress

green flags and ham

said

Spam I

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Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 19:57:03 -0700

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From: "s,a. griffin" <perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>

Subject: Re: ruth weiss

At 04:14 PM 5/18/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Saw ruth weiss, poet, beat, read the other day backed by a guy on bass. She

>says that she was one of the innovators of reading poetry to jazz, back in

>1956. (she doesn't say originators). She had a nice little workshop before

>her reading where 5 of us just sat around and talked and bs'ed about the

>beats, San Fran in the 50's, and motivations for writing.

>Bonus question- why does ruth weiss write her name in all low caps?

>answer later,

>enjoy, Attile

because she can

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Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 20:01:18 -0700

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From: "s,a. griffin" <perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>

Subject: Re: Truth

At 05:27 PM 5/18/97 -0500, you wrote:

>so the steering column spins

>by the scanning bird

>wearing a hat of fudge

pack it sez the bird

but the fudge

won't

budge

>----------

>: From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

>: To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>: Subject: Re: Truth

>: Date: Sunday, May 18, 1997 12:21 PM

>: a Pakistan screms in the bed!

>: the hearth is lost,

>: my god, we're u?

w/the f.o.'s singing

god is

dead

>: At 11.25 18/05/97 -0500, you wrote:

>: >forever blunder

>: >salvage

>: >f o r g e t

>: >the blue

a message then a

deeper

message

>: >

>: >----------

>: >: From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

>: >: To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>: >: Subject: Re: Truth

>: >: Date: Sunday, May 18, 1997 9:26 AM

>: >:

>: >: this white

>: >: sky blur

>: >: myself

>: >:

>: >: > Truth is an ethereal entity.

somewhere in Massachusetts

ghosts order out for

pizza

the check's in the mail.

>: >: > James M.

>: >: >

>: >

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Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 23:34:53 -0400

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From: Wlt4@AOL.COM

Subject: Re: STARSPOTTING Re: Chaput is Kaput!

In a message dated 97-05-16 03:00:35 EDT, you write:

<< THE Spice Girls sang live last night

for the first time on a stage to show

they can perform their complicated

harmonies >>

Uh, what complicated harmonies??

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Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 23:37:00 -0500

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From: talk dirty to me <mutton@JANE.PENN.COM>

Subject: Re: Truth

sit inside the elephants epidermis

to understand why the you don't

drown in the rain

----------

: From: s,a. griffin <perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>

: To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

: Subject: Re: Truth

: Date: Sunday, May 18, 1997 10:01 PM

: At 05:27 PM 5/18/97 -0500, you wrote:

: >so the steering column spins

: >by the scanning bird

: >wearing a hat of fudge

: pack it sez the bird

: but the fudge

: won't

: budge

: >

: >----------

: >: From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

: >: To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

: >: Subject: Re: Truth

: >: Date: Sunday, May 18, 1997 12:21 PM

: >:

: >: a Pakistan screms in the bed!

: >: the hearth is lost,

: >: my god, we're u?

: w/the f.o.'s singing

: god is

: dead

: >:

: >: At 11.25 18/05/97 -0500, you wrote:

: >: >forever blunder

: >: >salvage

: >: >f o r g e t

: >: >the blue

: a message then a

: deeper

: message

: >: >

: >: >----------

: >: >: From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

: >: >: To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

: >: >: Subject: Re: Truth

: >: >: Date: Sunday, May 18, 1997 9:26 AM

: >: >:

: >: >: this white

: >: >: sky blur

: >: >: myself

: >: >:

: >: >: > Truth is an ethereal entity.

: somewhere in Massachusetts

: ghosts order out for

: pizza

: the check's in the mail.

: >: >: > James M.

: >: >: >

: >: >

: >

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Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 21:55:26 -0600

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From: "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

Subject: fudge wont budge : exquisite corpse (helped myself, sorry)

In-Reply-To: <199705190301.UAA22217@calvin.usc.edu>

> >so the steering column spins

twisting the wheels spitting the spray splash from the streets

> >by the scanning bird

> >wearing a hat of fudge

> pack it sez the bird

> but the fudge

> won't

> budge

being quite comfortable with the flock

> >: a Pakistan screms in the bed!

> >: the hearth is lost,

> >: my god, we're u?

> w/the f.o.'s singing

> god is

never quite

> dead

just sleeping, snoring and

schleping

> >: >forever blunder(ing) with the cocktails and napkins at the bar

> >: >salvaging

> >: >f o r g e t.

the blue:

> a message then a

> deeper

> message

> >: >: "this white

> >: >: sky blur

> >: >: myself"

> >: >: > Truth is an ethereal entity.

but arent we all?

god sleeping head resting on the bar, hands limply at sides, having been

unconscious since the rise of plastic somewhere in Massachusetts

> ghosts order out for

> pizza

> the check's in the mail.

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Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 01:41:38 -0400

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From: Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject: Taking a Stand

It is very gratifying for me to see a number of people have come forward in

the last few days to explain how they feel about "The Issue". Most of those

who have spoken have said they can support one side for certain reasons and

think the other side might be credible as well for other reasons. This is

understandable. This is a very complex situation and it appears there is no

black or white. Getting the issues out on the table and discussing them like

the adults we are is a good start, however.

I'd like to thank those of you who have posted a note or e-mailed me

privately that you're glad we're talking about this and you support my

efforts to spur the debate. A few days ago David Rhaesa referred to me

casually as the "Voice of Reason". I showed it to my wife. The next day she

and I were out walking our dogs and got into a minor disagreement over a

trivial point. I looked her in the eye supressing an easy grin and teased,

"Darlin', there's no sense arguing with the "Voice of Reason". Now she says

there's no living with me!

I apologize to anyone who may think I'm getting boorish and tying up the list

with too many long winded posts. There are a few more issues I'd like to

examine, though.

The first is I have a confession to make. I never had any intention of

getting involved in this Estate Battle. For four years I have avoided it

like the plague and up until two or three weeks ago I had fully expected it

would remain that way.

I first met Gerry Nicosia a number of years ago when we ran a series of

Kerouac related events at our now defunct bookstore. Arthur & Kit Knight

came in one evening and talked about their various works. Another night

Carolyn Cassady led a discussion on her life with Neal and Jack, and her son

John Allen was in attendance lending his unique perspective. A third event

featured Gerry Nicosia talking about Memory Babe.

During the course of this third evening, Gerry engaged me in a private

conversation regarding what was happening with Jan's efforts against John

Sampas. I listened politely but didn't ask a whole lot of questions and

didn't encourage the topic. My wife and I had a business to run. We weren't

making any money at it and quite frankly I really didn't want to get involved

in what looked to me to be a problematic argument at best.

Sometime later I met Gerry Nicosia for the second time at the 1994 NYU

conference. He was one of the few people I knew there and he was kind enough

to help me find a ticket to the sold out Town Hall event. He introduced me

to Paul Blake who was wearing a tee-shirt that had printed on it the now

famous letter Jack wrote to "Little Paul" the day before Jack died. Gerry and

I probably spoke for a total of five minutes at NYU. He briefly once again

tried to win me over to his cause. For the second time I stayed non-commital.

I didn't want to get involved. Gerry gave up on trying to convince me and

we each went about our business.

The point of my telling you this is I want to introduce you to my thought

process regarding this whole affair. I distinctly remember thinking while at

NYU, "Boy, is this a no-win situation. Stay out of it because if you take

sides you're going to piss somebody off and if you back the wrong horse,

you're screwed". I also remember having the very clear thought in my mind,

"It's one thing for somebody to be mad at you because you didn't take a

position. It'll be an entirely different story if the eventual winner is

pissed at you because you agreed with the other side". I remember thinking

if I ever hoped to become a part of this Kerouac community, if I ever hoped

to have access to anything other than the books as they were published, I'd

be best served to stay neutral.

So I blew Gerry off. I made the politically safe choice of not getting

involved.

I haven't seen Gerry Nicosia since. He was scheuled to come in for another

booksigning about a year ago after the re-release of Memory Babe by

UC-Berkeley. We wound up closing our store about a month before that

scheduled date so of course that event got cancelled.

I don't know why after sitting on the fence for so long I finally decided to

publicly state that people should listen to what Nicosia has to say. Maybe

it's because with Jan now dead and Gerry carrying on the fight alone I have

more sympathy, I don't know. All I know is when he was trying to make his

argument here on the Beat-L and his opponents were trying to shout him down,

not with the force of argument but with sheer numbers and noise, I felt I

finally had to take a stand. Politics be damned, he deserved to be heard.

I know there are others out there who don't want to take a public stand

because they don't want to "back the wrong horse". Revealing your position

is dangerous. It forever marks you as aligned with one side or another. For

the people in Lowell, for the people at LCK, for the people involved at the

NYU events, the Whitney exhibit, the Rykodisc, most of these people have ties

to the Estate that is now controlled by John Sampas. Without John Sampas'

cooperation their events would not have even been possible.

If people are keeping quiet it might be because they don't want to risk

ruffling any feathers. I can understand that. I can also understand

Nicosia's pespective. I imagine it is easy for him to view anyone who is

keeping their silence because they want to remain in Sampas' good favor with

access to Kerouac material and involvement in Kerouac events as being in

Sampas' camp. Nicosia may or may not be right about that. In fact I'd bet

he is probably right about some people and wrong about others.

