beat list 1997

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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 09:25:31 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Subject: AG's grave??

Will there be a grave for Allen ginsberg?

If so, where?

Howard Park

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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:55:47 +0200

Reply-To: Moritz Rossbach <moro0000@stud.uni-sb.de>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Moritz Rossbach <moro0000@STUD.UNI-SB.DE>

Subject: Re: The gorror of fen koing hurthur

In-Reply-To: <v03007801af9f47910f44@[206.190.9.125]>

hi zach

cool, although this isnt much of a big story i guess it is beat as hell

and from the way you told it, i guess it has had a great philosophical

impact

on your life

--------------sincerely

moritz rossbach

saarbruecken, germany

moro0000@stud.uni-sb.de

http://stud.uni-sb.de/~moro0000----------------

..and i tell you things that you allready know, so you can say:

"i really identify with you....SO MUCH!"

-Henry Rollins: Liar

On Wed, 14 May 1997, Zach Hoon wrote:

> i've always been able to keep my finger on it in public, and i've been in

> very public places with a head full of cid: movie theaters, mini-golf

> courses, state parks, malls, grocery stores. ppl think i'm bizarre when i'm

> straight so they don't think anything of it when i'm not...the only odd

> experience i've had:

> laying on a rock high high up on a cliff in a state park with two friends,

> twisted like crazy, exchanging sunglasses because the sun looks different

> through each pair; a father with three little girls comes up and sits maybe

> 2 feet away from us. this is a secluded, somewhat dangerous rock to be on.

> these kids are hoppin up and down, the father's looking at us weird and

> taking pictures of his girls...my 2 friends freak out immediately, going

> off somewhere; i laid back and stared at the sun till the kids and dad

> left, then my friends start babbling about how fucking weird that was, so i

> went down to the lake and sat down in the water till it was just up under

> my lips, till i turned into a prune. those kids had gotten to me and it was

> a little hard to deal with, as i'd been up for four days and had a fresh 2

> hits in me, so i needed the relax time...

> i just keep in mind that everyone no matter what their state, is

> essentially human. and if you think really hard, you can feel that other

> humanity. it's the only thing i've experienced i'd actually call

> 'profound', and it's happened both sober and otherwise....

> etc etc

> zach

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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 07:20:52 -0700

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From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject: Re: Attila the Hun

May 15, 1997

Paul Maher writes:

"I don't undestand why you think you are untouchable .... I then

could not ever take issue with your work should I find a reason to without

fear of violent reprisal? ... I have one published thesis in a scholarly

journal that I am proud of but if one was to take issue with it I wouldn't

be offended."

Dear Paul,

What's been going on here is not people criticizing my work, my

interpretations of Kerouac, my literary criticism, etc. It's been ONE

PERSONAL ATTACK AFTER ANOTHER. I'm out for money and power, I'm a glory

hunter, I'm too cheap to donate to a good cause, I'm a "nut," etc. Or they

lie outright, like Attila last night claiming I have nothing to talk about

but the Kerouac lawsuit, and claiming I "demanded" to be invited to Lowell

by Lowell Celebrates Kerouac! I never even contacted Lowell Celebrates

Kerouac!--ever, in its 9 year history. The only thing I complained about,

here and in some of my writings, was the fact that THEY HAD ACTIVELY TRIED

TO STOP ME FROM COMING TO LOWELL when Brad Parker sought to have me come and

speak.

It's as bad as Martha Mayo telling the Lowell police you stole the

missing letters with not a shred of evidence to back her up. When people

keep making off-the-wall charges like that, it makes you wonder what their

game really is.

Best, Gerry Nicosia

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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 10:44:20 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Attila the Hun

In a message dated 97-05-15 00:24:37 EDT, you write:

<< Didn't you guys ever read the rules of fair fightin'? One against

one, and at least a week to recuperate. That was the rule in my old

neighborhood.

Nick the Greek

Hey Nick The Greek:

Why should we start being fair now? I'm from New York.

Attila the Hun

I never fought a fight I couldn't lose.

You can say that again.

Soitenly!

My sediments exactly.

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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 10:17:54 -0500

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From: Jeff Taylor <taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Subject: Re: something completely different [Naked Lunch in French]

In-Reply-To: <970514232850_1556996347@emout19.mail.aol.com>

On Wed, 14 May 1997, Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:

> My mother, Mary Beach and Claude Pelieu are considered the best translators

> of the Beats into French. Their translation of Bob Kaufman made him more

> famous in France than in America.

> Pam Plymell

I once saw a 1964 edition of Naked Lunch translated into French by Eric

Kahane, and when I took it home and to compare it to the English, I

discovered it had all kinds of omissions (and even a few additions!)

(There was only 1 Steely Dan, for example, instead of 3 like there is

supposed to be.) Do you know if NL has been redone in French since then?

*******

Jeff Taylor

taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

*******

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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 09:39:24 -0700

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From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject: Re: something completely different .... -Reply

>Just to pipe in here....

>I am an editor of textbooks of English as a Second/Foreign Language and one

>of the first series that I worked on for Addison Wesley was one entitled

>"New Horizons in English" and in Level 6 of that series we used an excerpt

>of "October in Railroad Earth."

>This particular series sold millions and millions of copies worldwide. So,

>just think....there's a good possiblity that someone down in Sao Paolo or

>over in Taiwan learned English by reading Kerouac! Who'd a thunk it, eh?

>Best,

>Kathleen

This would have to be for very advanced ESL students.

Most native american speakers would have trouble with this let alone a ESL

student overseas.

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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 09:41:46 -0700

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From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!

May 15, 1997

Mr. David Rhaesa wrote:

"Once again, you're lumping from point A to point Q in a

conspiratorial mode. Frankly, I don't understand WHY you feel a need to

incorporate these conspiratorial arguments into your discourse."

Dear David,

Some all-inclusive conspiracy theories are wacko--like Oliver Stone

having everyone from the mafia to the CIA to Fidel Castro conspiring to kill

Kennedy.

That doesn't mean smalltime conspiracies don't sometimes exist. The

word is in the English language for a reason.

A lot of the stuff on the Beat-List recently, a lot of the charges

against me and Jan, had to come directly from Sampas.

For example, the matter of Jan Kerouac selling her mother's warrant

for child support was not public knowledge. It was known only to Jan, me,

the dealer, and the Sampases and their lawyer, George Tobia, who purchased

it. It was never in a news story or recounted at any Kerouac event.

So how did it get up here if it wasn't fed to someone by Sampas?

Curiously yours, Gerry Nicosia

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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 12:12:17 -0500

Reply-To: race@midusa.net

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!

Gerald Nicosia wrote:

> May 15, 1997

> Mr. David Rhaesa wrote:

> "Once again, you're lumping from point A to point Q in a

> conspiratorial mode. Frankly, I don't understand WHY you feel a need to

> incorporate these conspiratorial arguments into your discourse."

> Dear David,

> Some all-inclusive conspiracy theories are wacko--like Oliver Stone

> having everyone from the mafia to the CIA to Fidel Castro conspiring to kill

> Kennedy.

> That doesn't mean smalltime conspiracies don't sometimes exist. The

> word is in the English language for a reason.

> A lot of the stuff on the Beat-List recently, a lot of the charges

> against me and Jan, had to come directly from Sampas.

> For example, the matter of Jan Kerouac selling her mother's warrant

> for child support was not public knowledge. It was known only to Jan, me,

> the dealer, and the Sampases and their lawyer, George Tobia, who purchased

> it. It was never in a news story or recounted at any Kerouac event.

