beat list 1996

This panel will potentially consider the total opus of

William S. Burroughs, covering the forty-year span from

_Junky_ (1953) to _The Cat Inside_ (1992). The panel will

look at his work in any of the various media of the literary

novel, science fiction, new journalism, letters, diaries,

interviews, films, screenplays, drawing, music, or acting.

The panel hopes to locate Burroughs's work within such

larger theoretical questions as genre, the "Beat Generation"

movement, postmodernism, mixed media, politics, homosexuality,

addiction, technology and society, and cultural iconography.

The panel might also consider Burroughs's roots in early

twentieth-century avant-garde fiction and his profound effect

both specifically on later authors (from canonical

postmodernists to the currently-vogue "transgressive fiction"

of the 1990s) and on contemporary American culture generally.

Douglas G. Baldwin

394 Manor Dr.

Nazareth, PA 18064

(610) 746-3684

dougbald@minerva.cis.yale.edu

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:34:59 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Re: Burroughs/Beat

In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:24:00 -0500 from <SCHMID@UBVMS>

Ah c'mon now! Lost Generation, Beat Generation, Romantic

Movement(English), Generation of 98 -- all of these are just convenient

ways of grouping writers for study and discussion. In the case of the

above examples, the writers happened to be in the same place at the same

time. They knew each other and read each other's work. There were some

similar concerns and some great difference between them. I'm much more

interested in Ginsberg and Kerouac than in Burroughs, although I've read

all of Burroughs' major work and the major biographical and

criticalstudies. My interest in the major writers led me to other

writers in the group whose work I greatly enjoyed including John Clellon

Holmes, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, and Diane Di Prima. Studying these

writers in a group shouldn't and doesn't pigeonhole them for the most

part. On the contrary, it just lends an additional, wider context for

study and comparison. Let's not take all of these labels too seriously.

=========================================================================

Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 10:05:10 PST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Comments: SCRUZA HRA354 08/23/96 10:04:17 HW1SSW1

From: "HRA354@SCRUZA" <SCRUZA.HRA354@HW1.CAHWNET.GOV>

Subject: Other voices, other rooms

Every time I read of the death of another icon, I think of what

is lost. Stories, for one item.

And so I began thinking about a way to gather the stories, not the

few for publication, but the many for posterity. Nerdnosh is such

a way.

A cybercampfire on the wires, Nerdnosh is a friendly site where

we swap tales, tending more towards the anecdotal, the journal,

than the fable or fictional. Since my own coming of age was

during the fifties, that's the era I am most interested in.

Anybody is welcome, but I want to extend a special invitation

to anyone who has a personal interaction with the era or its

artists. This doesn't conflict with the current list; here I

might contribute an appraisal of the many segments of "Visions

of Cody"; on the Nosh I would more likely tell you about the

time Philip Lamantia stopped by an apartment in North Beach where

Ann Murphy lived and Carolyn Cassady lived to speak of poets and

other matters.

The Nerdnosh stories are stockpiled in our Attic:

http://www.netins.net/showcase/nerdnosh

and you can be part of it by sending the command

subscribe nerdnosh

end

majordomo@story.nerdnosh.org

I'd love to see you there.

Thank you,

Tim Bowden

mailto:tcbowden@ix.netcom.com

=========================================================================

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 10:45:01 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "ALAN C. REESE" <S72UREE@TOWSONVX.BITNET>

Subject: Re: Other voices, other rooms

Other voices, more clutter.

Please stay around your campfire and stop nosing around cluttering the

airwaves if you ain't adding to the discourse.

We could all add our own little ads for our own enterprises, but then it

wouldn't be BEAT-L would it? It would be ME-L,or in NERDNOSH's case

TCBOWDEN-L.

Sorry to bitch and moan, but the irrelevant self promotion seems a bit

arrogant.

=========================================================================

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 08:52:21 -0600

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Peter Scott <scottp@MOONDOG.USASK.CA>

Subject: Jack Kerouac's Road: A Franco-American Odyssey

This will be show on the Canadian cable channel Bravo!

29 Aug 96

08:00PM Jack Kerouac's Road: A Franco-American Odyssey

Duration:01:00

Documentary exploring the father of the beatnik writers, author of the

classic novel, "On The Road".

