community,
and that's why she won't do it. So they
send on someone like
Chaput
instead, who has nothing to lose.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 21:59:10 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: the mysterious Corso
At
05:09 PM 5/13/97 -0400, you wrote:
>On
Tue, 13 May 1997, Gerald Nicosia wrote:
>
>> There was a woman running around a
couple of years ago doing
>>
interviews for a biography of Corso, but I never heard any more from her (I
>>
can't even remember her name!) and I never heard any more about her book
>
either.
>
>Yeah,
what happened to her? Anyone know if the book ever came out? I had her
>address
around here somewhere, but now I can't find it, and i don't remember
>the
name.
>
>m
>
Dear
Michael: May 13, 1997
I
finally remembered her name--it was Kyle Roderick, and she lived in Los
Angeles. That's all I remember.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 00:27:22 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
So they send on someone like Chaput instead,
who has nothing to lose.
> Best always, Gerry Nicosia
what
evidence is there for this claim.
similar claims have been made in
others
letters. i could check the archives i
suppose. my preference
would
obviously be a negotiated settlement, but i don't understand
phrases
like this which seem to pop up in your letters quite often. it
reflects
something of what Hofstadter called the Paranoid Style.
Perhaps
i'm incorrect, but to this point i've seen no data provided in
any of
your arguments to support such claims.
i hope that the kerouac
collection
is not hanging on such a theory of conspiracy given the
weakness
of the form of argumentation within the field of judicial
reasoning.
just
wondering in kansas .... :)
david
rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 01:02:26 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
i
forgot to include credentials. they
ain't much. I'm currently on
TIAA
permanent and total disability for manic depression. Others
include:
david
rhaesa M.A. rhetorical criticism Baylor University, assistant
debate
coach at Dartmouth College, Ph.D. program in rhetorical theory
and
graduate assistant instructor in communications AND assistant debate
coach
at the University of Iowa, assistant director of debate and
instructor
in rhetoric of political communication Augustana College,
Rock
Island, IL. (should i include summer
teaching workshops or
consultation
for high school programs?)
but i
prefer just
david
or race
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 15:05:43 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Moritz Rossbach <moro0000@STUD.UNI-SB.DE>
Subject: Re: The horror of ken going furthur
In-Reply-To:
<v03007802af9df8229a77@[206.190.9.125]>
hi zach , i really enjoied reading your post!
did you
go on acidtrips through the states with your friends?
just
curious, dont you get the horror meeting people (normal people) while
tripping?
oh man, i cant stand people in this position and i would die if
i even
had to talk to them!
--------------sincerely
moritz rossbach
saarbruecken, germany
moro0000@stud.uni-sb.de
http://stud.uni-sb.de/~moro0000----------------
..and i tell you things that you allready
know, so you can say:
"i really identify with you....SO
MUCH!"
-Henry
Rollins: Liar
On Tue,
13 May 1997, Zach Hoon wrote:
>
david rhaesa said:
>
>i ain't certain the future is all it's cracked up to be. no offense.
>
>it seems your generation is just as capable of fucking up as the rest of
>
>us..... :)
>
> oh
definitely. i think we already have; _I_ already have. that's not really
>
what i was saying. there seems to be another group of powermad money hungry
>
kids welling up, another mid 80s hell. doesn't make so good for the future.
>
hopefully they will be beaten down. the future isn't going to be better,
>
just different, and new. because it is the future, you know. and besides,
>
back in the 60's there was a whole lot more to fuck up with (race issues,
>
war), and i don't think, after all was said and done, the fuckups on the
>
gov't side tremendous, on the little ppl side (us), close to nil. here i
>
the 90s, what? i don't even know what to call the major issues. gay lib?
>
abortion? aids? this generation/decade seems to be plagued by wackos and
>
cults: Oklahoma City, Waco, Dahmer, Heaven's Gate, Atlanta Bomber, World
>
Trade Center, Planes blowing up. Can't protest that. can't be a movement or
> a
march against that. no one knows what or when things will happen...We had
> a
3 day war that was a bunch of bullshit, not even enough time to get the
>
pickett signs made before all the laser guided missles hit the piles of
>
iraqis in the sand, in the munitions plants. lets blow up chemical weapons
>
bunkers that we _know_ are chemical weapons bunkers and contaminate all of
>
our faithful soldiers! maybe one of them will give birth to a kangaroo
>
that's really the reincarnation of Jack Kerouac! (ever see 'Tank Gir'? if
>
not, don't bother).
> So
i have a lot of respect for the protests and marches and _ambition_ of
>
those involved in the 60s. not an easy thing to do...i wish for something
> to
drive my generation into action, instead of Jenny McCarthy's boobs or
>
the next $%&^# Batman movie.
>
but oh well. i rant. apaologies.
>
> -zach
>
i'm all for it.
>
> -z
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 08:09:26 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: The horror of ken going furthur
Moritz
Rossbach wrote:
>
>
hi zach , i really enjoied reading your
post!
>
did you go on acidtrips through the states with your friends?
>
just curious, dont you get the horror meeting people (normal people) while
>
tripping? oh man, i cant stand people in this position and i would die if
> i
even had to talk to them!
>
>
--------------sincerely
> moritz rossbach
> saarbruecken, germany
> moro0000@stud.uni-sb.de
>
http://stud.uni-sb.de/~moro0000----------------
>
> ..and i tell you things that you allready
know, so you can say:
> "i really identify with you....SO
MUCH!"
> -Henry Rollins: Liar
>
> On
Tue, 13 May 1997, Zach Hoon wrote:
>
>
> david rhaesa said:
>
> >i ain't certain the future is all it's cracked up to be. no offense.
>
> >it seems your generation is just as capable of fucking up as the rest
of
>
> >us..... :)
>
>
>
> oh definitely. i think we already have; _I_ already have. that's not
really
>
> what i was saying. there seems to be another group of powermad money
hungry
>
> kids welling up, another mid 80s hell. doesn't make so good for the
future.
>
> hopefully they will be beaten down. the future isn't going to be better,
>
> just different, and new. because it is the future, you know. and besides,
>
> back in the 60's there was a whole lot more to fuck up with (race issues,
>
> war), and i don't think, after all was said and done, the fuckups on the
>
> gov't side tremendous, on the little ppl side (us), close to nil. here i
>
> the 90s, what? i don't even know what to call the major issues. gay lib?
>
> abortion? aids? this generation/decade seems to be plagued by wackos and
>
> cults: Oklahoma City, Waco, Dahmer, Heaven's Gate, Atlanta Bomber, World
>
> Trade Center, Planes blowing up. Can't protest that. can't be a movement
or
>
> a march against that. no one knows what or when things will happen...We
had
>
> a 3 day war that was a bunch of bullshit, not even enough time to get the
>
> pickett signs made before all the laser guided missles hit the piles of
>
> iraqis in the sand, in the munitions plants. lets blow up chemical weapons
>
> bunkers that we _know_ are chemical weapons bunkers and contaminate all of
>
> our faithful soldiers! maybe one of them will give birth to a kangaroo
>
> that's really the reincarnation of Jack Kerouac! (ever see 'Tank Gir'? if
>
> not, don't bother).
>
> So i have a lot of respect for the protests and marches and _ambition_ of
>
> those involved in the 60s. not an easy thing to do...i wish for something
>
> to drive my generation into action, instead of Jenny McCarthy's boobs or
>
> the next $%&^# Batman movie.
>
> but oh well. i rant. apaologies.
>
>
>
> -zach
>
> i'm all for it.
>
>
>
> -z
>
>
the key
in meeting people is simple....count to five between reacting to
anything. and remember the street isn't swirling up
like a tornado to
them
and they can't imagine that it is for you :)
but be
careful ... always be careful ... don't fall into another century
for
twenty years or something. ... unless you want to. :)
david
rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 15:06:38 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Leni Riefenstahl Re: Chaput is Kaput!
cari
beat,
Leni is 90 years old
lady,
after
the year zero...
in the
Hitler's bunker in Berlin,
Leni
Riefenstahl directed the
documentary
movie "Chaput is Kaput!"
the
move was archived by the "Enigma Blob U.S.A. Force"
now when Leni
is 90 years old
the
Beat-List recalls this great piece...
Om is
as i AM
yrs
rinaldo
p.s.
Om Om Om OM
OM OM i
om om om om am i
Am
mo mo mo mo
the hare is a HARE
a hare is a HARE a hare is a
hare
a beet is a beet
a bee is a bee Am i Am i Om i Om
oh a great HARE is knoking to
my door...
* THE (a) not competent beat
tears are in my eyes *
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 15:14:36 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Re: The horror of ken going furthur
>Return-Path:
<owner-beat-l@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 08:09:26 -0500
>Reply-To: race@midusa.net
>Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
>Subject: Re: The horror of ken going furthur
>To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>
>Moritz
Rossbach wrote:
>>
>>
hi zach , i really enjoied reading your
post!
