beat list october 1995

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject: Re: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?

I had a similar reaction hearing the beatles Revolution selling Nike, Janis

Joplin's mercedes Benz selling Mercedes Benz.

We ought to get used to it.

Its just too bad Kerouac wasn't alive to have this happen. he could have

used the money.

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 17:59:43 -0700

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From: Cal Godot <godot@WOLFENET.COM>

Subject: Catholicism vs. Buddhism

Do I contradict myself? Very well, I contradict myself:

I am large, I contain multitudes.

--Walt Whitman

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Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 09:03:30 GMT

Reply-To: simon@okotie.demon.co.uk

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Simon Okotie <simon@OKOTIE.DEMON.CO.UK>

Subject: Re: Generational Cycles

In your message dated Thursday 12, October 1995 you wrote :

> My question (if I can ever get to the point) pertains to the mystery behind

> the movement, what exactly sparked so many.. can I say conservative

> minds to look at themselves as a serious social influence?

The Bomb.

Budger of history Brake of time You Bomb

(Gregory Corso)

Simon Okotie

e-mail: simon@okotie.demon.co.uk

tel: +181 830 3604

Flat 3

22 The Avenue

Queen's Park

London

NW6 7YD

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Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 21:38:59 -0400

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From: Dennis Kurlas <RIPKURL@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: kerouac ROMinbus -Reply

I just purchased the Kerouac Box Set collection from Borders. I am new to

the Beat scene also and I suggest these recordings to anyone just getting

started as well as the veterans in the field. It consists of Jack reading

his own poetry and prose. I suggest the purchase of the CD's because you can

find the selections a lot easier. Good luck and enjoy!

=========================================================================

Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 08:18:10 PDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

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From: Tim Bowden <tcbowden@NERDNOSH.ORG>

Organization: Yucca Flats II in Felton, CA

Subject: Re: Generational Cycles

In-Reply-To: <BEAT-L%95101610294605@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Bill Gargan <WXGBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> writes:

> Kerouac may not have held enlightened, modern attitudes towards women

> but I think it's wrong to say that he was closed minded. It seems to me

> that he was incredibly open-minded, open-minded enough, for instance, to

> embrace either conservative or liberal ideas when he thought they were

> right; open-minded enough to accomodate his Catholicism to Buddhism;

> open-minded enough not to condemn beliefs or lifestyles that he did not

> necessarily hold valid.

Ah, the remaking of an American legend.

Kerouac adapted the role of the vagabond from twenties hoboes and Han

Shan and Bohemian legend and he partook of the eastern mystic craze

because everyone else was doing that in those years and he absorbed the

arch-conservative red-baiting slogans from William F Buckley because

this was a rich Irish guy he admired who was loosely associated at times

with his gang at Columbia. He grew weary of the road, he in later life

claimed to be just jiving Snyder with his buddhist role, and he was

quite bleary and silly in explaining even his own sic transit. As he

wrote quite clearly in _Subterraneans_, `...you're an idea man and I'm a

wordslinger...'

He was the best at what he did, which wasn't politics nor philosophy.

Anytime he tried to extend that role, as say a public personality, he

fell flat on his face.

> ...open-minded enough not to condemn beliefs or lifestyles that he did

> not necessarily hold valid.

If _Dharma Bums_ is not a pure indictment of the vapid compromise which

was middle class America in the fifties, such never existed. And in

that same volume there is suggested another paradox from all the holy

mystical deploring of the Blue Eye and packaged soap `they secretly want

to eat in their viney sweetsmelling bathrooms.' Gary Snider, after

ridiculing phony middle American ideals for extended passages, was too

embarrassed to go with the boys into the roadhouse because it was too

dressy and they had spent two days on Matterhorn without benefit of that

packaged soap. His `Achille's heel', as K called it.

> I like to think that Kerouac posessed the quality that F. Scott

> Fitzgerald defined as genius:--the ability to hold two contridictory

> thoughts in the mind at the same time without being paralyzed by them.

No evidence he held even one for very long. It would have been only

borrowed, after all.

.+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=-.

| <tcbowden@clovis.nerdnosh.org> | Clovis is the home of |

| NERDNOSH (tm), the crackling campfire of storytellers. |

`+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+'

=========================================================================

Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 21:29:15 GMT

Reply-To: simon@okotie.demon.co.uk

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Simon Okotie <simon@OKOTIE.DEMON.CO.UK>

Subject: Ginsberg at Royal Albert Hall

Saw Ginsberg at the Royal Albert Hall yesterday at 'Return of the Reforgotten' -

pretentious name for Ginsberg's return to the RAH after 30 years. It was quite

something - Anne Waldman was there as well, as was Paul McCartney, who jammed

with Allen at the end. Was anyone else on the list there?... He plays at Heaven

Beneath the Arches on Thursday.

Oh, we're talking London, by the way.

