=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 21:07:39 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>

Subject:      Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but what the hell

In-Reply-To:  <199705042119.OAA26747@denmark.it.earthlink.net> from "Gerald

              Nicosia" at May 4, 97 02:19:34 pm

 

Gerry wrote:

>         OK, I'm sure I explained to you, that my problem from the start as

> Jan's literary executor has been that her heir, exhusband John Lash, has

> been seeking desperately for some grounds to dismiss me (so he can complete

> his deal with John Sampas).  I told you to take the never-published PARROT

> FEVER from your web site because, potentially, John Lash could go before the

> Albuquerque court and say: "Look, Nicosia is GIVING AWAY OUR [his and Jan's

> half-brother's] PROPERTY.  He has now diminished the earning power of PARROT

> FEVER by letting this guy Asher print it for nothing."

 

Okay, I understand and accept this (although you didn't explain this

before).  I never questioned your right, as Jan's literary executor,

to call the shots as you see them, and I am more sympathetic as well,

now that you've explained why you'd asked me to stop running this piece.

 

I really only brought this up because I think John Sampas, as Jack Kerouac's

literary executor, also has the right to call the shots as he sees

them, and I think he must have his own private reasons, just as you

have yours in this "Parrot Fever" situation, for taking the actions that

you have objected to.

 

>         So let's make a trade-off here.  Until the Appellate Court in Santa

> Fe makes a final ruling on the extent of my powers, I'm not going to give

> Mr. Lash any ammunition concerning how careless I am with his property.

> What I can do is give you permission to print an equal amount of Jan's work

> (equal no. of words) as was in the PARROT FEVER excerpt, from either of her

> out-of-print books BABY DRIVER or TRAINSONG.  You tell me what excerpt you

> want, what page to what page, and I'll fax you a letter of permission.

 

Thanks for this offer -- but there really is something special I liked

about publishing "previously unpublished works."  So how about this,

instead -- if you ever reach a point in your dispute with Lash where

you can safely give me permission to run the Parrot Fever excerpt

again, let me know, and till then I'll just keep it on file.

 

Now ... let's end this here before we get another 90 messages

from Italy ...

 

------------------------------------------------------

           Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com

 

   Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/

            (the beat literature web site)

 

 Queensboro Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/

             (my fantasy folk-rock album)

 

          ###################################

 

          "Tie yourself to a tree with roots"

                    -- Bob Dylan

-----------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 23:56:36 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Phil Chaput <philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject:      Gerry ????????

 

Gerry, you really didn't respond to this post.

 

 

>>Gerry, I just looked at an uncorrected proof of "Some of the Dharma" and on

>one of the first pages it states that the manuscript/notebooks (maybe 8 of

>them can't remember how many)for "Some of the Dharma" were placed in the

>Berg collection of the New York Public Library in 1993 by John Sampas. What

>do you have to say about that? If it's not true why would it be in the book?

>

>By the way Gerry the folks at Lowell Celebrates Kerouac all work very hard

>to promote Kerouac and you are doing a terrible disservice when you go and

>try to put us down because in your mind we are all part of the Sampas

>conspiracy theory. I can assure you that many of the decent folks that work

>hard to put this festival on every year don't know or care about your

>squabbles with the Sampas family. Ed Sanders the main feature at the

>festival last year did do a nice little tribute to Jan Kerouac at the

>festival. You know what, his hotel bill was paid isn't that amazing? I'm not

>sure but the probable reason you or Jan haven't been asked to speak is

>because it's not "Lowell Celebrates Lawsuits" it's "Lowell Celebrates

>Kerouac" and I'm quite sure that is what your agenda would be. It seems to

>be your only one lately. We accept donations from anyone willing to give and

>I haven't heard of any checks coming in from you ever. Maybe you  would like

>it better if no one donated anything and we didn't promote Kerouac at all in

>Lowell. It seems like that is what you want. Keep your beef with John

>private and don't try to drag down people that truly want to do some good

>and promote Kerouac. Phil Chaput

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Sun, 4 May 1997 23:24:05 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Various and Sundry--Mostly Pleas for Help :-)

 

In a message dated 97-05-04 11:47:56 EDT, you write:

 

<< Wow. Been a long time. I first joined this list right after my father, Don

 Carpenter, died in July 1995.  >>

Bonnie:

 I remember your father sitting with Braughtigan and me on Haight St.

Watching it build. He used to come down to the Tenderloin and talk to me. We

were in front of a movie theatre where I had my photo taken. The one on

Apocayspe Rose. I always wondered if he helped Braughtigan find a publisher.

I had published some of B's poems. Sorry for your loss.

Charles Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 16:06:21 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Moritz Rossbach <moro0000@STUD.UNI-SB.DE>

Subject:      jk's heritage

In-Reply-To:  <199705050407.VAA14124@netcom.netcom.com>

 

On Sun, 4 May 1997, Levi Asher wrote:

>

> Now ... let's end this here before we get another 90 messages

> from Italy ...

>

yup,thats right rinaldo what does that mean, anyway?

 

people are discussing serious toppings ;) and you send us some

kinderkacke!

 

no, lets get serious. all i know about this kerouac estate fight is what i

learned from the recent postings and i am sad to hear that it has come

that far.

gerald, your arguments sound reasonable and honest and i know why "the

other side" dont comment, their selfish, profit-oriented and anti-social

behaviour is revealed and everything they said now, would only be silly or

pointless. i just cant understand why the rest of you stay silent...

as i understand it this is about the future of the teaching of the

wonderful literary history of the US. with all its light and shadow.

proof me wrong or standup against the material profit of the selfish

individual who betray the community.

 

mit freundlichen gruessen

 

moritz rossbach,saarbruecken, germany

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 08:28:42 CDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Wes Lundburg <wlundburg@MAIL.FF.CC.MN.US>

Subject:      Re: Looking for Jack...

 

> Coming soon from Upstart Crow Publishing:

>

> Looking For Jack: The Literary Influences of Jack Kerouac

> by Paul A. Maher Jr.

>

> This will be published in a limited quantity of 500 copies this summer.

> This will be available by reservation only.

> More info is forthcoming.....

>

 

Who posted this?  How can I get on the list to purchase one a copy?  Whoever

posted this said to e-mail privately, but then didn't leave an e-mail address

(please keep in mind that not everybody gets the original "from" line).

 

Please post your e-mail, or e-mail ME privately so I can get more info!

 

---Wes Lundburg

wlundburg@mail.ff.cc.mn.us

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 10:31:03 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         MORE OXY THAN MORON <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject:      Re: More than enough

 

Rinaldo

Can't stop

cuz

he likes

to

Bop.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 11:38:26 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         PAM <mapaul@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Looking for Jack...

 

At 08:28 AM 5/5/97 CDT, you wrote:

>> Coming soon from Upstart Crow Publishing:

>>

>> Looking For Jack: The Literary Influences of Jack Kerouac

>> by Paul A. Maher Jr.

>>

>> This will be published in a limited quantity of 500 copies this summer.

>> This will be available by reservation only.

>> More info is forthcoming.....

>>

>

>Who posted this?  How can I get on the list to purchase one a copy?  Whoever

>posted this said to e-mail privately, but then didn't leave an e-mail address

>(please keep in mind that not everybody gets the original "from" line).

>

>Please post your e-mail, or e-mail ME privately so I can get more info!

>

>---Wes Lundburg

>wlundburg@mail.ff.cc.mn.us

>You may want to contact Water Row Press at waterrow@aol.com. Keep in mind

that this is a work in progress and won't be ready for a few more months.

Thanks, Paul...

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 08:46:01 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Shannon L. Stephens" <shanstep@CS.ARIZONA.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Looking For Jack: grocery and other haunts

Comments: To: RACE --- <race@midusa.net>

In-Reply-To:  <336B37A9.1A36@midusa.net>

 

SEND THE GROCERY POEM AS IS!

 

My thoughts have grown much more pensive in the frozen food isles (a land

far away) after having read it.

 

-Shan (list lurker)

 

 

On Sat, 3 May 1997, RACE --- wrote:

 

> PAM wrote:

> >

> > >Hi Dave! You can recieve a copy for $5.00. Try submitting your poem for

> > publication if you want. You may send both (or one or the other) to:

> > The Kerouac Quarterly

> > 34 North Rd. #7

> > Chelmsford, MA. 01824    Thanks, Paul...

>

> so i'm thinkin' about submitting the grocery poem to KQ.  could people

> more versed in verse be so kind as to send me some suggestions for

> editing and revisions.  please be brutal.

>

> then i'll work it a bit massage it here and there and there and here

> and then figure out a way to get my printer running so that i can print

> it and send it earthmail.

>

> i appreciate ideas from anyone out there.  we're all born critics - just

> some are born nice and polite too :)

>

> david rhaesa

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 11:02:09 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         John Mitchell <mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>

Subject:      Estate of the State, for Rinaldo

 

Rinaldo, as a student of American literature I'm sure you know that in

America you ain't nobody until you have filed a claim to help fulfill your

personal dream and/or been subpoenaed to participate in one:  I sue/I am

sued, ergo I existimento.  Litigation is what we have instead of love.  Or

honor.  Or life.  As for Jack's estate and related palavers, remember that

famous line from American Lit., from <Death of a Salesman>, where Willy

Loman realizes that he is "worth more dead than alive."  (Life

insurance--heh heh--so he hits the road, and runs into a real wall; of

course, what his sons really wanted was--surprise--love!  Biff is Beat.)  O

Jack, he knew this, Buddhawise.  It depressed him to realize that people

were promoting him into a stardom (it got to Neal earlier) from which there

is seldom an escape, even or especially on the road.  Booze, drugs, that's

the pill!  Meanwhile there is no American Dream without a commensurate

number of woodticks and tape worms.// John M.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 09:32:09 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but what the hell

 

>Now ... let's end this here before we get another 90 messages

>from Italy ...