>>
did you go on acidtrips through the states with your friends?
>>
just curious, dont you get the horror meeting people (normal people) while
>>
tripping? oh man, i cant stand people in this position and i would die if
>>
i even had to talk to them!
>>
>>
--------------sincerely
>> moritz rossbach
>> saarbruecken, germany
>> moro0000@stud.uni-sb.de
>>
http://stud.uni-sb.de/~moro0000----------------
>>
>> ..and i tell you things that you allready
know, so you can say:
>> "i really identify with you....SO
MUCH!"
>>
-Henry Rollins: Liar
>>
>>
On Tue, 13 May 1997, Zach Hoon wrote:
>>
>>
> david rhaesa said:
>>
> >i ain't certain the future is all it's cracked up to be. no offense.
>>
> >it seems your generation is just as capable of fucking up as the rest
of
>>
> >us..... :)
>>
>
>>
> oh definitely. i think we already have; _I_ already have. that's not
really
>>
> what i was saying. there seems to be another group of powermad money
hungry
>>
> kids welling up, another mid 80s hell. doesn't make so good for the
future.
>>
> hopefully they will be beaten down. the future isn't going to be better,
>>
> just different, and new. because it is the future, you know. and besides,
>>
> back in the 60's there was a whole lot more to fuck up with (race issues,
>>
> war), and i don't think, after all was said and done, the fuckups on the
>>
> gov't side tremendous, on the little ppl side (us), close to nil. here i
>>
> the 90s, what? i don't even know what to call the major issues. gay lib?
>>
> abortion? aids? this generation/decade seems to be plagued by wackos and
>>
> cults: Oklahoma City, Waco, Dahmer, Heaven's Gate, Atlanta Bomber, World
>>
> Trade Center, Planes blowing up. Can't protest that. can't be a
movement
or
>>
> a march against that. no one knows what or when things will
happen...We
had
>>
> a 3 day war that was a bunch of bullshit, not even enough time to get the
>>
> pickett signs made before all the laser guided missles hit the piles of
>>
> iraqis in the sand, in the munitions plants. lets blow up chemical
weapons
>>
> bunkers that we _know_ are chemical weapons bunkers and contaminate
all of
>>
> our faithful soldiers! maybe one of them will give birth to a kangaroo
>>
> that's really the reincarnation of Jack Kerouac! (ever see 'Tank Gir'? if
>>
> not, don't bother).
>>
> So i have a lot of respect for the protests and marches and _ambition_ of
>>
> those involved in the 60s. not an easy thing to do...i wish for something
>>
> to drive my generation into action, instead of Jenny McCarthy's boobs or
>>
> the next $%&^# Batman movie.
>>
> but oh well. i rant. apaologies.
>>
>
>>
> -zach
>>
> i'm all for it.
>>
>
>>
> -z
>>
>
>
>the
key in meeting people is simple....count to five between reacting to
>anything. and remember the street isn't swirling up
like a tornado to
>them
and they can't imagine that it is for you :)
>
>but
be careful ... always be careful ... don't fall into another century
>for
twenty years or something. ... unless you want to. :)
>
>david
rhaesa
>
>
Leni
Riefenstahl is filming yr performance mates....
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 09:02:27 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: mj smith? (kerouac connection)
hey!
if
anyone out there has mitchell j smith's - he of the _kerouac
connection_
- email address,( or mitchell, if
you're
reading
this) please contact me as i need to get a hold of him.
thanks
a bundle
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 11:39:32 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Zach Hoon <junky@BURROUGHS.NET>
Subject: Re: The korror of hen foing gurthur
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.BSD/.3.91.970513170323.17867B-100000@crystal.palace.net>
I said:
>>...
i've got friends who do them every year now, for the whole
>>
summer, and no they're not following phish or the undead dead. we know what
>>
DID happen but it's irrelevant to us because we concentrate on what CAN
>>
happen. sick of cultural recycling...Try flying from Chicago to Prague and
>>
Prague to Chicago on ecstasy there's something new...(well, kinda)
Eric
said:
>Following
phish is no more un-genuine than SPECIFICALLY not following
>phish.
>the
past is not IRRELEVANT if you want to improve the present or future.
that's
exactly what i was saying in this part of my original post:
"
like it or not,
future is where we're headed. ...*the ideas
and concepts laid down by KK and
crew,
AG, Jk, even my dear WSB need to be taken and listened to and
reapplied.*...
very few things are timeless. ideas that
affect society hardly
are, seeing that society is a fast changing
monster."
i was
trying to get across your point, that the past is indeed necessary
for
advancement, that it is food for thought, reinterpretation, etc...
>Zach,
you wrote something about -- there's too much going on now to be
>dwelling
on stuff rooted in the past -- (excuse the possible
>misinterpretation,
but i fucked up this email editing job.)
>
>Anything
one does IS what's happening NOW. This particular Prankster
>voyage
is new because it is (or at the time it just occured) was the
>present.
To say that an event is somehow not "new" or "current"
enough is
>meaningless,
assumes there is a definite predictable notion of what MUST
>go
on at any given moment in the "current" era.
here
this seems to me a basic philosophical debate, with big potential
blow-up.
past vs future vs present.I'd say if the pranksters had been
continuously
driving around tripping balls for 30 yrs, i'd look at it
differently.
But they disappear from most of the country save their areas
of
dwelling i'm sure, to resurface in the late 90s for more pranksterish
fun.
Hm. to me, this smells like marketing ploy. very few who were not
deeply
ingrained in KK and the MPs are going to think otherwise. cynicism
runs
deep this day and age. but then, i
suppose those ppl don't really
matter,
when i think about it. and i can't think of anything they're trying
to
market, so maybe i'm wrong, but i still get that feeling.
>If
they, the pranksters, want to drive around make appearences like they
>did
before, why the hell not? You dont have to avoid something just
>because
something similar has occured. And if other people are amused by
>it,
why should it bother you?
It's
not just similar, it is almost 100% the same (so i guess that's still
similar,
but very very similar). it bothers me because it seems silly and
self-demeaning.
it doesn't bother me that other ppl will get into it. they
may
have big personal connections to the whole thing.... i get a lot of
shit
for the things i'm into. sometimes i try to make them see what i see,
sometimes
i just let it be. i'm also seeing the things i love being turned
into
corporate tools to use on target markets. MTV subscribing to our
mailing
lists, showing up at our events....anyways, another subject,
another
subject. So i wouldn't go around telling ppl who participate in
this
reunion: 'hey quit livin' in the past' or anything, because, as you've
said,
their past is also their present. I just wouldn't want to live that
way.
maybe
my growing up is the reason i'm so quick to dismiss the past. even
though
fundamentals were laid down those years i feel it has little to do
with
who i am now...so maybe that affects my outlook: i took what i felt i
needed
and made it into something i need more now...
then
again, i'm only awake for half an hour, so thinking is s luggish. take
with
grain of salt.
cheers,
zach
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 11:47:00 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: The 100 Year Test
In my
musings about what's going on with these squabbles and the various
issues
I got to thinking about what any of this might mean to the world 100
years
from now. My analysis:
1).
Whether John Sampas & family get rich or not will not make a
difference.
2).
John Sampas & Jan Kerouac will probably be a small footnote in history.
3).
Gerry Nicosia may or may not be a footnote in history.
4).
Phil Chaput and Jerry Cimino and the Beat-L etc will NOT be a footnote
in
history.
5).
Whether the will was forged or not will not make a difference to
anyone.
6).
Jan Kerouac will never have seen any money as a result of the Estate
Battle
because she died in 1996.
7).
Whether Paul Blake sees any money from the estate or not will have made
a
difference to Paul Blake and his family alone.
8).
Whether Allen Ginsberg or anyone else even cared about the Estate
Battle
will not matter and probably won't even be recorded.
9).
Whether anyone "lied" about anything will not make a
difference to
anyone.
10). Whether anyone slandered anyone will not
make a difference to anyone.
11). Many items sold off in secret will not be
known by anyone.
12). Johnny Depp's heirs will probably own a
$50,000 raincoat.
13). The whereabouts of other items sold will not
be accounted for by
anyone.
14).*
Any items in public archives will be valued by scholars and Beat fans
alike.
15).*
Any items periodically or permanently put on public display will
enhance
the messages of Jack Kerouac and the Beat Generation writers.
As I
distill this down, my opinion is that the ONLY thing that is central to
any
discussion is the Archived Collection of Jack Kerouac. That means only
items
14 and 15 are central to the debate.
The Archive Collection is what is
really
important to history. Everything else
is a side issue.
I don't
think the issue should be whether an owner of any property has the
legal
right to sell it to anyone they choose.
