will contemn the hot-blooded lifelover with their cold papers on a desk

because they have no blood and therefore have no sin?  No!  They sin by

lifelessness!They are the ogres of Law entering the holy realm of Sin1

Ah, I've got to explain myself without essays and poems-Cody had a wife

whom he really loved, and three kids he really loved, and a good job on

the railroad.  But when the sun went down his blood got hot:- hot for old

lovers like Joanna, for old pleasure like marijuana and talk, for jazz, for

the gayety that any respectable American wants in a life growing more

arid by the year in Law Riddenh America.  But he did not hide his desire

and cry DRY!  He went all out.  He filled hgis car with friends and booze

and pot and batted around looking for ecstasy like some fieldworker on a

Saturday night in Georgia when the moon cools the still and guitars are

twangin down the hill.  he came from sturdy Missouri stock that walked on

strong feet.  We've all seen him kneel SWEATING praying to God!"

 

Jack Kerouac describing Neal Cassady in "Desolation Angels"

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Feb 1996 15:41:44 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Matthew S Sackmann <msackma@MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU>

Subject:      Re: Books

Comments: To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List"

          <BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.EDU>

In-Reply-To:  <960215.124142.EST.PRM95003@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>

 

On Thu, 15 Feb 1996, Peter McGahey wrote:

 

> How many people out there have read any books by the Beats besides On the

> Road or Naked Lunch?

>

I Have.

Only one though, "Desolation Angels", but im just beginning (at 18) to

get truly fascinated with the Beats.

 

-matt sackmann

 

"Ah yes, maybe I'm wrong and all the Christian, Islamic, Neo Platonist,

Buddhist, Hindu, and Zen Mystics of the world were wrong about the

transcendental mystery of existence but I don't think so- Like the thirty

birds who reached God and saw themselves reflected in His Mirror.  the

thirty Dirty Birds, those 970 of us birds who never made it across the

Valley of Divine Illumination did really make it anyway in Perfection- So

now let me explain about poor Cody, even though I've already told most of

his story.  he is a BELIEVER in life and he WANTS to go to Heaven but

because he loves life so he embraces it so much he thinks he sins and

will never seeHeaven- He was a Catholic altar boy as I say even when he

was bumming dimes for his hopeless father hiding in alleys.  You could

have ten thousand cold eyed Materialistic officials claim they love life

too but can never embrace it so near sin and also never see Heaven-  They

will contemn the hot-blooded lifelover with their cold papers on a desk

because they have no blood and therefore have no sin?  No!  They sin by

lifelessness!They are the ogres of Law entering the holy realm of Sin1

Ah, I've got to explain myself without essays and poems-Cody had a wife

whom he really loved, and three kids he really loved, and a good job on

the railroad.  But when the sun went down his blood got hot:- hot for old

lovers like Joanna, for old pleasure like marijuana and talk, for jazz, for

the gayety that any respectable American wants in a life growing more

arid by the year in Law Riddenh America.  But he did not hide his desire

and cry DRY!  He went all out.  He filled hgis car with friends and booze

and pot and batted around looking for ecstasy like some fieldworker on a

Saturday night in Georgia when the moon cools the still and guitars are

twangin down the hill.  he came from sturdy Missouri stock that walked on

strong feet.  We've all seen him kneel SWEATING praying to God!"

 

Jack Kerouac describing Neal Cassady in "Desolation Angels"

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Feb 1996 16:49:37 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: Books

In-Reply-To:  Message of Thu, 15 Feb 1996 12:41:16 EST from

              <PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>

 

An odd question but I've read just about all of Kerouac, Ginsberg, and Burrough

s and most of what's been written about them.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Feb 1996 17:14:43 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: Books, poems, etc...

In-Reply-To:  Message of Thu, 15 Feb 1996 14:41:39 -0500 from

              <PAUL@LOUISVILLE.LIB.KY.US>

 

On Thu, 15 Feb 1996 14:41:39 -0500 Paul McDonald - Bon Air Branch said:

>I've found it interesting to read Kerouac, particularly "Dharma Bums" and "On

>The Road" out loud.  The prose has a definite jazz quality, sort of like the

>heart doing a saxophone cadenza.  I've had the impression that the period of

>"Dharma Bums" could very well have been the happiest time for Kerouac.  He and

>Snyder lived in the mountains with no communication with the outside world,

>(and no booze for that matter) both of them alone with pen and paper, totally

>in their element.

>

>I have read and re-read Ginsberg's "Plutonian Ode" and, again, reading it out

>loud, and maybe playing Peter Gabriel's "Passion" in the background, brings it

>to life.  It's a poem that transcends nuclear protest to a work of

>epic/mythological proportions.

>

>One of my favorite Beat poems has got to be Gregory Corso's "Marriage."  He

>was here in Louisville, KY in '93 and he read that one.  I think a

>friend of mine recorded it on video.

>

>I saw Jim Carroll recently in Lexington and, even though he is not classed with

>the original Beats, his books, particularly "Basketball Diaries" and "Forced

>Entries" have that same immediancy of the moment.

 

I agree.  I think PO is first rate work and one of Ginsberg's most underrated p

oems.  It deserves careful reading.