> So how did it get up here if it wasn't fed to someone by Sampas?

> Curiously yours, Gerry Nicosia

i don't know how the person found out about that. i am certainly

ignorant. but it might be that Sampas just talked to some people about

what was going on in his life rather than plotted or conspired. i

imagine that you can only be certain about your knowledge that you

didn't tell the person.

but that is beside the point. even if Sampas told someone about that

subject that he "shouldn't have" (i'm not sure why he can't talk to or

have friends), it doesn't mean that every action and every point in the

chain from A to Q is conspiratorial in nature.

at any event, you have shown your true colors. i wasn't certain

before. there is a reason for your choice of the rhetorical devices and

it is that you seem to BELIEVE in your heart and soul that there is a

conspiracy afoot in this matter.

i don't understand why, even if you believe it, you choose to

incorporate it as the subtextual theme of so much of your information.

frankly, i've found Oliver Stone's notions far more compelling. i hope

for the sake of the archives that those with power on this issue are

able to read past your polluted rhetoric and make judgements on the

merits of whether or not the Kerouac archive ought become a public

treasure.

i can definitely report that i am and am in no way part of any

conspiracy in this matter relating to John Sampas.

and photocopiers are hell ....

david rhaesa

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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 10:46:54 -0700

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From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject: Re: TRIUMPH OF THE WILL

"...ten minutes of a lone cowboy waiting

in an empty trail station for the Sampas gang to show up."

--James Stauffer

Dear James:

It's been over two weeks, and I'm still waiting. My grub's done run

out, and all I've glimpsed so far are a few outriders.

(P.S. Leni Riefenstahl beats Sergio Leone any day.)

Gerhard Von Nicosia

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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 13:57:08 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Re: AG's grave??

In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 15 May 1997 09:25:31 -0400 from <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Yes, part of Allen's ashes will be buried in his father's plot in Paterson.

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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 14:17:49 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Coming soon:

The Kerouac Quarterly Vol. 1, No. 2

Featuring:

The complete list of the Kerouac Archives at The New York Public Library (8

pages worth)..

Ellis Amburn Interview about his new Kerouac bio

More on Some Of the Dharma

More on the making of Kicks Joy Darkness

A list of 10 books off of Kerouac's archival shelves

And more.....

To order...please send $5.00 (USA) $7.00 (overseas and Canada) to:

The Kerouac Quarterly

34 North Rd. #7

Chelmsford, MA.

Also can be purchased from Water Row Books E-mail me privately for more info.

Vol.1, No. 1 can be purchased from Water Row Books as well...Thanks, Regards

to all, Paul of The Kerouac Quarterly

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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 11:03:12 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!

..... you seem to BELIEVE in your heart and soul that there is a

>conspiracy afoot in this matter.....

>i don't understand why, even if you believe it, you choose to

>incorporate it as the subtextual theme of so much of your information.....

>david rhaesa

Dave, May 15, 1997

"Conspiracy" is your word of choice, not mine.

What I've said over and over is that Mr. Sampas is doing everything

he can to control the spin that is being put on his handling of the Kerouac

archive. He has personally killed at least one news story that I know of

(in the SAN FRANCISCO REVIEW OF BOOKS, attested to by publisher Don Paul).

He has even attempted to interfere in my court case with John Lash, by

objecting to the University of Texas that its archive director shouldn't

have sent an affidavit to the Albuquerque court. That is documentable, not

airy-fairy speculation. If Mr. Sampas will threaten a publisher and

interfere in another man's court case, what makes you think he won't give

his friends a few choice weapons against me here on the Beat-List?

Still curious,

Gerry

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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 14:06:00 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Re: AG's grave??

In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 15 May 1997 13:57:08 EDT from <WXGBC@CUNYVM>

Replying to my own text, I'm not exactly sure now that the location of the grav

e is in Paterson. But wherever Louis is buried, that's where you'll find 1/3 o

f Allen's ashes.

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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 14:11:13 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: K Sands Boehmer <ksbedit@SHORE.NET>

Subject: Re: something completely different .... -Reply

>>Just to pipe in here....

>>I am an editor of textbooks of English as a Second/Foreign Language and one

>>of the first series that I worked on for Addison Wesley was one entitled

>>"New Horizons in English" and in Level 6 of that series we used an excerpt

>>of "October in Railroad Earth."

>>This particular series sold millions and millions of copies worldwide. So,

>>just think....there's a good possiblity that someone down in Sao Paolo or

>>over in Taiwan learned English by reading Kerouac! Who'd a thunk it, eh?

>>Best,

>>Kathleen

>This would have to be for very advanced ESL students.

>Most native american speakers would have trouble with this let alone a ESL

>student overseas.

Note that I said that the excerpt appeared in Level 6 of a six-level course.

:-)

Level 6 books never sold as well as Level 1 (naturally).

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:18:36 +0200

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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject: The Beat experience CDROM 1995 edition

cari amici beat,

"The Red Hot Organization" has created in 1995 a

CD ROM called "THE BEAT EXPERIENCE", $39.95, i have seen

the software in a bookstore/musicstore,

this cdrom is sold by VOYAGER 1 Bridge St

Irvington NY 10533-9919, have someone listen 'bout

this cdrom,

in yr opinion it's a worth purcase, please tell me,

'cuz of i'm really a beetle (what a hot day today!,

here in italy!)

yrs Rinaldo.

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Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:36:42 +0200

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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject: Flammable

I Vagadondi del Dharma.

A Han-Sahan (who is?)

Saltato su un treno merci che partiva da Los Angeles in pieno

mezzogiorno d'una giornata di fine settembre del 1955 presi

posto su un carro aperto e mi straiai col mio sacco a spalla

sotto la testa a gambe accavallate e contemplai le nuvole mentre

correvamo a nord verso Santa Barbara. Era un treno locale

e la mia intenzione era di dormire quella notte sulla spiaggia

di Santa Barbara e salire la mattina dopo su un altro treno locale

fino a San Luis Obispo oppure su un merci espresso che

arrivava direttamente a San Francisco alle sette di sera.

All'altezza di Camarillo, dove Charlie Parker, impazzito, era stato

ricoverato e restituito alla normalita',....

ma quello che incontri but what you meet

h realmente un'esperienza? is really an experience?

Parker h rosso Parker is red

come un crepuscolo like a twilight

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 12:47:37 -0600

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From: "Derek A. Beaulieu" <dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>

Organization: Calgary Free-Net

Subject: han on rye

In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970515193642.00688c88@pop.gpnet.it>

rinaldo(beet of little vegetation)

is han-sahan anything like han-shan ("cold mountain")??

yrs

derek

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 12:13:17 PDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: Mike Pearson <digress@ELLENSBURG.COM>

Subject: Re: TRIUMPH OF THE WILL

At 10:46 AM 5/15/97 -0700, you wrote:

> "...ten minutes of a lone cowboy waiting

>in an empty trail station for the Sampas gang to show up."

> --James Stauffer

>Dear James:

> It's been over two weeks, and I'm still waiting. My grub's done run

>out, and all I've glimpsed so far are a few outriders.

Needs food?

> (P.S. Leni Riefenstahl beats Sergio Leone any day.)

> Gerhard Von Nicosia

If only the talented maker of that film, _Triumph of the Will_

had been assigned the even more "manly" project:

"The Triumph of Honest Knowledge"

(a work always in progress, and ever to be so)

- that would really be an accomplishment for 1,000 years

Such a film would have to invent new communication forms.