Who can argue that? That is
the law
and we all agreed to it when we bought into our society by either
being
born here or moving here.
The
issue here though, is do John Sampas & family own these items legally?
The
concept of the will being forged is a tool.
It is a technicality that
Jan
Kerouac was able to use to challenge the ability of John Sampas to
control
her father's archives. She did not like
the idea that Sampas was
selling
off her father's items. She also discovered that her grandmother's
will
looks like it may have been forged. She
used that discovery to legally
challenge
John Sampas' right to own and control the archives. The forged
will is
simply a technicality that may allow the Jack Kerouac Archives to
stay a
national (or international) treasure.
Now the
Sampas family can only claim the will is not forged. What else can
they
say? If they agree it is forged they
know they have to give up control
of
their family fortune. And in an effort to try to placate people, to get
Jan to
back off or to gain sympathy for their position, they claim they're
taking
good care of the archives, that they want to protect it and get it all
into a
public institution. They do this in an
obvious effort to buy time.
And Jan and Gerry continue to scream bloody
murder because they believe
unaccounted
for items continue to be sold with no public knowledge of the
transactions.
Now I
don't know whether John Sampas ever told anyone he wants to get the
archives
into a public institution. I never
heard him say it and I've never
seen it
in print other than from his opponents.
But if he did commit to
getting
the archives into a public institution he should HONOR THAT
COMMITTMENT! If he said this years ago and still has not
done it he is a
dishonorable
man who was simply paying lip service to his detractors in the
hopes
they would go away.
Jan
Kerouac did go away. Gerry Nicosia has
not.
It is
the Collection that is important.
Everything else is a side issue.
Jerry
Cimino
Fog
City
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:01:37 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Zach Hoon <junky@BURROUGHS.NET>
Subject: Re: The gorror of fen koing hurthur
In-Reply-To: <3379B986.728F@midusa.net>
Moritz
Rossbach wrote:
>>
>>
hi zach , i really enjoied reading your
post!
>>
did you go on acidtrips through the states with your friends?
>>
just curious, dont you get the horror meeting people (normal people) while
>>
tripping? oh man, i cant stand people in this position and i would die if
>>
i even had to talk to them!
>>
and
david rhaesa wrote:
>
>the
key in meeting people is simple....count to five between reacting to
>anything. and remember the street isn't swirling up
like a tornado to
>them
and they can't imagine that it is for you :)
>
>but
be careful ... always be careful ... don't fall into another century
>for
twenty years or something. ... unless you want to. :)
>
>
i've
always been able to keep my finger on it in public, and i've been in
very
public places with a head full of cid: movie theaters, mini-golf
courses,
state parks, malls, grocery stores. ppl think i'm bizarre when i'm
straight
so they don't think anything of it when i'm not...the only odd
experience
i've had:
laying
on a rock high high up on a cliff in a state park with two friends,
twisted
like crazy, exchanging sunglasses because the sun looks different
through
each pair; a father with three little girls comes up and sits maybe
2 feet
away from us. this is a secluded, somewhat dangerous rock to be on.
these
kids are hoppin up and down, the father's looking at us weird and
taking
pictures of his girls...my 2 friends freak out immediately, going
off
somewhere; i laid back and stared at the sun till the kids and dad
left,
then my friends start babbling about how fucking weird that was, so i
went
down to the lake and sat down in the water till it was just up under
my
lips, till i turned into a prune. those kids had gotten to me and it was
a
little hard to deal with, as i'd been up for four days and had a fresh 2
hits in
me, so i needed the relax time...
i just
keep in mind that everyone no matter what their state, is
essentially
human. and if you think really hard, you can feel that other
humanity.
it's the only thing i've experienced i'd actually call
'profound',
and it's happened both sober and otherwise....
etc etc
zach
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 11:02:17 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: something completely different ....
since
many seem to have shifted from the all-star wrestling vernacular
to the
Joan Baez visions of perfection, i have one to throw in the ring.
does
anyone feel that list members invidually or in some collective
action
maybe a movement you never know could have success in pushing
more
beat generation literature into high school curriculi across the
America? is this a hopeless cause? seems it might slightly meet the
100
years concern meters. just a
thought. i'm not certain at all where
one
would begin or end. teaching materials
for high school level to
supplement
the beat writing would probably be helpful.
hopeful
in the Heart of Kansas
david
rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 11:03:01 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
Passion
and knowledge about a subject is not the same as scholarship. Every
'definitive'
biography of anyone is subject to new interpetration and new
vision
and new research. Textual scholarship is closer to archaeology than
to lit
crit, as I see it. I knew little about it really until coming here
and
working with Harry Hayford, who's been working on the Definitive Edition
of
Herman Melville for the last 32 years, which we publish (at great
financial
loss, I might add). In his 80's he still makes his way across
country
to the Houghton Library in Boston to pore over the original
manuscripts
as those are the only way to be sure of what was originally
written.
He would even at his age pack a weighty punch in my face if I
suggested
he work off xerox copies. He laughed himself stupid at the idea
that
scholars could work off scanned copies on the Web. If you care about
the
exactitudes of textual scholarship (not all that many do, including most
of this
list, I'm sure) then only the originals would do.
Given
that Melville died a failure and practically unknown as a writer, it's
a
miracle his manuscripts survived as well as they did, and can still be
studied
today. So few of his letters survived that even now the 'definitive'
biography
just published has huge gaps in our knowledge of him. I think all
of us
on this list would agree that JK's work will not fade away over the
coming
years, that he created something radically new and different in his
contribution
to 20th Century literature and that his work will continue to
be
studied. Proper publication of his work, and proper and professional
archiving
of his manuscripts and letters are essential to this future work,
and I
very much hope that those responsible legally for ensuring that this
happens
do their duty to us and to future generations of readers and
scholars
and to every 14 year old who picks up On The Road and is never
quite
the same again afterwards.
Nick
W-W
Is he any less a "scholar" than
>anyone
else because he hasn't published a book? His passion about this whole
>thing
is just as legitimate as anybody else's. He knows enough about Kerouac
>to
write his own book. The point of someone claiming that they are the
>world's
best anything would rankle anyone's nerves. I won't take up any more
>of
my time or the recepients of this list. I know my point is valid.The only
>way
to take issue with anybody who claims they are the best is to dispute
>that
claim. In this case it is through scholarship. E
**************************************************************************
*Nil
Carborundum Illegitimis*
It's
better to die on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List
Manager, chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax:
847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:01:00 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: [Fwd: Re: something completely different
....]
This is
a multi-part message in MIME format.
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oops
... if this becomes a thread this shouldn't be backchannel. i
imagine
that many many can provide more useful thought than i on the
"why"
question. i will ponder it for some
time and attempt to come with
some
more of a reasonable rationale. but i
could definitely use help.
for me,
it is by total accidents that i was exposed to this literature
which i
seem to identify with quite well. not
certain such exposure
should
be left to Kharma Dumbs
dbr
--------------964A0A783F
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Date:
Wed, 14 May 1997 11:58:24 -0500
From:
RACE --- <race@midusa.net>
Reply-To:
race@midusa.net
X-Mailer:
Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version:
1.0
To:
"Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@hsc.usc.edu>
Subject:
Re: something completely different ....
References:
<199705141609.JAA04847@hsc.usc.edu>
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
Timothy
K. Gallaher wrote:
>
>
Why would anyone want to push beat literature into High School?
>
good
question i suppose. and it immediately
popped into me brain that
one
could drop the beat part and still have a good question.
push
seems to be one of those joking words that is far too serious.
probably
would be a better way if things weren't pushed. but i doubt
we'll
get to that in the near future.
perhaps
i'm out of it on this. i don't know
what the "To Kill a
Mockingbird"'s
and "Great Gatsby"'s of the 90s are.
it
seems that if literature is going to be pushed on students that beat
literature
deserves its just deserts. it seems odd
to me to teach 20th
century
American literature surveys at the high school level and exclude
these
figures.
also
seems that the notion of writing fiction about real life ... not
being
constrained by oh so many rules upon rules ... my encourage
students
to take the prospect of their own writing more seriously.
part of
me says why ask why and sips another sip of coffee, while
another
part seriously says that the question deserves some thought. i
promise
to put some into it.
david
rhaesa
--------------964A0A783F--
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 10:02:43 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: The 100 Year Test
....
>Now
I don't know whether John Sampas ever told anyone he wants to get the
>archives
into a public institution. I never
heard him say it and I've never
>seen
it in print other than from his opponents.
But if he did commit to
>getting
the archives into a public institution he should HONOR THAT
>COMMITTMENT! If he said this years ago and still has not
done it he is a
>dishonorable
man who was simply paying lip service to his detractors in the
>hopes
they would go away.
>
>Jerry
Cimino
>Fog
City
>
Dear
Jerry: May 13, 1997
Thanks for writing an even better, and
shorter, summary than the one
I tried
to do the past two days.
