=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 02:42:32 -0400
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From: "Dean M. Palmer"
<dean_palmer@JUNO.COM>
Subject: A break from the Kerouac controversy....
Hey
Beat Folks--
I have just finished 'One Flew Over The
Cukoo's Nest' and have heard
Kessey
referred to as Beat on the list so I figure this falls under the
jurisdiction
of this list. I loved that book! Great. Fantastic. Excellent
read.
What do you folks think of it..and..is it a
good indicator of Kessey's
other
work? (as I am unfamiliar this being his forst I have read)
Dean Palmer
/\/\/\/\/\~Dean_Palmer@juno.com~/\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/\/\/\~Funny
English Joke; man and wife in living room, phone rings,
man
answers and says he wouldn't know, better call the coast guard, and
hangs
up, wife says, "Who was it, dear?" and man says, "I don't know,
some
damn fool who
wanted
to know if the coast was clear." har-har-har (Neal
Cassady)~/\/\/\/\/\
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 06:03:25 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the nest
Dean M.
Palmer wrote:
>
>
Hey Beat Folks--
> I have just finished 'One Flew Over The
Cukoo's Nest' and have heard
>
Kessey referred to as Beat on the list so I figure this falls under the
>
jurisdiction of this list. I loved that book! Great. Fantastic. Excellent
>
read.
> What do you folks think of it..and..is it a
good indicator of Kessey's
>
other work? (as I am unfamiliar this being his forst I have read)
>
> Dean Palmer
>
>
/\/\/\/\/\~Dean_Palmer@juno.com~/\/\/\/\/\
>
/\/\/\/\/\~Funny English Joke; man and wife in living room, phone rings,
>
man answers and says he wouldn't know, better call the coast guard, and
>
hangs up, wife says, "Who was it, dear?" and man says, "I don't
know,
>
some damn fool who
>
wanted to know if the coast was clear." har-har-har (Neal
>
Cassady)~/\/\/\/\/\
I loved
Cuckoo's nest but had trouble following it through the fogs at
time. i enjoyed the movie too. Once in the Hospital with five nurses
trying
to calm me I suddenly (not intentionally) broke out of it and
asked
the nurses if I was doing better than Jack??
Recently i saw the
story
on the KEY-Z webpage (or a story) about the origin of the narrator
Chief
Bromden. I immediately found the book
in the piles and began
reading
it again. Suddenly with this insight
and the insight of
multiple
hospitalizations in less intrusive but sometimes parallel
mental
units, the novel is a joy to read again.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 09:16:58 -0400
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From: William Morgan
<Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>
Subject: Kerouac question
Dear
Gerry:
Hoping
you won't mind a non-Sampas question.
I'm putting together a walking
tour of
Kerouac's New York and wanted to include a statement concerning
Jack's
arrest after the Kammerer murder. Would
it be correct to say that
Kerouac
was arrested for "failing to report a crime" or that he was
arrested?/held
"as a material witness".
Which do you think is right?
Anyone
else is
welcome to comment too.
Thanks,
Bill
Morgan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 09:08:19 -0500
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From: Patricia Elliott
<pelliott@SUNFLOWER.COM>
Subject: Re: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING
well
said Jerry/
i have appreciated the time and care people
have takin trying to
explain
the history and the confusions on the estate matter, I even
appreciated
the blows of email from rinaldo, after those, either
complicated
or nasty postings, those desperate one liners were a
break.. I have thought the vindictiveness and
namecalling shown was
what
was better left to the latter stages of alcohlism. but i am a tea
totler.
I thought it was interesting when some one said they were glad
jk was
dead, so not to see this. maybe it is
some sort of anger
connected
to jk giving so much in literature and vision and then killing
himself
with alcohol. I have always felt that
he had a long drawn out
type of
death, where his drunkeness and bitterness and helplessness
created
a series of deaths.
I have
no personal knowledge but the assault of fame on his
sensibilities
seemed to wound him so.
I wish
that at the heart of the debate was just money, not the scraps
and
heart of jacks' legacy. I wish that
poor jan was treated by her
fathers
fans with more dignanty and that fellow in the trailer living at
his
neighbors had a shake of luck.
what i
have heard of stella and her family was that they knew a
different
jack than neal did. I would quess if
the "will" was forged a
adjustment
of ownership would happen but i wish i could see any window
for
righting wrongs.
The real prisoner is the manuscripts. The
real villian is probably the
money.
But once a promise to a dying woman is made it makes compromise
hard to
reach, making a new promise to jack might make it easier.
I was
totally screwed cheated, threatened out of my last job by two sick
do
nothings, and i saw them destroy things that i had worked years on
and i
honestly felt hatred and wished for justice. well a year later
when i
asked my mother what she wanted for her birthday , she said to
forgive
them. now she didn't mean hang out with bad guys or to excuse
them
but to forgive them. I was aghast, they had even insulted her
during
the fracas. But i am finding ways to do
it. I resented losing
the
money, usually gave a lot to charity. so now i volunteer a little
more
and am looking up charities in the various states unclaimed
property
accounts. I examine the obstacles between me and freedom and
start
kicking away at them.
p
I had
not heard the Edie K had died, when did that happen?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 08:27:12 -0600
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From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the
nest
Comments:
To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
In-Reply-To: <336F0FFD.40F3@midusa.net>
ah
always blown away by cuckoos nest alrigt. and the movie is a peice of
pure
genius as well (i thin thta kesey said hes never seen it tho) one
thhing
that really exposed how kesey wrote was the critcal edition of
cuckoos
nest as well as _kesey_ which i think is avail from www.key-z.net
or
something like that. explains how early drafts and sections (black boys
coming
for me and all) written on lsd in hosp ( ithink) and has sketches
of the various
characers to help him get handle of where they're going,
etc.
one touch i always loved was the neal/randle connection... randle
patrick
mcmurphy = R.P.M. (rotations per minute) = fastest man alive
(neal)??
anyway
yr rigt grand piece o lit.
derek
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 10:01:08 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the
nest
Derek
A. Beaulieu wrote:
>
> ah
always blown away by cuckoos nest alrigt. and the movie is a peice of
>
pure genius as well (i thin thta kesey said hes never seen it tho) one
> thhing
that really exposed how kesey wrote was the critcal edition of
>
cuckoos nest as well as _kesey_ which i think is avail from www.key-z.net
> or
something like that. explains how early drafts and sections (black boys
>
coming for me and all) written on lsd in hosp ( ithink) and has sketches
> of
the various characers to help him get handle of where they're going,
>
etc. one touch i always loved was the neal/randle connection... randle
>
patrick mcmurphy = R.P.M. (rotations per minute) = fastest man alive
>
(neal)??