Simon

e-mail: simon@okotie.demon.co.uk

tel: +181 830 3604

22 The Avenue

Queen's Park

London

NW6 7YD

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 07:35:25 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

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From: Dan Terkla <terkla@TITAN.IWU.EDU>

Subject: Re: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?

In-Reply-To: <951017183652_47058254@mail02.mail.aol.com>

I, too, have seen this abhorrent ad, as well as the print version in

_Time_ magazine. I played Kerouac reading from _OTR_ and _Visions of

Cody_, accompanied by Steve Allen on piano, for my class the day after

finding the thing in _Time_. We discussed the commercialization, the

gruesome commercialization, of dead "celebrities" and concluded that,

indeed, the last car Kerouac would endorse would be an 850 Volvo wagon.

I was sickened to hear Mercedes-Benz using Janis Joplin to sell their

vehicles last year on TV, but somehow this Volvo ad is more disgusting.

Perhaps I'm just too much of a romantic, but this sort of thing turns my

stomach. JK might have worn khakis, but he damn sure wouldn't have put

out $30k+ for a family wagon.

Dan Terkla

Illinois Wesleyan University

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Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 08:33:07 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

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From: CLAY VAUGHAN <CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>

Subject: Re: kerouac ROMinbus -Reply

Without foaming at the mouth over the insights one gains listening to

JK's voice, his attitude toward his work, himself, etc, I think all

would concur in saying GIVE IT A LISTEN. There's more in this set of

recordings than you would imagine, and there is something new to hear

in listening over and over to the intimacy of the man's voice and

depth of expression. Even comments you might think of as throwaway

have something in them worth paying attention to.

And speaking of recordings, has anyone heard and/or have reactions to

Terry Riley's setting of some of Kerouac's MEXICO CITY BLUES? Last

Sunday on NPR (St Paul Sunday), a group of singers directed by Paul

Hilliard, I think, did an a capella version of some of them. And they

are recorded on an album of Terry Riley's called SEVEN PASTORALES.

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 10:03:10 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

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From: CLAY VAUGHAN <CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>

Subject: other recordings, spoken or sung

I'd like to think I keep up with recordings that are out there,

either spoken or set-to-music pieces of the work of Beat writers, but

I'd be interested in knowing what anyone else is listening to, or has

come across out there.

There's that Phillip Glass thing, HYDROGEN JUKEBOX, Steve Swallow's

record of music set to the words of Robt Creeley (I forget the name

of the voice, is it Carla Bley?), the Terry Riley disc, and that old

Mark Murphy jazz thing, BOP FOR KEROUAC (old, and I'm not sure it's

weathered well, I haven't given it a listen in a long while)... and

of course there are those box sets people have been talking about. I'm

of two minds about the BEAT GENERATION one, there is so much

embarrassing nonsense, Time-mag mentality on it, that the real WORK

suffers in its company.

I've not been involved with this server long, and so it may be this

is one discussion that's been hashed and re-hashed ad nauseum. I just

thought I'd throw this out for responses....

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 09:17:19 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

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From: DAVIS ALAN <davisa@MHD1.MOORHEAD.MSUS.EDU>

Subject: Re: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?

In-Reply-To: <951017183652_47058254@mail02.mail.aol.com>

Actually, JK thought about making a Volvo commercial after he got famous,

but, alas, it never happened. It would be a classic, worth tracking

down, if it existed.

Cheers.

On Tue, 17 Oct 1995, Karen L. Becker wrote:

> Has anyone seen the new Volvo commercical with someone (who is that?) reading

> from _On The Road_?

> Really, what has this to do with Volvo? If there is one car made in that

> last 20 years that I cannont picture J.K. driving, it would most decidedly be

> a VOLVO! They're nice and safe, expensive, and totally without soul.

> Tehy're YUPPIE cars, in the words of a local used car dealer.

> Whose idea was this? Am I the only one who cringes everytime s/he sees this?

> DustyJade

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Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 10:26:39 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Stedman, Jim" <JSTEDMAN@NMU.EDU>

Subject: Re: other recordings, spoken or sung

In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Wed, 18 Oct 1995 10:03:10 EST

I agree with Clay about the Beat Generation box set. It is a

curiosity... but seems to take its cue from the Fred McDarrah ("Rent a

beatnik") side of the tracks.

The _Dharma Bums_ (read by Ginsberg) and _On The Road_ (read by

Carradine) are issued as books on tape. There is also some Cassady stuff

put out by Ken Kesey's group... and hearing C's voice adds that other

dimension also talked about regarding Jack's recordings. It's a voice I'

ve heard tell me a thousand crazywonderful stories in a thousand bars.

I am interested in knowing if any of the radio interviews that Jack did

up in Lowell (with the Jarvis') exist on tape. Mark H. -- any lead on an

y of that?

Jim

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 15:27:51 CDT

Reply-To: i12bent@hum.auc.dk

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: bs at AUC <i12bent@HUM.AUC.DK>

Subject: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?