Now I'm not here to embarass or shame anyone that they need to stand up and

be counted. We all do what we do for a variety of reasons... because we

think it is right, because it is politically expedient, because we have

business relationships, because we may or may not be interested.

I do think we should examine our reasons for doing what we do. And I think

it is valid to question the reasons and motivations of others as well. It's

one thing for someone to honestly disagree with someone else because they

think they are wrong. It's quite another when they are less than candid

about their real motivations.

John Sampas may not have been heard on this List, but he has had an influence

on our discussion. There are people here who are involved with him

professionally, and I can appreciate that for them, staying quiet is the

politically expedient choice. There are well known sayings that reflect

their positions... "You don't bite the hand that feeds you" and "Dance with

the one who brung ya" are two that come to mind.

Some times there are other reasons for staying quiet. All of Gerry's most

vocal detractors have been quiet for some time now, I'm sure in the hopes

this thread will play itself out if they can avoid adding fuel to the fire.

They're hoping everyone will get bored with it and go back to focusing on

other every day topics.

We've heard from more than a few people "we should do our own research. We

should not trust anyone's word in this. There are errors/inaccuracies/lying

going on on both sides". I finally figured out what some of these people are

really saying. Some of them are saying, "I don't want to take a public

position because of political expediency. I may have opinions but for my own

reasons I don't want to make them known".

Other people are using the very same words of "do your own research, don't

trust anyone, everybody's lying" to try to muddy up the debate. They know

they can't win the debate with the force of their own argument so they try to

avoid losing it by stirring up the muck. Who is saying what for which

reasons I will leave up to each individual to judge.

There is a term that is commonly used when people know something and may be

able to shed some light on a particular situation but stay quiet for their

own reasons. It's called a "Conspiracy of Silence". Geez! There's that

word again!

Like I said earlier, I don't want to embarrass or shame anyone into speaking

about what they know or taking a public position, but I would like to

-convince- everyone to share what they know. Sharing what you know or what

you believe can only bring more truth to bear on the situation.

BTW, I reject the positon that fighting over the estate is "against

everything Jack stood for" or that "none of it matters anyway". Those are

things we can argue about when we all get to Heaven and find out for sure if

any of it ever really did matter. Here, today on this earth, we're alive and

we have the power to influence events. And regardless of what we may choose

to do every moment of our lives we have to be doing something with our time

and the lives God gave us. And as long as we have to be doing something

maybe we should be doing something that is important and can have an impact

on future generations.

In my opinion Jack Kerouac's Archives meet that criteria.

Jerry Cimino

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Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 23:09:43 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: James William Marshall <iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>

Subject: Re: Bonus Question

My guess: Low Self-Esteem. Maybe an attempt to Suggest That She Lacks

Pretentions.

James M.

P.S. When are you going to let us know the <cough> true story?

=========================================================================

Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 23:24:59 PDT

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From: Mike & Casper -Friendly Ghost <digress@ELLENSBURG.COM>

Subject: Re: Truth

At 11:25 AM 5/18/97 -0500, you wrote:

>forever blunder

>salvage

>f o r g e t

>the blue

>----------

>: From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

>: To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>: Subject: Re: Truth

>: Date: Sunday, May 18, 1997 9:26 AM

>: this white

>: sky blur

>: myself

>: > Truth is an ethereal entity.

>: > James M.

why write in all smalls? Why not?

Inspired by colors short above

my books love today sorting each shelf a hue cohort

it makes more sense now than before.

all the books looks good now.

www.ellensburg.com/~digress

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 03:55:47 -0500

Reply-To: race@midusa.net

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject: Re: Taking a Stand

Jerry Cimino wrote:

A few days ago David Rhaesa referred to me

> casually as the "Voice of Reason". I showed it to my wife. The next day she

> and I were out walking our dogs and got into a minor disagreement over a

> trivial point. I looked her in the eye supressing an easy grin and teased,

> "Darlin', there's no sense arguing with the "Voice of Reason". Now she says

> there's no living with me!

For your wife's sake, it was obvious a typo. should have been "Voice of

Treason" or "Voice of Season" ..... :)

david rhaesa

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 05:25:05 -0500

Reply-To: race@midusa.net

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject: Secret Mullings About Bill

i saw reference yesterday to something like this being a work in

progress of Kerouac's at some point.

given that i'm a burroughs' junkie (and seem to becoming a Kerouacian as

well) i'd love to read Jack's insights into William.

was this ever published in any form? are there photocopies in some

vault?

david rhaesa

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Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:08:43 BST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Thomas Harberd <T.E.Harberd@UEA.AC.UK>

Subject: Question: WSB and Foucault?

Does anyone know if WSB ever met (or read) Foucault? It

seems that they share many common concerns, especially those

relating to power structures and control. They were also

both homosexual, although that's perhaps a bit of a weak

(trite) link. Just wondering...

Tom. H.

http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759

"A Bear of Very Little Brain"

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 08:04:11 -0500

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Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Patricia Elliott <pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>

Subject: Re: Taking a Stand

Jerry Cimino wrote:......

> BTW, I reject the positon that fighting over the estate is "against

> everything Jack stood for" or that "none of it matters anyway". Those are

> things we can argue about when we all get to Heaven and find out for sure if

> any of it ever really did matter. Here, today on this earth, we're alive and

> we have the power to influence events. And regardless of what we may choose

> to do every moment of our lives we have to be doing something with our time

> and the lives God gave us. And as long as we have to be doing something

> maybe we should be doing something that is important and can have an impact

> on future generations.

> In my opinion Jack Kerouac's Archives meet that criteria.

> Jerry Cimino

Jerry i feel for your wife, that was a great post, sound , a story with

that elusive truth ringing.

patricia

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 09:01:50 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: talk dirty to me <mutton@JANE.PENN.COM>

Subject: Re: Truth

at the drive in

in the old mans ford

behind them bushes

till i'm screamin for more

down in the basement

lock the celar door

and baby

talk dirty to me

----------

: From: Mike & Casper -Friendly Ghost <digress@ELLENSBURG.COM>

: To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

: Subject: Re: Truth

: Date: Monday, May 19, 1997 1:24 AM

: At 11:25 AM 5/18/97 -0500, you wrote:

: >forever blunder

: >salvage

: >f o r g e t

: >the blue

: >

: >----------

: >: From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

: >: To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

: >: Subject: Re: Truth

: >: Date: Sunday, May 18, 1997 9:26 AM

: >:

: >: this white

: >: sky blur

: >: myself

: >:

: >: > Truth is an ethereal entity.

: >: > James M.

: why write in all smalls? Why not?

: Inspired by colors short above

: my books love today sorting each shelf a hue cohort

: it makes more sense now than before.

: all the books looks good now.

: www.ellensburg.com/~digress

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 09:06:01 -0500

Reply-To: race@midusa.net

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject: Re: Question: WSB and Foucault?

Thomas Harberd wrote:

> Does anyone know if WSB ever met (or read) Foucault? It

> seems that they share many common concerns, especially those

> relating to power structures and control. They were also

> both homosexual, although that's perhaps a bit of a weak

> (trite) link. Just wondering...

> Tom. H.

> http://www.uea.ac.uk/~w9624759

> "A Bear of Very Little Brain"

some overlap but Foucault didn't wrote thick arhealogical philosophy

while Burroughs wrote thick novels. it seems this choice of form is a

significant difference.

Foucault was primarily a cannabis partaker. bowl on the shelf near his

work table read to unblock writer's block.

but there are some parallels in methods as with all the new critics of

language. Writing was 50 years behind painting and critical theory was

25 years behind Writing.... :)

david rhaesa

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 16:57:22 +0200

Reply-To: Jean.ORY@hol.fr

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Jean ORY <Jean.ORY@HOL.FR>

Organization: ORY Jean

Subject: Looking for quote

Can anybody on the list send me the right quote in English from "On the

road"

It is a five or six lines long text.

Jack Kerouac write something like:

"The only people who counts for me are people who live intensively, who

explodes like fireworks in the sky and every body says: Whaaa!"

Thanks

Jean

I am still looking for any quote of Allen Ginsberg about Jimi Hendrix

He talked about Bob Dylan, the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, the Dead,

Arlo Guthrie, etc.

He must have met Hendrix and said something about him.

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:40:18 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Michael Czarnecki <peent@SERVTECH.COM>

Subject: Re: Looking for quote

Quote from "On the Road" by Jack Kerouac

(Signet paperback edition page 9.)

Speaking about Dean Moriarty and Carlo Marx (Neal Cassady and Allen Ginsburg):

"But then they danced down the streets like dingledodies, and I shambled

after as I've been doing all my life after people who interest me, because

the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad

to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones

who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, burn like

fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars . .

>Can anybody on the list send me the right quote in English from "On the

>road"

>It is a five or six lines long text.

>Jack Kerouac write something like:

>"The only people who counts for me are people who live intensively, who

>explodes like fireworks in the sky and every body says: Whaaa!"