>
anyway yr rigt grand piece o lit.
>
derek
from
what I read at Key-Z, he had no narrator and then had an
hallucination
of this Indian and thought ... "now i have a narrator" or
something
to that effect. .. . :)
david
rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 11:23:05 -0400
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From: Jeffrey Weinberg
<Waterrow@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dr. Sax vs. Last of the Moccasins
In a
message dated 97-05-05 23:31:35 EDT, you write:
<<
know that someone may have asked this before but after an unsuccessful
attempt to locate the Last of the Moccasins
in a bookstore, I was
wondering if it is still in print, and can it
be ordered from any
bookstore?
Diane Carter
>>
Dear
Diane and Fellow Beat-L members:
You can
order Charlie Plymell's book "Last of the Moccasins" from me here a t
Water
Row Books.
The
paper edition is $12.00
and we
have hardcover copies signed by Charles Plymell for $20.00
Mention
the Beat-L and shipping is free..
MC/Visa
accepted. Satisfaction guaranteed....
Thanks
-
Jeffrey
Weinberg (Charlie's cousin),
Water
Row Books
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 10:12:24 -0700
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From: Levi Asher
<brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Levi's Question
In-Reply-To: <336EAD00.60CD@cruzio.com> from
"Leon Tabory" at May 5,
97 09:01:04 pm
Leon
wrote:
> I
still have some nagging questions though about whether your opponents
>
are given to do things that you would not. I asked you this morning to
>
clarify your answer to Levi's question. Since you didn't answer, I went
>
back over it to see if can tell better what you said. The only
>
conclusion that I can come to is that you are suggesting that Levi
>
wanted you to release material to the public, but that you couldn't do
> it
for legal reasons. Are you saying that Levi wanted you to do
>
something illegal, that you explained to him that you couldn't do it
>
because it was illegal, and that he still wanted you to do it? I just
>
don't believe that of Levi.
I think
I can clear this confusion up -- when Gerry and I referred
to
"legal reasons" in our posts we were not talking in terms of
whether
an act was illegal or not, but whether an act would
be
legally unwise or not -- specifically, that by letting me
publish
Jan's excerpt Gerry for free would be exposing himself to
criticism
that he was being lax with Jan's estate, which could be
used
against him by others claiming rights to the estate.
I hope
we can put aside that whole side-issue, anyway. As for the
deeper
issues, I remain agnostic.
------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
###################################
"Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
-- Bob Dylan
-----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 10:24:31 -0700
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From: Gerald Nicosia
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Using the Brain God Gave You
Lay awake last nite thinking about
Anstee's advice that "it's too
complex--don't
try to sort it out--don't try to judge."
It reminded me of
what
the hawks used to say during the Vietnam War: "Don't try to understand
the war
in Vietnam--it's wrong to protest it--the guys in Washington [read:
Mr.
Sampas & Co.] know what they're doing--just wait and see."
I.e., wait and see while another
10,000 guys get killed and maimed
this
month [wait and see while yet more Kerouac pieces get sold off]. But
those
of us in the Antiwar Movement used our COMMON SENSE, which told us
that
killing people was wrong, whether or not we knew and understood all the
inner
secrets of the thing; and I urge you to use COMMON SENSE in this affair.
My common sense says that Jack
Kerouac's archives should be
preserved
and made accessible now ["Bring the troops home--NOW!"] You don't
have to
listen to mine--why should you?--but, please, LISTEN TO YOUR OWN.
You
don't need to go on a wild goose chase for some supposed cache of secret
documents
that Mr. Anstee would like to send you on--some supposed PENTAGON
PAPERS
of the Kerouac Estate Fight, which exists nowhere that I know
of--except
perhaps in the desk drawer where Mr. Sampas keeps his financial
records--and
there's no way any of you are ever going to get to that.
THE POINT OF THIS, by the way, is not
that selling off a writer's
papers
is as bad as making war--IT'S NOT, BY A LONG SHOT. The point is: you
can
often use your common sense to tell you things the experts can't.
Best, Gerry Nicosia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 13:47:45 EST
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
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From: MORE OXY THAN MORON
<breithau@KENYON.EDU>
Subject: Re: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the
nest
As far
Kesey goes, my favorite is SOMETIMES A GREAT NOTION. I don't think this
is a
book for everyone but I love the language he uses, the story, everything.
It's a
whopper too, you can re-read it every year! Set in the logging towns of
the
pacific northwest, it makes great use of the landscape in descriptive
detail
as head union hauncho, Hank Stamper, does not give in to the big
corporate
badguys! Give it a try, not nearly as commercial as CUCKOO'S NEST
(which
I also loved).
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 15:17:12 -0400
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From: "Dean M. Palmer"
<dean_palmer@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the
nest
>
one touch i always loved was the neal/randle connection... randle
>patrick
mcmurphy = R.P.M. (rotations per minute) = fastest man alive
>(neal)??
Did Kessey know Cassady at the time? Was
Randle based on Cassady? It
seems
like it....
Dean Palmer
/\/\/\/\/\~Dean_Palmer@juno.com~/\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/\/\/\~Funny
English Joke; man and wife in living room, phone rings,
man
answers and says he wouldn't know, better call the coast guard, and
hangs
up, wife says, "Who was it, dear?" and man says, "I don't know,
some
damn fool who
wanted
to know if the coast was clear." har-har-har (Neal
Cassady)~/\/\/\/\/\
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 13:58:18 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the
nest
In-Reply-To:
<19970506.151712.18022.0.dean_palmer@juno.com>
ive
heard the story both ways that kesey did know cassady and that rpm is
based
on him, and ive also heard something along the lines that kesey haad
finished
the book at cassady went to him, showing up at his house
unannounced
after the book was published. maybe someone closer to neal
(leon,
charles, etc) or kesey could give us some details. how 'bout it
gang?
any one wanna be the definitive word?
yrs
derek
On Tue,
6 May 1997, Dean M. Palmer wrote:
>
>
> one touch i always loved was the neal/randle connection... randle
>
>patrick mcmurphy = R.P.M. (rotations per minute) = fastest man alive
>
>(neal)??