 

well we could all just each reply to each of Rianldo's posts...to rinaldo

direct, not the beat-l

 

How many folks on the list?  say 20.  20 * 90, 1800  50? 4500 letters in one

day to one mailbox?

 

of course iam am only pointing out a danger rinaldo has set himself up for.

 

 don't really do it.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 09:33:16 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: Gerry ????????

 

At 11:56 PM 5/4/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Gerry, you really didn't respond to this post.

>

>

>>>Gerry, I just looked at an uncorrected proof of "Some of the Dharma" and on

>>one of the first pages it states that the manuscript/notebooks (maybe 8 of

>>them can't remember how many)for "Some of the Dharma" were placed in the

>>Berg collection of the New York Public Library in 1993 by John Sampas. What

>>do you have to say about that? If it's not true why would it be in the book?

>>

>>By the way Gerry the folks at Lowell Celebrates Kerouac all work very hard

>>to promote Kerouac and you are doing a terrible disservice when you go and

>>try to put us down because in your mind we are all part of the Sampas

>>conspiracy theory. I can assure you that many of the decent folks that work

>>hard to put this festival on every year don't know or care about your

>>squabbles with the Sampas family. Ed Sanders the main feature at the

>>festival last year did do a nice little tribute to Jan Kerouac at the

>>festival. You know what, his hotel bill was paid isn't that amazing? I'm not

>>sure but the probable reason you or Jan haven't been asked to speak is

>>because it's not "Lowell Celebrates Lawsuits" it's "Lowell Celebrates

>>Kerouac" and I'm quite sure that is what your agenda would be. It seems to

>>be your only one lately. We accept donations from anyone willing to give and

>>I haven't heard of any checks coming in from you ever. Maybe you  would like

>>it better if no one donated anything and we didn't promote Kerouac at all in

>>Lowell. It seems like that is what you want. Keep your beef with John

>>private and don't try to drag down people that truly want to do some good

>>and promote Kerouac. Phil Chaput

>>

 

Dear Phil,   5/5/97

        This is getting ridiculous.  You're wasting my time, I'm not going

to answer the same questions twice.  Did you not get the post I sent in

reply, beginning: "Jeffrey Weinberg told me he sold BOOK OF DREAMS to a

private collector"?  I got the report from Beat-List saying it was sent.

        The only thing I left out is that federal funding was cut from the

Lowell Kerouac Committee after complaints were made to the National Park

Service about the partisan use of funding for past Kerouac events.  Even the

National Park Service doesn't think your committee deserves funding any

more--so why should I fund it?

        Tell Sampas to get on here himself, so we can stop running around in

circles and get to the heart of the matter.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 19:19:01 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      Emilio Vedova e i beats?.

 

cari amici beats,

'bout Emilio Vedova, is the greatest painter living at

present in italy & he is venetian, he lives in an house

near Punta della Dogana (San Marco Place)where is the

Museo delle Bell Arti di Venezia, paintings of most venetian

artists are in this building.

 

i past time known a disceple of Emilio Vedova, & in my

room (computer room) at home there a CRAB painted by

former friend Tenenti Giancarlo (the Vedova disceple),

 

how is the Vedova paint? it's not realist & not abstractionism,

big & tiny brushstroke on the canvas, the color he prefer

is black & white, Emilio Vedova is an old man & a teacher

at the Accademia delle Belle Arti of Venice,

if u like send me a feedback & give u more 'bout Emilio Vedova,

 

in this moment i remind that also Lawrence Ferlinghetti

is involved in painting & some remind me Emilio Vedova

e.g. L.F. "Untled" where a bridge is sketched a' la E. Vedova,

in my opinion, u know sure that ferlinghetti is an aficionado

'bout italian scene (sad on the florentine side, not venetian...)

& if u see the book cover of "Scene italiane" there's a

ferlighetti's paint "Morning Vision" that again vedovaesque feeling.

 

well, for HST i refer to "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" in my

italian translation (sandro veronesi did it, nice!) & there's

painting by Ralph Steadman that has on a side a Grosz feeling

but on the other side ink blot on the page  e.g. chapter 6.

is Vedova style,

----

a brief bio

VEDOVA Emilio,

(Venezia 8 september 19919 - living)

Pittore. Tra i maggiori esponenti dell'arte informale

italiana, in contatto a Milano (1942-43) con Corrente

fu nel dopoguerra tra i promotori del Fronte nuovo

delle arti e nel 1952 fece parte del gruppo degli

Otto, volgendosi a un espressionismo astratto forte

e gestuale. OP:Sbarramento (1951), Venezia,

Fondazione P. Guggenheim.

----

vale!

cari saluti da

Rinaldo.

*       a not competent beet    *

*       TUTTI GIU' PER TERRA    *

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 19:18:59 +0200

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rinaldo Rasa <rinaldo@GPNET.IT>

Subject:      the "chinese room"

 

amici beats, we're put our own hands on a new media, joking sometime

in the "chinese room" & this means mes'are cyberhermetic,

 do u remember "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest"

by Ken Kesey? a great moment at the start...

* the beet *

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 10:31:37 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but what the hell

 

>I really only brought this up because I think John Sampas, as Jack Kerouac's

>literary executor, also has the right to call the shots as he sees

>them, and I think he must have his own private reasons, just as you

>have yours in this "Parrot Fever" situation, for taking the actions that

>you have objected to.

>

 

Dear Levi,    May 5, 1997

 

        I did not have PRIVATE reasons for withholding the PARROT FEVER

excerpt; I had good LEGAL reasons.

        I don't question that John Sampas currently has the LEGAL RIGHT to

sell off Kerouac's property, publish or withhold Kerouac's books, etc.  I do

question whether or not he has the MORAL RIGHT to break up Kerouac's archive

into hundreds of pieces, destroying its scholarly value (as attested to by

such experts as Matthew Bruccoli of the University of South Carolina, Tom

Staley of U. of T., Austin, and Tony Bliss of Bancroft, Berkeley, among others).

        Doesn't Mr. Sampas owe something to the man who made him and his

family wealthy?  Doesn't he owe something to Kerouac as a writer who

enriched the entire world by what he wrote?  I don't mean OWE in a legal

sense here.  I mean the kind of debt we owe the dead, when they have helped

us in their lifetime.

        For the nth time I say, if Mr. Sampas truly intends to keep Jack

Kerouac's papers together in a library, then why doesn't he tell us when he

will do this, and what is keeping him from doing it NOW???

        Best, Gerry Nicosia

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 10:46:55 -0700

Reply-To:     letabor@cruzio.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Comments: To: apologies@cruzio.com

 

Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

>

> as gif image now i'm considering to limit my writing...

> .-

Beat Community Genius Rinaldo. Spanking new channels email surprising

communication. Possibilities to contemplate, play with, digest. Shit.

Have a beutiful Monday.

leon

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 11:05:54 -0700

Reply-To:     letabor@cruzio.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Comments: To: "I swore I'd stay out of this but what the hell"@cruzio.com

 

Gerald Nicosia wrote:

 

> Dear Levi,    May 5, 1997

>

>         I did not have PRIVATE reasons for withholding the PARROT FEVER

> excerpt; I had good LEGAL reasons.

>         I don't question that John Sampas currently has the LEGAL RIGHT to

> sell off Kerouac's property, publish or withhold Kerouac's books, etc.

 

Dear Gerald,

 

I continue to pay reluctant close attention to this very tasteless, rude

incessant intrusion that we have been bombarded with lately. At the same

time I am also grateful for the information that broadens my

understanding of matters beat, writing, publishing, authoring, and life

at the end of the twentieth century. Not just in the USA. I am

fascinated by the energy, intelligence and devotion, seemingly to the

cause. What cause, a cause that I haven't completely bought yet. Even

forgetting the objections raised by Rod and others. Comes now Levi's

entry, and what's this? Do I see a stumble? Do you consider this an

adequate response? A legal right is sufficient reason for you and is

there a total absence of need for moral reason(s) when it comes to your

actions? Am I overlooking something here?

leon

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 14:28:13 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but what the hell

In-Reply-To:  Message of Mon, 5 May 1997 09:32:09 -0700 from

              <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

 

Timothy, what a wonderful idea!  100 messages x 250 or so a day.  Just remember

to reply directly to Rinaldo not to the list.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 11:29:51 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Shannon L. Stephens" <shanstep@CS.ARIZONA.EDU>

Subject:      mean words

In-Reply-To:  <m0wORPh-000rVmC@gpnet.it>

 

I had a nasty/spicy horrible fight yesterday.

Feel small like Alice...without the sensation of falling down the hole.

So you know what?

I want a point in the literary direction of one of our beats deflecting

the invasive harsh words that come along with dissolution.

 

-Shan

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 13:43:08 -0500

Reply-To:     race@midusa.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Nice Words

 

Shannon L. Stephens wrote:

>

> I had a nasty/spicy horrible fight yesterday.

> Feel small like Alice...without the sensation of falling down the hole.

> So you know what?

> I want a point in the literary direction of one of our beats deflecting

> the invasive harsh words that come along with dissolution.