There's very little I can add to
this. I think you have once for
all
stilled Mr. Anstee's claim that I am doing this for fame and fortune.
As you
point out, saving Jack's archive is not going to get me much of a
footnote
in history. If I get a footnote, I'll
have to earn it with the
things
I write. I made a start with MEMORY
BABE. Hopefully HOME TO WAR
will
add a bit to that footnote. Since I'm
not an old man, I may live to
write
quite a few more books (and to see some of my unpublished books
published),
God willing, and that will be my footnote.
Now as for Mr. Sampas's statement of
his intentions, here's the
evidence:
On May 17, 1994 (three years ago), Jan
Kerouac gave her press
conference
in New York to announce the filing of her lawsuit against the
Sampases. George Tobia, Mr. Sampas's lawyer, showed up
uninivited, and
asked
for an opportunity to speak to the press.
Although Jan was not
obligated
to give him the microphone, she did, and he spoke for several minutes.
HERE IS A DIRECT QUOTE FROM MR. TOBIA
(ON TAPE, WHICH I HAVE):
"THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS THAT
THE ESTATE HAD ARE ALL IN PUBLIC
ARCHIVES. A LOT OF THEM ARE IN THE NEW YORK PUBLIC
LIBRARY, I THINK SOME
ARE IN
NYU ..."
Jan Kerouac interrupts: "Have you
seen them personally?"
Mr. Tobia: "I HAVE NOT. NO.
I JUST STARTED TO INQUIRE AS TO THIS,
BUT
THIS IS THE INFORMATION I HAVE. TO MY
KNOWLEDGE, NONE OF THOSE
MANUSCRIPTS
HAVE BEEN SOLD [to private collectors]...."
[The testimony of Jeffrey Weinberg,
Mr. Sampas's former dealer,
contradicts
this.]
Mr. Tobia goes on to say:
"THERE ARE IMPORTANT NOTEBOOKS
AND SO FORTH. I HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN
THOSE
NOTEBOOKS IN THE ESTATE, AND THEY ARE NOT BEING CUT UP PIECEMEAL OR
SOLD
PIECEMEAL OR WHATEVER. I HAVE SEEN
THEM. THEY ARE BEING CARED FOR,
AND THE
VIEW ABOUT WHAT'S TO BE DONE WITH THOSE IS TO HAVE THEM PLACED IN
THE
PROPER PUBLIC FACILITY FOR ALL TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF. THEY'RE NOT TO BE
SOLD.
"THE SAME THING WITH THE
PAINTINGS AND DRAWINGS. THEY ARE IN
FACT
GOING
TO BE ON DISPLAY THIS WEEK AT A COUPLE OF GALLERIES HERE IN NEW YORK.
ALL OF
THE PAINTINGS AND DRAWINGS HAVE BEEN PRESERVED, AND AGAIN, THEY'RE
BEING
SHOWN THIS WEEK, AND EVENTUALLY WILL BE PLACED IN THE CUSTODY OF SOME
UNIVERSITY
OR SOME OTHER ARCHIVE."
Please note: Mr. Tobia was wrong about
the paintings and drawings
too. I held in my hand a drawing by Kerouac that
was sold by Sampas to San
Francisco
dealer Richard Marcel. Also, several
Kerouac paintings have been
offered
by dealers in recent years. Since
Kerouac never sold--or to my
knowledge,
even gave away--any of his paintings, I must assume these
paintings
were sold originally by John Sampas.
A day or two later, after I gave a
talk on MEXICO CITY BLUES at
NYU's
Beat conference, several people in the audience engaged me in a
discussion
about the Kerouac Estate, and asked why Mr. Sampas would not put
all of
Kerouac's manuscripts into a library for study.
Mr. Sampas, who was in the audience, stood up and spoke to the
audience
himself. (This was taped by the
university, but I do not
personally
have a copy.) Mr. Sampas said (as I
recall from memory):
"Everything
is already in the New York Public Library."
I then said, "Mr. Sampas, you're
not telling the truth. I just
spoke
to the librarians at the New York Public Library, and they don't have
anywhere
near the entire Kerouac Archive."
Mr. Sampas then yelled, rather
gruffly: "YOU don't have any business
talking
to the New York Public Library! THAT'S
MY BUSINESS!" And he
proceeded
to leave the room with his small group of friends.
For the record, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:19:34 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MARK NIGON
<Mark_Nigon@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput! -Reply
Comments:
To: nweir-w@NWU.EDU
>>>
Nick Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU> 05/14/97 11:03am >>>
He would even at his age pack a weighty punch
in my face if I
suggested
he work off xerox copies. He laughed himself stupid at the
idea
that
scholars could work off scanned copies on the Web. If you care
about
the
exactitudes of textual scholarship (not all that many do, including
most
of this
list, I'm sure) then only the originals would do.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
**Nick,
Quick
question for you. How are the
"exactitudes of textual
scholarship"
diminished by working off copies (xerox
or the Web)? Not
trying
to be a smart-ass, just don't understand.
Thanks,
-Mark
MARK_NIGON@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 19:33:54 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Jack Kerouac (read by Johnny Depp)
In-Reply-To:
<s379adda.026@mail.campbell-mithun.com>
Mexico
City Blues
"Chorus
113"
Jack
Kerouac
(read
by Johnny Depp)
Got up
and dressed up
went
out & got laid
Then
died and got buried
a
coffin in the grave,
Man --
Yet
everything is perfect,
Because
it is empty,
Because
it is perfect
with
emptiness,
Because
it's not even happening.
Everything
Is
Ignorant of its own emptiness--
Anger
Doesn't
like to be reminded of fits--
You
start with the Teaching
Inscrutable
of the Diamond
And end
with it, your goal
is your
startingplace,
No race
was run, no walk
of
prophetic toenails
Across
Arabies of hot
meaning
you just--
numbly
don't get there
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:43:23 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: John Mitchell
<mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>
Subject: Re: The horror of ken going furthur
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970514151436.010af00c@pop.gpnet.it>
>>but
be careful ... always be careful ... don't fall into another century
>>for
twenty years or something. ... unless you want to. :)
>>
>>david
rhaesa
>>
>>
>Leni
Riefenstahl is filming yr performance mates....
rinaldo--isn't
the title something like Triumph of the Quills (Swills?
Pills? Last Wills and Testaments? //John M.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 11:57:15 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Nick Weir-Williams
<nweir-w@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput! -Reply
You
can't read them properly - lots of the annotations are pencilled in, and
they
don't photocopy or scan that well - you can see what might have been
erased,
date the paper, that type of thing. That's what I'm told anyhow.
Obviously
though only bona-fide scholars are allowed to do this - originals
reatc
badly to light, especially neon, and the paper can crumble. For the
likes
of you and me, it would be fine. But it's a great deal of interest ot
scholars,
especially when dealing with writers who had an unusual style, to
try and
piece together the writing process - how each draft changed, how
those
changes were made etc. The 'original' Joyce Ulysses was significantly
different
from the one first published. My guess would be that drafts of
many of
JK's books read very differently. IF there's a suggestion being made
(I'm
not quite sure that there is) that the plan is to let scholars look at
copies
while the originals are sold off for big bucks, that would be
unfortunate.
BTW,
one of the big problems scholars see with computers is that all those
early
drafts of the great works of the future will be lost as all the
drafting
is done on screen. So take it carefully with that delete key, folks
Nick
>
>
>>>>
Nick Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU> 05/14/97 11:03am >>>
> He
would even at his age pack a weighty punch in my face if I
>suggested
he work off xerox copies. He laughed himself stupid at the
>idea
>that
scholars could work off scanned copies on the Web. If you care
>about
>the
exactitudes of textual scholarship (not all that many do, including
>most
>of
this list, I'm sure) then only the originals would do.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>
>**Nick,
>
>Quick
question for you. How are the
"exactitudes of textual
>scholarship"
diminished by working off copies (xerox
or the Web)? Not
>trying
to be a smart-ass, just don't understand.
>
>Thanks,
>
>-Mark
>MARK_NIGON@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM
>
>
**************************************************************************
*Nil
Carborundum Illegitimis*
It's
better to die on your feet than to live on your knees
Nick
Weir-Williams
Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
List
Manager, chipub listserv
ph: 847 491 8114
fax:
847 491 8150
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 19:48:17 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Leni Riefenstahl a woman in photography
In-Reply-To:
<970514114650_1457705917@emout19.mail.aol.com>
http://www.repubblica.it/cultura_scienze/leni/leni/leni.html
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 10:56:08 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Research in special collections
>. Gerry is right again when he says there's no
substitute for an original manu
>script
if you're doing certain kinds of specialized textual research. Most of
>the
time, however, a facsimile or photo copy or downloaded text will do just fi
>ne.