=========================================================================

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 11:05:26 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "J.D. P. Lafrance" <J.D._P._Lafrance@RIDLEY.ON.CA>

Organization: Ridley College

Subject: Re: Jack Kerouac's Road: A Franco-American Odyssey

Peter Scott writes:

> This will be show on the Canadian cable channel Bravo!

> 29 Aug 96

> 08:00PM Jack Kerouac's Road: A Franco-American Odyssey

> Duration:01:00

> Documentary exploring the father of the beatnik writers, author of the

> classic novel, "On The Road".

which is then subsequently followed by HEART BEAT - the film adaptation of

Carolyn Cassady's book about life with Neal Cassady and Jack Kerouac - played by

Nick Nolte and John Heard respectively...

bfn,

JDL

=========================================================================

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 21:24:11 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Jeff Rice <afn49457@AFN.ORG>

Subject: Kerouac

Comments: To: BEAT-L%cunyvm.BITNET@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu

I'm new to this list. Is there any discussion going on right now about

Kerouac?

=========================================================================

Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 20:25:00 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject: Re: Kerouac

>I'm new to this list. Is there any discussion going on right now about

>Kerouac?

Who? Who's that?

=========================================================================

Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 14:41:41 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Jeff Rice <afn49457@AFN.ORG>

Subject: Re: Kerouac

Comments: To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"

<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>

Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L

<BEAT-L%CUNYVM@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>

In-Reply-To: <v01510100ae45195da9e1@[128.125.222.92]>

On Sat, 24 Aug 1996, Timothy K. Gallaher wrote:

> >I'm new to this list. Is there any discussion going on right now about

> >Kerouac?

> Who? Who's that?

it's me. the new guy. can you please answer my question?

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 07:55:48 +1100

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Duncan Gray <duncang@ENTO.CSIRO.AU>

Subject: Allen Ginsburg..Australia

The ABC has got a show about Allen Ginsburg tonight, it's on at midnight.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Duncan Gray

Stored Grain Research Laboratory

CSIRO Division of Entomology, GPO Box 1700, Canberra ACT 2601

Ph. (06) 246 4178 Fax (06) 246 4202

----------------------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 19:08:58 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "W. Luther Jett" <MagenDror@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re Kerouac

Comments: To: afn49457@afn.org

>>>I'm new to this list. Is there any discussion going on right >>>now about

Kerouac?

>> Who? Who's that?

>it's me. the new guy. can you please answer my question?

You apparently just missed an interesting exchange about Kerouac and Buddhism

(i.e. what influenced his interest in it?). But stick around - It'll come up

again. As will a wealth of topics Kerouacian and otherwise.

=========================================================================

Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 19:39:53 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Ed Hertzog <exh112@PSU.EDU>

Subject: Re: Re Kerouac

Comments: To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"

<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>

>>>>I'm new to this list. Is there any discussion going on right >>>now about

>Kerouac?

>>> Who? Who's that?

>>it's me. the new guy. can you please answer my question?

There doesn't have to be a specific conversation going on -- you can

initiate whatever you wish regarding Beat topics whenever. There usually are

few good threads going on at once though.

===========================

I do not advocate the initiation of force or

violence to accomplish any political, social, or

economic goal under any circumstance.

_______________________________

Ed Hertzog A= A

exh112@psu.edu

Without Prejudice: UCC 1-207

______________________________

"Let us consider for a moment the statement:

'There is no objective reality.' Now, if we

consider that to be a fact and ponder the

statement it immediately disproves itself.

The statment would have to be false because,

by definition, a fact must be objective; hence...

________________________________

"Does the government fear us? Or do we fear

the government? When the people

fear the government, tyranny has found victory.

The federal government

is our servant, not our master!"

- Thomas Jefferson

_____________________________

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:29:48 +0200

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Moritz Rossbach <moro0000@STUD.UNI-SB.DE>

Subject: GonzoJounalism still Beat ?!

Comments: To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"

<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@listserv.gmd.de>

Hi Guys,

i recently read lots of stuff from a late 60s writer called Hunter S.

Thompson, who, i think kinda beat-like, travelled through the states,

took a whole lotta drugs and wrote books, combining fiction with serious

journalism. levi asher mentions him in his ladder-days beat authors on

literary kicks and i wonder what you guys think !