>

> -Shan

 

Many a day I have that Alice feeling myself.

 

Here are some nice words.  I haven't figured out what they mean yet.

I've been thinking about them quite a bit - perhaps too much.

 

I have no reason to quibble with the absence of judgement placed in

Things by the Absent Judge who builded the world without building it.

Without building it.

                -- Desolation Angels

 

Perhaps someone or many someones can explain or interpret these words to

let me sense better why they hit me so directly in my mind's eye.

 

david rhaesa

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 13:11:30 -500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nick Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>

Subject:      Merry Pranksters Hit Chicago (and the Web)

 

Thought those of you who can't make it to Borders (I'm hoping

to be there) would like to at least be there virtually. WXRT is

Chicago's best music station BTW...

 

Nick W-W

 

>

>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>

> Online Be-in With WXRT And Ken Kesey

>

> From: wxrt@MCS.COM (WXRT)

> Date: 3 May 1997 00:09:26 -0500

> Organization: MCSNet Services

> Newsgroups: chi.media

>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>

> Ken Kesey and more than a dozen Merry Pranksters are

> crossing America in Kesey's 1947 International Harvester school bus en

> route to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland to celebrate the

> museums new exhibit, I Want To Take You Higher: The Psychedelic Era

> 1965-1969, opening on May 10, 1997.  And yes, they are making a stop in

> Chicago.

>

> The Chicago stop takes place on May 7 from noon-3pm at Borders Books at

> Diversey and Clark in Chicago and you are invited to attend.  If you can't

> make it in person, drop by the XRT web site at http://www.wxrt.com and

> check out the digital be-in. We'll be featuring  QTVR's of Kesey's bus

> "Furthur," downloadable movie clips, streaming audio segments, photos,

> and text comments collected during the event.

>

> WXRT made its first foray into netcasting during the Democratic National

> Convention as part of the Chicago96 web site, www.chicago96.org .  That

> web site received over a million hits during the course of the convention

> week and was called the "...most fun convention site" by The New York

> Times.

>

>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 14:02:00 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         John Mitchell <mitchell@AUGSBURG.EDU>

Subject:      Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but what the hell

In-Reply-To:  <BEAT-L%97050514300998@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

 

I fail to see the wonder.  Rinaldo was constantly risking an absurdity, I

admit.  I too didn't want his protestant spree to go on much longer, but at

least his one or two liners were quick to read and delete.  And, for me at

least, his deluge was a funny wake-up call from the torrents of spring

being spewed by others more Beat-List correct in their bop prosody, whose

word-counts for a single day at times have far out-numbered Rinaldo's.

Still, I respect this All-American, no doubt Beat-nik thing, of ganging up

on an individual for breaking the rules of TeeVee decorum, not to mention

the black beret and bongo individuality of all wearing the same Beat-List

T-shirt while jamming Rinaldo. At moment's like this I'm glad Jack's dead.

// John M.

 

 

>Timothy, what a wonderful idea!  100 messages x 250 or so a day.  Just

>remember

>to reply directly to Rinaldo not to the list.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 12:06:54 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but what the hell

 

I want to point out that I didn't say we should do this to Rinaldo.

I said that Rinaldo should be aware of what possibilities he opens his

e-mail account up to when he does this.

 

At 02:02 PM 5/5/97 -0600, you wrote:

>I fail to see the wonder.  Rinaldo was constantly risking an absurdity, I

>admit.  I too didn't want his protestant spree to go on much longer, but at

>least his one or two liners were quick to read and delete.  And, for me at

>least, his deluge was a funny wake-up call from the torrents of spring

>being spewed by others more Beat-List correct in their bop prosody, whose

>word-counts for a single day at times have far out-numbered Rinaldo's.

>Still, I respect this All-American, no doubt Beat-nik thing, of ganging up

>on an individual for breaking the rules of TeeVee decorum, not to mention

>the black beret and bongo individuality of all wearing the same Beat-List

>T-shirt while jamming Rinaldo. At moment's like this I'm glad Jack's dead.

>// John M.

>

>

>>Timothy, what a wonderful idea!  100 messages x 250 or so a day.  Just

>>remember

>>to reply directly to Rinaldo not to the list.

>

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 15:07:28 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bruce Hartman <bwhartmanjr@INAME.COM>

Subject:      Re: I swore I'd stay out of this but what the hell

 

Beat Friends. . .

 

        Man oh man, we got a doozy on our hands with this estate battle, huh?  I

don't know what to say, obviously we have to very rigid and divided camps,

and, as best I can tell, only one is represented on the list.

        At first I tended to side with Nicosia, simply because he was the only one

talking, but with the addition of Levi's nugget of info, I think I'm

beginning to distance myself from both sides because it all sounds too

goddamned complicated, and vendetta-based.

        Whether or not this observation is accurate, I'm going to make it:  It

appears that Nicosia wants to be granted the free reign to say anything he

damn well pleases with the added benefit of being able to rescind and

adjust his statements when he sees it necessary.  Case in point, Levi and

the book excerpt.  Why, Nicosia, didn't you make it clear to Levi in the

beginning why you asked him to remove the excerpt?  It seems obvious to me

why Levi was befuddled by you.  I can almost bet that had you conducted

yourself with a bit more tact, Levi would be one of your champions.  And

because of Levi's love of and dedication to all things Beat, never mind his

good nature in all discussions I've seen him chime in on, I tend to align

myself with him, trusting that his impressions of situations are accurate,

well-balanced, and well-thought. (No pressure, Levi, really).

 

        I think it comes down to this: Be consistent, dammit!

 

Bruce

bwhartmanjr@iname.com

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 13:58:11 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nick Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Gatt implications to intellectual property....

 

I've uncovered all my copyright files in an attempt to check this out - it

looks to me like it only applies to work initially published overseas, not

in the US, so it wouldn't therfore apply. All very strange. Sorry for the

diversion, should have checked before posting.The whole thing was kept very

quiet though.

 

There are a number of huge web sites devoted to the works of authors in the

public domain - Project Gutenberg is one of the main ones. They're mostly

university funded or sponsored, and the contents are usually free to all who

wish to browse and have web access. Works can be quite expensive to mount if

you want them well designed and with hypertext links. The ALTX site is

another place starting to put up pout of print works (they have one of

Ronald Sukenick's books up already).

 

 

Nick

>Nick,

>

>        First of all, thanks for your sig file with its the regular reminder

>of the proper approach to getting -  "don't let the bastards grind you down"

>...lots better than my two Roman legionaire standbyes, "Nolo urinare contra

>ventum." and "Semper ubi sub ubi."

>

>        Reading about the confused situation regarding the Kerouac estate,

>and now seeing the intricacies of copyright renewal and the potential for

>misses, has been an odd mix of feeling disheartened together with a sense of

>tension and suspense as each new twist is unveiled.

>

>        The digitization idea of Michael Stutz is an excellent one and made

>me wonder if there is much web access to digitized works of the size of the

>Kerouac novels. The Gatt twist seems an incredibly important development in

>the intellectual property area. What are the specific limitations to

>applying this. Is it obscure enough that Gerald Nicosia or the Sampas family

>would have missed the chance that it provided?  Gerald / Gerry?

>

>        This seems to make it important to have/build an index of what the

>copyright renewal options are on the whole body of Beat lierature even

>though we're ten to twenty years past the critical time period for renewal.

>Does the publishing industry maintain such a resource? Anyway,I hope that

>you and the otehrs involved in publishing in all its froma will continue to

>educate us.

>

>        Thanks     Antoine

> Voice contact at  (514) 933-4956 in Montreal

>

>     "An anarchist is someone who doesn't need a cop to tell him what to do!"

>                        -- Norman Navrotsky and Utah Phillips

>

>

**************************************************************************

*Nil Carborundum Illegitimis*

It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees

 

Nick Weir-Williams

Director, Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208

President, Illinois Book Publishers Association

List Manager, chipub listserv

 

ph:  847 491 8114

fax: 847 491 8150

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 16:09:07 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sean Elias <SPElias@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Merry Pranksters Hit Chicago (and the Web)

 

In a message dated 97-05-05 15:45:57 EDT, you write:

 

<<

 Thought those of you who can't make it to Borders (I'm hoping

 to be there) would like to at least be there virtually. WXRT is

 Chicago's best music station BTW...

 

 Nick W-W

  >>

This post smacks of an ad. BTW...XRT sux...try NUR or ZRD...And we have

problems w/ Border's mgt. in this town.

 

          beano

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 16:31:24 EDT

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jim Dimock <juancito@JUNO.COM>

Subject:      Re: Merry Pranksters Hit Chicago (and the Web)

 

Any idea which Pranksters are on the bus beside Kesey?

 

Jim

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 14:51:25 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Nick Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Merry Pranksters Hit Chicago (and the Web)

 

Oh well excuse me for troubling you. Plus, the Borders in question is the

one that actually has a union after the big fight for it, so it seems rather

pointless boycotting that one. As for XRT, a matter of opinion I think.

 

Nick

 

>This post smacks of an ad. BTW...XRT sux...try NUR or ZRD...And we have

>problems w/ Border's mgt. in this town.