>
> Did Kessey know Cassady at the time? Was
Randle based on Cassady? It
>
seems like it....
> Dean Palmer
>
>
/\/\/\/\/\~Dean_Palmer@juno.com~/\/\/\/\/\
>
/\/\/\/\/\~Funny English Joke; man and wife in living room, phone rings,
>
man answers and says he wouldn't know, better call the coast guard, and
>
hangs up, wife says, "Who was it, dear?" and man says, "I don't
know,
>
some damn fool who
>
wanted to know if the coast was clear." har-har-har (Neal
>
Cassady)~/\/\/\/\/\
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 16:01:54 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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Comments: QAA27720 on bay (hop 0), Tue, 6 May 1997
16:01:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Randi Jaclyn Friedman
<rfiedma@GROVE.UFL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chimes at Midnight
Comments:
To: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
In-Reply-To: <33588527.768B@midusa.net>
please
will someone tell me how to get off this list server. It is messing
up my
entire inbox messages. There are just too many emails for me to read
. So
,if you are in charge of this please
help me get out of this
RAndi
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 15:02:20 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the
nest
Derek
A. Beaulieu wrote:
>
>
ive heard the story both ways that kesey did know cassady and that rpm is
>
based on him, and ive also heard something along the lines that kesey haad
>
finished the book at cassady went to him, showing up at his house
>
unannounced after the book was published. maybe someone closer to neal
>
(leon, charles, etc) or kesey could give us some details. how 'bout it
>
gang? any one wanna be the definitive word?
>
yrs
>
derek
>
> On
Tue, 6 May 1997, Dean M. Palmer wrote:
>
>
>
>
> > one touch i always loved was the neal/randle connection... randle
>
> >patrick mcmurphy = R.P.M. (rotations per minute) = fastest man alive
>
> >(neal)??
>
>
>
> Did Kessey know Cassady at the
time? Was Randle based on Cassady? It
>
> seems like it....
>
> Dean Palmer
>
>
>
> /\/\/\/\/\~Dean_Palmer@juno.com~/\/\/\/\/\
>
> /\/\/\/\/\~Funny English Joke; man and wife in living room, phone rings,
>
> man answers and says he wouldn't know, better call the coast guard, and
>
> hangs up, wife says, "Who was it, dear?" and man says, "I
don't know,
>
> some damn fool who
>
> wanted to know if the coast was clear." har-har-har (Neal
>
> Cassady)~/\/\/\/\/\
>
>
maybe
Cassady was based on RPM ??? :)
dbr
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 22:26:16 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: b
just i
came in the computer room,
i'm the guy who switch the light,
now i can write,
just i
came in the computer room,
i'm the guy who switch the light,
now i can write,
"Derek
A. Beaulieu"
Patricia
Elliott
Leon
Tabory
James
Stauffer
RACE
---
now i must to switch off
the vedova's crab is
can caught me,
nighttime save me,
open yes open eyes
beat
beetle
beet
bee
be
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 22:26:13 +0200
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: One Flew OVER the nest.
be
beat!,
reading
the newspaper,
fernanda pivano 80 years old today,
the lay in the terrific
foto...
talks
'bout the beat:
""The
evening that I have met Cassidy, the protagonist of "On The Road"
by Jack
Kerouac, after any very amusing passed hour together,
he
accompanied me in hotel and wanted to climb, normal era.
But I
explained him that I slept only always. Cassidy looked at me
lunatic
like ditches: "you don't drink, you don't smoke, you don't fuck.
But
because have you wanted to know me?" - fernanda pivano then writes:
"All
my friends beat lived for the unemployed person of the subsidies,
200&
or 300$ to the month that they allowed him to survive.
They
drank much tea.""
one,
two,
three,
tutti giu' per terra!
*a not
competent beet*
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 22:26:14 +0200
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Ken Kesey
be
beat! be beat!! be beat!!!
after
"One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" wrote another
wonderful
book i read in 70's 'bout hobo lifes, it's
a
wonder, but i missed a bunch of things...
* the
beet *
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 22:49:34 +0200
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
be
beat! check this site, please,
http://www.repubblica.it/cultura_scienze/ginsberg/ginsberg/ginsberg.html
rinaldo.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 14:33:23 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Comments:
To: One@cruzio.com, Two@cruzio.com, Three@cruzio.com,
Four@cruzio.com, Flew@cruzio.com,
OVER@cruzio.com, the@cruzio.com,
nest@cruzio.com
Derek
A. Beaulieu wrote:
>
>
ive heard the story both ways that kesey did know cassady and that rpm is
>
based on him, and ive also heard something along the lines that kesey haad
>
finished the book at cassady went to him, showing up at his house
>
unannounced after the book was published. maybe someone closer to neal
>
(leon, charles, etc) or kesey could give us some details. how 'bout it
>
gang? any one wanna be the definitive word?
>
yrs
>
derek
Not a
definitive word. I do recall though having driven with Neal to
Kesey's
place some time before the book was out. Neal brought me a copy
when it
first came out to look at. I recall Neal telling me about how
Ken was
writing while high on acid working at the VA hospital in Palo
Alto. I
don't recall dates, but it was when I still lived at the Cassady
(your
spelling is correct) home. To the best of my recollection, and I
think I
would have remembered, Neal did not think it was based on him.
Leon
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 14:55:06 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Comments:
To: "Reppublica Italiano"@cruzio.com
Rinaldo
Rasa wrote:
>
> be
beat! check this site, please,
>
>
http://www.repubblica.it/cultura_scienze/ginsberg/ginsberg/ginsberg.html
>
>
rinaldo.
> .-
Another
great picture! Interesting how much you can understand in a
foreign
language when you know what they are talking about.