Mit freundlichem Gruss

Moritz Rossbach

eMail moro0000@stud.uni-sb.de

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 09:42:31 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Jeff Rice <afn49457@AFN.ORG>

Comments: To: BEAT-L%cunyvm.BITNET@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu

To all of you on the beat list, my appologies. Didn't mean to come off so

strong like that. Sorry about that Tim.

To Antoine:

afn is the Alachua Free net- the free internet provider in Alachua County,

Florida.

"I accept lostness forever"

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 13:25:07 CST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Bob Jordan <enjordan@ALPHA.NLU.EDU>

Subject: Re: GonzoJounalism still Beat ?!

If Hunter isn't beat, no one is. Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas is in many

ways an extreme extension of On the Road. Better drugs and less inhibited

times for Hunter and his lawyer. Regards, Bob Jordan

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 15:24:13 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Jeff Rice <afn49457@AFN.ORG>

Subject: Re: GonzoJounalism still Beat ?!

Comments: To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"

<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>

Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L

<BEAT-L%CUNYVM@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>

In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.3.91.960826142019.28460B-100000@stud.uni-sb.de>

On Mon, 26 Aug 1996, Moritz Rossbach wrote:

> Hi Guys,

> i recently read lots of stuff from a late 60s writer called Hunter S.

> Thompson, who, i think kinda beat-like, travelled through the states,

> took a whole lotta drugs and wrote books, combining fiction with serious

> journalism. levi asher mentions him in his ladder-days beat authors on

> literary kicks and i wonder what you guys think !

> Mit freundlichem Gruss

> Moritz Rossbach

> eMail moro0000@stud.uni-sb.de

Moritz: Hunter is from the New Journalism group. When the beats were out, he

was either in high school (maybe) or in the service.

But Hunter is nothing like any of the beat writers.

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 17:41:20 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Bob Whiteley <ai763@FREENET.HAMILTON.ON.CA>

Subject: Re: GonzoJounalism still Beat ?!

Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L

<BEAT-L%CUNYVM@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca>

In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.3.91.960826142019.28460B-100000@stud.uni-sb.de>

lthough Thompson may have come after the Beats, he was heavily

influenced by Jack Kerouac. In Robert Draper's biography of Rolling

Stone Magazine Thompson is quoted that "Kerouac turned me on to the idea

that writing was fun,"..."that you wrote about what you did."

All my best

B.Whiteley

On Mon, 26 Aug 1996, Moritz Rossbach wrote:

> Hi Guys,

> i recently read lots of stuff from a late 60s writer called Hunter S.

> Thompson, who, i think kinda beat-like, travelled through the states,

> took a whole lotta drugs and wrote books, combining fiction with serious

> journalism. levi asher mentions him in his ladder-days beat authors on

> literary kicks and i wonder what you guys think !

> Mit freundlichem Gruss

> Moritz Rossbach

> eMail moro0000@stud.uni-sb.de

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 15:09:15 PST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Comments: SCRUZA HRA354 08/26/96 15:08:27 HW1SSW1

From: "HRA354@SCRUZA" <SCRUZA.HRA354@HW1.CAHWNET.GOV>

Subject: Re: Other voices, other rooms

*** Forwarding note from HRA354 --SCRUZA 08/26/96 15:02 ***

*** Reply to note of 08/24/96 07:43

Subject: Re: Other voices, other rooms

This Reese creep hangs around these lists like something dead,

nursing nothing but old grudges, presenting nothing but a bad

odor. Just a little mess on the carpet you have to step over

from time to time. There should be a periodic disclaimer in

any list afflicted by his pungent lack of class for all the

new users out there.

I'm trying to think of an equivalent in the Beat roster. Bukowski

could be acerbic, but he also had wit. Montgomery was bitter and

grudging and addled, but he had a lilt to his language. Burroughs was

a much better marksman. Nope, there's none like him, thank the gods.

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 22:19:14 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "I'M OFF TO THE MOON FOR A CUP OF SAKE." <breithau@KENYON.EDU>

Subject: Re: GonzoJounalism still Beat ?!

I think Hunter stands alone from the Beats for some reason. I think he is with

them in spirit but the crowd he moved with and the kind of writing he did makes

me seperate him from the Beats. Though he is a great writer in my opinion, he

has a history of being homophobic and a wife beater. I guess I idealize the

Beat writers but in truth it was not a movement too kind to women and sometimes

homosexuals. Gonzo is next generation. He loved "The Ginger Man" when he was

starting to write.