>

>          beano

>

>

**************************************************************************

*Nil Carborundum Illegitimis*

It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees

 

Nick Weir-Williams

Director, Northwestern University Press, 625 Colfax Street, Evanston, IL 60208

President, Illinois Book Publishers Association

List Manager, chipub listserv

 

ph:  847 491 8114

fax: 847 491 8150

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 16:52:42 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Sean Elias <SPElias@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Merry Pranksters Hit Chicago (and the Web)

 

In a message dated 97-05-05 16:44:26 EDT, you write:

 

<<

 Oh well excuse me for troubling you. >>

I don't believe I ever suggested a boycot, simply made a comment about

Border's management in general.

As for XRT, I believe, in taste, rather than opinion.  Semantics?

 

       beano

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 14:01:31 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "s.a. griffin" <perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>

Subject:      merry pranksters hit windy city and radio netville

 

seriously now folks, fuck the $$$$ signs and billboards that bump the soggin

noggin, it's the only way that I can get on the damned bus and I'ma gonna

git thair one way or ta other, I'm just glad that the radio station

obviously steeped in true hype is bringing the intrepid trip to us all here

on the beat list as I am digging the Further web site connected to the shin

bone of the radio site as you dudes and dudettes beep one another on the net

well guess what children the bus is pulling away and as they say you are

either on the bus or off the well beaten rug tug shug mug and don't paint

the tires ya know you gotta go man never spank a yankster and shooby doo a

prankster and download the road in the garter belt 30 weight wahoo uphill

race towards big wheel dr. feelgood got the cure and you can keep the

deezeezeeeeeeee. . . chicago blow me home blow me down blow me upriver and

sing me beat daddy

 

 

xxxooo

s.a.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 14:17:35 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "s.a. griffin" <perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>

Subject:      nice words

 

acceptance

 

xxxooo

s.a.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 15:02:31 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Bonnie Lee Howard <howardb@SONOMA.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Various and Sundry--Mostly Pleas for Help :-)

In-Reply-To:  <970504232402_-1031159111@emout02.mail.aol.com>

 

On Sun, 4 May 1997, Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:

 

> In a message dated 97-05-04 11:47:56 EDT, you write:

>

> << Wow. Been a long time. I first joined this list right after my father, Don

>  Carpenter, died in July 1995.  >>

> Bonnie:

>  I remember your father sitting with Braughtigan and me on Haight St.

> Watching it build. He used to come down to the Tenderloin and talk to me. We

> were in front of a movie theatre where I had my photo taken. The one on

> Apocayspe Rose. I always wondered if he helped Braughtigan find a publisher.

> I had published some of B's poems. Sorry for your loss.

> Charles Plymell

 

Thanks. And thanks for the memories, too. I don't know whether dad helped

R.B. find a publisher or not. It's possible. After I found out about dad's

suicide, the first person I contacted was Brautigan's daughter. She gave

me some great advice (especially "do NOTHING for a year"). My father and

Brautigan were very close for a long time, and both killed themselves

almost exactly ten years apart. But under very different circumstances.

 

My father was instrumental in helping Philip Whalen get some stuff

published. You wanna hear a good story about Phil? It's kinda cute:

We lived in Noe Valley in the early 60's, and Phil used to babysit for us

kids so that my parents could go out. My sister and I were very little and

pretty bratty. One night Phil was babysitting and had fallen asleep on the

couch. My sister and I decided to play with something forbidden: fire. Uh

oh. We lit a bunch of candles and were pouring the hot molten wax around,

just generally making an awful mess. We got some wax on our hands, and

when we pulled it off, it made sort of a model of our fingers. So we then

got the bright idea of making a mold of Phil's face while he was snoring

peacefully on the couch. Poor Whalen: I will never forget the look on his

face when he awoke with two preschoolers standing over him, dribbling hot

wax onto his face. Yikes! He could have gotten us into a whole lot of

trouble, but he never did tell my parents what we did, and how stupid and

dangerous it was. I will always love him for that :-)

 

Oh dear: I am doing it again...getting all nahs-talgic. I'll stop now :-)

 

Bonnie

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 15:19:20 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "s.a. griffin" <perrotta@CALVIN.USC.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Various and Sundry--Mostly Pleas for Help :-)

 

so that's why the poor man became a monk!

 

 

xxxooo

s.a.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 20:00:32 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Jerry Cimino <Bigsurs4me@AOL.COM>

Subject:      THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING

 

Moritz Rossbach from Germany wrote:

 

>i just cant understand why the rest of you stay silent... as i understand it

this is about the future of the teaching of the wonderful literary history of

the US.  with all its light and shadow.

 

 

 

I've been thinking a lot about the Kerouac Estate Battle and I've got to tell

you I've been very troubled by the whole thing for a lot of reasons.  I can

empathize with Rinaldo's flooding the list (feel his pain, as it were) while

at the same time being irked that I had to wade through all this junk he was

sending my way and everybody else's.

 

It was obvious to me and probably many others that he'd had it, he just

didn't want to deal with the idea of a lawsuit involving the works of JK.  He

was shouting "Make Nice! Play Fair!" in his crazy Venetian broken English

way.

 

As I settled into a fitful sleep last night I got to thinking too that this

is a parallel with Nicosia and Jan.  They've been shouting from the rooftops,

flooding the list as it were, trying to get the attention of anybody who

would listen, trying to make a case people didn't want to hear.  And if Jan

hadn't been Kerouac's blood and Nicosia the recognized foremost authority on

Kerouac's life nobody would have listened.  But some have listened, with

attending press coverage, and the courts have listened saying in effect

"maybe there is something to look at here".

 

Now Rinaldo is a valued member of this list and while a lot of people fired

back at him for the flooding episode I heard no calls to silence him or ban

him from the Beat-L.  Indeed, as a community, we reached out to him.

 

I think it's time for this community to reach out to Gerry Nicosia.  Is there

really any doubt why he's here?  Is there really any doubt what he's playing

for?  You may think he's misguided, but is there really any doubt as to his

sincerity?

 

The people on the Beat-L make up a core constituency of Kerouac fans from all

over the world.  We're the people who are dedicated enough and passionate

enough to invest our time to keep abreast of situations and interact with one

another on a regular basis.  And if we don't care enough about this

situation, as complicated as it may be, who will?

 

Now I don't know John Sampas.  I wouldn't know him if I fell over him.  But

what if Nicosia is right?

 

Gerry Nicosia has been battling with few allies long enough.  It can't be

easy fighting alone and watching a good friend, the one you've been fighting

alongside of all this while, die in the middle of it.

 

You know, court cases are not an easy thing... believe me, I know, I've been

involved in more than one.  They weigh on you, they wake you up in the middle

of the night, they rob you of your time and of your life.  And sometimes you

feel like chucking it all and giving up simply because you don't want to

fight any more.

 

What would happen if Gerry Nicosia gave up this fight?  And what would happen

if at some point in the future someone intimate to the situation finally let

it be known that the will was in fact forged and John Sampas knew it?  How

would we all feel then?  What loss would we feel?  What injustice?

 

Gerry Nicosia has been on this list for over a week now telling what he knows

and making literally dozens of claims and assertions and all we've heard from

anybody else is "we shouldn't be making a public spectacle" of the situation.

 Any counterclaims made to Nicosia have been side issues and personal beefs.

 No one has made one credible argument that what he is stating is not true.

 And yet I haven't heard a lot of support either.

 

I really can't understand this.  I thought there were a lot of people on this

list who have minds of their own and who are well versed on the details of

all this.  Why aren't we hearing from you?

 

Why are so many people sitting on the fence regarding this keeping their

silence?  What are you afraid of?  What do you have invested that's going to

unravel if you say what you know?

 

This just doesn't make sense to me.  As a group we debate issues ad nauseam

about things we can never affect.  We get into major arguments about whether

Burroughs really meant to kill his wife, a thing none of us can ever prove.

 We shout at each other about "Who is Beat/Who is not Beat".  We fight over

the "Gen X versus the Beats" every other month!  We muster the troops and

fire off e-mails and faxes and phone calls because a college student might

get expelled for reading HOWL in public or a DJ most of us never heard of

gets canned for playing it over the airwaves.

 

This Estate Battle is something we might be able to have an impact on!  This

is something that is real and alive and will make a difference to Kerouac

fans like all of us for decades to come.  There are people out there, I'm

convinced, reading this note right now who know something about this case

that might make a difference.  Why won't you come forward?  Why won't you

talk about what you know?  Maybe you know someone who knows something but you

don't want to ask.  What grips you so tightly that keeps you silent?

 

What shocks me is between all the Scholars and Intimates and Business

Associates and Historians that I thought populated this list is the many who

seem so unwilling to talk about what they know.  Everybody says, "I'm not

going to get into it" or "Let's keep it private" or whatever.

 

I've heard a few people say Jan and Gerry did make a difference with their

high profile protests in the sense that John Sampas has stopped or at least

slowed down on his selling off various artifacts. Everyone seems to agree

this is a good thing, regardless of whether he has a legal right to do so or

regardless of whether the will is legitimate.

 

To those of you who were hurt in some fashion by Jan and Gerry making a noisy

stink at your event I think you've got to look at the greater good here.  It

sounds to me like nobody was listening to them until they started screaming

bloody murder and calling in the press and upsetting people.  And if that is

what it took for the original manuscript of On The Road and other items to

remain out of the hands of private collectors where they would never again

see the light of day then I would think you would have to agree that is a

good thing.

 

And I'm not necessarily even on Nicosia's side on this!  I'm after the truth!

 If you've got something that shows Gerry Nicosia is only in it for the money

or the glory, launch it.  If you can show he's lying about his motives, prove

it!   And if you've got something that shows he's all wet, then show me.