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Feb 1996 14:30:55 -0800

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "bs@UBC" <sbent@UNIXG.UBC.CA>

Subject:      Re: movers and shakers

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.A32.3.91.960215112307.106533B-100000@juliet.stfx.ca>

 

On Thu, 15 Feb 1996, Noah Bergman wrote:

 

> Now, I don't know if I even agree with this, but... was Kerouac really a

> very interesting person?  His writing skills were amazing and his depth

> of thought on a lot of subject was very deep, but just think about

> something.  Most of his books were about past adventures with a main

> character other than himself.  It seems that when he was by himself

> without a Neal Cassidy or Gary Snyder to push him along he resorted to

> drinking to pass the time.  Don't take this as an attack on Kerouac, he's

> one of my heroes.  I just think that you have to at least take a glance

> at both sides of your heroes too.

 

Kerouac of the books and Kerouac the real man are two very different

constructs...

 

In "Jack Kerouac: Statement in Brown" Joy Walsh has some interesting

comments that touch upon this topic. Walsh feels that one can gain

insights into Kerouac's writing by dissociating him from the group of

Beat Generation writers and looking at him in other contexts. This ties

in with her perception of Kerouac as always distancing himself from the

events he describes in his books. A quote: Kerouac removed himself from

the Beats, but was "part of the gang as an observer, rather than a

participant" (p. 50). Further: "any content analysis conclusion

concerning the character or inner motivation of the personae presented as

representations of Kerouac [...] is almost impossible until we reach

Vanity of Duluoz" (p. 51)

 

In another essay in the same book, Walsh discusses when Kerouac

interjects himself into his fiction using a certain leitmotif on many

occasions: "Kerouac's role or presence or much that pertained to him

personally was introduced by use of a leitmotif. The basic theme [...]

which announces Kerouac's presence in parts of the canon is the color

Brown (p.41)

 

Has anyone noticed this leitmotif or other recurrent textual markers in

the Kerouac canon?

 

Regards,

 

Bent Sorensen

Visiting Grad. Student, Dept. of English, UBC

Ph.D. Student, Aalborg University, Denmark

<http://hum.auc.dk/i12/org/medarb/bent.dk> OR <.../bent.uk>

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Feb 1996 17:49:58 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "Gary M. Gillman" <garyg@INFORAMP.NET>

Subject:      Kerouac again

 

Following up on Bill`s post, I`d like to say that I`ve also read almost all

of Kerouac and what`s been written about him. I feel one can best understand

him if one has done so, so I urge all Beat enthusiasts to read as much

Kerouac (including his poetry) as possible (and re-read him). While one`s

appreciation of any author is enhanced by reading his full oeuvre, this is

particularly true with Kerouac, whose works were intended as a series of

autobiographical, linked episodes - The Duluoz Legend. Sorry, but I`m on the

side of those who cannot look at his works in isolation from the lives of

those depicted in them. Jack shouted over a thousand scarred bartops that

his books were "true life stories": his insistence on spontaneous

composition only underscores this. But this doesn`t diminish the books as

literature - remember, Jack was by definiton trying to create a new American

prose form - he wanted to, and did, escape the bounds of the European idea

of the novel. So, judge him by his declared (and revealed) artistic

purposes. And who cares what Truman Capote thought, or John Updike (the

latter has started to change his tune, by the way, saying recently that

Kerouac`s books emphasize "a certain flow" - the literary understatement of

the century, surely!). We who study Jack and the other Beats must try to

have the same confidence on the critical level which Jack always

demonstrated as an artist. Of course, his fight was a much tougher go than

ours will ever be. He was much damaged by having to cope with the

unthinking, often jealous, reactions of the Capotes, Podhoretz` and the

rest. As JCH wrote of Jack, he was incapable of dealing with the world and

its politics. Jack pointed this out himself in one of his Beat essays when

he said he was famous on his block as a kid for trying to stop his chums

from roasting snakes in tin cans and blowing up frogs with straws. Guess

that was just more typing to Mr. Truman Capote, Novelist...

Gary M. Gillman

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Feb 1996 17:24:10 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         scott andrew cederlund <scott@WWA.COM>

Subject:      Dharma Bums (was Re: Books)

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.A32.3.91.960215140722.35421A-100000@juliet.stfx.ca>

 

I just finished Dharma Bums for a class and it was the Kerouac book I

enjoyed the most.  We read of JK's books, OTR, Subterraneans, and Dharma

Bums.  While I enjoyed all three and got a lot out of them, I think I

identifired more with Ray in Dharma Bums than either Sal or Leo.  This is

my first time reading these books, so maybe that will change with looking

at them some more.

 

scott

__________________________________________________________________________

|scott@wwa.com             |For my purpose holds                          |

|scottac@pshrink.chi.il.us |To sail beyond the sunset, and the baths      |

|cy475@FreeNet.Carleton.CA |Of all the western stars, until I die.        |

|                          |           Ulysses-  Alfred Lord Tennyson     |

+_________________________________________________________________________+

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Feb 1996 17:39:36 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         scott andrew cederlund <scott@WWA.COM>

Subject:      Gallery Six

 

Here's just a question of semantics, but it is something I've been

wanting to know...