>Thanks

>Jean

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:00:21 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Subject: Re: Looking for quote

In-Reply-To: <v01530500afa5f96e4eea@[204.181.15.86]>

On Mon, 19 May 1997, Michael Czarnecki wrote:

> Quote from "On the Road" by Jack Kerouac

> "But then they danced down the streets like dingledodies, and I shambled

> after as I've been doing all my life after people who interest me, because

> the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad

> to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones

> who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, burn like

> fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars . .

> ."

Why does everyone truncate this passage right at this point? It messes up

the rhythym if you don't complete it, IMHO :

"....and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody

goes 'Awww!'"

*******

Jeff Taylor

taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

*******

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:05:10 -0500

Reply-To: race@midusa.net

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject: Re: Looking for quote

Jeff Taylor wrote:

> Why does everyone truncate this passage right at this point?

what's truncate? is it a good or evil thing?

illiterate in the centre of the universe,

david rhaesa

salina, kansas

p.s. anybody planning the jaunt this way to see Robert Peters, he's on

the third day of a three-day prairie festival and it costs around $20.00

for admission or something like that.

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 13:18:32 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject: I'm baaaack.

Pardon me if this message has been posted once or twice before I have had a

few problems with the sending of my mail and I have modified this a bit.

Gerry, I have been away for a few days. I really didn't go to Greece with

John Sampas although it sounds like it might have been fun. I see since I've

been gone you have posted several messages criticizing me because I

suggested that a Xerox copy would be just as good for a scholar to study as

an original. Wow Gerry, what did you post like ten messages on that such=

as... =20

"When I said let me speak to my equal, I mean someone who has trained in

this area for as many years as I have. I'd like to hear Ann Charters come

on here and try to tell me that "Xeroxes are just as good as originals."

She'd make a laughingstock of herself before the academic community, and

that's why she won't do it. So they send on someone like Chaput instead,

who has nothing to lose."

Best always, Gerry Nicosia

and...

Chaput comes on like a freshman humanities student claiming he knows more

about the world than Plato--but he hasn't even read Plato yet, let alone

understood him.

First off Gerry I would like to ask you. Do your lips ever get sore from

blowing your own horn? Gerry you want to speak to someone you think is your

equal but that's gonna be tough for you after all Jesus Christ is dead and

by the way you talk that's about the only person you think is better than

you. Gerry, I never claimed to be a scholar or that I was an expert on

anything and I don't think I ever said I knew more about the world than

Plato. I don't pretend to be something I'm not. I'm just a shmuck trying to

make a living like everyone else. I just wasn't aware I had to be a scholar

or genius to talk to you on "your level" sorry. And how do you know if I

have read or understood Plato or anyone else for that matter? You really

know nothing about me. And who is the "they" in the above post...So "they"

send on someone like Chaput instead... Gerry are "they" coming to get you

soon? Well about the Xeroxes what I meant was if a university copies a

document (I'm assuming it's done professionally and isn't missing half the

pages) That copy is just as good to study (If it's an exact copy) as the

original. It was just a comment refering to Attila's post on the same

subject. But it really intrigues me when you make a comment like... I'd

like to hear Ann Charters come on here and try to tell me that "Xeroxes are

just as good as originals." She'd make a laughingstock of herself before

the academic community,... well Gerry do you remember this post you made to

Paul Maher:

To Paul Maher: indeed there are 2,000 Kerouac letters (in Xerox) in

my MEMORY BABE collection at U Mass, Lowell, Special Collections (the Mogan

Center)... Best always, Gerry Nicosia

So it seems you come on the list and belittle people about what fools they

are to say something like XEROXES are OK but meanwhile you yourself in your

famous archive have placed according to your own words 2000 XEROX Kerouac

letters in "your" Memory Babe archive. That's XEROX Gerry. What's this a

case of DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO. So whose the laughingstock Gerry? The moon

is made of green cheese. By the way about those XEROX letters that you

copied. Copying an author's letters and selling them without permission is

against the law . As a GREAT SCHOLAR you should know that. I asked my

brother-in-law he's a prosecutor in Arizona and has had some experience with

of U-LOWELL was right when she said you sold her a "crippled" archive no

wonder you couldn't get the other dealers or universities to buy it.=20

Now about the fact that you said John Sampas has only placed a few Xeroxes

of letters in NYPL. I am giving Paul Maher of the "Kerouac Quarterly" a list

of 8 pages of items John Sampas has placed (yes ,through his dealer) in the

BERG collection of the NYPL that list will be published in the next issue of

Paul's "Kerouac Quarterly" .I can assure you these are not XEROXES like

yours and some are manuscripts of major importance. I hope this makes you

feel better. If you or anyone doubts the accuracy of that list, feel free to

call the NYPL and check it with them once the list is published. This should

prove to the readers of the list and a lot of others that some of your

accusations about the Sampas' are unfounded. Your mission is to get all of

Kerouac=92s archives in a University or library for future study. This is a

good thing that I would like to see too. I think we all would. But let's not

live in a fantasy world. It=92s not ours to decide. The reason you think=

that

you and Jan and Paul Blake can do it is because Gabrielle's will is forged.

That=92s the premise for your entire argument. READ PAUL MAHER=92S POST=

ABOUT

THAT-I=92ll post it at the end of this letter. Well I don't think the will =

forged I don't think Stella could have done that (and I knew Stella). I

don't think she would have had to. I think Gabriel would have wanted to

leave it to her after all she was her nursemaid and companion for many

years? So anyhow Gerry even if the will was forged Stella's estate would

still legally get 1/3 of it, Jan's estate with John Lash as executor would

get 1/3 and Paul Blake would get 1/3. So if as you say John Lash is on John

Sampas' side now (he wants you out of the picture right?) and he is the

executor of her estate well that's 2/3 of the entire estate. If they decide

not to put it in an archive they don't have to legally. It would be their

legal property. In the long run even if you win they will do what they want

with their legal property. Think of the position your putting John in. If he

doesn=92t put the stuff in an archive he is a monster according to you and=

he does I=92m sure you will claim he did it because of you. He can=92t win=

with

you. It really won't matter though because John Lash-executor of Jan's

estate will probably win his case against you (It's not John Sampas' case)

and get you taken out of the picture like he wants.

Oh I really enjoyed rod Astees "found poem" thread it did bring some humor

into this whole mess. You must admit it was pretty funny. I know you

enjoyed the Subject "Chaput is Kaput" too you used it a million times but

it's pronounced SHA-POO not SHA-PUT. You know that.

and...

=85What I got instead was Phil Chaput throwing 20 lies a day at me

to answer, to keep me away from any real discussion of what is being done,

and I'm sure there are going to be hundreds more before he's done.

=20

Gerry Nicosia

I thought this WAS a real discussion about what is being done. Let's see 30

days times 20 lies a day That's six hundred lies. That will be a lot of Hail

Mary's and Our Fathers for me at the confessional.=20

I've about had it with your accusations so pardon me if I don't

answer yours or Jo's or Jerry's rebuttals. I'm tired of all this. After your

rebuttal let's take a break and talk about something else.=20

Thanks, Phil Chaput-not a scholar, not

an expert but not a liar. Just voicing my opinion.=20

Subject: Re: Conspiracies

To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>>And like I said before, if we don't do it here on the Beat-L, who will? =

>>have the power to investigate this. Do we have to be so fractured that we

>>can't stand to look at the truth?

The truth? The problem with stating the truth is that the truth will get you

blasted, threatened, ridiculed, and above all, doubted. I sincerely think

the idea of a conspiracy is ill-founded. The signature on the will looks

like any of the other items that are from Gabrielle Kerouac's hand AFTER HER

STROKE. I don't think matching it before she was an invalid is valid and

admittable as evidence.

>And it is not fair. I had the liberty of seeing letters and contracts from

the archive and now I can see what a horrible waste of time this all is. So

there...blast me. I could care less right now for explanations or ways to

make me look foolish or branded an arch-criminal. My educated mind tells me

different than all the propaganda you have been fed. I inquired, I saw, I am

now convinced. Goodnight all, Regards, Paul Maher of The Kerouac=

Quarterly...

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:47:36 -0500

Reply-To: race@midusa.net

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject: Re: I'm baaaack.

Phil Chaput wrote:

the Subject "Chaput is Kaput" too you used it a million times but

> it's pronounced SHA-POO not SHA-PUT. You know that.

Kaput is pronounced Ka-poo at least in my dreams

Kaput is Shampoo

Kaput is Sniffed Glue

Kaput is Swine Flu

we should all change the subject lines to reflect proper pronunciation

david rhaesa

pronounced Racey as in "Spacey Racey" an old nick-name that still haunts

me from time to time.

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 15:50:42 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Clay Vaughan <CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>

Subject: "a baneful influence"

In doing some of my "professional reading" (so-called) here in

the ODU Art Library, I have stumbled across a very wonderful

editorial in the latest issue of that self-appointed Conscience of

Culture, THE NEW CRITERION. Now any of you who are familiar with

this journal will be able to predict their take on the passing of

Allen Ginsberg, but I thought you all might appreciate a little

pick-me-up, a little unintentional humor vis-a-vis the myopic

apperceptions of Hilton Kramer et Co., sentiments that make the

George Will piece on the Ginsberg legacy sound positively balanced

and SOBER!