 He's sure opened himself up for it.  And if that is true I for one would

want to know.

 

I think it all boils down to this:  Did Gerry Nicosia and Jan Kerouac step on

a lot of people's toes?  Absolutely!  They made a lot of noise and pissed a

lot of people off, thereby making a lot of enemies as well.  They also

apparently succeeded somewhat in one of their aims which was to shine a light

on the selling of irreplacable items and possibly slowing things down or

delaying them.

 

One of the things I've heard over and over here is "this case is

complicated".  Yes it is complicated.  Life is complicated, human affairs are

complicated - Jack Kerouac himself showed us that over and over again in his

writing which is one of the reasons we love him so.  But to say, "I don't

want to deal with it because it's complicated" is selling yourself short and

just plain lazy.  To simply dismiss the issue because you don't want to be

bothered is not going to make it go away.

 

And if not us, here on the Beat-L, then who?

 

 

Folks, I'll tell ya, if I knew something that would support either Nicosia or

Sampas, something that could make difference in this case and I did not come

forward because I was concerned about my business relationships or my

professional standing or whatever, I could not rest easy with that knowledge.

 

And if I was keeping my silence because I'd had a disagreement or beef with

Nicosia (or Sampas) that had very little to do with the issue at hand I would

be ashamed of myself for letting my fellows and future generations down.

 This situation, though complicated, is too important to posterity to allow

petty squabbles to get in the way.  I would have to come forward with what I

know.

 

 

How will you sleep tonight?

 

 

 

Jerry Cimino

Fog City

 

 

                     "Candor prevents paranoia".

                                                   Allen Ginserg

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 19:17:57 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Matthew S Sackmann <msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>

Subject:      Re: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING

In-Reply-To:  <970505200028_1685986959@emout15.mail.aol.com>

 

>

> Why are so many people sitting on the fence regarding this keeping their

> silence?  What are you afraid of?  What do you have invested that's going to

> unravel if you say what you know?

 

the very fact that i dont know anything is what is going to unravel if i

pop my head in on this debate.  That and the fact that were in the middle

of finals.  Great letter though Jerry and indeed if i had something

important to say regarding the issue believe me i would say it.  But as

for now im just soaking up all emails about it.  I for one really

appreciate the time and effort that Gerry is giving to convince us of the

truth.  (his truth?)  Im just waiting for this whole court case

thing to blow down and im hoping that he remains on the list so we can ask

the Great Kerouac biographer questions about the man himself and not his

estate.

and I'm waiting for the American Boy to take off Beauty's clothes and get

on top of her.

 

matt

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 20:23:28 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Attila Gyenis <GYENIS@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Attila's Questions, Final Chapter

 

In a message dated 97-05-04 17:02:29 EDT, you write:

 

<< attila devasted venice italy in earlier times,

 so i for my ancestor i beg his pardon.. >>

 

For my ancestor, I beg your pardon.

By the way, Attila The Hun was a beat.

enjoy, Attila

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 17:41:59 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING

 

Jerry,

 

You letter very thoughtful and intense and to long to quote.

 

I speak not as a Kerouac expert who would have some really factual

evidence on this but as a fan of Kerouac's.  Most of us on the list

don't have legally compelling facts on this.  I suspect that many of my

fellow listmembers are silent primarily for that reason.

 

What it really seems to come down to is if the will was forged.  I doubt

if anyone on the list has any information on that than we have already

heard.  The other question would be whether artifacts are being sold, is

that legal, and is that proper.  Some may have information on items that

have been sold.  They may have views on whether John Sampas has the

right to sell these things.

 

As very much an outsider on this issue it just seems like an awful mess

that I can't do anything about.  When Jan was still alive and pressing

her claim I waited to hear from some respected somewhat neutral voice

like Allen Ginsberg.  No word was forthcoming.  It's hard not to feel

sorry for Jan, but it seems pretty obvious that Jan's problem stemmed

more from Jack's actions than from anything the Sampas family had done.

It would seem that Jack had the right to mess up his estate, disinherit

his daughter, etc and that this is what he did.  I also thought I was

hearing in this debate a sort of prejedice against the Sampas family

because they were not as hip as Jan's partisans.  Maybe I'm wrong, but

it seemed that way.

 

I haven't heard anyone on the list question Nicosia's great contribution

to Kerouac legacy.  I don't think many doubt his sincerity.  But I don't

know whether he is right and there is a tone which comes from his

statements and Jo Grant's that puts me off. They see a huge conspiracy

of evil folks out there and they are the sole possesors of truth.  Maybe

Rod Anastee and Phil Chaput are trying to hide a terrible wrong, but

Rod's tone of "don't trust me, don't trust them, wait for the facts"

rings truer for me.  Levi's post also suggested that Nicosia is tending

to make enemies out of reasonable people who don't want to be in this

fight. I've seen these estate fights before and they are damn ugly.

Everybody's at least part wrong most of the time.  These are certainly

my own reasons for the silence that you and Moritz find so suprising.

 

I just want to read the books.  I don't really care who gets rich and

rather doubt anyone will.  What's legal may not be fair.  Life isn't

fair. I am certain that more truth will emerge on this, and that even if

I am tired of the argument, it is an important issue for the list to

deal with.

 

Respectfully leaving the field to the experts.

 

James Stauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 20:56:02 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Rod Anstee <Nastees@AOL.COM>

Subject:      LAST "ESTATE" POST/plus DR. SAX!

 

First of all, I was amazed & delighted today, but not totally

surprised, of course, by Charley Plymell's great post on the

subject of his LAST OF THE MOCCASINS vis-a-vis (not to say

"versus") Kerouac's DOCTOR SAX. Obviously it demands a response

in the next short while!

 

However, I wanted to close the JK ESTATE chapter first. I am very

uncomfortable with many of my posts last week on this subject,

including my most recent one, late Saturday night. I stand behind

the opinions that I have expressed recently, and the "facts" I

have attempted to establish, but I feel that within the context

of the Beat-List much of the discussion on this topic has become

entirely too personal, and fully accept my part in this. On

Sunday, I decided to take any further discussion of this issue

with Gerry "Off-List." I'm not sure what I expected by way of a

response (other than, of course, COMPLETE AND UTTER REFUTATION of

my entire argument, complete with references to Nazi history, and

Gerry's domestic situation), but what I rec'd was a letter,

quoting part of my original, private correspondence to him, which

was being simultaneously e-mailed BOTH to me AND to "jogrant" at the

BOOKZEN website. I do not know Mr. Grant personally, but his postings,way

back at the beginning of this thread, struck me right from the

start as essentially being the Gerry Nicosia "take' on the

situation without much in the way of balance or critical

analysis. Anyway, I cannot say I was particularly surprised by this

latest incidence of Gerry's inability to set any limits for

himself -- it is simply that it amounts to the last straw, as far

as I'M personally concerned.

 

I have no way of knowing -- but I hope!? -- that the discussions

of the past week may have convinced at least a few people out

there in Beat-List Land that this whole issue is VERY complicated

and, at its very root, it is a struggle over Money & Power --

nothing new in that, of course! -- but over ENOUGH money & power

that it's become a WAR. One of the first lawyers who ever called

me for comments on this struggle very frankly likened it to the

absolute worst, nastiest divorce case that he had ever

encountered -- AND I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER WHICH SIDE HE WAS

WORKING FOR! But the point is, we all know about the first

casualty of any war.

 

As I said before, I have no way of knowing whether or not

Gabrielle Kerouac's will was a forged document. I also do not

consider myself, at least, a partisan for either side of this

affair -- indeed, I feel utterly safe in asserting that I am on

the "Enemies List" tacked up in both of their clubhouses. I just

feel that whatever TRUTH & JUSTICE may have been there at one

point, in some quasi-objective sense, is no longer obtainable,

and probably no longer exists, legally or morally. And certainly

the characters fighting things out right now are, to my mind,

entirely degraded and transparent as to their motivations and

goals. No heros. No villains. Each side as bad as the other, only

worse.  No matter what anybody tells you about the situation,

they will have reasons for saying what they tell you, and reasons

for leaving out the things they leave out. My mantra.

 

I know that as soon as this is posted, Gerry will write and post

a response, COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY REFUTING everything I've said.

I've only just really come to realize and accept that I can't

help that. No end, no way out.

 

Finally, someone asked earlier how to go about doing the kind of

private research you might want to do in order to form a properly

informed opinion on this issue. I make no grandiose claims, but

for anyone interested, I have about 3 or 4 binders full of

original Gerry Nicosia letters that might help anyone who's still

interested to form an informed opinion of at least his side of

the equation. My archive's still open to the public, too! No permissions

required!

 

JUST KIDDING, Gerry! Why don't we just leave that for our kids' lawyers to

fight over, OK? I expect there'll still be lawyers then.

 

CHEERS. Rod Anstee

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 18:53:45 -0700

Reply-To:     letabor@cruzio.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Re. Movie Star!??

 

inaldo Rasa wrote:

>

> leon,

> are u a star of a movie?

>

> .-

Hi Rinaldo,

 

I waited for awhile before answering because I am not sure how you mean

the question. I know you can't be serious.