>
-- Bill Gargan
Dear
Bill, May 14, 1997
Of course if I'm researching in New
Delhi I'd be happy to get a
Kerouac
text on the World Wide Web, and the Web has the advantage, with
digitalization,
of absolute fidelity to the original. I
have not, by the
way,
heard anyone suggest that Mr. Sampas bothered digitalizing images of
all the
Kerouac writings he sold. For many
researchers, xeroxes of
Kerouac's
writings are all they'll ever get to see.
But let me tell you, I had plenty of
trouble doing my research at
Columbia,
specifically because they would always trot out xeroxes of
Kerouac's
letters, many of which were hand-printed in his famous fading
pencil. Their motive was good--they were trying to
protect the originals
from
the wear and tear of too much use. But
many times I could not make out
whole
portions of the text on the xerox, and I had to demand that they bring
out the
originals--promising, of course, that I would handle them with kid
gloves.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 14:00:48 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput! -Reply
In-Reply-To:
<199705141743.AA234041817@lulu.acns.nwu.edu>
On Wed,
14 May 1997, Nick Weir-Williams wrote:
>
BTW, one of the big problems scholars see with computers is that all those
>
early drafts of the great works of the future will be lost as all the
>
drafting is done on screen.
There
are programs out there which allow for the recording of every
keystroke
in order -- writers just have to be aware of & use them. Even more
useful
(one of my dreams, actually), is recording keystrokes & useful _time_
information,
so that the pace of a writer's typing is recorded!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 11:23:11 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput!
At
12:27 AM 5/14/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Gerald
Nicosia wrote:
>
> So they send on someone like Chaput instead,
who has nothing to lose.
>> Best always, Gerry Nicosia
>
>what
evidence is there for this claim.
similar claims have been made in
>others
letters. i could check the archives i
suppose. my preference
>would
obviously be a negotiated settlement, but i don't understand
>phrases
like this which seem to pop up in your letters quite often. it
>reflects
something of what Hofstadter called the Paranoid Style.
>Perhaps
i'm incorrect, but to this point i've seen no data provided in
>any
of your arguments to support such claims.
i hope that the kerouac
>collection
is not hanging on such a theory of conspiracy given the
>weakness
of the form of argumentation within the field of judicial
>reasoning.
>
>just
wondering in kansas .... :)
>
>david
rhaesa
>
>
Dave, May 14, 1997
What I meant is this. Stephen Hawking is arguing with another
astrophysicist. The other astrophysicist suddenly says,
"The moon is made
of
green cheese." The other
astrophysicist is either marked as loony or
forever
loses his credibility in the astrophysics community.
However, suppose Hawking is talking
with Chaput, and Chaput says,
"The
moon is made of green cheese."
Chaput doesn't lose his professional
credibility, because he has
none in
astrophysics.
My point is that if Ann Charters were
on the Beat List saying it
doesn't
matter that Kerouac's archive is being split up, xeroxes are just as
good,
etc., she'd lose all professional credibility.
She doesn't dare do
that,
and that's why she hasn't appeared here (even though she works for
Sampas).
Chaput says he "sees Sampas
around." Every argument he's
brought
against
me in the past two weeks has already been used either by Sampas
himself,
his lawyers, or Ann Charters over the past three years. I feel
like
I'm replaying an old, old chess game with him.
Now how does Chaput
know
all this stuff? The only people who
remember the moves of the game
that exactly
are the ones who played it.
You may consider that circumstantial
evidence, but people have been
sent to
the gallows on circumstantial evidence, if it's strong enough.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 14:33:08 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Weinberg <Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The 100 Year Test
Dear
members of the Beat-L:
I want
to quickly take a few moments to make one important point.
In as
much as Gerald Nicosia and a few other people have passionately stated
their
respective opinions concerning the Kerouac archives, over the past few
weeks
and even today, these people say things in their email messages to this
group
that just are not true. These untruths start out as rumors. Gerry (who
admitted
last week that he sometimes goes "from memory")
posts
wrong information and then someone else picks it up as true.
Here
are some examples:
1.
Gerry writes today that John Sampas sold Richard Marcel a drawing by Jack
Kerouac.
This is not true. I'd like to add that
the
drawing is a sketch with no significant meaning to anything else from the
archive
- it's a table napkin drawing, if you will.
I can't
understand how a simple sketch affects the integrity of the archive.
2.
Johnny Depp never paid $50,000 for a raincoat.
But Jerry C. keeps on
bringing
up a $50,000 raincoat purchase. Nicosia mentioned it last week and
now
everyone thinks it really happened. What Depp bought and how much he paid
for
what he bought isn't the business of anyone except those involved with
the
transaction. Where Kerouac's old clothes end up is really not an issue
regarding
the archive. Jerry C. is correct about that certainly. But the
price
tag of $50K for a raincoat is bullshit.
3. In a
posting a few weeks ago, Gerry Nicosia wrote that I let someone know
explicit
details about all the sales that took place.
Gerry
and I discussed this error on his part and he corrected himself on the
Beat-L
later on. The other day I was surfing around and discovered Jo Grant's
web
page on which he is running Nicosia's piece about the JK archives. In
that
essay, the same error that Gerry took back later on is still there on Jo
Grant's
page.
I wrote
Jo Grant and asked him to remove the error written about me. His
response
to me was that he hasn't had time yet. He's been too busy. The man
knows
it's a lie and doesn't have time to remove it??
So, my
friends, please keep your heads level during this Estate debate.
Remember
that not every detail thrown at you by members of either side will
always
be the truth. I do not believe that it is Gerry Nicosia's intent to
mislead
us in any way. But he relies on his memory too much still without
checking
the facts. So rumors and untruths continue to circulate. And that is
my
point.
Thanks
for reading this -
Jeffrey
Weinberg
Water
Row Books
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 14:52:12 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Julie Hulvey <JHulvey@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Overview, Part One
In a
message dated 97-05-12 15:00:01 EDT, you write:
<<
Dear Beat-List folks: May 12,
1997
A few days ago there was a post from
Leon Tabory, deporing the "very
tasteless, rude" interruption that I had
caused in his daily reading of
Beat-List postings, by precipitating a flood
of Estate Fight messages.
(snip snip - enough already!!!!) I do believe that,
after six years' work on a major biography,
the only critical biography, of
Kerouac, and many more years writing articles
and lecturing about the Beats
at libraries, bookstores, and not a few
universities, I earned a right to
speak out here for a couple of weeks.
<<<
Perhaps
it's not *that* you are here, but *how* you are here.
>>
Mr. Rod Anstee, who seems to have disappeared from the list, was
actually one of the prime causes of my
appearance here. Since 1983 (if
memory serves right) Mr. Anstee has been
contacting me for help with his
writing projects. Then Mr. Joe Grant informed
me etc. etc. etc.
spy
versus spy (I sigh)
>> This brings me round to the BIG ISSUE, which
all the smoke and
mirrors from amateur (but persistent)
magician Phil Chaput have sought to
obscure.
I refer to Phil as an amateur not to put him down, but to clearly
reveal his credentials, just as I have now
revealed Anstee's.
Phil Chaput is not recognized as a
scholar anywhere, to the best of
my knowledge. <<<
Lucky
for him, perhaps he can avoid the dangers of scholarship that others
have
not.
>>
I am recognized as a preeminent literary and Kerouac scholar
around the world. My point is not to boast; my point is only this: that I
certainly know a lot more about the
requirements of literary scholarship
than Mr. Chaput. <<
This
isn't the first time I've seen it on a maillist: Some expert
amiably
"asks" or "offers" to discuss something, relatively sure
that someone
will disgree with them...in fact, asking for
it! And whoever steps forward
to do
so becomes an excuse to pour forth the "pet diatribe" which was
prepared
long before.
If the disagreer persists, credentials are
compared.
>>
Can you imagine trying to doing meaningful textual analysis of
Kerouac--or a study of the development of his
composition process--without
access to ANY of those books in their
original form(s)? IMPOSSIBLE!!! Yet
that is the situation Kerouac scholars find
themselves in today.
<<
So I
should worry about these poor Kerouac scholars who are either scratching
each
others eyes out or stabbing each other in the back, or else busy
changing
our little corner of cyberspace into a
weeks-long info-mercial ?
It is
to laugh!
Julie
(no scholar - don't bother checking)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:00:45 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: The 100 Year Test
>
>1.
Gerry writes today that John Sampas sold Richard Marcel a drawing by Jack
>Kerouac.
This is not true. I'd like to add that
>the
drawing is a sketch with no significant meaning to anything else from the
>archive
- it's a table napkin drawing, if you will.
>I
can't understand how a simple sketch affects the integrity of the archive.
>
>2.
Johnny Depp never paid $50,000 for a raincoat.