What's
happening to the Italian language?:
> 35
MINUTI DI VIDEO IN WINDOW MOTION
Ciao
amici
Leon
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 18:27:11 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 5 May 1997 20:00:32 -0400
from
<Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>
Let me
say that I think the estate battle is certainly an appropriate
topic
for the list. Anyone who doesn't want
to read about it can delete
those
posts. I'm not sure, however, that anything
that anyone has to
say on
the list will make any difference as far as the outcome goes. I
haven't
seen the will and wouldn't know whether or not it was authentic
if I
did. If the parties involved can't come
to some agreement--and it
certainly
looks like they never will--then it is up to the courts to
decide. We can all have our opinions but they aren't
going to decide
anything.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 17:32:21 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING
Bill
Gargan wrote:
>
>
Let me say that I think the estate battle is certainly an appropriate
>
topic for the list. Anyone who doesn't
want to read about it can delete those
posts.
I may
have mistyped if it seemed that i was suggesting that the estate
questions
were inappropriate. it would have been
easy to read that into
my
comments. i meant something else -- i
think.
david
rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 17:40:40 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Ginsberg]
This is
a multi-part message in MIME format.
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thought
this might seem of interest to those on the list.
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Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:11:31 GMT
Reply-To:
The Bob Dylan Discussion List <HWY61-L@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender:
The Bob Dylan Discussion List <HWY61-L@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
From:
Ness908 <ness908@AOL.COM>
Organization:
AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: Ginsberg
To:
HWY61-L@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
Since
we are on the subject of condeming people for their wrong doings as
far as
the Christian belief goes. Let me start
by saying, yes Allen
Ginsberg
was gay from birth, he had very little control over it and felt
guilty
and spent two or three years trying to disown his desires. He grew
up with
a psycopathic mother and had a lot going on in his mind. After he
figured
out his life, he began to express it's hard bearing on his keeping
it all
in. He wrote thousands of amazing poems
and with the help of other
Beatniks,
he changed the world from their blinding propaganda of the
fifties
into a very liberal and anti war ideal of the sixties. Without
Ginsberg,
Bob Dylan wouldn't have had the courage to Think Twice about the
way
anything was. Don't condem Dylan for
respecting a great man who
brought
us to the realization that the The Times Are A Changin', even
before
Dylan himself did. Don't judge this
great man for his so called "
Evil
Earnigs For Young Boys" don't get me wrong, I don't think that it's
right
by any means to crave people of the same sex, but I do know that it
happens
and until we really understand it, no one should be going around
saying
that there's no excuse for it.
If you
want to think that evil is evil for no reason and use the Bible to
make up
for your hatered then go right ahead, but the only great leason
that I
get out of the Bible is that you should love those who you don't
understand
and pray for their sins. I'm only
sixteen but I feel like I've
got a
hell of a better understanding about this than most of you do.
Feel
free to E Mail me about this or any Dylan related stuff, I'm glad to
be
tested in the area of Dylan Trivia.
Thanks,
Nathan
--------------770F2C706431--
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:47:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Jake Barnes is beat (was "More
on dope")
In a
message dated 97-05-04 19:54:52 EDT, you write:
<<
the beat is a beet
the beat is a beet
the beat is a beet
the beat is a beet
the beat is a beet >>
I don't
think there is anything rong wit doooope, do you?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:47:51 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>
Subject: ORIGINAL vs COPY
Just an
aside, what would happen if copies of
all of Kerouac's papers end up
in a
Library, and the originals are sold off to the highest buyer (or
whoever).
Is it
enough to just have the words-- complete, that are accessible to the
public?
DO the originals have to be available?
This is
a philosophical question.
enjoy,
Attila
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 15:39:27 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Comments:
To: "THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING"@cruzio.com
Bill
Gargan wrote:
>
>
Let me say that I think the estate battle is certainly an appropriate
>
topic for the list. Anyone who doesn't
want to read about it can delete
>
those posts. I'm not sure, however,
that anything that anyone has to
>
say on the list will make any difference as far as the outcome goes. I
>
haven't seen the will and wouldn't know whether or not it was authentic
> if
I did. If the parties involved can't
come to some agreement--and it
>
certainly looks like they never will--then it is up to the courts to
>
decide. We can all have our opinions
but they aren't going to decide
>
anything.
> .-
In the
end the court of public opinion may have its own conclusions,
regardless
of the outcome in a court of law. It might be very
interesting
after all is said and done to ask for the opinions of the
BEAT-L
people, what percentage concurs, how many think the will was
forged,
etc..
Leon
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 20:14:30 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac question
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 6 May 1997 09:16:58 -0400
from <Ferlingh2@AOL.COM>
Good
question, Bill. I always thought he was
held as "a material witness."
Ma
ybe I
got it from the newspaper clips. If
Gerry, doesn't have an answer I'll b
e glad
to do some digging.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 20:28:08 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Using the Brain God Gave You
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 6 May 1997 10:24:31 -0700
from
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
Ah
c'mon Gerry, the estate battle is VERY important but you can't compare it to
the
Vietnam War and whatever Rod is doing, he's not getting anybody killed. Ta
lk
about ad hominem arguments!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 20:32:41 EDT
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Bill Gargan
<WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Using the Brain God Gave You
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 6 May 1997 10:24:31 -0700
from
<gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>
My
apologies, Gerry. Once again I jumped
the gun. Reading your post a
second
time, I see that we agree after all.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 21:01:59 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac question
At
08:14 PM 5/6/97 EDT, you wrote:
>Good
question, Bill. I always thought he was
held as "a material witness."
Ma
>ybe
I got it from the newspaper clips. If
Gerry, doesn't have an answer I'll b
>e
glad to do some digging.
>
>Wasn't
he held for aiding and abetting a felon because he helped get rid of
the
knife? Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 18:55:32 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Using the Brain God Gave You
At
08:28 PM 5/6/97 EDT, you wrote:
>Ah
c'mon Gerry, the estate battle is VERY important but you can't compare it to
>the
Vietnam War and whatever Rod is doing, he's not getting anybody killed. Ta
>lk
about ad hominem arguments!
>
>
Didn't
you read Nicosia's post.
He
began this by writing this
"It
reminded me of what the hawks used to say during the Vietnam War"
Notice
he said "it reminded me?" Not
"it is just like".