On Tue, 17 Oct 1995, Karen L. Becker wrote:

> Has anyone seen the new Volvo commercical with someone (who is that?) reading

> from _On The Road_?

> Really, what has this to do with Volvo? If there is one car made in that

> last 20 years that I cannont picture J.K. driving, it would most decidedly be

> a VOLVO! They're nice and safe, expensive, and totally without soul.

> Tehy're YUPPIE cars, in the words of a local used car dealer.

The Volvo people seem hell-bent on making fools of themselves. They are

also currently running commercials where they use the old Byrds song

"Ballad of Easy Rider" - imagine Peter Fonda/Dennis Hopper's characters

riding Volvos, anyone....?!?

bs@AUC

Dept. of Languages and Intercultural Studies

Aalborg University, Denmark

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 09:47:32 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

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From: Nick Weir-Williams <nweir-w@NWU.EDU>

Subject: Volvo commercial

Remember that 'they' can't use _On The Road_ without the approval of the

Kerouac Estate. That approval is never automatic - the use has to be

approved. So if the Estate have decided to profit from every suggestion made

to them, no matter how inappropriate, we can expect a lot more of this sort

of thing.

Nick W-W

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Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 10:43:24 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: CLAY VAUGHAN <CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>

Subject: Re: Volvo commercial

The grapevine has it that the Sampas family has not been very ethics-

bound in its decisions as to the sale or profit from JK's name and

work anyway. This comes as no surprise, then, if the estate has

indeed sanctioned the use of anything connected with the author and

his work to be used in any whoring manner whatsoever. Talk about his

turning over in his grave....

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 12:10:13 EST

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From: "Susan V. Pulley" <SVPULLE@TEL1.ACCUSORT.COM>

Organization: Accu-Sort Systems, inc.

Subject: Re: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?

> I was sickened to hear Mercedes-Benz using Janis Joplin to sell

their> vehicles last year on TV,

Ummm - wasn't that Joplin's voice asking for a Mercedes-Benz or did

the Mercedes people "dub" that in? Maybe it's unwise to be so sure

of what other people want or think. Although, I do agree about JK and

the Volvo.

It's a joy to communicate!

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 12:51:10 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Dan Terkla <terkla@TITAN.IWU.EDU>

Subject: Re: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?

In-Reply-To: <7796472663@tel1.accusort.com>

Thanks to Susan Pulley for slapping my virtual wrist re: Janis Joplin and

M-Benz. She did, indeed, sing, "Oh, Lord, won't you buy me a

Mercedes-Benz." Guess I just got carried away with my indignation over

the Kerouac/Volvo ads. If memory serves, which it often doesn't, Janis

did have a Mercedes, one with flowers all over it.

Dan Terkla

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 14:05:09 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Kirsten A. Hirsch"

<Kirsten=A.=Hirsch%Commons%USC@COMNET.USC.VCU.EDU>

Subject: The whole Volvo thing...

Then again, and this is a stretch, there could be some young kid out there

who sees the commercial, likes what he/she hears and goes "Huh,

Kerouac...maybe I should read that book..." I am in no way supporting the

use of ON THE ROAD by Volvo... it's just a thought.

Kirsten

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Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 20:46:51 GMT

Reply-To: Dan_Barth@RedwoodFN.org

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Dan Barth <Dan_Barth@REDWOODFN.ORG>

Organization: Redwood Free-Net

Subject: Re: Generational Cycles

Hey, I missed the first part of this thread. Did it ever actually have

anything to do with generational cycles? That phrase makes me think of

Malcolm Cowley's book, *And I Worked at the Writer's Trade*. He develops his

theories of generational cycles pretty thoroughly in that book.

Dan B.

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Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 16:05:16 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Trip Toner <ElTripo@AOL.COM>

Subject: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?

cs at AUC wrote

> Imagine Peter Fonda/Dennis Hopper's character's riding Volvos...

I can see a Fonda/Hopper Swedish tractor... lotsa trunk space for drugs...

(go Braves)

Trip

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Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 16:53:31 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

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From: Laurie Syrek <HamOnRye5@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?

They make me feel as good as those Gap ads. Hey, doesn't every cool hipster

wear khakis and drive $20K cars?

Laurie

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Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 17:12:34 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Ritter, Chris D" <rittec@UH2297P01.DAYTONOH.ATTGIS.COM>

Subject: Re: car commercials

>Anyway, I am new to this, and have so far just been reading, so I was

wondering

>if anyone ever heard AG's "Holy Soul Jelly Roll?" I have the collection,

and I

I love the poetry.. I'm afraid of the music...

>think it is wonderful. I have only been into the Beats for about a year,

and AG

>is definitely my favorite beat poet. But I was wondering if he, or any

other

>beat has other CD's out. I love to read their poetry written down, but

They're other box sets such as The Beat Generation (b/w cover, great basic

info inside on the artists and the movements), includes a lot of jazz and

interviews

as well as the beats themselves. Also, you'll find a lot of modernized and

original Burroughs out there (Spare Ass Annie is wonderful), and one of my

fav's on the fringe of the Beat movement, S.J. Bernstein.. some of the best

spoken word I've heard in a long time.. there's more.. that's just off the

top

of my head..