But Jerry C. keeps on
>bringing
up a $50,000 raincoat purchase. Nicosia mentioned it last week and
>now
everyone thinks it really happened. What Depp bought and how much he paid
>for
what he bought isn't the business of anyone except those involved with
>the
transaction. Where Kerouac's old clothes end up is really not an issue
>regarding
the archive. Jerry C. is correct about that certainly. But the
>price
tag of $50K for a raincoat is bullshit.
>
(Jeffrey Weinberg)
Dear
Jeffrey, May 14, 1997
I welcome your corrections. There is no doubt that you are one of a
half
dozen people who know more about Sampas's sale of Kerouac archival
pieces
than anyone else on the planet.
But I am puzzled. Why do you say Marcel's purchase of the
drawing
from
Sampas is "not true." Of
course, Marcel dealt with YOU as the
intermediary,
but the seller was obviously John Sampas, the owner of all
these
Kerouac pieces.
Moreover, my memory is that it was an
actual drawing on paper, not a
"bar
napkin."
Why isn't an actual drawing
significant? Besides, I brought it up
only as
evidence that what Mr. Sampas's lawyer George Tobia said--that NO
ARTWORK
HAD BEEN SOLD--was inaccurate.
Besides, what about the Kerouac paintings that keep turning up in
bookseller
catalogues? There was one in a Lopez
catalogue a while back,
called,
I think "Smerdyakov Serenading (Someone)," and priced at around ten
thousand
dollars.
As for the fifty thousand dollar price
tag, it was in the papers and
also
told to me by Johnny Depp's brother Dan Depp, who runs a bookstore in
Santa
Cruz. Dan is very close to his brother,
they travel together a lot,
and so
I figured he knew what he was talking about.
Sorry about Joe Grant. He doesn't "work for me," as the
Sampases
claim,
and I don't have much control about what he puts up or takes off,
though
I have sent him material periodically, and the piece he has up now
was
given him a couple of years ago. That
seems to be the problem with a
lot of
these Web postings. Levi Asher has kept
up a piece I gave him about
the
1994 NYU Beat conference, which is obviously several years out of date.
This whole thing is like a big mystery
story that keeps unraveling,
and
with each week and each month, we learn more than we knew before. It
wouldn't
have to be a mystery, however, if Mr. Sampas would just come clean
with
all the facts and figures right now--tell us what he's sold to whom,
what he
intends to do with the rest, and when he intends to do it.
Best always, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 15:09:30 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jerry Cimino
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The 100 Year Test
Hi
Jeffrey,
Thanks
for the clarification regarding the raincoat.
I consider the
situation
regarding the raincoat a minor side issue, and while I may have
passed
along an inaccuracy regarding the amount paid, I don't believe there
is any
dispute that the raincoat was in fact purchased by Depp. Whether he
paid $5
or $5M is not a concern of mine. But to
call my comments an untruth
because
I'm not privy to the exact amount is a fine point at best.
Jeffrey,
you say Gerry writing that John Sampas sold Richard Marcel a drawing
is
"not true". You state the
"drawing is a sketch with no significant
meaning"
as it is a "table napkin drawing". So what is it? Is it true he
sold a
table napkin sketch? You're playing
with semantics here. In my mind
a
sketch and a drawing are the same thing!
Jefferey,
you're playing loose with the facts and what is truth here. You're
in a
position to know details most of the rest of us are not in a position to
know. Unless you're willing to share those details
don't accuse others of us
who
comment on what we believe to be fact as telling "untruths". Did Depp
buy the
raincoat or not? If he did then saying
I'm telling an "untruth"
because
he didn't pay exactly $50,000 for it is a cheap shot. Did Marcel buy
a
"napkin sketch" by JK or not?
If he did then don't say Nicosia is telling
an
"untruth" because he called it a drawing!
Jeffrey,
you been very quiet regarding this entire situation for two weeks
now and
I can respect that if that's the position you want to take. As a
dealer
I can understand you wanting to keep quiet on certain transations etc.
But don't you dare accuse me of telling an
"untruth" because you happen to
know
the exact purchase price for the raincoat and I don't! If you know
details
about the raincoat, correct me if I'm "incorrect", but I am offended
by you
saying this is an "untruth". It makes it sound like I am
intentionally
lying
and you know damn well I am not!
Jerry
Cimino
Fog
City
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 14:49:58 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bob Fox <bfox@SIU.EDU>
Subject: KICKS JOY DARKNESS
I want to thank B. Sorensen for his
mention of Eric Andersen and
his
contribution to the Kerouac CD. I think
that track is one of the best
on the
disc, but then perhaps I'm also biased, since I've known Eric for so
long:
he and I were high school buddies and performed in a folk group. His
dad--an
engineer--turned me on to writers like Dos Passos; I was already
into
the Beats, as well as Kerouac's early literary god, Thomas Wolfe.
Later,
before he dropped out of Hobart College to pursue a fulltime career
as a
singer-songwriter, Eric used to ride freight trains up to see Cornell
University
to me and we'd swap songs and poems.
I consider Eric to be one of America's
great troubadours, though I
guess
he's better known in Europe these days.
His beat connection is made
clear
in the title song from his album GHOSTS UPON THE ROAD (Gold Castle,
1989),
in which he refers to Dean Moriarty and later says, "And ramblin
Jack
was wild but Lowell Jack was first and I still shiver from the words .
.
." JK and the very early Elvis (in
his Sun Records days) probably were
most
responsible for setting Eric on his own "road."
His work dates back to the early
1960s; he was coming up in the
Village
in New York when Dylan made his breakthrough.
(If Dylan was a
musical
Ginsberg, Eric was a musical Rimbaud.)
His first wife, Debbie
Green,
was reputed to have taught Joan Baez to play guitar. One night in
his
loft there was a legendary jam session featuring Eric Clapton, Jimi
Hendrix,
and John Hammond, Jr. (those were the days!).
At one point The
Beatles'
manager, Brian Epstein, was interested in Eric, but then Epstein
died. Other people--Judy Collins, Peter Paul &
Mary, The Blues Project,
Linda
Ronstadt, etc.--covered his songs successfully. His career has had
its ups
and downs but he's never achieved the level of fame he deserves.
His
best album, without a doubt, is BLUE RIVER (Columbia, 1972--still
available,
on cd). GHOSTS UPON THE ROAD may rank
second. STAGES: THE LOST
ALBUM
(Columbia, 1991) was to have followed BLUE RIVER, but the master
tapes
were lost for nearly twenty years!
Another interesting disc is his
collaboration
with Rick Danko of The Band and the Norwegian
singer-songwriter
Jonas Fjeld, recorded in Europe where they toured
together
a few years ago: DANKO/FJELD/ANDERSEN (RYKO, 1993).
Robert
Elliot Fox
Associate
Professor
Department
of English
Southern
Illinois University at Carbondale
Carbondale,
Illinois 62901
618-453-6864
bfox@siu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 16:12:46 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "M. Cakebread"
<cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: KICKS JOY DARKNESS (NBC - a related question to a post)
At
02:49 PM 5/14/97 -0500, Robert Elliot Fox wrote:
>Another
interesting disc is his collaboration with Rick
>Danko
of The Band and the Norwegian singer-songwriter
>Jonas
Fjeld, recorded in Europe where they toured
>together
a few years ago: DANKO/FJELD/ANDERSEN
>(RYKO,
1993).
I've
heard through the grapevine that Danko was
recently
arrested in Japan for receiving a package
of
heroin in the mail, can anyone confirm this
rumour?
Thanx,
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 17:08:18 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: Re: something completely different ....
Comments:
To: RACE --- <race@midusa.net>
In-Reply-To: <3379E209.458C@midusa.net>
an
admirable cause no doubt, but i don't know if this is such a great
idea.
at a high school level, at least in terms of my
for-just-few-fucking-more-weeks-will-i-havetosay-ongoing
highschool
experience,
having beat lit taught in a structured school situation would
be a
disaster. though it would create more exposure, i think Beat stuff
would
be better served for "Optional" assignments rather than the core
curriculum.
i still think a lot of highschool english is prostituted
pounding
strict nonsense into the minds of the silly kiddies style of
teaching
and this might, as i see it, ruin some of the effect of, say,
discovering
On the Road when suggested by a friend youtrust.
who
knows,
Eric
On Wed,
14 May 1997, RACE --- wrote:
> since
many seem to have shifted from the all-star wrestling vernacular
> to
the Joan Baez visions of perfection, i have one to throw in the ring.
>
>
does anyone feel that list members invidually or in some collective
>
action maybe a movement you never know could have success in pushing
>
more beat generation literature into high school curriculi across the
>
America? is this a hopeless cause? seems it might slightly meet the
>
100 years concern meters. just a
thought. i'm not certain at all where
>
one would begin or end. teaching
materials for high school level to
>
supplement the beat writing would probably be helpful.