THE NEW CRITERION's commentary is so completely fatuous, so utterly

ridiculous and rife with paranoia and perceptions so completely off

the mark you might wonder how or why such an editorial piece drooling

and drowning in such blather could appear in their pages... EXCEPT

that THE NEW CRITERION's agenda as such a protector of the retro-

cultural status quo requires that they go on in precisely this way.

Titled "A baneful influence", some of jewels contained therein

include:

"Long before his death at the age of seventy, he had managed to

con a gullible cultural establishment into celebrating him as a

major poetic talent and icon of sexual and political

liberation.... The truth is that Allen Ginsberg was an apostle of

drug abuse, promiscuous homosexuality, and shameless

exhibitionism. He specialized in blending mindless anti-

Americanism with spurious forms of oriental "spirituality."... His

status as a guru of the drug-sodden, blissed out Left made him a

powerful and baneful influence on an entire generation of

adolescents. It is impossible to calculate how many lives

Ginsberg's smiling hedonism blighted...."

and then, on the poetry, whining first about Robert Pinsky's and

Edward Field's favorable remarks, and later couching every instance of

the word "poetry" or "poems" in quotes, suggesting what? we needn't

wonder....):

"...Ginsberg is the perfect literary equivalent of the emperor's

new clothes. From beginning to end, his 'poetry' is nothing but

flatulent adolescent posturing, without art, verbal delicacy, or

poetic subtlety.... He is the Rod McKuen, the Kahlil Gibran of

the counterculture.... Much of Ginsberg's 'poetry' is little more

than a species of self-absorbed pornography...."

and then specifically recalling "Howl", THE NEW CRITERION calling it

an "aptly named verbal cacophany". They say, "The botched lives

Ginsberg reported on were not the 'best minds' of his generation,

not by a long shot. But his example did indeed help to destroy

many more minds and bodies...."

and this goes on and on ad nauseam, til their final flourish

(containing probably my perversely favorite lines):

"...he was a charlatan and a buffoon whose public antics would

have been merely pathetic had they not contributed so mightily to

the moral degradation of our times."

It's an editorial take on that grand poet's legacy which, if there is

a heaven and if Ginsberg has pockets in his heavenly robes, Allen's

walking this commentary around, and pulling out his copy of this

latest for all to read, and doubtless driving all the angels crazy.

Clay Vaughan

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 14:50:08 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "s,a. griffin" <perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>

Subject: Re: fudge wont budge : exquisite corpse (helped myself, sorry)

At 09:55 PM 5/18/97 -0600, you wrote:

>> >so the steering column spins

>twisting the wheels spitting the spray splash from the streets

>> >by the scanning bird

>> >wearing a hat of fudge

>> pack it sez the bird

>> but the fudge

>> won't

>> budge

>being quite comfortable with the flock

>> >: a Pakistan screms in the bed!

>> >: the hearth is lost,

>> >: my god, we're u?

>> w/the f.o.'s singing

>> god is

>never quite

>> dead

>just sleeping, snoring and

>schleping

>> >: >forever blunder(ing) with the cocktails and napkins at the bar

>> >: >salvaging

>> >: >f o r g e t.me nots

> the blue:

>> a message then a

>> deeper

>> message :

don't f o r g e t.to put out the cat

>> >: >: "this white

>> >: >: sky blur

>> >: >: myself"

>> >: >: > Truth is an ethereal entity.

>but arent we all?

>Frank Sinatra as god the rock star sleeping w/head resting on the bar,

hands limply at sides, having been

>unconscious since the rise of plastic somewhere in Massachusetts

>> ghosts of Dean & Sammy order out for

>> pizza

>> the check's in the mail.

the music begins

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 17:53:24 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: ruth weiss

In a message dated 97-05-18 17:18:44 EDT, you write:

<< Bonus question- why does ruth weiss write her name in all low caps?

Because of e.e.cummings.....

....Her shift key was broken? ...she could only afford half-height

typewriter ribbons? ...her version of Word 6.0 was a beta version and was

not caps-capable? ...she is secrtly related to derek beaulieu and marie

countryman and they were all seperated at birth?

.....her position on capital punishment? I give up!

And the answer is (though I liked some of the above answers better): in the

german language nouns are capitalized. i forget now if she was born is

germany or vienna but in either case she fled the germans during wwii, so in

protest to the nazis she starting writing mostly in lower caps, including her

name.

enjoy, attila

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 18:13:12 -0600

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: John Mitchell <mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>

Subject: Truth OTR

OTR (Signet, p. 128): "Then we turned to feats of athletic prowess. Dean

completely amazed me. He had Ed [Dunkel] and me hold a bar of iron up to

our waists, and just standing there hopped right over it, holding his

heels. 'Go ahead, raise it.' We kept raising it till it was chest-high.

Still he jumped over it with ease. Then he tried the running broad jump

and did at least twenty feet and more. Then I raced him down the road. I

can do the hundred in 10:5. He passed me like the wind. As we ran I had a

mad vision of Dean running through all of life just like that--his bony

face outthrust to life, his arms pumping, his brow sweating, his legs

twinkling like Groucho Marx, yelling, 'Yes! Yes! man, you sure can go!'

But nobody could go as fast as he could, and that is the truth."

Real, literal question: It is true that Neal could jump over an iron bar

held chest high (or even waist high), presumably from just standing there,

holding his heels?

Rhetorical questions: Or is this fabled leap a literary truth (hyperbole)

in the Am. tradition of tall tales? And if so, how do we tell the

difference between truth and literary truth when it comes to literary and

legal issues related to Jack and his actual and imaginary life and estate?

<There must be some way outta here, sd the Joker to the Thief. There's too

much confusion [a virtual thread in OTR], I cain't get no relief.>

John M.

Imaginary Estate Agent

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 18:01:07 -0600

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

Subject: Re: fudge wont budge : exquisite corpse (helped myself, sorry)

In-Reply-To: <199705192150.OAA08756@calvin.usc.edu>

> >> >so the steering column spins

> >twisting the wheels spitting the spray splash from the streets

one hand on the wheel and the bottle, windows fogged with

half conscious woman yelping

" i'm scanning for the bird wearing a hat of fudge" in a slur of

words&booze

"pack it sez the bird

but the fudge

won't budge," she laughs to herself;

> >being quite comfortable with the flock

> >> >: a Pakistan screms in the bed!

> >> >: the hearth is lost,

> >> >: my god, we're u?

> >> w/the f.o.'s singing

> >> god is

> >never quite

> >> dead

> >just sleeping, snoring and

> >schleping

> >> >: >forever blunder(ing) with the cocktails and napkins at the bar

ogling the waitress, pushing himself on the women next to him, harrassing

the bartender,

> >> >: >salvaging

> >> >: >f o r g e t.me nots

for his lapel

> > the blue: a massage then a

> >> deeper massage :

> "don't f o r g e t.to put out the cat" he moans absentmindedly, as the

bed vibrates

magic

fingers

> >> >: >: "this white

> >> >: >: sky blur

> >> >: >: myself"

> >> >: >: > Truth is an unconscious entity.

> >but arent we all?

> >Frank Sinatra as god the spent star sleeping w/head resting on the bar,

> hands limply at sides, mouth open

having been

passed out since the rise of plastic somewhere in Massachusetts

> >> ghosts of Dean & Sammy order out for

> >> pizza

> >> the check's in the mail.

> the music begins & they take the stage

once again.

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 21:08:21 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Jeanne Vaccaro <SlugBug747@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Looking for quote

Oh gee, I knew exactly which quote you were speaking of .... particularly

because everyone at my school feels the need to quote it in their year book

half pages...

it's funny, i go to this college prep school (Horace Mann, NY)...infamous

obviously for Jack and WCW (Ginsberg read their in in 1980). Well anyway,

these people are so ... exactly alike one another. They dress the same, talk

the same, I swear they feel the same... they all qoute this one qoute, as if

that made them experts of JK or any of his work. I bet they haven't even read

On The Road, rather got it out of one of these "Portable Quotations" books.

The ironic part is that

because

> the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad

> to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones

> who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, burn like

> fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars . .

> ."

well they don't want mad people, or they don't act like it... they wasnt

everyone to be the same...makes me crazy...

Sorry, I had to get that out of my system....

Ciao, Jeanne

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 22:04:49 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Jeff Durand <LCKerouac@AOL.COM>

Subject: Fwd: 9th ANNUAL JACK KEROUAC LITERARY PRIZE

---------------------

Forwarded message:

Subj: 9th ANNUAL JACK KEROUAC LITERARY PRIZE

Date: 97-05-19 13:47:51 EDT

From: BeatRyder

To: LCKerouac

Experienced and emerging writers are invited to submit written works in

competition for the 9th

Annual Jack Kerouac Literary Prize. This Prize will consist of a $500

honorarium and the

invitation to present the prize manuscript at a public reading during the

annual Lowell Celebrates

Kerouac! Festival to be held in Lowell, Massachusetts from October 1 through

October 5, 1997.