..Critter

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 18:42:06 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Chris Davis <PRM95003@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>

Does anyone know of any interesting calls for papers?

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 16:22:01 PDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject: Commercials

William Burroughs is alive and well (maybe) and he "whored" himself to do a

shoe commercial. I think Kerouac would have been happy to take the money

from volvo. Also Henry Rollins has served as a corporate shill for Apple. I

would suggest giving up any romatic and idealistic notions of

non-commercialism. Kerouac didn't give his books away for free. I think that

anything that might make Kerouac more popular is good for us intersted in

reading his works. There are still a lot of unpublised works that I'd like

to see. Anything to increase his profile is going to increase the likelihood

of a publishing company to print more of his books.

Concerning the type of car advertised, ie the volvo. There is no cool or

beat car. The cars they drove in On the Road were as staid and conservative

as a volvo. They didn't go driving around in souped up hotrods. (Anyone

remember the hotwheels Beatnik Bandit?).

I think the Sampas family seems to be doing a good job handling the estate.

The notes at the end of Book of Blues is very good. I think it is rather

nice that the family of Kerouacs first literary confidante (Sammy Sampas who

died in WWII) is running things.

I have to say though that I also had twinges of the type of disgust people

here have related when I heard Revolution by the Beatles selling shoes and

Mercedes benz by Joplin actually used to sell mercedes Benz. I thought it

was the height of irony that a song making fun of wanting a Mecedes Benz was

later used to sell them. But irony is not a bad thing and I think it puts in

perspective all our little notions of social revolution or ohter hollow

ideologies.

Kerouac's presence is appering in a lot of things nowadays. For example I saw

a book in the humor section that had a caricature of Kerouac on the cover.

I'd say get used to this sort of thing. And that it is trivial.

Oh yeah.

=========================================================================

Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 18:34:16 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Cal Godot <godot@WOLFENET.COM>

Subject: Jack's Volvo, Bill's SHoes & Janice's Mercedes

Look: none of you knew Jack Kerouac, so you can't say whether or not he

would drive/sell/promote a Volvo. And who cares anyway? I don't. It doesn't

demean the beauty of "On The Road" to have Jack's image in a Docker's ad.

Who the fuck cares what Madison Avenue does? Face it: Marketing folks will

do damn near anything for a buck. They'd put pictures of headless infants

next to Volvo photos if they thought it would sell a few more cars. (Look

at a business college course list & see if you find any "Marketing Ethics"

classes. If you do, let me know: I want a copy of that syllabus!)

If the devil were real & worked in New York, he'd go into Marketing. He'd

come up with ads where Jesus is driving a Mercedes, listening to a

book-on-tape of "Tristessa" being read by O.J. Simpson. The ad would end

with Jesus stopping the car at a McDonalds, getting out & high-5ing

Shaquille O'Neal. And maybe some Charlie Parker would be playing in the

background.

Lighten up, people: it's all an illusion, remember?

Cal McInvale JAZZ FLAVORED COFFEE

e-mail: godot@wolfenet.com

WWW: http://www.wolfenet.com/~godot/

--------------

What is most appealing about young folks, after all, is the changes,

not the still photographs of finished character but the movie,

the soul in flux. -- Thomas Pynchon

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 08:36:44 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: CLAY VAUGHAN <CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>

Subject: Re: Commercials

There might be something to the Sampas family doing "the right thing"

recently, after all they were instrumental in having the

PORTABLE JK, BOOK OF BLUES, LETTERS, and SF BLUES published this year,

but until this time the track record of the family has not been so

great. Case in point: the treatment of Jan Kerouac (as rightful an

heir as can be found), and also that of JK's nephew.... Also, those

less reliable reports, that if true, tend to indict the position of

the family: that of selling off JK's raincoat, and shoes, for large

amounts of money... could this in fact be the case?

As far as the commercial factor goes, it is inevitable that what CAN

be appropriated WILL be; it's a fact of life, especially in this

country. Yes, get used to it. It doesn't really have anything to

do with ANYTHING those on this listserv see as important

anyway.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 11:18:45 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Dan Terkla <terkla@TITAN.IWU.EDU>

Subject: Re: Commercials

In-Reply-To: <418A3FB6A27@mozart.fpa.odu.edu>

I'm afraid I can't "get used to it" and am seriously concerned with the

growing ignorance and apathy in my students regarding ways in which

advertising affects, even creates, culture. Why should we stop

questioning?: "Are you going to let your emotional life be run by Time

Magazine?" ("America," _Portable Beat Reader_ 76). I try to teach my

students to ask: "America this is the impression I get from looking in

the television set, / America is this correct?" (77) and try to keep

asking myself. Not caring, apathy, is dangerous.