 

If life is a movie, then I would say that my role is to be an extra on

the stage with a view. No stardom. Close to some pretty heavy action and

to a few of the star movers and shakers. I learned to appreciate a lot

the roles assigned to me, my destiny, and am quite grateful that I was

not burdened with star roles. I can be and I can do as I choose without

worry that strangers will be uplifted by incorrect interpretations of

me, or be let down by my real actions. Anonymity allows me to keep

experiencing life with freshness. I have seen deadly effects of fame. It

is not easy to deal with. The blessings are overwhelming. Not far from

the surface all kinds of jealousies teem and thrive and bring damage to

the real lives of real people. Even the friends and descendants get

curses mixed in with the blessings they inherited from the famous.

Usually the stars earned the blessings, do not deserve the curses. I am

glad the stars make the world brighter for me also. I am not so sure how

well I could cope with stardom. To have a lot of influence is a

superhuman responsibility. The warmth of interaction, even not face to

face, as is ours here, is strengthening, the lights that we shine over

vast crowds can leave us in vast cold darkness. Do you think all this is

just sour grapes?

 

If your question is about something that I am missing, please explain it

to me. I will appreciate that.

 

BTW it is very clear that my response to your cornix messages, meant

compliments, not to be offensive, RIGHT? Just to make sure, the word

"shit" at the end may have been a poor choice. I just meant to say

that's what we do with everything that we take in, we digest, and we

shit out the rest. I was not offended by your mail. On the contrary, I

thought it was a very effective, humorous, interesting, innovative way

to communicate to the list people. You got across to us just how

intensely you

felt, you made us uneasy a bit and got us to pay serious attention with

lightning quick stabs wrapped in gentle humor and kindness. I do believe

you have a genius for

communicating the way that you do. I am glad you think enough about us

to give of yourself as much as you do.

Peace friend

 

Leon

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 19:09:42 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Re: LAST "ESTATE" POST/plus DR. SAX!

 

 whatever TRUTH & JUSTICE may have been there at one

>point, in some quasi-objective sense, is no longer obtainable,

>and probably no longer exists, legally or morally. And certainly

>the characters fighting things out right now are, to my mind,

>entirely degraded and transparent as to their motivations and

>goals. No heros. No villains. Each side as bad as the other, only

>worse.

>

 

        The above words of Mr. Anstee are so utterly self-righteous that I

wonder where he's been spending his free time.

        Not content with belittling the efforts of Jan Kerouac, and myself,

to preserve the Jack Kerouac archive, he now attempts to play God, and to

tell us that Truth and Justice no longer exist, so don't even try to attain

them, gang, let's all just give up and let the world go to hell!

        Nothing is right, nothing is wrong, and Mr. Anstee created the world

in 7 days.

        There is a right and a wrong in this world, most of the time, and

I've put forth my arguments about why I think preserving the Jack Kerouac

archive in a library is the right thing to do, giving Paul Blake, Jr., a

share of the Kerouac estate is the right thing to do, and letting Jan

Kerouac have a decent burial (not on top of her grandmother to save two

slots in the Kerouac family plot for the Sampas family) is the right thing

to do.

        I'm still waiting for Mr. Anstee, Mr. Chaput, and whatever other

Sampas supporters lurk hereabouts to come out and tell me 1) why it is

better for John Sampas to sell off the Kerouac archive to dealers and

collectors for maximum profits; why it is better that the actual Kerouac

blood family get no money from his estate so that all the money can go to

the Sampases (Jan never got a penny from his estate, she got all her money

through the federal copyright law, and Paul Blake, Jr. got nothing at all);

3) why it is better for John Sampas to control Kerouac scholarship, the

Kerouac burial plot, and all other things Kerouacian when there are still

living Kerouac's around.

        In rhetoric they call Mr. Anstee's and Mr. Chaput's technique

"argument ad hominum"--in Latin that means "against the man."  When you

don't have any good arguments to put forth, you call the other guy

"degraded" or "power-mad" or whatever.  I'm still waiting for some real

argument on their part.

 

        As for sending Joe Grant a piece of his email to me, I apologize,

Rod, but I've been blasted by so many of you guys so quickly that I

originally thought your earlier letter to me was from the CUNY BEAT LIST and

that Joe had already seen the whole text, so it was no big deal letting him

see the part I was responding to.  You had asserted that Joe was brainwashed

by me, so I figured I might as well give you an equal chance (just kidding).

 

        The truth is I am getting a little punchy from being pinned down in

this ambush.  I've answered probably over 100 questions in 10 days, while my

opponents answer nothing.  Sampas won't tell us what he's sold, Anstee won't

tell us why he won't publish his essay called "1400 dots" (or even let us

glimpse it here) about how Ann Charters censored the SELECTED LETTERS at

Sampas's behest, and Chaput won't say why I should donate money to a

committee that's pulled every dirty trick in the book to keep me out of

Lowell--and finally had the financial plug pulled on them by the National

Park Service for their questionable dealings.

        OK, fellas, you've had your crack at me.  I'll answer more of your

questions after you answer a few of mine.

        As for Rod revealing the hundreds (thousands?) of documents I kindly

provided him over the past 13 years, he can do what he wishes with them,

though I hope he'll put them in a library and not auction them off to

collectors and dealers, like his hero.  I have nothing to hide, and all said

and done will probably lose money on Jack Kerouac till the day I die.

        My wife isn't too happy about that fact, but I care deeply about the

man and his work, what he stood for, the spirituality he boosted in this

country at a time when materialism had just about won the day, and the gift

of truth he gave us all.

        Jan cared about that too, and I'll go the distance for that lady.

At least I'm doing my best.

        Adios, guys!  As for Mr. Sampas, I'm still here, ready and waiting,

to assist you in getting the Kerouac archive into a library.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 21:08:10 -0500

Reply-To:     race@midusa.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: Looking For Jack: The Literary Influences of Jack Kerouac

 

Rinaldo Rasa wrote:

>

> are u a horse-race?

 

YES !!!!!  Make your bets now ... i'll hold the money. :)

 

david

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 23:32:22 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Diane Carter <dcarter@TOGETHER.NET>

Subject:      Re: Dr. Sax vs. Last of the Moccasins

 

Pamela Beach Plymell wrote:

>

> Yes, I have LAST OF THE MOCCASINS here, red cover, $3 on the back...I haven't

> read LAST since about 1975. (SAX I re-read pretty regularly.)

 

I know that someone may have asked this before but after an unsuccessful

attempt to locate the Last of the Moccasins in a bookstore, I was

wondering if it is still in print, and can it be ordered from any

bookstore?

Diane Carter

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 22:58:37 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Michael Stutz <stutz@DSL.ORG>

Subject:      Re: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING

In-Reply-To:  <970505200028_1685986959@emout15.mail.aol.com>

 

On Mon, 5 May 1997, Jerry Cimino wrote:

 

> I've been thinking a lot about the Kerouac Estate Battle and I've got to tell

> you I've been very troubled by the whole thing for a lot of reasons.

[snip]

> I think it's time for this community to reach out to Gerry Nicosia.  Is there

> really any doubt why he's here?  Is there really any doubt what he's playing

> for?  You may think he's misguided, but is there really any doubt as to his

> sincerity?

[snip]

> What would happen if Gerry Nicosia gave up this fight?

[snip]

>  No one has made one credible argument that what he is stating is not true.

>  And yet I haven't heard a lot of support either.

[snip]

> I really can't understand this.

[snip]

> And I'm not necessarily even on Nicosia's side on this!  I'm after the truth!

[snip]

> And if not us, here on the Beat-L, then who?

 

Jerry-- thanks for the post that summed up what I've been thinking to a T.

While I've been real interested in what's been going on, I haven't wanted to

get in the middle of it or take sides even because it's not my place to --

all I know about it is from these messages, and I was there at NYU when

Gerry and Jan got kicked out, I was real confused -- there's Ann Charters

and Ginsberg etc. just sitting there looking on while Kerouac's daughter &

biographer's being taken out by police, what's going on? -- I'm actually

really sick of all the bickering but it would be nice to see some kind of

resolution. It could be just phantoms of my imagining but I get the feeling

that people who know a good deal about this, or at least people who _should_

know, are not saying anything. Maybe with good reason -- making accusations

in a public, archived forum is never a popular move -- but I have no idea

what's "really" going on in this Estate battle (besides the messages already

posted to this list), and now that it's been dragged this far out into the

open there won't be peace until there is a complete public resolution of the

situation.

 

 

>                      "Candor prevents paranoia".

Oh, and the whole time I was reading your post, this was the quote that kept

popping into my head.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 23:13:01 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Various and Sundry--Mostly Pleas for Help :-)

 

Bonni: Good advice  from B's daughter to wait a year.

Delightful story about Phil Whalen   He might have thought you were casting

him as a wax role modeloo. I still have his Blake book wth his name signed

neatly in it. I remember his cottage maybe Noe Valley with a little flower

garden in front. I was have rather a bad day on Sandoz Lysergic Acid when I

went to see him. He put his hand around the back of my neck and made me look

at a flower until I calmed down.

C. Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 22:12:52 -0500

Reply-To:     race@midusa.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         RACE --- <race@MIDUSA.NET>

Subject:      Re: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING

 

Michael Stutz wrote:

>

> On Mon, 5 May 1997, Jerry Cimino wrote:

>

> > I've been thinking a lot about the Kerouac Estate Battle and I've got to

 tell

> > you I've been very troubled by the whole thing for a lot of reasons.

> [snip]

> > I think it's time for this community to reach out to Gerry Nicosia.  Is

 there

> > really any doubt why he's here?  Is there really any doubt what he's playing

> > for?  You may think he's misguided, but is there really any doubt as to his

> > sincerity?