SUBMISSIONS MUST MEET THE FOLLOWING CRITERIA:

1. All works must be in English and not previously published. One winner of

the

Literary Prize will be chosen. A number of entries, at the discretion of the

judge,

may be awarded Honorable Mention.

2. Submissions will be accepted between March 1, 1997 and August 1, 1997.

Deadline for all entries is August 1, 1997.

3. The author's name must not appear anywhere on the manuscript.

4. Submissions must be accompanied by a 3x5 card containing the author's

name,

address, telephone number, and manuscript title.

5. Authors retain all rights and priveleges to their work, including

copywrite, but

manuscripts will not be returned.

6. There is a $5.00 administrative fee for each manuscript entry. Please make

checks payable to Lowell Celebrates Kerouac!

7. Submissions must meet the following format requirements:

Fiction:

a. Submit one, typed, double-spaced copy of your manuscript;

b. your entry must not exceed thirty (30) pages excerpted from a novel, or a

maximum of three (3) short stories with a combined length of thirty (30)

pages or

less.

Poetry:

a. submit one, typed copy of your manuscript;

b. each copy is to include a maximum of eight (8) poems with a combined

length

of fifteen (15) pages or less; your entry must not exceed fifteen (15) pages.

Non-fiction:

a. submit one typed, double-spaced copy of your manuscript;

b. your entry must not exceed thirty (30) pages excerpted from a volume, or a

maximum of three (3) essays with a combined length of thirty (30) pages or

less.

8. Please submit manuscripts to:

The Jack Kerouac Literary Prize

P.O. Box 8788

Lowell, MA 01953-8788

9. Authors will receive notification of the prize winner in September of

1997.

The Jack Kerouac Literary Prize is sponsored by Middlesex Community College,

the

University of Massachusetts at Lowell, Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! (a

non-profit

organization), and the Estate of Jack and Stella (Sampas) Kerouac.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 06:51:38 +0200

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Ksenija Simic <ksenija@GALOIS.MI.SANU.AC.YU>

Subject: Re: Truth OTR

In-Reply-To: <l03020901afa6966f9f87@[141.224.144.84]> from "John Mitchell" at

May 19, 97 06:13:12 pm

Hi, I'm somewhat new on the list; been reading your discussions for a few

days. Just like everybody here I am a believer in the divinity named Jack

Kerouac. He can make me cry and he can make me cry. I had to jump in because

all of the talk about truth and reality. So: WHO CARES WHETHER SOMETHING IS

TRUE OR NOT! There can't be only one truth. And if you felt really mighty

and strong because Neal could do whatever he wanted when you read this

paragraph, and if you felt that you can do the same, I don't think that it

makes any difference whether it was true or not.

Thank you.

> Real, literal question: It is true that Neal could jump over an iron bar

> held chest high (or even waist high), presumably from just standing there,

> holding his heels?

> Rhetorical questions: Or is this fabled leap a literary truth (hyperbole)

> in the Am. tradition of tall tales? And if so, how do we tell the

> difference between truth and literary truth when it comes to literary and

> legal issues related to Jack and his actual and imaginary life and estate?

> <There must be some way outta here, sd the Joker to the Thief. There's too

> much confusion [a virtual thread in OTR], I cain't get no relief.>

> John M.

> Imaginary Estate Agent

PS. What is a literary truth anyhow?

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 09:55:42 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject: Re: "a baneful influence"

In-Reply-To: <696D3146231@mozart.fpa.odu.edu>

mean people suck.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 07:03:48 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Comments: To: "a baneful influence"@cruzio.com

Marie Countryman wrote:

> mean people suck.

> mc

> .-

Been hectic for me with only time for an occasional glance at the list,

over my shoulder at times,hee heh, but sure am glad i stopped for a

second to see Marie is back!

Hey Gerry, you left out the nice things I also said about your heart

spilling out in our midst. Not that I want to fan the coals.

leon

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 10:35:04 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "Dean M. Palmer" <dean_palmer@JUNO.COM>

Subject: Cassady Question....

I have "Holy Goof"and "Off The Road"...What other good Cassady

Biographies are there?

Dean Palmer

/\/\/\/\/\~Dean_Palmer@juno.com~/\/\/\/\/\

/\/\/\/\/\~Funny English Joke; man and wife in living room, phone rings,

man answers and says he wouldn't know, better call the coast guard, and

hangs up, wife says, "Who was it, dear?" and man says, "I don't know,

some damn fool who

wanted to know if the coast was clear." har-har-har (Neal

Cassady)~/\/\/\/\/\

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 10:49:28 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Clay Vaughan <CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>

Subject: Re: Cassady Question....

There are two volumes of letters...

GRACE BEATS KARMA (letters from prison)

AS EVER (letters b/n Ginsberg & Cassady)

and another book I've only heard of in passing, though I've never

seen it:

FRIENDLY AND FLOWING SAVAGE: THE LITERARY LEGEND OF NEAL CASSADY, by

Gregory Stephenson.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 12:01:25 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject: Re: fudge wont budge : exquisite corpse (helped myself, sorry)

In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.93.970519175316.32600A-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>

>> >> >so the steering column spins

>> >twisting the wheels spitting the spray splash from the streets

>one hand on the wheel and the bottle, windows fogged with

>half conscious woman yelping

>" i'm scanning for the bird wearing a hat of fudge" in a slur of

>words&booze

>"pack it sez the bird

> but the fudge

> won't budge," she laughs to herself;

>> >being quite comfortable with the flock

>> >> >: a Pakistan screms in the bed!

>> >> >: the hearth is lost,

>> >> >: my god, we're u?

>> >> w/the f.o.'s singing

>> >> god is

>> >never quite

>> >> dead

>> >just sleeping, snoring and

>> >schleping

>> >> >: >forever blunder(ing) with the cocktails and napkins at the bar

>ogling the waitress, pushing himself on the women next to him, harrassing

>the bartender,

>> >> >: >salvaging

>> >> >: >f o r g e t.me nots

>for his lapel

>> > the blue: a massage then a

>> >> deeper massage :

>> "don't f o r g e t.to put out the cat" he moans absentmindedly, as the

>bed vibrates

>magic

>fingers

>> >> >: >: "this white

>> >> >: >: sky blur

>> >> >: >: myself"

>> >> >: >: > Truth is an unconscious entity.

>> >but arent we all?

>> >Frank Sinatra as god the spent star sleeping w/head resting on the bar,

>> hands limply at sides, mouth open

> having been

>passed out since the rise of plastic somewhere in Massachusetts

>> >> ghosts of Dean & Sammy order out for

>> >> pizza

>> >> the check's in the mail.

>> the music begins & they take the stage

> once again.

once again

elvis has left the building,

hounded

"you aint nuthin but-a"

holy elvis speaks to me

virginia woolf hands to me

the selfsame rock

still dripping from the thames..

and off the off-beaten paths

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 12:01:48 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Cassady Question....

The Friendly and Flowing Savage book about Cassady by Gregory Stephenson was

published in 1987. It was issued as a stapled book by Textile Bridge Press

(now out of print; TBP defunct)

The entire text of FFS was included in Stephenson's great book, "The Daybreak

Boys": Essays on the literature of theBeat Generation. Hardcover 1990.

For more info, email me -

Thanks -

Jeffrey

Water Row Books

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 12:22:53 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject: pome/thought to ponder of the day

In-Reply-To: <6A9CEB71368@mozart.fpa.odu.edu>

yeats, "responsibilities" 1914:

141

A Coat

i made my song a coat

covered with embroideries

out of old mythologies

from heel to throat;

but the fools caught it,

wore it in the world's eyes

as though they'd wrought it.

song, let them take it,

for there's more enterprise

in walking naked

____________

why does mc use so much lower case? because it's there.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 12:26:03 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "Dean M. Palmer" <dean_palmer@JUNO.COM>

Subject: Re: Cassady Question....

Thanks to Clay Vaughan and Jeffrey Weinberg for answering my letter.

Dean Palmer

/\/\/\/\/\~Dean_Palmer@juno.com~/\/\/\/\/\

/\/\/\/\/\~Funny English Joke; man and wife in living room, phone rings,

man answers and says he wouldn't know, better call the coast guard, and

hangs up, wife says, "Who was it, dear?" and man says, "I don't know,

some damn fool who

wanted to know if the coast was clear." har-har-har (Neal

Cassady)~/\/\/\/\/\

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 12:14:21 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "Lisa M. Rabey" <lisar@NET-LINK.NET>

Subject: Re: "a baneful influence"

In-Reply-To: <l03020909afa7163d9151@[206.25.67.128]>

At 09:55 AM 5/20/97 -0400, you wrote:

>mean people suck.

>mc

but nice people swallow ;)

ttfn.

Lisa

Lisa M. Rabey

Internet and Computer Consultant

San Francisco, California

http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye

**************************************

General man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 15:44:51 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Truth OTR

In a message dated 97-05-19 22:31:56 EDT, you write:

<< It is true that Neal could jump over an iron bar

held chest high (or even waist high), presumably from just standing there,

holding his heels? Rhetorical questions: Or is this fabled leap a

literary truth (hyperbole) in the Am. tradition of tall tales? >>

I think it is in the tradition of tall jumps.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 15:44:52 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Truth OTR

In a message dated 97-05-20 03:32:14 EDT, you write:

<< Just like everybody here I am a believer in the divinity named Jack

Kerouac. He can make me cry and he can make me cry. I had to jump in because

all of the talk about truth and reality. So: WHO CARES WHETHER SOMETHING IS

TRUE OR NOT! There can't be only one truth. >>

Are you a true believer in the divinity of Kerouac? Did you really cry? Do

you care if it's true of not?

THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUTH.

But the truth may be that there is more then one truth.

Unless the truth is that there is only one truth.

non-believer of truth unless it's true

Attila

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 14:53:07 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Mick Parsons <mparsons@BIGBOY.NETCRAFTERS.COM>

Subject: Re: pome/thought to ponder of the day

In-Reply-To: <l03020905afa7371f4b42@[206.25.67.110]>

hey marie...

thanx for the pome... it made my day...

by the by, welcome back... you were missed

mick

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I know the passionate lover of fine style exposes himself to the hatred

of the masses; but no respect for humanity, no false modesty, no

conspiracy, no universal suffrage will ever force me to speak the

unspeakable jargon of the age, or to confuse ink with virtue."

Mick Parsons -Baudelaire

mparsons@netcrafters.com

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 21:33:12 +0100

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Olly Ruff <or205@HERMES.CAM.AC.UK>

Subject: Re: fudge wont budge : helped myself too ; more apologies.

In-Reply-To: <l03020902afa72fb58d50@[206.25.67.128]>

> >> >> >so the steering column spins

> >> >twisting the wheels spitting the spray splash from the streets

> >one hand on the wheel and the bottle, windows fogged with

> >half conscious woman yelping

> >" i'm scanning for the bird wearing a hat of fudge" in a slur of

> >words&booze

> >"pack it sez the bird

> > but the fudge

> > won't budge," she laughs to herself;

> >> >being quite comfortable with the flock

> >> >> >: a Pakistan screms in the bed!

> >> >> >: the hearth is lost,

> >> >> >: my god, we're u?

> >> >> w/the f.o.'s singing

> >> >> god is

> >> >never quite

> >> >> dead

> >> >just sleeping, snoring and

> >> >schleping

> >> >> >: >forever blunder(ing) with the cocktails and napkins at the bar

> >ogling the waitress, pushing himself on the women next to him, harrassing

> >the bartender,

> >> >> >: >salvaging

> >> >> >: >f o r g e t.me nots

> >for his lapel

> >> > the blue: a massage then a

> >> >> deeper massage :

> >> "don't f o r g e t.to put out the cat" he moans absentmindedly, as the

> >bed vibrates

> >magic

> >fingers

> >> >> >: >: "this white

> >> >> >: >: sky blur

> >> >> >: >: myself"

> >> >> >: >: > Truth is an unconscious entity.

> >> >but arent we all?

> >> >Frank Sinatra as god the spent star sleeping w/head resting on the bar,

> >> hands limply at sides, mouth open

> > having been

> >passed out since the rise of plastic somewhere in Massachusetts

> >> >> ghosts of Dean & Sammy order out for

> >> >> pizza

> >> >> the check's in the mail.

> >>

> >> the music begins & they take the stage

> > once again.

> once again

> elvis has left the building,

> hounded

> "you aint nuthin but-a"

> holy elvis speaks to me

> virginia woolf hands to me

> the selfsame rock

> still dripping from the thames..

> and off the off-beaten paths

-but for once the rain stops

because altho'

i have rust under my fingernails,

elvis is rapidly running out of buildings

the checks don't even bounce very high

and i can no longer tell whether I am overweight

or otherwise

because despite

rattletrap due rent

peeling carapace from

crick neck staring at

high tide marks

lost dog of an old

city

because despite : we have been around

been about to hear the right stories

the right people ; electric current.

faraway lights.

we have at least learned mythology.

so nothing new, just prosaic :

I'll meet you in the botanical gardens,

and it'll be just the same as always ;

what is more, if it's not

we have at least learned how to pretend.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 14:43:17 -0600

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

Subject: Re: fudge wont budge : exquisite corpse (helped myself, sorry)

In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.93.970519175316.32600A-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>

concerning all this "fudge wont budge" stuff:

i am considering publishing a chapbook. would anyone mind if i included

this poem? (as well as "On the work of burroughs")

could those who participated - and continue as well - please contact me

if you have any complaints, and to pipe up with yr names (marie, rinaldo,

olly, and others...) etc...

thanks a bundle

yrs

derek

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 16:09:20 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

In-Reply-To: <3381AF44.1F8CFB9D@cruzio.com>

05-20-97 leon wrote:

>Hey Gerry, you left out the nice things I also said about your heart

>spilling out in our midst.

>leon

leon,

That thought is one I'd appreciate seeing in context. Care to share it?

j grant

BE ON THE WATCH

for items stolen from the Keroauc Collection

O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell

http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html

Academic & Small Press Authors & publishers

display books free at

<http://www.bookzen.com>

302,443 visitors since July 1, 1996

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 16:28:28 -0500

Reply-To: race@midusa.net

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject: Re: fudge wont budge : helped myself too ; more apologies.

Olly Ruff wrote:

> > >> >> >so the steering column spins

> > >> >twisting the wheels spitting the spray splash from the streets

> > >one hand on the wheel and the bottle, windows fogged with

> > >half conscious woman yelping

> > >" i'm scanning for the bird wearing a hat of fudge" in a slur of

> > >words&booze

> > >"pack it sez the bird

> > > but the fudge

> > > won't budge," she laughs to herself;

> > >> >being quite comfortable with the flock

> > >> >> >: a Pakistan screms in the bed!

> > >> >> >: the hearth is lost,

> > >> >> >: my god, we're u?

> > >> >> w/the f.o.'s singing

> > >> >> god is

> > >> >never quite

> > >> >> dead

> > >> >just sleeping, snoring and

> > >> >schleping

> > >> >> >: >forever blunder(ing) with the cocktails and napkins at the bar

> > >ogling the waitress, pushing himself on the women next to him, harrassing

> > >the bartender,

> > >> >> >: >salvaging

> > >> >> >: >f o r g e t.me nots

> > >for his lapel

> > >> > the blue: a massage then a

> > >> >> deeper massage :

> > >> "don't f o r g e t.to put out the cat" he moans absentmindedly, as the

> > >bed vibrates

> > >magic

> > >fingers

> > >> >> >: >: "this white

> > >> >> >: >: sky blur

> > >> >> >: >: myself"

> > >> >> >: >: > Truth is an unconscious entity.

> > >> >but arent we all?

> > >> >Frank Sinatra as god the spent star sleeping w/head resting on the bar,

> > >> hands limply at sides, mouth open

> > > having been

> > >passed out since the rise of plastic somewhere in Massachusetts

> > >> >> ghosts of Dean & Sammy order out for

> > >> >> pizza

> > >> >> the check's in the mail.

> > >>

> > >> the music begins & they take the stage

> > > once again.

> >

> > once again

> > elvis has left the building,

> > hounded

> > "you aint nuthin but-a"

> > holy elvis speaks to me

> > virginia woolf hands to me

> > the selfsame rock

> > still dripping from the thames..

> > and off the off-beaten paths

> >

> -but for once the rain stops

> because altho'

> i have rust under my fingernails,

> elvis is rapidly running out of buildings

> the checks don't even bounce very high

> and i can no longer tell whether I am overweight

> or otherwise

> because despite

> rattletrap due rent

> peeling carapace from

> crick neck staring at

> high tide marks

> lost dog of an old

> city

> because despite : we have been around

> been about to hear the right stories

> the right people ; electric current from

my brain to yrs.

> faraway lights.

> we have at least learned mythology.

> so nothing new, just prosaic :

> I'll meet you in the botanical gardens,

> and it'll be just the same as always ;

> what is more, if it's not

> we have at least learned how to pretend.

and we pretend this mythology

through every backward

county road

and dust-bowl picnic ground

on the map

from Taos to the shores of Maine

and the rain is the

same everywhere

whether pretense or not ...

it is WET !

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 16:50:47 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Ron Guest <rguest@SUNSET.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU>

Subject: Where is Gerry Nicosia?

Where is Gerry Nicosia?? I noticed a couple of beat-ls have baited him a

little, but no reply. This guy can't be gone. Wheather he was right or

wrong, he got us fired up..people were name calling, demeaning, caring,

hateful,inspiring, thoughtful, asinine, pouring their hearts out, speaking

in tongues. I mean, this guy made people go nuts. Gerry, we need a little

spark here.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 15:44:14 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: James William Marshall <iamio@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET>

Subject: Re: My introduction

Hi Natalie from Kansas,

Thanks for the greetin'. To be honest, I don't know where I'm from.

My mother tells me that I came from her womb and before that a combination

of one of her eggs and one of my father's sperm. But before that your guess

is as good as mine.

I currently reside in British Columbia, Canada, or at least that's what

the signs seem to suggest. I'm skeptical.