He
ended with this to make sure people would understand (it's called
telegraphing)
"THE
POINT OF THIS, by the way, is not that selling off a writer's
papers
is as bad as making war--IT'S NOT, BY A LONG SHOT."
Have
you ever heard of this thing called an anology or a metaphor?
BTW, I
am too young to remember the Vietnam War and that controversy, but
off the
top of my head it seems that the rationale and well meaning of those
who did
fight the vietnam war (the hawk position)is much much much
infinitely
higher than some guy trying to use his aunt's inheritance to make
a buck
fast off something that really does belong to the readers of the world.
The
Hawks at least were trying to protect people from great evil. Even
Ginsberg
in his old age admitted he was wrong about the Viet Cong and didn't
know
they would be so bad.
remember
all the world is a stage.
(is
Shakespeare seriously comparing the thousands of square miles of the
earth
to the few meters that is in a theater's stage?)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 18:56:30 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Timothy K. Gallaher"
<gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Using the Brain God Gave You
At
08:32 PM 5/6/97 EDT, you wrote:
>My
apologies, Gerry. Once again I jumped
the gun. Reading your post a
>second
time, I see that we agree after all.
>
>
Boom,
and I
didn't read this post before I wrote my reply
barn
doors open wide
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:37:45 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the
nest
My
favorite too, but you've got it wrong.
The union guys are the bad
guys,
Hank Stamper is an independant, non union, mostly family operator
who
refuses to bow to union pressure. But
great characters and
language. Probably one of the reasons I spent a lot of
years working in
the
woods myself. The movie made of the
book with Paul Newman is less
satisfactory. Kesey wrote two damn good novels with
"Notion" and
"Cuckoo". The things that have come later have been
mostly
disappointing
to me, but I haven't read Sailor's Song.
J
Stauffer
MORE
OXY THAN MORON wrote:
>
> As
far Kesey goes, my favorite is SOMETIMES A GREAT NOTION. . . . Set in the
logging towns of
>
the pacific northwest, it makes great use of the landscape in descriptive
>
detail as head union hauncho, Hank Stamper, does not give in to the big
>
corporate badguys!
>
Dave B.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:43:15 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the
nest
Dean,
I am
not sure exactly when Cassidy first started coming around Kesey but
it was
during the period that Kesey was living at Perry Lane near
Stanford,
working at the VA Hospital in Menlo Park and writing the book.
Whether
Cuckoo was already a work in progress of not, I don't know, but
it is
hard not to see at least some Cassidy in Randle tho I think Randle
is more
a creation of Kesey's using bits from Neal than the Cassidy
characters
Kerouac did.
J
Stauffer
Dean M.
Palmer wrote: . .
>
> Did Kessey know Cassady at the time? Was
Randle based on Cassady? It
>
seems like it....
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:50:27 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leslie Diane Hurst
<n9442280@SCOOTER.CC.WWU.EDU>
Subject: Kerouac's arrest
Comments:
To: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
In-Reply-To: <336FEAD3.582A@pacbell.net>
In Ann
Charter's compilation of JK's selected letters, she comments that
is was
as a material witness that he was arrested.
Leslie:)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:58:58 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac's arrest
But now
that we all have been made aware that Anne Charters is only a
paid
stooge of John Sampas we need to look pretty skeptically at this.
I think
John Sampas done it.
James
Leslie
Diane Hurst wrote:
>
> In
Ann Charter's compilation of JK's selected letters, she comments that
> is
was as a material witness that he was arrested.
>
Leslie:)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 20:09:16 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Comments:
To: "Levi's Question"@cruzio.com
>
> I
think I can clear this confusion up -- when Gerry and I referred
> to
"legal reasons" in our posts we were not talking in terms of
>
whether an act was illegal or not, but whether an act would
> be
legally unwise or not -- specifically, that by letting me
>
publish Jan's excerpt Gerry for free would be exposing himself to
>
criticism that he was being lax with Jan's estate, which could be
>
used against him by others claiming rights to the estate.
On
reading a subsequent post Gery got that explanation across to me
also.
Still the fact remains that he is condemning his opponents who
also
use their judgment as to what to do with what is theirs to do with.
I could
say that this is only an excuse. That in fact he would have
followed
the wishes that Jan epxressed, and especially since he would
not
have profitted from carrying out her clearly stated wishes for the
public
good, it is not likely that such action would provide cause in a
court to
remove him. But he chose the action that was denying the public
access,
and kept the material under his private control. That is what he
accuses
his opponents of doing. These were not legal considerations,
they
were judgment calls, justifying his preferences.
This is
the only place where I see reason not to get carried away with
his
self righteousness. I see much to admire in him as a writer, as a
devoted
advocate, but I am not sure he is not carrying his flag a bit
too
high, hitting others over their heads with it.
That
does not excuse the uglier actions of the legal heirs, and in my
mind it
is not unlikely that they might have forged the will. Luckily
for me
I do not have to make consequential decisions with the limited
knowledge
that I have. Neither do I see excuses for Jack Kerouac's
treatment
of Jan, some of his friends, including Neal in San Quentin or
later
when he should have been forthcoming with some financial
assistance
for one example.The five dollars to Neal who used his meagwer
resources
to travel to New York to see him, was really an insult.
So, if
we look at the lives of heroic figures in their spheres of
action,
we find quite a bit of dirt clinging to theit feet on other
walks
on other roads. Whatever it is that we think, or Gerry wants
everybody
to think, Jack could have very easily left his literary
properties
to public egencies, if that is what he wanted to do with it.
Like
Jan wanted to do. But he didn't.
>
> I
hope we can put aside that whole side-issue, anyway. As for the
>
deeper issues, I remain agnostic.
>
It is
the deeper issues only that I am very much interested in. Gery has
been a
big help, even if I am not convinced that his motives are pure
while
his opponents are evil.
I am
quite willing to leave things alone.
BTW
Levi, you are reminding me that I meant to write to you. I wanted to
tell
you how highly John Cassady speaks of you. I didn't bring your name
up to
him. In telling me how he felt about things that are going on, he
made it
a point to tell me with great enthusiasm, how highly he thinks
of you.