> [snip]

> > What would happen if Gerry Nicosia gave up this fight?

> [snip]

> >  No one has made one credible argument that what he is stating is not true.

> >  And yet I haven't heard a lot of support either.

> [snip]

> > I really can't understand this.

> [snip]

> > And I'm not necessarily even on Nicosia's side on this!  I'm after the

 truth!

> [snip]

> > And if not us, here on the Beat-L, then who?

>

> Jerry-- thanks for the post that summed up what I've been thinking to a T.

> While I've been real interested in what's been going on, I haven't wanted to

> get in the middle of it or take sides even because it's not my place to --

> all I know about it is from these messages, and I was there at NYU when

> Gerry and Jan got kicked out, I was real confused -- there's Ann Charters

> and Ginsberg etc. just sitting there looking on while Kerouac's daughter &

> biographer's being taken out by police, what's going on? -- I'm actually

> really sick of all the bickering but it would be nice to see some kind of

> resolution. It could be just phantoms of my imagining but I get the feeling

> that people who know a good deal about this, or at least people who _should_

> know, are not saying anything. Maybe with good reason -- making accusations

> in a public, archived forum is never a popular move -- but I have no idea

> what's "really" going on in this Estate battle (besides the messages already

> posted to this list), and now that it's been dragged this far out into the

> open there won't be peace until there is a complete public resolution of the

> situation.

>

> >                      "Candor prevents paranoia".

> Oh, and the whole time I was reading your post, this was the quote that kept

> popping into my head.

 

 

I seriously doubt that this issue will EVER be RESOLVED.  Perhaps

history will provide some resolution but my guess is that the divisions

created during a legal dispute concerning Kerouac's Things may spillover

into divisions over scholarship (if they haven't already).  My

perception of this thread is that I've learned a lot that I didn't know

up to this point, but i seriously doubt that i am going to learn much

more.  i applaud the notion of sending it backchannel.  i might have

been too subtle earlier but my Nice Words post was about this

controversy.  Nothing against any of the major or minor characters.

 

david

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 20:17:03 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         "Steve Smith a.k.a. Whiskey Wordsmith" <psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>

Subject:      Re: LAST "ESTATE" POST/plus DR. SAX!

In-Reply-To:  <199705060209.TAA23409@germany.it.earthlink.net>

 

Dear Mr. Nicosia,

 

yeah, i could just do the gerry or the gerald--but i guess i come from

the old school where guys you don't know are Mistered; lost art, i think.

of course the other reason i mister you is that i regard your bio of jk

one of the finest critical biographies i have ever had the pelasure to

read.  i go back to it so often that it is now in the hallowed halls of

the most-dog-eared books on my shelf; it is not only informative and

sensitive and well-researched, it is also full of soul--obviously

kerouac's, but also your own.

 

i just want to say that i have been reading your posts quite avidly--and

those from the Other Camp as well.

 

if tone and substance mean anything anymore, and i steadfastly think that

they do, your willingness to come on beat-l and talk and answer and tell

is worthy of many kudos.  the tone of the posts that bomb you, that

pretend to preseent a balanced view of oppositon to your

position--these posts are vitriolic and angry and snotty--they come

up smelling anything but like a rose, from guys lobbing grenades your

way.  you came on list and said (pretty much) that anything goes...you

were and are willing to talk and answer... good for you--and good for us.

 

i, for one, have enjoyed--and been educated--by your being here.  i don't

quite yet know where i stand on the jk estate matter...but your reasoned

(and quite astute and fair) position is quite persuasive.

 

that does not mean i will not listen to the other side--

 

but the nub of the whole thing seems to be that you favor one jk archive

and keeping the goods together... this is an honorable position.

 

the folk who have been stridently whacking at you are a bit too snippy and

acidic (yes, rhetoric does

include notions of ethos and pathos and logos!) for this pair of eyes and

ears. they may flog their version of the logos, but....they seem much

happier with snide asides and non sequitors--they zero in on the nicosia

as executor angle--and this gets way in to straw-man and such fallacies.

 

i would like both sides to keep talking... but, please, no more cheap

shots from what is starting to look like the sampas-camp peanut gallery.

 

thanks--

 

best,

steve smith

english dept

portland state university

portland, oregon

 

 

On Mon, 5 May 1997, Gerald Nicosia wrote:

 

>  whatever TRUTH & JUSTICE may have been there at one

> >point, in some quasi-objective sense, is no longer obtainable,

> >and probably no longer exists, legally or morally. And certainly

> >the characters fighting things out right now are, to my mind,

> >entirely degraded and transparent as to their motivations and

> >goals. No heros. No villains. Each side as bad as the other, only

> >worse.

> >

>

>         The above words of Mr. Anstee are so utterly self-righteous that I

> wonder where he's been spending his free time.

>         Not content with belittling the efforts of Jan Kerouac, and myself,

> to preserve the Jack Kerouac archive, he now attempts to play God, and to

> tell us that Truth and Justice no longer exist, so don't even try to attain

> them, gang, let's all just give up and let the world go to hell!

>         Nothing is right, nothing is wrong, and Mr. Anstee created the world

> in 7 days.

>         There is a right and a wrong in this world, most of the time, and

> I've put forth my arguments about why I think preserving the Jack Kerouac

> archive in a library is the right thing to do, giving Paul Blake, Jr., a

> share of the Kerouac estate is the right thing to do, and letting Jan

> Kerouac have a decent burial (not on top of her grandmother to save two

> slots in the Kerouac family plot for the Sampas family) is the right thing

> to do.

>         I'm still waiting for Mr. Anstee, Mr. Chaput, and whatever other

> Sampas supporters lurk hereabouts to come out and tell me 1) why it is

> better for John Sampas to sell off the Kerouac archive to dealers and

> collectors for maximum profits; why it is better that the actual Kerouac

> blood family get no money from his estate so that all the money can go to

> the Sampases (Jan never got a penny from his estate, she got all her money

> through the federal copyright law, and Paul Blake, Jr. got nothing at all);

> 3) why it is better for John Sampas to control Kerouac scholarship, the

> Kerouac burial plot, and all other things Kerouacian when there are still

> living Kerouac's around.

>         In rhetoric they call Mr. Anstee's and Mr. Chaput's technique

> "argument ad hominum"--in Latin that means "against the man."  When you

> don't have any good arguments to put forth, you call the other guy

> "degraded" or "power-mad" or whatever.  I'm still waiting for some real

> argument on their part.

>

>         As for sending Joe Grant a piece of his email to me, I apologize,

> Rod, but I've been blasted by so many of you guys so quickly that I

> originally thought your earlier letter to me was from the CUNY BEAT LIST and

> that Joe had already seen the whole text, so it was no big deal letting him

> see the part I was responding to.  You had asserted that Joe was brainwashed

> by me, so I figured I might as well give you an equal chance (just kidding).

>

>         The truth is I am getting a little punchy from being pinned down in

> this ambush.  I've answered probably over 100 questions in 10 days, while my

> opponents answer nothing.  Sampas won't tell us what he's sold, Anstee won't

> tell us why he won't publish his essay called "1400 dots" (or even let us

> glimpse it here) about how Ann Charters censored the SELECTED LETTERS at

> Sampas's behest, and Chaput won't say why I should donate money to a

> committee that's pulled every dirty trick in the book to keep me out of

> Lowell--and finally had the financial plug pulled on them by the National

> Park Service for their questionable dealings.

>         OK, fellas, you've had your crack at me.  I'll answer more of your

> questions after you answer a few of mine.

>         As for Rod revealing the hundreds (thousands?) of documents I kindly

> provided him over the past 13 years, he can do what he wishes with them,

> though I hope he'll put them in a library and not auction them off to

> collectors and dealers, like his hero.  I have nothing to hide, and all said

> and done will probably lose money on Jack Kerouac till the day I die.

>         My wife isn't too happy about that fact, but I care deeply about the

> man and his work, what he stood for, the spirituality he boosted in this

> country at a time when materialism had just about won the day, and the gift

> of truth he gave us all.

>         Jan cared about that too, and I'll go the distance for that lady.

> At least I'm doing my best.

>         Adios, guys!  As for Mr. Sampas, I'm still here, ready and waiting,

> to assist you in getting the Kerouac archive into a library.

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 23:22:54 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING

 

I don't know anything about the issue, and I'm known for saying what I feel.

I think you make a good appeal. When it plays out, we'll see the Johnsons and

the Shits.

C. Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 23:37:01 -0400

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Pamela Beach Plymell <CVEditions@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Dr. Sax vs. Last of the Moccasins

 

The City Lights edition (the one in the post) is out of print. The new

edition is available through Waterrow (waterrow@aol.com).

Pam Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 21:08:59 -0700

Reply-To:     stauffer@pacbell.net

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject:      Re: Dr. Sax vs. Last of the Moccasins

 

Or through your favorite local bookseller.  But you might have to make

them look hard.  It wasn't showing on the store's computer but it was in

the most recent print "Books in Print" when I ordered it today.

 

James

 

 The new

> edition is available through Waterrow (waterrow@aol.com).

> Pam Plymell

=========================================================================

Date:         Tue, 6 May 1997 00:14:20 +0000

Reply-To:     morocco@walrus.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gregory Severance <morocco@WALRUS.COM>

Subject:      Elegiac Feelings

Comments: cc: BOHEMIAN@maelstrom.stjohns.edu

 

The following poem is part of a web poem which can be found at:

 

http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/bl/elegiac.html

 

This was composed last year.