James M.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 17:19:48 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: MARK NIGON <Mark_Nigon@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM>

Subject: Re: fudge wont budge : helped myself too ; more apologies. -Reply

Comments: To: race@midusa.net

>>> RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET> 05/20/97 04:28pm >>>

Olly Ruff wrote:

> > >> >> >so the steering column spins

> > >> >twisting the wheels spitting the spray splash from the streets

> > >one hand on the wheel and the bottle, windows fogged with

> > >half conscious woman yelping

> > >" i'm scanning for the bird wearing a hat of fudge" in a slur of

> > >words&booze

> > >"pack it sez the bird

> > > but the fudge

> > > won't budge," she laughs to herself;

> > >> >being quite comfortable with the flock

> > >> >> >: a Pakistan screms in the bed!

> > >> >> >: the hearth is lost,

> > >> >> >: my god, we're u?

> > >> >> w/the f.o.'s singing

> > >> >> god is

> > >> >never quite

> > >> >> dead

> > >> >just sleeping, snoring and

> > >> >schleping

> > >> >> >: >forever blunder(ing) with the cocktails and napkins at the

bar

> > >ogling the waitress, pushing himself on the women next to him,

harrassing

> > >the bartender,

> > >> >> >: >salvaging

> > >> >> >: >f o r g e t.me nots

> > >for his lapel

> > >> > the blue: a massage then a

> > >> >> deeper massage :

> > >> "don't f o r g e t.to put out the cat" he moans absentmindedly,

as the

> > >bed vibrates

> > >magic

> > >fingers

> > >> >> >: >: "this white

> > >> >> >: >: sky blur

> > >> >> >: >: myself"

> > >> >> >: >: > Truth is an unconscious entity.

> > >> >but arent we all?

> > >> >Frank Sinatra as god the spent star sleeping w/head resting on

the bar,

> > >> hands limply at sides, mouth open

> > > having been

> > >passed out since the rise of plastic somewhere in Massachusetts

> > >> >> ghosts of Dean & Sammy order out for

> > >> >> pizza

> > >> >> the check's in the mail.

> > >>

> > >> the music begins & they take the stage

> > > once again.

> >

> > once again

> > elvis has left the building,

> > hounded

> > "you aint nuthin but-a"

> > holy elvis speaks to me

> > virginia woolf hands to me

> > the selfsame rock

> > still dripping from the thames..

> > and off the off-beaten paths

> >

> -but for once the rain stops

> because altho'

> i have rust under my fingernails,

> elvis is rapidly running out of buildings

> the checks don't even bounce very high

> and i can no longer tell whether I am overweight

> or otherwise

> because despite

> rattletrap due rent

> peeling carapace from

> crick neck staring at

> high tide marks

> lost dog of an old

> city

> because despite : we have been around

> been about to hear the right stories

> the right people ; electric current from

my brain to yrs.

> faraway lights.

> we have at least learned mythology.

> so nothing new, just prosaic :

> I'll meet you in the botanical gardens,

> and it'll be just the same as always ;

> what is more, if it's not

> we have at least learned how to pretend.

and we pretend this mythology

through every backward

county road

and dust-bowl picnic ground

on the map

from Taos to the shores of Maine

and the rain is the

same everywhere

whether pretense or not ...

it is WET !

Like the the fingers in my face,

driping with the rain off the windshield.

And curbs blur by in blue/black

with time bending and laughter

and booze; "There was one?!"

She says. "What?" Says I,

as my eyes bend upward to

the gray clouds and I think of

old war documentaries.

I've forgotten in the midst of the

music, memories and cigarette smoke

why I'm out tonight.

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 00:51:34 +0200

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject: Re: fudge wont budge : helped myself too ; more apologies.

In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.95q.970520211752.18928A-100000@blue.csi.cam.ac. uk>

>> >> >> >so the steering column spins

>> >> >twisting the wheels spitting the spray splash from the streets

>> >one hand on the wheel and the bottle, windows fogged with

>> >half conscious woman yelping

>> >" i'm scanning for the bird wearing a hat of fudge" in a slur of

>> >words&booze

>> >"pack it sez the bird

>> > but the fudge

>> > won't budge," she laughs to herself;

>> >> >being quite comfortable with the flock

>> >> >> >: a Pakistan screms in the bed!

>> >> >> >: the hearth is lost,

>> >> >> >: my god, we're u?

>> >> >> w/the f.o.'s singing

>> >> >> god is

>> >> >never quite

>> >> >> dead

>> >> >just sleeping, snoring and

>> >> >schleping

>> >> >> >: >forever blunder(ing) with the cocktails and napkins at the bar

>> >ogling the waitress, pushing himself on the women next to him, harrassing

>> >the bartender,

>> >> >> >: >salvaging

>> >> >> >: >f o r g e t.me nots

>> >for his lapel

>> >> > the blue: a massage then a

>> >> >> deeper massage :

>> >> "don't f o r g e t.to put out the cat" he moans absentmindedly, as the

>> >bed vibrates

>> >magic

>> >fingers

>> >> >> >: >: "this white

>> >> >> >: >: sky blur

>> >> >> >: >: myself"

>> >> >> >: >: > Truth is an unconscious entity.

>> >> >but arent we all?

>> >> >Frank Sinatra as god the spent star sleeping w/head resting on the bar,

>> >> hands limply at sides, mouth open

>> > having been

>> >passed out since the rise of plastic somewhere in Massachusetts

>> >> >> ghosts of Dean & Sammy order out for

>> >> >> pizza

>> >> >> the check's in the mail.

>> >>

>> >> the music begins & they take the stage

>> > once again.

>> once again

>> elvis has left the building,

>> hounded

>> "you aint nuthin but-a"

>> holy elvis speaks to me

>> virginia woolf hands to me

>> the selfsame rock

>> still dripping from the thames..

>> and off the off-beaten paths

>-but for once the rain stops

> because altho'

> i have rust under my fingernails,

> elvis is rapidly running out of buildings

> the checks don't even bounce very high

> and i can no longer tell whether I am overweight

> or otherwise

> because despite

> rattletrap due rent

> peeling carapace from

> crick neck staring at

> high tide marks

> lost dog of an old

> city

> because despite : we have been around

> been about to hear the right stories

> the right people ; electric current.

> faraway lights.

> we have at least learned mythology.

> so nothing new, just prosaic :

> I'll meet you in the botanical gardens,

> and it'll be just the same as always ;

> what is more, if it's not

> we have at least learned how to pretend.

I'M WALKIN'

i am walking

the man has

with him a shopping bag

i am walking i am walking

he crunched the apple

the man has crunched the apple

i'm walkin' i'm walkin' SIR my soul is blur

MY SOUL IS BLUR sir GOD god of the dream

i'm walkin' i'm walkin' SIR my soul is blur

give me a dream SIR do asleep myself

i'm walkin' i'm walkin'

i am walking through corners of dream

corners of dream

i have not hide for myself behind corners in a dream

mother

i'm walkin'

father

i'm walkin'

brother

i'm walkin'

sister

i'm walkin'

take a lunch with your brother-- says still the mother

mother my brother is dead you know! u know!

take a lunch, rinaldo!-- says still my mother

yes mother

these shining corners

in the dream

they tears

the man has crunched the apple

i'm walkin'

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 20:10:49 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Marie Countryman <country@SOVER.NET>

Subject: Re: fudge wont budge : exquisite corpse (helped myself, sorry)

In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.93.970520144107.24616C-100000@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>

>concerning all this "fudge wont budge" stuff:

>i am considering publishing a chapbook. would anyone mind if i included

>this poem? (as well as "On the work of burroughs")

>could those who participated - and continue as well - please contact me

>if you have any complaints, and to pipe up with yr names (marie, rinaldo,

>olly, and others...) etc...

>thanks a bundle

>yrs

>derek

____________

make it so, insp d!

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 01:40:13 +0100

Reply-To: or205@hermes.cam.ac.uk

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Olly Ruff <or205@HERMES.CAM.AC.UK>

Subject: Re: fudge wont budge

Comments: To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

In-Reply-To: <3382177C.5DC3@midusa.net>

On Tue, 20 May 1997, RACE --- wrote:

> Olly Ruff wrote:

> >

> > > >> >> >so the steering column spins

> > > >> >twisting the wheels spitting the spray splash from the streets

> > one hand on the wheel and the bottle, windows fogged with

> > > >half conscious woman yelping

> > > > " i'm scanning for the bird wearing a hat of fudge" in a slur of

> > > > words&booze

> > > "pack it sez the bird

> > > > but the fudge

> > > > won't budge," she laughs to herself;

> > >being quite comfortable with the flock

> > > >> > : a Pakistan screms in the bed!

> > > >> : the hearth is lost,

> > > >> > : my god, we're u?

> > > >> >> w/the f.o.'s singing

> > > >> >> god is

> > > >> > never quite

> > > >> >> dead

> > > >> > - just sleeping, snoring and

> > > >> >schleping

> > > >> >> >: >forever blunder(ing) with the cocktails and napkins at the bar

> > > >ogling the waitress, pushing himself on the women next to him, harrassing

> > > >the bartender,

> > > >> >> >: >salvaging

> > > >> >> >: >f o r g e t.me nots

> > > >for his lapel

> > > >> > the blue: a massage then a

> > > >> >> deeper massage :

> > > >> "don't f o r g e t.to put out the cat" he moans absentmindedly, as the

> > > >bed vibrates

> > > >magic

> > > >fingers

> > > >> >> >: >: "this white

> > > >> >> >: >: sky blur

> > > >> >> >: >: myself"

> > > >> >> >: >: > Truth is an unconscious entity.