_Triumph of the Will_ enabled a doomed project to advance

and emphasized methods known in Machievelli's time and before.

The appeal to emotion, as in _Triumph of the Will_,

is an easy way to gain temporary hypnotic

control of an audience....but as they later

found,

what's really needed are people who can

think, and honestly discuss;

at which time the

problems often

seem to change as

they come into

better focus. The

main problem

we can solve usually

isn't "them"

but how to make the most

of what we

already have

which sometimes

means

admitting

"th

ey" too are

overlooking

the next

advance.

www.ellensburg.com/~digress

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 14:18:51 -0500

Reply-To: race@midusa.net

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!

Gerald Nicosia wrote:

> ..... you seem to BELIEVE in your heart and soul that there is a

> >conspiracy afoot in this matter.....

> >

> >i don't understand why, even if you believe it, you choose to

> >incorporate it as the subtextual theme of so much of your information.....

> >

> >david rhaesa

> >

> Dave, May 15, 1997

> "Conspiracy" is your word of choice, not mine.

> What I've said over and over is that Mr. Sampas is doing everything

> he can to control the spin that is being put on his handling of the Kerouac

> archive. He has personally killed at least one news story that I know of

> (in the SAN FRANCISCO REVIEW OF BOOKS, attested to by publisher Don Paul).

> He has even attempted to interfere in my court case with John Lash, by

> objecting to the University of Texas that its archive director shouldn't

> have sent an affidavit to the Albuquerque court. That is documentable, not

> airy-fairy speculation. If Mr. Sampas will threaten a publisher and

> interfere in another man's court case, what makes you think he won't give

> his friends a few choice weapons against me here on the Beat-List?

> Still curious,

> Gerry

you just don't get it. you really don't. can't understand it myself.

why do you throw innuendo at everything. why can't you talk straight to

some people at least some of the time.

you just don't get it. you really don't. can't understand it myself.

why does the computer happen to throw innuendo into everything you write

on the beatlist. why can't your computer talk to my computer at least

once in awhile in something of a straight manner.

i might have to start capitalizing letters. i might!

two posts ago, you brought up oliver stone, you commented that this

situation is not like an oliver stone but a real one, you reminded me

and other readers that the word conspiracy is in the dictionary, then

you continued to throw conspiratorial claims and Now ....

now now now

you clip all of that away and say i'm the one whose suggesting

conspiracy.

MISTER. i was being nice.

i was trying to save you from your own fingers tendencies to shoot

unnecessary shots that are poisoning your pen.

i really really feel stupid. cuz for quite awhile i really respected

you despite the innuendo you throw so quickly as a scholar. for quite

awhile i really thought that you were a person that cared about these

matters.

i'm pretty much convinced right now ... and hopefully it will change ..

that you are a very very bitter man who cares more about throwing crap

at people than about anything else.

sincerely,

Mister David Race Rhaesa

p.s. read while listeining to a touch of Johnny Cash at midnight.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:43:36 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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From: talk dirty to me <mutton@JANE.PENN.COM>

Subject: Re: Flammable

a is not a

z is not z

everything in between is hogwash

on a shore of butter

red

jerm

to andy

----------

: From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

: To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

: Subject: Flammable

: Date: Thursday, May 15, 1997 12:36 PM

: I Vagadondi del Dharma.

: A Han-Sahan (who is?)

: 1.

: Saltato su un treno merci che partiva da Los Angeles in pieno

: mezzogiorno d'una giornata di fine settembre del 1955 presi

: posto su un carro aperto e mi straiai col mio sacco a spalla

: sotto la testa a gambe accavallate e contemplai le nuvole mentre

: correvamo a nord verso Santa Barbara. Era un treno locale

: e la mia intenzione era di dormire quella notte sulla spiaggia

: di Santa Barbara e salire la mattina dopo su un altro treno locale

: fino a San Luis Obispo oppure su un merci espresso che

: arrivava direttamente a San Francisco alle sette di sera.

: All'altezza di Camarillo, dove Charlie Parker, impazzito, era stato

: ricoverato e restituito alla normalita',....

: ma quello che incontri but what you meet

: h realmente un'esperienza? is really an experience?

: Parker h rosso Parker is red

: come un crepuscolo like a twilight

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:54:39 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: andrew szymczyk <trent@JANE.PENN.COM>

Subject: school and literature...

hmmm,

seeing that there's a lot of talk about school

programs, i feel that i need to budge in. i'm a junior in

high school right now, and not too long ago my american

lit. teacher became aware of my interest in the beat gen.

she already knew that i was reading more in my spare

time than most of the kiddies my age, but she was still

a little put off because of her experience with the beats.

she has never been a fan of kerouac because of his

apparent machoism to her, and other than that she

really hadn't dealt with more beat than she had to. i

tried to talk her into teaching a little from that era, and

she complied by promising me that she'd find some

appropriate poems that could be taught to the whole

class, but other than that she feels that her job would

be in danger. i must agree because there's just so

much that the small community in which i live can

handle. but after all of this she HASN'T deterred me

from delving farther into the literature.... in fact, she likes

to see and hear about what i'm reading, as long as it's

done on my own time. so i guess that as long as the

beats are mentioned in class and the students are

given fair awareness of them then i'll be happy.

as a side note, we were made to watch a film

strip on walt whitman a little earlier in the year. the film

started going off on whom whitman has influenced

throughout the years, and as a picture of kerouac

surfaced on the screen i threw my hands up in joy. i

really don't think that anyone else in the class knew

what i was so happy about, but i suppose that that's

their loss.

andrew

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 16:21:38 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>

Subject: Re: something completely different .... -Reply

In-Reply-To: <970514232850_1556996347@emout19.mail.aol.com>

On Wed, 14 May 1997, Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:

> In a message dated 97-05-14 21:02:28 EDT, you write:

> << an admirable cause no doubt, but i don't know if this is such a great

> >idea. at a high school level, at least in terms of my

> >for-just-few-fucking-more-weeks-will-i-havetosay-ongoing highschool

> >experience, >>

> At the age of 15 I heard my mother start reading out loud and translating The

> Ticket That Exploded to her French lover, Claude Pelieu. I also heard her

> translating Reality Sandwiches. By the time I was 16 I had met AG, LF, Bob

> Kaufman, and all the Beats living in SF including Charles Plymell. I can't

> say that it changed my life because it was the way my life was.

> I don't believe it has ever hurt a teenager to read good literature.

> My mother, Mary Beach and Claude Pelieu are considered the best translators

> of the Beats into French. Their translation of Bob Kaufman made him more

> famous in France than in America.

> Pam Plymell

hello evryone,

I would never say that highschoolers should not read Beat lit; but i

don't think it should necessarily be TAUGHT in highschool.

I am currently a senior in highschool. i became familiar with Kerouac

outside of school, and Beat literature is not included in any of the

English classes at my school, although a few novels are listed as the

suggestions for assignments in a couple classes at my school. i have done

papers for school on Kerouac and Ginsberg on rare occasions when students

are allowed to choose, with the approval of the teacher, their topics.

of the teachers at my school, though dont get me wrong they are all very

interested in literature, i don't think any of them would be able to do a

good job with the beats.

based only on my experience, beat writing could only be effectively used

in the active coursework if the methods of teaching were drastically

different (improved?). for example, less forced, more subjective, free,

whatever.

nevertheless, i think its great for teenagers to read any good or

interesting works. but On the Road cannot be treated thev same as stuff i

normally read in school because most of my teachers just don't get On the

Road.