I am repeating myself. You might also be interested to hear that
his son
looked very, very well. He told me that he feels that his
responsibility
to the legacy of his grandpa is "just awesome". John is
a very
good father, and it is just very gratifying that it is turning
out
that way. Hopefully Kathy will also realize one day that her dad did
not
waste his life away. That is she will find it in her heart to get
over
her anger and frustration at his absence when she needed him. She
was in
a more vulnerable age and experienced strong resentments from her
mom
also in a more impressionable time in her life. I hope she will
heal.
Best
Dito
Leon
>
------------------------------------------------------
> Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
>
> Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
> (the beat literature web site)
>
> Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
> (my fantasy folk-rock album)
>
> ###################################
>
> "Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
> -- Bob Dylan
>
-----------------------------------------------------
> .-
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 22:27:19 -0600
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: "Derek A. Beaulieu"
<dabeauli@FREENET.CALGARY.AB.CA>
Organization:
Calgary Free-Net
Subject: Re: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the
nest
Comments:
To: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
In-Reply-To: <336FEC43.4891@pacbell.net>
hey
gang
according
to _the holy goof: a biography of neal cassady_ p.119:
"having finished _cuckoo's nest_
in the spring of 1961, kesey
journeyed
to oregon to help his brother start a creamery. he returned to
palo
alto in the summer of 1962, just months after his novel had been
published
to handsome praise just about everywhere. pulling up the old
cottage
on penny lane, he and faye descried an antic figure on thier font
lawn -
a man with an athletic build, maybe in his late thrirties, dressed
in a
t-shirt and chinos and bobbing up and down as if he were a boxer,
batting
great blue flirtatious eyes and jabbering, jabbering. "yes, yes,
yes,
why hello chief..."
the meeting was clearing
ordained.kesey had dreamed cassady first,
had
imagined him into being - with the usual distortions of dreamwork of
course
- asrandle patrick mcmurphy. neal had discovered that book and felt
summoned
by its author."
well, i
guess that settles it then, right?
yrs
derek
On Tue,
6 May 1997, James Stauffer wrote:
>
>
Dean,
>
> I
am not sure exactly when Cassidy first started coming around Kesey but
> it
was during the period that Kesey was living at Perry Lane near
>
Stanford, working at the VA Hospital in Menlo Park and writing the book.
>
Whether Cuckoo was already a work in progress of not, I don't know, but
> it
is hard not to see at least some Cassidy in Randle tho I think Randle
> is
more a creation of Kesey's using bits from Neal than the Cassidy
>
characters Kerouac did.
> J
Stauffer
>
>
Dean M. Palmer wrote: . .
>
>
>
> Did Kessey know Cassady at the
time? Was Randle based on Cassady? It
>
> seems like it....
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 22:30:57 -0700
Reply-To: stauffer@pacbell.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: James Stauffer
<stauffer@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: One, Two, Three, Four Flew OVER the
nest
I yield
to both of you gentleman. Superior access to more recent
secondary
sources. Randle is apparently only a
forshadowing of the real
fastestmanalive.
J
Stauffer
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 00:34:03 -0500
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<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Matthew S Sackmann
<msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>
Subject: Visions of Cody
I just
wanted to tell you all how much i highly recommend this book!
It took
me a while to get through some of the parts and i did -GASP- even
skip
some of the conversation parts [sorry, Jack], and Tim Hunt's
_Kerouac's
Crooked Road_ helped me immensely.
The
more i loook over this book and read it, the more it becomes my
favorite
Kerouac novel. I dont think i would
recommend it to newcomers to
Kerouac
though.
so
anyone want to start a conversation on this novel?
matt
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 22:18:48 -0700
Reply-To: letabor@cruzio.com
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Leon Tabory
<letabor@CRUZIO.COM>
Comments:
To: One@cruzio.com, Two@cruzio.com, Three@cruzio.com,
Four@cruzio.com, Flew@cruzio.com,
OVER@cruzio.com, the@cruzio.com,
nest@cruzio.com
Derek
A. Beaulieu wrote:
>
>
hey gang
>
according to _the holy goof: a biography of neal cassady_ p.119:
> "having finished _cuckoo's nest_
in the spring of 1961, kesey
>
journeyed to oregon to help his brother start a creamery. he returned to
>
palo alto in the summer of 1962, just months after his novel had been
>
published to handsome praise just about everywhere. pulling up the old
>
cottage on penny lane, he and faye descried an antic figure on thier font
>
lawn - a man with an athletic build, maybe in his late thrirties, dressed
> in
a t-shirt and chinos and bobbing up and down as if he were a boxer,
>
batting great blue flirtatious eyes and jabbering, jabbering. "yes, yes,
>
yes, why hello chief..."
> the meeting was clearing
ordained.kesey had dreamed cassady first,
>
had imagined him into being - with the usual distortions of dreamwork of
>
course - asrandle patrick mcmurphy. neal had discovered that book and felt
>
summoned by its author."
>
>
well, i guess that settles it then, right?
>
yrs
>
derek
>
> On
Tue, 6 May 1997, James Stauffer wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Dean,
>
>
>
> I am not sure exactly when Cassidy first started coming around Kesey but
>
> it was during the period that Kesey was living at Perry Lane near
>
> Stanford, working at the VA Hospital in Menlo Park and writing the book.
>
> Whether Cuckoo was already a work in progress of not, I don't know, but
>
> it is hard not to see at least some Cassidy in Randle tho I think Randle
>
> is more a creation of Kesey's using bits from Neal than the Cassidy
>
> characters Kerouac did.
>
> J Stauffer
>
>
>
> Dean M. Palmer wrote: . .
>
> >
>
> > Did Kessey know Cassady at
the time? Was Randle based on Cassady? It
>
> > seems like it....
>
>
> .-
Derek
A. Beaulieu wrote:
>
>
hey gang
>
according to _the holy goof: a biography of neal cassady_ p.119:
> "having finished _cuckoo's nest_
in the spring of 1961, kesey
>
journeyed to oregon to help his brother start a creamery. he returned to
>
palo alto in the summer of 1962, just months after his novel had been
>
published to handsome praise just about everywhere. pulling up the old
>
cottage on penny lane, he and faye descried an antic figure on thier font
>
lawn - a man with an athletic build, maybe in his late thrirties, dressed
> in
a t-shirt and chinos and bobbing up and down as if he were a boxer,
>
batting great blue flirtatious eyes and jabbering, jabbering. "yes, yes,
>
yes, why hello chief..."