Dan Terkla

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 10:05:10 PDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject: Re: Commercials

Concerning comments made by Dan Terkla,

In my post I did not advocate or imply apathy. I said I thought it was good

for Kerouac's writing to be used in this commercial. The reasons were somewhat

selfish in that I feel raising Kerouac's profile can only lead to more works

by him being made available--something everyone here would proabably appreciate.

Maybe my indifference to selling cars is apathetic, but I see nothing wrong

with not objecting to people trying to sell their wares. I would be offended

if his writing were to be used for selling a particular political or social

agenda whatever the ideology, but cars are fairly innocuous and incredibly

usefull.

Concerning the following that was posted by someone whose name I don't have:

***************************************************************************

There might be something to the Sampas family doing "the right thing" recently,

after all they were instrumental in having the PORTABLE JK, BOOK OF BLUES,

LETTERS, and SF BLUES published this year, but until this time the track record

of the family has not been so great. Case in point: the treatment of Jan Kerouac

(as rightful an heir as can be found), and also that of JK's nephew.... Also,

those less reliable reports, that if true, tend to indict the position of the

family: that of selling off JK's raincoat, and shoes, for large amounts of money

... could this in fact be the case?

As far as the commercial factor goes, it is inevitable that what CAN be

appropriated WILL be; it's a fact of life, especially in this country. Yes, get

used to it. It doesn't really have anything to do with ANYTHING those on this

listserv see as important anyway.

****************************************************************************

I don't see anything wrong in selling the raincoats or shoes. Who cares about

them. If some fools wanted to buy my old shoes or my brother in law's old

shoes I would sell them in a minute.

I agree that it is sad that Jan kerouac was treated so poorly by her father.

But this is her father's fault, no one elses. (Except maybe the court's in

that as I recall one of the provisions of the paternity suit brought by Jan

kerouac's mother was that Jack was to have no contact with her or his

daughter.) She is not his legal heir or even his legal daughter and simply

because people share half their DNA that doesn't mean one has a claim on the

other for this biological relationship. He was never her father. She had

(has?) a step father. I don't know if she was adopted by him or not. She has

her mother's side of the family. I think it was wrong for Kerouac to act this

way to his daughter. He did her wrong and ought to have considered her, but

legally he wasn't her father and they had no real relationship, which is

tragic.

Perhaps his nephew has a stronger claim as he was part of Kerouac's family.

I would think that Jack and his mother after Jack died should have made sure

that he was included. The fault lays with them in this regard. Unless of

course the claims by Jan Kerouac and Paul Kerouac Blake (I think that is his

name) that the Sampas family committed fraud is true.

But none of this really matters. I came to this list because I like kerouac's

works, his ouevre. Before I knew anything about his personal life I liked

his books. In a way all we're doing (maybe just me) is gossiping.

Tim

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 13:15:33 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Kristen VanRiper <pooh@IMAGEEK.YORK.CUNY.EDU>

Subject: Re: Commercials

In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.91.951019111142.28393B-100000@titan.iwu.edu> from

"Dan Terkla" at Oct 19, 95 11:18:45 am

> I'm afraid I can't "get used to it" and am seriously concerned with the

> growing ignorance and apathy in my students regarding ways in which

> advertising affects, even creates, culture. Why should we stop

> questioning?: "Are you going to let your emotional life be run by Time

> Magazine?" ("America," _Portable Beat Reader_ 76). I try to teach my

> students to ask: "America this is the impression I get from looking in

> the television set, / America is this correct?" (77) and try to keep

> asking myself. Not caring, apathy, is dangerous.

> Dan Terkla

regurgitated ads from lost years... lost in the memories of those who

have long ago died...lobotomized.....

some lame slogan that sucks activity from the mind into this void.... this

television land...

is there an independent thought left in my dissillusioned mind?

am i a product of the ads...the books...the ideas....

no...... too long ago i knew... i was aware.... i have not lost that..

not yet...

not ever....

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 12:20:26 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Dan Terkla <terkla@TITAN.IWU.EDU>

Subject: Re: Commercials

In-Reply-To: <CMM.0.90.2.814122310.gallaher@hsc.usc.edu>

RE: Timothy Gallagher's response:

I agree that bringing Kerouac or any of the Beats more into the public

eye is a good thing. I suppose that I still see most things, including

ads for autos, as politically valenced--or at the very least

ideologically informed.

Thanks for the response.

Cheers,

Dan Terkla

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 10:34:00 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>

Subject: Re: Commercials

In-Reply-To: <CMM.0.90.2.814122310.gallaher@hsc.usc.edu> from "Timothy K.

Gallaher" at Oct 19, 95 10:05:10 am

> I don't see anything wrong in selling the raincoats or shoes. Who cares about

> them. If some fools wanted to buy my old shoes or my brother in law's old

> shoes I would sell them in a minute.