(i have more to say but cant right now)

respectfully,

Eric

rhs4@crystal.palace.net

who was instructed last year that: the White Whale respresents all that is

paradoxical, unpredictable, and uncontrolable in nature; and if one tries

to say that it signifies something else, he or she is flat out wrong!

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 04:28:06 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: George Thomas Finch <finchgeo@PILOT.MSU.EDU>

Subject: Re: han on rye

Derek A. Beaulieu wrote:

> rinaldo(beet of little vegetation)

> is han-sahan anything like han-shan ("cold mountain")??

> yrs

> derek

I believe so yes, may be a mis-romaization of the Chinese..:)

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 16:31:34 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>

Subject: Re: school and literature...

In-Reply-To: <9705151912.AA06879@jane.penn.com>

hello,

at my school, only passing refernece to the beats is made; like, "and in

the fifties, there was a group of people called beatnicks, who would sit

in coffeshops and read poetry while beating bongo drums." And thats it.

in the library, Ginsberg's Howl and The Fall of America are the only

books by him there, and they are categorized as RESERVED, which means

that they are kept in a shelf behind the checkout counter. "Fallof

America" is missing. Howl rests there. Because its reserved, it can only

be taken out for one night. Reserved books are the form of

mini-censorship our school engages in, i guess so that no innocent child

brosing through the poetry section will come across any "indecent" work.

The Reserved books include Tim Leary's Flashbacks as well as Scietific

books about drugs. if there was more beat literature at my school, itd be

there too, but --

adios, soory if this is boring,

Eric

On Thu, 15 May 1997, andrew szymczyk wrote:

> hmmm,

> seeing that there's a lot of talk about school

> programs, i feel that i need to budge in. i'm a junior in

> high school right now, and not too long ago my american

> lit. teacher became aware of my interest in the beat gen.

> she already knew that i was reading more in my spare

> time than most of the kiddies my age, but she was still

> a little put off because of her experience with the beats.

> she has never been a fan of kerouac because of his

> apparent machoism to her, and other than that she

> really hadn't dealt with more beat than she had to. i

> tried to talk her into teaching a little from that era, and

> she complied by promising me that she'd find some

> appropriate poems that could be taught to the whole

> class, but other than that she feels that her job would

> be in danger. i must agree because there's just so

> much that the small community in which i live can

> handle. but after all of this she HASN'T deterred me

> from delving farther into the literature.... in fact, she likes

> to see and hear about what i'm reading, as long as it's

> done on my own time. so i guess that as long as the

> beats are mentioned in class and the students are

> given fair awareness of them then i'll be happy.

> as a side note, we were made to watch a film

> strip on walt whitman a little earlier in the year. the film

> started going off on whom whitman has influenced

> throughout the years, and as a picture of kerouac

> surfaced on the screen i threw my hands up in joy. i

> really don't think that anyone else in the class knew

> what i was so happy about, but i suppose that that's

> their loss.

> andrew

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:32:58 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: MARK NIGON <Mark_Nigon@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM>

Subject: school and literature... -Reply

RIGHT ON ANDREW!

THAT'S IT! Worse case scenario, a few people in class are bored with

the Beat Gen. works and yawn. Best case scenario, people like you get

turned on to the power of lit. (Hands are thrown in the air and silent

screams of joy are let go!) I had a similar experience with HS teacher

that turned me on to lit. that wasn't being taught in class. This may

sound goofy, BUT SHE CHANGED MY LIFE. Another goofy comment:

Literature doesn't seem to be for everyone. True quote from a friend of

mine: "You read??? Readin's dumb!" OK..., I say. His interests lay

elsewhere. So what? People on this list dig reading and writing...it's

in our blood and a part of our everyday life. It was a part of me when

I was a high school student. It took the time and attention of a

special teacher to nurture and develop what was to become a passion (and

way of life.) Kudos to your teacher for having the guts to step outside

the classroom curriculum and recognize your passion.

My best,

-Mark

MARK_NIGON@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM

>>> andrew szymczyk <trent@JANE.PENN.COM> 05/15/97 02:54pm >>>

hmmm,

seeing that there's a lot of talk about school

programs, i feel that i need to budge in. i'm a junior in

high school right now, and not too long ago my american

lit. teacher became aware of my interest in the beat gen.

she already knew that i was reading more in my spare

time than most of the kiddies my age, but she was still

a little put off because of her experience with the beats.

she has never been a fan of kerouac because of his

apparent machoism to her, and other than that she

really hadn't dealt with more beat than she had to. i

tried to talk her into teaching a little from that era, and

she complied by promising me that she'd find some

appropriate poems that could be taught to the whole

class, but other than that she feels that her job would

be in danger. i must agree because there's just so

much that the small community in which i live can

handle. but after all of this she HASN'T deterred me

from delving farther into the literature.... in fact, she likes

to see and hear about what i'm reading, as long as it's

done on my own time. so i guess that as long as the

beats are mentioned in class and the students are

given fair awareness of them then i'll be happy.

as a side note, we were made to watch a film

strip on walt whitman a little earlier in the year. the film

started going off on whom whitman has influenced

throughout the years, and as a picture of kerouac

surfaced on the screen i threw my hands up in joy. i

really don't think that anyone else in the class knew

what i was so happy about, but i suppose that that's

their loss.

andrew

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 23:02:23 +0200

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject: STARSPOTTING Re: Chaput is Kaput!

>and photocopiers are hell ....

>david rhaesa

THE Spice Girls sang live last night

for the first time on a stage to show

they can perform their complicated

harmonies without the aid of backing

tapes.

yrs rinaldo.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 23:03:36 +0200

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject: OUT OF THE DARKNESS

"Bernard show believed that

the British Libray was the only

successful socialist demoscracy in the

world which treated readers equally,

was paid for out of redistribuited tax

and run on non-profit-making principles."

*Cats appear to be the only domestic animals

permitted to stray at will on public land &

private property other than that of their owners*

yrs Rinaldo.

* 1 2 3 tutti giu'! *

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 23:15:51 +0200

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject: 1977

http://www.taonet.it/77web/

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 23:23:25 +0200

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject: counterculture its dawn

Divenire delle culture creative

La fenomenologia delle culture creative contiene un complesso sistema di

riferimenti che rinviano alle avanguardie storiche, al maoismo, ma anche

alla filosofia hippy, all'orientalismo degli anni Sessanta, all'utopismo

felice e comunitario, connesso con la pessimistica profezia della Teoria

critica.

Nel corso degli anni Sessanta due tendenze avevano dato forma alle culture

cosiddette giovanili: la tendenza a considerare I'avvenire con sicurezza e

fiducia, ad accettare il modello di sviluppo economico e tecnologico che

sembrava destinato ad essere illimitato e irreversibile E poi vi era la

tendenza che possiame definire "controculturale: questa non metteva

sostanzialmente in questione la certezza di uno sviluppo lineare, ma si

limitava a rifiutarne le conseguenze di integrazione culturale e di

appiattimento esistenziale, rifiutava l'omologazione e la perdita di

liberta che la societa dei consumi determinava.

Il movimento controculturale (hippy, antimperialista, movimento delle

comuni, movimento studentesco) era strettamente connesso alla societa del

benessere, ne era I'altra faccia.

Ma ecco che con gli anni Settanta il quadro economico e politico muta: la

crisi rompe la fiducia nel futuro, e l'orizzonte non appare rassicurante:

le identita personali e collettive del decennio precedente (che siano

integrate o ribelli) debbono ridisegnarsi su un altro panorama, su un'altra

attesa di futuro.