Dave B.

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 23:16:08 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Phil Chaput <Philzi@TIAC.NET>

Subject: new book Biblio out

In this book collectors guide (BIBLIO July-Aug.) the premiere issue there is

a great article on collecting 'Beat" Poetry books. It list Olson, Levertov,

Duncan, Corso, McLure, Ginsberg and others to collect but it's also a great

read on the beats. If this first issue has an article like this I bet we

will see many good (beat) authors featured in upcoming editions. Keep your

eye out for it I bought mine at Barnes and Nobles in Nashua, N.H. Phil

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 00:37:06 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "M.Cakebread" <cake@IONLINE.NET>

Subject: Re: Gonzo Journalism still Beat?!

On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:29:48 +0200

Moritz Rossbach <moro0000@STUD.UNI-SB.DE> wrote:

Subject: GonzoJounalism still Beat ?!

>Hi Guys,

>i recently read lots of stuff from a late 60s writer called Hunter S.

>Thompson, who, i think kinda beat-like, travelled through the states,

>took a whole lotta drugs and wrote books, combining fiction with serious

>journalism. levi asher mentions him in his ladder-days beat authors on

>literary kicks and i wonder what you guys think !

Hmm, I have a hard time swallowing this one. I think there are some

major differences between "the beats" and Hunter S. I think that the

mention of drugs and travelling are about the only things these have in

common. From "the beats" there stems a sense of romance and intellect,

with Hunter S. it seems that there is a little too much inane drug babble.

IMHO, Hunter S. couldn't touch "the beats" with a ten-foot

j. {8^>

Mike

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 04:53:33 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>

Subject: hunter s thompson

isn't neal cassady mentioned in thompson's "hells angels?"

joe

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 08:52:36 +0000

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "John W. Hasbrouck" <jhasbro@TEZCAT.COM>

Subject: Re: hunter s thompson

Joe wrote:

> isn't neal cassady mentioned in thompson's "hells angels?"

> joe

Yes, but only in passing, as I recall. (Correct me if I'm wrong,

somebody.)

John H.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 10:48:52 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: STRice <afn49457@AFN.ORG>

Subject: hunter and beats

As for the talk on Hunter, he's part of New Journalism and is not a part =

of the beats. Hunter mixes fiction with journalism. The beats =

(especially Kerouac; see Desolation Angels, Visions of Cody) where =

romantics, nostalgic for a lost past, interested in carrying on =

Whitman's vision. Hunter is interested in tracking down the beast in =

America, everything Nixon stood for.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 12:18:29 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Whiskey Weird Smith <psu06729@ODIN.CC.PDX.EDU>

Subject: Re: hunter and beats

Comments: To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"

<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>

Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L

<BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>

In-Reply-To: <01BB9405.7EB72620@dialup57.afn.org>

On Tue, 27 Aug 1996, STRice wrote:

> As for the talk on Hunter, he's part of New Journalism and is not a part

of the beats. Hunter mixes fiction with journalism. The beats

(especially Kerouac; see Desolation Angels, Visions of Cody) where

romantics, nostalgic for a lost past, interested in carrying on

Whitman's vision. Hunter is interested in tracking down the beast in

America, everything Nixon stood for.

If the NJ cadre includes Tom Wolfe, forget it. Also, HST does gonzo--gonzo

and nj approaches and visions and methods are not the same. HST

has referred to his debt to Faulkner's statements about truth in/of fiction.

Dr. Thompson is incredibly romantic--and there is an American past and

history and promise and sensibility he yearns for us to return to--and he

screams at the top of his bleeding lungs and he flogs the beast because

it and its minions (i.e. Nixon) have stolen hope and honor and truth and

poisoned our collective soul and loped into the Amerikan night like

diseased bull weasels.

Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas is very Whitmanesque with a dash of

Genet, a pinch of Howl, and the addled grin of Tom Paine. Romantic as it

gets.

give the Doc money and prizes--don't let anything happen to him.

is he beat? beaten down? beatific? yes and no, i guess. he's just a damn

fine writer--with echoes of Fitzgerald and DeQuincy and sure, Kerouac,

and Burroughs...and there is a huge bloodshot eye staring right out of the

middle of his medulla.

best,

Steve R. Smith

Graduate Teaching Assistant

Department of English

Portland State University

Box 751 Portland, OR 97207

503-725-3556

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:08:22 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Nick Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>

Subject: JK and Marty Glickman

You might be interested to know that Syracuse University Press are

publishing this month "The Fastest Kid On The Block: The Marty Glickman

Story". What has this to do with Jack Kerouac? Maybe we should run a JK

trivia contest, but I suspect everyone has enough E-Mail anyway.