>
>
hopeful in the Heart of Kansas
>
>
david rhaesa
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 17:13:42 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Robert H. Sapp"
<rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET>
Subject: waste of comp time Re: Chaput is Kaput!
In-Reply-To:
<199705141823.LAA12073@sweden.it.earthlink.net>
Wait a
sec, hold on now Gerry!
Are you
insinuating that the moon ISNT made of green cheese?
awl be
damned,
Eric
On Wed,
14 May 1997, Gerald Nicosia wrote:
> At
12:27 AM 5/14/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Gerald Nicosia wrote:
>
>
>
> So they send on someone like
Chaput instead, who has nothing to lose.
>
>> Best always, Gerry
Nicosia
>
>
>
>what evidence is there for this claim.
similar claims have been made in
>
>others letters. i could check the
archives i suppose. my preference
>
>would obviously be a negotiated settlement, but i don't understand
>
>phrases like this which seem to pop up in your letters quite often. it
>
>reflects something of what Hofstadter called the Paranoid Style.
>
>Perhaps i'm incorrect, but to this point i've seen no data provided in
>
>any of your arguments to support such claims. i hope that the kerouac
>
>collection is not hanging on such a theory of conspiracy given the
>
>weakness of the form of argumentation within the field of judicial
>
>reasoning.
>
>
>
>just wondering in kansas .... :)
>
>
>
>david rhaesa
>
>
>
>
>
Dave, May 14, 1997
>
> What I meant is this. Stephen Hawking is arguing with another
>
astrophysicist. The other
astrophysicist suddenly says, "The moon is made
> of
green cheese." The other
astrophysicist is either marked as loony or
>
forever loses his credibility in the astrophysics community.
> However, suppose Hawking is talking
with Chaput, and Chaput says,
>
"The moon is made of green cheese."
> Chaput doesn't lose his professional
credibility, because he has
>
none in astrophysics.
> My point is that if Ann Charters were
on the Beat List saying it
>
doesn't matter that Kerouac's archive is being split up, xeroxes are just as
>
good, etc., she'd lose all professional credibility. She doesn't dare do
>
that, and that's why she hasn't appeared here (even though she works for
>
Sampas).
> Chaput says he "sees Sampas
around." Every argument he's
brought
>
against me in the past two weeks has already been used either by Sampas
>
himself, his lawyers, or Ann Charters over the past three years. I feel
>
like I'm replaying an old, old chess game with him. Now how does Chaput
>
know all this stuff? The only people
who remember the moves of the game
>
that exactly are the ones who played it.
> You may consider that circumstantial
evidence, but people have been
>
sent to the gallows on circumstantial evidence, if it's strong enough.
> Best, Gerry Nicosia
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 17:17:40 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>
Subject: Re: something completely different ....
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.BSD/.3.91.970514170227.21198B-100000@crystal.palace.net>
On Wed,
14 May 1997, Robert H. Sapp wrote:
> i
still think a lot of highschool english is prostituted
>
pounding strict nonsense into the minds of the silly kiddies style of
>
teaching and this might, as i see it, ruin some of the effect of, say,
>
discovering On the Road when suggested by a friend youtrust.
Totally
exactly. Beat stuff is still fresh -- it's still more relevant than
older
lit in certain ways for certain things, and I think teaching it in
schools
takes out the bite and maybe even misses the point. Personally I'd
rather
see an end to schools. Kids could learn more from an uninhibited
Internet
connection than they could thru obsolete teaching methods anyway.
Now
_that_ would be a Beat crusade I could get into.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 16:27:23 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: MARK NIGON
<Mark_Nigon@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM>
Subject: Re: something completely different ....
-Reply
Comments:
To: rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET
Eric,
Good
point, but I don't think an early exposure to the Beats is going to
turn
young students off. Some students are
going to love it and others
will
read it like they read the back of a cereal box and say, "Yeah, so
what?" I don't think having OTR suggested by a trusted
friend
guarantees
the reader will like it either. I've
suggested Beat pieces
to
friends and they come back with, "While I like it, it just didn't do
anything
for me." I for one would have
loved being introduced to Beat
Gen
writers as a HS student. Now that I
think about it, maybe you're
onto
something with the "Optional assignment" route. But then again my
opinions
on this subject were formed because I had instructors that took
an
active part in my education and opened my mind (and left it open)
rather
than fill it with "strict nonsense" and blather.
Crunching
numbers when I'd rather be writing.
-Mark
MARK_NIGON@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM
>>>
"Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET> 05/14/97 04:08pm
>>>
an
admirable cause no doubt, but i don't know if this is such a great
idea.
at a high school level, at least in terms of my
for-just-few-fucking-more-weeks-will-i-havetosay-ongoing
highschool
experience,
having beat lit taught in a structured school situation
would
be a
disaster. though it would create more exposure, i think Beat stuff
would
be better served for "Optional" assignments rather than the core
curriculum.
i still think a lot of highschool english is prostituted
pounding
strict nonsense into the minds of the silly kiddies style of
teaching
and this might, as i see it, ruin some of the effect of, say,
discovering
On the Road when suggested by a friend youtrust.
who
knows,
Eric
On Wed,
14 May 1997, RACE --- wrote:
>
since many seem to have shifted from the all-star wrestling vernacular
> to
the Joan Baez visions of perfection, i have one to throw in the
ring.
>
>
does anyone feel that list members invidually or in some collective
>
action maybe a movement you never know could have success in pushing
>
more beat generation literature into high school curriculi across the
>
America? is this a hopeless cause? seems it might slightly meet the
>
100 years concern meters. just a
thought. i'm not certain at all
where
>
one would begin or end. teaching
materials for high school level to
>
supplement the beat writing would probably be helpful.
>
>
hopeful in the Heart of Kansas
>
>
david rhaesa
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 15:07:07 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput! -Reply
At
12:19 PM 5/14/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>>>
Nick Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU> 05/14/97 11:03am >>>
> He
would even at his age pack a weighty punch in my face if I
>suggested
he work off xerox copies. He laughed himself stupid at the
>idea
>that
scholars could work off scanned copies on the Web. If you care
>about
>the
exactitudes of textual scholarship (not all that many do, including
>most
>of
this list, I'm sure) then only the originals would do.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
>
-----
>
>**Nick,
>
>Quick
question for you. How are the
"exactitudes of textual
>scholarship"
diminished by working off copies (xerox
or the Web)? Not
>trying
to be a smart-ass, just don't understand.
>
>Thanks,
>
>-Mark
>MARK_NIGON@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM
Mark, May 14, 1997
I don't doubt Nick can answer for
himself, there are certainly a
variety
of reasons, but let me just offer the preeminent one in my mind:
Copies are made by human beings using technology. Human beings are
fallible. The guy making the copies just broke up with
his girl or has a
stomach
ache or just flunked his exams and is so preoccupied he forgets to
copy 20
pages out of the middle somewhere. Or
the copy machine is feeding
on a
slant and cuts off the end words of the bottom two lines of each page.
Chaput claimed this was far-fetched,
but in my experience it's more
the
rule than the exception.
We today have hundreds of different
versions of each of
Shakespeare's
plays. At least one of the reasons for
this is that each guy
that
copied them put in and left out different things. AND, OF COURSE, WE
DON'T
HAVE SHAKESPEARE'S ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS TO GO BACK AND CHECK WITH.
(No, I'm not suggesting John Sampas
sold those off too.)
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 18:51:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Krackowack Jack
In a
message dated 97-05-14 14:28:54 EDT, Gerry Nicosia writes:
<< My point is that if Ann Charters were on the
Beat List saying it
doesn't matter that Kerouac's archive is
being split up, xeroxes are just as
good, etc., she'd lose all professional
credibility. She doesn't dare do
that, and that's why she hasn't appeared here
(even though she works for
Sampas). >>
I don't
think that Ann Charters is working for John Sampas as a maid anymore.
I
believe she is working at a college,
maybe as a janitor.
hee hee
hee
Please,
let's stop saying who is working for Sampas all the time. Ann
Charters
wrote the first biography of Kerouac and I don't think that Sampas
hired
her at that time. She had been hired by Sampas to edit the Kerouac
Letters
book (volume 2 as well). The Letters
books don't state - Written by
Ann Charters, they say Edited by Ann
Charters. Editors edit. I don't
believe
she engages in many social get-togethers
or cocktail hours with John
Sampas.
She was, and may still be, teaching at a college. She is a Professor,
writer,
etc. I don't think her resume says "Work for Sampas".
As far
as who should be talking to us on the BEAT L list, the answer is
whoever
wants to. Mr. Nicosia, I'm sorry but it's not up to you to demand
that
Ann, or John Sampas use this venue to air their positions. The fact that
you
have made yourself available is fine, but it is your own decision.