Yes, exactly. Look at it this way -- let's say you drop by the house

of a rich friend and he says "check it out -- this is Beethoven's coat,

it's been with my family for 100 years." I would consider this pretty cool.

I think this is just as good as depositing the coat behind a glass case in

some University library.

The Sampas family is sometimes not generous enough. For instance the

new Penguin CD-Rom has a huge (and fascinating) photo gallery with several

pictures of Sampas family members, and not a single shot of Jan. This is way

wrong. However, they do seem to be doing a good job as literary custodians,

and as someone pointed out it is nice that the family of Kerouac's very

important friend Sammy Sampas is in this position.

As for Volvo: to me the most disappointing commercialization of all

time was when Charles Schulz sold out the Peanuts characters to Met Life.

I'm still in trauma over that. The Volvo thing is nowhere near as

shocking.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com

Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html

(the beat literature web site)

Queensboro Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/

(my fantasy folk-rock album)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Should I pursue a path so twisted?

Or should I crawl, defeated and gifted?"

-- Patti Smith

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 15:08:38 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Susan V. Pulley" <SVPULLE@TEL1.ACCUSORT.COM>

Organization: Accu-Sort Systems, inc.

Subject: Re: Commercials

My logic, as faulty as it may be follows:

Joplin's songs, JK's books, even the Peanut's characters will be

around long, long after the commercials are gone. Advertising is

fleeting - it's hardly a speck in time and not worthy of discussion or

disgust. If it's money that offends us, I agree with one of the writer's

on this list - the cd's and books cost plenty - an acclaimed artist today

makes money and (probably) loves doing it. It was an animated

thread though!

It's a joy to communicate!

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 12:32:20 PDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: "Timothy K. Gallaher" <gallaher@HSC.USC.EDU>

Subject: Re: Commercials

Susan Pulley said:

*******************************************************

My logic, as faulty as it may be follows:

Joplin's songs, JK's books, even the Peanut's characters will be

around long, long after the commercials are gone. Advertising is

fleeting - it's hardly a speck in time and not worthy of discussion or

disgust. If it's money that offends us, I agree with one of the writer's

on this list - the cd's and books cost plenty - an acclaimed artist today

makes money and (probably) loves doing it. It was an animated

thread though!

****************************************************************

I don't think your logic is faulty at all. I concur.

Re Sampas slighting of Jan Kerouac on the ROMnibus etc...

I agree. She is slighted and shouldn't be. She is being treated unfairly

albeit legaly in terms of some things, but in terms of the humanity and her

place in all this I must agree that she deserves more. I read Baby Driver

and thought it was very good. I didn't read Train Song. I hope she is able

to write more and that her health is OK. It seems there is bad feelings

between her and the Sampas which explains maybe why they have given her

short shrift. I think though they should go beyond this.

And if you saw she was given short shrift on the ROMnibus that means you have

a copy of it and it exists. Is it worth it? What's it like?

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 16:24:10 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: hollowhed tribe <hollohed@COIL.COM>

Subject: Re: Commercials

>I'm afraid I can't "get used to it" and am seriously concerned with the

>growing ignorance and apathy in my students regarding ways in which

>advertising affects, even creates, culture. Why should we stop

>questioning?: "Are you going to let your emotional life be run by Time

>Magazine?" ("America," _Portable Beat Reader_ 76). I try to teach my

>students to ask: "America this is the impression I get from looking in

>the television set, / America is this correct?" (77) and try to keep

>asking myself. Not caring, apathy, is dangerous.

>Dan Terkla

My dad had the same problem. He taught television at Capitol U (Ohio) for

a year before he ran screaming to LA. Teaching it paid the bills, but his

real problem is that he despises most television, and the critical analysis

of Mad About You did not enrich his life one iota and he doesn't like to

waste time in that respect. He also found the apathy of his students to be

a shock, akin to being asleep and suddenly plunged into an icy...make that

acid...bath. He was used to the type of thinking that I have, my sister

has and my friends have (question everything), and at least for me, it was

directly influenced by him. (Who put the first Burroughs book into my

craving claw? You guessed it.) He would come home shaking with anger and

outrage and proceed to write angst-ridden, rich, multi-textured poems that

I hope he will publish someday. But I want to tell you, as I told him,

(and I'm sure you know this) that there are just enough thinkers and people

who care to continue to put a bug up the collective Corporate ass. I wish

there were more and more, and I'm not ignoring the fact that many of my

peers can't read more than what is contained in a panel of a Comic in one

sitting, but look at it this way: We've got them (The Man, heh heh heh)

scared enough to flail (albeit wrongly) into the frame of mind where they

would _want_ to appeal to anyone who would be into JK's work...I'm not sure

how I feel about all of this. Burroughs, Dennis Hopper, etc. are still

alive and have made money with their spooky pates on the blue screen and I

have little question that JK would do the same if he were alive. But I

like it when artists make money because they then have a little more

breathing room to create. (Not that Dennis Hopper wasn't always an actor,

but he seemed to be a little more...who knows...) I know a friend and

subversive artist who had a song of his used for a VW commercial but didn't

get a cent out of it himself. If some company is going to abandon creative

thought and anal-rape someone else's ready-made vibe, I would at least hope

they'd give them a financial reach-around so they can make something else

that doesn't have a Corporate Logo stamped over it. Just some

thoughts...sorry that they're a little disjointed. Take care all.