 

About the Gallery Six poetry reading, I've seen is named both Gallery Six

and Six Gallery.  What's up with that?  Anyone know?

 

scott

__________________________________________________________________________

|scott@wwa.com             |For my purpose holds                          |

|scottac@pshrink.chi.il.us |To sail beyond the sunset, and the baths      |

|cy475@FreeNet.Carleton.CA |Of all the western stars, until I die.        |

|                          |           Ulysses-  Alfred Lord Tennyson     |

+_________________________________________________________________________+

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Feb 1996 18:52:29 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "W. Luther Jett" <MagenDror@AOL.COM>

Subject:      re WSB Naked Lunch

 

>Also, I Believe, Call Me Burroughs is now available on CD, >does anyone have

a track listing of this recording, I know that >it was recorded in the

sixties, possibly in Paris by >Sommerville?

 

"Call Me Burroughs" is available on CD or cassette from Rhino/WordBeat (R2/R4

71848). The original recording was indeed made by Ian Sommerville, in Paris,

and was first issued by the English Bookshop (Paris) in June, 1965. It was

later released in the US by ESP-Disk, NYC, 1966.

 

Tracks are: Bradley the Buyer; Meeting of International Conference of

Technological Psychiatry; The Fish Poison Con; Thing Police Keep All Board

Room Reports; Mr. Bradley Mr. Martin Hear Us Through The Hole In Thin Air;

Where you Belong; Inflexible Authority; and, Ukranian Willy.

 

Much of the material was composed using cut-up techniques, and it is all

delivered in Burroughs' wonderfully dead-pan, carnival-barker style.

 

Luther Jett

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Feb 1996 19:28:20 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "s. mark johnson" <smark@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Books, poems, etc...

 

On Feb 15, 1996 17:14:43, 'Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>' wrote:

 

 

>I have read and re-read Ginsberg's "Plutonian Ode" and, again, reading it

out

>>loud, and maybe playing Peter Gabriel's "Passion" in the background,

 

I saw Ginsberg read from a hand-written copy of "Plutonium Ode" in Dallas

in '75. I also somehow ended up with a copy of the hand-written version.

Does anyone know if such a thing would be valuable or even interesting to a

collector or curator??

 

Mark J

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Feb 1996 19:37:42 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "s. mark johnson" <smark@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: wsb and black rider

 

On Feb 15, 1996 14:47:54, '"col. it's steve" <VOSHEA@DIT.IE>' wrote:

 

 

>the black rider is an album by tom waits and burroughs appears on a couple

of

 

It was actually an opera performed live at Brooklyn Academy of Music a few

years ago. The album is the soundtrack.

 

Mark J

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Feb 1996 19:33:57 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "s. mark johnson" <smark@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: No Subject

 

On Feb 15, 1996 15:27:18, 'Chanda J Pearmon <cjpearmo@MHC.MTHOLYOKE.EDU>'

wrote:

 

 

>I love to immulate the beats

 

Is that "immolate" or "emulate"?

 

Mark J

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Feb 1996 19:59:29 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "s. mark johnson" <smark@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: beat writers, current status (fwd)

 

On Feb 15, 1996 13:06:48, 'Christopher Teggatz <Teggatz@AOL.COM>' wrote:

 

 

>I asked the hotel owner, an old Englishman named John

>Sutcliffe, if he heard from any of the Beats any more.

>"Yes, he said, Burroughs stayed here two weeks ago. "

>I could have cried, I was so close. Of course, Sutcliffe claimed it was no

 

>loss--"All those writers were terribly dull," he said. I don't believe it

 

I went to school with a John Sutcliffe at Kenyon in the 60's. His father,

Denholm, was chairman of the English dept there for years.  Please describe

him (private email) if you can. He would be about 50, tall and large-boned

with what I can only call a thin head relative to his body. Am I way off

here or what?

 

Mark J

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Feb 1996 19:55:07 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "s. mark johnson" <smark@PIPELINE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Books

 

On Feb 15, 1996 13:11:11, 'Noah Bergman <x95vyk@JULIET.STFX.CA>' wrote:

 

 

>Also, I'd like to start a discussion on Gary Snyder.  What would people

>in the know recommend of his.  I've read some of his work and find it

>exquisite (something in "Civilization" speaks to me).

 

I have followed Gary Snyder's work for many years (about 30, last count)

and have been to readings of his and met him once (1970).  His best work I

feel was written in the 60's and early 70's (Riprap, Cold Mountain Poems

translation, The Back Country, Mountains and Rivers Without End, Earth

Household, Myths & Texts, Regarding Wave, and maybe Turtle Island. As for

critical works about him, Gary Snyder by Bob Steuding, published by Twayne,

a division of G. K. Hall & Co., Boston, 1976 is the only one I have read,

but it is fairly complete and competent for it's time. Snyder is perhaps

the most scholarly of the beats, having obtained a doctorate, studied Zen

in Japan, and done much criticism as well as taught extensively. There was

a recent series narrated by Bill Moyers about living poets and the episode

on Snyder was quite moving. It aired on PBS a few months ago.