Their opening blurb for the book is a quote from OTR

"Man, have you dug that mad Marty Glickman announcing basketball games -

up-to-midcourt-bounce-fake-set-shot, swish, two points. Absolutely the

greatest announcer I ever heard"

**************************************************************************

Nick Weir-Williams

Director, Northwestern University Press

President, Illinois Book Publishers Association

List Manager, chipub listserv (http://www.usa4.com/chipub/)

ph: 847 491 8114

fax: 847 491 8150

***Publishing is 90% inspiration and the other half is just hard work

(with apologies to Yogi Berra)***

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 17:48:52 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "W. Luther Jett" <MagenDror@AOL.COM>

Subject: re hunter s thompson

>Joe wrote:

>> isn't neal cassady mentioned in thompson's "hells angels?"

>> joe

>Yes, but only in passing, as I recall. (Correct me if I'm wrong,

>somebody.)

that's my recollection also - At the time, the Hell's Angels were taking part

in Kesey's Acid Tests, and there is a description of one of those Acid Tests

in Thompson's book. If Neal Casady is mentioned therein, it's peripheral, as

the behavior of the Angels was Thompson's primary focus. Incidentally, this

book was the earliest of HST's gonzo ouevre (published ca. 1965?), and as

such, is considerably more mainstream in tone than the Fear and Loathing

series.

Luther Jett

John H.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 23:55:44 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Zeke <zeke@ZEKE.COM>

Subject: [Fwd: Re: MTV help?/MTV or video clip?]

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Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 17:33:11 -0400

Reply-To: Academic Discussion of Popular Music <ROCKLIST@LISTSERV.KENT.EDU>

Sender: Academic Discussion of Popular Music <ROCKLIST@LISTSERV.KENT.EDU>

From: Jennifer Senft <jsenft@SPACELAB.NET>

Subject: Re: MTV help?/MTV or video clip?

To: Multiple recipients of list ROCKLIST <ROCKLIST@LISTSERV.KENT.EDU>

I realise that when the debate hits this level, the academic banter tends to

take place between the establishment of this list. And I am new, but I have

something to say...

It is so clear to me that MTV is not only art, but an art form. It is a

genre with its own iconography, its own standards, and its own rules --

extremely quick cuts, moving hand-held camera, zooms, colors, and then --

the wardrobe, make-up, hair-dye, tatoos, etc. This is a style that has

become a cultural phenomenon and ALSO invaded other media forms.

Commercials on regular tv now use "MTV style," it is in commercial films,

and television shows on non-cable television (Party of Five, etc.). It is a

form of art that has taken off with a vengeance and defines a whole

generation. Don't we say, "the MTV generation" much like we used to say,

"the beat generation"? Beat is an art form, yes?

>To clarify: my mind is fairly open on the subject, given that beggars

>can't be choosers. But basically, MTV is a commercial channel which plays

>music videos, the purpose being to make money for MTV, its advertisers,

>the labels who produce the music, and lastly, I suspect, the artists

>themselves.

Sounds like all tv doesn't it? And I guess all art. Funny, the artist's

ultimate goal is to make money doing his art. Yet if too much money is

made, somehow is it then not really art?

I'll shut up now lest I get flamed in some huge way...

Jennifer

*********************************************

Jennifer Senft, M.A.

jsenft@spacelab.net

Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty...

**********************************************

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:41:54 +1000

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: JENS MOELLENHOFF <JMOELLEN@NW80.CIP.FAK14.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE>

Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: MTV help?/MTV or video clip?]

> I realise that when the debate hits this level, the academic banter tends to

> take place between the establishment of this list. And I am new, but I have

> something to say...

> It is so clear to me that MTV is not only art, but an art form. It is a

> genre with its own iconography, its own standards, and its own rules --

> extremely quick cuts, moving hand-held camera, zooms, colors, and then --

> the wardrobe, make-up, hair-dye, tatoos, etc. This is a style that has

> become a cultural phenomenon and ALSO invaded other media forms.