As far
as Phil Chaput is concerned, I know him and he's a nice guy. His
interest
in Kerouac is personal. His father was a good friend of Kerouac's.
He is
voicing his own opinions here. If someone disagrees with him, please
disagree
with the point. Whether he is or is not a Sampas crony is irrelevant
to the
argument. I don't think that Phil has ever represented himself as a
Sampas
spokesman and I think the reason is because he is not. And just
because
Phil did buy me a beer once (thanks Phil), please don't label me as a
Phil
crony.
As far
as Lowell Celebrates Kerouac committee is concerned, who they invite
is up
to them. [I was on the committe for 1 year.] The committee was set up
primarily
to help establish the Kerouac Commemorative in Lowell. Now they
have
yearly events in October to celebrate Kerouac. There is no requirement
to
invite anybody. Cost of the speaker, theme of the event, determines who
gets invited.
Themes have included Kerouac and Sports, International Kerouac,
Kerouac's
Spirituality etc. So far, they have not had Kerouac and the Estate
War as
a theme. If they do, maybe then they could consider inviting Gerry.
Does
John Sampas have some influence there? Yes, and he has also provided the
committee
with photos for posters and money. Does
he control it? No.
And
while I personally think it was wrong not to invite Jan to a Lowell
event,
I have to be blunt here-- I don't feel that there was a requirement to
invite
Gerry Nicosia. Gerry always claims that
both he and Jan have a right
to be
included in certain events. That it was a package deal that both He and
Jan get
invited. I don't think it's up to him to demand that they be invited
to
particular events. I don't remember being invited to quite a few events
that I
thought I should be part of. So it goes.
Take
life easy, and life becomes easier
enjoy,
Attila
PS:
Gerry - One thing that you and I are in total agreement with (isn't that
incredible)
is that the old growth forest in the Headwaters should not be cut
down. I
was just told by one of the forestors who works for Pacific Lumber,
that
clear cutting is ecologically more sound then select cut.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 19:02:19 -0600
Reply-To: stand666@bitstream.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: R&R Houff
<stand666@BITSTREAM.NET>
Subject: Tom Clark
Hello
Dave,
The Tom
Clark benefit mystery has been solved. I talked with him at
length
about the benefit, and when he looked into it he came up with
another
(REAL) Tom Clark. Apparently an "Old Beat" dying with AIDS.
We were
both confused on the "Beat" thing and surprised to find another
T.C.
out there writing under that name. With medical bills
soring
the upward it's good to see benefits for people who can't afford
the
battle. I had to build the front part of a splint from
hardware
store PVC for my kids broken shin because the insurance com-
pany
wouldn't cover that part of the splint-and that's where the break
happened!
The accident took place last week-they told me to give him
Tylenol;
pretty medieval...oh well, fuck 'em.
Richard
Houff
Pariah
Press
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 17:59:09 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: something completely different ....
-Reply
At
04:27 PM 5/14/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Eric,
>Good
point, but I don't think an early exposure to the Beats is going to
>turn
young students off. Some students are
going to love it and others
>will
read it like they read the back of a cereal box and say, "Yeah, so
>what?" I don't think having OTR suggested by a
trusted friend
>guarantees
the reader will like it either. I've
suggested Beat pieces
>to
friends and they come back with, "While I like it, it just didn't do
>anything
for me." I for one would have
loved being introduced to Beat
>Gen
writers as a HS student. Now that I
think about it, maybe you're
>onto
something with the "Optional assignment" route. But then again my
>opinions
on this subject were formed because I had instructors that took
>an
active part in my education and opened my mind (and left it open)
>rather
than fill it with "strict nonsense" and blather.
>
>Crunching
numbers when I'd rather be writing.
>-Mark
>
>MARK_NIGON@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM
>
>>>>
"Robert H. Sapp" <rhs4@CRYSTAL.PALACE.NET> 05/14/97 04:08pm
>>>
>an
admirable cause no doubt, but i don't know if this is such a great
>idea.
at a high school level, at least in terms of my
>for-just-few-fucking-more-weeks-will-i-havetosay-ongoing
highschool
>experience,
having beat lit taught in a structured school situation
>would
>be
a disaster. though it would create more exposure, i think Beat stuff
>would
be better served for "Optional" assignments rather than the core
>curriculum.
i still think a lot of highschool english is prostituted
>pounding
strict nonsense into the minds of the silly kiddies style of
>teaching
and this might, as i see it, ruin some of the effect of, say,
>discovering
On the Road when suggested by a friend youtrust.
>
>who
knows,
>Eric
>
>On
Wed, 14 May 1997, RACE --- wrote:
>
>>
since many seem to have shifted from the all-star wrestling vernacular
>>
to the Joan Baez visions of perfection, i have one to throw in the
>ring.
>>
>>
does anyone feel that list members invidually or in some collective
>>
action maybe a movement you never know could have success in pushing
>>
more beat generation literature into high school curriculi across the
>>
America? is this a hopeless cause? seems it might slightly meet the
>>
100 years concern meters. just a
thought. i'm not certain at all
>where
>>
one would begin or end. teaching
materials for high school level to
>>
supplement the beat writing would probably be helpful.
>>
>>
hopeful in the Heart of Kansas
>>
>>
david rhaesa
>>
>
>
you
guys all make sound observations, and I have to say, I agree with most,
if not
all. (sounds like I'm running for public office) anyway, yeah,
having
someone "turn you on" like the way it happened for me, is life
changing
at the very least, however, what changed my life most was my great
luck to
have teachers in HIGH SCHOOL that exposed me to great lit and
poetry. THAT IS WHAT CHANGED MY LIFE! meeting the beats/kerouac in my mid
20's
just drove the shit home for me and sent me further down a path it
seemed
I was already on. I think that teaching OTR could be of great value
not
just as lit, but to also view it in terms of the impact it had on
national
and global culture at the time of its publication on thru to the
present
as witnessed here on this list and elsewhere.
doubt very seriously
that
little else might make it past the mind cops mental meat grinder
because
of direct connect to drugs and sex. OTR
has reference to the same,
however,
not quite as bold, and in light of everything that has come down
the
pike since, pretty damned lightweight if you ask me, but then I'm just a
silly
romantic ya know? by the by, I have in
my little circle of things
here in
L.A. met quite a few younger folks (high school age) that consume it
all and
we older types do all that we can to educate them as well as they
educate
us. this is most desirable of all.
xxxooo
s.a.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 18:06:16 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: "s.a. griffin"
<perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chaput is Kaput! -Reply
At
11:57 AM 5/14/97 -0500, you wrote:
>You
can't read them properly - lots of the annotations are pencilled in, and
>they
don't photocopy or scan that well - you can see what might have been
>erased,
date the paper, that type of thing. That's what I'm told anyhow.
>Obviously
though only bona-fide scholars are allowed to do this - originals
>reatc
badly to light, especially neon, and the paper can crumble. For the
>likes
of you and me, it would be fine. But it's a great deal of interest ot
>scholars,
especially when dealing with writers who had an unusual style, to
>try
and piece together the writing process - how each draft changed, how
>those
changes were made etc. The 'original' Joyce Ulysses was significantly
>different
from the one first published. My guess would be that drafts of
>many
of JK's books read very differently. IF there's a suggestion being made
>(I'm
not quite sure that there is) that the plan is to let scholars look at
>copies
while the originals are sold off for big bucks, that would be
>unfortunate.
>
>BTW,
one of the big problems scholars see with computers is that all those
>early
drafts of the great works of the future will be lost as all the
>drafting
is done on screen. So take it carefully with that delete key, folks
>
>Nick
>
>>
>>
>>>>>
Nick Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU> 05/14/97 11:03am >>>
>>
He would even at his age pack a weighty punch in my face if I
>>suggested
he work off xerox copies. He laughed himself stupid at the
>>idea
>>that
scholars could work off scanned copies on the Web. If you care
>>about
>>the
exactitudes of textual scholarship (not all that many do, including
>>most
>>of
this list, I'm sure) then only the originals would do.
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----------
>>
>>**Nick,
>>
>>Quick
question for you. How are the
"exactitudes of textual
>>scholarship"
diminished by working off copies (xerox
or the Web)? Not
>>trying
to be a smart-ass, just don't understand.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>-Mark
>>MARK_NIGON@MAIL.CAMPBELL-MITHUN.COM
>>
>>
>**************************************************************************
>*Nil
Carborundum Illegitimis*
>It's
better to die on your feet than to live on your knees
>
>Nick
Weir-Williams
>Director,
Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208
>President,
Illinois Book Publishers Association
>List
Manager, chipub listserv
>
>ph: 847 491 8114
>fax:
847 491 8150
>
I
imagine as well, if some fool with a grudge, or just for kicks actually,
could
access/hack the material and possibly alter it. stranger things have
happened.
xxxooo
s.a.