Non c'i dubbio che la data piz significativa di questo rovesciamento di

scenari e di percezione i il '77.

Il '77 i un anno carico di significato per le culture giovanili in tutto

l'occidente: i l'anno in cui il punk esplode a Londra, ed i Sex Pistols

sfidano la polizia e la monarchia con i loro concerti provocatori, nel

giorno dei festeggiamenti per la Regina. Ed i l'anno in cui si verificano

le prime grandi manifestazioni antinucleari, a Malville ed a Brokdorf.

I movimenti rivoluzionari erano stati portatori di una speranza e di

un'ideologia fiduciosa e organica; i movimenti che si manifestano in

quell'anno sono invece il segno del rifiuto e del rigetto della modernita,

segnalano piuttosto disperazione per lo scenario creato dalla crisi e

dall'emergere delle nuove tecnologie, che una speranza nel progresso

tecnologico ed economico.

Un'intera prospettiva storica si rovescia, le culture giovanili registrano

questo rovesciamento nel '77: dall'espansione della societa industriale si

passa alla sua crisi, e inoltre il progresso industriale comincia a

mostrare le sue tendenze catastrofiche. Il rovesciamento della prospettiva

i anche segnato dalla transizione alla societa dominata dall'elettronica,

dalla freddezza tecnologica e dall'arroganza competitiva, dall'onnipotenza

dello spettacolo e dell'informazione.

I giovani che vengono sulla scena dopo il '77 sono in effetti ben diversi

da quelli che li avevano preceduti: essi sono gli spettatori del crollo dei

miti sociali del moderno: la crisi di prospettiva della societa moderna

appare loro come il venir meno di ogni possibilita di futuro. Il punk i, in

questo senso, la lucida consapevolezza di un mutamento epocale.

Visto su questo sfondo, il '77 italiano acquista una partioclare densita:

in quell'anno si sommano gli effetti di una prolungata stagione di lotte

operaie e di una esplosione culturale di movimenti di rivolta dei

disoccupati e dei giovani, di tutti coloro che si sentono minacciati dal

nuovo assetto produttivo che si intravvede all'orizzonte del postindustriale.

Il movimento del '77 in Italia sintetizza tutte le differenti facce della

controcultura giovanile: l'anima politica di stampo maoista, l'aggressivita

guerrigliera si mescolano con il creativismo di chiara derivazione hippy: e

tutto questo finisce per sfociare nella cupa e disperata rappresentazione

del primo emergere del punk.

Mentre nei mesi caldi della primavera del '77 (quando esplosero le rivolte

di piazza a Bologna e a Roma) il tono predominante era quello della

speranza messianica, della fiducia euforica in una comunita liberata, nella

costruzione di zone liberate, nei mesi successivi, dopo l'impatto con la

durezza della repressione e soprattutto con la spietata logica

dell'emraginazione , della disoccupazione, della competitivita, divenne

predominante il tono disperato e autodistruttivo, il sentimento del

sopravvenire di un'epoca disumana in cui tutti i valori di solidarieta

sarebbero stati cancellati.

In questo senso possiamo dire che il '77 fu al contempo una sintesi degli

anni Sessanta e Settanta, ed una cupa premonizione degli anni Ottanta.

Dopo il '77 vennero ad emergenza in maniera diffusa quelle tendenze che

caratterizzano il comportamento della popolazione giovanile nei cosiddetti

anni del "riflusso": si modificano gli atteggiamenti e le motivazioni verso

il lavoro, gli atteggiamenti verso ilprocesso di socializzazione, il

bisogno di comunita e il gusto estremistico e sprezzante per la propira

solitudine orgogliosa. E infine matura in quel momento il passaggio dalle

fome culturali improntate al collettivismo e alligualitarismo verso le

forme che sono dominate dall'individualismo.

Il '77 rappresenta una critica di ogni investimento psicologico sul futuro,

e la rivendicazione di un'immanenza senza residui, di un vivere nel

presente che non lascia spazio alle ideologie ni alle attese. Nella cultura

del '77 l'insurrezione i un atto tutto presente, un atto che vale la sua

immediatezza e non per il futuro che deve instaurare. Su questo rifiuto

dell'investimento nel futuro si fonda anche la critica che la cultura

del'77 rivolse alla militanza politica tradizionale.

Bisogna vivere subito la felicita, e non proporsela per il futuro

post-rivoluzionario. Ma se vediamo le cose in prospettiva, con gli occhi

della successiva esperienza, ci rendiamo conto del fatto che l'immanentismo

felice del '77, la rivendicazione di un futuro integrale da vivere

pienamente altro non i che l'anticipazione del "no future" del punk, che

subito dopo il tramonto della bruciante esperienza del '77 dilaga nella

coscienza giovanile. Non bisogna attendersi nulla dal futuro perchi non c'i

futuro per i valori umani, per la solidarieta, la liberta, il piacere di

vivere.

Il futuro apparve improvvisamente segnato dagli spettri della

militarizzazione, della violenza, del conformismo, della miseria. E in

effetti dopo il '77 che gli investimenti militari aumentano spaventosamente

e il clima della guerra fredda riprende in concomitanza con l avittoria di

Reagan; i dopo il '77 che un'ondata di licenziamenti si abbatte sugli

operai in tutto l'Occidente industriale, e le nuove tecnologie mettono

fuori gioco milioni di posti di lavoro facendo della disoccupazione

giovanile un dato strutturale ineliminabile.

Il futuro appare arido e deserto; e in effetti i a partire da quel momento

che sul mercato dell droga fa la sua comparsa massiccia l'eroina, ed i

anche il momento in cui, costretti a trovare uno spazio nel mondo della

deregulation e della concorrenza spietata fra disoccupati, fanno la loro

ricomparsa individualismo e competizione, producendo una crisi profonda

delle forme di comunita solidale degli anni precedenti.

Insomma, i in quel momento che cambia lo scenario: ma esso cambia

soprattutto nel sistema di attese e di immaginazioni possibili del futuro.

Cambia, cioi, nella mente sociale, nella percezione culturale, fino a

rinchiudersi cupamente nell'omologazione conformista ed anestetizzante

degli anni Ottanta dispiegati.

(PRIMO MORONI/NANNI BALESTRINI - L'ORDA D'ORO - SugarCo 1988 )

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 23:29:08 +0200

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject: ALLEN GINSBERG IS ALIVE IN THE NET

Siti e documenti su Allen Ginsberg e sulla sua opera

Ma il Beat sopravvive in Rete

di ENRICO M. FERRARI

Il "seme e la sorgente" della Beat Generation, come h stato definito Allen

Ginsberg su un sito americano, sopravvive online, e con lui la sua cultura.

Subito dopo l'aggravarsi delle condizioni di salute di Ginsberg, i maggiori

siti a lui dedicati o collegati sono usciti con bollettini speciali che ne

hanno scandito le ultime ore di vita.

Wired dedica alla scomparsa del padre del Beat un lungo servizio ricco di

fatti sulla vita e l'opera di Ginsberg.

Uno dei punti principali, pieno di foto, scritti e link su Ginsberg, h la

pagina di Mongo Bearwolf. Una sorta di epitaffio virtuale h presente su

questa pagina, in perfetto stile Beat.