 

Mark J

=========================================================================

Date:         Thu, 15 Feb 1996 22:30:50 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "J. Killin" <JMkill@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac's Football Career

 

---------------------

Forwarded message:

From:   BREWERNC@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu

To:     JMkill@aol.com

Date: 96-02-15 21:13:53 EST

 

Toby,

 

        Hi. My Name is Nate and I have done a lot of reading on the

Beats to say the least.  The best account of Kerouac's career ending

injury is given in the biography titled, Memory Babe.  I am not to sure

who wrote it, but I think that it was Ann Charters, but I wouldn't bet my

life on it.  I believe that Tom Clark also mentions something about it

in his biography as well.  Check the first one first, it is a superior

record of Jack's life, that cuts out all the myth and legend, and still

makes for a very good read.

 

later

nate

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 16 Feb 1996 00:17:42 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Peter McGahey <PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>

Subject:      fucked up on rugs (fwd)

 

----------------------------Original message----------------------------

From:         "col. it's steve" <VOSHEA@DIT.IE>

Subject:      fucked up on rugs

 

i don't think the beats got fucked up (ok there's always casualties) on drugs

they used them to get high, to change perception to just go,go,go.

 

                                               its when they become a lifestyle

that they become a problem -"fucked up"- thing.

                                                                    I don't

think its fair to say they got fucked up (not all of them anyway)..

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Remember - Bill shot his wife in the head and had to flee several countries

and states because of his drug habit.  He also went on a safari to find

Yage.  I think that would qualify as a drug problem with the DEA.

 

Does anyone else find it at all ironic that the Beats who chose alcohol

died so quickly and those who favored the "hard stuff" just seem to

be immortal?

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 16 Feb 1996 03:06:19 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Andrew Howald <103256.1311@COMPUSERVE.COM>

Subject:      Re: Books

 

********************************************************************************

 *

*

I just wanted to ask if anybody else feels Dharma Bums rivals On the Road

for quality.  It may have just been the state of mind I was in when I

read it, but I found Dharma Bums to be much more clearly written.  I

think in On the Road Kerouac was still rough in his transitions from

traditional to spontaneous prose.  Dharma Bums is much more smooth in

terms of how it is more difficult to diffuse the spontaneous from the

pre-thought.

Also, I'd like to start a discussion on Gary Snyder.  What would people

in the know recommend of his.  I've read some of his work and find it

exquisite (something in "Civilization" speaks to me).

********************************************************************************

 *

**

    I've read DB twice and enjoyed it immensely both times.  I think it is less

driven than OTR,

more meditative--the difference between Neil & Gary basically.  I agree with you

that it's clearer

than OTR, but perhaps less poetic.  Or maybe its poetry is more that of the

haiku (a form

which Kerouac & Snyder have a lot of fun with in the book)  while OTR is more

free-flowing

great jazzy romantic strophes. (Go, go, go.)

 

    BTW Gary Snyder has said in interviews (and perhaps somewhere in print?)

that

he does not consider DB to be on a par with OTR-- but I don't recall him

elaborating.

 

    I think Snyder's best work can be found in *Turtle Island* and *Regarding

Wave*.

Also I'm very fond of *Riprap and Cold Mountain Poems*, an early work.

 

   " The world's like an endless

Four-dimensional

Game of GO."

 

            --Riprap

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 16 Feb 1996 03:06:24 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Andrew Howald <103256.1311@COMPUSERVE.COM>

Subject:      WSB Questions

 

dnder: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Trevor D. Smith" <V116NH27@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>

Organization: University at Buffalo

Subject:      WSB Questions

To: Multiple recipients of list BEAT-L <BEAT-L@CUNYVM>

 

Hello all:

 

 

>To save some bandwith, let me pose the one I am most interested

>in having aswere:  between his Harvard schooling, and travels (exiles)

>in a myriad of countries, did WSB speak/read/write any language

>other than english??  He intended to study medicine in Vienna

>(and, according to Morgan, could read "some" German)

>and quotes himself using spanish words throughout _Junky_,

>but otherwise there are no allusions to his foreign

>language abilities.

 

>Bill Jr. makes fun of his old man's French (I think?) in

>_Kentucky Ham_ (if I recall correctly), but I wonder how

>substantiated this may be.

 

WSB certainly has rich  knowledge of several languages, but I question

his ability to speak them with any fluency.  Or maybe I should say his DESIRE

to speak them with any fluency, since the man doesn't even seem to try.  His

spoken German

and Spanish are hilariously bad.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 16 Feb 1996 03:06:29 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Andrew Howald <103256.1311@COMPUSERVE.COM>

Subject:      wsb and black rider

 

>the black rider is an album by tom waits and burroughs appears on a couple of

>tracks, they're very good.If waits is doing the roswell opera it should prove

>interesting.Waits' earlier work is influenced by the beats and well worth

>checking out esp. closing time, the heart of saturday night and blue valentine.

 

I would enthusiastically second the recommendations, adding *Rain Dogs* and

*Frank's

Wild Years* to the list.  The beat influence on Waits is unmistakable, and Waits

+ Burroughs is a great synergy.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:12:49 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         apm5%aberystwyth.ac.uk@UKACRL.BITNET

Subject:      Re: fucked up on rugs (fwd)

 

>----------------------------Original message----------------------------

>From:         "col. it's steve" <VOSHEA@DIT.IE>

>Subject:      fucked up on rugs

>

>i don't think the beats got fucked up (ok there's always casualties) on drugs

>they used them to get high, to change perception to just go,go,go.