sister zuzu

ps: When I see Peter Fonda in a commercial, I'm wiping the tears of dismay

from my cheeks and selling my Biker videos FOR PROFIT. $$$$$

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 16:37:51 EST

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: CLAY VAUGHAN <CLV100U@MOZART.FPA.ODU.EDU>

Subject: Re: RAH reading

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------

Date sent: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 14:30:55 GMT

From: Simon Okotie <simon@okotie.demon.co.uk>

Send reply to: simon@okotie.demon.co.uk

To: CLV100U@mozart.fpa.odu.edu

Subject: Re: RAH reading

Hi Clay

> Simon, I'd be interested in knowing some of AG's remarks during the

> reading, what was said offhand, any particular slant to his

> "playlist"...

He started with a few 'american sentences', one of which was 'I recall Neal's

twenty three year old corpse as I cum in my hand'. Quite striking. The general

feeling that came across was that here was an old and wise man who, looking back

at the sixties, felt that some things hadn't turned out the way he might have

wanted. He mentioned something about renouncing material possesions 'but here I

am in old age with mountains of books and papers'. Almost dead homosexual

genius is what came across.

> also, what would McCartney bring with him to "jam" with AG?

In physical terms, Paul brought his guitar with him to jam with Allen. Allen

read verses of poetry whilst Paul strummed; in between, during the 'bridge' Paul

would play a few rocky riffs. They acted liked old friends.

Hope this is interesting. My memory fails me. Feel free to try and haul some

more stuff from it.

Simon Okotie

e-mail: simon@okotie.demon.co.uk

tel: +181 830 3604

22 The Avenue

Queen's Park

London

NW6 7YD

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 17:00:27 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Laurie Syrek <HamOnRye5@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Commercials

In this crazy world, I find myself trying to justify many things. I shop at

the GAP, I eat Froot Loops for breakfast, and on days when I have school, I

watch Headline News during my luch hour. I have come to expect certain

aspects of my life to be simplified, defined, and explained to me. This is

pathetic, I know. When I see something like the Volvo/Kerouac ad, I'm struck

by how two very separate worlds seem to collide. I'm watching 90210, and in

the middle of all this stupidity, a great piece of literature is being read

on Tv. In my mind, this is wonderful. Sure, it's a bastardization of

Kerouac's work, but it's also a bastardization of TV's normal advertising

campaigns. I am happy to see/hear Kerouac on television. It brings a weird

sense of recognition to my day.

I feel a lot younger than most people on this list, and I must admit that I

struggle with the apathy many of the list-subscribers have described. What

saves me, though, is the fact that I can recognize something like ON THE ROAD

when it is being read on the television. So, I feel a little better.

I'm going to get eaten alive for these comments, but I needed to put this all

in perspective. Many of us feel like scholars and intellectuals, but I can't

be the only one who knows the different plots on Melrose Place.

Laurie

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 16:07:36 -0500

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Nicholas Herren <NPH002@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>

Subject: the t.v. thing

I quote from a movie I recently saw:

"YOU FUCKING PEOPLE"

The only reason any of you give a shit about these t.v. commercials and

money and so on is because you have let yourselves fall into the trap of

watching t.v. None of this would make one bit of difference if everyone

was not so obsessed with the damn thing. You got your priorities jacked

up.

As to the letter saying that people do not read enough and that there are

not enough thinkers I beg to differ. I think people are just hanging

around in the right spots. I know many people who write and who read and

I think the problem is nobody understand them and so they just say there

is no one out there who does read or write, but you are all wrong and you

are all too obsessed with your little t.v.s.

Here is a quote from an author who will never get published because no one

understands nor wants to listen anymore:

>And if you came up to me and was pretty and a girl I

>would buy a rose and a pint of ice cream and kiss you until the

>sun rise came up on a dune. And if you are a guy and came up

>to me and said "Lets get drunk" I would buy you the first shot

>of tequila and keep em rollin. And so dont sit on your ass

>anymore you have read enough. Get yourself up and out and

>find me and if I got a dollar to my friggin name I will show you

>some fun. And I will talk shit and tell you how great Jack was

>and how great Natalie is and I will act like an ass and forget

>your name. But who cares?, because at least you wont be at

>home wasting your life on some fucking t.v. which aint got a shit

>to say back to you. Get out there and howl at the moon. Kiss

>someone. Make someone's night fun. And as for me, I'll be

>waiting. And if I tell you I am gonna do something you better

>damn well be ready because I am sure as shit gonna do it!