> > > >> but arent we all?

> > > >> >Frank Sinatra as god the spent star sleeping w/head resting on the

bar,

> > > >> hands limply at sides, mouth open

> > > > having been

> > > >passed out since the rise of plastic somewhere in Massachusetts

> > > >> >> ghosts of Dean & Sammy order out for

> > > >> >> pizza

> > > >> >> the check's in the mail.

> > > >>

> > > >> the music begins & they take the stage

> > > > once again.

> > >

> > > once again

> > > elvis has left the building,

> > > hounded

> > > "you aint nuthin but-a"

> > > holy elvis speaks to me

> > > virginia woolf hands to me

> > > the selfsame rock

> > > still dripping from the thames..

> > > and off the off-beaten paths

> > >

> >-but for once the rain stops

> > because altho'

> > i have rust under my fingernails,

> > elvis is rapidly running out of buildings

> > the checks don't even bounce very high

> > and i can no longer tell whether I am overweight

> > or otherwise

> > because despite

> > rattletrap due rent

> > peeling carapace from

> > crick neck staring at

> > high tide marks

> > lost dog of an old

> > city

> >

> > because despite : we have been around

> > been about to hear the right stories

> > the right people ; electric current from

> my brain to yrs.

> > faraway lights.

> > we have at least learned mythology.

> >

> > so nothing new, just prosaic :

> > I'll meet you in the botanical gardens,

> > and it'll be just the same as always ;

> > what is more, if it's not

> > we have at least learned how to pretend.

> and we pretend this mythology

> through every backward

> county road

> and dust-bowl picnic ground

> on the map

> from Taos to the shores of Maine

> and the rain is the

> same everywhere

> whether pretense or not ...

> it is WET !

but tonight of all nights i can't feel it.

it's harder to pretend things contrary

to the Evidence

(backed up with several thou' years)

- but then i'm a talent...

... & i'm back with Sinatra & steering columns,

spray splash waitress white blur

hearth dust bowl check stage mail

a dead man marking time...

salvage ; may as well pick flowers out of the split kerb

there's no choice to be made it's

a spent coin over a crossed line.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 19:56:44 -0500

Reply-To: race@midusa.net

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject: why all the backchannel????

folks keep sending me backchannels of the exploding poem along with

sending them to the Beat-L and i don't understand why ...

back to the NBA

david rhaesa

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 18:05:33 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "s.a. griffin" <perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>

Subject: Re: "a baneful influence"

At 12:14 PM 5/20/97 -0700, you wrote:

>At 09:55 AM 5/20/97 -0400, you wrote:

>>mean people suck.

>>mc

>but nice people swallow ;)

>ttfn.

>Lisa

>--

>Lisa M. Rabey

>Internet and Computer Consultant

>San Francisco, California

>http://the.art.of.sekurity.org/simunye

>**************************************

>General man-hating bitchy "i know more than you" chick.

praise the nice people. if you want good head, give only the best!

xxxooo

s.a.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 18:56:45 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "s.a. griffin" <perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>

Subject: Re: fudge wont budge

At 01:40 AM 5/21/97 +0100, you wrote:

>On Tue, 20 May 1997, RACE --- wrote:

>> Olly Ruff wrote:

>> >

>> > > >> >> >so the steering column spins

>> > > >> >twisting the wheels spitting the spray splash from the streets

>> > one hand on the wheel and the bottle, windows fogged with

>> > > >half conscious woman yelping

>> > > > " i'm scanning for the bird wearing a hat of fudge" in a slur of

>> > > > words&booze

>> > > "pack it sez the bird

>> > > > but the fudge

>> > > > won't budge," she laughs to herself;

>> > >being quite comfortable with the flock

>> > > >> > : a Pakistan screams in the bed!

>> > > >> : the hearth is lost,

>> > > >> > : my god, we're u?

>> > > >> >> w/the f.o.'s singing

>> > > >> >> god is

>> > > >> > never quite

>> > > >> >> dead but gives the most

delicious head however at the moment

>> > > >> > - just sleeping, snoring and

>> > > >> >schleping

>> > > >> >> >: >forever blunder(ing) with the cocktails and napkins at the bar

>> > > >ogling the waitress, pushing himself onto the women next to him,

harrassing

>> > > >the bartender,

>> > > >> >> >: >salvaging

>> > > >> >> >: >f o r g e t.me nots

>> > > >for his lapel

>> > > >> > the blue music of a past life comes up on the juke box

: a massage then a

>> > > >> >> deeper massage :

>> > > >> "don't f o r g e t.to put out the cat" the court jester

moans absentmindedly, as the

>> > > >bed vibrates

>> > > >magic

>> > > >fingers up & down the spine

>> > > >> >> >: >: "this white

>> > > >> >> >: >: sky blur

>> > > >> >> >: >: myself"

>> > > >> >> >: >: > Truth is an unconscious entity.

>> > > >> but arent we all mad?

>> > > >> >Frank Sinatra as god the spent rock star sleeping w/head resting

on the

> bar,

>> > > >> hands limply at sides, mouth open

>> > > > having been

>> > > >passed out since the rise of plastic somewhere in Massachusetts

>> > > >> >> ghosts of Dean & Sammy order out for

>> > > >> >> pizza

>> > > >> >> the check's in the mail.

tired of watching Hee Haw reruns on the cable t.v.

Elvis shoots the television with his hunk of burning love gun

The King has been to see his main man Dr. Nick Feelgood

Big E feels tall & small at the same time

as he

unhitches his lip from the side of head

& whispers love me tender to the weeping

willow trees

swinging softly in the Memphis breeze

he kisses the toes of sweet Mercy Gotlegs

in the back seat of the his titty pink

'57 Eldorado where big bang theories are

practiced but never preached

the Colonel busy frying

dancing dixie chickens who failed to make the

grade

does a bong hit of some kickass two hit wonder weed

from way out west California way

he passes it on to slick Tricky Dick Nixon who

inhales

the beauty of everything deeply as the sky runs for

president

& slides out of control

>> > > >>

>> > > >> the music begins & they take the stage

>> > > > once again.

>> > >

>> > > once again

>> > > elvis has left the building,

>> > > hounded

>> > > "you aint nuthin but-a"

>> > > holy elvis speaks to me

>> > > virginia woolf hands to me

>> > > the selfsame rock

>> > > still dripping from the thames..

>> > > and off the off-beaten paths

>> > >

>> >-but for once the rain stops

>> > because altho'

>> > i have rust under my fingernails,

>> > elvis is rapidly running out of buildings

>> > the checks don't even bounce very high

>> > and i can no longer tell whether I am overweight

>> > or otherwise

>> > because despite

>> > rattletrap due rent

>> > peeling carapace from

>> > crick neck staring at

>> > high tide marks

>> > lost dog of an old

>> > city

>> >

>> > because despite : we have been around

>> > been about to hear the right stories

>> > the right people ; electric current from

>> my brain to yrs.

>> > faraway lights.

>> > we have at least learned mythology.

>> >

>> > so nothing new, just prosaic :

>> > I'll meet you in the botanical gardens,

>> > and it'll be just the same as always ;

>> > what is more, if it's not

>> > we have at least learned how to pretend.

>> and we pretend this mythology

>> through every backward

>> county road

>> and dust-bowl picnic ground

>> on the map

>> from Taos to the shores of Maine

>> and the rain is the

>> same everywhere

>> whether pretense or not ...

>> it is WET !

> but tonight of all nights i can't feel it.

> it's harder to pretend things contrary

> to the Evidence

> (backed up with several thou' years)

> - but then i'm a talent...

> ... & i'm back with Sinatra & steering columns,

> spray splash waitress white blur

> hearth dust bowl check stage mail

> a dead man marking time...

> salvage ; may as well pick flowers out of the split kerb

> there's no choice to be made it's

> a spent coin over a crossed line.

hey man,

I ain't gonna lie

I need money for a beer

who you gotta fuck to get outta here?

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 19:16:52 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "s.a. griffin" <perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>

Subject: Re: fudge wont budge : exquisite corpse (helped myself, sorry)

At 02:43 PM 5/20/97 -0600, you wrote:

>concerning all this "fudge wont budge" stuff:

>i am considering publishing a chapbook. would anyone mind if i included

>this poem? (as well as "On the work of burroughs")

>could those who participated - and continue as well - please contact me

>if you have any complaints, and to pipe up with yr names (marie, rinaldo,

>olly, and others...) etc...

>thanks a bundle

>yrs

>derek

I guess my name should be included since I kicked the danged thing off way

back when.I thought about publishing the burroughs/ginsberg thing at a later

date as a sort of picasso type thingy (remember the bull?) by publishing the

entire process as a book since I have the entire thing saved step by step

from the git go. hope all is well with you. did my latest alteration 'bout

half hour ago. look forward to chapbook. all the best -

xxxooo

s.a. griffin