>

>                                               its when they become a lifestyle

>that they become a problem -"fucked up"- thing.

>                                                                    I don't

>think its fair to say they got fucked up (not all of them anyway)..

>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>Remember - Bill shot his wife in the head and had to flee several countries

>and states because of his drug habit.  He also went on a safari to find

>Yage.  I think that would qualify as a drug problem with the DEA.

 

Granted, Bill was a junkie (hence the name of his book). Bill and Huncke are

the exceptions. To clarify, the search for yage was a purely spiritual

quest. Bill was the scientist here (or pseudo-scientist as I am sure he

would prefer to be called). It (the long search) was not part of his junk

problem (if indeed he saw it as a problem - "Junk is a way of life").

 

>

>Does anyone else find it at all ironic that the Beats who chose alcohol

>died so quickly and those who favored the "hard stuff" just seem to

>be immortal?

>

Also illuminatory. Alcohol is a thoroughly horrible drug.

 

 

 

 

Alan Maddrell - who wishes he could be fucked on rugs so he wouldn't have to

be fucked on drugs...:)

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:35:46 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         M D Fascione <m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>

Subject:      Re: beat writers, current status (fwd)

 

Two years ago I was in Tangier, staying at the Tanger Inn room 9 (where NAKED

LUNCH was written). I asked the hotel owner, an old Englishman named John

Sutcliffe, if he heard from any of the Beats any more.

"Yes, he said, Burroughs stayed here two weeks ago. "

I could have cried, I was so close. Of course, Sutcliffe claimed it was no

loss--"All those writers were terribly dull," he said. I don't believe it.

 

Christopher Miezio-Teggatz

 

I stayed in the same place, Hotel Muniria in 93 and remember John well.

How did you manage to stay in room 9, that was John's room! He told me

that Cronenborg (sp) had recently visited to take photos for the Naked

Lunch sets for his movie, which was eventually shot in Canada....the

Tanger Inn was a great place for a chilled beer in the evening.....happy

memories

 

Daniel

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 16 Feb 1996 14:10:40 +0000

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         M D Fascione <m.d.fascione@CITY.AC.UK>

Subject:      Re: beat writers, current status (fwd)

 

>loss--"All those writers were terribly dull," he said. I don't believe it

 

I went to school with a John Sutcliffe at Kenyon in the 60's. His father,

Denholm, was chairman of the English dept there for years.  Please describe

him (private email) if you can. He would be about 50, tall and large-boned

with what I can only call a thin head relative to his body. Am I way off

here or what?

 

***************************************************************************

 

I remember that John Sutcliffe had his own novel for sale down in the

Tanger Inn, though they had sold out and had only the copy on display

which wasn't for sale. Anyone read this, or remember what it's called?

 

Daniel

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 16 Feb 1996 09:18:42 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: movers and shakers

In-Reply-To:  Message of Thu, 15 Feb 1996 14:30:55 -0800 from

              <sbent@UNIXG.UBC.CA>

 

On Thu, 15 Feb 1996 14:30:55 -0800 bs@UBC said:

>On Thu, 15 Feb 1996, Noah Bergman wrote:

>

>> Now, I don't know if I even agree with this, but... was Kerouac really a

>> very interesting person?  His writing skills were amazing and his depth

>> of thought on a lot of subject was very deep, but just think about

>> something.  Most of his books were about past adventures with a main

>> character other than himself.  It seems that when he was by himself

>> without a Neal Cassidy or Gary Snyder to push him along he resorted to

>> drinking to pass the time.  Don't take this as an attack on Kerouac, he's

>> one of my heroes.  I just think that you have to at least take a glance

>> at both sides of your heroes too.

>

>Kerouac of the books and Kerouac the real man are two very different

>constructs...

>

>In "Jack Kerouac: Statement in Brown" Joy Walsh has some interesting

>comments that touch upon this topic. Walsh feels that one can gain

>insights into Kerouac's writing by dissociating him from the group of

>Beat Generation writers and looking at him in other contexts. This ties

>in with her perception of Kerouac as always distancing himself from the

>events he describes in his books. A quote: Kerouac removed himself from

>the Beats, but was "part of the gang as an observer, rather than a

>participant" (p. 50). Further: "any content analysis conclusion

>concerning the character or inner motivation of the personae presented as

>representations of Kerouac [...] is almost impossible until we reach

>Vanity of Duluoz" (p. 51)

>

>In another essay in the same book, Walsh discusses when Kerouac

>interjects himself into his fiction using a certain leitmotif on many

>occasions: "Kerouac's role or presence or much that pertained to him

>personally was introduced by use of a leitmotif. The basic theme [...]

>which announces Kerouac's presence in parts of the canon is the color

>Brown (p.41)

>

>Has anyone noticed this leitmotif or other recurrent textual markers in

>the Kerouac canon?