Literary Kicks dedica svariate pagine a Ginsburg e alle sue opere: h

presente una bibliografia dei lavori di Ginsberg,

http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/Lists/GinsbergWorks.html ed una bibliografia

dei lavori su Ginsberg stesso,

http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/Biblio/GinsbergBiblio.html

L'FBI aveva aperto diverse inchieste su Ginsberg : nel sito Allen

Ginsberg's FBI Files h possibile ritrovare tracce di quelle indagini.

The Beat Generation Archive presenta un vasto archivio sul mondo beat:

articoli, foto e link a personaggi o protagonisti del movimento.

Nella "bhoemian page" dedicata a Ginsberg h presente una completa biografia

del poeta, con il lungo dispaccio Associated Press che ne annuncia la morte.

Famose e numerose sono le interviste di Ginsberg, tutte presenti sulla rete

, ma sparse per numerosi siti: La celebre intervista "Ginsberg goes

bananas" h tratta da Seconds Magazine, Hot Press presenta una intervista

denominata "Ma il beat avanza..". Mark Amerika, "columnist" di Internet,

dedica a Ginsberg il pezzo Amerika Online,

In occasione dell'intervento di Ginsberg al club Megatripolis di Londra, 19

ottobre 1995, Lee Harris, dedica un servizio a Ginsberg.

The Poetry of Allen Ginsberg raccoglie i lavori di Ginsberg tratti da "Howl

and other poems," del 1956 e del 1959.

Altri lavori online si possono trovare su HotWired e sul sito Harry Smith.

Una completa scelta di titoli su Ginsberg, libri e CD, h disponibile su

Amazon con i prezzi di ogni singolo articolo.

Una mailing list sul beat h rintracciabile presso:

gopher://dept.english.upenn.edu:70/00/Lists/20th/beat-l

Il newsgroup che si occupa di beat generation h: news:alt.books.beatgeneration

http://sun2.repubblica.it/cultura_scienze/ginsberg/rassegna/rassegna.html

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 17:06:24 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: jo grant <jgrant@BOOKZEN.COM>

Subject: Re: The 100 Year Test

In-Reply-To: <970514143243_641414144@emout02.mail.aol.com>

On 5-14-97 Jeffrey Weinberg wrote:

The other day I was surfing around and discovered Jo Grant's

>web page on which he is running Nicosia's piece about the JK archives. In

>that essay, the same error that Gerry took back later on is still there on Jo

>Grant's page.

>I wrote Jo Grant and asked him to remove the error written about me. His

>response to me was that he hasn't had time yet. He's been too busy. The man

>knows it's a lie and doesn't have time to remove it??

Jeffery,

I responded to your request that I remove the information NOT by saying I

was too busy.

My first response was to tell you I had been out of town and I'd take care

of it right away...that Gerry had probably already asked me to do so--which

he hasn't, but he has been busy so I understand. I will check with him.

Then, when I looked for the information on BookZen I couldn't find it.

So on 5-14-97 at 2:04 p.m. I responded with the following:

>Jeffery,

>A friend is in the process of reorganizing the Keroauc material on

>BookZen. I jumped >in this a.m. and couldn't find the page to correct.

>Would you mind sending me the document's address? It would really help and

>save me >a ton of time.

>Thanks,

>jo

The above was in response to the following.

>>Jo

:>>

>>I was finally able tonight to read Gerry's essay about the Estate controversy

>>that you have posted on your web page.

>>In the essay, Gerry mentions that Rod Anstee is a close friend of mine and

>>that he had detailed information about what I sold as agent for John Sampas

>>and to whom.

>I have paraphrased Gerry's words - you get the drift of what I'm referring to

>>-

>>Gerry is wrong about this matter. Rod Anstee did not know about all the items

>>that were sold nor did he know to whom. I did not tell Anstee all the details

>>- just the details that were not considered confidential.

>>As a professional, I keep all business transactions between parties

>>confidential unless I am told otherwise by the parties involved.

>>Gerry and I have already discussed this matter of confidentiality and Gerry

>>has posted a correction to one of his emails on the Beat-L. However, I demand

>>that you

>>notify Gerry immediately and that his essay on your web page that mentions me

>>be corrected.

>>I am sure that Gerry does not wish to continue to give the impression that I

>>am not professional in my duties nor that I cannot be entrusted with clients'

>>personal business affairs.

>>Sincerely,

>>Jeffrey H. Weinberg

>>Water Row Books

I have not been remiss in addressing this issue. I honestly have not been

able to find the document in question. Please send me the address of the

document.

j grant

BE ON THE WATCH

for items stolen from the Keroauc Collection

O'Leary Library, U Mass, Lowell

http://www.bookzen.com/kerouac.theft.html

Academic & Small Press Authors & publishers

display books free at

<http://www.bookzen.com>

302,443 visitors since July 1, 1996

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 00:09:25 +0200

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject: FROM ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY FROM ITALY with love.

Michael Stutz wrote:

>i'm sorry, but this is an english-speaking list. nobody can read this.

>please limit your posts to the english language.

>On Thu, 15 May 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

>> Divenire delle culture creative

[snipped/tagliuzzato/cut]

>Michael Stutz

Michael, i ask pardon to all the Beat-List!, chiedo perdono!,

are u interested in the UNIVERSAL knownledge of the matter?

i hope the answer is yes!

my poor signature is Pooh Bear a not competent beetle-beet-bee-be-bo-beat

or a starspotting on the Beat-List...

or in the beat scene... vi prego se scrivo in italiano cerco

di scrivere anche more in american but sometime the time

to translate a thought stress my spontaneous email prose &

tooke me a great piece of time... sorry Michael Stutz. how

can i do? i must became a dumb? why u not learn some italian? (a chance).

*awright derek & others Han-Shan is the real beetthing! *

*thnxlt*

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 18:28:08 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject: Re: FROM ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY FROM ITALY with love.

In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970516000925.0068cab0@pop.gpnet.it>

On Fri, 16 May 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

> Michael, i ask pardon to all the Beat-List!, chiedo perdono!,

> are u interested in the UNIVERSAL knownledge of the matter?

Maybe you should learn the universal language of netiquette, then. Load up a

search engine and look up "netiquette" -- or however you spell it in

Italian, because I'm sure there are translations -- so you can learn that

its impolite and in bad taste to quote other people's email on a public

forum without their permission. Same goes to flooding lists which you did

here not too long ago.

It is not my place (or desire) to police a list but this constant barrage of

noise is wearing thin. Sure I looked at that '77 url you posted, but saw no

relation to the list other than the words "william blake," and that article

a while back (all in Italian) with the nice Ginzy photo, but come on! I know

German, so should I post a shitload of German poetry to the list, or reprint

articles from _Der Spiegel_ about Allen Ginsberg? Why draw the line there --

how 'bout I send copies of "Beat Zen, Square Zen, and Zen" -- Japanse

translation -- to the list? It will look like noise to most readers, but the

"UNIVERSAL knowledge" is somewhere in those bits!

Other listers: am I missing something here?

Rinaldo: gosh you're quick to address my complaint (sent to you just minutes

before you posted to the list), but you've been great at ignoring other

email I sent to you in the past asking you questions or to expound on other

things you wrote. Guess I just wasn't interesting enough to share your

universal knowledge then.

Sick of noise and bad vibes, all too much lately,

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 18:36:49 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "Paul McDonald, TeleReference LA, Main Info Services"

<PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>

Subject: To Jack Kerouac

DO JACK KEROUAC

by Cathal O'Searcaigh

do Sheamas de Blaca

"The only people for me are the mad ones,

the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk,

mad to be saved, desirous of everything at

the same time, the ones who never yawn or

say a commonplace thing but burn,

burn like fabulous yellow roman candles"

Sliocht as On the Road

Ag sioscadh tri do shaothar anocht thainig leoithne na

cuimhne chugam o gach leathanach.