> Or you could go to bed and dream. . . and just dream!

__Paupers Death In Amerika__ Jack Mercheant

Who cares anyway? By the end Jack Kerouac was so out of it all

he wanted to do was die because the people treated him like such total

shit anyway. I dont think he ever cared about the money either because

all he wanted to do was LIVE and find some reason for existence or non

existence as he loved so much in Buddhism.

and FUCK volvo too. Jack never drove any car. Now NEAL hell, he would

have driven a YUGO as long as it went over 100 miles per hour.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 18:17:29 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Robert Peltier <rpeltier@MAIL.TRINCOLL.EDU>

Subject: Re: Kerouac: rolling in Grave?

>> I was sickened to hear Mercedes-Benz using Janis Joplin to sell

>their> vehicles last year on TV,

>Ummm - wasn't that Joplin's voice asking for a Mercedes-Benz or did

>the Mercedes people "dub" that in? Maybe it's unwise to be so sure

>of what other people want or think. Although, I do agree about JK and

>the Volvo.

"Ummm" Janis wasn't really asking for a Mercedes Benz. She was being

ironic. We call that satire.

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 15:35:27 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>

Subject: Mercedes-Benz

In-Reply-To: <199510192217.SAA06594@mail.trincoll.edu> from "Robert Peltier"

at Oct 19, 95 06:17:29 pm

With all this talk about Joplin and Mercedes-Benz, isn't anybody

going to mention that the words for the song originated with a poem

written by beat poet Michael McClure?

Jeez, I have to do all the work around here.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com

Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html

(the beat literature web site)

Queensboro Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/

(my fantasy folk-rock album)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Should I pursue a path so twisted?

Or should I crawl, defeated and gifted?"

-- Patti Smith

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 15:42:32 -0700

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Levi Asher <brooklyn@NETCOM.COM>

Subject: Re: Commercials

In-Reply-To: <CMM.0.90.2.814131140.gallaher@hsc.usc.edu> from "Timothy K.

Gallaher" at Oct 19, 95 12:32:20 pm

> And if you saw she was given short shrift on the ROMnibus that means you have

> a copy of it and it exists. Is it worth it? What's it like?

Yes, Penguin sent me a copy -- one of the only perks I get for devoting

my entire waking life to my web site.

As an archive, it's outstanding -- great photos, many never before

seen, many letters, journal entries, manuscripts, etc. As far as

the technology goes it's solid -- only crashed once in two hours on

my PC, which is much better than most CD-Roms. Seems to be based

on Macromedia Director, in case anybody cares.

The full text of Dharma Bums is there, complete with hypertext links.

There's a map of the relationships among SF Beat writers, which is

interesting, though I wouldn't exactly concur that Jack Kerouac and

Allen Ginsberg were "romantically linked." Not without Jack being

very, very drunk, anyway. Nor would I agree that Jack and Neal

were "broken-off" -- I don't think that captures the complexity.

The CD-Rom is definitely worth getting if you're into the subject.

As immersed in Kerouac's works as I am, though, it's hard for me

to see it the way a beginner or intermediate reader might. It

didn't really change or expand my view of K in any particular way,

but then others might find things I didn't notice. So let's hear

some more opinions.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Levi Asher = brooklyn@netcom.com

Literary Kicks: http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/LitKicks.html

(the beat literature web site)

Queensboro Ballads: http://www.levity.com/brooklyn/

(my fantasy folk-rock album)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Should I pursue a path so twisted?

Or should I crawl, defeated and gifted?"

-- Patti Smith

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 20:18:07 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Bill Sallee <Censorus@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Generational Cycles

you have just clumped k. into five categorical box batches 3 of which are

ideological 2 national(istic) AND NONE VERY INTERESTING. if the man is worthy

of discussion.... and not even on his own terms, mind you... don't you think

it behoves us to make an attempt to do so employing , if not meaningful, at

least exciting vital or whole- carcass-made- up- from-brain-blood terms and

categories. I guess the only reason i read this list is in hope of hearing

something i've not before that could plausably be entertained even ...or not.

is that odd?

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 20:18:22 -0400

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Bill Sallee <Censorus@AOL.COM>

Subject: Re: Generational Cycles

you have just clumped k. into five categorical box batches 3 of which are

ideological 2 national(istic) AND NONE VERY INTERESTING. if the man is worthy

of discussion.... and not even on his own terms, mind you... don't you think

it behoves us to make an attempt to do so employing , if not meaningful, at

least exciting vital or whole- carcass-made- up- from-brain-blood terms and

categories. I guess the only reason i read this list is in hope of hearing

something i've not before that could plausably be entertained even or not. is

that odd?

=========================================================================

Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 20:24:09 EDT

Reply-To: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

Sender: "BEAT-L: Beat Generation List" <BEAT-L@CUNYVM.BITNET>

From: Joe <100106.1102@COMPUSERVE.COM>

Subject: JK

in reference to (but not necessarily context of) the following text