>

>Regards,

>

>Bent Sorensen

>Visiting Grad. Student, Dept. of English, UBC

>Ph.D. Student, Aalborg University, Denmark

><http://hum.auc.dk/i12/org/medarb/bent.dk> OR <.../bent.uk>

 

Yes, Joy as usual is right on target.  Anyone in touch with Joy?  Wish we could

get her to join this list.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 16 Feb 1996 09:29:36 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac's Football Career

In-Reply-To:  Message of Thu, 15 Feb 1996 22:30:50 -0500 from <JMkill@AOL.COM>

 

On Thu, 15 Feb 1996 22:30:50 -0500 J. Killin said:

>---------------------

>Forwarded message:

>From:   BREWERNC@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu

>To:     JMkill@aol.com

>Date: 96-02-15 21:13:53 EST

>

>Toby,

>

>        Hi. My Name is Nate and I have done a lot of reading on the

>Beats to say the least.  The best account of Kerouac's career ending

>injury is given in the biography titled, Memory Babe.  I am not to sure

>who wrote it, but I think that it was Ann Charters, but I wouldn't bet my

>life on it.  I believe that Tom Clark also mentions something about it

>in his biography as well.  Check the first one first, it is a superior

>record of Jack's life, that cuts out all the myth and legend, and still

>makes for a very good read.

>

>later

>nate

 

Big mistake!  You'll get into a lot of trouble saying Ann Charters wrote Memory

Babe.  Gerry Nicosia wrote Memory Babe.  Ann Charters wrote Kerouac, the first

biography.

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 16 Feb 1996 09:38:24 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: Kerouac...an obnoxious fellow?

 

Jack Kerouac was an alcoholic.

 

Alcoholism is a disease.

 

That does not excuse anything he did.

 

Based on his writing I will always believe his core, his soul was a thing of

beauty.  And I believe that part of the essence of "beat" was a way for all

of us to see and express the beauty within.  No perfect, but beautiful -- and

what a gift he had to express it.  Thanks Jack.  Thanks to all great artists.

 

Howard Park

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 16 Feb 1996 10:35:35 EST

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "joe@bullet.sware.com" <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>

Subject:      accusatory mindfucking stare

 

the list has mentioned kerouac's bitterness in last chapter of his life, and in

particular the last few books he wrote.

 

it brought back a conversation i'd read between kerouac & c.jarvis about neals

death, specifically other writers who'd written about neal...

 

 

"do you feel any resentment against tom wolfe, or even ken kesey who obviously

became neal cassady's buddy?"

 

kerouac threw me the accusatory mindfucking stare again.

 

"i'm too old to resent anybody -- you diabolical professor, you."

 

he smiled faintly.

 

"but even if i weren't too old, and even if this were a few years back, i could

bear no grudge against any man."

 

 

 

joe

 

##########################################################################

 

it no longer makes me cry and die and tear myself to see her go because

everything goes away from me like that now - girls, visions, anything, just in

the same way and forever and i accept lostness forever.

 

everything belongs to me because i am poor.

 

-  jk:voc

 

##########################################################################

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:41:04 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Christopher Teggatz <Teggatz@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: fucked up on rugs

 

Two thoughts on the drugs line...

 

First, Jazz players were often associated with drug lifestyle (just as there

is little doubt that the Smashing Pumpkins use heroin...and don't get me

wrong, MELLON COLLIE is fabulous) and just as kids today emulate the fucked

up Seattle grunge rockers, so too did the Beats want to emulate certain

aspects of the jazz lifestyle.

 

Second, Tangier (the literary capital of the 50s, just as Paris was for the

Lost Generation) at the time was like Amsterdam today--drugs were widely

available and legal and "everyone was doing it"--again, lifestyle (visit

Amsterdam and you'll see what I mean). Indeed, the Beats esp. Burroughs came

to Tangier precisely to get drugs (and for the relaxed attitude toward

homosexuality).

 

Though yes, I think they did drugs  to "go go go" and expand consciousness,

it seems to me that drugs were very much a part of who the Beats *were.*

e.g., Paul Bowles liked to write while stoned on majoun (sp?) and the death

chapters of SHELTERING SHY are a drug-induced masterwork--and could he have

written it without drugs? The same goes for NAKED LUNCH--a sober WSB just

couldn't have written it. I don't think this in any way derides the Beats,

But to look at  Beat writing without the context of drugs (incl. alcohol) and

the drug lifestyle is like studying the Lost Generation and ignoring the

consequences of WWI, or misunderstanding who "the man" is with Lou Reed.

 

or am I way off? Is there any literature on the topic?

 

Chris Teggatz

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:41:25 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Christopher Teggatz <Teggatz@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: John Sutcliffe

 

Yes, Sutcliffe has his own novel for sale--I purchased an autographed copy.

Unfortunately I can't find it in my bookcase, but if memory serves correct,

it's called "The Secret Pilgrim." It was my reading during the long flight

home from Tangier, and it wasn't very good. I got the impression that

Sutcliffe was  just doing the fashionable thing at the time--i.e., all the

expats in Tangier were writing.

 

Chris Teggatz

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:41:15 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Christopher Teggatz <Teggatz@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Paul Bowles

 

Please forgive me if I'm treading on old gound, but do you consider Bowles I

Beat? An atypical Beat I admit--an especially atypical Beat in terms of

style--but where else can you place him? Particularly in terms of lifestyle,

he is Beat all the way, and he certainly can't be lumped together with  his

other American contemporaries like Salinger and Cheever.