Athmhusclaiodh m'oige is mhothaigh me ag eiri ionam an

beat briongloideach a bhi ag deanamh aithris ort i dtus na seachtoidi.

1973. Bhi me hookailte ort. La i ndiaidh lae fuair me shot inspioraide o

do shaothar a ghealaigh m'aigne is a shin mo shamhlaiocht.

Ni Min a Lea na Fana Bhui a bhi a fheiceail agam an t-am adai ach

machairi Nebraska agus tailte fearaigh Iowa.

Agus nuair a thagadh na bliuann orm ni bealach na Bealtaine a bhi

romham amach ach morbhealach de chuid Mheiricea.

"Hey man you gotta stay high" a dearfainn le mo chara agus muid ag

freakail tri Chailifornia Chill Ulta isteach go Frisco an Fhal

Charraigh.

Ta do leabhar ina lui druidte ar m'ucht ach faoi chraiceann an chludaigh

ta do chroi ag preabadaigh i bhfeitfeog gach focail.

Oh man mothaim aris, na higheanna adai ar Himileithe na hoige:

O chosta go costa thriall muid le cheile, saonta, spleodrach,

mistiurtha;

Oilithreacht ordoige o Nua-Eabhrac go Frisco agus as sin go Cathair

Mheicsiceo;

Beat buile inar mbeatha. Spreagtha. Ag bladhmadh sios boithre i

gCadillacs ghasta ag sciorradh thar ior na ceille ar eiteoga na

mbennies.

Thrasnaigh muid teorainneacha agus thrasnaigh muid taibhrithe.

Cheiliuraigh muid gach casadh ar bhealach ar mbeatha, bingeanna agus

braithreachas o Bhrooklyn go Berkeley, booze, bop agus Budachas; Eigse

na hAise; sreangscealta as an tsioraiocht ar na Sierras; marijuana

agus misteachas i Meicsiceo; briongloidi buile i mBixby Canyon.

Rinne muid Oirfeas as gach orifice.

O is cuimhneach liom e go leir, a Jack, an chaint is an cuartu.

Ba tusa bard beoshuileach na mboithre, ar thoir na foirfeachta, ar thoir

na bhFlatheas.

Is ce nach bhfuil aon aicearra chuig na Deithe, adeirtear, d'eirigh

leatsa sli a aimsiu in amantai nuair a d'fheistigh tu uim adhainte ar

Niagara d'aigne le dope is le diagacht.

Is i mBomaite sin na Buile gineadh solas a thug spleachadh duit ar an

tSioraiocht,

Is a threoraigh 'na bhaile tu, ta suil agam, la do bhais chuig Whitman,

Proust agus Rimbaud.

Ta mo bhealach fein romham amach... "a road that ah zigzags all over

creation. Yeah man! Ain't nowhere else it can go. Right!"

Agus la inteacht ar bhealach na seanaoise is na scoilteacha

No la nios congarai do bhaile, b'fheidir,

Scroicfidh me Crosbhealach na Cinniuna is beidh an Bas romham ansin,

Treorai tiriuil le me a thabhairt thar teorainn,

Is ansin, goddammit a Jack, beidh muid beirt ag siobshiul s tSioraiocht.

TO JACK KEROUAC

For Seamas de Blaca

"The only people for me are the mad ones,

the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk,

mad to be saved, desirous of everything at

the same time, the ones who never yawn or

say a commonplace thing but burn, burn like

fabulous yellow roman candles"

On the Road

Thumbing through your work tonight the aroma of memories came from

every page.

My youth rewoke and I felt rising in me the dreamy beat that imitated

you at the start of the '70s.

1973. I was hooked on you. Day after day I got shots of inspiritation

from your life which lit my mind and stretched my imagination.

I didn't see Min 'a Lea or Fana Bhui then, but the plains of Nebraska

and the grassy lands of Iowa

And when the blues came it wasn't the Bealtaine road that beckoned but

a way stretching across America.

"Hey man you gotta stay high," I'd say to my friend as we freaked

through California's Cill Ulta into Frisco's Falcarragh.

Your book lies shut on my breast, your heart beating under the skin

cover in the muscle of every word.

Oh man I feel them again, those highs on youth's Himalayas from coast

to coast we roamed together, free, wild, reckless:

A hitchhiking odyssey from New York to Frisco and down to Mexico

City.

A mad beat to our lives. Crazed. Hurtling down highways in speeding

cars, skidding over the verge of sanity on the wings of Benzedrine.

We crossed frontiers and we scaled dreams.

Celebrations at every turn of life's highway, binges and brotherhood

from Brooklyn to Berkeley; booze, bop and Buddhism; Asian verse;

telegrams from a Sierra eternity; marijuana and mysticism in

Mexico; frenzied visions in Bixby Canyon.

Orpheus emerged from every orifice.

O I remember it all Jack, the talk and the quest.

You were the wild-eyed poet walking free, searching for harmony,

searching for Heaven.

And although it is said there's no shortcut to the Gods you opened one

up now and then, harnessing your mind's Niagara with dope and

divinity.

And in those rapturous moments you generated the

light that you saw eternity by

And that guided you, I hope, the day of your death, home to Whitman,

Proust and Rimbaud.

My road is before me "a road that ah zigzags all over creation. Yeah

man! Ain't nowhere else it can go. Right!"

And someday, on the road of ailing sight and knotted limbs

Or a less distant day, perhaps

Death will face me Fate's Crossroads

My gentle companion across the frontier

And then, goddamit Jack, we'll both be hiking across eternity.

translated by Sarah Berkeley

Published in Heaven Poster Series #61

Ron Whitehead

the literary renaissance

1387 Lexington Road

Louisville, Kentucky

40206

USA

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:07:22 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Henry <luckfry@NETWAY1.MDC.NET>

Subject: test

test

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:39:01 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>

Subject: Re: FROM ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY ITALY FROM ITALY with love.

In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.94.970515181337.20555U-100000@seka.nacs.net>

excuse the interjection,

as someone whose been on and off the list for more than a year now, i can

observe, isn't it funny that attempts to "stop wasteful posts" often just

creates a whole ongoing string of more wasteful posts, like arguments,

namecalling, debates as to what is or isnt relevent, and posts like the

one i'm writing which bathes in wastefulness.

insincerely,

Eric

-- Perhaps the only way we can stop ourselves from going to hell is to do

nothing to prevent it --

On Thu, 15 May 1997, Michael Stutz wrote:

> On Fri, 16 May 1997, Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

> > Michael, i ask pardon to all the Beat-List!, chiedo perdono!,

> > are u interested in the UNIVERSAL knownledge of the matter?

> Maybe you should learn the universal language of netiquette, then. Load up a

> search engine and look up "netiquette" -- or however you spell it in

> Italian, because I'm sure there are translations -- so you can learn that

> its impolite and in bad taste to quote other people's email on a public

> forum without their permission. Same goes to flooding lists which you did

> here not too long ago.

> It is not my place (or desire) to police a list but this constant barrage of

> noise is wearing thin. Sure I looked at that '77 url you posted, but saw no

> relation to the list other than the words "william blake," and that article

> a while back (all in Italian) with the nice Ginzy photo, but come on! I know

> German, so should I post a shitload of German poetry to the list, or reprint

> articles from _Der Spiegel_ about Allen Ginsberg? Why draw the line there --

> how 'bout I send copies of "Beat Zen, Square Zen, and Zen" -- Japanse

> translation -- to the list? It will look like noise to most readers, but the

> "UNIVERSAL knowledge" is somewhere in those bits!