> the meeting was clearing
ordained.kesey had dreamed cassady first,
>
had imagined him into being - with the usual distortions of dreamwork of
>
course - asrandle patrick mcmurphy. neal had discovered that book and felt
>
summoned by its author."
>
>
well, i guess that settles it then, right?
>
yrs
>
derek
>
Checking
my memory score card here:
Memory
cleared as far as Neal Not thinking he was a model for anyone in
the
book. I am beginning furthermore to recall being told that the model
for
Murphy was a real live patient, salesman possibly, am not sure if it
was
Kesey or Neal who told me about that, but one of them definitely did
tell me
about that patient.
A bit
more searching scholarship is indicated for me about the exact
dates
here.
My
memory is very vivid of the time Neal brought me the copy of the book
- just
out. No doubts about that.
No
doubts about having driven Neal to Anne's place in Palo Alto and
Perry
Lane before that.
No
doubts about the story of writing in the Veterans' hospital under
acid.
So wait
a minute. Does the biographer claim that Kesey wrote the book
before
living in Palo Alto and working in the VA hospital? That is not
settled.
More like unsettling. My memories are playing some huge tricks
on me
then. It has never been that masterful in deceiving me. I also
had
conversations with the nurse who thought she was the model for nurse
Ratchett.
She was married to a psychiatrist, Dr. Giese, and she also
told me
numerous times about Kesey' writing while at work at the
hospital.
I remember
vaguely
a conversation about her with Kesey. What gives here. If the
biographer
claims that Kesey finished the book before working at the
Palo
Alto Veterans' Hospital, then I would like to check his sources.
Leon
Leon
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 05:36:43 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Cosmic Baseball Association
<cosmic@CLARK.NET>
Subject: Kesey/Cassady
Leon,
James
Stauffer has already cautioned us about secondary sources, but the way
Jay
Stevens in Storming Heaven dates these events is that Kesey moves to
Perry
Lane in the fall of 1958 and in
mid-summer 1960 he starts working at
the
Veterans Hosp. He starts writing Cuckoo's
Nest around September 1960
and
finishes it in June 1961. The book is
published in Feb. 1962 and he
meets
Cassady during the summer of 1962.
However,
I note that Kesey has already started hanging out in North Beach by
1960 so
it's possible he's heard about Cassady, he certainly was hip to the
beats. (Stevens p.224-225).
I can't
find my copy of Plummer's Holy Goof to check his chronology, (I
think
it's out on a date with Yardley's Ring Lardner biography which I'm
also
trying to find right now. Personally I
don't think those two should be
dating).
But
Leon, please keep probing and posting the memory.
Regards,
Andrew
Lampert
cosmic@clark.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 04:40:43 -0500
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Jeff Taylor
<taylorjb@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Visions of Cody
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.A32.3.94.970507002836.29050A-100000@rs1.tcs.tulane.edu>
On Wed,
7 May 1997, Matthew S Sackmann wrote:
> I
just wanted to tell you all how much i highly recommend this book!
>
>
The more i loook over this book and read it, the more it becomes my
>
favorite Kerouac novel. I dont think i
would recommend it to newcomers to
>
Kerouac though.
>
> so
anyone want to start a conversation on this novel?
I'm
game. It is my favorite Kerouac as well! I think the first 100 pages
or so
are his finest writing. An intense lyricism that just keeps going
and
going, you can't believe that he can possibly keep it up for another
sentence
and yet he does, page after page.
There's
an almost mythological feel to it; even, and especially,
regarding
ordinary things. I'll never be able to look at a red brick wall
again
the same way.
His
prose in this book almost makes me want to write it out on a music
staff
complete with indications of tempo and dynamics:
"...in any case it was the great
serious American poolhall night {now
gradually slower and quieter} and Cody
arrived on the scene bearing
his original and sepulchral mind with him
{now gradually faster and
louder} to make the poolhall the
headquarters of the vast excitement
of the early Denver days of his life {now
suddenly quieter and slower}
becoming after awhile, a permanent musing
figure before the green
velvet of table number one...." (and
so on--p.49)
or long
descneding lines like:
hail the poor whiteface cows
drowsing in their evening stockyard
fattening meadows
with its call of faroff trains
and almost Iowa-like
valley
green
softness
(p.353)
Some of
the transcribed conversations are sometimes hard to get thru, but
it's an
interesting device; it keeps reappearing later in the book and
you
wonder if the tape ever stopped rolling.....
*******
Attenti
al filosofo!
Jeff
Taylor
taylorjb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Time is the
purest and cheapest form of doom.
*******
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 05:43:49 -0500
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Subject: Use our free 450+ Mailing List
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 08:04:33 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Visions of Cody
VOC is
the purest formof American prose/poetry since Whitman. Kerouac's
prose
is suffused with sunset imagery and darkness and dust. Notebook
jottings
made into novel form? This book is definetley his best...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 09:00:29 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Mike <cake@IONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Kerouac question
At
08:14 PM 5/6/97 EDT, you wrote:
>Good
question, Bill. I always thought he was
held as "a material witness."
Ma
>ybe
I got it from the newspaper clips. If
Gerry, doesn't have an answer I'll b
>e
glad to do some digging.
I
believe in _VOD_ K states it was for being an "a material
witness"
due to the fact he was an "accessory after the fact."
Not
sure how much poetic license is involved in the book
account?
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 09:02:53 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: "Michael L. Buchenroth"
<mike@INFINET.COM>
Subject: Re: For Michael Buchenroth
In-Reply-To: <970501201336_1456326214@emout07.mail.aol.com>
On Thu,
1 May 1997, Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:
I feel
honored to have the opportunity to share with a truly great
American
writer and poet! I have your book, "Last of the Mocassins"
(LOM-using
your acronym) and in fact I just finished reading it for the
2nd
time. I bought it from WaterRow earlier this spring. AND after
reading
your autobiography, seeing "Betty's" photo, etc., etc., LOM read
so much
more emotionally charged like those electrons in the EPR paradox!