> Commercials on regular tv now use "MTV style," it is in commercial films,

> and television shows on non-cable television (Party of Five, etc.). It is a

> form of art that has taken off with a vengeance and defines a whole

> generation. Don't we say, "the MTV generation" much like we used to say,

> "the beat generation"? Beat is an art form, yes?

> >To clarify: my mind is fairly open on the subject, given that beggars

> >can't be choosers. But basically, MTV is a commercial channel which plays

> >music videos, the purpose being to make money for MTV, its advertisers,

> >the labels who produce the music, and lastly, I suspect, the artists

> >themselves.

> Sounds like all tv doesn't it? And I guess all art. Funny, the artist's

> ultimate goal is to make money doing his art. Yet if too much money is

> made, somehow is it then not really art?

> I'll shut up now lest I get flamed in some huge way...

> Jennifer

> *********************************************

> Jennifer Senft, M.A.

> jsenft@spacelab.net

> Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty...

> **********************************************

Having read a bit of Douglas Coupland I think that the MTV generation

can also be called the "Generation X".

Oh really ? :-)))

Jens Moellenhoff

jmoellen@nw80.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de

jmoellen@sun1.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de

http://www.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de/~jmoellen/ (German)

*** Language is a Virus from Outer Space - WSB ***

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 15:17:19 +0100

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "m.d.fascione" <m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>

Subject: Reese like something dead

Hey leave this Reese 'creep' alone, he's a fine guy. You should be

thankful that his buddy Harry the Nose isn't on the list too. Hey Alan,

any chance of getting Harry to join up?

Daniel

On Mon, 26 Aug 1996, HRA354@SCRUZA wrote:

> Subject: Re: Other voices, other rooms

> *** Forwarding note from HRA354 --SCRUZA 08/26/96 15:02 ***

> *** Reply to note of 08/24/96 07:43

> Subject: Re: Other voices, other rooms

> This Reese creep hangs around these lists like something dead,

> nursing nothing but old grudges, presenting nothing but a bad

> odor. Just a little mess on the carpet you have to step over

> from time to time. There should be a periodic disclaimer in

> any list afflicted by his pungent lack of class for all the

> new users out there.

> I'm trying to think of an equivalent in the Beat roster. Bukowski

> could be acerbic, but he also had wit. Montgomery was bitter and

> grudging and addled, but he had a lilt to his language. Burroughs was

> a much better marksman. Nope, there's none like him, thank the gods.

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 11:14:59 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Robert Peltier <Robert.Peltier@MAIL.TRINCOLL.EDU>

Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: MTV help?/MTV or video clip?]

>It is so clear to me that MTV is not only art, but an art form. It is a

>genre with its own iconography, its own standards, and its own rules --

>extremely quick cuts, moving hand-held camera, zooms, colors, and then --

>the wardrobe, make-up, hair-dye, tatoos, etc. This is a style that has

>become a cultural phenomenon and ALSO invaded other media forms.

>Commercials on regular tv now use "MTV style," it is in commercial films,

>and television shows on non-cable television (Party of Five, etc.). It is a

>form of art that has taken off with a vengeance and defines a whole

>generation. Don't we say, "the MTV generation" much like we used to say,

>"the beat generation"? Beat is an art form, yes?

MTV is commerce imitating art. There is nothing new or revolutionary about

the style or techniques of rock video; film and other media were employing

these techniques many decades ago. If you see "quick cuts, moving

hand-held camera, zooms" etc in a video and then see them in film, you

cannot assume that the video came first. Cinema Verite, using hand-held

cameras, predates rock videos. A 1960s television show called "I Spy" was

famous for its zooms. Look at the Beatles films (which were influenced by

earlier films). MTV videos (with a few exceptions) are just cheap

imitations of what came before them.

When I hear "MTV generation," it is usually in a context that denigrates

that generation (unfairly, I think, since I believe "generation" is a false

construct to simplify and commodify targets for ad agencies).

The "Beat Generation" (again, I'm using this term only as a comparison,

since I don't believe in it), was a group of people experimenting, pushing

at boundaries, trying--with various levels of success--to create something

new. Critics may argue whether they were successful in their attempts to

create art (I happen to think they were successful), but their attempts

cannot be denied.