--------------------

backyard in brooklyn

by Gregory Severance

 

oooh oooh

 

brooklyn sirens squint

against what brilliance of tree on Flatbush Avenue

history murmuring

sirens wailing wailing sirens sirens wailing

 

steel pistols resting on a pillow

owning nature the buildings

sweet lonely fallen on RR track

would deny loveliness in dream moment

 

botanical soundings clucking asked me

who sees your bodies

this dream in a circle

loveliness in mortal form

 

I travelled the entire length of every

kindness past

staggering from levee to levee

always denying inspired roads

Kesey's in Oregon the war the war

is reborn

 

cherry bare breasted woman statue

wept with tears without tears

I sobbed my sins

to La Guardia birds unfamiliar sirens wailing

 

who cringes during discourse of spirit

the great in heart horrible instead

peace and acceptance

a phantom skeleton

meaty baby

 

dream moment

military tyranny arms

murmuring history

world is released

green with leaves

from flesh forms

 

laden with white blossoms

prayers completed the breasts

I pursued delusion consciously

some gathering on every road the state of kansas pavements galore

 

I lay trembling

war-fear ended

 

* + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + *

Gregory Severance

morocco@walrus.com

http://www.walrus.com/~morocco/

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"Leaving Texas, fourth day of July."

-- Grateful Dead ["Jack Straw"]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"... a gallon of desperate whiskey a day it took

ye to look that America in its disembodied eye"

-- Gregory Corso ["Elegiac Feelings American"]

* + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + *

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 21:01:04 -0700

Reply-To:     letabor@cruzio.com

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Leon Tabory <letabor@CRUZIO.COM>

Subject:      Levi's Question

 

Dear Gerald,

 

It well may be that it is just wonderful that you are fighting the war

that you do. It seems that everyone is acknowledging at least that we

all are already beneficiaries of the way you have forced hands to give

up more to the public. I don't doubt your sincerity and your belief in

your cause. If the will was forged I would support you as much as I

could to go on and to win the case. I do not wish to add disheartening

burdens to your shoulders.

 

BTW, I do not concur with some opinions that have been expressed, that

the courts have the power to determine the truth. I have had lots of

court experience on various drug related charges, have dealt with quite

a few attorneys. Only one of them insisted that he only wanted to know

the truth. Let's say he didn't want to be told that what he was given to

present was not the truth. He had to be very stupid to believe the lies

my witnesses were telling him. Every other lawyer that I had was

insisting that you have to fight fire with fire and the other side lies,

forcing us to, that you have to appear believable to win and to not even

hint at the truth if it doesn't appear believable to the limited rules

of evidence of the judge or jury.

 

What is believable to judges and juries has to do more with how they

interpret artificially recreated situations, that often exaggerate minor

matters and rule out of court factors that are essential to understand

what was really going on. Some doubts may never clear up, even though

the courts are forced to make up their minds one way or another. Should

the courts not find sufficient evidence for forgery, from having read

carefully your material and your opponents' material, I would still

believe there is a possibility that the courts did not uncover the

truth.

 

I still have some nagging questions though about whether your opponents

are given to do things that you would not. I asked you this morning to

clarify your answer to Levi's question. Since you didn't answer, I went

back over it to see if can tell better what you said. The only

conclusion that I can come to is that you are suggesting that Levi

wanted you to release material to the public, but that you couldn't do

it for legal reasons. Are you saying that Levi wanted you to do

something illegal, that you explained to him that you couldn't do it

because it was illegal, and that he still wanted you to do it? I just

don't believe that of Levi.

 

Unless you explain it better to me, this is the conclusion that I am

forced to live with. And if that is the case then I must conclude that

you are likely yourself to do things that are no more right than what

you tell us to expect from your opponents.

 

I hope that you will show me where I am wrong here. I also realize that

there may be other reasons that make it difficult for you to explain

further. There may also be quite sound legal reasons that prevent your

opponents from entering any discussion before the case is over. I will

try to keep an open mind. I do not feel that the universe owes me

explanations and revelations about anyone's shortcomings or mistakes.

 

Regardless of what the outcome might be, I admire your courage,

perseverance, and sincere efforts to educate us to your perspective. I

have also enjoyed your passionate style of advocacy. Thanks for your

readable, enlightening posts, even if I wish there was less personal

acrimony expressed. Any worthy cause would be very lucky to have you as

an advocate.

leon

 

 

This morning's post:

> I continue to pay reluctant close attention to this very tasteless, rude

> incessant intrusion that we have been bombarded with lately. At the same

> time I am also grateful for the information that broadens my

> understanding of matters beat, writing, publishing, authoring, and life

> at the end of the twentieth century. Not just in the USA. I am

> fascinated by the energy, intelligence and devotion, seemingly to the

> cause. What cause, a cause that I haven't completely bought yet. Even

> forgetting the objections raised by Rod and others. Comes now Levi's

> entry, and what's this? Do I see a stumble? Do you consider this an

> adequate response? A legal right is sufficient reason for you and is

> there a total absence of need for moral reason(s) when it comes to your

> actions? Am I overlooking something here?

> leon

>

> .-

>

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 21:28:05 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      Weinberg's corrections

 

To followers of the Beat List Kerouac Estate battles:

 

Mr. Weinberg asks for the following corrections:

 

1) he works out of Sudbury, Mass, not Fitchburg

 

2) Richard Marcel did purchase Kerouac items.  My clumsy prose (excuse me)

made it sound as if he were one of the dealers who refused to buy any

because the prices were too high.  There were definitely dealers who claimed

the latter, like Peter Howard of Serendipity in Berkeley.

 

3)  Mr. Weinberg only revealed to me the names of customers who had

consented to have their names made public.  He wants it known that he

respects the privacy of his customers if they require privacy.

 

4) Mr. Weinberg completed the sale of BOOK OF DREAMS to a private collector.

The sale of MEXICO CITY BLUES to a private collector was almost complete

when Mr. Sampas decided to raise the price.  To the best of Mr. Weinberg's

knowledge, the collector then apparently bought the MCB notebooks directly

from Mr. Sampas so that Mr. Weinberg's commission would not have to be paid,

thus lowering the overall price.

 

5)  Mr. Weinberg was not fired.  He states that he quit working for Mr.

Sampas because the job was becoming too stressful.  As reasons for this

problem, he cites Mr. Sampas continually raising the price of Kerouac items

(thus making it difficult for Mr. Weinberg to keep on good terms with his

clients) and Mr. Sampas pulling out of a deal with the Bancroft Library in

Berkeley that he (Mr. Weinberg) had worked on for several months.  Mr.

Weinberg apparently had the Bancroft ready to come across with a million

dollars for the entire Kerouac archive in 1991, but at some point late in

the negotiations, Mr. Sampas ceased cooperating.

        I find this last tidbit of literary history fascinating, since Jan

Kerouac later attempted to get her father's archive into the very same

library, not knowing that Jeffrey Weinberg had tried to talk Mr. Sampas into

placing it there three years earlier.  Jan liked the "feel" of the

Bancroft--marble and old wood and beautiful glass display cases--and she

especially liked librarian Tony Bliss, who with his balding head, moustache,

round spectacles, and gentle voice was like a father figure to her (though

he looked nothing like Jack!).

 

        I apologize for these errors.  My only excuse is having had to pour

out ten thousand words on this subject in ten days, which did not always

give me time to resort to years of notes in literally hundreds of

folders--but to rely on that most fallible of allies, one's memory.

        There was only one Memory Babe, folks, and we know that even HE got

it wrong once in a while.

 

        I would like to add, again, that I hold no grudge against Mr.

Weinberg.  Whenever I get too high and mighty in my artistic morality, my

wife, who is a businessperson, reminds me that it is the job of

businesspeople to make money for their clients.  What impresses me now is

the sincerity of Mr. Weinberg in wishing to end the piecemeal selling-off of

Kerouac items, and to clear a way for bigger and better Kerouac scholarship

in the future.

        No one is asking Mr. Sampas (or Mr. Nicosia) (or Mr. or Ms. Anyone)

to stop making money.  Those of us who care about Kerouac scholarship are

simply asking him to trade off a part of those windfall profits in the

interests of posterity.  Too much to ask?

=========================================================================

Date:         Mon, 5 May 1997 21:28:33 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

From:         Gerald Nicosia <gnicosia@EARTHLINK.NET>

Subject:      THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING

 

Mr. Jerry Cimino's four page soliloquy made me feel that the last ten days

of pouring out my heart here, and taking flak from every direction, was

worth it to have touched one person that deeply.

 

Mr. Cimino understands what is going on.  Jan Kerouac was not trying to make

a million dollars when she knew she had months, or at most a few more years,

to live. Gerald Nicosia is not trying to run the world; he'd like to get

back to his book on the healing of Vietnam veterans, called HOME TO WAR, and

also get back to his family and the demands of his two-year-old daughter Wu

Ji.  No one is asking to crucify John Sampas.

 

We're asking for what should have been done years ago: the permanent

preservation and scholarly access to Jack Kerouac's magnificent literary

archive, the life's work of a true American literary genius.

 

And maybe a little justice for the Kerouac family.

 

Mr. Cimino knows that is not such a terrible thing.  And he knows that Jan

Kerouac and I asked quietly at first, with no results, so our voices kept

rising.  Maybe they rose too loud.  And maybe it's time to lower them again.

 

But the BIG QUESTION IS:  Will they EVER be heard???

 



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