> Other listers: am I missing something here?

> Rinaldo: gosh you're quick to address my complaint (sent to you just minutes

> before you posted to the list), but you've been great at ignoring other

> email I sent to you in the past asking you questions or to expound on other

> things you wrote. Guess I just wasn't interesting enough to share your

> universal knowledge then.

> Sick of noise and bad vibes, all too much lately,

> m

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 18:58:46 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: George Russell <CodyPomera@AOL.COM>

Subject: AOL & Neal Cassady

Hello, I just made the big plunge to AOL, 30 days unlimited time free and all

that, and I was wondering since there are an endless amount of "newsgroups"

on AOL if any of you know of any beat places to hang out? BTW: Maybe Leon

can help me out with this, but how much did Neal change when he started

dropping acid? I know it has skewed (maybe not skews, enlightens?, who

knows) my perspectives, and the man had too have changed considerably. Just

wondering since I have been watching this video I got from KEY-Z productions

called Neal Cassady, Drive Alive. Some crazy, whacked out shit let me tell

you. Not worth, of course, the 29.95 I paid for it, but hell, I wanted to

see the man in action. Actually, it is pretty well done and I will watch it

more than once so it was worth it, but it seems to me that LSD just

intensified him or was he just a completely different person? Eh?

Thanks....

-George

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:29:20 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Jeanne Vaccaro <SlugBug747@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: The horror! The horror!

Sorry (i am alittle - alot - late...)

I completely disagree with the idea that the Pranksters and others have to

get moving with the times. Their statement, as I see it, is not necessarily

about a particualar time in history, but rather about culture and lifestyle

... which has no boundries or limitations. It is about freedom and

expression and a true love for life, both good and bad, and dealing... it is

a message which i hope we can all learn from (wheather or not we choose to

follow it). they urge us follow ourselves and reject the things which are

thrown in front of us... we should seek things for ourselves...

that is a timeless message...

p.s. i have tickets to see dylan for the first time ever (for me he is a god)

and friends gave me similar speeches about his voice failing, etc. but he is

a legend regardless and i will appriciate him and his work forever

ciao, jeanne.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:31:30 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Jeanne Vaccaro <SlugBug747@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: The horror! The horror!

oh mike...i could not agree with you more <sigh>

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:12:38 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: "Dawn B. Sova" <DawnDR@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: AG's grave?? and Paterson Memorial

I heard recently that Paterson officials relented and will allow a public

memorial reading/service/remembrance for local "bad boy" Allen. Date is June

8th - and I will add information as I learn it.

Dawn

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 20:51:00 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Rod Anstee <Nastees@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: A Found Poem

In a message dated 97-05-15 11:53:58 EDT, Gerry wrote:

> I'm out for money and power, I'm a glory

>hunter, I'm too cheap to donate to a good cause, I'm a "nut," etc.

A "found poem" and, incidentally, a pretty darn good summary I think.

Well done, Gerry.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:50:54 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Solomon's Mishaps

In a message dated 97-05-15 11:44:54 EDT, you write:

<< I'm posting some of his pieces from More Mishaps (City Lights, 1968)

that concern themselves with the Beat Generation, and with reading. >>

If you check out the copyright page that book was first published by Beach

Books, Texts & Documents. They also published APO-33 by WSB. I don't believe

LF would have touched that book if Claude and Mary hadn't pointed the way.

I have fond memories of Carl visiting us here in Cherry Valley. He came to

fish at the Committee.

Pam Plymell

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:55:01 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Subject: Motivations

I sure hope that the posts about the Kerouac Estate battle ebb rather than

flow, at least at the recent rate.

I just want to add that I have no doubt that Mr. Nicosea's motivations are

relitively pure -- pure as anything else in an all too cynical world. Anyone

who has read Memory Babe must at least grant that Mr. Nicosea knows his

subject well, perhaps he has become too close for comfort, and that he has a

genuine love for the best of the Kerouac literary legacy without turning a

blind eye to the flaws that Jack Kerouac and the rest of the human race

share.

Mr. Nicosea may still be wrong about many things. I have no doubt that Mr.

Anstee, Mr. Chaput and probably Mr. Sampus also love the Kerouac legacy and

the man himself. Why else would someone like Mr. Anstee amass a world class

collection? Why else would Mr. Chaput work so dilligently on the annual

Lowell Celebrates Kerouac celebration? And if John Sampus was ONLY motivated

by money, why would he not have sold off everything by now?

In the heat of the moment, let us not forget that Mr. Nicosea has devoted a

great part of his life to Jack Kerouac and has shared his work with all of

us. I thank him for it, and I thank him for his current efforts without

making ANY judgement about his claims, legal or otherwise. I also thank Ann

Charters, Tom Clark, Dennis McNally and the others who have done so much to

help us understand the life and work of Jack Kerouac. In addition, I thank

Mr. Nicosea for anything he ever did for Jan Kerouac, a fragile soul who was

dealt a very rough hand in life. The only thing I do not thank Mr. Nicosea

for is his well-demonstrated penchant for judgement of the motivations of

his detractors.

I'll save my judgements for the likes of George Will, Newt Gingrich, Irving

Kristol, Bill Bennett, Norman Podheritz and anyone else who wants to erase

the freedom that has come to us in the last 40 or so years of cultural

battle.

Howard Park

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 18:58:29 -0700

Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!

Gerald Nicosia wrote:

> May 15, 1997

> Mr. David Rhaesa wrote:

> "Once again, you're lumping from point A to point Q in a

> conspiratorial mode. Frankly, I don't understand WHY you feel a need to

> incorporate these conspiratorial arguments into your discourse."

> Dear David,

> Some all-inclusive conspiracy theories are wacko--like Oliver Stone

> having everyone from the mafia to the CIA to Fidel Castro conspiring to kill

> Kennedy.

> That doesn't mean smalltime conspiracies don't sometimes exist. The

> word is in the English language for a reason.

> A lot of the stuff on the Beat-List recently, a lot of the charges

> against me and Jan, had to come directly from Sampas.

> For example, the matter of Jan Kerouac selling her mother's warrant

> for child support was not public knowledge. It was known only to Jan, me,

> the dealer, and the Sampases and their lawyer, George Tobia, who purchased

> it. It was never in a news story or recounted at any Kerouac event.

> So how did it get up here if it wasn't fed to someone by Sampas?

> Curiously yours, Gerry Nicosia

Gerry--

It was sent to me via a backchannel not directly related to this

controversy. I could look up the source if I had to, but it was not a

Sampas. I have never met a Sampas, never been in Lowell or near it for

nearly 50 years. Everyone you mention knows someone, who knows someone,

who knows someone. Very little stays private if it is interesting. I

seriously doubt I have been chosen by the Sampas Casa Nostra to leak out

their little bits of information. I have never met Chapaut or Anastee

or anyone except on this list. I am a non player here. It is examples

like this that make me lean toward Chaput's conclusion as to your having

become a little unbalanced over this.

I am an ex academic and ex scholar. It would be nice if the archive

existed but certainly not essential. There is no Chaucer archive, no

Shakespeare archive, and those guys reputations are doing just fine.

The rest of it is greed. Greed for money. Greed for publication credit

or whatever. I just don't care.I would rather read Jack than worry

about whether Paul Blake got screwed or not.

J Stauffer