As I
read LOM -inside my brain- I had emotional electrons beat-lining
faster
than light in opposite directions from each other rapping and
tapping
up against both sides of my skull and according to Eistein that
ain't
supposed ta happen! Who knows exactly what it made me feel like!
But
most certainly I "felt" your book! LOM remains such an emotionally
charged,
revved up account of incredibly interesting, truly American
experiences!
-such a rich, historical, powerful read! Damn!
Thanks
Charley!
>
COWS
>
>
Look at cow faces
>
cattlemen cruising the stockyards
>
the thing is
>
cows don't care
>
cows are queer
> I
saw a cow on muscle beach
>
> I
once found a cow magazine
>
with a cover of cows black and white
>
hooked up to iron milkers
>
>
Cow poetry in it
>
> If
you drink milk before going
> to
bed you'll wake up with a
>
bovine faced hangover
>
>
Huncke stole a cow
>
took it to the city
> on
his back
>
>
Charles Plymell:
>
Michael is building a website for me. Thank you. Nice birthday present.
>
http://www.buchenroth.com/cplymell.html
>
Michael
L. Buchenroth
mike@buchenroth.com
www.buchenroth.com
To view
Columbus'
Electronic Literary Magazine
go to
www.buchenroth.com/magazine.html
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 15:23:26 +0200
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
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From: Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>
Subject: Lawrence Ferlinghetti punctuation.
Michael
scrive:
>I
heard there was absolutely no punctuation in the original OTR.
be
beat! buon giorno amici beats, per favore
someone
can find ONE punctuation in the
works
poetry written by Lawrence Ferlinghetti?
i
searchin' for but my effort was frustrated,
if Jack
Kerouac wrote On The Road w/out punct
(on a
computer paper, by hand, of course) there's
another
beat who negleted the punct &
he is
LAWRENCE FERLIGHETTI,
rinaldo.
* coro:
un, due, tre! tutti giu' per terra! *
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 09:37:36 -0400
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: Lisa Bralts <Wordydiva@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Visions of Cody
In a
message dated 97-05-07 02:12:47 EDT, you write:
<<
so anyone want to start a conversation on this novel? >>
It's off
topic, but what the hell -- I named my
son Cody (he's 5 now) for
that
book. I love it, It's my absolute fave. A few years ago I lent (stupid!
I rue
the day!!) out a bunch of Kerouac books/bios, VOC being one of them, to
the
boyfriend of a co-worker... they broke up and he moved to England. I have
a
feeling I'll find those books in a thrift shop someday...
...
there's a part in that book where he describes Neal/Cody as an
adolescent/kid...
the way he described the sweater and his unkemptness and
the way
he was holding a children's toy (accordion?) that he found by the
side of
the road... the imagery packed an enormous wallop at the time (I was
in
college).
Lisa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 08:42:27 -0500
Reply-To: race@midusa.net
Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation
List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
From: RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Lawrence Ferlinghetti punctuation.
Rinaldo
Rasa wrote:
>
>
Michael scrive:
>
>I heard there was absolutely no punctuation in the original OTR.
>
> be
beat! buon giorno amici beats, per favore
>
someone can find ONE punctuation in the
>
works poetry written by Lawrence Ferlinghetti?
>
> i
searchin' for but my effort was frustrated,
>
> if
Jack Kerouac wrote On The Road w/out punct
>
(on a computer paper, by hand, of course) there's
>
another beat who negleted the punct &
> he
is LAWRENCE FERLIGHETTI,
>
>
rinaldo.
>
> *
coro: un, due, tre! tutti giu' per
terra! *
all i
have of LF is the Starting Out SF one.
i can't find it handy to
see if
it had punc or not. i hope i didn't
lose it.
i
enjoyed learning more about Kesey yesterday.
Hope to learn some more
about
Visions of Cody today as previous posts suggested.
Right
now I'm reading the Desolation Angels.
Curious in the First Part
why
ain't there a #99 ? I imagine that the
experts have a story or two
to
explain it.
Also
i'm eager to learn more about Lawrence Ferlinghetti's connections
in this
whole thing Beat. i've heard a few here
and there but the
stories
of the folks that were there and done that are always most
intriguing.
I'm
beginning to get a map in the brain that God gave me of some of the
connections. I was a relative virgin to this whole stuff
when i came
on, i'd
only read On The Road and a bunch of WSB kind of stuff and a bit
of
Ginsberg (but my mind had not been on the poems there - rather the
poetess
reading AG to moi). My favorite
character in OTR was Old Bull
Lee and
perhaps that is what directed me towards more of him. but i
found
much of his writing impossible to read in conventional manners.
well, i
guess that is not really a very coherent post.
incoherence
happens
to the worst of us.
david
rhaesa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 07:07:44 -0700
Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"
<BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
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From: Levi Asher
<brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <337010B8.1ABB@cruzio.com> from
"Leon Tabory" at May 6,
97 10:18:48 pm
Leon
wrote:
> on
me then. It has never been that masterful in deceiving me. I also
>
had conversations with the nurse who thought she was the model for nurse
>
Ratchett. She was married to a psychiatrist, Dr. Giese, and she also
Now
*this* sounds like an interesting story!!!
Can you tell it?
About
this novel -- to me this is a rare example ("Deliverance"
also
comes to mind) of a great book that was also turned into a great
movie. As a kid I saw the movie -- later when I
read the book I was at
first
disappointed that it didn't seem to have as much psychological
depth
and sharp characterization as the movie -- but then the book
went so
much further with prose experimentation and symbolism
(Jesus,
etc.) that I finally decided both the film and the book
were
classics in their own ways.
I also
remember that around the time the film came out there
was a
huge and nasty public battle between Kesey and the
filmmakers
that reminds me of our present situation.
Anybody
else
remember when Kesey vs. Forman raged? I
remember one great
quote
of Kesey's about the filmmakers -- "I know why they they
left
the Combine out of the movie -- they are the Combine."
But
since it was clearly a great movie, I remember the fight
leaving
the world at large simply confused.
Definitely
sounds
familiar!
------------------------------------------------------
Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com
Literary Kicks:
http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/
(the beat literature web site)
Queensboro Ballads:
http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/
(my fantasy folk-rock album)
###################################
"Tie yourself to a tree with
roots"
-- Bob Dylan
-----------------------------------------------------