 

I make a point of reading Bowles's LET IT COME DOWN once a year, and every

time it thrills me.

 

Chris Teggatz

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:57:58 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Nick Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>

Subject:      Cassady and the Grateful Dead

 

This came from another list - thought you would all enjoy this.

>>

>> The following is Cassady rapping with the Dead at the Straight

>> Theatre, 7/67.  It's from a flexi-disk that came with the book (I

>> think) "Dead Days- A Social History of the Grateful Dead" by Hank

>> Harrison (again, I don't have it with me so I'm not sure.)

>>

>> Some of it I can't understand, he mumbles a lot of words and

>> creates a few of his own I think. The Dead are playing what sounds

>> like the beginning of Lovelight over and over with Neil throwing in

>> a few ummp's and haaaarrr's occaisionally, just weird sounds and

>> a lot breathing into the mic. Except for when he stops to let the

>> band play he is speaking as if he's reading it all from a book; he

>> sounds a little bit like an unpretentious Jim Morrison.

>>

>> (Jerry intros Neil)

>> Neil Cassady. Neil cassady.

>>

>> (Neil)

>> I got the penguin right here in my pocket <loud drums and

>> guitars/Neil mumbling something> -four fingers, ya know, it's just

>> the claw and me, three inches, bigger than- and

>> I said, of course, in the Metro, as they, but it hides my thumb and

>> lso reveals my Greek torso, huh... At 49th, I said, Spence?

>> haven't seen him since 51st he said move two, 49th, huh. Nope, move

>> to 51st. <more mumbles/band begins playing> The waiter in 56th beat

>> the 6 seeds he had, seed law in marijuana, the only ratting I ever

>> did... And now marijuana, oooo! I was saying in the- ya alright in

>> there, (taps on the mic) on the wall, Mr Cassady? I only got twenty

>> years on ya... I knew I shoulda worn more paisley. I double-crossed

>> him- no, the son of the mAN is about to bounce the podiUM.  Rimsby

>> was impressed in a short drive, huh, I said I'm serious about

>> America DeMarco, Greg, at the, uh, last year, ya know, we arrived

>> it from time. <Lovelight-ish jam> Double-parkin' winamarker(?)

>> speeder and derns(?) six days it was finally she grabbed the, of

>> course, Vics vapor rub, it's in the vaseline, that's what ended it.

>> My first child, forty, uh, two then, Charlie Valensia, on tempo(?)

>> where we had an acid test, but thirteenfifty, his father, half

>> Mexican half Irish like Anthony Quinn, so he loved me, ya know,

>> that was a triumph-pf-of us, the only tree-way I ever had,

>> Kerouac's not queer, but my present wife, the fourth, and he, it

>> was just, NewYear's Eve, sort of, uh, we was always looking for a

>> colored girl, Carol Ashty(?), finally found her, that was the last

>> time I committed suicide, I knew toward the fourth sign, across the

>> Hudson, get across this looong Missooouri that preacher said

>> <mumble> or I didn't see it, move ooon. Ummm, ha-h-haa (to

>> Lovelight.) -menopausal, don't ask me how, twenty years I fell ten

>> on the railroad and ten more for, uh, and, uh, I'll be dead a

>> thousand years see, so, if I don't do right now, right in it- Reb

>> Barker the same acid test then, use to be Al Collins all fat and

>> sassy, you know, but he was all skinny and dressed in a, uh, you

>> can work yourself inta anything, how'd he get outta it? Six days,

>> uh, six glasses a day pretty soon your system demands it thousand

>> days Orabindo(?) says you've had it old joe alcoholic, you know, we

>> used to drink together, but he went drinking. <mumbling> (music is

>> turned up a bit/Neil still mumbling random words) -a German

>> pornograpghy... Uummmbbuuuyyyyyy... He stay offer thou wake to

>> wake(?,) oh, the name of that Christ don't call on that I said

>> that's another, huh, then the next day November 1st is all souls,

>> all saints. <music> Huhuhu. <skat-singing> He did nothin' I did

>> nothin', and finally there's nothin', there wudn't nothin' he

>> wouldn't do for me and nothin' I wouldn't do for him but we sat

>> around all time doin' nothin'! Twentymilesanhourthe great four

>> wheel drift he, uh, adjusting his goggles, ya know, everybody in

>> the audience with their right foot but I can't heel and toe I'm

>> double left, huh, Dooom-dee-dee-umm, dee-

>>

>> It's all about 5 minutes, but really funny; immpossible to

>> reproduce the rhythm in his voice, the nuances.

>>

>> Brian

>>

>

****************************************************************************

Nick Weir-Williams

Director, Northwestern University Press

President, Illinois Book Publishers Association

 

ph:  847 491 8114

fax: 847 491 8150 (please note new code takes effect January 20, 1996)

E-Mail: nweir-w@nwu.edu

 

Life is six-to-five against

****************************************************************************

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 16 Feb 1996 15:44:07 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Subject:      JK/Beat recordings Discography

 

My friend, Stephen Ronan, is in the very final stages of publishing what

should be the definitive discography of recordings by Beat writers.  It will

be titled "Discs of the Gone World, An Annotated Discography oif the Beat

Generation (With a Checklist of Unreleased Recordings).