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 12:00:08 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: NANCY GRACE <NGrace@ACS.WOOSTER.EDU>

Subject: Re Hunter Thompson and NJ

Allen Ginsberg has said that new journalism can be traced back to Kerouac's

fiction/autobiography. NJ actually can be traced back to Hemingway and

Dickens, maybe even further, but I find interesting Ginsberg's connection

of NJ and Kerouac, the way in which both the Beat movement and the NJ

movement (taking place simultaneously in some respects) worked to move

fiction and nonfiction toward the personal and the real. The blurring of

the genre boundaries is a central characteristic of both movements.

Nancy Grace

The College of Wooster

Wooster, Ohio

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 19:59:16 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: James Stauffer <stauffer@PACBELL.NET>

Subject: [Fwd: Who is and who isn't]

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Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 19:53:14 -0700

From: James Stauffer <stauffer@pacbell.net>

X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-PBWE (Win95; I)

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To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject: Who is and who isn't

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I find myself frustrated by this perpetual question of who is and who

isn't "Beat." This list, as I understand it, focuses on Kerouac,

Ginsberg, and Burroughs who are certainly at the center of that cannon.

Like some others I don't have much interest in Burroughs, but am

fascinated by Gins, Jack and the West Coast Beats (Snyder, Welch,

Whalen, etc.).

Terms for literary movements have destinct limitations. Everything

blends together after awhile. There is a trend in anglo-american lit

from the Romantics onward toward interest in the personal and spiritual

experience and as early as Coleridge and DeQuincy that becomes

intertwined with a fascination with drugs. Neither, however, were

"beat."

Influence is another misleading factor. Ginberg was profoundly

influenced by Whitman and WC Williams, to name two writers, but not a

part of the movements we associate with either.

Beat, for me, is composed of a group of writers who were mostly friends,

who came into their own in the fifties. They had a tremendous impact on

the culture that followed them in the sixties--but that was a very

different scene. There are figures that are links--Cassidy most

prominately. But Kesey, who owes much to the beats, had a different

vision. Hunter Thompson ditto. Can you imagine Jack in "Fear in

Loathing"? I don't think so. The hip thing was very different in tone

even though some good old beats-Ginberg and Welch, for example, operated

as authority figures there also. I think of "hip" as "post beat".

Dylan, Kesey, Thompson, Farina, Cohen and others are great figures and I

share more with them in terms of life lived, but they are not "beats"

but their descendents.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 09:19:52 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: John Iaquinta <JIaqui2615@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Re Hunter Thompson and NJ

And how bout Orwell, Homage to Catalonia is, among other things, extreme

journalism, and for connection to later Beat writing Down and Out in Paris

and London, regardless of what you may think about the social commentary, is

a sort of desperate precursor to OTR.

John

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 09:36:30 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: John Iaquinta <JIaqui2615@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: [Fwd: Who is and who isn't]

Isn't one of the problems here that these endless exchanges regarding

who is or isn't beat are never really resolved? Personally I think that if

you have something relevant,and even remotely interesting to say regarding

Hunter Thompson, Salinger, Bob Dylan, or anyone else for that matter, say it

and see if there's any response. The last couple days has seen a discussion

of MTV as a possible art form on this list for Christs sake, so if anyone has

something epiphanic to say about Charles Bukowski, I for one would be glad to

hear it. (By the way durring the whole of the last discussion regarding C.B.

I don't recall anyone mentioning his writing specifically--just whether or

not he ever got drunk with Neil Cassady, which seems to be one of the primary

requirements for being considered Beat--"Hey didn't Thompson mention Cassady

in Hells Angels?"--Yeah he did...so what?)

So anyone know what Kerouac's favorite color was?

Always Merry and Bright,

John

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 09:46:33 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Lowe <hdnfalls@POND.COM>

Subject: Jack's favorite color--

I just checked with my dog (who is VERY beat since she claims she once bit

Lew Welch on the leg--though later apologized) and she tells me she has it

on good authority that Jack's favorite color was blue.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 11:36:08 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: William Miller <KenWNC@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: MTV help?/MTV or video clip?] The Miller take

In a message dated 96-08-28 11:25:31 EDT, Peltier write:

<< MTV is commerce imitating art. There is nothing new or revolutionary

about