 

Stephen (who is not online) describes it: "Available for the first time

anywhere a comprehensive guide to the jazz poetry, literary arts and humor of

the Beats and thier fellow travelers.  From the most subterranean ephemera to

the major reissue boxes of the nineties, all pertinent is examined and

described in detail.  Features: All individual releases on LP, cassette, & CD

of Beat audio culture, a compilation of unreleased tapes explaining what they

include, and a seperate listing of all Beat homage releases."

 

It will be priced at $20 available from:

 

(ask for more info or make checks payable to Stephen Ronan and add a buck or

two for postage and tell him I sent ya!)

 

Beat Books

P. O. Box 5813

Berkeley, CA  94705

 

I'm sorry if anyone is offended by this posting, but with all the discussion

about recordings and confusion, I thought this would be a service to many on

the list.

 

Howard Park

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 16 Feb 1996 15:00:10 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         "L.Kelly" <lpk9403@SLEEPY.NEBRWESLEYAN.EDU>

Subject:      New NL CD

 

For those of you who have asked, the new Naked Lunch CD published

by TimeWarner IS READ BY WSB.

 

It is three hours long, and although it isn't NL word for word

from any particular edition, it is great.

 

Regards

Luke

 

       /\  /\    /\      /\       | Luke Kelly

    /\/  \/  \/\/  __o  /  \/\    | lpk@kdsi.net or

  /\ / /    \  /   \<,_    /  \   | lpk9403@NebrWesleyan.Edu

/  /  ..... \ ...(_)/-(_)..  .. \ | http://www.kdsi.net

Please don't drive. Petrol stinks!| http://Sleepy.NebrWesleyan.Edu:5001

=========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 16 Feb 1996 18:16:48 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Dan Lauffer <DanLauff@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: fucked up on rugs

 

In a message dated 96-02-16 11:49:24 EST, you write:

 

>Second, Tangier (the literary capital of the 50s, just as Paris was for the

>Lost Generation) at the time was like Amsterdam today--drugs were widely

>a

I've read the Michelle Green 'Dream at the End of the World' and 'Joujoka

Rolling Stone', but the convergence of WSB, m/M Bowles, Ansen & Chester does

not really constitute a "Literary Capital".  Were there others of note?

 

<<I'm with you in Rockland>>

 

Dan Lauffer

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 17 Feb 1996 01:43:23 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Meredith Blackmann <BoomShenka@AOL.COM>

Subject:      beats exhibit

 

just a note:  there's a beat exhibit going on at the whitney museum in NYC.

 i don't know the exact dates it's running.  it's also traveling around the

country.

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 17 Feb 1996 14:09:16 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Carl A Biancucci <carl@WORLD.STD.COM>

Subject:      In THEIR humble opinion

Comments: To: BEAT-L%CUNYVM.BITNET@uunet.uu.net

In-Reply-To:  <Pine.SOL.3.91.960214145630.6916A-100000@sleepy> from "L.Kelly"

              at Feb 14, 96 03:14:15 pm

 

Hello,all...

Just picked myself up a copy of John Clellon Holmes'

'Displaced Person' at a used bookstore in Portland,Maine,and

just HAD to tell someone!

 

With that said,I had a question or two...

 

1.Hemingway-

 Anyone know if he had particular opinions of the beat writers/writings?

 

2.Kerouac-

Did Jack have any opinions on the writings of J.D.Salinger?

 

I truly enjoy the discussions on this list.

 

Best,

 

Carl Biancucci

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 17 Feb 1996 15:45:53 -0500

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Howard Park <Hpark4@AOL.COM>

Subject:      Re: beats exhibit

 

The Beat exhibit at the Whitney in NYC is over now.  It will open in

Minneapolis again in late spring.

 

Howard Park

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 17 Feb 1996 15:56:45 -0600

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Mat Awad <mawad01@MAIL.ORION.ORG>

Subject:      dumb maggie?

 

Just a quick question for all you learned folks. In *Maggie Cassidy*, why

she does not attend Lowell High with Jack. Why not? Pauline says

something to the effect that she isn't smart enough, but I'm not sure

MC2 should be the final authority on this one. Any info?

OK, I lied, two questions. The OED/Freudian thing in *Dr. Sax*. How much

do you think it was intended and how much do you think it was just

happenstance? Just to let my opinion be known, a friend of mine said that

if JK truly meant for it to be that Oedipal it would have taken him 30

years to write. I agree.

Mat

=========================================================================

Date:         Sat, 17 Feb 1996 15:07:49 -0700

Reply-To:     "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender:       "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From:         Paul Clement Czaja <czaja@K12.SSDS.COM>

 

Anyone out there on the winds of the Noosphere know exactly where in

*The Brothers Karamazov* the saintly monk, Father Sosima, tells a

troubled woman: "I'm sorry, all I can say is that active love is a harsh

and dreadful thing, but it is the only answer." and leaves it at that?

I still remember where I was when I read that line (Duane Library on Rose



back